Transcripts For CSPAN3 House Hearing On White Supremacy Infi

From the House Oversight committee, this is about two hours. The chair will come to order. Welcome to the oversight subcommittee on civil rights entitled White Supremacists in blue, the infiltration of local Police Departments. Good morning to the chair of the committee, miss maloney, good morning to our Ranking Member, mr. Roy, who is with us, and good morning to the vice chair of the committee, ms ms. Ocasiocortez and our wonderful members. I want to express a special welcome to Rashida Tlaib of michigan. This is our first hearing with our subcommittee and were delighted to have her join us. Welcome. Before we begin today, i want to play a video that will set the stage for the discussion that were about to have. Clerkings, please go ahead and play the video. White supremacy permeates every corner of the institution. Tracks hate and extremist groups, whomever is engaged in those groups, wherever that might lead. We have outed a number of Law Enforcement officers who have connections to White Supremacy, primarily we discovered that through their social media accounts. Check out these social media posts. Its a good day for a chokehold. Or, hope that this piece of ass iswe dealt with by street justi or just plain karma quickly. Hopefully by police gunfire. Or f these muslim you can read it. Bad in every situation, right . Tq but what if i told you all of i those inflammatory words were nt or posted by current or former Police Officers in phoenix, philadelphia and in st. Louis. Theyre just a sampling found by a new study called the plainview project of officers around the country using social media to ft endorse violence against around criminals, defendants, blacks, muslims, women. The study canvassed the postings of more than 3500 current or former officers in eight jurisdictions of various sizes and geographic areas. Sizes o it found posts that appear to endorse violence by officers or members of the public, show bias against minority groups, use gat dehumanizing language calling nn protesters or people of color animal or savages. And the attitude went beyond mere words. A deeper dive into the records of officers here in philly where posts were flagged, found almost onethird of those individuals have been subjects of civil rights and brutality complaints, many ending in settlements or verdicts for the plaintiffs. Officers wanting to ram aperw people with obama bumper stickers, others calling those in the black lives Matter Movement racist pieces of expolicetives. Calling for execution of protesters, all allegedly written by sworn officers. Three wilmington, North Carolina, Police Officers have been fired after a routine audit of a patrol car camera uncovere. What authorities called fter a racist comments ie towardss desc africanamericanse heres cbs. Reporter an internal probe by the Wilmington Police department reveals hatefilled conversations with three veteran officers. Officer kevin piner is heard stt telling corporal s jesse moore that the protests would soon lead to a civil war and that he is ready. He goes on to tell moore that he was going to buy a new assault start rifle and soon we are just going to go out and start slaughtering them expletive nwords. Of says a civil war is needed to wipe them off the expletive map. That will put them back about four or five generations. Later during a phone call with piner, moore refers to a woman e het arrested as the n word a said she needed a bullet in her head right t there. Ef and Donny Williams is the departments new police chief. Ot he fired the officers on his first day. When you talk about killing people and generations of people, that is disturbing. Reporter according to investigators, the officers blame their comments on the stress of todays climate in Law Enforcement. A veteran San Antonio Police officer fired over his treatmenn veer of a criminal trespass suspect last tesummer. Ov that officer caughter on his own bodywornof camera repeated using the n word and other profanities during the arrest of a young black man. For what . For being [ bleep ]. Caught on police body camera, an aurora officer uses a horribly racist slur. Get ther alabama porch monkeys. We again with police chief t craig, a Rookie Police ef cra officer fired over his post on snapchat. Chief craig says officer boston wick will be off the payroll effective tomorrow morning. After he posted this photo to snapchat with the caption, heres the quote, another night toto wrangle up these zoo anima, in reference to detroit residents. If we want to improve this community relations, we would dd all that we can possibly do to root out officers who have a bent for white supremacist ideology. Has had on the problem of white supremacist to violence ic america since the murders of hey george floyd andlo breonna tayl, weve held a separate set of briefings on Police Brutality in communities of color and ram anp violations of the First Amendments as civil rights diotests by the Trump Administration. Today wellrts to t examine how different threats to the wherican people intersect, namely how white supremacist e f organizations, ideas and attitudes have come to infiltrate and target certain domains of Law Enforcement. The bloody trail of violent hars White Supremacy is now splatteredna where across ameri. Charleston, south carolina, where white supremacist dillon roof worsh slaughtered nine africanamerican parishioners ai church. Charlottesville, virginia, whern hundreds of neonazi and klansmen rioted and wounded several of people and killed heather highier in a terrible nv attack by automobile. Pittsburgh, pennsylvania, where a neonazi killed 11 people andl wounded 6 atif the tree of life synagogue as they worshipped. Poway, california,an antisemitic rampage. El paso, texas, where a white supremacist amped up killed 23 t people and wounded 23 others in a rampage at a walmart. According to the antidefamation league, 75 of all extremistrelated murders between to2009 t and 2018 werer committed by 2 rightwing extremists. The center for strategic studies, which analyzed over 904 politically motivated attacks in the u. S. Since 19 the 4 found that there have been nearly six times as many victims of violence from whitewing groups as others. In 2020 they found over 90 of a attacks weres conducted by 90 p rightwing groups. Tacks these are the facts. Ent wh like covid19, this virus of violent White Supremacy is spreading. The Southern Poverty Law Center documented a record 30 increase in the number of hate groups dc nationwide over the last severae years. And hatein hate crimes are als trending up. But as with covid19, the Trump Administration has decided to mislead the public by by sewnplaying the problem. The department of Homeland Security whistleblower stated Ken Cuccinelli told him to specifically modify draft language on White Supremacy to e make, spro inclu quote, the thr less severe and to include information on the prominence of violent leftwing groups. The spread of violent White Supremacy is a threat to inence everyone but disproportionately black and brown communities. But and it is also a threat and purposefully underestimating thisis problem is a threat to first responders. In this case, was the premises of killed 51 Police Officers since 199083 percent of shootouts between police 83 of shootouts between police and extremists involve rightwing extremists with White Supremacists being responsible for more than half of those. The unredablgted memo we released today from the fbi states that, quote, White Supremacists presence among Law Enforcement personnel is a concern due to access they may have to restricted areas vulnerable to sabotage and to elected officials or protected persons that they could see as targets for violence. White supremacy is a deadly threat to the safety of Law Enforcement officers as well as to Public Safety generally. In may far right extremists killed David Patrick underwood, a Law Enforcement officers. One of the boys charged in underwoods death is a former air force sergeant, also suspected in the murder of a santa cruz sheriff earlier this year. In february a White Supremacists killed officer niko rear in alabama. In 2006 the fbi released an intelligence assessment warning of, quote, White Supremacists infiltration of Law Enforcement. The fbi identified two distinct problems. First, the fbi noted the problem of white supremacist groups infiltrating Law Enforcement. Weve seen a lot of evidence of that in the 14 years since the fbis assessment as officers across the country have been dismissed for active membership in the kkk and other similar groups. We will hear testimony Law Enforcement officers who have no formal affiliation with racist groups who sympathize with their racist ideology. This, too, has been in plain view in this period of resurgent racist violence across america. In 2019 a team of investigative journalists published the plainview project which collected over 5,000 postings displaying white supremacist, xenophozeexenophobi xenophobic, and my vent facebook material from Police Officers in eight different cities. We invited the fbi to come today. The bureau refused to come claiming it has nothing to say because they have no evidence that this is a widespread problem demanding the fbis attention. Whats more, theyve attempted to disavow their own 2006 intelligence assessment which has every sign of being an authentic document. They did provide us an unredacted version of that 2006 assessment, which im releasing today so the public can better understand how the fbi understood this threat and judged its subsequent actions or lack thereof accordingly. The redacted passages include warnings for the american people. The fbi warned that, quote, white supremacist infiltration of Law Enforcement can result in abuses of authority and passive tolerance of racismism within communities served. The fbi also cautioned that Police Officers who are hostile to civil rights might, quote, volunteer their professional resources to the white supremacist causes with which they sympathize. These are chilling conclusions. But rather than clearly spell out this threat for the american people, the fbi has suppressed them from public view for 14 years. For the first time we can now see that the fbi believed internally that white supremacist infiltration of Law Enforcement departments was a serious problem. A source of potential abuse of power and authority the street and a source of potential violence against the civilian population. This summer, as the country was shocked to watch videos depicting the brutal and vindictive treatment, other video as friends and as allies. In salem, oregon, police gave a polite warning to a group of armed white men asking them them to discreetly stay inside the buildings after curfew so it didnt seem like police were playing favorites. In Albuquerque Police were caught on a Police Scanner as armed friendly. In kenosha, wisconsin, officers pushed protesters towards a group of armed white civilians. Police offered water to those armed men. One of whom got away despite walking up to police with his hands in the air, the murder weapon strapped to his chest while onlookers identified him as the killer of two innocent americans. The social contract depends on fair and neutral enforcement of the laws to protect the whole citizenry against criminal violence and state violence. We must work to disentangle the police power of the state and groups and individuals that subscribe to violent white supremacist ideology and seek to inflict harm on africanamericans, asianamericans, latinos, jewish americans, lgbtq americans and anyone who stands in the way of a race war and the civil war that the extreme right is calling for in america today. If local or state Law Enforcement were being infiltrated by isis or by al qaeda or any other terrorist group, we would consider it an immediate Public Safety emergency. Infiltration by violent White Supremacy is no less of a threat and no less urgent. To confront it effectively, we must understand it. That is the purpose of todays hearing. So, i now would like to recognize the distinguished Ranking Member, mr. Roy, of texas, for an opening statement. I went a bit over my time, mr. Roy, so please feel fry to take the equal amount of time you need. Well, i appreciate the chairman. The chairman is always gracious to make sure we have equal time and to handle that with respect. I appreciate that. Good to see you from afar. As you know, this hearing is the fourth in our series on White Supremacy. Weve had a number of good exchanges and dived into some of the facts over the course of previous three hearings. And i certainly think its important for us to do so. As you remember, i was particularly moved and wanted to understand the situation in charlottesville. As a university of virginia graduate, obviously that hit close to home, and talking to a mother who lost her daughter, sitting there in the downtown mall in charlottesville where i used to go as a student and seeing this horrid series of events unfold, it was important for us to have that conversation. And i think its important for us to have this conversation. I would note and the chairman knows. Ive been asking repeatedly for the last year for us to have a hearing, for example, on Human Trafficking. Theres 40 Million People around the world suffering from Human Trafficking. Some 20,000 in the United Nations of where weve had actual Law Enforcement engagement with them, which is a fraction of what we know is actually occurring in the United States. Estimates of upwards of 300,000 to 400,000. I think we should find time in our schedules for hearings on that. As the chairman well knows, its an important issue. If you think about 300,000, 400,000 people to be the victims of Human Trafficking in the United States, we all look at that. And, you know, look, i think we have to ask the question, you know, why is this now an important hearing . I dont question the motives of the chairman, but i would have to acknowledge that it is fairly facially obvious over the last x number of months that my democratic colleagues really want to perpetrate a narrative that american Law Enforcement is either systemically racist or composed of White Supremacists. And i just categorically reject that characterization of the almost 800,000 Law Enforcement personnel who are standing up on the thin blue line for each and every one of us every day. As a former federal prosecutor i firmly believe we can root out crime wherever we find it. We root it out. We root out hate. We root out racism wherever we find it. That is our job to go pursue it. I wholly agree with that. But it is a dangerous path, it is a dangerous path that my democratic colleagues are pursuing in defining our Law Enforcement personnel as systemically racist. Thats whats happening. Thats what these things are doing. Thats what this focus is doing. And, by the way, it wouldnt matter if this hearing was just focused that this hearing is just focused on Law Enforcement. My democratic colleagues have made it abundantly clear that the United States of america is in and of itself systemically racist. Thats the position of the modern democratic party. That our nation is systemically racist. And that, to me, is fundamentally at odds with what this nation actually has stood for. And what this nation actually has done. I come from a family with a history in Law Enforcement. My great, great grandfather was a texas ranger in the county in which im sitting right now in the 1870s. And travis county, hayes county, blanco county. And im proud of that. My grandfather was the chief of police of a small west texas town, in sweetwater, texas. He died of cancer when my dad was 7. My dad barely knew him because he had just come back from the war. By all accounts, by everybody i talked to, my grandfather was a good and faithful House Oversight<\/a> committee, this is about two hours. The chair will come to order. Welcome to the oversight subcommittee on civil rights entitled White Supremacists<\/a> in blue, the infiltration of local Police Department<\/a>s. Good morning to the chair of the committee, miss maloney, good morning to our Ranking Member<\/a>, mr. Roy, who is with us, and good morning to the vice chair of the committee, ms ms. Ocasiocortez and our wonderful members. I want to express a special welcome to Rashida Tlaib<\/a> of michigan. This is our first hearing with our subcommittee and were delighted to have her join us. Welcome. Before we begin today, i want to play a video that will set the stage for the discussion that were about to have. Clerkings, please go ahead and play the video. White supremacy permeates every corner of the institution. Tracks hate and extremist groups, whomever is engaged in those groups, wherever that might lead. We have outed a number of Law Enforcement<\/a> officers who have connections to White Supremacy<\/a>, primarily we discovered that through their social media accounts. Check out these social media posts. Its a good day for a chokehold. Or, hope that this piece of ass iswe dealt with by street justi or just plain karma quickly. Hopefully by police gunfire. Or f these muslim you can read it. Bad in every situation, right . Tq but what if i told you all of i those inflammatory words were nt or posted by current or former Police Officers<\/a> in phoenix, philadelphia and in st. Louis. Theyre just a sampling found by a new study called the plainview project of officers around the country using social media to ft endorse violence against around criminals, defendants, blacks, muslims, women. The study canvassed the postings of more than 3500 current or former officers in eight jurisdictions of various sizes and geographic areas. Sizes o it found posts that appear to endorse violence by officers or members of the public, show bias against minority groups, use gat dehumanizing language calling nn protesters or people of color animal or savages. And the attitude went beyond mere words. A deeper dive into the records of officers here in philly where posts were flagged, found almost onethird of those individuals have been subjects of civil rights and brutality complaints, many ending in settlements or verdicts for the plaintiffs. Officers wanting to ram aperw people with obama bumper stickers, others calling those in the black lives Matter Movement<\/a> racist pieces of expolicetives. Calling for execution of protesters, all allegedly written by sworn officers. Three wilmington, North Carolina<\/a>, Police Officers<\/a> have been fired after a routine audit of a patrol car camera uncovere. What authorities called fter a racist comments ie towardss desc africanamericanse heres cbs. Reporter an internal probe by the Wilmington Police<\/a> department reveals hatefilled conversations with three veteran officers. Officer kevin piner is heard stt telling corporal s jesse moore that the protests would soon lead to a civil war and that he is ready. He goes on to tell moore that he was going to buy a new assault start rifle and soon we are just going to go out and start slaughtering them expletive nwords. Of says a civil war is needed to wipe them off the expletive map. That will put them back about four or five generations. Later during a phone call with piner, moore refers to a woman e het arrested as the n word a said she needed a bullet in her head right t there. Ef and Donny Williams<\/a> is the departments new police chief. Ot he fired the officers on his first day. When you talk about killing people and generations of people, that is disturbing. Reporter according to investigators, the officers blame their comments on the stress of todays climate in Law Enforcement<\/a>. A veteran San Antonio Police<\/a> officer fired over his treatmenn veer of a criminal trespass suspect last tesummer. Ov that officer caughter on his own bodywornof camera repeated using the n word and other profanities during the arrest of a young black man. For what . For being [ bleep ]. Caught on police body camera, an aurora officer uses a horribly racist slur. Get ther alabama porch monkeys. We again with police chief t craig, a Rookie Police<\/a> ef cra officer fired over his post on snapchat. Chief craig says officer boston wick will be off the payroll effective tomorrow morning. After he posted this photo to snapchat with the caption, heres the quote, another night toto wrangle up these zoo anima, in reference to detroit residents. If we want to improve this community relations, we would dd all that we can possibly do to root out officers who have a bent for white supremacist ideology. Has had on the problem of white supremacist to violence ic america since the murders of hey george floyd andlo breonna tayl, weve held a separate set of briefings on Police Brutality<\/a> in communities of color and ram anp violations of the First Amendment<\/a>s as civil rights diotests by the Trump Administration<\/a>. Today wellrts to t examine how different threats to the wherican people intersect, namely how white supremacist e f organizations, ideas and attitudes have come to infiltrate and target certain domains of Law Enforcement<\/a>. The bloody trail of violent hars White Supremacy<\/a> is now splatteredna where across ameri. Charleston, south carolina, where white supremacist dillon roof worsh slaughtered nine africanamerican parishioners ai church. Charlottesville, virginia, whern hundreds of neonazi and klansmen rioted and wounded several of people and killed heather highier in a terrible nv attack by automobile. Pittsburgh, pennsylvania, where a neonazi killed 11 people andl wounded 6 atif the tree of life synagogue as they worshipped. Poway, california,an antisemitic rampage. El paso, texas, where a white supremacist amped up killed 23 t people and wounded 23 others in a rampage at a walmart. According to the antidefamation league, 75 of all extremistrelated murders between to2009 t and 2018 werer committed by 2 rightwing extremists. The center for strategic studies, which analyzed over 904 politically motivated attacks in the u. S. Since 19 the 4 found that there have been nearly six times as many victims of violence from whitewing groups as others. In 2020 they found over 90 of a attacks weres conducted by 90 p rightwing groups. Tacks these are the facts. Ent wh like covid19, this virus of violent White Supremacy<\/a> is spreading. The Southern Poverty Law Center<\/a> documented a record 30 increase in the number of hate groups dc nationwide over the last severae years. And hatein hate crimes are als trending up. But as with covid19, the Trump Administration<\/a> has decided to mislead the public by by sewnplaying the problem. The department of Homeland Security<\/a> whistleblower stated Ken Cuccinelli<\/a> told him to specifically modify draft language on White Supremacy<\/a> to e make, spro inclu quote, the thr less severe and to include information on the prominence of violent leftwing groups. The spread of violent White Supremacy<\/a> is a threat to inence everyone but disproportionately black and brown communities. But and it is also a threat and purposefully underestimating thisis problem is a threat to first responders. In this case, was the premises of killed 51 Police Officers<\/a> since 199083 percent of shootouts between police 83 of shootouts between police and extremists involve rightwing extremists with White Supremacists<\/a> being responsible for more than half of those. The unredablgted memo we released today from the fbi states that, quote, White Supremacists<\/a> presence among Law Enforcement<\/a> personnel is a concern due to access they may have to restricted areas vulnerable to sabotage and to elected officials or protected persons that they could see as targets for violence. White supremacy is a deadly threat to the safety of Law Enforcement<\/a> officers as well as to Public Safety<\/a> generally. In may far right extremists killed David Patrick<\/a> underwood, a Law Enforcement<\/a> officers. One of the boys charged in underwoods death is a former air force sergeant, also suspected in the murder of a santa cruz sheriff earlier this year. In february a White Supremacists<\/a> killed officer niko rear in alabama. In 2006 the fbi released an intelligence assessment warning of, quote, White Supremacists<\/a> infiltration of Law Enforcement<\/a>. The fbi identified two distinct problems. First, the fbi noted the problem of white supremacist groups infiltrating Law Enforcement<\/a>. Weve seen a lot of evidence of that in the 14 years since the fbis assessment as officers across the country have been dismissed for active membership in the kkk and other similar groups. We will hear testimony Law Enforcement<\/a> officers who have no formal affiliation with racist groups who sympathize with their racist ideology. This, too, has been in plain view in this period of resurgent racist violence across america. In 2019 a team of investigative journalists published the plainview project which collected over 5,000 postings displaying white supremacist, xenophozeexenophobi xenophobic, and my vent facebook material from Police Officers<\/a> in eight different cities. We invited the fbi to come today. The bureau refused to come claiming it has nothing to say because they have no evidence that this is a widespread problem demanding the fbis attention. Whats more, theyve attempted to disavow their own 2006 intelligence assessment which has every sign of being an authentic document. They did provide us an unredacted version of that 2006 assessment, which im releasing today so the public can better understand how the fbi understood this threat and judged its subsequent actions or lack thereof accordingly. The redacted passages include warnings for the american people. The fbi warned that, quote, white supremacist infiltration of Law Enforcement<\/a> can result in abuses of authority and passive tolerance of racismism within communities served. The fbi also cautioned that Police Officers<\/a> who are hostile to civil rights might, quote, volunteer their professional resources to the white supremacist causes with which they sympathize. These are chilling conclusions. But rather than clearly spell out this threat for the american people, the fbi has suppressed them from public view for 14 years. For the first time we can now see that the fbi believed internally that white supremacist infiltration of Law Enforcement<\/a> departments was a serious problem. A source of potential abuse of power and authority the street and a source of potential violence against the civilian population. This summer, as the country was shocked to watch videos depicting the brutal and vindictive treatment, other video as friends and as allies. In salem, oregon, police gave a polite warning to a group of armed white men asking them them to discreetly stay inside the buildings after curfew so it didnt seem like police were playing favorites. In Albuquerque Police<\/a> were caught on a Police Scanner<\/a> as armed friendly. In kenosha, wisconsin, officers pushed protesters towards a group of armed white civilians. Police offered water to those armed men. One of whom got away despite walking up to police with his hands in the air, the murder weapon strapped to his chest while onlookers identified him as the killer of two innocent americans. The social contract depends on fair and neutral enforcement of the laws to protect the whole citizenry against criminal violence and state violence. We must work to disentangle the police power of the state and groups and individuals that subscribe to violent white supremacist ideology and seek to inflict harm on africanamericans, asianamericans, latinos, jewish americans, lgbtq americans and anyone who stands in the way of a race war and the civil war that the extreme right is calling for in america today. If local or state Law Enforcement<\/a> were being infiltrated by isis or by al qaeda or any other terrorist group, we would consider it an immediate Public Safety<\/a> emergency. Infiltration by violent White Supremacy<\/a> is no less of a threat and no less urgent. To confront it effectively, we must understand it. That is the purpose of todays hearing. So, i now would like to recognize the distinguished Ranking Member<\/a>, mr. Roy, of texas, for an opening statement. I went a bit over my time, mr. Roy, so please feel fry to take the equal amount of time you need. Well, i appreciate the chairman. The chairman is always gracious to make sure we have equal time and to handle that with respect. I appreciate that. Good to see you from afar. As you know, this hearing is the fourth in our series on White Supremacy<\/a>. Weve had a number of good exchanges and dived into some of the facts over the course of previous three hearings. And i certainly think its important for us to do so. As you remember, i was particularly moved and wanted to understand the situation in charlottesville. As a university of virginia graduate, obviously that hit close to home, and talking to a mother who lost her daughter, sitting there in the downtown mall in charlottesville where i used to go as a student and seeing this horrid series of events unfold, it was important for us to have that conversation. And i think its important for us to have this conversation. I would note and the chairman knows. Ive been asking repeatedly for the last year for us to have a hearing, for example, on Human Trafficking<\/a>. Theres 40 Million People<\/a> around the world suffering from Human Trafficking<\/a>. Some 20,000 in the United Nations<\/a> of where weve had actual Law Enforcement<\/a> engagement with them, which is a fraction of what we know is actually occurring in the United States<\/a>. Estimates of upwards of 300,000 to 400,000. I think we should find time in our schedules for hearings on that. As the chairman well knows, its an important issue. If you think about 300,000, 400,000 people to be the victims of Human Trafficking<\/a> in the United States<\/a>, we all look at that. And, you know, look, i think we have to ask the question, you know, why is this now an important hearing . I dont question the motives of the chairman, but i would have to acknowledge that it is fairly facially obvious over the last x number of months that my democratic colleagues really want to perpetrate a narrative that american Law Enforcement<\/a> is either systemically racist or composed of White Supremacists<\/a>. And i just categorically reject that characterization of the almost 800,000 Law Enforcement<\/a> personnel who are standing up on the thin blue line for each and every one of us every day. As a former federal prosecutor i firmly believe we can root out crime wherever we find it. We root it out. We root out hate. We root out racism wherever we find it. That is our job to go pursue it. I wholly agree with that. But it is a dangerous path, it is a dangerous path that my democratic colleagues are pursuing in defining our Law Enforcement<\/a> personnel as systemically racist. Thats whats happening. Thats what these things are doing. Thats what this focus is doing. And, by the way, it wouldnt matter if this hearing was just focused that this hearing is just focused on Law Enforcement<\/a>. My democratic colleagues have made it abundantly clear that the United States<\/a> of america is in and of itself systemically racist. Thats the position of the modern democratic party. That our nation is systemically racist. And that, to me, is fundamentally at odds with what this nation actually has stood for. And what this nation actually has done. I come from a family with a history in Law Enforcement<\/a>. My great, great grandfather was a texas ranger in the county in which im sitting right now in the 1870s. And travis county, hayes county, blanco county. And im proud of that. My grandfather was the chief of police of a small west texas town, in sweetwater, texas. He died of cancer when my dad was 7. My dad barely knew him because he had just come back from the war. By all accounts, by everybody i talked to, my grandfather was a good and faithful Public Servant<\/a> who is not racist in any way. Everything i understand from my family, my grandmother, my grandmother was a single mom in west texas, the first woman county clerk elected in texas when my grandfather died of cancer. And i stand by my grandfather. I stand by all the Law Enforcement<\/a> officers i worked with when i was the assistant United States<\/a> attorney working in the u. S. Attorneys office in eastern texas. All the fine Law Enforcement<\/a> officers who worked for me of varying races when i was the First Assistant<\/a> attorney general. When i was the First Assistant<\/a> attorney general for ken paxton here in texas, we had 40 employees. I will wholly acknowledge, irrespective of race, if any of them are doing anything crazy, insane, mean, hateful, racist, illegal at any given moment, 1 of that 4,100, thats 41 people. And my job as attorney general is to go track these things down. Have internal investigations. Go look and figure out whats happening. I wholeheartedly embrace and believe in that, but when we the institution of Congress Make<\/a> blanket statements, using viral videos to define a classic human being standing on the wall for us every day, im troubled by that. Theres significant amount of evidence out there that suggests there is not structural bias in the criminal Justice System<\/a> regarding arrests, prosecutions or sentencing. Crime and suspect behavior not race determine most police actions. There are 70 million interactions, roughly, obviously these are estimates, 70 million interactions between Law Enforcement<\/a> and civilians every year. Now, if a million of those are, you know, troubling, problematic, for varying different reasons, one of which might be race, one of which almost certainly is race, then we should root that out. But when you categorically define 70 Million Police<\/a> interactions with 700,000 Law Enforcement<\/a> personnel as systemically racist, then youre undermining our entire rule of law, right . I mean, were seeing this unfold right now in front of us. You know, the past few months have brought police into the limelight and sparked a resurgence of antiLaw Enforcement<\/a> rhetoric from the left and many in the media. Whats been the result . More violence in our streets. More Police Officers<\/a> killed in the line of duty. More americans, many of them in low income communities, are suffering because their communities are crumbling at the hands of lawless mobs. They cant use the bus stop to take them across to town get to work because somebody smashed it to pieces. They cant get a loaf of bread from their corner store because looters ransacked it. The owner of a shop thats been in their family for years is now gone. 45 of blackowned businesses have been decimated since the beginning of both the virus and all the unrest on our streets. There are real consequences to whats going on on our streets. In many cases, they cannot call the police for help. Just yesterday there was a thing in austin where somebody was running through the whole foods in downtown austin, where everybodys getting their lattes and buying arugula for their salads. Someone is running through and they call the police. There was no police to get there. Why . Because the Austin City Council<\/a> in its leftist wisdom has slashed the Police Department<\/a> by a third. Data shows when police backlash following these narratives, Law Enforcement<\/a> tends to be less aggressive in pursuing perpetrators resulting in an increase in crime and homicide, of which victims include all races. In the two weeks following the death of mr. Floyd, more than 700 Police Officers<\/a> were injured. Many lives have been lost. Hundreds of millions of damage to private business and public property have been made. Across 20 major city, the murder rate is 37 higher than it was at the end of may. The murder rate. These are people. These are murders. And what about the Police Officer<\/a> shootings with the intent to kill that we recently saw in los angeles and louisville in the name of defending social justice . Two officers killed in louisville. At least one of whom was black. Defending the police creating broad false narratives about Law Enforcement<\/a> and encouraging violence in our streets in the name of politics is harming our communities. You cant defund the police. For example, for total homicides year over year for the 15 largest u. S. Cities, austin, the district i represent, ranks first at 64 increase. Just a few months ago the city of austin, as i said before, defunded onethird of the Police Department<\/a>. More examples from austin. 43 increase in murders, 17 in aggravated assault, 24 increase in arson, 5 increase in vandalism, notably due to their defunding. They canceled the 144th austin Police Department<\/a> cadet class. The most diverse cadet class for the department in its history, half of the graduates were minorities. They canceled it. Its gone. All those people who wanted to serve in Law Enforcement<\/a>, who wanted to serve in the community, who wanted to help protect their communities, again, over half minorities. That class is gone. At least 46 Police Officers<\/a> have been killed in the line of duty this year. I read all of their names on the floor of the house of representatives last week. Where in the hell is the nba wearing their name on the back much their jerseys . Where in the hell is the outrage for the Law Enforcement<\/a> officers who lost their lives in the line of duty, standing up on that thin blue line for us . Katherine mary booin who was dragged against a car and pinned against a tree, dead. Police officer brian brown killed in a vehicular assault, gone. Sergeant damon who was ambushed, shot and killed, gone. 24yearold officer breeann who was shot in open fire responding to domestic disturbance, gone. Just to name a few. We have over 50 of felonious officers killed in the line of duty with three remaining months left this year. Cities around the nation are defunding their Police Department<\/a>s. This committee, in my opinion, is giving a platform to harmful narratives precluding the idea of safe streets. Safety and security should be noning inab n nonnegotiable. I understand what were doing in this conversation were having. These are important conversations. But we ought to be mindle of the 800,000 men and women who are going to suit up today, to stand on that line for us, and im always entertained by those who are out on the streets, and something happens and theres violence because theyre out at some protest, and the next thing you know, they go, where are the police . Thats happened to members of this body. Were looking around, where are the police . Well, i guarantee you well be saying, where are the police if we continue to assault them and blanketly condemn them as racists as an institution of racism, as opposed to doing our lawful duties as members of congress or Law Enforcement<\/a> officers to root out every single crime, every single action, one case at a time. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Mr. Roy, thank you very much for your thoughtful remarks. And i hope ill get a chance to respond to some of the things a bit later. One thing i do want to say right now is there is nothing in anything that i said and theres nothing about this hearing which describes all of Law Enforcement<\/a> as racist or racist threat. On the contrary, my whole opening was about how violent White Supremacy<\/a> is a threat to the public interest, including to Law Enforcement<\/a> itself. But i think well be able to discuss this more with the witnesses as they come through. And i thank you for your remarks. With that im going to recognize the chair of the oversight committee, miss maloney, for her opening statement. Please unmute, if you would. Were not hearing miss maloney. Unmute. Call them and tell them we have technical problems. No, weve got you now, madame chair. Weve got you. Okay. First of all, i want to start by thanking my good friend, chairman raskin, for convening this important and convening this important and timely hearing. The subcommittee has held three hearings focused on violent White Supremacy<\/a>, and chairman raskins leadership on this issue has been inspiring. As chairman raskin said, racism is not new to america. It is particularly not new to black americans. Since our nations found iing, racism has been used to treat black americans as second class citizens, or no class citizens. We must never forget that policing in america started with slave patrols. Many slave patrols evolved into Police Department<\/a>s that, for deca decades, have been used to ensure black americans could not exercise their full rights as citizens. We are dealing with that legacy today. Many Police Department<\/a>s face the continue continued infiltration of White Supremacists<\/a> into their ranks. As the fbi found, and i quote, malicious white supremacist extremists often have identified active links to Law Enforcement<\/a> officers, end quote. This year, we have seen millions of people march in the streets. They are asking for the end of statesanctioned killings and calling for the dismantling of systemic injustice. Their mission is straightforward. They are asking for the bare minimum, that our nation be a place where the lives and deaths of black americans matter. But those protests have been met with violence and, in many instances, policesanctioned violence by white extremist groups. This hearing is not about good officers versus bad officers. This hearing is about making sure we, as a nation, acknowledge that White Supremacy<\/a> has no place in any Police Department<\/a>. The idiom does not end with, quote, a few bad apples. The saying is a few bad apples spoil the bunch. We cannot let White Supremacy<\/a> continue to spoil the bunch. Instead, we should all condemn the behavior that chairman raskin described. I am honored to attend this hearing. It is shameful, absolutely shameful that the fbi chose to ignore the committees request to attend and instead disavowed their own terrifying findings about the pervasiveness of White Supremacy<\/a> in Police Department<\/a>s. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about their extremely important work, and i hope we remember the wise words of chairman cummings, that we are better than this, end quote. And i yield back. Madam chair, thank you very much. I want to introduce our witnesses. Our first witness today will be michael german, a fellow at the Brennan Center<\/a> for justice. Then johnson, associate professor of law at Georgetown University<\/a> law school, a few blocks from the capitol. Well hear from frank mink, author and activist and mark napier, sheriff of pima county, arizona, and finally well hear from heather taylor, the president of the Ethical Society<\/a> of police in st. Louis. The witnesses will now please unmute so i can swear you in. Please, all of you, raise your right hands if you would. Do you swear or affirm the testimony youre about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god . I do. I do. I do. Thank you. Let the record show that the witnesses have all answered in the affirmative. Thank you. Without objection, your complete written statements will be made part of the record. You are given five minutes within which to give your oral presentation and then all the distinguished members of the committee who have arrived, including ms. Talib, who just joined, will ask you questions. With that, mr. German, you are now recognized for five minutes. Members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify today about White Supremacists<\/a> and far right activity in the Police Department<\/a>. When i was an fbi investigator preparing to go undercover in Neo Nazi Group<\/a>, i would have to strengthen my undercover identity to withstand Law Enforcement<\/a>s scrutiny. I worked closely in that operation and in the later one investigating farright militias in Washington State<\/a> with officers from several different federal and local Law Enforcement<\/a> agencies who typically had more experience than i did. None suggested this was an unreasonable concern. So i was not surprised when the fbi released its 2006 intelligence assessment entitled white supremacist infiltration of Law Enforcement<\/a>. It alerted them to these groups and self initiated infiltration by Law Enforcement<\/a> personnel sympathetic to White Supremacists<\/a> as it was the same warning i had had a decade earlier. It makes the case more directly. It warns agents fbi domestic terror investigations focused on militia extremists, white supremacist extremists and sovereign extremists often have active links with Law Enforcement<\/a> officers. When representative William Lacy Clay<\/a> asked counterterrorism chief mcgary whether the main concern of white sprems infiltration of Law Enforcement<\/a> since the publication of 2006 assessment at a june 2019 hearing of this subcommittee, mr. Mcgarrity had indicated he had not read it. Asked more generally about this infiltration, mcgarrity said he would be suspect of white supremacist Police Officers<\/a> but their ideology was a First Amendment<\/a> protected right. 2006 assessment addresses this concern, however, by summarizing Supreme Court<\/a> precedent on the issue. Quote, although the First Amendment<\/a> freedom of Association Provision<\/a> protects an individuals white to join white supremacist groups for the purpose of lawful activity, the government can limit Employment Opportunities<\/a> of Group Members<\/a> who hold sensitive Public Sector<\/a> jobs, including jobs within Law Enforcement<\/a> when their membership would interfere with their duties, unquote. More importantly, the fbis 2015 counterterrorism policy, which mcgarrity was responsible for executing, indicates not just that members of Law Enforcement<\/a> might hold white supremacist views but that domestic terrorism investigations have often identified, quote, active links, unquote, between the subjects of these investigations and Law Enforcement<\/a> officials. Its proposed remedy is inadequate, however, simply instructing agents to protect their investigations by using the watch list so that Police Officer<\/a> s could not ascertain whether they were under fbi scrutiny. Of course, one doesnt need access to secret fbi terrorism investigations to find evidence of explicit racism within Law Enforcement<\/a>. Since 2000, Law Enforcement<\/a> officials with connections to white supremacist groups or farright militant activities have been exposed in more than a dozen states around the country. Research organizations have uncovered hundreds of federal, state and local Law Enforcement<\/a> officials participating in racist and sexist social media activity, which says that overbias is too common. It poses a serious threat to people of color, religious minorities, lgbtq people and antiracist activists. But the Police Response<\/a> to the protests following the murder of george floyd flaunted their activity with right militant groups, fraternizing with those protesters california, and pennsylvania have laws that bar unregulated paramilitary activities and farright militants have often killed Police Officers<\/a>. As the chairman stated adl has reported far rights militants act have killed 51 Police Officers<\/a> from 1990 to 2018. The ambush, shooting, bombing and killing of Law Enforcement<\/a> officers in oakland and a local sheriffs deputies in santa cruz county, california, by far right militants highlights the Threat Police<\/a> engagement with these groups poses to their partners. Detailed recommendations to congress, for prosecutors and federal and state and local Law Enforcement<\/a> and i look forward to your questions. Thank you. Thank you very much for your testimony, mr. German. Professor johnson, you are now recognized for your five minutes of testimony. Thank you to the subcommittee members and to chairman raskin, chairwoman mal oney for the honor of speaking with you today. My name is vita johnson, associate professor of law at georgetown law. I write about criminal procedure of policing. Before i begin, i want to make clear that i believe that the vast majority of people become law Police Officers<\/a> do so for all the right reasons, including members of my own family. Nevertheless, it must be acknowledged that theres a long history of explicit racism in Police Department<\/a>s and sadly this legacy of racism continues today. Our nation has been one of the most diverse in the world. Our officers need to be able to protect and serve everyone in our community. In 2006, the fbi warned of White Supremacists<\/a> trying to infiltrate Police Department<\/a>s, department of Homeland Security<\/a> in 2009 warned that White Supremacists<\/a> are creadecre recr former military personnel and called it one of the biggest domestic terrorism threats in the United States<\/a>. In 2014, members of a Police Department<\/a> of florida were outed as members of the kkk. In 2015, an alabama officer was identified as being a member of the south. In 2017 Oklahoma Police<\/a> chief was discovered to be one of the most influential White Supremacists<\/a> in the country. In 2019, a Prospective Home Buyer<\/a> toured a michigan officers home and saw a framed kkk application. In addition to officers who identify with these types of groups, some officers hold explicitly racist views without any hate group affiliation. The reports in ferguson and chicago claim officers used the n word along with other disparaging words and, of course, sheriffs in North Carolina<\/a> white officers were caught on tape looking for a race war. Texting involving fors in San Francisco<\/a> and miami make clear that this is a problem nationwide. In my 2019 law review article kkk and the pd i compiled 170 instances of explicit racial bias found in news stories. We know that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Some officers arent so perilous as to end up on the news, but still hold these views. In confidentiality statues in many states make Police Issues<\/a> private so they dont make the news and blue wall of silence keeps many of these officers on the force because others fail to report them for their explicitly racist views. We care about this problem because racist views can translate into racist deeds. We know the officers disproportionately stop people of color and, of course, we worry most about violence. We know midnight crew in chicago 100 africanamerican men with the use of cattle prods and other torture. Officer in little rock, arkansas, was honest when he applied to a Police Department<\/a> that he attended a klan rally. He was hired anyway. He went on to shoot and kill a 15yearold, unarmed black boy. We might come to a way to ferry out some of these officers. Brady versus maryland is a Supreme Court<\/a> case that makes clear that the government must turn over any information thats favorable to the accuse and that includes information that impeaches a witness credibility. Information in the Police Possession<\/a> is imputed to prosecutors. Prosecutors would have to investigate their officers and turn that information over for use at a public trial. Other Solutions Include<\/a> better background checks and hiring of officers, zero tolerance policies, searches of officer emails and texts for key words associated with racial animous, policies in which they can raise the high rank and federal licensing of officers, which would allow for better screening and for officers from one department to another. We must weed out officers who hold racist beliefs rather than sweep them under the rug. Ill be happy to answer any questions. Professor johnson, thank you very much. I now recognize mr. Mink for his five minutes of testimony. Morning. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, my name is frank mink. Im a former white supremacist and neo nazi gay gang member. After i served my time in prison in 1994, i decided to leave the Skinhead Movement<\/a> now with the antibodies to the virus of hate. I spent the last 25 years speaking out against racism. I conducted hate crimes training for Police Officers<\/a>, fbi and Homeland Security<\/a> agents. I volunteer with the des moines Police Department<\/a> as an announcer at their annual fundraising hockey game. Im also an activist for black lives matter. Black lives matter. Ive spoken out about the fact that white supremacist leaders encourage their followers to join the police force as a means to cause harm to people of color. I was there when it was said. I was in the room where it happened. Im here to bear witness to my own experience. I grew up in a lower, middleclass, tough irishcatholic neighborhood in south philadelphia. I had a mother who was a drug addict and an abusive stepfather. I feared going home so much that some days i tried to get into a car. I moved in with my dad. I was a new kid, skinny punk rock white boy in an allblack school. This is when my fear turned to hate i went up that summer to visit my cousin in lancaster, pennsylvania. This is an amish community. I thought my friends were cool. They were older. They were neo nazis. I would hear them make racial comments. When they heard where i went to school i became the urban inner city expert and began to feel i mattered. The day i saw other people fear my group of friends is the day i decided to join this movement. Up until that point i might have been a teenager but inside i was a 7yearold scared little boy who feared everything, my parents, my stepparents, my school. I feared if i was going to have enough food to eat. I wanted people to fear me. I became a member of the neo Nazi Movement<\/a> i got a swastika on my neck to prove my undying loyalty. I grasped on to every word said in the room. Here is what i heard. 1991 i attended a meeting run by the White Student Union<\/a> at temple university, 15 to 20 members mostly college guys so they were career minded. They would use words they would say to us that we need to grow out our hair, stop getting tattoos and get ready to go into the military or police. Two people that were at theat meeting later on became cops. That same year i attended a meeting and heard the same rhetoric there. They told us to join Law Enforcement<\/a> so we could get black people felonies so they would not be able to legally arm themselves and would not be able to vote. Later in lehigh county, pennsylvania, i attended a hitler birthday party. At that party mark thomas told us how he was happy with our numbers but he thought we were too rowdy. He said we needed to chill out. Get rid of our tattoos and be better soldiers for the movement. Mark thomas held Bible Studies<\/a> regularly. We would all gather inside these military tents in his backyard and we would read the bible, shoot some guns and prepare to destroy sodom and gamorrah. In 1992, i attended a meeting of about 100 people in montgomery, alabama. This meeting was run by. Aryan youth fund where we were urged to join the military so we could get real training. Late 1992, i went to aryan fest in a desert town of california. At that time, i still had a big swastika tattoo on my neck. Many people made comments about me and that i need to get rid of it and grow out my hair because we need all of our people to join the military and or police. The fact that many of these neo nazi became cops means theres something not right at the screening process at Law Enforcement<\/a> and i believe its possible to fix. By me speaking out today, and with gods help, i hope we can start stitching this wound in america and stop putting bandaids on it. Breonna taylor mattered. Black lives matter. Thank you. Thank you very much for your compelling testimony, mr. Meeink. Sheriff napier, you are now recognized for your five minutes of testimony. Good morning. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before the subcommittee this morning and i thank you for that. My name is mark napier. I am the sheriff of pima county, arizona. The Law Enforcement<\/a> profession shares the concern that any bad actors may join its ranks and we share outrage of a very few members when they act out with violence and racial animous. However, these are the actions of a very, very few members of Law Enforcement<\/a>. Every day in communityies large and small, thousands of Law Enforcement<\/a> officers make over a million contacts with the public that result in no use of force or give rise to the appearance of any racial bias. Point of fact, most public contacts with Law Enforcement<\/a> are the results of a call for service. The Law Enforcement<\/a> profession makes every effort to weed out bad actors. Our hiring process is rigorous. Prior to employment, comprehensive background investigations are conducted, oral interviews, polygraphs and written examinations. Today, we even scan social media, looking for troubling posts and questionable associations. Successful candidates then go through extensive Academy Training<\/a>. This training includes cultural awareness training, racial bias training and use of force training. On completion of Academy Training<\/a> new officers go through Field Training<\/a> where he or she is evaluated and observed by a tenure, highperforming officer. New officer is on probation for one year, during which time his or her performance is reviewed and observed by field supervisor. The officer is then evaluated for the duration of his or her career. We take every step possible to weed out bad actors and bad candidates and then to professionally train, observe and evaluate our officers throughout their career. It would be dishonest to suggest that bad actors do not slip through, despite our best efforts. However, this is not unique to Law Enforcement<\/a>. Every profession risks the prospect of a bad actor infiltrating its ranks and tarnishing its standing. These isolated occurrences for any profession should not be used as an indictment of its entire membership or as a catalyst to assert that the isolated bad acts are evidence of systemic prevalence. As americans, we do not believe the bad acts of a few members of any Group Provides<\/a> justification for bias, stereotyping, prejudice and discrimination against all members of that group. This is always wrong. Even when its cast to our Law Enforcement<\/a> officers. Ive been a Law Enforcement<\/a> officer since 1981. I hold a bachelors degree in social psychology and masters degree in criminal justice. I do understand the manifestations of both over and implicit racial bias. Moreover, i believe that racism, discrimination and socialeconomic inequality still exists in our country and constitute a serious problem. Racism has been a scar on our country since its founding, and i believe it is still alive today. During my three decade career in Law Enforcement<\/a>, i have not found any evidence to make me believe that racism or White Supremacy<\/a> is systemic. Systemic is a very important word. In our profession. Assertions to the contrary i believe to be false. Not out of naivety, ignorance or lack of personal exposure to the profession. Rather, because i have simply not been exposed to any evidence that would lead me to reasonably believe that systemic racism and infiltration of White Supremacy<\/a> into the profession, which ive dedicated nearly four decades of my life to, is present in modern day Law Enforcement<\/a>. Again, i appreciate the opportunity to testify before the subcommittee this morning. And i welcome any questions that any members might have. Thank you. Sheriff napier, thank you very much for your testimony today and for joining us. Finally, heather taylor, president of the Ethical Society<\/a> of police of st. Louis missouri. Miss taylor, you are recognized for your five minutes of an opening statement. Thank you for having me this morning. I would like to start off once again. My name is heather taylor. I recently retired last friday. I was a 20year veteran of the st. Louis metropolitan Police Department<\/a>. I was a detective sergeant in the homicide section. However, im speaking on behalf of the Ethical Society<\/a> of police. The Ethical Society<\/a> of police was founded in 1972 to fight Racial Discrimination<\/a> in our community, in our Police Department<\/a>. We have approximately 325 members in the st. Louis city, st. Louis county and ferguson area. We are roughly 97 africanamerican. Im here to give my perspective on white sprems ideologies and white supremacist in Law Enforcement<\/a>. White supremacist infiltration in Law Enforcement<\/a>, plain view project, which affected our Police Department<\/a> greatly, which exposed racist content by Police Officers<\/a> at numerous other reports are clear examples we have a problem with White Supremacy<\/a> and racism in Law Enforcement<\/a>. I want to provide my perspective by telling a true story. For nearly seven years, ive repeatedly reported an officer for his racism. I learned this officer had a penchant for making racist statements about black people on social media. He once stated black people were pathetic. He also cheered a black man being shot in the head, posting, you can take him out of the ghetto, but you cant take the ghetto out of him. A black woman accused him of saying only prostitutes and drug dealers own bentleys. Another time he made a racist statement about black people and welfare. This officer was also reported for racial profiling by a citizen. He also is a Field Training<\/a> officer, training hundreds of officers within our Police Department<\/a>. He has never been fired for these statements and these complaints despite people like myself, a sworn officer, and citizens making these complaints. These statements were not the worst of his actions. This officer and other officers killed a black man under questionable circumstances in 2012. I was a scene investigator on that case. That case haunts me to this day. He used a banned choke hold. Another officer tased this man six times, six times. The officer violated numerous policies and witnesses said that one of the officers used the n word during this incident. Other stated the victim resisted arrest. The use of the n word, all witness statements related to me, all questionable actions by the officers were placed in a Police Report<\/a>, an official document. The report was turned over to the internal Affairs Division<\/a> for review for criminal charges or discipline. I was told the officers returned to full duty, no charges were filed. Just couldnt believe it. So i delivered a copy of the Police Report<\/a> to the Circuit Attorneys Office<\/a> in 2013. Once after the case was finally done. I just couldnt believe that there were no charges, there was nothing. To this day, i dont know if a grand jury ever reviewed the case for any form of charges. I dont know the discipline of that case. In 2020, the same officer that used that banned choke hold made an insensitive Facebook Post<\/a> about another black man. This time it was george floyd. It was about choke holds and his belief that george floyd, George Floyds<\/a> murder was justified. I believe more extensive background checks are necessary when hiring. I believe the immediate termination and removal of Police Certifications<\/a> of officers that support White Supremacy<\/a>, that are corrupt in any way, that these officers should be removed immediately. And it is clear, and any one saying you can train away racism, theyre wrong. You cannot train away racism. Just cant. You need to weed it out, fire them, terminate them if theyre officers and whistleblower actions need to be a priority. I risk mied life reporting officers, i received Death Threats<\/a> from officers, saying they wish i would bleed out while on a call by myself. If there are no protections in place that empower officers to come forward. I would also like to state that in 2017, a black officer, milton green, grew up in the inner city, survived, became an officer. He was shot in 2017 by a white officer. There were racial undertones about that incident. That was in 2017. Three months later, detective luther hall was brutally beaten in his own words, like rodney king, by four white st. Louis city Police Officers<\/a>. Those officers had been federally indicted. I would also like to state that covid19 is the leading cause of death for Police Officers<\/a> and suicide. The leading cause of death, we are losing officers by covid19 and suicide. Weve had 45 officers this year, unfortunately, including officer tamari bohani, who was shot and killed, have been shot and died by use of force. Its important to address that sympathizing with White Supremacy<\/a> is a problem within our Law Enforcement<\/a> communities. That is a reality. And what we see with the officer that im speaking about in my example that he is a Field Training<\/a> officer. Hes training other officers to become officers. Theres no way that he should have been allowed to continue in this field. I would also like to add in this that there was a recent study by the citigroup that listed that 16 doll 16 trillion is a result racism in our country. Thats what we have as a result of racism in this country. That includes Law Enforcement<\/a> in the settlements that have been made regarding racist officers, sympathizers within our Police Department<\/a> i welcome any statements or any questions. Thank you. Thank you very much, Sergeant Taylor<\/a>. With that, weve completed our witness testimony and we will enter upon questions. I now will recognize myself as chair for five minutes of questioning. I want to start with professor johnson to address the First Amendment<\/a> implications of this. I know that there are Supreme Court<\/a> decisions that say that you cant discriminate against people in public hiring based on what their political ideology is. But i wonder if you would speak to the speech conduct distinction in some of the things, for example, that Sergeant Taylor<\/a> just talked about in terms of officers letting their beliefs influence their actions on thefficers. I think its important to note its limited in a lot of ways and that is true for federal employees, judges and ways we limit the speech of Public Servant<\/a>s. There have been decisions by the Second Circuit<\/a> to say when and officers speech is at odds with the Police Department<\/a>s interest in having the trust of the in having the trust of the community, that the interest of the Police Department<\/a> outweigh the First Amendment<\/a> concerns of the Police Officer<\/a>. Office there was a famous case that took place in new york city about officers who had been afloat in expressing various racist stereotypes. Ultimately the Second Circuit<\/a> ruled that those officers could be immediately terminated. Thank you, professor johnson. Mr. German, dozens of officers n have beent killed by white we h supremacists, as you point out. The unredacted document we released today, as mr. Meeink talked about being encouraged by Neo Nazi Group<\/a>s. They talked about the risk of sabotage, the risk of having access to elected officials, the risk of having access to re the weaponry and opportunities, to use it. What do you think are the biggest risks of White Supremacists<\/a> actually infiltrating Law Enforcement<\/a> . I believe the biggest risk is the risk to communities policed by officers who are associated with white supremacist groups or engaged in other racist behavior. And im disappointed that the fbi has disavowed, apparently behind closed doors, its 2006 assessment, particularly because the 2015 assessment is much nearer in time and much more direct whatsn whats its talking about. Not just that officers might have white supremacist ideas but have active links to subjects of fbi domestic terrorism investigations. The reason im concerned about that is because the fbi already deprioritizes the investigation of White Supremacists<\/a>. And this kind of disavow disparages the work ofag very gd and effective fbi agents who work these cases despite the fact that theyre not a priority. There are a number of cases. The fbi in 2017 ran an appropriation that identified two Corrections Officers<\/a> involved in the ku klux klan plot to kill an inmate. There are many of these cases. A i could go on. We dont want the fbi to create aa Chilling Effect<\/a> in its agencies that would slow down investigations like this, when we already have in civil rights, color of law cases a declaration rates of up to 96 . You can imagine how hard that im to continue working when you have that kind of attitude from your superiors. Thank you. Mr. Meeink, let me come to you. I think it may have even been Sergeant Taylor<\/a> who voiced some skepticism about whether you caa train somebody out of their racism and that certainly seems right in the abstract. T maybe on the other hand, maybe your o career or your own evolution is a counter example to that. We know sheriff napier spoke about the importance of racial,f maensitivity training. Do you think thats enough to make it work . And how did you get out of the whiteso supremacist ideology th you were so steeped in . Thank you. Thank you for the question. Everything can help. Anything that gets more people involved with other human beingy is something that will always help. Thats what changed my life, was having consistent people in my life to prove me wrong know consistently, to take this right spiritual path. What i can tell you, what i know about how i changed my racism, i learned that empathy plus hum humility equals humanity and te that has changed my life dramatically for the better. The important part about the policing is that we need to takm this very serious in the fact that im talking about events that were 30 years ago. Do you know how many movements, and groups have started and done the same thing since them . Its really a problem. Were finding more and morere stories. Since my article came out in the daily beast a couple of weeks ago, more and more officers have been outed and well continue to do that. Training is another option. In need people to get involved in communities they once hated or were afraid of. A lot of the officers we are ce getting, officers are coming from the suburbs, suburban Police Forces<\/a> that are getting men that are full of fear, fear that i used to fear. I looked in the face of that man with his name on George Floyds<\/a> neck. He had arrogant fear written all over him. That leads to racism. Place that is racism. Thank you miechlt time is all up. I yield to the distinguished Ranking Member<\/a> for his five minutes of questioning. You hav to unmute. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate that, mr. Chairman. I appreciate all the witnesses. Thank you for your testimony. Particularly those of you who served in Law Enforcement<\/a>. Servi not to belittle those who didnt. Just appreciate all your service. Miss johnson you said you have family members in Law Enforcement<\/a>. Appreciate you all. Mr. Chairman i would like to put into the record an article the wall street journal had, editorial to be clear called who watches the hate watchers aboutr the southern property law centers recent turmoil, knowing the video that was put out near the beginning of the hearing was a Southern Poverty Law Center<\/a> video. Withouthout oobjection. Yeah. The journal just points out some of the issues that the Southern Poverty Law Center<\/a> has had within its own ranks. E been theyve been m making internal reviews about racism and sexism and other issues inside the property law center. Indication that this is we have societal questions. Im perfectly comfortable having these conversations here withs n Law Enforcement<\/a> as well a, thath should be looking across all these organizations, particularly organizations who are focusing so heavily on it. A question for sheriff napier. Could you describe, sir, the s u current difficulties you have in the hiring process and some of the processes you all go through with respect to diversity and training in your hiring processes . Clearly, hiring is a significant challenge right now. The Current National<\/a> rhetoric around Law Enforcement<\/a> has not helped that. Especially trying to recruit, as we desperately do, people of color and people from ou hav socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds is exceptionally hard. When you have this supposition that theres systemic racism in the profession, it seems ht unwelcoming to people of color and from socioeconomically nce disadvantaged backgrounds. To hire but then also to retain, once people get into this profession, it is now more is difficult topo retain them. My son is a tucson Police Officer<\/a>. With the recent events he said something that i hope will touch all your hearts. He said i was willing to lay down mymy life for my community. I realized that was part of something i signed up to do, bud i never signed up to be hunted t like an animal. It has that disquieting and. Chilling effect on Police Officers<\/a> and the ability to recruit these young people. Its an ongoing challenge. Its not going to get better any time soon. Theres certain economic drivers, of course. Its not helping our recruitingf efforts especially in those d areas we would like to recruit better. Sheriff, would you find it ee troubling youre in travis county, texas, where the city of austin is. It just cut its department of a third, up wards of 150 million. Theyre now having to reroute and take folks from one for example, the drug unit, theyre aving to move people off ofof that for regular patrol. And they canceled the entire recruiting class, this existing class, which was the most diverse in history. Do you see that as a problem . Do you see that as something that might be a nationwide problem beyond what im seeing firsthand here in austin, texas . Of course. Were not asking Law Enforcement<\/a> to do less. When i became a Police Officer<\/a> in 1981, Law Enforcement<\/a> was e t arguably a Pretty Simple<\/a> by comparison to what it isis in 2020. Were asking Law Enforcement<\/a> ss officers to be Mental Health<\/a> ore professionals, Substance Abuse<\/a> counselors. Were asking more and more. The idea that you would remove l funding at theaw very time when were asking more of Law Enforcement<\/a> than we ever have is nonsensical. Should we have a Great Community<\/a> dialogue about the redefinitions redefining of what Law Enforcement<\/a> does and what services it provides a community and the manner in which those services are provided . Thats a sensible dialogue. I think that results in greaterd funding of Law Enforcement<\/a> not h less. I just approached my board of supervisors, additional appropriation for the hiring of Community Engagement<\/a> specialists, people that have specific Mental Health<\/a> and Substance Abuse<\/a> training that will respond to calls that depuy normally a deputy would respond to, because theyre a better tool. So we are actually going in the opposite direction. Sheriff ive got 30 seconds left and want to be mindful of the clock as the chairman did. I would just close with this question. You touched on a very important issue that i would love for us to have a long conversation about. Resource the additive nature of having additional resources, Mental Health<\/a> counselors, folks to support supplemental Law Enforcement<\/a> versus a blunt n to whacking of Law Enforcement<\/a> because of a reaction to issues that is undermining Law Enforcement<\/a>. Can you speak to that . And i yield back to the chairman . Yeah. D the community is rightly concerned about what role law t enforcement terfills. Mor we are better able to fill that with more resources, not less. And the indiscriminate, arbitrarily cutting of a Law Enforcement<\/a> agency is nonsensical and does very little to enhance Public Safety<\/a> or to y enhance thehe ability of law eno enforcement to respond to therc evolving needs and desires of the community for public service. I would include that. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Roy. Thank you, sheriff. I recognize the chair for her five minutes of questioning. Please unmute, if you would, ms. Ma lch malone maloney. Hello, can you hear me now . Okay. Thank you. Mr. German, i wanted to zero in on your august 2020 report. In that report, you said that the fbi hadadthe previously identified the main problem of White Supremacy<\/a> in law inte enforcement as, gritquote, a rio the integrity of the fbi investigations and the security and agentss informants, end quote. What do you mean by that . Thank you for the question, chairwoman maloney. I believe that my concern is when you look at the 2006 assessment and the 2015 counterterrorism guide, the fbin identifies the primary problem of White Supremacists<\/a> infiltration of Law Enforcement<\/a> is the risk itenforcem poses tor investigations and Law Enforcement<\/a> personnel t rather than recognizing that the fbi also has a mandate to civil m ws rights. And i believe that the primary problem with white supremacist infiltration of Law Enforcement<\/a> is that the threat it poses to the communities, these officers, police. Unfortunately thats not even t with the full redactions removed thats not the primary concern reflected in those documents. Well, it seems that the fbi disagrees with you. They have refused to provide t testimony for this hearing and have repeatedly told us that the 2006 threat assessment is an irrelevant and outdated document. So in your report, you note thad the fbidres report does not adde thess potential harm white supremacist Police Officers<\/a> pose to, quote, communities of color. They are to Police Society<\/a> at t large. What is the impact on communities of color . Can you elaborate when police tolerate racism in their ranks . R the criminal Justice System<\/a>, there are Racial Disparities<\/a> at every step from who the police stop to who gets searched, who sets arrested to how theyre charged to use of force issues. T weve seen these disparities persist over many decades now. And as long as there is a continuing persistence of white supremacist involvement and racist behavior in Law Enforcement<\/a>, that is going to color the perception the public has about police, particularly in the communities that are most heavily policed. And that disruption between lawd enforcement and the the communi they serve ofundermines the security of all of us. Also in the 2006 assessment, the fbi stated, and i quote, white supremacist infiltration of Law Enforcement<\/a> can result in other abuses of authority and passive tolerance of racism within communities served, end quote. Do you believe that observation has been born out by Current Events<\/a> that we have been observing the past few months . I do. Again, this isnt a new problem. There are fbi agents and field offices across the country who n doing good work on this n topic. But because that work is deprioritized the within the fbt becomes difficult for them to be as successful as they need to be. And, you know, i would particularly look at civil civi rights color of law violations and the high rate of declination. Given all of this, do you its irresponsible of the fbi to continue to ignore this problem . Absolutely. If the problem is large enough for the fbi to warn its own agents, i think its important that the fbi and the department of justice put a national y larg strategy to protect the public from thesefo officers as well. Ec and i totally agree that this is a small minority of Police Officers<\/a> who are engaged in thif behavior, but as long as it persists, it affects the whole system. Thank you. Mr. Meeink earlier this month you gave an interview to the daily beast speaking about how multiple members of your gang infiltrated the Police Department<\/a>. Who would you say to those ining in hose think thatat white supremacist infiltration of Law Enforcement<\/a> is not a real threat . Thank you for that question. R the answer to that question, i know the facts. I know that there are people that i used to run with, who are not very spiritually good people, and are racist to the core. Ped i would just fear if i was a black person being pulled over on the side of the road, knowing the people i know that became cops, i would be fearful, too. I yield my time. T this is my last question. Epam do you feel theres a real problem of white supremacist infiltration of the Police Department<\/a> . Enback. Ce yield some thank you tochlt give i w yo some experience real quick, i was a hockey coach for a long time when i got out of the neo g nazis, i had a great job of being a hockey coach. The reason i bring that up is every hockey team has an acknowledge at a timer, right . No matter what that man does, every person on that team has td stand up for him. So when you have one racist cop in a precinct, the other cops u may notp even know his full beliefs but have to back him up at all times no matter what. I think thats kind of the trouble were getting ourselves into. People with the blue line will protect one another and not want to have to cause division between themselves to even call out somebody who is wrong. So w i worry about that, that they e will protect each other because of the blue line, like a hockey team. Thank you. The gentle lady yields back. I now recognize mr. Clay for five minutes of questioning. If mr. Clay is not there, i wilf go to Debbie Wasserman<\/a> shults. She may have stepped away. I will go to mr. Gomez. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman. Mr. A firmeeink, youve given c disturbing firsthand account of white supremacist infiltration of Police Department<\/a>s. White supremacist groups have historical historically shown interest in infiltrating Law Enforcement<\/a> communities. Can you tell us how this sqwn perso squares with your own rience personal experience . Thank you for the question. Off my personal experience, coming up in the neo nazi world, we werent so much worried about the cops on the outside. We were worried about fbi and further investigations. So we never had a fullon hatred toward the cops. They were just a speed bump. But we knew in learning how to become Police Officers<\/a>, we could affect our Community Better<\/a> towards our views when i say d better. That is the disturbing fact and trend that i do see coming through the Police Department<\/a> right now. Also noted in one of its redacted passages revealed by the subcommittee that it was concerned about unreported instances and infiltration that has gone undetected. It further noted that the possibility of infiltration has gone undetected is of great an concern. The eone who has beengr ineat organized White Supremacists<\/a> have had these conversations, do you think the fbi is being irresponsible wheno tod today, it discounts the likelihood that infiltration goes undetected or unreported . So i know that in the rooms what we have always talked about was how to try to get around th theirno tests to make sure they dont see we have neo nazi past or neo nazi beliefs. It is talked about regularly about how toto try to get aroun their it becomes a goal of theirs, to get around the screening process of Police Department<\/a>s. Thats talked about in the rooms all the time. When these groups of White Supremacists<\/a>, is there often on or two, or how many would be in a particular Police Department<\/a> . And would they operate more as a click within that department or that station . That would be projecting on my end and i wouldnt know the facts to that. Know really, i know that theres neo nazis that get into the police. N i dont know how many do it at the time. I cant give any information i dont want to speak out of turn to something i dont know as a fact. The other stuff i talked about l know as fact. The reason im asking that question, in Los Angeles County<\/a>, and this is a question for mr. German. In Los Angeles County<\/a> we have the Sheriffs Department<\/a> thats had a long history of having some people call it clicks. Dom other people call it gangs at dominic station houses and often have been terrorizing at black and brown communities. Have been to the station. I went along residealongs with the Sheriffs Department<\/a> in east l. A. There was something i saw port firsthand, went into the station and it was called ft. Apache, right . Its something i actually witnessed myself. Just last month prosecutor alleged one of these gangs inducts new members after theyve been involved in shooting or acts of brutality by giving them inking parties where theyre ta tood with nazi imagery. Weve asked the doj to investigate. Mr. German, how do these violent gangs or clicks fit into Law Enforcement<\/a> . It certainly is one manifestation of the problem. Again, when you see these instances, its often through at civil t rights lawsuits or investigative journalists who are uncovering these cases, and then Law Enforcement<\/a> responds t once its a public scandal where, of course, people in Law Enforcement<\/a> understood this was an issue long before the investigative journalist or victims of these abuses come forward. And thats the as problem with fbis reporting. It acknowledges theres a problem, but its solution is to advise its agents to protect advir cases rather than having a comprehensive National Strategy<\/a> to identify these officers that are often known within their departments and make sure that we are internshiping this in the bud proactively, as we would if it was any other kind of terrorist group. One last thing is that i want to just acknowledge that the Sheriffs Department<\/a> in l. A. Has different clicks or gangs, and some are white supremacist affiliated and some are multiethnic. And what happenshere i iss if t join that click, theres a lot of pressure like, as mr. Meeink says. Members who are joining, theyre new to the Law Enforcement<\/a>, deputies feel like they wont be protected if their back is on the line, on the streets. So they have this weird pressure to join. And in the end, Law Enforcement<\/a> th committed not to an ideology, but to the department and its ability to protect and serve the people of their communities. With that, i yield back, mr. Chairma chairman. Mr. Komar, youre now recognized for five minutes. Sheriff, appreciate you beini here. Appreciatet hiri all the witnes being here. You mentioned the hiring process in your remarks. I do think its important that we have a very heavy representation of Minority Police<\/a> offic Police Officers<\/a>, minority Law Enforcement<\/a>, especially in the minority districts. I think that would go a long wao towards solving a lot of the distrust that exists out there. What are the current challenges you face with respect to hiring the right people in a diversity in hiring . Well, i would say to some degree, this very hearing does not help that. When you allege that there is systemic infiltration of White Supremacists<\/a>, and people with racially biassed ideology withiy the industry thats not welcoming to people of color. Were going down to inner city high schools, personally, my department, and trying to welcome these people early on in their freshman and sophomore year of high school, trying to t saying you relati, have a home with our family and try to establish these relationships early on. But this continual assertion that there is systemic infiltration of White Supremacists<\/a> and people with racial animous in this profession does not help that. I i dont speak about this from anecdotal evidence or from an academic perspective but rather. As a practitioner for 39 years. I couldnt agree more. Ou i was going to ask you how you felt like the Current National<\/a> dialogue among the democrats, because it is among the democrats, implying the systemic raci racism, tlar constant drum beating of defunding the policee in cities that need Law Enforcement<\/a> more than anyone. And even this committee, the title of this hearing, White Supremacy<\/a> and the blue. Whats that doing to Law Enforcement<\/a> right now, to the n morale, to Race Relations<\/a> . Can you kind of give us an example of what its like . Of well, i think its strained our relationship further with the communities thattit we strue historically to bond with. Its been an ongoing struggle through the entirety of my career. This isnt purely a partisan issue. I think there are some republicans who are concern ed, myself being one of them, about having better relations with people of color, to better reacl out and understand those communities. I think thats a responsibility that the Law Enforcement<\/a> needs to embrace without partisan ideology. Things are not helping our relationship with people of color. And these disenfranchised communities we historically struggled with. I complete etely agree. Ag i supported many parts of criminal justice reform, those especially sentencing and things like that. Need sentencing injustices. I believe we need more minority Law Enforcement<\/a> officers. T ive always said that. I do believe that the constant attacking of our Law Enforcement<\/a> is heavily overweighted in the democrat rhetoric right now, right before an election. But sheriff, every profession has bad apples, and Law Enforcement<\/a> is no exception. Edi what challenges do you face with respect to weeding out the bad apples once they become employed as Law Enforcement<\/a> officers . Tremendous due process and Union Agreements<\/a> that make it very difficult for us sometimes to weed out these bad apples. We have some people that have frightening disciplinary histories on our department and ths hard to get rid of these people and to get them out the door. So, it is an ongoing challenge. We do want Law Enforcement<\/a> officers to have Due Process Rights<\/a> and be protected like any citizen could expect to be ronm protected. Nt but to some extent these protections may have gone a little too far, little too straining on executives like myself, who recognize a problem and think that this person might be better equipped to be in i completely agree. Let me thank you for your service. Thank all of our Law Enforcement<\/a> women and men who put their lives on the line every day to keep us safe in america. D and i o i have 14 second left here. I do believe that if were op looking for bipartisan opportunities, a bipartisan opportunity for us to work se together, madam chairwoman, would be to eliminate the n barriers that let Law Enforcement<\/a> have, like the sheriff just mentioned, making it easier to get rid of the bad apples in Law Enforcement<\/a>. Its very difficult to fire someone once they get tenure, merit, become a civil servant. It shouldnt be that way when youre dealing with a i yield f cops. With that, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you, mr. Comer. I now recognize the gentlelady for five minutes of questioningt mr. Chair, did you say mr. Clay . Mr. Chair, yes, youre k you recognized for five minutes. S thank you so much, and Ranking Member<\/a> roy, for conducting this hearing and let me also congratulate Sergeant Taylor<\/a> for your retirement and your service to the st. Louis community over the years. We appreciate that. The types of posts and comments that the plainview project identify, reflect, antiblack racism, antihispanic racism, islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, and violence e of against sieve ville jcivilians. Sergeant taylor, our city, st. Louis, was one of the cities explored by the project and as the head of the st. Louis Ethical Society<\/a> of police can you talk about how these racist attitudes translate offline . Itus thank you for your question, and thank you. Ate so the attitudes, how they translate is in the state of missouri you are 91 more likely to be stopped and pulled over in youre africanamerican compared to white drivers. Also how it translates is africanamerican officers in st. Louis city are 60 more likely i to leave slmpd within their first seven years. We also know africanamericans in our community overwhelminglyc apply toom become police office, even in this environment right now. Africanamericans want to be Police Officers<\/a>, they apply. The catch is the hiring process is sometimes not fair, so you have all those systemic factors that are in playlay, and they lt the opportunities of africanamericans in our city to become Police Officers<\/a>. You think about the plainview project, what it did, it exposed these biases, homophobia, p racism, and what you see in a Bigger Picture<\/a> is a systemic problem. And you mentioned in your testimony 16 trillion. As a result of systemic racism. Do you have any idea of how much st. Louis has paid out for policemen, misconduct, wrongful death settlements . Do you have any idea about thath oh, millions, millions. We recently had an officer, wer captain, who settled a lawsuit for over 1 million for racism and discrimination. We have to detective luther hall who was brutally beaten by four white Police Officers<\/a>. His partner whos white was working with hm undim undercove wasnt touched. Luther was beaten but not his partner whos white. Thats likely going to be a y at settlement. Milton green who was shothe by another white colleague, an officer coming to the aid of he those officers. Its in the millions. D increase double theispr budgeto lawsuits now. Which burdens the taxpayers in a disproportionate way. Let me ask you about attorney kim gardners exclusionary list where she does not take certain cases from officers who are on this list. I notice that some of them match up with these posts that are from this article. What does that do to the moraleh ofe Police Officers<\/a> as other as chairman has said, for the good officers . What does that do when they see these cases not being taken up and the whole thing about not being disciplined for these racist posts that are put up. It is very difficult. Its its in one sense, youre happy, youre absolutely youre clapping o that hes refusing to take their cases. But on the back end of cases it still have to work with these people. You have to work with people who are homophobic, who are racist, who are making these violent threats. The belief my belief is a good majority of us are coming to work to do our job, we do it fairly. However, we have to stand up, we have to stand up as officer off plan blak a black and white. We see posts by other officers, we see corruption, we have to stand up. It is and as far as, you kno their spirits are down a lot of times within the Police Department<\/a>. When you see these things. Again, thank you for your service. Mr. Chairman, my time expired. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Clay. I now recognize ms. Wassermanschultz. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The threat of White Supremacy<\/a> has become really more dangerous than ever and meanwhile, the presence of White Supremacists<\/a> embedded within Law Enforcement<\/a> make ts mos it more difficult t detect and counteract threats from violent hate groups. In june of found collabo2016, t californ california Police Officers<\/a> were rty at a be collaborating and te protecting members of the traditionalist workers party, a Neo Nazi Group<\/a> in order to target, quote, antiracist activists after a clash in sacramento. In february 2019 a Police Lieutenant<\/a> in portland was trip discovered in a longrunning friendly correspondent with the leader of patriot prayer, a farright extremist group. My own south Florida Community<\/a> has not been immune to hate within its own Law Enforcement<\/a> ranks. Laud in 2015 four ft. Lauderdale Police Officers<\/a> were found to have exchanged violently racist text messages. Leading to the dismissal of at least three dozens cases against black defendants. I dont want to give the impression this is representative of all Law Enforcement<\/a>. These examples, aalone, are too many. So, mr. German, my question is can Law Enforcement<\/a>s responses to White Supremacists<\/a> be blunted by sympathetic officers who dont perceive rightwing terrorism as a threat . Absolutely can be. Prd the solution is is to, as professor johnson hadof advocated that prosecutors have as Sergeant Taylor<\/a> has suggested, protecting the good officers who report their colleagues when they engage in racist behavior. So to h so we can have a system that the good officers are able to report the misconduct of their colleagues without themselves being targeted and then the tesm prosecutors can make sureon tha those officers testimony is not being used in a way that would undermine the rights of defendants who are charged with. Crimes. Sergeant taylor, have you noticed the difference between how your colleagues assess threats posed by violent white extremists as opposed to nothos of other groups like dividual individuals, for example, protesting George Floyds<\/a> murde . Rge weve had colleagues that have been white and black that believe george floyd was murdered. However, we do have employees that stated that, you know, it was justified, that seeing the knee on George Floyds<\/a> neck was justifiable and that goes with my openingg statement with that officer was one of them, but hes not the only one. What that does it brings in that divide once again that just were on opposite ends a lot of times when it comes to things like that along racial lines and it doesnt help bring us together to do our job effectively. Thank you. We last month okay. Last month we saw a video of police in kenosha providing a mm water, for example, to rightwing militia members and telling them that they, quote, appreciated their presence even though they were heavily armed and out after a county curfew. Later that night one of those militia members, 17yearold Kyle Rittenhouse<\/a>, allegedly opened fire and killed two protesters. Mr. Unde german, in your experie going undercover with white supremacist groups, do you think that these extremists believe Law Enforcement<\/a>, whether be mo implicitly or explicitly, is more aligned with their world view . S. There had been more and my frustration is when Law Enforcement<\/a> experts dont seem to recognize the danger of their colleagues. Youve been trying to ronald up santa cruz county, sheriffs deputies attacked by ns farright militant. We havent seen a change in Police Behavior<\/a> toward these militants and i think that poses a threat to the communities the Police Officers<\/a> serve but to Law Enforcement<\/a> officers, themselves. Oliceficers as i close, its time that we acknowledge the dangers of a Police Culture<\/a> that compromises its ability to address violent rightwing extremists by tolerating itnority within its ranks even if a small minority. I was glad to hear mr. Comer say we need to g after bad apples but by failing to fully tackle what internal Law Enforcement<\/a> studies have flagged as a problem, Public Confidence<\/a> in our police is further eroded i at a time when we can least affordd so i appreciate the opportunity to have this hearing today, and i yield back. Thank you, ms. Wasserman smul wassermansmulwasserman wassermanschultz. U now recognize alexandria ocasiocortez. Thank you, mr. Chairman,t. Thank you to the panelists and Witnesses Today<\/a> for your testimony and offering your insight. Before i begin i would like to o ask unanimous consent to submit to the record a department of justice hate a report on hat crime victimization. And a cnnthe arizese which summarizes the report. Without objection. T now, far too much of the nd discussion around the issue of white supremacist infiltration in policing focuses on whether. This problem exists at all, and we have known for generations that its not a question about whether this problem is an issue, its a matter of how we have allowed it to sustain for so long. Congress as well has been allow complicit anded our silence has been allowed has allowed for more violence and continued generational trauma in our communities. The question was raised by the Ranking Member<\/a> r earlier, why do we keep talking about this . We keep talking about this because we have not solved thisi problem. And i want to make very clear m that when we talk about systemil racism, we arent litigating the individual attitudes of any one officer. We can all exist in racist systems and do not have to be racist or consciously racist in order to participate in these systems, and think its quite evident when you look at the outcome of the war on drugs, systemic racism is about the laws that are on the books. It is about the types of enforcement that happens. Its about how how many officers get designated to somen communities more than others that yieldsd the racial dispar in their outcomes. It doesnt have to do with indv litigating each and every one individual officer. And that is really the issue tt that is at play. One of the things that i wanted to discuss is we have to stop asking about how if White Supremacy<\/a> in policing exists, and i think we need to start figuring out how we can better determine the scale of this problem. How big is this issue . Mr. German, in your report, you write about the unbroken chain of Law Enforcement<\/a> involvement in violent organized racist activity right up to the present day. But you also note that only rarely do these cases lead to criminal charges. S that so why is that . Thank you for the question. I believe its difficult to poi prosecute Police Officers<\/a> because partly theausese of way that the civil rights laws are written and have been interpreted by the Supreme Court<\/a>. So theres certainly room for congress to work on that. But also for how the fbi investigates these crimes, whert when there is an incident of alleged Police Brutality<\/a> that Law Enforcement<\/a> the fbi willh often investigate thatey very narrowly. Much the way they do hate crimes. Are we able to prove that there some kind of bias or intention to violate civil rights in this case, rather than looking comprehensively at that Police Officers<\/a> past to know whether that bias could be proven by other means. Ity those cases are sent to Justice Department<\/a> prosecutors and the vast majority of them are declined for prosecution so it becomes a matter of rote. Fbi agents know that they just churn these cases out. Thank you. Sergeant taylor, in your decadedecade decadeslong career in Law Enforcement<\/a>, how often would you see officers who harbored and en s supremacist views actually held responsible for their actions . Very rarely. Very rarely we have an officer 1 that we 9 with covid19 who made a statement about chineseamericans and covid being spread in San Francisco<\/a>. Reported him. Had a citizen report him. Ed for decades before, he had been disciplined for 30 days for using the n word and hes still on the street patrolling. P so, very rarely. So, we have testimony that nd this is a problem and its not being its systemically not being addressed, but professor johnson, i have one last alk ab question. Importantthe that we m talk about the legal mechanisms by which kind of that perpetuates this issue. So, lets talk about qualifying immunity. How does the legal system in n m general, includingmuni qualifie immunity, protect racist Law Enforcement<\/a> officers fromom evt accountability . And how can we hope to evaluate the true spread of this problem given those barriers . Thats an excellent question. I think qualified immunity is certainly a barrier to holding Police Officers<\/a> civilly liable and have the fact that interests align between police and prosecutors because prosecutors depend so much on Police Officers<\/a> to help make their cases. To see a situation where, you know, officers arent being held responsible within their own ranks, theyre not being held responsible by prosecutors and theyre not being held responsible to our civil courts and so its its just a significant problem. Thank you, professor johnson. Ms. Ocasiocortez. Thank you, chairman raskin, for convening this hearing. I think it is worth repeating, history and the root s of policing are inextricably linked to the antebellum trade of the south which led to the establishment of allwhite Police Department<\/a>s. Criminal Law Enforcement<\/a> met the dehumanization of lives. Police departments across the country were saturated with ku klux klan members and a sympathizers who refused to intervene in their campaign of o terror. By thers early 20th century thes kkk had over 1 million members. Given your experience with white supremacist groups, do you think that contemporary organizations havewill con tried to continue campaign of influence on Law Enforcement<\/a> . Thank you for the question. W yes, maam. I believe that, you know, a lot of the old Neo Nazi Group<\/a>s have become groups like the proud boys and lot of those proud boys are filling and wanting to be lg Police Officers<\/a>. Theyre now flying the cop flag at all those rallies and in their homes. I mean, so the proud boys who used to be what i would have upnsidered are the neo nazis of the early 90s and 80s are planning to gear up to become Law Enforcement<\/a>. T thats their now new goal because they see the damage they can do and get away with it. Thats why they want to join. They know that they can the s war on drugs, as aoc, the war on drugs and the treading on our t 4th amendment allows bully cops to pull us from cars and bring dogs around us to search us when we have not committed a crime. D we are the citizens and civil t servants should not be able to do that. I yield my time. Re thank coyou,rd and its clea from historical record we cannot simply rely on training to address this problem. Al and u across our country racism is often engrained in official and unofficial Police Trainings<\/a> so take thee case of travis yates. After the minneapolis mayor banned socalled warrior training for the citys cops to reduce police violence, yates s offered to train minneapolis oe police for free. And this summer, in the wake of George Floyds<\/a> murder recorded saying that tulsa police shoot africanamericans, quote, less than we brought ought to, end quote. A then theres john guandalo, an exfbi agent whom the Southern Poverty Law Center<\/a> describes as, quote, notorious Muslim Basher<\/a> and conspiracy theorist, end quote. Hes provided Law Enforcement<\/a> trainings in at least seven states since leaving the fbi inr 2008. So Sergeant Taylor<\/a>, have you heard of eriences or had any experiences of racist, ind violent trainings . They do exist. The example i used in my opening statement, that officers he trains another jurisdiction. After we complained on him, thank goodness, they no longer use him to train other officers. Yes, hes deeped in violent ideologies, racism toward africanamericans, muslims, you name it. He trains other officers. So that is present. It is very much present in Law Enforcement<\/a> with these officers. And theyre allowed to fester t and fester and fester in the aw policies allow that. And might i also just, you know, add for a moment, i appreciate the enthusiastic affirmation and support for the need to end qualified immunity. I introduced a bill with justin amash to do that. No the disregard for black and brown lives. Theres no accountability for as long as we have that lity wdoc. Mr. German, have you seen other instances where Police Training<\/a> emerged as a Pressure Point<\/a> for spreading white supremacist views . I identify, you know, even in implicit bias training which we expect to be the most comprehensive in antiracism, i quote three separate trainers who say they a specifically avo mentioning explicit racism in Law Enforcement<\/a> because they dont want to offend their audience. And that, i think, is a bigger part of the problem, is that by willingly turning a blind eye to this problem, we allow it to tp fester rather than taking it lld headon and making sure we understand that we cant stop or correct implicit bias and unconscious bias if we dont address overt and explicit bias. And, professor johnson, given the sequence of events that took place in kenosha, wisconsin, Kyle Rittenhouse<\/a> murdered and injured black lives matter he activists, can you give us year vi your view, evolution is so important. As a protector an ally of white supremacist groups. Your question illustrates how significant this history is. I mean, between the first Police Department<\/a>s being organized to catch enslaved people, to the l lynchings that took place for decades without any white people being held responsible by law fm enforcement. To, you know, a lot of the unrest that we saw in los angeles in the 90s and elsewhere that this is something that is consolidated power within the state. And its used against people of. Color and poor people in this country. Thank you. The gentle ladys time has expired. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, professor johnson. I turn to the representative of the district of columbia, mrs. Norton, youre recognized for your five minutes can you hear me, mr. His is chairman . We, yes, we got you. Thank you. This is a very important hearing that were and not the first one weve had on this subject. I am concerned that despite identifying this problem of going back to 2006, were in 2020 now, the fbi has done nothing to address what has become a growing threat and now they appear to be arguing that it doesnt exist at all. I note that they that two fbi witnesses did come before us last year. They gave us 2,000, more than 2,000 words of testimony and they didnt even use the words, White Supremacy<\/a> once. Thats after the charlottesville killing of heather heyer. Even more concerning for me is that theres been a recent whistleblower report that alleges that senior Trump Administration<\/a> appointees have s attempted to suppress a segment of a dhs threat assessment that predicted an elevated threat environment from white spr supremacist groups this year. That is what i mean about a growing threat that is still being denied by the fbi. Mr. Chairman, id like to flip to the other side of this issue because i am concerned thated i recent years the fbi has released a report on what apparently all experts agree is a fictitious movement they calll black identity extremism. I have found no expert that says any such thing. Id like to ask mr. German, do you know what of any such movem black identity extremism, what does it mean to you that the fbi would rather focus on what experts seem to agree is an imagined threat of black identity extremists but not on the threat of white supremacist and police . It is systemic bias that exists in Law Enforcement<\/a>. Remain an overwhelm bingly whit andd overwhelmingly male organization. When their guidelines are altered to allow them to investigate groups without evidence of criminality, evidence of wrongdoing, that can target people that theyre afraid of because of bias it rr than focusing on evidence that shows individual or engaged in thank you. Professor johnson, can you talk about barriers inside of federal Law Enforcement<\/a> that make it difficult to give the issue of supremacy the attention it requires now . I think federal Law Enforcement<\/a> lacks the political will to address it. L there was an abc poll in 2017 that found that 10 of americane found it was acceptable so you have to imagine that there may be a similar number of Law Enforcement<\/a> officers that feel that way. So what you got inside Law Enforcement<\/a> and no real pressure from the outside to address this issue, its going to continue to fester. Thank you. Finally, id like to ask Sergeant Taylor<\/a>, as a local Law Enforcement<\/a> officer, what are you looking for from the federah government . Thats whatocus we have to focu here as members of congress. What are you looking for from the federal government to help you combat this threat . What could we do . I think that, to be fair and speaking to the very people that are in the field, that have experienced these atrocities that are black white, you know,e homophobia, racism, all these different extreme views that officers have. We have to have those people at the table to discuss these things. And if you dont have them there with these views that have experienced these things and fought these donsystems, and t goes for our community as well, if we dont have them present, a everything cant be white andnd male. We have to have diversity there to bring these views into play to actually address them. It has to come from a wellrounded perspective. Thank you, ms. Norton, for your questioning, and finally, we come to miss tlaib for her five minutes of questioning. Thank you so much, chairman raskin, for allowing this courageous hearing ing ting to. I do want to take a moment and recognize Sergeant Taylor<\/a>s incredible courage as well. I know it hasnt been easy for n you to speak the truth about what was going on while you were serving there. Im sure its continued even after your retirement. So we really do appreciate, especially my community thats 85 black, i so appreciate you speaking up. The issue were discussing is not speculation. Not re really worried that we continue to say its some sort of theory out there. Its been proven its our rally today. White supremacy as you all knows has not been confined to munitis Facebook Post<\/a>s. Its evidence of what is actually bleeding into our communities. And that is making us all unsafe right now. Recent horrific events have occur red in my district that a have raised concerns for me. Professor johnson, i want to start ywith you, yes or no, should we be cornncerned some s rightring supremist groups see Police Department<\/a>s as allies . So yes, absolutely. The this is something ive seen nersthand in my district. Last year the detroit Police Department<\/a> escorted a heavily bs armed Neo Nazi Group<\/a>, wearing swastika arm bands, as they disrupted a pride festival. Saying with regard to antiracist counterprotests that, quote, both sides were wrong which drew outrage, of and se, in our community. Black lives matter, peaceful protests by detroit policece recently, met by beatings, choke holds, arrests. The protests had to go as far as to get a federal judge which agreed that they have to stop using batons, chemical agents, like tear gas and choke holds on prote protesters. Professor johnson, how does this kind of protection for neo nazis, the violence for those protesting right now for black lives in detroit, a city, again, thats 85 black, make us safer . It doesnt, and i thing itk evidence of exactly what this subcommittee is investigating. Much. Nk you soo you know, one of the things that is a concern to me as, you know, the fbi does not believe this topic was worthy of testimony today. Even though their own report and assessments state that White Supremacists<\/a> have infiltrated Police Department<\/a> and could lead to tolerance of racism against black communities. And so when i hear your testimony, sergeant napir, our captain is a sergeant, i believe, are you there . . I am, maam. Sheriff. Yeah, sheriff. Im sorry. One of the things that concerns me, you know, you talk about your son, and im, you know, of course, concerned about a lot of things when it comes to policing in my community. Ut looki but i want to take a close look at something with that happened within your district. Last november, one of your officers was caught on camera c. Tackling a black teen in foster care who lives without arms or legs, sheriff. Okay . He was tackled by an officer under your leadership. He was also seen abusing another black teen who is merely filming the incident. That officer was not charged. Im wondering if thats the case why you havent been able to diversify your team or some of the concerns there. So i truly believe, you know, curious on your end, what kind of treatment did that officer get . Was he held accountable . Well, first, we presented that as we should, we put the officer on immediate leave and presented that matter to the county Attorneys Office<\/a> who made the decision to decline criminal charges. That was not so he was never charged, correct. That was a basis do you think that is also leading to people not wanting to work for police force that is constantly involved in crimin activity and assault it was deemed not to be criminal activity, maam. I understand. The office made that sheriff, the system is sbroekesbroe broken. I know you dont want to face the fact you and your son are in a system right now that is broken. I know youre deterring away from talking about it in that way, but, you know, going back to Sergeant Taylor<\/a>, one of the things that i know the black lives matter protesters in my district have been crying out s is, please invest more into our schools. Invest more into our communities and neighborhoods. One of the things that i hear from my Police Officers<\/a> is they werent trained to be nurses or social workers or Mental Health<\/a> care workers. They want to see more investment in that because that keeps them safe. And that keeps the community theyre supposed to be keeping safe, of course, safer. Can you talk a little bit about that, Sergeant Taylor<\/a> . Because i feel like what many of these protesters are out there demanding was to just shift in recognizing their lives matter and recognizing that they have to have investment in their quality of life which, again, makes the job of Law Enforcement<\/a>, obviously, much more at ease versus right now where theyre criminalizing communities of color. So, thank you for that question. I think that most Law Enforcement<\/a> officers would prefer having social workers in our jobs because we dont want to respond to a lot of these calls because were illprepared for it. I studied psychology and im still illprepared for it even with empathy and these ideologies about Law Enforcement<\/a> are accurate in a sense that we we have a problem with addressing addressing our internal problems, first off, and then we have a problem with how we respond to these calls because we want to put force in places that force is not necessary. This is what were taught. Were taught to be these warriors where we should be guardians. Then even with being a guardian, were ill prepared for that so when people talk about defunding the police, when they talk about reallocating these resources, its necessary because we need more conflict resolution. We have a lack of that. We have a lack of that in Law Enforcement<\/a>. We have a lack of deescalation. So when you bring in people that have these fouryear degrees, which most of us do not have, you bring those people in who have these specialties and these skills, it can offset us responding and shooting a 13yearold in the back who has autism. So its important that we have these people and these jobs, and most of the time, most Law Enforcement<\/a> arst officers will they dont want to necessarily respond on these calls, anyway, because were ill prepared for them. Thats exactly what im hearing. Thank you so much. Again, chairman, i will pray for Sergeant Taylor<\/a>. I know how extremely difficult it is for her to come up and speak the truth about this, you know, really so much respect for you today. Thank you so much. Thank you, congresswoman tlaib, thank you, Sergeant Taylor<\/a>. Clo in closing i want to thank not only Sergeant Taylor<\/a> but all our panelists today for their extraordinary participation. Michael german, Sergeant Taylor<\/a>, professor johnson, sheriff mark nap napier from arizona. Thank you for coming and participating so intelligently in this important conversation. The question of the neutrality and the fairness of Law Enforcement<\/a> all across america goes right to the question of our social contracts. You know, if you read any of the social contract theorists, john lock, thomas hobbs, russo, all of them said we enter into society because well be safer inside the social contract than outside of it which hobbs said was a state of nature, a state of war, and violence, nasty, brutish, short. We enter the social contract. We expect the police who we pay to protect us will act with neutrality and fairness and respect for everyone in the community. And we know that the vast majority of officers enter with that idea. So the infiltration of White Supremacists<\/a>, members, activists, ideas, and attitudes, is a threat to Public Security<\/a> and Public Safety<\/a> and is a threat to the reputation of the Law Enforcement<\/a> function which i think all of us agree that it is whether you consider it a few bad apples or a lot of bad apples but those bad apples can spoil the reputation of the whole barrel. So, we hope that the fbi will stand up and take credit for the things it is saying and doing to identify the problem and come up with a National Strategy<\/a> for making sure that we dont have that kind of infiltration and suffusion of white supremacist attitudes, ideas, and actions in Law Enforcement<\/a>. With that, without objection, all members will have five legislative days within which to submit additional written questions to the chair and well forward them to the witnesses for their prompt response. I ask all of our witnesses to please get it back as soon as you can. With that, i thank you, all, for your participation. The hearing is now adjourned. Congress is expected to be out of session for much of october. The senate meets today for legislative business but no votes are planned for the next couple of weeks. Majority leader mcconnell says they could meet later in october for a possible vote on Supreme Court<\/a> nominee amy coney barrett. Until then, work continues off the floor on her nomination, including Committee Meetings<\/a> and confirmation hearings. The house has no plans to meet for legislative business, but if theres an agreement on a new covid relief bill, members will get 24 hours notice for a vote, if its scheduled. Watch live coverage of the senate today at 4 30 p. M. Eastern on cspan2. Week nights this month on American History<\/a> tv were featuring the contenders. Our series that looks at 14 president ial candidates who lost the election but had a lasting effect on u. S. Politics. Tonight, author h. B. Brands on 19th century political figures henry clay, john c. Calhoun, and daniel webster. He describes why the three statesmen were critical to american politics between the war of 1812 and the compromise of 1850. Watch tonight beginning at 8 00 eastern. Enjoy American History<\/a> tv this week and every weekend on cspan3. Tonight on the communicators, tech freedom founder berin szoka and free press coceo Jessica Gonzalez<\/a> on tech issues that may play a role in campaign 2020. What the administration is trying to do here is narrow the protection for content moderation so that websites would to longer be protected if they tried to remove content that they thought was false or, perhaps, racist. Im no fan of big tech platforms and how they abused their workers and how they abused the privacy rights of their users, but, frankly, going after section 230 is not the right approach to the very real problems that were seeing with online platforms. Berin szoka and Jessica Gonzalez<\/a> tonight at 8 00 eastern on the communicators on cs n cspa cspan2. Join us later this week for the Vice President<\/a> ial debate. Kamala harris and mike pence are set to square off wednesday in salt lake city. Its due to start at 9 00 p. M. Eastern and you can watch it live on cspan. Next, a look at the role of Foreign Policy<\/a> in the president ial debates and the november election. The Carnegie Endowment<\/a> for International Peace<\/a> hosted this discussion held by videoconference. Does Foreign Policy<\/a> matter in a current president ial Election Year<\/a> or given the proximity of whats going to happen in several hours to a debate . Should Foreign Policy<\/a> matter . Will it matter . Or will this debate be so unconventional, so idiosyncratic, so loaded with hotbutton issues from the supr","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia803201.us.archive.org\/18\/items\/CSPAN3_20201005_172200_House_Hearing_on_White_Supremacy_Infiltrating_Police_Departments\/CSPAN3_20201005_172200_House_Hearing_on_White_Supremacy_Infiltrating_Police_Departments.thumbs\/CSPAN3_20201005_172200_House_Hearing_on_White_Supremacy_Infiltrating_Police_Departments_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240716T12:35:10+00:00"}