I think im a rush to get back to normalcy has caused us to again be unproductive in bringing about long term systemic changes that are actionable, that art satisfies and causes america to leave up to its creed and but ideals. We have the right ideals. Hi im Shelley Quinn author journalist and contributor to the Washington Post. Today were going to discuss the eventual christians and their vote. We have two great guests today and our first guest im happy to say is bishop tea de digs from Potters House in texas. Welcome bishop jakes. I just want to remind you that the last time i interviewed you we were on a tight budget and we dont have a makeup budget so i had to make you have read before the interview. And i still have the little makeup thing which is now in a box with my prized possessions. Thats a sweet of you, thats so sweet, i couldve used you today. You could use a little powder but laughs today i want to start out by asking you about three issues that are forefront in all of our minds. Racism, coronavirus, and Police Brutality. And all of those are affecting the black community more than anyone else in this community. I just want to find out whether you think that the White Christians are speaking up enough about this issue. I dont know about enough i dont know that anyone is picking up enough about it but i am pleased to see that there is more unification around some of these issues than there has been historically. Weve definitely got a long ways to go and im not implied that we are united on the issues as we should be. I think people in our country and people of faith have a tendency to beat knows blind which means theyre not infected whereas in the black community we have to be affected by it because we live with it every day but there is more buyin now than there has been historically and that is encouraging. You are talking about biden among the white evangelical christians . Yes i am. Im talking about if you look at the people who were protesting there were as many with out there as they were blacks and im not sure that they were all christians but they were all concerned. We did not see that diversity in the sixties that we are seeing today, and that is encouraging. I think the white until calls are trying to find their voice about this issue. Theyre a little uncomfortable when they Say Something theyre afraid of being criticized or saying something wrong no matter what you say you are going to be criticized in this polarized society by one side or the other. And ministers are trying to figure out how the engage the conversation at not lose their own constituency. Do you think that some black christians have given up on some White Christians, evangelical christians . Yes i think the divide between what christians and black christians is broader than it has ever been because its not that we dont agree about faith but whenever faith becomes too politicized it to the detriment of both parties and i think both sides have been politicized to a degree that it has created a further gulf that dr. King described 60 years ago as being the most divided our in the country. I think thats exacerbated in this current climate when everyone you said and have said you cant be a good christian and be silent. Yet there are so many evangelicals i know this from talking to people about this issue are afraid to speak up like is that really the bottom line for you that you cant be a good christian and stay silent . I think there is a mandate. The bible says jesus the script of god is upon man and preached to the broken heart and the wounds of the brokenhearted. I dont think you can see someone pleading across to the other side of the street and senior chris like having said that i do sympathize or empathize with White Christians who are trying to Say Something and really ended up sticking their put in their mouth and i have called some of them and encourage them to keep talking. Theres going to be criticism. Youre not gonna get it right the first time but were having a very difficult conversation thats several hundred years old. And i would rather you break the silence and Say Something wrong that not say anything at all and act like you dont see the innocent killings of our people that you dont see, that we cant go jogging, but you dont see that we are not safe in our homes. That he dont see george floyd screaming for his dead mother as he screams were his to act oblivious to that is at the end to desist everything crisis sued for so you might struggle but i think it ought to be done. And when you have these conversations with you this say to you . A lot of it is fear and a lot of it is not knowing how and a lot of it is not ever addressing it before and a lot of it is the privilege that black people havent enjoyed. We cannot as a black person get a achievement without understand how the White Community works but you can get a ph. D. And not to have the black Community Work so thats a luxury that is forcing people to have to study during the george floyd crisis, books on black history with the fastest selling books in the country because people were having to put up on something didnt know anything about, they did know anything about juneteenth, didnt know anything about the riding intel. Some didnt know anything about george floyd and those are things that have been taught in our schools or talked about in black circles nonblack circles and finally they are certain to be talked about today. When you talk about the division and certainly 11 00 is the most segregated hour on sunday. What do you think the differences between the rules of a black pastor and a white pastor today . Oh i think it is quite huge. We are expected to do things that white pastors arent expected to do because of the Civil Rights Movement back in the sixties was born out of the church. Because the first schools when our churches. Our churches have to be more than spiritual institutions. Them to be the hub of the community. They have to be engaged in the Public Square being a voice for the voiceless. They have to be so many more things than what white pastures are accustomed to. Do you have to be therapists and counselors and a whole lot of other things most of our heroic figures down history have come out of the whereas the White Community has a wide array of hero figures but up until president bubble we never had a president or we had pastors whether you were reverend Jesse Jackson or reverend al sharpton or reverend Frederick Douglass all the way back to those days they were always clergy. So the definition of what clergy means to us somewhat different. I want to quickly interject this as well. Most of us vote around the issues we are our important around our community we share fidelity with evangelicals on the conservative ideas and principles but we dont have the luxury to vote in a myopic way about the bit because what we dont share is the concern of the digital divide. The lack of housing, the lack of pay opportunities, the criminal justice system. The the blue on black crime, the Police Brutality are not things that are on the white clergys radar and finally they are starting to get on that radar but they havent been historically so we cant vote within myopic view of a few issues we have to look at the totality of the Human Experience and not just a couple of items. So lot of what you focus on is Economic Issues with your congregation. Economic, not, really, economic health, digital divide, lifestyle, issues bread and butter issues. Issues that affect the wellbeing of our community and our family and the many single mothers that are fighting for rights, who are paid less because of black and because their women. And they become the breadwinners for our families. We have a lot of problems in our community that we have to deal with and its not always social i dont care how wealthy you are, if youre driving down the street and blue lights go off behind you, your heart races because youre not sure amongst the many Wonderful Police officers that we have. I actually passed the chief of police a pastor, lots of Police Officers go to my church. I know there are a lot of great Police Officers. But the misnomer today is that if you criticize the few who are not going well, then you dont support the blue. Everybody has to choose a side. When in reality you can support a great Police Officers and still hold other Police Officers accountable, like we do doctors, like we do anything else. But this climate were in right now, we have lost our ability to reason together and to come to compromise and to understand the saying one thing does not negate the other. How do you feel about the slogans all lives matter and blew lives matter . Let me respond to it like this. We had Breast Cancer month, he didnt say anything about alzheimers. When a house is on fire, you dont complain to the firemen because he didnt stop at every house. You go to the house thats on fire and ill black and brown houses are on fire, and a statement black lives matter does not mean it all white lives do not matter. It absolutely does not mean that. But these does mean that these are the lines that are lives that are disproportionately lit on fire. Its not only about Police Brutality, but by the covid virus. When you say black lives matter, its not just about brutality, its about education, its about opportunities, its about health issues, it covers the whole gamut of things were we have been demoralized. Its about the high rate of death of women our women when they have children, there are so many areas, ands almost every area it is reinforce that we should get the same medical, care same education, it does ask the question dewy matter . Is there anything that the black lives Matter Movement is doing that you think isnt wise . Are they getting it wrong right most the time . First of all, i think this is gone far beyond the movement. The organization has turned into a movement the, organization is the movement is something completely different. The slogan is taken on all over the world until you have people all over the world in europe, chanting black lives matter. So im not saying its all connected to the organization. I think what has taken place is that many people have come to the reality that they want to be part of history the says black lives do matter. I appreciate that, i support, that i endorse the Overall Concept black lives matter. And apart from the organization and its values, i think it it has taken on a life of its own. However, i dont think that we can win this battle just by protests. At some point, protests have to convert to the change of policy and i think were at that point right now and we have to move away and disavow any and all violence. I think its a destruction from the overall message that were trying to make and we need to take our violence in turn it into votes and on every level of government vote for the people who get and understand that we are not willing to live with these abnormalities and these discrepancies in our care and our safety and our wellbeing. Anytime you not safe in your own home, Breonna Taylor laying in her own bed. Anytime you cant go jogging, that is too much to tell us to be quiet about. We cannot be quiet about not beyond. That is cannot be quiet about. That what has donald trump done right on the black lives matter issue . And what do you think the role is of a president during the time like this . I dont know what hes done right about the black lives matter issue. I will give credit to the criminal justice drives that have been made, i think those were important strides that it would be made and a step in the right direction. I hope that the states will follow the federal example because the vast majority of African Americans are not in prisons. I do tip my hat to that, i do think that opportunity zones was well intended i think we have to work harder to make sure that it does what it was intended to do and upgrading the standards of the community. As far as i know, he has avoided supporting black lives matter in any way and i wish that was different. I am no longer looking to the white house to fix this issue. I think that the people on the streets of america, we the people, have to rise up and reshape our country and our World Without just waiting for this missilelike figure to come in and fix all the problems that exist in america today. You have a foundation and you have a plan can you tell us about that . Yes i start of the tv Jake Foundation and i started it because i was concerned about housing. Im concerned because black, white and brown people often cannot afford to live in the cities that they serve. We clap for them as First Responders during covid19, give them flowers at our church, we did all sorts of things that are wonderful to do, but what they cant afford to live in our cities, thats a problem. So the tv Jakes Foundation is handling tackling the. Were also tackling divisional divide looking a programs for underserved communities. We expected have 500s tour enroll students in rolling, and our program trying to close the digital divide. What black children have been exposed to they have done well, whether its basketball, whether its music, whether its preaching. Those things they have been exposed to, they have become. They have not been exposed to wall street. They have not been exposed to silicon valley, they have not been exposed to the possibilities that people like them could have a place at the table and the tv Jakes Foundation is committed to working that out on jobs, homes, housing and closing the digital divide. You mentioned that you didnt think this should be in the hands of the white house anymore. Have you reached out to President Trump at all . I know you have advised the last three president s and youve had a very Good Relationship with that. Do you have a relationship with President Trump . I have never met him. Ive absolutely never madam. Let me be clear. I am not absolving him of his responsibility and theres a lot that he could do. And there is a lot that he is said and done to make it more difficult to move it forward and ahead in the areas of healing some of the disparities that exist in our community. Im not absolving him from that at all. Im just staring around the fact that if we dont get the response that we would like from the white house at the level we would like to get, that this still doesnt mean that we cant move forward amongst ourselves. You know, theres a recent comment that was made by eric ma taxes who is a rightwing evangelical. He tweeted that jesus was white and it caused a big stir and then they were all these portraits of people drawn black jesus and brown jesus and white jesus. Its quite clear that jesus was probably not a blue eyed blonde and there of been a lot of columns about that. How does does that, im sure youve heard this but what do you think about . You need to think about him in his color. . I dont think about cheeses in terms of color. I think its an awful juvenile statement to make one way or another. As a christian, the fact that he died for us and shared his blood for us, it wasnt about his skin, it was about his blood. And secondly, the bible is very clear about his background and his ethnicity and his julian stick background is quite clear according to scriptures. So this american argument where we see everything in black and white and argue back and forth about it means that we do it at the disregard of what the scriptures are very clear about. So when you pray, you dont think color when you prodigies us . I dont think color matters if you have a who the emt is. I dont think if youre your operating on what your doctor is. I think its a very juvenile conversation but i understand that it comes from a place where religion has been complicit in slavery, it has been complacent in jim crow, it has been complacent in White Supremacy and i think that the pushback from the bloc community where they want to see a black jesus is not really not about jesus, its defiance about the against the fact god only cares about white people. I just want to ask you one last question about the coronavirus. How has it affected your church, the people in your congregation . Youve said that its easier to wear a mask than a ventilator and yet the president who has mocked people who wear masks and a large group of many white evangelical christians who dont believe in Wearing Masks. What is your view on that . Well let me tell you. As a passer, regardless of my collar, we are the people who bury the people that you report about. So they are numbers to, you but they are bodies to us. We are the ones who answer the phones when their families are screening. This virus is real, its serious, its dangerous and i dont think that we have handled a properly and i dont think of weve taken it seriously enough. I had a week or 13 days where i didnt have a day go by where somebody didnt die. One day had three people in the same day. So when you deal with those families firsthand and those people who can hold our hands other mothers of husbands of their loved ones and, sometimes three or four in the family disproportionately affecting black and brown people as well as white people, its an atrocity for us, it is been very very painful. Its an atrocity how we handle, it is being very painful to watch the needless deaths of people went. When you consider how much attention we gave to 9 11 and rightfully so, with 3000 people. And yet wi