In that airplane and work. That was that. Did you this is something i asked other people about who worked on the project did you ever catch any flak afterwards . A lot of people were really upset about the atomic bomb. Did any buddy ever give you about what you did . Not too much. If you are involved like i was and they know it, they are more impressed with that. Besides, its amazing how many people havent the atomic bomb. Nagasaki, thats another time. You dont get too much of that. The thing i get mostly is what we are doing here. People ask about it. For me, theres no question about it. It was a strange series of circumstances. I was just standing at the right place at the right time every damn time, and i ended up in this thing. So. Youre watching American History tv all weekend, every weekend and on holidays to only on cspan 3. Weeknights this month were featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan 3. The u. S. Capital has been home to the house and senate since 1800 but its their home districts in states that send members to washington d. C. On tuesday, cspan cities tour takes a look at pivotal politicians as we travel the nation in search of their stories. Watch tuesday night, beginning at 8 00 eastern. Enjoy American History tv, this week and every weekend on cspan 3. August 9th marks 75 years since the United States dropped a second atomic bomb on japan, devastating the city of nagasaki three days after the atomic bomb on hiroshima. The emperor announced Unconditional Surrender on august 15th with the formal ceremonies taking place in september 2nd thereby ending world war ii. American history tv on cspan washington general were live that day to examine Harry Trumans decision to use that women in the legacy those atomic attacks. Up here up next well hear from rich frank the offer of downfall the end of the Imperial Japanese empire. Hes fought on august, sixth 1945 a top u. S. Army air force dropped an atomic bomb on nagasaki, Communications Industrial and center of in credible austin uniform now swiftly learned that man had a new weapon with struck destructiveness a weapon boarding on the absolute. In the blast, thousands died instantly. 70,000 people were killed or listed as missing. 140,000 people were missing. Of these, 43,000 were badly hurt. The city was unbelievably crushed. Over 60,000 buildings were demolished. The desolate domains were described his ashes. Man with his newfound olives at fashion an instrument of annihilation. Implications of this extraordinary new bomber frightening to everybody. When you think that bomb we drop down . Japan oh isnt it terrible all those people killed. Three days later, another b 29th dropped in a prove bomb on the support of nagasaki, and industrialized city posting the best natural harbor and extensive naval facilities. This bomb exploding over the north factory district it destroyed 39 of all the buildings standing. The japanese describe are bleak, mutilated city as a graveyard without a teams own standing. These two terrifying blows were struck japan only after profound consideration of all the humans involved. The atomic bombs were dropped to end the war and they did and the war quickly. Richard frank is author of downfall the end of the Imperial Japanese empire here to talk us talk to us further about the 75th anniversary the dropping of the atomic bomb on japan. To frank thank you for joining us thank you for having me. In that last clip that we just heard military phone from 1946 said pretty definitively that the atomic bombs were dropped to end the war quickly and they did and the war quickly first of all was this right decision to make . And the short answer is yes and yes. But they were dropped overwhelmingly to end the war as quickly as policy possibly save lives a both japanese americans. One thing i think its really critical that we get to in the start is to understand the context of this. Two basic principles that we have to fall. Basically the asia pacific war which ran from 37 to 45 resulted in the death conservative count of 19 million lives. And of that number, the number of japanese people who died was maybe 1. 2 million, about 25 were due to the atomic bomb. More than that were due to solving intervention in 1945 of august. Every japanese non combatant who died between 17 and theyre overwhelmingly other agents about 12 million of them are chinese. By the summer of 1945 most of the 17 or 18 million non combatants or already dead. They were dying at a rate of about eight to 14,000 a day. Thats the context in which all this takes place. Its important that we not overlook, diminish or dehumanizes the japanese its equally important that we in total the total context of this and primarily not japanese. As we look back on the 75th anniversary of the dropping of the atomic bomb on here and nagasaki. We will take your calls. After a couple of minutes of conversation will put the phone numbers on the screen now. 2 02 seven four eight 8000 is your number for the eastern time zones. Mountain west to a two seven four eight 8001. We have to separate some lines for this. Richard frank more perspective here. How widespread in 1945 was the support for president truman and his decision to use atomic weapons . Has that changed much overtime . The support for truman in 45 and cities thereafter as was extremely high. Looking at the numbers ive seen punching up over 80 . Its changed over the years because the narratives that have been employed over the narrative over the years have changed. One of the things that really concerns me about this is that its very controversial but i find it is astonishing that this conversation takes place in lieu of the atomic bomb. What is conspicuous about that discussion that we never talk about the other alternatives are. When you actually get down and starting to look at the cost of the alternatives, you understand why mr. Truman in his decision didnt make a good choice, he was looking at choices that were astonishingly awful to horrendously horrific he simply chose the least abhorrent choice of these events. So this is the 75th anniversary of the nagasaki bombing. The second bombing august six the first one in hiroshima. Richard frank, what was the difference between those three days and what the Truman Administration was looking at . Destruction in hiroshima, what made them decide to drop a second bomb three days later . While there was no specific decision for a second. Bomb mr. Truman, and he is the authorization order released ivan tinian to start dropping bombs and keep dropping bombs. There was no father check back. When we talk about the two bombs, this is another aspect of this controversy i think the people dont understand. The problem that the notion on, that one bomb wouldve done it demonstration is this. You have to look at the japanese side of. It their reaction to it, that they had an Atomic Bomb Program that had educated the top levels of japanese leadership and producing visionary materials is stupendous lee difficult. So when news of hiroshima came, and atomic bomb the inter Imperial Army army conceives Imperial Navy took a track that they may have one bomb, they can have that many a copy that powerful. Basically what the japanese leadership was looking at, it was not the fear of one bomb, it was that the arsenal had an arsenal of powerful bombs. And thats exactly what the nagasaki bonded. It convinced the top leadership that the u. S. Didnt simply have one bomb, they had an arsenal of atomic bombs. General a nominee who was the warm minister, he had been animate for considering frictions continuing the war after the hiroshima bomb. He was going around to telling the leadership and thats an amazing argument he had for making a war. How far was the u. S. At the time of dropping the bars for planning invasion of japan . The main island of japan. Thats a very good question and very different from whats usually presented. There had been a plane to start invading japan november 1st operational level. Mr. Truman had approved that on june 18th 1945. At the time, he was quite reluctant but he was presented a scenario that would have overwhelming superiority. Therefore american casualties would be exceptional, acceptable not pleasant but acceptable. What we know now decades after the war the radio intelligence i discovered the japanese had exactly anticipated that the american evasion would take place there there is this huge buildup of ground and air force, about 10,000 air force half of the kamikaze, 7000 troops. So instead of us going into superiority, wed be facing 700,000 japanese. And we now know also the a senior naval officer had never wanted to invade japan and he been biding his time to bring over showdown over whether an invasion should take place, by the 9th of august 1945 with the intelligence he was prepared to bring on this huge showdown over whether should be any invasion of japan. Only the japanese surrender cut that off before reached the level of mr. Toobin having another. Review tom from Richmond Virginia along with were here with Richard Frank talking with the 75th anniversary of the atomic bomb on hiroshima. I tom yeah good morning. Im age 60 and i remember the howards in lectures of my college years. How history is being reridden so much right now with people with agendas. Im hearing on talk radio that the only reason, progressive talk radio that, is the only reason we bombed japan was because they were not europeans. And other words, they were people of color. Thats nonsense because we bomb dresden over in germany. That was a purpose of demoralizing the german people for them to surrender. Its unfortunate what happened with the dropping of the two bombs. It did open up a pandoras box but on the other hand, it saved millions of japanese lives that wouldve been caught in the cross fire as well as american lives and casualties. Am i wrong on that professor . No. Basically have to bear in mind that right up until the end, it was assumed bombs were gonna be used against germany. Turned out from a they didnt have bombs ready to be used against the germans. German surrendered may in the first bomb which was a test bomb detonated in july 1945. Let me come back again to a base point. Its not that the argument against advancing that we dont care about the japanese or the japanese who died. I was very graphic about that in my book. What ive been going over these many years now is the fact that our narratives that weve been using simply talk about japanese deaths, the fact the japanese were asians, they dont mention that we were in the war because we wouldnt abandon china. The American People at that time or reading the New York Times, day by day through the whole war, that they were well aware of how horrific the war was in asia. We completely blotted that out and thats why those narratives are so powerful because people simply dont realize how horrific the Asian Pacific or was. Which you frank how heads japanese textbooks a portrayed the war has had a house that changed over the years . Thats a complex cant question. The larger question, the larger issue i think for japan was the whole period of world war ii was an area that was not really forthrightly discussed and is still not forthrightly discussed. There clearly is a tendency in japan and i can understand this to present them as the greatest victims of the war. Then dealing with historians and people from other asian nations, you really get a full flavor of how infuriating that makes people in china and elsewhere. I was sitting in a conference once, with peoples from the north of china that presentation was made, very much along the typical lines of usual presentation. I see them going from bafflement to fury as he realizes it this narrative entirely omits, does not count it does not treat chinese, vietnamese, indonesians, koreans ensuring a common humanity with japanese civilians in two cities. I may add further to the point i made our alluded to further basically when the soviet union enters the war, according to john our miss classic book about the occupation of japan, they captured between 1. 6 and 1. 7 japanese nationals in manchuria. When the repatriation pipes process was over, they only rip turned 1. 2 million. That says between 400 500,000 japanese either died or disappeared and soviet captivity. We know from soviet archives, about 60,000 of them are soviet soldiers. I mean is it a lot of japanese noncombat and died in soviet captivity after being captured. Those are higher than the to the fatalities from the two atomic bombs combined. Good morning i. Just want to add my voice. Not sure what has been discussed earlier. My father who barely survived the war in europe was being prepared to transfer to japan. Wouldve eliminated my brothers life after that. And many other mens lives as well. It wouldve been criminal when you have everything up here wouldve been criminal for treatment not to drop that bomb. Hundreds of thousands of chinese net massacred in a horrible way. There was the russian threat that wouldve taken japanese territory and greatly complicated the poor post war era. There are so many reasons why truman had to do that. What was the alternative i heard the general sitting in the blockade jen japan until they were gave up. Could you dress those points please . Richard frank thats really excellent point. On the american side, there was basically an unstable compromise between the army and navy over the strategy to end the war and Unconditional Surrender. The army thought the critical issue is time now for they advocated an invasion because they thought invasion was a swift to sway to win the war. The navy one of the fundamental premises of that study was that invading the japanese home islands would in make politically unacceptable casualties. What does it mention in these discussions as it should and this was basically the policy of all the navys policies lined up as the alternative was wrong, its back to the very basic point of counting all the death and army. The blockade was bluntly aimed at ending the war by starving millions of japanese, mostly non combatants. Thats what the blockade was. About interview the limited power of conventional one minutes of what we have today, the blockade was actually the most ruthless strategy. That was the direction we were going in august 1945. Because if the invasion of key issue is off, then we do blockade, then we do try to kill millions of japanese non combatants. By the way, those agents who are not japanese, who are dying every single day, add their deaths on top of the japanese death. The death tolls for these alternatives when you actually sit down and contemplate them is sickening in mindboggling. We have glen from West Virginia on the line. West virginia lowland. Good morning. Cspan mr. Frank. And the son of an okinawa veteran who is trained for the invasion in japan of course they never had a go because president truman are the common sense to do what he did. For those who criticize truman alltime my dads. It every one of those critics go to their families of people, american g eyes were saved from invading japan a certain death and tell them the truman did the wrong thing. I know you dont have the guts to do that. Thank you mr. Frank for ebooks. Its very informative. Thank you for calling. Richard frank has history been fair to president truman regarding his decision . Let me add another dimension to this. Mr. Truman, he famously said he didnt lose any sleep over the decision. Various comments like. That and if you really go through everything, he actually said, in his mind he had in in his into compartments. One compartment was didnt make the best decision of what was presented . He always believed if you really understood all the alternatives, he made what secretary stints in the least abhorrent choice. As bad as the bombs were in, the alternatives were actually worse. At a personal level, truman was knack never indifferent to the deaths of the japanese. In fact very shortly after, hiroshima in intercepted this message when the Japanese Navy reported 140,000 japanese it died out here if seema. Mr. Truman was clearly reading the and he says he she may killed 140,000 people. And all those kids and. His various other comments or a saying it was horrendous, the consequences of his decision. The decision may be unripened the consequences were horrendous. And he realized that he felt very deeply. Once, again when you deal with people from other asian nations who are trapped in the japanese empire, americans were saying were two bombs necessary the common common. Is why only . Two from their perspective, the death rate was so incomparable between the japanese and these other peoples, they find the american struggle to be fascinating. With your frank, a little bit more of the history of the end of the war in the pacific 1945. So here shame shame acts on august six, on august 9th as we talked about the, u. S. Chalked and up tonic bowman nagasaki. Same day, the soviets declare war on japan in nigeria. Six days go by, the impair upper announces japans Unconditional Surrender. What happened . Walk us through those six days to get the emperor to the point of surrender. Well a little context. Hear what you have to understand is a to get japan to surrender was really two steps. Someone with legitimate authority had to decide that japan as a nation with. Surrender and japans armed forces had to comply with that surrender. Neither one of those steps was a certainty through most of 1945. Now the emperor makes a critical decision. August of 1945 talks to the foreign minister nieces the warmest and now. This is before this is after here shown hiroshima because before soviet intervention. He had a lost faith to meet the invasion and the concern about the japanese people reaching revolutionary state sometime in the fall. These all played into his mind. He announces that his decision before the inner circle of leadership in the Early Morning hours of august 10th. We have the dire entry of a general in quality when he learns of the emperors decision and one of the author other officers comes to and says, i dont think the overseas commander will comply with the emperors decision. And right after the, this they send messages to a tokyo saying we will not comply with the order by the emperor. And theres more back and forth between the emperor and tokyo. They first the first serious message about e