My parents lived in metropolis, illinois, which was across the river from paducah. Paducah was the closest hospital. I grew up in metropolis, illinois. If you could tell us a little bit about your upbringing and if you see anything in the way that you are raised, the family that you are from that may have caused you to become involved in the movement. Were ofow my parents modest means. Both of them were from farm families that had come over from germany and were , and to get land here every German Family had a plot of 80 acres. Im not quite sure how that where my but thats a farm,ents lived, on and both of my parents grew up on a farm. My mom was able to go to Southern IllinoisTeachers College and became a teacher. He farmed, and he also had a furniture store, so we lived the town was very small. 6000 people, and it is still 6000 people. Metropolis is just, you know, a farm town and very, very far away from urban centers. Its, like, halfway between st. Louis and memphis, so the big like,s paducah, which is, 36,000. I went to grade school and high school there. My parents were involved and active in the church. Perhaps one of the things that influenced me most was that we had a presbyterian minister who at some point when i was in high school gave me a copy of the book the wall , and it by and grade in me an amazing revelation to braden. Yy anne my family did not talk about politics. They talked about morals and church and those with the things that guided them, but this book was eyeopening in terms of the things that were happening. What kinds of things did braden talk about in that book . Ms. Tillow she told the story of inequality in louisville, kentucky, and how they had purchased a home for an africanamerican family because the sellers would not sell it to them, so they purchased the home , and that brought this terrible backlash. Everyone knows the story, that , carl andwas bombed carl wentarrested, to prison for sedition, trying to overthrow the state of verycky, but anne wrote well. She approached it from someone who did not understand any of these things at all, i could understand, and very moving about inequality and the need to stand up against what was wrong, a big influence on me, and that was before i graduated. I graduated from high school in 1960. What was your immediate world around you there in metropolis as far as the demographics, as far as equality . What did you see around you, and how did that compare to what you were reading . Ms. Tillow i remember when the grade schools were integrated there when i was in grade school. I remember people being very, very upset about that happening, but for a while and then it seemed that that was over, but of course, the africanamerican teachers lost their jobs. I dont know when they were later hired. Im sure that some point that was changed, too. ,he high school was integrated so, you know, it was not i dont think it was like the deep south, but there was certainly prejudice there. I can remember nominating a young africanamerican to be the head of the what was it . Some girls club in high school, and the teacher telling me know, we werent ready for that the teacher telling me no, we werent ready for that. That was before you would have read the book or i dont know. I cannot remember that. This is probably a difficult question, but do you remember your first sort of overt act . Im not sure exactly which one was first. I went to the university of timeois then, and by that i joined the naacp away from metropolis, which was easier to do, you know . I remember my first picket line was at the university of illinois against some store that would not hire africanamericans, and i remember being very frightened, but believing it was right and i was going to do it, and i remember what my sign said. I did not write it, but someone had given me a sign that said, in the land of lincoln, kin. Mination is stin not too much happened. We were kind of paraded on the picket line, but things by that time were beginning to happen in the country. I just went to the picket lines and learned. We would have reports from people coming from the south, you know, who would speak at the meetings and tell some of the stories, and, you know, the movement was beginning to have impact all across the country, asin champaign, illinois well. Were there other ways you were getting your news . What was happening . You talked about students visiting. Ms. Tillow well, depending on in 1962 in the summer of 1962, i was back at metropolis and preparing to go yearana on a junior abroad, which i went in 1962, but during the summer before then, i went with the local because there were demonstrations in cairo, which was about 40 miles away, and we know, we went to the court hearings. It was a segregated courtroom. Just amazed atg the courage of these people. Mary mccollum was one of the people who was there. Side, abeen cut on her during one of the demonstrations. People were facing such brutality and were so strong. You know, that was it about the Civil Rights Movement, is that by thesed inspiration other people who you admired so, and who were really risking everything to stand up for what they believe in, so that had a great impact on me during that summer. Then i went to ghana, and that was different. Right. Ms. Tillow w. E. B. Dubois was at emeritus he got a Honorary Degree there. He had gone there to work on his panafrican encyclopedia, i think it was, and of course, i didnt know who he was and all of that. Students said you dont know . He american. American. You dont know . I became aware of the ignorance and the holes in our Education System that here was someone so highly regarded around the world and i had never heard i went to the ceremony where he was given that Honorary Degree, and. E was there with his wife i learned a lot in africa. Conor cruise obrien was the chancellor of the university, and he had written to katanga and back, and all of that, so i was becoming aware of the u. S. And by the world time i came back, which was in 1963, 2 things happened on my way back. Died that two boys died in august of 1963 and the march on washington. The Civil Rights Movement was in full blossoming. You arrived back after the march . Right, at the end of august, right afterward, yeah. Ofent back to the university illinois, but somewhere along the way, i met john lewis, who came to the university of illinois. Im not sure which year that was earlier, was 1963 or before 1962, but was very impressed. Again, the people who were active in that movement were so abouting and compelling what it meant and the value of this cause and this humanity. I was very moved by him. He had a lot of hair then, too. Where the students following what was going on in the u. S. . Ms. Tillow yes, they were. Of course, that was also the time of the missile crisis, which they were all asking me why. Thiswhy, you know, all danger of nuclear war, why is this happening . I cannot remember a lot of discussions about the Civil Rights Movement, but they wanted to know why i had never heard of w e need to voice w. E. B. Dubois. Campus inget back to 1963. Naacpllow right, and my chapter decided to send a delegation to atlanta during the i remembereak, and that we were going to go picket lebs. I dont even know what it was. I think it was a chain of restaurants in atlanta. We were going to go and report back, etc. I went with some others from there. As a result of that visit where withember a discussion prexy hall from philly. She spoke. Jim foreman. Lots of other people. I made the decision that that was what i wanted to do. I could not stay in school. I had to go and help. Not that i knew what to do, but thats how compelling the movement was. I remember we went to at the time,and there were demonstrations over was a, and hattiesburg very oppressive, violent place. When we were there, bob moses had been in jail, and there was a man also in jail from the it was a him in segregated jail and they put him prisoners andite of course they told him he was involved with the civil rights so he was really badly beaten, he could hardly be recognized as a human being. We stayed with a family there in police, we and the picketed at the courthouse where they were trying to register and in militaryarched like they the street were meeting the enemy and i remember a gigantic meeting there and hattiesburg with hundreds and hundreds of people, so there was this stark comparison between this militarized opposition and a whoence and these people e not afraid, a kind of that was very inspiring, they gave each other courage and they were not afraid. They had us in their homes, they were under threats of violence. That was the area where goodman and cheney were killed not long after that. Peopleere hundreds of and you could feel that, you know, something was moving and shaking and turning in was not to be put back, in spite of the violent opposition that it faced. You identify [indiscernible] how did you see yourself as you got into the deeper south . Ms. Tillow i guess i did. I dont know. [laughter] a sort of betwixt and between. Having been born in kentucky, i claimed kentucky as where i was born. As he got into a place like hattiesburg, how did that compare to what you had seen growing up . Ms. Tillow that was much there was no movement in metropolis. Probably,y caro, could have vied with hattiesburg for the brutality of the response to the movement in that was Southern Illinois. As a not see metropolis movement there, really. So im not sure. I did not know any white people in hattiesburg other than the people that were in the movement. Went there over school break but decided ms. Tillow i would go back, yeah. Did. Is what i wish people went with the flow at the time, you know . We were young and i certainly did not have any particular skills to contribute, just myself, just going down and trying to be there and learn from other people and try to help in whatever way that i could. How did you find an assignment or what you were going to do . Ms. Tillow i was with a group that went to these different places, we went to chapel hill and we went to tuskegee, where the freedomeparing schools that frick went to happen that were going to happen in 1964. We kind of went to displays in that place, chapel hill there was a student conference and i was at highlander several times, which is where i bet walter where i met walter. At a workshop . Do you remember the circumstances . Ms. Tillow i guess it was a workshop. By that time, i was working with a group called the Abolition Committee for full employment, which is working with miners in Eastern Kentucky and the people discussed theand situation. I remember Jim Dabrowski being there. I met carl and anne. Mentors to ally of the young people that were coming through the south. The southern patriot, which was their newspaper, and their scales and their encouragement skills and their encouragement. They were a tremendous force in the rebuilding of the Civil Rights Movement from the earlier 1930s, where the southern conference for Human Welfare and i think there was a youth group and they bridged the gap and kind of reconnected it in that period. How did you, as young people, look at the earlier generations of activists . Ms. Tillow we had to learn about it because those of us who id not come from, you know came from the farm, i did not know about anything. So we had to learn. Reading. Anne had us what did you read . Ms. Tillow lets see, what did i read . A century of struggle. We bet a lot of stuff about the hue act. The was strong about impact of communism and its ability to flatten the progress in the country. With what he had been through and thatll story that whole story about the sedition charge, carl was very strong, they were the big influence on sncc, the organization would not refuse to be anticommunist, refused to into that kind of liberal communism of hubert humphrey. [laughter] so the organization you were working with, what were they primarily working on . Ms. Tillow at the time, i guess the reason i was attracted to it, there was an increasing theion about Economic Economic situation and how important that was in terms of equality, that public would not end the inequality because there was an economic base to it, and i learned that too, but i was persuaded by that and there was , aroup that was organizing group of coal miners in eastern revivey who had tried to nion and they had on aarrested and jailed charge of conspiracy. There was a legal case and there was kind of a movement around it and i went there to help, i put called iper think it was called kentucky justice. We worked on i remember i was there, we marched on frank for frankfurt with the people in 4e we bill, there was a march jobs and freedom and that was march 5, 1964. Report the contention from the coalfields of appalachia and joined up with the other people. People,is one of the ,omeone who gets left out often especially the much in washington, the fact that the economic peace from the beginning was thought of as a part of this civil rights goal. It sounds like you learned that early on. Ms. Tillow i remember, there was a workshop at highlander. Highlander had been had participated in the earlier dates in the education of those trying to organize workers in the south and trying to organize those agricultural movements, black and white together. So we had a conference during this sncc era on unions. We had someone from the united electrical workers who came down and talked with thousand we had talkedon about with us and we had a discussion about what role unions should play in terms of trying to propel justice and equality. , you are interest ms. Tillow i did, yeah. Did youyou what year and walter meet . Ms. Tillow 1964. How it interested in works with a couple in the movement, especially when there is so much work to be done and you might be pulled to work in different places at different times. How did that work for you . Ms. Tillow oh. [laughter] ont know, we managed it managed to find a way to put it together. 1966, a lot of people were leaving sncc, so walter worked on mississippi 1964om Democratic Party in and 1966, i think we went to work for the electrical workers union, both of us. They sent me one place and him another. Him to detroit and be to pittsburgh. [laughter] it still wasnt together. Time, iat period of think people didnt know exactly what to do in the south. There were Different Things to 1964. , from up in terms of as sncc started , but it sounds like you were already focused on ms. Tillow i was working in of 1964,ucky, for all basically. Would you catch up and see each other every so often . Ms. Tillow yeah, i wasnt so far away. [laughter] union, how washe that experience . Ms. Tillow that was an experience. [laughter] that was another thing to learn. I worked in northern pennsylvania on a union drive eventually we left the ue and i went to work 1969 41199 for 1199, a civilrights related union for hospital workers. Thatresting thing union was basically a Progressive Union and was built among africanamerican workers in the Service Workers in new york, dietary housekeeping, nursing assistants. We worked on establishing a where itpennsylvania was not majority black situation and amazingly enough, we found we were able to build a union, even in a even in vast majority white hospitals. Not pittsburgh, but the first one we won was in lewistown, which was almost all white and campaign against the employer that this was a black union and all of that was happening. That was an interesting experience. We were able to build the union pennsylvania. In areas ofe rural pennsylvania are in terms of [indiscernible] ms. Tillow i dont know. [laughter] i worked in built very, very organized the registered nurses and the whole hospital, that was one of the early ones. You know, that was mercy hospital. They campaigned against the union by saying that the nurses are professionals and we have worked hard to come away from ckers andled coal cra that made the nurses livid because their fathers had sent them to Nursing School on coal miner salaries. Butler ir and then we won there and then butler, i cant think of the other towns. Spengler, huntington, washington. Washington, pennsylvania. Hospitals were in not big cities, but more rural areas where we were part of the union and the rest of the union was africanamerican, baltimore was one of the first outside of new lorettay, i remember king went there and help the campaign and Johns Hopkins was organized into 1199, that was probably 1969 or 1970. There was an 1199 campaign in Charleston South Carolina charleston, south carolina. Around the same time or a little bit earlier than that, they were not able to win Union Recognition but it was a huge battle, but they didnt break it down, there was some kind of a that they would allow the union to collect use or build the it didnt basis for establishing a union in the south and it is still unorganized. Of course, kentucky, hospital workers are almost all unorganized. It is very hard. To do that. In the southern states. Offcamera, we were talking about the importance of highlander, it being and a remote place and how people got around in those days. Ms. Tillow high later, it wasnt hi vander, it was in knoxville. , it was iner knoxville. Where it was burned down, i think that was tennessee. It was in a big house in knoxville at the time when we were going. There, but ien think newmarket or somewhere. I have been back i went back because my friend who i worked with on singlepayer is from tennessee and he invited us back. We went to a play about miles morton and don west, that was and were near that area went to the grave of miles where the school had originally been. I have a picture of walter and me with the Historical Marker there. Yeah, interesting. The work you are doing with the nurses union, which you clearly saw as a civilrights activity, did the nurses see it that way . Or the hospital workers . Door allies on working on these campaign . Of the other civilrights organizations support you or not . Ms. Tillow in pittsburgh, when we first started in 1969, the other unions were not so itic because here was was a new yorkunion and we had organized a petition from some hospital workers to ask them to come help us and they were all theyed about coming, so came and put