Bycongress in 2009 conducted the smithsonian museum, the american folklife museum, and the Southern Oral History Program at the university of North Carolina chapel hill. Fathermy parents and my was born and raised on the farm. That was his life. That is what he loved to do. The first five children were. Orn that first five were very young when he died. Jones, dad, ernest married my mother and had more children. Us my dad raised all 10 of because he was very, very young when that dad got killed. Was ly, what he did she was very disciplined he was very disciplined. He had a seventh grade education, mom had a seventh grade education, but very brilliant people. Had,f the ambitions they and they gave us as kids. Two goals for us. He wanted all of us to be educated and to see all 10 of us in heaven. He wanted us to be committed to church, hard work. I had the pleasure of going to school all the way through elementary, all the way through high school, and i never missed a day. Us on mean and tough on the school, so we had to get up at 4 00 in the morning, milk the cows, feed the pigs, and do all of that. Walk one mile from the house to the dirt road where the bus came 6 45. Catch the bus at everybody, theto boys and the girls the same way. We had the fortune of understanding work very early and going to school very early. Said. S kind of what dad he said when he bought his first acre of land, he was 13 years old. He paid 1. 25. It took him six months to make that. So the farm we grew up on was mcennona, butn he added to the acreage. We farm to cotton we farm to farmed corn we cotton. He created a large piece of the farm. We had berries and all of that. Made from the we sale of fruit and vegetables is what he used to farm the cotton, corn. What was the nature of the town in those days . James when i was born, there were a lot of folks there. It has never been an incorporated town. It was just a village. When i grew up, two or 300 kids maybe. What happened is most of the migrated,up with me, took off, went to detroit, dallas, texas, houston, texas, all of those places, looking for work. We were the only black farm group in willis phil willisville. All the other kids worked on , and that was hard, because they were not allowed to go to school. They came to school maybe around thanksgiving, but by march they had to come back to work. A lot of them did not have the opportunity i had to go to school from grade one through high school. Interviewer how did your father manage the farm without all that extra help that would have been there if he had not sent you to school . Enough,ll of us was big the older sisters and brothers, there were older kids who dropped out of school and just kind of wondered. He would get those kids and bring them back and they would work there with us. He would pay them at the end of the day. They did not own they worked on the farms that they did not own. A lot of the times the problem with that system was they never made enough money and it never worked hard enough to pay off debt. Would happen to come over when the state fair was taking place and would say, come here and i will give you work so you have a few bucks to go to the fair. Everybody wanted to go to the fair, but they did not have any money. They were gracious to come over and work at our place as well. Interviewer tell me about church. Where are active in the naacp were they active in the dim in the naacp. Sunday was a day you could not touch the farm. You had no choice but to get up, down the dirt road, go to church. All day long church, not one service. You went to church in the morning. And when you got out of that church, you went to another church. My mom had a beautiful singing voice and everybody in the neighborhood wanted to come saying. We hopped in the back of the truck and go. If somebody had a meeting, we would go. So it was church, church, church. Politics and race relations. Everybody call my mother vic. A lot ofpassed away, people called the funeral home, and someone said, who is this precious jones . The undertaker says Everybody Knows her as vic. Country said the you cannot have that funeral. Postpone the funeral because we want to come to the funeral. That is when the word got out it vic, so hundreds of people came in. But mama was very active in organizations, the naacp and magnolia in magnolia. She would go to the meetings. When she would come back, she would talk. We got to do some things. She would talk about how we need to do better, how people need to learn how to fix up their homes and all that, stop depending on outside people. When they would have those meetings, she and her sister would get in the back of the pickup truck and they were gone. Sheas not a thing would not ask permission. She would get in the truck and go to the meeting. For kids growing up in a rural area, they were glad to jump in the back of the truck and go somewhere. That was her. She was just very active all over the place. About whate learned people were doing, she would come back to church and talk to people about what we need to do is we need to get the men together to do this, and the women get together, because that is the kind of thing she would learn from the naacp. Do you remember interviewer do you remember a few things from the 50s, you board,rown b board v to montgomery to little rock . Was that talked a lot about the house was that talked a lot about in the house . James the one thing i remember was the brown case. Thurgood marshall and my dad always my dad always had this big old radio. It was very powerful. We could pick up st. Louis. That is how i kept up with baseball. I always had the radio on. Put out, on radio, noon, all they negroes standstill at noon because the Supreme Court is fixing to make an announcement that will change this whole nation. Schoolwent to the little where i was going to school and told the teachers about it and said we need to make sure everybody hears what is about to be said. He had that much politics in his head. People got those radios and everybody was listening for that announcement. He stayed on top of stuff. He was that same way about farming. , butuld not borrow money what he would do is he kept his on what whitee farmers were doing, and some of the wealthier white farmers plows, they would go get alow and would new one. What he did is he would ask the white guys, the way owners, what are you they going to do with that plow . Oh, we have another one. I want to see if i can get that plow. He would take it to the school we went to, the vocational school, and the kids what experiment with welding what experiment with welding. We would use those plows. He was on top of the farming as well as the political side of things. Interviewer the fact that your father owned his own farm, how much does it matter . To theways, in relation black community locally, and unfolded inur life a sense of how you measured your own possibilities and independence . The first part, on the when mom and dad had to people who lived on other farms and they had very poor houses, he knew that if we did any kind of work on those houses, they would get tossed off the farm. Would haveld do, he us go and help them. And put it cut wood on the inside to seal the holes and everything, and that was no cost. That was something we, his sons, we had to do it. And i remember the one time , someoner under me said, you will do so much. We are so thankful. Take this. He said, i dont take no money. This is something we do for folks. And my dad would say, did you take any money . I said, no, sir. And he said, give me that quarter. He took that quarter and we went to church sunday. He made him take that quarter up to the pulpit and put in an offer. Lot of elderly a people. He was just that kind of caring. I was kind ofide, trained to do something pretty good, but i did not see it because dad and mama would go to the school and have all these talks with the teachers. What they was talking about, later on i learned from my older sisters and brothers, is that mama d james, data dad and mama is very proud of you and they tell those teachers to push you because you have smarts. I learned that a little later. I always had to do everything at school. We would have a school program. We want you to be the mc, we want you to start that group, we want you to be over the agriculture program. I had all the assignments. When i would come home, i did not get a chance to go out and play. James, you have to get all that stuff done. Between feeding hogs and chickens and doing all that, by that time it is dark. I did not see anything in that. When i got a little further in school, toward the 11th grade, i could see it. We want you to do some marvelous things, james, and do you are smart, you do good work in school, you are going places. That is when they started encouraging me. And then when that happened, i was playing basketball. This was a real shock to me because we worked hard. We asked dad, why do other kids come work on the farm . Why do you pay them but you do not pay us . He said, i am saving for hard times. It clara said it, well dad is pretty hard and clara said, well, dad, it is pretty hard. He said it, you do not know a hard times is. He would semia dollar send me a dollar. Back in those days, dollar was filthy rich. Interviewer i want to talk about everything that is going to happen after you get there in 1961, but im curious how much the early 60s, late 50s, made an impact on you. 1957, greensboro in 1960, all of what happened after that. Favor note big favor, but one thing that prepared me really well for that and mamaecause daddy listen to the radio and they paid attention to that kind of stuff and they were really on it, and i remember one son, ifa said to me, ever are put in that situation, do not turn it down. Go forward with it. That was the result of what i did not realize was that my mama and my aunt and daddy, in the early days, they had buses come through the small town. Even in those days, they were the only black folks that would get on the bus on the front seat. It kind of came back to me. Oh, we are integrating the bus lines. When central high came through and those were her words. Whenever you get an opportunity to do something for other people, do not be afraid, because he did not come from and afraid she said, it was dangerous when you all went. People did not like that. You have all been through it in seen it. Comes,n the opportunity go to the head of the line and be brave. They did talk about that. Off to school, and had all that in my head i had all them in my head. I was not looking for anything, but i when got to pine bluff. Nd saw a real segregation enough, butganized i saw it as i went downtown. N inns and all of those. The only black folks i saw were maids. That registered in my mind. Son, i will not tell you what to do. Somewhere and we dont youling never go through a backdoor. If whites go through the front door, you go through the front door. I heard that from her. Family youour mentioned that you weighed your own cotton. Can you tell us that story . James here is who lived on a plantation. Kids who lived on a plantation would work hard. When you picked that much cotton, you are getting 60 pounds, 65. Some guy was really good and hit as much as 80. When they brought their bags to the gin, white people do not let them weigh their own cotton did not let them weigh their own cotton. They would bring their bags, drop them, go back. My dad and mom went to the gin. They were gun packing black folks. Gin would sit right at the with a doublebarreled shotgun into shells between their fingers. When we got our cotton, come on, thereand they would go up and we would weigh our own cotton. The kids who would bring the cotton to the gin could not weigh theres. Theirs. Sometimes it would be 70 pounds cotton. Well, john, what do you think . Give or take 40 pounds. Pretty good. They were taking away 40 pounds from them. I would sit there and witnessed that. , we felt pretty comfortable because they were there with those guns. N we weighed our cotton [laughter] yourviewer how could family get away with that . James everybody in willisville and the surrounding area believed that if they bothered my family, a lot of killing would take place. They believed that because my brother had been in a real bad racial situation. Memberthe only black town called a mcneil. He got a job working on the railroad. Train, he wasthe doing the hard work, putting those spikes and all that. And when he went wherever they when and on the way back, they got to mcneil, they told troy to get off the train negroescks couldnt ride the train through mcneil, it was a small town. And troy would not get off the train. Just like my parents, he had his weapon. Fight. A hard, knockdown he was cut by a whole bunch of white folks. They chased and shot him up pretty bad, but he got through the woods and all that, and so the white people decided they would come down to our house and kill him. Waters is the guy who in willisville had the store. He told us, dont go over there. You will get killed. So my dad had some brothers and some cousins, and you had to go through these woods to get to the farm. About dark, they were coming to get troy. Man, there was so much shooting and people got hit. I heard people scream i have been hit. What dad and his brothers did, when they were shooting people, they went to them and took their guns. They let them go, but took all their guns. It was kind of known that we people to mess with. Interviewer how old were you . James i was 68. Interviewer excuse me, how old were you then . James 8, 9. Ville to willis willisville. My dad made the comment, if they come down here and mess with me, i will kick their ass. I thought he was talking to me. I walked all the way to willisville and told this white. Uy, womack he said, i will take care of that later. Tell me it was like, theat it was impressions you formed when you arrived in pine bluff . Campus, because that was a very important black institution. There, to pineot bluff, that was my first big city. The campus was very pretty. It was really exciting. Jumpstartelped me real fast is this school i went to, oak grove high school. It was a very good school. Fact, about four guys from that school were professors at pine bluff. I did not know that before i came along. My brother in milwaukee similar letter and said, there is a guy in the vocational school. Him oneind him and tell of my older brothers sent you. He was dr. Haney. I went there and when i walked into his office, he looked up and said, i do not know your name, but you are sure one of them jones. He recognized me. Oh yeah, you look just like ernest jones. He really was telling me all about the school. Walked around, took me all over campus. Boys,d, this is one of my ernest joness boys. Smart, andeet, kind, i went all professors to keep an eye on him. He is a good student. He came from a high school that had all of that. Said, you might need to taper luminary courses. He said, you are from a small town. What did you have in high school . I said, i had algebra. I had trigonometry. I had physics. I had biology, chemistry. He said, what kind of school did you go to . I said, i had a very good school. As a matter of fact, the handpickedmported, teachers from all around to come to that school. Interviewer was it private . , but there were four that were arkansas by way back in 1931 interviewer roosevelt . They think they were were, it was a group out of new york somewhere built these schools way back. I know our school was opened in 1829. The schools were built and they had a vision of folks coming. The schools were built with dormitories. These teachers came from other places and lived on campus. I think the quakers. There were two allblack school districts. Mine was one of them and the other was arkansas city, where ebony magazine johnson came out of. Unlike a lot of other schools, we had books. Wouldof the white schools give old books to the black schools, but we had good books. Are describingu a personal history. James yeah. Bluff, i was pine had metfortable and somebody that had been in ralston. He introduced me to dr. Marshall. Dr. Marshall was a professor on campus and he had another house by his house. He asked me, are you going to live in a dormitory . I said i have to live somewhere. Dr. Haynes said, put him in your house over there. You will take a liking to this young man. So we started talking, and he said, you sure know a lot to be a country boy, a country kid. You would expect the city kid to know everything. We started talking. He was the one told me, he said, there are some folks in little rock that are trying to get civil rights things started. T to smith and didnt have any luck. All of those kids were city kids. You to meetant those guys. That is when greenwich i met greenwich. ,o greenwich came down greenwich and bill hansen. A little bit later on, i met him. Later, they both came and started talking. Man, youaid, dang, already have done what we tried to do in your hometown. I said it, that is how i was raised. He said it, it must be a piece of cake for you. That was not when they were trying to get it started, but they said they were working in little rock. When we come back to pine bluff, we need to sit down and talk because this is a college town and there is a lot of segregation here, he said. You have all these mcdonalds and all this. In this city is driven by this university and this city is driven by this university. So that is how i met them. Interviewer do you remember, more specifically, about this group of folks, hansen . One is black, one is white. Met, greenwich talked about how he had been involved in labor and union groups a lot. Talked, heansen talked about how he had been involved in sit ins and things like that. The first thing bill said is, we students. Ganize they had already been around. Was, i amansens take a white boy and i do not need to be leading it. That is what he said, but we need a black person. You have already done all this stuff. If you went into one of these White Restaurants and was arrested, what would your parents say . Here, and come up they would come to the jailhouse, and they would say, james, is this what you want to do . They wouldid yes, say you will do whatever you need for us to support you and go back home. Me about this know, if you, you get involved and they talked about, dont you ever go through no backdoors. Whoa, is your mom a civil rights worker . I said that, i guess not. Not. Said, i guess were. That is how they brian womack was what we considered a very rich white man in willisville. And as i got involved, he was talking to mama about, you need to go get that boy, hes up and theing all of this, black schools where he needs to be. Word, and that is when all of this happened. Mama went and jumped in the car and him, made him take her, d him, i ought mr. Womack was a big white guy. It was freezing cold and he was sweating so bad because he knew mama had that pistol in her purse. Wouldnt doy mama that. In little rock, that was the issue. Everybody was afraid their parents would take them out of school and away and that was why they couldnt get anything started. Think that do you what might end up actually end was the the problem folks at the college, that your president . James i did not think that it all at all. Looked at the hotel that was segregated. I went down there by myself. Just to check it out. And when i came back, they started talking about we need to protest these places