Exploring the human stories and constitutional dramas behind 12 Historic Supreme Court decisions. Number 7 59. Since row against weighed. Quite often, and very famous decisions, are ones that corked took that were quite unpopular. Let us go through a few cases that illustrate very dramatically and visually, what it means to live in a society of 310 million different people who helped stick together because they believed in the rule of law. Good evening and welcome to cspan and the National Constitution centers landmark cases. Tonight, we are going to be examining a 1944 war powers case of the Supreme Court. It is the story of korematsu v. United states. Aaa iaea detained through the course of the war. Mr. Korematsu said that was wrong. We have two people helping us learn the story. Peter irons is the civil rights attorney and editor of ten books including justice at war, the story of the japanese american internment cases. In the course of researching his book on this case, he found that the government used tainted evidence to convict russia korematsu and to justify the internment of americans and helped overturn the conviction. Thank you for being here. Yay Karen Korematsu is the daughter of mr. Korematsu. Glad to have you at the table tonight. We are going to start with the big picture and when this case came to the court, exactly what were they asked to decide . What was the issue . The issue was whether the government could single out a particular group of people solely on the basis of the race or ethnicity. And pull them in literally, concentration camps indefinitely without any due process, without a hearing, a lawyer, a trial. Whether this would justify under the governments power as they assert detained, to protect the country from potential espionage or sabotaged by members of this group. There was an issue that really, at the time, very few people, particularly outside of the west coast had any real knowledge of japanese americans and sort of thought that well, this group looks like the enemy, and they may actually support the japanese, so it is better to round them up and put them away, and the president has the power to do this under the war powers of the constitution. That was the issue. What makes it a landmark case . It is a landmark case because first of all, the Supreme Court in a six to three ruling upheld the governments power to do this, and Fred Korematsus conviction for violating the report that he made for these internment candidates, the court upheld that. That set a precedent. We could say today, it is very unlikely to happen here. This is just an aberration in our constitutional history. But i dont really think it is because for one thing, even Justice Scalia recently said, this could happen again, so we have to be on the lookout and the alert at all times. Are we in a situation where some other group, whether it is arab americans or any other group, comes under this kind of hostility and scrutiny, and as one of the Supreme Court justices dissenting in the case said, this principal lies around like a loaded weapon, ready for the hand of any authority with a plausible reason. Looking at the history of the time as you have studied it, Karen Korematsu, was this particular to japanese americans . On the east coast there were threats of submarines coming to the United States where german americans ever rounded up or about to be rounded up . Why were japanese americans singled out . There were some german americans and Italian Americans that were put into some of the prisons and camps, but they were on a case by case basis. With the japanese americans, they were singled out because they quote, looked like the enemy and so therefore, that was why they were rounded up without any due process and put in these american concentration camps. It was racially based . It was racially based. Even Justice Robert jackson and murphy, even in their decisions said that it had to do with racial discrimination. Will you tell us in your book that there was a long history of biased pretty prejudice two words asians coming to the United States like back in 1880, was the chinese exclusion act. Set the stage before the 1940s, the feeling of the majority white americans, especially on the west coast for asians coming to this country . There had been, as you said, hostility toward Asian Americans ever since chinese immigrants came to this country. Largely, they worked on real roads and minds and agriculture. But there was a very powerful Nativist Movement and largely from organized labor which is sort of odd because they saw them as competition. Low wage competition. So as you said, Congress Passed a law in 1880. The chinese exclusion act. At that time, there were very few japanese americans. But when they started coming to this country around the turn of the 20th century, in larger numbers, Congress Actually passed a law singling them out as what they called aliens ineligible for citizenship. Japanese were the only people who could not become naturalized citizens and so they remained alien. Many of them had lived in this country for many years. They were loyal to this country. They brought up their children to be loyal americans. Of course, the children who were born here were birthright citizens. That is a somewhat controversial topic now, but they were american citizens. And so, but the hostility, particularly when japan became aggressive in asia toward china, manchurian so forth. The people be gantry here but there would be an outbreak of war and hostility with the japanese. But the interesting thing is, after the japanese bombed pearl harbor in december of 1941, for more than one month, there was no organized call to deport or in turn or round up japanese americans, and newspapers were saying, they are loyal americans. We do not need to give into the fears. But then, the press on the west coast and politicians started saying, we have to end the farmer Growers Association in california, they said this is white mans country. They actually said that. So this began to build up. And exerted pressure on president roosevelt, who finally capitulated and issued the order, which im sure we will talk about in a minute. That gave the military the power to detain, exclude any person of any ancestor, that only japanese americans were singled out. You just touched on the back story that needs to be emphasized. Especially with the agriculture. The japanese were doing so well up and down the west coast, that a lot of people were very jealous. There was kind of what we are today, they are taking away our jobs. They are taking away our opportunities. Our land. As we do in this country, we go into other countries where we can get cheap labor and especially before japan at the turn of the century, when the economy was very poor, they went into the prefectures and the counties where it was highly agriculture, and they said come to america. Its the land of opportunity. That is how my grandfather came to the west coast. No different than what they did to the chinese, and now what we are doing especially for the mexicans that come up from mexico. If you have been watching the series with us, you know an important part of it is your involvement in it. There are three ways you can do it. You can call us in about 15 minutes or so. Well begin taking calls. You can also send us a tweet at cspan and use the hashtag landmark cases. We will make sure your twitter questions and comments will be here throughout the program. You can go to cspans facebook page. The comments are already lining up under there. Please join us in this conversation on korematsu v. United states during a time of war, to take away civil liberties. That is really what the question is here. It has lots of important elements for our society today. So we are going to show a video that is about the pearl harbor attack and this is a government film on japanese relocation. Lets watch. December 7th, 1941 a date which will live in infamy. When the japanese attacked pearl harbor, it our west coast became a potential combat zone. For more than 100,000 persons of japanese origin, two thirds of them are american citizens. Military therefore determined, should have to move. Now the actual migration got underway. The army provided to transport household belongings and buses to move the people to assimilate centers. The evacuees cooperated wholeheartedly. Behind then they left shops and homes that the occupied for many years. They were taken to race tracks where the army could build assembly plants. They lived here until communities could be completed on federally owned land. The army provided housing and plenty of helpful, nourishing food for all. At each reLocation Center, evacuees were met by japanese who arrive some days earlier. The newcomers were curiosity. There in the new area on land for all, contained and full of opportunity. Here they would be schools, educate their children, reclaim the center. This picture is actually a pro up to a story that is yet to be told. The full story will begin to unfold when the desert turns green, when oil sands are protected on public land. It will be fully told only when circumstances and once again to enjoy the freedom we in this country sherisse. And we hope it has that this country. In the meantime, we are setting a standard for the rest of the world in the treatment of people who may have royalty for elimination. So there we see the government take on all of this. How is the country reacting once the order was given . While the action was actually very unusual because as the propaganda film said, the vast majority of japanese americans cooperated because they had no choice. Where else could they go . What would happen to them . And what would happen to their families, their children, their parents and grandparents . So they did cooperate and go into the camps but the camps, as im sure anyone whos been in them could tell you, were not like this propaganda film. And so most americans didnt think about it, it wasnt an issue that really concern them. They were stuck away on indian reservations and the desert and the mountains of the west and even in the swamps of arkansas. And for most of the war, most people did even think about what was going on. Plus there was a war going on and people have sons who were overseas fighting and their focus was on america winning the war. Your folks, your relatives and people like them werent in these in tournament camps. Lets bring fred into the store at this point. Hold was you on the order was given . He was 23 years old. What had he been doing up to that point . He actually had been a welder. He had tried to actually enlist in the service even before the top of the draft. He and his buddies wanted to have stay together, so they thought they would apply and first they applied to the National Guard and when they went to the post office to enlist, but the military officer refused to give my father an application. And that was even before, you know, the before pearl harbor. My father always wanted to support, you know, the military effort and he decided to go to Welding School and get his license and then became a wilder. But even then he was fired as pearl harbor got closer and just because he was of japanese, you know, ancestry, even though he was an american citizen born in oakland, california. The executive order at stake was what exactly that if they are gave . It was nine zero six six. This was an executive order which was later followed up by the act of congress that made violation what the executive order did was to empower the military, the west Coast Military commander general john dewitt, to issue orders that would exclude any or all persons from designated military zones. The whole west coast was a designated military zone all the way to the Canadian Border to mexico extending inward several hundred miles at the state of arizona, california, oregon, washington. And so the order was openended but it was only applied to japanese americans. And so what general dewitt did systematically starting in washington across from seattle, all the way down to san diego, was issue these Exclusion Orders which said that they had to report that you see within a week and they had to report to these Assembly Centers. As the propaganda film said, they were in racetracks and fairgrounds. The conditions rupture terrible. But they had no other choice. And if they resisted, they were subject to criminal penalties and this is what motivated not only karens dad, but also to other japanese americans were a man born in seattle, who was a student in washington and a man in portland, oregon, was a lawyer. They both refused to report for interment and they violated the curfew that general dewitt had imposed on japanese americans. And so they were all charged by the government, all convicted, and their cases all went to the Supreme Court. Our next video is actually Fred Korematsu about his actual family life and his period in his life. Lets watch. At the nursery, my parents they were all around the radio listening. They were not saying very much. My mother was crying. My father was was disgusted. What my parents did to then or see, what was going to happen . A few days later, the police came down their income skated all flashlights and cameras. They confiscated everything that they thought we would use for signaling. See before the war, my parents were very proud people. They always talked about japan, you know, and also about the summarize and stuff like that. And, after pearl harbor, they just kept it to themselves. They were afraid to talk about it. I thought the Exclusion Order would be only for aliens. Those that were born in japan i did not think that it would go as far as to include american citizens. So Karen Korematsu, did your grandparents go to the camps . Oh yes, every one of japanese ancestry along the west coast was forced. But your father was not . That is correct, my father was the son of four boys. As i said he was 23 years old at that time, so he was old enough to be more independent and he learned about the constitution in high school. And thought he had, you know, civil rights as an american citizen. So i member him telling me that if, you know, first day thought that maybe, you know, something might happen to his parents because even though they had wanted to become citizens, they werent. But certainly the american citizens would be protected. So he, you know, once this order was issued when, he just didnt think it was right and, you know, all due process was basically, you know, thrown out the window. There was never any charges, never any hearings, never access to an attorney or your day in court. So he, you know, just wanted to get on with his life as an american citizen and thats what he decided to do. He also had a personal reason. He did. He had an Italian American girlfriend. Thank, you Italian American girlfriend, not my mother. And because she said she would have never deserted him but that was another reason. How american is that to, you know, want to stay behind because, you know, you just want to stay with your girlfriend and just be unamerican . And thats all he ever wanted to do. How did he get arrested . It was on a Street Corner in california, which is a suburb next to oakland in the San Francisco bay area and he was supposed to meet his girlfriend that day on the corner and he went into this kind of Little Corner store to buy some cigarettes and he thinks he was spotted, somebody recognized him, so he was on the corner and then all of a sudden the rock Police Showed up and said something to him like, have you seen any sure japanese guys around here my my father said, no and then the military police came and so that was it. And then they took him first to jail and then oakland and then the federal jail in San Francisco. They didnt know what to do with him. So what are the important things to know about Fred Korematsus initial steps with the law . While the initial steps were very rudimentary, say the least. Fred was put in, as karen said, into the federal jail and while he was there, he was visited by the director of the Northern California aclu a man named earnest. And earnest read about freds arrest in the use paper and he was hoping to find somebody who would be willing to undertake a test case but this was a test case that had no guarantees success whatsoever but fred said, okay, i will do it. There were two other japanese americans who have been picked up, later sent to the camps who were unwilling to do this. They just wanted to get this over with. But fred said, no, i will do this, so they held a trial. The interesting thing about the trial is that, first of all, it lasted less than one day. There was only one witness against fred and that was the fbi agent who interrogated him after he was arrested. There were only two questions asked that the hearing, are you a japanese american, which he obviously was. Secondly, did you violate the Exclusion Order, which he obviously did. So you are guilty. The judge actually in that case instructed the jury that they had to find friend guilty and his defense attorney tried to argue constitutional issues, the judge dismissed all of it. But one interesting thing, susan, is that one after the judge declared that fred was guilty he the sentence he imposed was probation, which normally means that you are free to go about as long as you report monthly to a probation officer. But as soon as fred had posted the bail, which was very small, for mr. Besig actually wrote the check. Earnest besig wrote the ch