Tom on berkshire mountain there did dwell Norman Rockwell narrator stockbridge is in massachusetts in an area called berkshire county. A pretty place that used to be isolated, surrounded by hills and mountains. Not big like the alps or the rockies, but big enough to discourage traveling in the olden days. Going west from boston, you had to head over the passes on the old mohawk trail. Then you got into an area maybe 20 miles wide and 50 miles long. Like a lot of new england towns, there are the traditional white houses and neat gardens and picket fences. That is the oldest house. Then there are the churches. And the town hall. The country around stockbridge farms, water in good supply. They tell me it is much like the lake country in england, including the writers to go along with the scenery. Hermann melville, the author of moby dick, lived here. In the summertime, the quiet of the town changes to a bustle of summer visitors, who come to enjoy the countryside, the theater, the ballet at jacobs pillow, and of course the concerts at tanglewood, where the boston symphony plays. Most of the time village life flows like the quiet stretches of the housatonic river. Meaning beyond the mountain place. I am tom glazer in the boat over there on my way to visit a friend who lives near the river. [whistling] his name is Norman Rockwell and he is the best known illustrator in america today. Much of his reputation comes from the many covers he painted four the saturday evening post, one of americas largest magazines read by over 30 Million People each week. You can find a copy in every corner of the united states. Even people who do not read the magazine are familiar with a cover. Rockwell has a special meaning to his large and affectionate audiences. What he paints represents the everyday hopes, loves and fads of people all over the country. He holds a mirror of kindness and humor up to people, who respond with love and affection. What they are and what they would like to be. He draws and paints in stockbridge town, his work has brought him great renowned tom this is a self caricature of the artist as a young man. We will take a look at him now, at his house in stockbridge. Rockwell works in the barn he made into a studio. In this building Norman Rockwell paints a scene of small town and country life. I wanted to find out about this man, what makes him tick, how he works, why he works. [guitar music] we are not so different. I earn my living as a folksinger. Muchn earns his not so but aolk painter painter of folk. [humming] we saw each other and said hello. Norman is pretty spry. After we said hello, he came down and helped me beach the boat. We walked to the house. Norman asked about the song i was singing, it is called berkshire mountain. Originally springfield mountain. It was written long ago by a. Ellow named nathan jarry he lived a few miles north of stockbridge. The peasant bard of hinsdale he was called. This is the room you really liked to live in, isnt it, norman . Norman well, when im not working, i am in here quite a lot, tom. I can see why boy hill appeals to you. Tom he liked to paint people, same as you. Norman i am very fond of broyhill. One of the great painters. I call this saturday night. I can see it very well. It does look like saturday night. Broyhill was one of the best, wasnt he . Norman yes, he was one of the fine arts painters. A great painter. I am not a fine arts painter. I am in illustrator. I illustrate stories. It is very different from a painter. Tom it does not make you any less serious about your work then a fine arts painter, does it . Norman i thing i work as hard as he works, but it does not come out fine arts, it comes out illustration. Tom speaking of seriousness, norman, i recall somebody told me, is this true that back at school, at art school, you were called the deacon . Norman yes, art school is full of a lot of, you know, gay birds and i was a serious guy. They called me the deacon. Tom so you deserved the title . Norman yes, i earned it. [laughter] tom that was the golden age of illustrators, wasnt it . Norman yes, that was the great age, remington, abby, gibson. These were the great illustrators. Tom of course we were talking about the golden age of illustration, meaning mostly books. Before then though, illustrators were used as reporters and chroniclers of their times in newspapers and other periodicals. You take courier and ives as an example. They were lithographers as well as artists and employed many artists. From about 1825 or so, a stream of prints came out of their shop. He was handed up his orders at munro, virginia, saying, steve, you are way behind the time. This is not 36 but old 97, you must get her into spencer on time. Steve, he turned to his old black fireman and said shovel on more coal. For whenever we had that old white mountain, you can see old 97 roll. Do, do, do, do do, do, do, do do do, do [guitar folk tune] norman i bet i have done a lot more picture than even courier and ives ever did. Tom i do not doubt it. But i would not say theres much similarity between your work and courier and ives. Norman no, i guess youre right. I was influenced by howard pyle and frederick remington. Tom i knew about pyles influence, norman, but i do not know about remingtons. Norman well, of course, remingtons work was certainly different from mine. But i like his approach, how we went about making a picture. In fact, i have a remington in the other room. Would you like to see it . Tom yes. Norman well, come on. Tom we took a look at the picture in the parlor. Remington was a guy born in new york state and moved out west as a tourist you might say. He did not paint the boredom of cowboy life, but only the romantic side. In the same way, norman who was born in new york city, became a tourist in the country. I ride an old paint i lead an old man im going to montana to throw the houlihan beat them and the coolies and waterin the dog, their mats are all matted and covered with snow straw ride around little doggies, right around them slow, because the fire and the snuffy are raring to go strumming] tom the big influence in normans life was howard pyle. He felt fortunate to acquire an original, which he hung in the studio. There were three brothers and in merry scotland scotland there were they did cast lots on what three. Go, should gould and turn rubber on the salt sea the lot is fell upon henry martin, the youngest of all the three along should turn rubber the salt sea, the salt sea for to maintain his two brothers and he with broadside and broadside, they went for fully for two hours or three till henry martin gave to her the death shot, the death shot, the death shot and straight to the bottom when she norman you know, tom, the thing i admired about howard pyle was his honest, intense interest in research. Everything he did he researched. He knew exactly what he was doing. Tom have you done the same sort of thing with your illustrations . Norman i tried to. Im not the great artist that howard pyle was. For instance, in this huckleberry and thomas sawyer, i went out to hannibal, missouri, where the story was laid, where mark twain himself was a young boy. I found that out there, you see this picture here . In reading the story, it tells how he stepped out of the window and on to the drainpipe, and then took two running steps on the woodshed and onto the fence. Tom i remember that. Norman if you go out there, if you go into that room, which actually exists tom i never knew that. Norman you can do exactly what he said in the book. In other words, it was completely autobiographical. Tom there Something Else ive been curious about. The clothing in period pieces have always been interesting. Do you get the actual clothes . At the time that the illustrator illustrate . Norman it can be hard, you cannot get a hold of George Washingtons hat. [laughter] but in Huckleberry Finn and tom , i didout in hannibal get the clothes they wore that time. Tom i see. Norman it mustve been the same kind they wore at that time. I have this old hat here. It is a real beauty. You can get a new hat. It really has to be sweated and lived in, and this has been lived in. Tom that hat is so old and beat up it looks beautiful. [laughter] the way norman found the models for his covers interested me very much, especially the cover he did for the saturday evening post, now known as the golden rule cover. There were a lot of people in that, it went over 30 heads, all kinds of people and nationalities. Where did they come from, norman . Norman some of them came from right here in stockbridge and others came from arlington, vermont. Tom lets start at the beginning. What made you decide to do the picture, norman . Norman well, tom, i realized the golden rule was the only common denominator of all religions from the beginning of time. The golden rule which says do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Tom those colorful costumes in the picture, norman, where did they come from . Norman i took a trip around the world and brought back literally boxes of photographs. I also brought back some of the actual costumes. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you all men are brothers, this above all must be true love your neighbors help each other and then the peace we have long for will come to all men hmmm, mmmmm, mmmmm, mmmm costumes you have the i guess you found the people to put in them . Norman yes. Tom from around here, norman . Norman well, some were visitors and some were students. This fellow is part brazilian and part hungarian. And this choi, korean, he is a student at ohio state university. He is a japanese student. I got her at Bennington College in vermont. Heres a jewish student. He was taking summer courses at the indian hills school, a mile or so from here, just up the road. Tom how about the ones who live here all year round . Any of those . Norman lets see, there is mr. Lalas, a retired postmaster of stockbridge, right here. He made a pregood rabbi, i think. By the way, in real life, he is a very devout catholic. [laughter] you see this group . There is a father, mother and child. They are the squires family from arlington, vermont. He is a yankee and she is swedish. They have, i think, 12 kids. I did not get them all in that picture but it is quite a family. This girl here, she is a local girl from pittsfield, about 15 miles from here. Her name is susie lee. This is chris schaefer. He is my very good friend and business manager. Boy, was he surprised when he found out he was in the picture this is a girl who lives right here in stockbridge, just down the road. She is lebanese, originally. Now her parents are u. S. Citizens. I get all of my middle east faces from abdullah. He runs the elm Street Market a block from our house. I had a wonderful time. Abdullah rounded up 24 arabs. [humming] this little girl is the daughter of louis lamoni who helps me around the studio. He would have been mad if i left her out of the picture. This one is from memory. That is my wife, mary, and that is my grandson. Everybody likes to get in the act so models were no problem. Tom do you still have the sketches you made . Norman yes i have them over here, would you like to see them . Tom sure word. Norman well, come on over. [whistling along with guitar playing] tom would you say, norman, that the golden rule cover is typical of your work . Norman i guess, not exactly typical. Tom is it like anything else you have ever done . Four freedoms that i did. Whenever there is a big idea i am trying to portray, i always use plain, everyday people to express the idea. Tom i see. Norman and most of my work, however, i try to do every day situations. [humming] i try for more than just humor. You have to have a little pathos or little depth in them. Take this cover, for instance. The idea of an old man and his violin looking at a saxophone. I thought i would jazz it up with the sax. It is supposed to be comic, but the overtones are whether he should stick to the old ways, the violin, or take up the new ways, the saxophone, that is really a problem. That is what i mean. Tom you like to paint old people . Norman yes, old men show their lives in their faces. The ups and downs, the sadness, the gladness. Everything that has happened to them is right there in their face. My favorite old model years ago was a wonderful character named brunt. Van he was 52, the same height as napoleon and he had been in every war he could get into. He was in the indian war, the civil war. He tried desperately to get in the first world war. It was there in his face. He was a heroic little guy. Tom but you like to paint kids too, dont you . Norman yes, i like to paint kids because i think people like to go back to their youth again. Tom since 1916, i think you have painted more than 300 covers. In all that time, i suppose the magazine has changed quite a bit, hasnt it . Norman oh, yes. The magazine has to change like Everything Else has to change. I have some of the really old covers if you like to see them . Tom before your time . Gosh way before my , time. Tom oh, there is your very first cover tell me the tales that to me were so dear, long, long ago long, long ago. Sing me the songs i delighted to hear long, long ago long ago [humming tune] long, long ago long ago [humming tune] tom norman did many covers about world war i and world war ii. But the ones we all loved most were about homecoming. [humming tune] long long ago long ago [guitar chords] tom well, that was about it for the day. So, i swung my guitar over my shoulder and walked back to the boat. On berkshire mountain, dwell an artist named Norman Rockwell taroodedoo, taroodedoo he lives and paints in stockbridge town his work has brought him great renown taroodeedoo announcer this is American History tv featuring events, interviews, archival