Historians. Mr. Poke ranked 14th in cspans story of president ial leadership. John seeingigenthaler, autho james k. Polk. How did they talk you into doing a biography of this president . He called me and said youre a tennessean, james polk was a tennessean. Why dont you write a biography for the series on the president s. I said, arthur, i dont have time. Im retired. He said i want you to do one thing. He said allen evans has done a paper back that excerpts his diary, his president ial diary. Just take the weekend to read it and tell me no. I read the excerpts from the diary and i couldnt say no. I was fascinated by the man. Did you know much about him before you started this . I knew he was a tennessean, im a tennessean. I knew that his grave is behind the capitol. There is no marker in nashville except a plaque on the side of a dirty motel wall. His old home place in columbia is preserved, and ive been there many times and have been there since. But i knew virtually nothing about him and almost nothing that was good. His reputation is a result of what was done to him during his presidency over the mexicoamerican war left him a bad reputation, a reputation as a warmonger. And the attacks on him in congress in the latter days of his administration reminded me a great deal of the attacks on Lyndon Johnson at the end of his administration over the vietnam war, similarities there. James k. Polk was president when, and tell us the four things he promised to do . Well go back over the details but what were the four things he promised to do . He was president from 1844, oneterm president by his choice. He said he would not run for reelection and he would not accept any suggestion. And Many Democrats pushed him to run again. On the about the week of his inaugural, he told his friend, george bancroft, great historian by the way. He said there are four things i want to do. They will be my great measures. One, we will lower the tariff. Controversial issue. Two, we will create an independent treasury. Well take all the governments money out of these corrupt private banks which pay us no interest and well put those funds in private vaults to pay the bills, meet the payroll. Three, we will take california and well take oregon. That will make us from sea to shining sea. He said he would do it and he did it. What right did we have to take texas or california or oregon . Belonged to us jointly with great britain. And he considered it part of the national right of the american nation to take that contiguous territory. And he threatened to go to war with the british over it. He bluffed them and said he was prepared to go to war over it. At the last moment, the british capitulated. California, he had hoped that he would be able to purchase. Both henry clay when he was secretary of state under John Quincy Adams and john tyler who was president immediately before polk was president both had tried to buy california. The mexico cans weans were insu both offers and rejected to give them the territory for money. So, we went to war with them and took it. One of the things i notice was theres some similarities to today. Very sharp similarities. House of representatives 108107 with 24 independent. When was that, when he was president . That was when he was speaker. He presided over the closest house in that time in history. He had a terrible time, this speaker. Hes the only speaker who became president of the United States. Nobody else has been able to make that spring board. As we speak richard gere hard is trying to be another leader of the house that went all the way. But polk did it. He was he presided over a hostile house. Members of that house were constantly trying to bait him into duels. Called a dead shot on a man name billy payton from tennessee. Both despised him and insulted him and harassed him from the floor. At one point they met him to the door and wise said you were very insulting to me today on the floor. And he said, pocket it, he said. He was against duelling, would not accept the duels. It would not challenge in return for an insult. And jackson, the great dueller who wouldnt take any insult, he was jacksons protege and everyone said jackson would be critical of him because he took those insults. But on the contrary, jackson said he admired his specific attitude and courage ncepping leadership and not responding as many did in that day. If he were here today, where would he fit . Well, he was well, we would call him today yellow dog democrat. He was, i think, perhaps the most partisan president in history. Harry trueman, another very partisan president , once listed was one of those. He lists them in alphabetical order. Jackson, jefferson, lincoln, polk. But he does not list them as he rates them. But clearly them, but clearly one of the top eight. I think truman admired him. Truman said he knew exactly what he was going to do, he said what he was going to do it and he did it. And that made great hay with truman. He was also very critical of his generals as truman was with douglas mcarthur, so theres that similarity, too. But part of polk polk would have been right at home in todays acidic washington environment. I think he would have been up to the needles in the digs and knives that are wielded. And i think he would have waded right into that environment and been right at home. He was a man for his time. Theres very little you can say that he left. His administration was sandwiched between the only two whig administrations in our history. ;xv and both of those administrations, the Harrison Administration and the taylor administration, were of course interrupted by the deaths of those two president s. And so those two whig administrations did very little, and his administration is sandwiched between those, and he did a great deal. So its surprising to me that only historians recognize him. Every ten years theres a poll and he always winds up somewhere between seventh or eighth or 12th. Youve never seen polk lower i kept writing down words you used to describe him. And ill read a couple of them here. Perfectionist, micromanager, workaholic, a brooder, humorless, angry, arrogant, unforgiving, called himself the hardestworking man in the country, straightlaced, a little prig from tennessee. A little prig from tennessee. The truth of that is, brian, when i got thru with this i was not in love with him. I admired him for what he did. He was a toughminded president , and, you know, he gave us a continental nation and a dozen states exist because he took us westward. But hes not the sort of fellow i think you and i would have enjoyed having lunch with and certainly not dinner with. You wouldnt want to go around the world on a bike with him. Nonetheless i did come away with Great Respect for him. And while not affection, admiration because he did great things. His effort to finish the bank war that jackson had started. Jackson, his role model, his hero, his mentor, the man who really made him president. He really, trying to model himself after jackson and yet there were attributes to jacksons character that turned him off. So i didnt come away really in love with him. I would have to say that i dont like him very much. I dont think he was a very likable man. And among other reasons, he just was duplicitous. He was two or three times a week theyd open up the white his worst enemies would come down from the hill. He and sarah, this lovely congenial woman, would welcome them. His worst enemies. Hed make them feel like they were king for a day. And that night hed go upstairs and geniality and collegiality went out the window, and he would sit down with his diary and rip them to shreds. He used that diary almost as a purgative. And obviously it hooked me. It was the bait that led me to do this biography. Its fascinating reading. How much did you read . I read all of it. Its four volumes. After i read nevins brief paperback i then got the four volumes and poured over them and i read them all. How much copy . How big are the four volumes . Well, each one is around 400 pages. But in are some indexes there. Its around 400 pages. Its a long read. But its conversational, and he was a good writer. He knew how to write a simple declarative sentence, and thats what the diary is. And his that line you quoted, i know im the hardestworking man in america, i mean, that sort of reflects the egomaniacal instinct that emerged. He said, ive learned i can run every department of the government without the cabinets help. And then he said im the hardestworking man in america. Truth is he probably was. He was a workaholic, around the clock, early morning, late at night. And very, very sickly during much of his administration. You graphically described when he was 17 years old, the operation he had. Oh, my god. Now, where did you get that . The story of that operation has been somewhat in question. Some of the earlier historians said that it was for gallstones. I ran across an important piece in the 1980s by a medical doctor. He wrote this piece and he points out we didnt have a gallstone operation for 54 years in this country after polk had his, and he concluded it was for urinary stones. And there were documents that were left by mcdowell, the danville, kentucky, specialist, one of the great surgeons in the history of this country. He left papers and those papers he relied on to demonstrate this was really a urinary stone operation, and it was a brutal operation. Here is a 17yearold young man constantly almost chronically ill with lower abdomen pains. Finally his father, whos wealthy, decides the best man in the country is a doctor in philadelphia. And they put him in a covered wagon with a bed. And this ambulance, horse drawn, heads north to pennsylvania. Gets up around the green river in kentucky, and he has Violent Attacks and they rush him to danville where this other surgeon operates. The operation, i said, was brutal, no antiseptic, and they only could give him brandy. They didnt have any antisepsis to stop the poison. They held him down. His uncle was with him. They put him up on their shoulders. They used what was called a goyget, and it looks like it sounds, a vicious knife. And they went through the scrotum and the anus, right through the prostate. How he ever survived is how much of that went on back then . Did you check . Well, yeah, there are the Historical Records and medical records are somewhat sketchy. But with regard to james polk theyre there, and think after he became the speaker of the house, he corresponded with the doctor. Xo there were just a couple of physicians who were capable of doing this. Sam polk, his father, really made a search before he decided he wanted the doctor to do this, and mcdowell had been on his agenda i think was just fortunate. I think mcdowell was close to him as he was when they got him there. Theres no doubt in my mind, and this is why i think the operation was important. Theres no doubt in my mind that he was childless as a result of this operation. I take my conclusion on that one step beyond where bob left it, although i know he agrees with that. And i created a panel of about nine doctors whose names are acknowledged in the book. Some specialists, some general practitioners all thought it wa very risky, but all concluded after they looked at it that not much doubt he was either left sterile or impotent or both, so it was a childless marriage. You talk about him being sick. You of course point out he was how long out of office after one term he died . He died 90 days after he left the presidency. He went home to die. He left the presidency worn and sickly. Probably contracted cholera either on the way home or after he arrived. It was a long trip. He went all the way south to new orleans and came up the river, up the mississippi, and then down the cumberland, across the ohio and down the cumberland river. Arrived home and was welcomed by tennesseeans, his old friend from congress, aaron brown, was now governor and they welcomed and he had 90 days of bad health and died. 53 years old. 53 years old. He at the time was the youngest president in history. And died younger than any president in history. This series, you mentioned Arthur Schlesinger and times books. Are they doing all 42 men as of now, there are 22 i think listed. I hope they do them all. I know that i had some conversations with my editor robin dennis, who is a terrific editor and during the course of the writing and the research, i got into the issues involving his secretary of state james buchanan, who became president , of course. And in discussing it with the editor, she said, well, i probably let had better let the author of the book know where youre going with this because well see where he comes down and i never felt followed up on that so i just dont i just dont know where that is going to go or how that is going to come out. When did you start it . Two years. It took two years to do. And to what lengths did you go to make sure you had the right stuff . Where did you go . I went everywhere i could to possibly find sources. The best stuff is in the diary. And in his papers. At the university of tennessee, there is a historian, dr. Wayne cutler, who is the curator of the pope papers. And he has by the time hes through, it will be 14, 15 volumes, but he spent decades just developing these really huge volumes of polks correspondence. Between the diary and the correspondence you get a real sense of who the man is. There were three excellent biographies. One by john jenkins, which was done maybe 40, 50 years after his death, and another by eugene mccormick, which came in the 30s, and then charles sellers had a twovolume biography but stopped before he got to the presidency. Im so sorry he didnt do the third volume. Sellers . Sellers. Because i relied on it very heavily. At times, came to different conclusions than all three, but i found that in the research, it was a chance to know a lot about people i never had looked at very closely. People who made our country what it is. And it was necessary to read biographies of tyler and van buren and buchanan and others in order to fill in the foundation on which the biography had to stand. I mean, you couldnt very well write a biography about polk, who had almost routine conflicts with his secretary of state, without finding out something about that secretary of state. The same was true james buchanan. James buchanan. What was your reaction when you saw how much they fought . Could you do that today . I could not for the life of me imagine why polk put up with it except that as he said to his friend, johnson, shortly after he won the election, i intend myself to be president. You know, i talked to wayne cutler about this conflict. Cutler, who has been looking at james k. Polk for all of these years now, and i said, i cannot for the life of me figure out why polk kept buchanan as secretary of state. They were constantly at war. And cutler said he was the secretary of state himself. And he could control buchanan. Well, he could control him but he couldnt keep him from popping off or telling him he was wrong or even lecturing him. What did they fight about . They fought about foreign policy. They fought about a good are constantly meddling in u. S. Affairs. Theyve got interests in the middle of this country, and then there is mexico that is having this this ongoing conflict with texas, with the republic of texas. And so there was a good deal there to formulate policy on. And when it comes time for war with mexico, buchanan says in a cabinet meeting, you know, i really need to let the french and british know that in this war with mexico we dont have aims on california. Well, of course, polk had aims on california. It was contrary to everything his administration was going to be about. And he says, do not do that. I dont want to i do not want you to tell them. He said, well, if you dont do that, you may have war with both of them. He said, ill go to war with them and fight until the last man before ill say that we have no designs on california. And so he was silent. Buchanan was silent on the subject, but buchanan was not very consistent as a secretary of state. For example, when it came time to take oregon territory away from the british, buchanan, the issue was at what parallel would we get the territory if we got it. And if we went to war, we wouldu get the 54th parallel, a fight which was decried in congress. The Tyler Administration left him with a proposal to the british to draw the line at the 49th parallel. And the british turned that flatly down and it infuriated him and he said you go back and tell them we want it all. Im paraphrasing. But thats just what he said. Would the all be up to the Canadian Border . All the way up. Washington and oregon . When you go beyond washington, up to the 54th. So buchanan says, you know, this will mean war. And he said, i dont care. You tell them. The offer is off the table. And he said as always, buchanan had a fallback position. He said, mr. President , you know, were about to have trouble with mexico, why dont we put this off . And he says, but we you know, weve got were very close to a war with two countries here. He said, well do our duty by mexico and great britain. We must look john bull in the eye, he says. And reluctantly, buchanan goes over and delivers the message and then comes back the next meeting and says, i did it. It was the wrong thing, but i did it. Right in the president s face, you did the wrong thing making me go over there and say that. Believe it or not, polk says we did the right thing. It was right. And leaves it at that. But it was a constant fight, a constant war. And then i question why in my own mind even after talking to cutler, even after knowing thatc he was controlling him, why he didnt dump him. And then you run across this effort by buchanan to confront the president and say, do you really want me . And there is a vacancy on the United States Supreme Court and buchanan goes over and says, you know, i would like that. Polk has a chance to get rid of him then. And he doesnt take it. I mean, he almost he almost cajoles him back in to the office. And then buchanan says, there is a wonderful lawyer up there, johnny reed, for you, for me, he would be a wonderful justice of the Supreme Court, and he leaves there thinking hes made the case for his friend reed, and polk, without saying anything to him im sure buchanan went out and told all his friends in congress, told reed, probably, hes going to be the next polk gives it to a state justice, and buchanan comes there almost weeping, saying you cut me to the heart. Why didnt you tell me you were going to do this . Its none of your business. I dont have to ask my cabinet for permission. And then he said, you know, i found out that this man was a federalist for 12 years. And i have never found this is how partisan he was, i have never found a federalist older than 30 who ever changed his mind on his politics. Now, thats pretty partisan, you know. And he used federalist and whig interchangeably. If you were a whig, you were a federalist. And buchanan went away licking his wounds and weeping. But was there at the very end. At the very end, there is another terrible dispute right at the end. There is a new president elect, Zachary Taylor, and he said shouldnt this cabinet go over and say hello to the new president and welcome him, and polk said i would consider it a betrayal if you did that. He needs to come call on me. Then you may do what you seek to do. You point out in your book that there were 2. 5 million votes in the 1844 election, all white men. All white men. No women. No women. No blacks. No blacks. And you point out that the difference in the vote was between henry clay and james buchanan, 1. 4 . 1. 4 . 38,000 votes. And now the electoral college, 36 votes in new york really gave it to polk. Had new york gone for clay, clay would have been the president. And interestingly, and you say there are echoes from this time to our time. James k. Polk failed to carry his home state of tennessee, which reminds us in 2000 if al gore carried his home state of tennessee, he would have been the president. Everything that goes around comes around, i guess, brian. Quick question on the diaries. Where do they keep them now, the actual diaries . The actual diaries are in the library of congress. The copies that cutler has and all of those documents in cutlers domain are copies. Both the correspondence and the diaries. Can you read the diaries online . You can read the diaries online. And that made my work much, much easier. You read the diaries online and you can i say read them online. You can get a cd and that is what i did. And got it from the university of tennessee. And to be able to do that, to sit at home and just sit in front of the computer and make notes, split the screen and make notes beside it as you go through, excerpt what you want, made writing for me a new experience. How much of a tennesseean are you . Born and bred. Where . All of my life. I was born in nashville, tennessee, and my whole life has been spent there. But, you know, it says something about our education that i have not found a tennesseean who knows ive written this book who knows very much about james k. Polk. If you ask what president nobody knows hes the 11th president and he served one term and nobody knows he expanded the country from just west of the Mississippi River to the pacific ocean. We know he fought a war. And thats about thats pretty much it. I was really i was really excited as i went through it because i learned so much about my own state. About the leaders in the early days who established that state. And i had read all of robert reminis books on jackson and before that parton on jackson, which is the early classic work. But putting jackson in context while writing about polk really gave me new insights to Andrew Jackson, about whom i knew a great deal. And just for example, jacksons greatest problem during his presidency i think had to do with his inability to get along with the Vice President john c. Calhoun and the calhounites that were part of his cabinet. And the marriage of john eaton, remember the cabinet, hes a good friend, to Margaret Oneill was a major scandal. And ultimately jackson wipes out the whole cabinet. And polk is over there in Congress Looking at that. Over this marriage. Over this over this marriage. I mean, calhoun will not have anything to do with Margaret Oneill, the wife of the Vice President. And other cabinet officers follow her along. Van buren, not married, is very nice to him. And what was he then . He was Vice President. No, he was secretary of state. And jackson wraps him arm around van buren and names him Vice President , really ordained him from the vice presidency in the second term because he was nice to eaton and mrs. Eaton. Well, so the whole cabinet is wiped out. Eaton resigns and others are forced to resign. Polk comes into office and i ;c think one of the reasons that he didnt dump buchanan was because he didnt want that same sort of image that had haunted jackson. He didnt want anybody to leave the cabinet over a controversy. He led george bancroft, his secretary of the navy, to become minister to great britain, but he kept that cabinet as much in intact as he could, even though he was constantly at war with buchanan in the cabinet meetings. You have all of the names in your book back in those years. Martin van buren goes on after president to run again. He runs. You know, polks election was more than remarkable. It is astounding. Its richard nixon. James k. Polk served as speaker of the house and while hes in speaker of the house jacksons support at home in tennessee begins to wane. The year hes speaker. He became speaker in in 1833 and served three terms. 0gu he ran in 1833 and lost to his fellow tennesseean john bell. He beat bell the following year and then was reelected. As speaker. So hes reelected for two terms. Now hes watching from the hill. While hes in congress, and this debacle occurs over this scandal in the jackson cabinet. And i think he looks at that and said, the country was almost paralyzed, the government was not functional during that period, and president jackson was old and couldnt function. He really loved Andrew Jackson. Admired Andrew Jackson. But he didnt make the same mistakes that jackson had made. For example, when he becomes president , jackson has two requests of him. Keep Francis Blair as the editor of our party newspaper. And called . What was it called . The paper. The paper was the union. Keep Francis Blair in, and he fires him. Jackson says, keep my old friend who was actually a resident at the white house while jackson was there. Keep him in the treasury department. It was almost a sinecure that jackson had given to his old friend from the white house whose name at the moment has fled, but it will be back. But he says to polk, keep him. The man had never been kind to polk. He had been rude to polk. And polk dumped him. Jackson had kept him there during the van buren administration, even in the whig administration of tyler. Let me just highlight a point you made about the union. Right. What business was it of the president of either Andrew Jackson or james polk to name the editor of the union . In those days a newspaper was an arm of the party, the wing of the party. I mean, the madison was a newspaper that was created not for a party but for a cause. Really designed to to promote an economic policy. And Francis Blair headed the party paper. And when polk dumped him, he brought in Thomas Richie from richmond, another editor, and put richie in, in charge of the party newspaper. When i was reading it again i was thinking about today where the democrats are trying to start this network, this right. To get somebody to challenge rush limbaugh. To have somebody challenge the conservative talk show host. How long were you with the National Tennessean . Off and on for 40 years and i joined the Kennedy Administration for a couple of years but i was there for 43 years and editor and publisher for 30. And you were editorial director of the usa today newspaper for how long . Director of usa today for ten years. How long did you work for Bobby Kennedy . Two years. Reading back in those days and just thinking today the number of people in politics now in the media, is there any real change after all these years . Yeah. What is the change . The ability of the party to control the news media simply doesnt exia and i think that there are some people who watch television today and see echoes of one party or another and some of the formats and there is some niche marketing in television news, i think. Particularly in the cable area. I think most people identify fox in that way as sort of an echo of the presidency. But i look at it and the independence is there. And the idea that the administration could control fox or cnbc or cnn i think is out of the question. You youve got our own Television Star in your family. I do have. What is your relationship to John Seigenthaler of nbc . I am the father of the John Seigenthaler. I say i used to be John Seigenthaler. And im very proud of him. Who is the Jack Seigenthaler . The Jack Seigenthaler is haz his is his son. 6yearold Jack Seigenthaler is a John Seigenthaler. But you dedicate your book to him. I dedicate my book to Jack Seigenthaler. In the midst of the writing, one day i was writing on a deadline, and he said, could i use the computer . And i said, jack, im really working for the next halfhour on the polk book. And i turned back to the computer and on my desk behind me now were the 12 volumes of polks correspondence and the four volumes of his diary and the four biographies that i mentioned, by jenkins, mccormick, and seller and i hear him read, polk, this is polk, thats polk. Gran, do we really need another book on polk . What did you say . I said, i hope so, jack. Well find out. Does he know the book is dedicated to him . He does. And hes proud of it and took a copy of it to school with him. And so hes its interesting to me that 6yearold children, one, are interested in removing their grandparents from the computer so they could get at it and beyond that are able to read and comprehend. Tm the last time i was there i read a little polk to him before he went to bed and he asked an awful lot of questions because there are words there that are beyond obviously a 6yearold. Go back to the war. The mexican war started when . The mexican war started in 1846. He sends Zachary Taylor down 5l to the conflict was started over the mexican border. Eight years eight years earlier we had the alamo in n50 goliad, and then sam houston, tennesseean, friend of polk, then sam houston defeats santa ana and they get santa ana to agree that the line between the two countries, between the independent republic of texas and mexico, he agrees that that will be the line. The rio will be the line. The Mexican Parliament doesnt accept that but, of course, texans do. W÷÷hh÷ and so that land between the river and the rio, about 150 miles, represents what texas considers the new border and what polk considers the new border. And there comes a time when mexico declares war on the United States. Because it is going to annex texas. And polk is coming into office, and polk really wants congress to get annexation of texas started before he takes over. And he works with congress to get that done. Then the mexicans react angrily and there comes a time when the cabinet suggests that he send Zachary Taylor, general Zachary Taylor, who became the next whig president , and he sends Zachary Taylor down and he says if they come across, if they come across and attack, consider it an attack on the country. And go in to mexico and take as much as you can. And so that is what happens. A small party of mexicans ambush a small party of u. S. Soldiers and taylor goes in and takes palo alto, takes risaca de palma, and captures them and the war is on. Stop just a second. In context of today, you have winfield scott, who is down there as a general, working for james polk, the president. Zachary taylor is down there. Zachary taylor goes on to be president , what, in 48 . Yeah. uju qq 1848. Lqe and winfield scott, two terms, later is the republican nominee. What year is it that Abraham Lincoln stands up on the floor of the house and says, im against this . That was in 1848 as polk is about to go out. I had a great conversation with doris kearns goodwin, who is doing, i think, a similar book on lincoln about this. And the question is whether lincoln lost he was a freshman congressman. ,q you mentioned william marcy. He was secretary of war. And you say his famous saying that still lives today. To the victim goes the spoils. But it seems like in this little book all this stuff youve got james polk at the center, Abraham Lincoln on the floor, he becomes president. Winfield scott is the candidate for the whigs in 52. Taylor wins in 48 for the whigs. John c. Freemont, the pathfinder, goes out to california and gets involved in a big dispute. He chooses the wrong way. His fatherinlaw is back in washington, the powerful friend of polk. The senator, not the artist. The senator. The senator. And fremont thinks im going to get into this thing on stocktons side. And my fatherinlaw will take care of me but it doesnt happen. Fremont is courtmartialed and polk, hes charged with mutiny and disobedience. Polk dismissed the mutiny charge but upholds the second. By the way, the story about thomas and the shooting of Andrew Jackson, how did that happen . That goes way back to the time jackson was in tennessee and Thomas Hart Benton and his brother jesse were in tennessee at that time, before the bentons went to missouri. And jesse benton, there was a duel, and jesse benton really offended jackson by sort of serving as a second in that duel. And they attacked jackson one day in a building on the streets of nashville and they run him through, shoot him and almost kill him. And the bentons shortly thereafter left for missouri, where Thomas Benton became a senator. Goes to washington and then the friends of Andrew Jackson, they become close friends. Jesse benton never, never made it up with jackson, but benton was a friend of jackson in washington and became a friend of polk. You have another story about sam houston and a congressman and when there was a caning outside of the house. Thats right. At that time houston was living with the indians. And houston was accused by this member of congress of using it for financial gain. And houston tried to attack him on the floor. Hes a former member of congress, but then waits for him with, what else, a hickory cane and canes him, almost killed him. And he is tried before the house. James k. Polk defends houston and they give him a tap on the wrist. Ill tell you, if everybody who was anybody in history intersects with the life of james k. Polk. Let me do this quickly because we are running out of time. Go back to north carolina. Do you go to macklenburg county . I did not. But just go quickly through james k. Polks life up to the time that he became president , so we can get it on the record. He was born in macklenburg county. Near charlotte. Little sugar creek. He had a very agrarian upbringing. He went to sort of seasonal schools. When hes 8, his grandfather has moved to middle tennessee and has found really a paradise. And so sam, his father, and his mother go over the mountains and settle in middle tennessee. And there he grows up. Again, a very sickly child and so sickly that hes not able to do all the work in the fields that other children are expected to do. At one point, his father wants to make him a merchant. A young boy, puts him in the store, it doesnt work. What he really wants is an education. And after the operation his father finally sends him to a formal education. First, a little Seminary School near where they lived in tennessee, then to murfeesboro, and then finally, university of north carolina, where he entered as a sophomore and finished, graduated first in his class. Spoke at the graduation. And spoke at the graduation. And he was political from the outset. He was fortunate in that he fell into the arms of the great tennessee lawyer, felix grundy, later attorney general of the United States, United States senator. And grundy mentored him at large. In those days lawyers trained in the chambers of distinguished lawyers. How many times was he elected to office, to any office . Well, he was elected once to the tennessee legislature, seven times to congress, once as governor, and once as president. Before we run out of time, you did the show like this for how many years . 32 years now. Are you still doing it . Ive had you on that show and its been great to have you there and its great to be here. Are you still doing that . Im still doing that show. Where do you do it . It appears in nashville sunday morning, and i do an interview with authors. How many shows a year . During the annual southern book festival i do 15, which is a weeklong show, and i do about 40 shows a year. Why do you do it . I do it because i love books and i love to read and i love people who write. How many books have you written . Well, i ive had published a couple of books or columns or articles that i wrote, and ive had chapters in books but id have to say this is my first real experience as an author. What do you think of it now that youre on the other side . Im now in the process of writing another book. Im going to write a book on a woman named alice paul whos an unknown heroine of the suffragist movement. Everything she did for the suffragists, civil rights demonstrators, went through 1915 to the 1950s, so 35 years later. On that little note, before we really just run out of time, he was a slaveholder, james k. Polk. How many slaves did he own and what happened at the end . He owned more than 40, and he owned them on his mississippi plantation and his property in tennessee. In his will, he left all his slaves to his wife for her lifetime and then they would be freed. She lived until she was 80 years old and so lincoln had freed the slaves long before sarah died, s but polk, he said it was a common evil. You would think as a oneterm president , he was not planning to run for reelection, he might have taken some steps late in life to provide some leadership. You understand why he didnt during a Political Campaign because you couldnt take that position. Were out of time. Do you still go to the Office Every Day . I go to the Office Every Day. First amendment center. Vanderbilt university. Great to be with you, brian. Our author has been john siegenthaler, and the title of the book is james k. Polk. The times book series on president s. Thank you very much. First ladies, influence and image. American history tv has interviews with top historians. Tonight, Mary Todd Lincoln and eliza johnson. Tonight at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv, on cspan 3. American history tv on cspan 3, every weekend. Coming up sunday, beginning at 9 00 a. M. Eastern, were marking the 70th anniversary of the korean war, live on washington journal and American History tv, with charles hanley, author o of ghost flames korea, 1950 to 53. And sunday at 4 00 p. M. , reel america starts with to help peace survive. And at 7 00 p. M. On oral histories, alan clark on serving two tours in korea between 1950 and 1953. Exploring the american story. Watch American History tv this weekend on cspan 3. Every saturday night, American History tv takes you to College Classrooms around the country for lectures in history. Why do you all know who Lizzie Borden is, and raise your hand if you had ever heard of this murder, the gene harris murder trial, before this class. The deepest cause where well find the true meaning of the revolution was in this transformation that took place in the minds of the american people. Were going to talk about both of these sides of the story here. Right . The tools, the techniques of slave owner power, and well also talk about the tools and techniques of power that were practiced by enslaved people. Watch history professors lead discussions with their students on topics ranging from the American Revolution to september 11th. Lectures in history on cspan3, every saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv. And lectures in history is available as a podcast. Find it where you listen to podcasts. Sarah polk was very up on diplomacy and her strong suit happened to be intelligent political discussion. She made no bones about the fact that she really took an interest in politics. And that she was her husbands partner. She grew up in a political