By having a homosexual couple. Say something to the press. How do you feel about being here today . I feel it is beautiful. Its fantastic. How many years have you been a homosexual . I was born homosexual. It is beautiful. Has the new movement given you added pride or incentive . Yes. I was sorry not to see though there was not some politician or something here with us today. I think he should have made it a point to be here today as well as possibly some of the gay Movement Organizers themselves. At least they might have been here but they didnt speak out to us and they should have. Also i think this should have been the United States flag at the beginning of the flag which i didnt see but i think people were very well behaved, very well mannered. I think the police respected us. And i think it was a showing that we are really making it. Because if two homosexuals can live together and thrive and be constructive rather than destructive to each other and themselves without legal bonds, without children, without the sanction of the great society, then they can demonstrate to heterosexuals they need not be so concerned with their property and their marriage and divorce laws. You think that youre happier now that youve realized exactly where your feelings lie . Indeed. I am just sorry that it took so long. I am sorry i spent so many years in the closet. I mean it finally comes down to finding one other person to love and be loved by first lady influence and image on American History tv examines the private lives and the public roles of the nations first ladies through interviews with top historians. Tonight we look at the first two first ladies, Martha Washington and abigail adams. Watch first ladies influence and image tonight at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv on cspan 3. The president , from public affairs. Available now in paperback and e book. Presents biographies of every president organized by their ranking by noted historians from best to worst. And features perspectives into the lives of our nations chief executives and leadership styles. Visit our website, cspan. Org the president s to learn more about each president and historians featured and order your copy today wherever books and ebooks are sold. Up next on American History tv a discussion on the 1959 police raid on the Stonewall Inn in new york city and how it sparked the gay rights movement. This is from a National Law Enforcement museum in washington, d. C. It is my pleasure and honor to be back with you and back as we stream as well looking back on 50 years. Where we were 50 years ago at the stonewall riots and how far weve come. The changes that have been made and the changes still to come. Before we get started id like to introduce our esteemed panel if we can starting with david carter the author of stonewall, the riots that sparked the gay revolution. The basis for American Experience the film stonewall uprising which won a peabody award. Also with us today is detective Brian Downing president of the Gay Officers Action League goal of new york which is addressing the needs and issues and concerns of the Lgbt Community. Also on hand with us today is lieutenant bret parson, district native. How many years on the force . 26. 26 years. And he manages you should know the departments lesbian, gay, transsexual, transgender liaison here in d. C. And mr. Prescott, journalist, novelist, screenwriter as well and columnist for salon so thank you all for taking part in this today. I look forward to learning a lot and looking back with you through your eyes and perspectives on where we were 50 years ago. Its kind of hard to believe. David, id like to start with you if we can. What was new york like . What was america like for gay, lesbian, transgender citizens before the stonewall riots . What was it like for the Lgbt Community . Well, its really counterintuitive because there is a common tendency at least in this country to assume that the further we go back in history generally the worse things are actually in the whole history, in the entirety of u. S. History, the 60s and 50s were probably the very worst time for lgbt people. There had been a period of liberalization in the 1920s. We know the 1920s was a generally liberal period. But with the Great Depression comingkjpr along, that seemed begin a clamp down on, ill just use the term gay people as an umbrella term, gay people, and then after the war, we entered the, what we call the red scare. And this i think was the main reason there was so much more repression after world war ii. So for example in new york city the height of arrests to gay men actually occurred in 1966, where at that time you had on average a hundred homosexual men being arrested in new york city every week. So, you know, in the 1960s were a period of, you know, we think a time of expanding liberty, openness. It was really opposite for our people. And the another big force making that happen was the use of psychiatry. Siegemund freud, his view of homosexuality was negative but not very negative. In other words he saw the he certainly didnt think it was a severe pathology. And american was the first country to really embrace freud. When the freudian approach, the psychology was embraced by this country, american psychologists very much under the influence of the military in world war ii, they it was the american psychiatrist who really intended to really tended to pathologyize homosexuality severely. You could be put in a Mental Institution versus i mean, that could be imposed upon you. And there people had, men were castrated, lobotomies performed on them, shock therapy, and other kinds of treatments that were meant to change them from being homosexual to heterosexual or make them just asexual. And just the laws kept on multiplying all together from one state, from one institution to another. So the way the our number one historian of homosexuality in america from a legal point of view, the way he characterized it was by the 1950s and 1960s gay people really lived in a state of suffocation. It was a terrible time. I want to go back to that. The day of the raids and the riots. You were actually at Stonewall Inn, is that right . Take us back what it was like to be there. Well, the way it was accidental. I was i had just graduated from west point believe it or not. And i was spending my free, going into the army leave, in new york. I was walking from the loft i was renting to two doors down from the stonewall. And i turned the corner off waverly street on to christopher street and there it was right in front of me. They were busting the stonewall. A couple police cars pulled up on the street and probably half an hour, an hour before they were starting to bring out people in cuffs and put them in the police cars. And the crowd had gathered across the street and they were watching. Some of the people across the street had gotten out of the stonewall as the cops came in, either out the back door or around the cops and out the front door or somehow. And then the word spread what was going on on christopher street. And christopher street was the heart and soul of the Gay Community in new york. And there were a lot of gay bars and places that gay people had dinner and so forth right nearby. The cops just like going to the paddy wag ons or cars and didnt want to be recognized. People had jobs and they thought theyd lose their jobs or would be exposed to their wives if they were married or whatever. And thats what the police were used to. Well, they busted the stonewall and the stonewall is known for serving under age people. It had a sound system in the back room and there was dancing and it was kind of a wild place. The people they busted at the stonewall werent like that. They didnt have jobs. They didnt have anything to lose. A lot of them were 17, 18 years old. When they came out of the bar they were posing and waving to their friends and calling out and saying, you know, come down and can you get my bail . And acting like it was, you know, there was nothing to it. Theyd been busted before. Didnt bother them. And the cops didnt like it. They didnt have that fear so many had before. No. They didnt behave like frightened gay people and the cops didnt like it and the cops didnt like them standing and posing and waving and so the cops started pushing them with their night sticks and shoving them roughly in the cars and the crowd started reacting to it and yelling at the cops and throwing pennies at first and calling them pigs. It sort of went south from there. I mean, right after i got there was when all the throwing and so forth started. This went on through the night and then was it the next night where you had hundreds if not thousands come back . Yes. The next night was the night the Tactical Patrol force was sent in. There were hundreds on the street if not a couple thousand. And it went on for on friday night it didnt go on for real long because the bust took place. They tried to get them in the cars. When the gay people got angry and started throwing stuff at the cops the cops retreated, went inside the stonewall. I was outside. That was when they broke the front window, threw things through the window. Started a fire. Took a parking meter and used it to ram the door. That sort of thing. And then the cops, reinforcements came from the 6th precinct and scattered the crowd and the cops came back out and, you know, within a couple of hours it was over. But saturday night went on for hours. Arent you brian, i wao ask you because its in the news, your commissioner, commissioner oneill issued a apology on behalf of the nypd for the raids. Give us some insight into the apology and goal . What was the goal and how do you view the apology . I take the apology for what it is, the apology. Im not thinking much behind it for a number of different reasons, mainly because it was a moment that nobody thought would ever happen. And i think if you know anything about commissioner oneill, its who i know quite well, hes probably the first humanitarian Police Commissioner weve had in new york city. Not this mold of a rock star Police Commissioner, we had him there for 12 years. Thats an eternity for a new york city Police Commissioner. These are big giant media personalities, and the commissioner oneill kind of calls it as he sees it. He was a cop his whole career, and i think hes the only cup commissioner in the last few years capable to bringing himself to apologize or acknowledge a role in our transgression,s or our mess ups. He also issued an apology to the rape victim two years ago with some sentences there directed at the Lgbtq Community. Im not here as his ambassador, but he does lean on my organization heavily for advice. He keeps me on my staff and my role in the Police Department, he also has the former leader of the organization as a lgbtq liaison. Hes interested and wants to know the we forward. He wants to know how the community feels. Sometimes i wish that our community would be more engaging. I wont get into the specifics of the meetings, thats not the present goal. I think sometimes other communities it seems are more willing to go in and kind of speak, and speak clearly. There are a little bit more organized, it just seems that we can never come to an agreement on anything and that is sometimes troubling. Lets talk about our community, Greater Washington if we can for a minute. I want to ask you, we came off a parade that d. C. Was very involved in, a festival next day, hundreds of thousands showed up. You have seen the demographics in your hometown washington d. C. Change here, youve seen acceptance change over the decades. Talk a little bit about your role in the liaison and what you think . I think the first thing that Everybody Knows here is that washington d. C. Is not any different from new york city aside from that its massive and has a lot more people. New york city in 1969 was the same as washington d. C. In terms of values, common practices, we had a moral division, we were cracking down on bars and arresting people for the same types of offense is that you talk about hundreds of men were being arrested for. Our hands are not clean here in washington d. C. , while it was a commissioner oneill who may have apologized on the half of nypd, when he did that i think that he was apologizing as a leader of a lot enforcement, because nypd is a leader around the world. He said this is not the way that this should be handled, this is not the way that anyone should be treated ever, weve come a long way. Here in washington d. C. Despite whatever the National Politics are, it doesnt matter whos an office, weve always been a liberal and open city for people to live and work in. Weve had a human rights activist since that in 77 which has included gender expression, gender identity. Weve had openly lgbt members of our city council, and we have one of the most progressive groups in our gay and lesbian activist alliance. Going as far back as the 1970s, those groups immediately after stonewall started to work not just here in washington d. C. But the nationally to try to change things. Washington d. C. Became a bit of a laboratory for many of the things that have spread throughout the United States and the world. One of those that we are proud of is the emergency liaison, its the name back, then we changed it to be the lgbtq liaison unit to be more inclusive. What we did in 1998, 1999, we recognize that while Community Policing works all over the world, robert peel created it back in london. The idea of placing officers in certain communities is very good for accountability but sometimes you have to police and manage differently. Thats what we do. We look at communities demographically. We have a lgbtq commission, i have one of our officers working in the Jewish Community, asian community, deaf and hard of hearing community. Its not that were doing the same work as other officers, but were focusing on certain communities that have a shared concern, sheer traits, whether it be communication, history of abuse like the Lgbtq Community has had over the years. So not if a crisis occurs but when it occurs like happened on saturday at our pride parade, we have relationships and people know that they can count upon us and they recognize us, hopefully we can calm peoples fears. We talk about acceptance of residents and the people that you work with and serve, what about people on the force who are openly gay and now who can be years ago . How important is that, and when did it start that they were welcome and embraced . How long has it been . I dont, know im waiting for it. You made a face just so you know. Poker face. No i think the trajectory of queer people in society and a lot enforcement in the criminal Justice System is the same. I dont think that under any circumstances i would say that lgbtq people are at home yet in this nation, and because we have shows on tv with gay characters and things like that, thats not the measure of home for me. I would say that first of all, so the organization stemmed from charlie outdid himself in 1981, you had a key rights bill before city council, now your ordinance here in 1977 included gay people. Gender expression, gender identity. Gender a density and gender expression was added later. I have my experts here making sure i give the right information. Your a year ahead of us, in 81 there is a contentious hearing in the city council chamber. I think it was the Vice President or president who issued a strong worded contribution in an editorial, we cant have queer cops, theres no such thing as gay cops, etc. I have this viral testimony, so now who is going to testify next but a new York City Police activist . Now they are brewing when he is introduced, he steps in front of the microphone and he says not only am i proud to be a new York City Police officer, but im proud to be a gay man. From people that i know in the chamber that day, its never been louder than it was in that moment, in 1981. So we fast forward a few months and the organization has been founded. The first meeting took place in st. Josephs, church in granite village. They met in protection of other cops, because nobody wanted this meeting to happen. There was a bomb threat called into charlies home, and even going further than that there was always a threat to the meetings these men met in secrecy very often. We go now for almost 15 years or 14 years i think, the lawsuit was filed by tommy jeans, edgar rodriguez, and they were represented by two attorneys, the executive director. This is 96 and it was settled in 97. For 15 years they wanted absolutely nothing to do with us. Since, then every Single Initiative the nypd has had for lgbtq people has been geared by goal individually, or geared by goal as members of the Police Department kind of jointly. So we marked for the first time in uniform in 1977. It took until 2002 for the gay officers to be fully accepted and what they refer to at least in the nypd, where more than a nypd organization we represent awful time criminal justice employees in the interest of the community. Were talking about please state, federal, its up the committees until 2002 until the president was able to sit in on meetings with other president s of their recognized fraternal organizations. So were not really talking about ancient history here. The discrimination that we used to see, and we used to get reports of wouldbe things like a locker would be turned upside down. Personal property was destroyed. Hate speech was used. Now i see different discrimination incidents, or what gets reported to me. I find that oftentimes our members have lewis desirable assignments outside of commands wheth