Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Idea Of Deep State In American Hi

Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Idea Of Deep State In American History 20240713

Aaron owe control and teach at university of texas in austin. Im pleased to share this panel today on the deep state. Joining me here to talk about this quite important topic are three fantastic historians all of whom study politics and power in American History. Professor beverly gauge of yale. And balker of duke and p professor allen of Northwestern University. Im going to set the stage with four or five minutes of introductory remarks and then introduce each panelist individually before they speak 15, 20 minutes apiece and then well open the floor to discussion in this roundtable. Were here today to talk about the ore ethic origins and effects of what we call the deep state. This is not really new. Today we call it the deep state, in earlier eras activists spoke about the washington establishment, the power elite, the system, and even the military Industrial Complex. Even though those terms varied throughout the ages they usually share a lot in comment so the arguments that typically accompany these terms about the deep state or the washington system theyre almost always conspirity, almost always talk about a cabal in the government thats working in secret to drive policy towards their own ends, the cabals own ends, not the common good. The actual people in the deep state seem to range all over the map. Depending on the politics of whomever is talking. They could be the intelligence agencies, the cia, the fbi, the military, the National Security council, the bankers and the globalists, the fossil fuel companies, or unspecified elites, but they almost always have or are pursuing some sort of effort that undermines the government. The core message over and over again. Is that this cabal is either il legitimate itself, its making the government illedge il legitimate or in cahoots with those. The arguments really span the political divide. In this redblue state america, you can find common usage of the deep state on both sides. Today we hear mostly about it from donald trump and his allies in the Republic Party who want to cast doubt on lawful enforcement, fbi, at times cia. Not long ago there was a alleged compliance between deep state alliance with companies driving policy in iraq and even afghanistan. So where did these terms come from. How new are they . Did they come from the United States . Were they imported from outside the United States . And perhaps the most important question by my like even more important than asking where they came from is where are they going and what deeper cultureal currents are empowering and propelling these arguments forward, giving them force. cur propelling these arguments forward, giving them force. Al currents are empowering and propelling these arguments forward, giving them force. Historians like to look for what persistent on commonality persist over time that produce a common response even if it has different names in different places. Thats what were going to do with our introduction and remarks. Well speak about 15 minutes each and then open the floor to the audience and have a round table discussion on the deep state. So our first panelist is michael j allen, associate professor of history at Northwestern University where he researches the history, memory and politics of the american empire in the 20th century. Hes the author of until the last man came home. Pow. And i just want to add after teaching it this past semester for the first time it taught me an enormous amount about the strange, strange legacies about the pow flags i see in every cremet airy and parade i go to. Learned a lot about ross parot too. He is working on new book problem of democratic power. 19331981. It offers the first indepth study how debates sparked by america and vietnam altered the post World War Two u. S. Policy. So will talk about the legacy of distrust on the cold war era shape the conversation today. On the deep state today. Id like to start by thanking aaron for stepping in. Our original chair and commentator robert dean is unable to be here due to family emergency to call him away and aaron is generous enough to join us today and im sure he will add valuable insight to the conversation later. Let me get start sod we have plenty of time to have that conversation. My task here, i think, is in part to lay out the what the current conversation about the deep state is in the United States and talk about american thinking on this problem of state power, particularly in the post world war ii era and how it led us to the current moment. In the deep state, army of bureaucratic krats working with davey obrien defined his subject as the permanent class of democrats, republicans, federal bureaucratic kr bureaucrats a entrenched trying to destroy President Trump. Aided by trumps endorsement over twitter, debuted at 7 on the list joining book of the scheme to frame clinton and trump and debuted at one on the list spent ten weeks there and fox news, who had liars and leakers and liberals debuted at one and spent 13 weeks on the list. For those with the hand out you can see these are just three of the many, many books k. That have been published by trump insiders. Supporters. Fox news it analysts and the like. Over the past 18 months or so. These three titles which were all on the New York Times best seller list at the same time in the fall of 2018 improved on the performance of course killing the deep state, the fight to save President Trump which just spent three weeks on the New York Times list earlier in 2018 but like other trump operatives and supporters over the past year of course he had the distinction battling the deep state beyond the page having been called before a grand jury in testifying his role in coordinating the Trumps Campaign dealings with wiki leaks about plans to push russian hacked email to dnc servers in the 2016 election. Having argue in print the Russian Investigation was quote a deep state plan to put president under investigation with unlimited scope, unquote. Of course he couldnt be surprised when fbi agents knocked on his door with subpoenas to testify which he called to force lying testimony if thats what it takes to achieve deep state political objectives. After all special Counsel Robert Mueller was a deep state operative who served both bush and Obama Administration as attorney general from 2001 to 2013 and in fact mueller was director of the fbi not attorney general. An error typical of his work but makes dill difference given the conspiracy of his work, which i include in this page which you want to look at, its fairly amazing, which included quote the cia, nsa, and other intelligence agencies that maintain a commitment to a globalist new world order in cooperation with the federal reserve, the comp troller of the occurrencery as well as federal Law Enforcement agencies including the fbi, and doj to include il listit drug dealings and to terrorist groups to further the goals of the global elite who control the International Nations and Monetary Fund and european union. Couldnt get it out in a single breath. Last week dismissed this cast of characters as a simple side show it must be emphasized how centralized these ideas are to foreign politics and International Relations at the present moment and are clearly engaged and taken serious gli by the president and advisor and les most is avid supporters and motivated couldnt kwent marshall p firingful the Tevin Coleman and sflm 1kw679 zbraexts 12k3w45e789z zmufrpt dplovrmtd 1y6789 . [ reading ] is [ reading ] these examples are only the tip of the iceberg just as mueller is for trump space only visible sign of a deeper problem. The deep state trump and those around him describe a broader system of il legitimate, power that they see concentrate in washington and extending to new york, paris, berlin and branches in london and menlow park, including the key elements of military and financial might in europe and includes mooelds and intelligence that dominate the Global Economy and gio politics. As it has been put u. S. President s come and go, Political Parties win one election and win the next but the deep state goes on. Its the state within a state. What trump calls the swamp. At other times the elites. These ideas are broadly understood. March 2018 poll showed just 37 of americans had heard of the deep state or are familiar with that nomanclature. Trump war with his is fundamental from his hatred of the press and ed to his embrace of program regimes to contempt of diplomacy. Be ed ed since Richard Nixons election republics have prided themselves on close ties to the Nations Armed forces and National Security agencies while blasting democrats as weak on defense. Democrats have tried to disprove such charges both bill clinton and barack obama regularly appointing republicans as secretary of defense and naming republican hold overs that 367 zblavpt 235078d k34r8gsds 3wrz 14r50uksz 12k3wr09sd 12y50u6r7 2340e78sz among with keep Robert Mueller on with the fbi is in part responsible for the idea of permanent security establishment in the current moment. Former staffer put it in his 2016 book the deep state, did hope and change really change anything . And that is not just a question that he asks of course is a question sarah palin asked hows that hope and change thing working out for you. Given this history it is a surprise to see a republican president embroiled with such bureaucracy including james comey who trump fired, after taking office, and former cia director john brenn an who trump threatened to strip of security clearance after he was accusing trump of treason along with mueller and his witch hunt of the administration. Trumps hostilility towards these men surprised washington more than anyone. When trump took to twitter in 2016 to needle brennan on the intelligence briefing on the socalled quote russian hacking unquote to suggest more time was needed to build a case. Chuck schumer took to cnn to warm hip. You take on the intelligence they get back at you. Two and half months later, trump remains unbowed by washingtons rules and democrats have no plan for bringing him to heel beyond hoping mueller will testify into capable hill in ways proved incapable of doing themselves which under scores the question who really rules washington, elected officials or washington boourkt burkts. Bureaucrats. Eaucrats. Bureaucrats. Accused of ties to Vladimir Putin who illegally invade the crimea and thought to have murdered political opponents saying our country does plenty of killing. Causing House Committee adam schiff to say this is bizarre and untrue. Does he not see the damage he does with comments like that. Most assuredly trump does but we may want to debate just how scholarly it is, deep state deceptions are not designed to deceive americans enemies but to deceive americans conditioning them to accept security measures at home and abroad. Trump and inhouse intellectuals are teaching voters to think in these terms which once were reserved for graduate seminars, via his own reality show, theatricics. These ideas predate trump and imfist industrily they explain his rise. First and foremost, accounts for the growing inequivalent inequivalent in ality inequivalent in second, it explains the oddly birfurcated power in the United States where they seem unable to address basic needs of american. Finally, explains why political movements and politicians they send to washington to effect change have found themselves stymied that every turn defined as il legitimate and unamerican by government insiders who resurgents dont respect but cant convict of power. Each liberals legitimate and una by government insiders who resurgents dont respect but cant convict of power. Each liberals all were present at the creation if you will at the National Security state and i existed alongside permanent war United States into 1941. Opposition to an enlarged military establishment he and his successor harry truman helps to create. Senators like robert taft warned put the nation on slippery slope. Tafts successors made peace with the Security State left liberals came to suspect the cold war sensor require substitute of promise and 4 20 for the promise of social democrats offered in the new deal. The 1956 book the power elite argued as American Power expanded in the 40s 507bds it became concentrated among small executive decision makers, the ones who decide, who operated to a military definition of reality. Formed and reenforced through what he called administrative routines in small, closedin tim at group thats were inaccessible to the public rather than to paint in economic terms as progressive historian might, mills emphasized the interlocking and overlapping nature of corporate and state power. In washington as well as on you wall street and at west point he argued that a small group of men gained power through appointments rather than elections with unified authority unchallenged by politicians in congress where he said differences between the two parties so far as National Issues are concerned are very narrow and very mixed up. Mills contemporaries soon coined the phrase the establishment to describe this power elite. Interestingly, conservative f buckley claimed to have used the wortd the establishment in a speech to the National War College in 1956 admitting the audience was confused by its meaning. But buckley borrowed the term from british journalist who used to in 195 5 to refer to the matrix of official and social relations within which power is exercised. The web of associations so dense and assumptions so deep they dont need to be articulated. Mills himself referred in his work what he called the executive establishment, the military establishment, the permanent war establishment and the National Establishment throughout his book. The establishmented he used is a general term for those who hold the principle machine your of power and influence in this country irrespective of what administration occupies the white house. The perfect establishment figure agreed harvard economist was quote the republic called to service in a Democratic Administration or the vice versusa. They were, he equipped, the pivotal figures who made possible the cold war consensus. For mills, galgrij and contemporary vision historians who were busy redefining u. S. Diplomatic history in 50s and 60s to emphasize continuity and consensus rather than conflict and rupture there was something inherently suspect about shape shifters who won power by forged consensus behind closed doors. They these men raised a generation of new left scholars and activists who learn to executeinize washingtons best and brightest in order to explain how and why u. S. Leaders embarked on disasters in cuba, vietnam, iran, chili and the Watergate Complex in the 60s and 70s. And they blamed figures like george bundy, the republic turned accolade turned phd who led two democrat president s to disaster as National Security advisor. Henry kissinger who worked in the white house. For what was called the convergence between the republic and democrats parties to eliminate Foreign Policy from campaigns. Both sides as well as the tom haydens of sds agreed the only way to fix the broken system of misgovernance and quote establish greater democrats if democracy in america was to abolish the Political Party stalemate in favor of what sds called two genuine parties centered around issues and essential values as it was put in a statement. Both sides set out to do just that. Reformers who stripped conservative cold war democrats of power through reform, while conservatives purge rockefeller republicans from their ranks. Backed by liberals who launched hearings in 1966 ending with Church Committee hearings in 1975 which dragged deep state dirty laundry into the harsh light of public scrutiny and National Public security establishment found itself under siege and drift, wandering in the wilderness of electoral dominance of insurgence of those such as jimmy carter and ronald reagan. In that state hunkering down into what we call the deep state to reemerge with new power after 9 11 but perhaps with no Greater Public legitimatecy. To conclude. What take away does this history offer as we puzzle over the deep state in current politics and what can discourse about it teach diplomatic historians how we can approach the foreign relations. Id like to offer three thoughts to keep brief and hope to elaborate on q a. First public distrust of National Security state is not new nor limit the to the political fringe. Second, the persistence of public debate about the proper role of the authority of the establishment highlights the importance of the diplomatic history that look to internal dynamics and conditions to explain u. S. Actions in the world. Third an finally this history demonstrates danger empire postseasons to democracy and trumps power feeds on the same fears of imperial power that motivated you u. S. Histories in 60s 70s and beyond however unlikely it is that trump will address th

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