Transcripts For CSPAN3 Oral Histories Benjamin Schleider Int

Experiences with the sixth Armored Division in european theater, including fighting in the battle of the bulge. Mr. Slater served as an aide and shared stories about patton. The National World War Ii Museum conducted this interview in 2009 for its oral history collection. 2009. Is august 5, thomas with the National World War Ii Museum. Today i am with Esther Benjamin schleider. For the record, please state your full name. Olafchleider benjamin schleider. Were reborn . Mr. Schleider texas. When were you born . One of the things i remember is, my grandfather, who was a very successful is businessman, was nra, theppy with the National Coverage at recovery act. He had a lot of choice words to say about that. I also remember, we had some tom operations in addition the business my father was in. To,we had to kill cattle for some reason, it was part of the program. And it was very distressing to my family to have cattle killed. We tried to process as much of the meat as possible. And preserve it. Course, we were very frugal. I came from a family that was very german. Had comeal grandfather from germany. And done well as a businessman. He and my father went into business together. Things i always mused about was my father making the payroll for the family business. On saturdaye home and tell my mother that, well, weve made the payroll. He was very proud of the fact that they never missed the. Ayroll during the depression they tried very hard to keep the employees. One of the things that was important to him was continued employment, because he was very, very loyal to him, and they to him. And he sold his business, he sold to a man who agreed to maintain the employees, and some of them are still in that business, which is still going. But, it was a hard time and we finances,of on our things of that sort. Besides cattle, what else did you have . Was it strictly cattle . Mr. Schleider the business was not cattle, the business was a very prosperous, at one time, mercantile business and a saloon. The saloon, of course, was closed when prohibition became the law of the land. There were other things about theression that were limits on things we could do. We didnt take vacations, things of that sort. But, we all got along well. What were you doing before the war broke out . Mr. Schleider well, i was in in mayhool and graduated 1939. Course, in september 1939 the war began. Started at texas a m college in the fall of 1939. On i was involved with the war until the end of the war. Indirectly or directly. Did you join the are the rotc . Mr. Schleider yes. At the time what to a m, we a core, all, it was men, all military. It provided lots of officers for the service. And still does. That has large core been maintained since 1876. How long did you attend anam . M . A and we graduated earlier because we went the last year of our college careers, 12 months. Or, two years and 12 months. Two years of college, and 12 months. That is very accelerated. [laughter] so, what happened next . Graduation,r on one night, and the next morning the entire class came down to Houston Armed forces recruiting , andon to take physicals everybody that past was sworn into the army as corporals. We didnt get to go to summer camp, so we had to go to our branch ocs. Where was the ocs . Mr. Schleider there were different ones. I happen to go to artillery. Quartermaster, those of the primary ones. Tank destroyer. That was a new branch in the army by then. Where did you end up going . Mr. Schleider i went to the artillery school. And how was it . Was it challenging compared to your previous military channing training . Mr. Schleider we had an edge over i think we had an edge over people who did not have military experience. Limited exposure. We had four years of artillery,nd it was primarily updates wringing us current on the doctrine that was being practiced in the field. The first things we did were firing and it was a 16 week course. Class of 63with my on may 6, 1943. Where did you go after . Campchleider i went to roberts, california. There i had, we were asked for sources four choices. I selected armored artillery, which put me in the sixth Armored Division at camp cook, california, which is now Brandenburg Air Force base. So you are transferred after that . Mr. Schleider i was transferred to the sixth and remained with the sixth throughout the war, in different categories. Ask how long did you stay at camp cook . How long did you stay at camp cook . Mr. Schleider i got there in the fall of 1943, and we left there in january of 1944. Did you travel to go to the east coast . Mr. Schleider we went by trains, troop trains from camp cook to camp shanks, new york. Was in new york, but it was right across the line from new jersey. Human distant you disembark from there . We left the 44th street. We left the 44th street pier in new york. And traveled by a convoy of ships to glasgow, scotland. Did you have evasive maneuvers . Mr. Schleider we work pretty well secured. Recall. Us 11 days, as i at one point there was a change, because part of the convoy went to the south of england, and we continued north to glascow. Remember, we had some pretty rough weather. I was fortunately not seasick, us the queen mary would pass coming and going. [laughter] she would come over the horizon and be gone in two hours. But she had no escort and 20 or 30 knots faster than submarines. She had no escort, but we had a battleship escort and several destroyers. One, small aircraft carrier. You are well protected . Mr. Schleider yeah, we were. We got one alert, as i recall. Very heavy weather, because we were in the north atlantic, close to iceland, then ducked down towards scotland. So you landed in glascow . Mr. Schleider right. Where did you go from there . Mr. Schleider we were put on troop trains and went to england, a very colorful area. In Artillery Battalion i was was in a little place called finstock, right in the heart of the cotswold. They are a very distinct village. Construction like england, all of the areas have a different type of construction, and that always fascinated me. These were limestone cottages, and the villages were you to flee situated. , ourd a lot of hiking compass routes and so forth. Where did you go from there . Mr. Schleider we were in the cotswold. All of thet, division officers, this was about the first week, or shortly after the first week, assembled , near the town , forrton in the marsh indoctrination by general patton. He did this with all of the divisions that were coming into the third army. As they arrived, he would let them get settled and then he would address them. Have an assembly of their officers. A pep talk. I remember this one very vividly. I dont know whether you want me to go into that, but it was raining and it was 600 officers about who had assembled as planned. We patton to address, and were all at attention as general growth, the Division Commander, and general patton arrived. Both, cavalry uniforms both were cavalrymen. They, you know, am i off . Cut me off . Sorry. Mr. Schleider got a little allergy today. General grove had a booming voice. He called us to attention and had built a special platform for patton to use for his address. Andthey climbed up on that, gentlemen, i introduce to you general george s patton. And patton got up to the microphone and he says, anybody who wants to get there their down wept sit can sit down. We later learned. You know, i did not bring you over here to get killed, we brought you over here to kill germans. You dont have to die for your country, we want you we want them to die for theirs. All kinds of things of the sort. He says, when we get to france it was a real peptalk like you would heal in high school. Here in high school. Days,xt couple of chaplains were offended by his language. Grove andith general said that they should support his actions, his language report his actions, his language. Was careful, but he assured them that general patton was a good commander, a good leader, because he knew patton quite well. And he talked them out of taking any action. The thing smoothed over. That always was an impressive incident. [laughter] assigned to you general grove . Mr. Schleider in april i thought i was going to be courtmartialed, but we had gone out on a night problem, maybe getting in something you dont want to get involved with. It was a compass problem, in blackout. We got back and they did not have coffee or anything. I find out there was some doughnuts in the Division Artillery mass, so i got the screwdriver and got a lock off, went in there, and got them all doughnuts. I got called on the carpet for that, and i thought i was told to report to division headquarters. And i thought, my lord, im going to be courtmartialed. I met with the tier one and he said, i am interviewing you. Senior aide is going to some other assignment. Would you be interested in being aid . Al groves i was so relieved, i said oh my god, yes. [laughter] several days passed and they finally decided they wanted me to come on board. As i was leaving, my Battalion Commander said, slider, i want to tell you, you go to work for that old man you will get killed a lot sooner than you will be as a forward observer in this battalion. I remember that. A very interesting thing, working for general grove. He was a teacher. Like, you his aides are important to me and i want you to know as much about the army as you can. Do thingse, he would like, he wanted to take a ride on an experiment to see how gliders operated. So he took me along. He would do things like that. I made a glider run with one of the british writers. Riders. We did lots of travel down to wales. On one occasion patton came down, we had a live firing problem. Patton came and stayed with us, just he and his driver for couple of days. So polite, quiet. He and general grove had a lot to talk about. Were both old cavalrymen. Commanded the original Armored Division, which must strangely enough, was named the second Armored Division. Not the first. Grove was his operations officer. And was very well regarded by patton. That, for wanton of a better word, hatched a lot of very prominent generals, particularly in armor. Grove ultimately left that as a lieutenant colonel, and end up committing the sixth armored as a major general. Commanding the sixth armored as a major general. Reputation. Mr. Schleider i would say he was a front line. Respect from the troops . Mr. Schleider oh, i think so. If he and general patton had the same philosophy. They never wanted to find a commander in his command post, they wanted to go down to the firing units and see them. Many times, patton came down understand, itu was an intervening headquarters between the division and Army Headquarters. ,atton would always come down trying to inspect us or talk to grove, or see something he thought was worth talking to grove about. It was interesting that growth was frequently conferred with. I dont think this is something that, probably im not putting it well, but i think a lot of commanders and core commanders would like to get gross idea about some contemplated operation. Because he was a real leader. Fundamental armor mechanized division. In the 1930s. He was a groundup man, and he thoughtful of his troops. Phenomenalbsolute comprehension of terrain. That, no doubt, when he was in the cavalry on the texas border, when he had a sergeant who went undercover as mining engineers checking u. S. Topographic maps of northern mexico. Do a map study in his pointrs, and go out and to the names of the hills and the elevations. He was phenomenal. A greatas it was education to be with him in map reading. Among other things. But he talked to us about tactics and things, what he wanted to do, and what he thought our operations would be. It was a great learning experience. What was your First Military assignment . Your first invasion . Mr. Schleider im not sure i comprehend. Im pretty sure i dont comprehend. Onks tell me about landing utah beach. Tell me about landing on utah beach. Mr. Schleider it was an overnight run from southhampton. Grove never missed the trick. Couple of landing ship tanks that were docked and we needed ships to get our division over. Lollylogging, and he got them loaded with our people, kind of shanghaied them. It was no longer hostile landing. Want to think, the 18th of july, 1944. Landing, lst stayed offshore. G4 and i went along and Landing Craft to contact the landing officer at the beach, who was a colonel eugene caffe. Bright engineer fellow. German block house on a bluff and we went up and reported. There was a personal incident that embarrassed me. I walked in with the general and the staff and took off my headgear, laid it on the bunk. Caffrey came unglued and chastised me for putting a helmet on a bunk. He says, its horrible bad luck. I guess he was an irishman. Embarrassed, being chewed out by a colonel in front of my general. Everybody else laughed. [laughter] we got our instructions and moved the division. Coast of theest peninsula. Barneyville, i will never forget. We were behind the 79th Infantry Division. It was planned that when the time came we would be used to make a run down the west coast , through the 70 night 79th division. Tell me more about operations. Did you come in heavy resistance . Mr. Schleider before that, the thing that impressed me, to this day, was on the 25th of july, general billy wyche invited general grove and the 70 night, was in contact with the enemy. Me,ted us to join him, not to watch the bombing of bombing from a hill to the east of the 79th possession. , and thewent to bombing was ferocious. Tremendous bombing. Of course, as you know or may recall, there were a number of casualties. [coughing] it was a controversial bombing. Ive always been interested in a history of it that followed. Linedid dislodge the substantially, which was a road center. Bradleyt army under attacked south. The 27th. Off at and on thesouth, the third army became operational. And the 21st army group became operational. Bradley became commander of the 21st army group, which had the first army and third army. Attacked. It was an interesting experience. One night after we had gotten was a very key point. It was a River Crossing. It was a road center. A great deal of road convergence. A major objective, and we it and went into an Assembly Area southeast of the city. The germans were hampering,topping or bombed and dropped a lot of chandelier flares for bomb target acquisitions. For identification. The fourth Armored Division, which was to our left at the time, left or right, started firing a lot of antiaircraft fire. Grove put on an order that said, do not fire. So, we set there in the moonlight and the chandelier flares. Everyone stayed quiet. Theever got a strike, but fourth armored get the hell bombed out of them, as i understand. Got the held bombed out of them, as i understand. Then we kept going. In a villageush called bree. Averwas the main road from anch into brittany. A group,ns ambushed which i was in, which i was in, and we had some casualties, but got out of it ultimately. Headed south and, heading for brest. That was our mission. Tell me about that mission. A lot of forces . Benjamin no. I was in a light tank. This was hedge row country. The hedge rows were on each side. The hedge row would be about even with that mantle. Then there would be agitation on top of it. Vegetation on top of it. Little defenses. There was infantry behind that with machine guns. They had on the railroad crossing, which was about 50 yards ahead, they had a 88 limeter gun, very cleverly we found out along the level of the tecracks. As our people were coming up or down the hill, they would hit them with artillery. The artillery battery was in front of me and they got badly hit. We were speeding like crazy after we realized this is an ambush, trying to beat it out from the guns. It caught my tank with a bazooka. Ultimately got on fire and we had to evacuate and i lost the sergeant. Had thought had four fellows in a jeep following me. We went around the gun at the railroad. Headquarters, to got our transportation back. You . Joe with benjamin i had taken the tank in front of him. They saw what was going on and did not go forward. It was in the command part of the armored car. I feel like i miss read a signal i misread a signal. That is why i went on ahead. Sergeants was signaling me to go forward. I had been following the command car. Instead when i saw that he pulled over, stopped, wanted me to go on. General probably told him to go on. I misunderstood. He says he was trying to stop me. But i made a terrible mistake. Lived with it. Me more about going on the way to brest. , that waswe made that about 250 miles out from where we turned the corner. Brest was. And we were in a true exploitation mission. There were no really solid lines, but there were a lot of german units that were crossing back and forth to try to make their way to brest, which was fairly designated by the german post that was to be resisted, port that was to be denied to us, which it was for some time. Noon, we had been running pretty happy the day before heavy the day before. 4 00n the Assembly Area at in the morning. I think it was the fourth of august. At a place stopped medrinac, southeast of dinan. Stop byeen told to corps and to head and capture dinan. We had already passed it. It was to the north. While we were stopping, trying to get our units stopped and turned to the northeast which was going backwards, patent drove up in two jeeps. His junior aid was in the front jeep with his 50 caliber machine gun pointing down range. The kernel was in the colonel was in the other jeep. Patent came to general grow. We were standing in a wheat field. What had been a wheat field. Helln said bob, what the are you doing here . You ought to be on your way to brest. He said we were, but we got stopped by the 8th corps, who told us to stop and capture dinan. Ouro happened that mcbride, chief of staff, was standing right there. He had a telegram from the 8th corps that said to stop the advance on brest and seize dinan. Patton said i will take care of middleton. It was the corps command of the eighth corps. That night or day we got rolling. We believe we went 60 miles in the dark and ended up in a place hix, i believe. Breakfast, headed out again. We finally got to the outskirts of brest. Grow, in his usual knowledge of terrain, thought tha