Transcripts For CSPAN3 Oklahoma City Bombing 25th Anniversary 20240713

Commemoration, today mark, the 25th anniversary of the explosion outside the alfred p. Murrah Federal Building that killed 168 people including those children inside a daycare facility. The washington journal and our partners at American History tv on cspan 3 spending this next hour looking back at the events from 25 years ago. Joining us in Oklahoma City at the National Memorial and museum is the executive director Carrie Watkins on this 25th anniversary but first from Late Afternoon of april 19th, 1995, these words by president bill clinton his first comments about the bombing. The bombing in Oklahoma City was an attack on innocent children and defenseless citizens. It was an act of cowardice and it was evil. The United States will not tolerate it. And i will not allow the people of this country to be intimidated by evil cowards. I have met with our team, which we assembled to deal with this bombing. And i have determined to take the following steps to assure the strongest response to this situation. First, i have deployed a Crisis Management team under the leadership of the fbi. Working with the department of justice, the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms, military and local authorities. We are sending the worlds finest investigators to solve these murders. Second, i have declared an emergency in Oklahoma City. And at my direction, James Lee Webb the director of the federal Emergency Management agency is on his way there to make sure we do everything we can to help the people of oklahoma deal with tragedy. Third, we are taking every precaution to reassure and to protect people who work in or live near other federal facilities. Let there be no room for doubt. We will find the people who did this. When we do, justice will be swift, certain and severe. These people are killers and they must be treated like killers. Finally let me say that i ask all americans tonight to pray. To pray for the people who have lost their lives. To pray for the families and the friends of the dead and the wounded. To pray for the people of Oklahoma City. May gods grace be with them. Meanwhile well be about our work. Thank you. From 25 years ago president bill clinton and joining us from Oklahoma City is Carrie Watkins. She is the executive director of the Oklahoma City national and. We thank you for joining us here on cspan and cspan3s American History tv. Thanks for having me. If you could, walk us through the events 25 years ago. What happened on the morning of april 19, 1995 . It was a gorgeous spring morning. People went to work, went about their business, a mayors Prayer Breakfast downtown. So 1,000 or more were gathered at that. People began to assemble in the Federal Building like they would at any federal facility across the country. Just before 9 00 a ryder truck pulled up in front of the murrah Federal Building. A bomb was detonated. And moments later, 168 people were killed, including 19 small children, and as part of that the world of changed forever. And, of course, Timothy Mcveigh was later convicted and sentenced to death for his involvement in this bombing. Lets go back to some of the events that led to his decision to bomb this particular building in Oklahoma City really dating back to 1992 with ruby ridge and then in 1993 the siege in waco, the bomb that detonated at 9 02 in the morning on april 19, 1995, and then, of course, just over an hour later he was pulled over and arrested. But why did these instances in waco and ruby ridge set off Timothy Mcveigh . Well, we dont totally know, but he was frustrated with how the government handled things, and instead of going through systems already in place and trying to fix things he and his friends thought it would be easier to make a statement. I think he tried to destroy what we were unified. Part of that is he was an army veteran, he hadnt gotten his way, the promotions he wanted in the army. There are numerous reasons people may say he did it. It was a senseless act of terrorism. Senseless for so many reasons including the deaths of so many children. One of the iconic photographs of an Oklahoma City firefighter rescuing a 1yearold, because there was a daycare facility inside the murrah building. Can you explain . Yeah, just on the second floor of the murrah Federal Building was a daycare. It was at capacity, actually about to be enlarged. People were hanging in the windows. There was no doubt there were children in the building. He called them collateral damage. I think that gives you the mind frame he was in. These innocence children who had gone to work with their parents and gone into daycare and their school and were enjoying the morning when he decided to change their lives forever and their parents lives forever. One of the many firsthand accounts includes florence rogers. Here is what she remembers. I just turned around in my chair and reared back and was getting ready to discuss the next item i had mentioned when the bomb went off. It had to be longer but it was just like seconds and all the girls in the office with me disappeared. And i thought they ran out and left me alone. I started hollering, where are you guys . Where are you guys . And then the realization set in somewhat and i realized that i dont know where they are. Theyre gone. Eventually i found out when the bomb went up and everything started coming down the seven floors up above us took them down into what was eventually known as the pit. Why was the murrah building the target of Timothy Mcveigh and his accomplices . I think probably because the innocence of the people. He had surveyed several Federal Buildings in the region. I think it was accessible to him. Buildings were may more accessible in 1995 than they are today. It was not incumbent to walk into a building without going through metal detectors. Its a different world were raising our kids in today. I think he saw a soft target which was just people going about their business and working and no one really ever assumes there would be a terrorist dreaming up a ridiculous sense of violence. As we look at the pictures the magnitude of this explosion, the ryder truck outside the murrah building, what was inside that caused such mass destruction and death . Well, there were like 4,000 pounds of fertilizer, racing fuel that he had put in barrels, built this bomb. Much of what he learned in his army days. He was trained to be a fighter. He worked hard at that. He dreamed this up with his army buddies. I think he was really an american terrorist, really the first time we felt as a country attacked by one of our own. We welcome our callers and do have a line set aside for those of how live in oklahoma. 2027488002. Otherwise we are dividing our phone lines regionally. We go to ginger in bradenton, florida. Good morning. Caller good morning, and i thank you for the washington journal programs. I was at my desk at 9 02 a. M. The day this happened 25 years ago, and it left an indelible scar on many of the people i know lost loved ones in that building, and i personally lost friends in the federal credit offices. But, also, one of the things we were able to understand a little better is people from around the world that lived in other places stuff as friends i had from sarajevo who did not act very sympathetic about the situation. When we discussed it about what their problem was and their attitude they said, well, we have bombed out buildings everywhere. And that was a very difficult things to understand this was a first for us and it was a thing that we just arent able to overcome. I will never forget the fences being loaded day after day after day for years with stuffed animals and stories and pictures and sympathetic messages from people all over the world who traveled to see this and one of the things that i am concerned about is how the families are now that had victims and children who have had now lifetime respiratory problems, will be affected by not being out in the general public and pick up a virus that could further damage lungs and such, also our responders who were in the midst of all the dust and everything that was involved in the pollution of the air and from the fire from burning vehicles in the parking lot and so forth. Ginger, thanks for sharing your stories and firsthand accounts from what happened 25 years ago. Keri watkins . I think shes right. People did not understand internationally, had lived through this. I was in the lobby of the museum with the israeli journalist who said if we built this museum every time this happened wed have museums on every corner. I said thats request we built the museum. We dont want this to be something we live with forever. That is an issue that well always have to explain and understand. The other part of the families and survivors and First Responders what incredible people, truly. But because of covid19 is why were not having a live ceremony on the grounds today. We just couldnt in good conscience bring people together when were being asked to stay home. We have a program that will air here in a little bit that will be a replica of a live ceremony and read the 168 names, 168 seconds of silence. A great tribute to president clinton, governor keating. What do we do next. Make sure its kept safe and people are protected. We take that very seriously. The fence has people coming to it. I was out there this morning. People are still bringing items to the fence, placing items on the fence. We clear that fence periodically on have thousands in our archives because of the fence. Teddy bears that can be washed and put in our hope trunks sent to schoolchildren. Theres a lot of good that came from the bad. But tame, people still come here to remember. As you indicated a chance on cspan3 to watch that remembrance of what happened on april the 19th, 1995. Frank is joining us from monroe, north carolina. Good morning. Caller hi, good morning. Thank you for cspan. I enjoy it every morning. I invite mrs. Watkins to give a reply, but i basically have a statement. I have this discussion argument online quite often about the amount of american terrorists as a group that there are includes the kkk, neonazis, white separatists, militia people and i get this blow back all the time, theres hardly any of them, theres almost none of them. And then my response usually is look what one person in a truck can actually do. So it really doesnt matter how many there are. What matters is the level of hate. Frank, thank you. Let me go to that last point, and somebody who has studied Timothy Mcveigh, why did he have that hate . What do you know about him . Well, as i said earlier mcveigh was a young army soldier, decorated army soldier, didnt achieve the rank that he wanted, left frustrated, and i think he felt he had something to prove. I agree with frank, theres way too much hate in this world. We have to do something about the neonazis and the different movements underground and some are aboveground. Its ridiculous we tolerate any kind of hate, racism, the extreme gun violence that we have. We have to put a stop to this and come together as a country and resolve this. There is a place for all good things, we cannot take it to the extreme, to the right or to the left. The one thing weve lasted the last 25 years its important to meet people in the middle. Everyone has an opinion and yours is as important to you as mine is to me. We have to go to the middle of the road and work these issues out. Thats something we feel strongly about in the museum, that we want to keep teaching the next generation is to meet people in the middle of the road and begin to work out the issues and get rid of the hate. One of the lessons of 9 11, that tag line, if you see something, say something. Were there any red flags in the winter or spring of 1995 in which Timothy Mcveigh was buying the fertilizer and these explosive materials that did such damage . Well, im assuming there werent. Im not a part of the government, of the investigative team. Im assuming there werent or we wouldnt be sitting here talking about it. Weve spent a lot of time talking about mcveigh. Id like to talk about the people he impacted and the survivors and First Responders who figured out how to rebuild their lives in a way that is remarkable. Although mcveigh tried to ruin their lives forever, they have rallied and really a model for other people to watch and to witness as they move on with their lives and yet still remember. Their new marriages, new children, regrouping of families. All of that is so important as far as the healing process of our city. The one thing we have to realize that Oklahoma City is a city on a hill. They stand as a city of hope. We stand on a scale showing people it can be done. We can move forward in a way thats very important. And we should teach and educate as we move forward and thats a part of our mission. We want to remember but we always have to keep teaching. This story now is 25 years old. A generation has been born that was not alive when it happened. We have to remember that we have to keep teaching the story and the senselessness of the swri le violence and senselessness of it and flying planes through buildings. One of the remarkable coincidences is the Oklahoma City Highway Patrolman, charlie hanger, who in 2015 recalled how in just over an hour after the bombing he pulled over Timothy Mcveigh for a Traffic Violation only to arrest him. He tells the story. Hanger had been heading twice based on a Highway Patrol dispatcher call for all available troopers to head to Oklahoma City to assist. He had gotten a discontinue. He was about 62 miles north and he turned around in the median on interstate 35. And as he is started to head back north hes passed by this yellow mercury marquis missing its rear license plate. And so he pulls that car over and the driver gets out of the car and hanger has to order him to stay by the door of his car. And so hanger gets out, tells the guy to back up toward him, and as mcveigh is backing toward him he notices he has a bulge under his left jacket. He grabs it. Mcveigh said its a gun and its loaded. And hanger has his gun next to mcveighs head and says so is mine. And he relieved mcveigh of his gun, which was loaded with those rounds that can shoot through an armored vest. And so once he had that again and a kbar knife mcveigh had hidden on his person he took mcveigh into custody and to the noble county jail in perry, oklahoma. And so our investigator asked hanger what happened to him. And he said, i dont know. He may still be in custody. He may not. And so one of our investigators contacted sheriff jerry cooke and talked to him and said, well, mcveigh is in custody but is going to be released within probably an hour. And so we put a federal hold on him. And at that point myself and several other agents got into a helicopter and flew up to perry. The story of how an Oklahoma State trooper was able to nab Timothy Mcveigh just about an hour and a half after the bombing that took place in Oklahoma City, again, the death toll 168 people including 19 children, more than 680 others were injured. 300plus buildings in an 80block Building Sustained damage, the explosion was felt up to 50 miles away. Back to your phone calls. Donald from golden valley, arizona, good morning. I learned during king mond when that happened. This whole county was overrun with fbi and federal investigators and, i mean, they were all over the place. They arrested somewhere else. I remember stopping in Oklahoma City and had to get my car worked on, the muffler. I was having muffler problems. I was talking to the mechanic and he was only a short way away from the bombing and he was telling me how it shook everything. Thats my story. Donald, thanks for the call. The other person youre referring to, of course, is Terry Nichols. Keri watkins, what do you remember about that day . I was on my way to a class walking out the door, my garden doors bow out and come back in. I felt the blast about eight miles north, came back, turned my television on and watched the helicopter come, circle the site. Local cbs affiliate channel 9 had their helicopter up north, spun it back south to catch the glimpse of it. The first thing i ever saw. Just disbelief this was happening in my city. As people who walk through not only the museum but also outside the museum, what is their takeaway . What are people telling you about this 25 years later . I think most people want to try to figure out why it happened and how to prevent it, want to understand and know the people who were lost. Theyre amazed at the faces in the museum and names written on the chairs outside, they can put a face. It didnt happen to faceless americans. These were real moms, dads, brothers, sisters, teachers, preachers, baseball coaches. These were real people doing their job or taking part of government service. These were people that were just going about work. They didnt go to war. They went to their job, went to work. Kingman, arizona, was part of the area where the bomb was dreamed up, mcveigh and nichols sat with their friends in their trailer in arizona. Secretary napolitano helped put that piece of the puzzle together and then the fbi agents in arizona, remarkable police work, by the way, all over from the city, county, state, federal level. Remarkable police work on this story and trooper hanger is a key part of that. People were just doing their jobs that day. The jailer who bagged mcveighs clothes into a bag and sealed them so they could trace the Ammonium Nitrate back to the clothes he wore, normal people doing their jobs extraordinarily well that day. It all proved out in the two federal and state trial. Our next caller from yukon, oklahoma. Dennis, good morning. Caller good morning. Go ahead. Youre on the air. Caller thanks for this program. I just wanted to follow up on something keri was saying. I think one thing the memorial really accomplishes it shows that it was not just a mass murder. It was 168 people. Individuals with families. A part of the memorial, of course, is the 168 chairs with their names on them and the memorial observance we have every year, and there will be a virtual one this year, we have the reading of all 168 names and theres 168 seconds of silence, and so i think thats one of the main things the memorial does is it helps people to see the true impact of violence. Its not just one mass murder, its 168 families who have been devastated. And i just want to follow up on that one point carry ykeri is these were all people doing their jobs serving the public. Its different when you think of it that way. Dennis, thank you for weighing in. He mentioned the chairs, the design and the use of the chairs, what is the symbolism . Really the use of the 168 chairs is the emptiness, the chairs are now empty. Youre standing around the dinner table and your dad or sister was killed, his or her chair is now empty. Back to dennis who is a survivor of the story, working in the Security Office in a powerful part of our building the memorial and the museum. Thanks, dennis, for calling. It is important to hear from these people first person. They are the story. It is their story and its important for us to capture and be the guardian of that story. Theyre the ones who make this work. And that number if youre in oklahoma 2027488002. David is on the phone bellingham, washington. Good morning. Caller good morning. Im indescribably proud of our armed forces and local enforcement officers. My question for the museum is does the museum inform whether there is an office of the armed forces that is named and immediately recognized by Law Enforcement officers nationwide as authorized to advise on potential for domestic by discharged and retired military personnel . David, thank you. Well, i mean, part of mcveigh being a soldier is part of his story. The army and marines, the important part of the building and survives and victims, by the way, so they both had offices inside the building. It was an Intake Office people would sign up to be in armed services. Mcveigh being a veteran is part of the story, part of the facts, the history. We do show a picture of him in his army fatigues, in his battalion. We dont overemphasize the fact he was a veteran. I think as we look back 25 years later we want to make sure our veterans are taken care of, theyre counselled and get the help they need so they dont have ptsd. Theyre asked to did an enormous amount on the front lines and we want them to be taken care of on all accounts. To eric in pennsylvania, good morning. Caller good morning, folks. Something that hasnt really come up yet with any of the callers but was touched on slightly, a caller mentioned friends from sarajevo who talked about the many bombed out buildings there as well as another caller who had mentioned that they dont put up a museum for every bomb in israel because there would be one on every block. Worth noting here this event in particular as well as the vast majority of what qualify as terrorist events on american soil, those are very often rooted in splinter sects of christian extremism that we have quite present here in america, if you look at bombings and arsons and assassinations particularly related to things like abortion clinics, and then Oklahoma City and that mr. Mcveigh had been at the incident in waco, texas, with the Branch Davidian group. I wonder if we shouldnt not do a disservice by not featuring that mcveigh was a u. S. Military veteran and was sympathetic to if not involved in basically religious terrorism in the form of White Christian terrorism. Well leave it there and get a response. Thank you. Im not sure i totally understood his question. I think telling the whole story and making sure people understand there are different sides of the story, what we present in the museum are the facts that were tried in both the federal and state courts. What we have are pieces of evidence, pieces from the trial, stories from the trial. Thats a story we tell here. And while there are many people who think other things and have different conspiracies we recognize that and even have a panel that talks about that. I do think its important to recognize that this case has been tried twice in federal court and once in sate court, those judges offered several times, if there were other things involved in the story to bring them to the court, they would be admissible, and nothing was brought forth. I do think its important the story is told, much easier to move on and not talk about it and not remember it, but we wouldnt be doing People Justice who died or the First Responders. Its important to keep telling the story so people understand the risk and what goes into hatred and people who do not deal with their issues and the violence begets violence. We have to keep making sure were giving our people the tools necessary to get through their anger and work through issues. Part of our Mission Statement says there are ways in place already that you can work through issues within the government, whatever issue youre in. And thats part of our mission is to teach. Were talking with keri watkins of the Oklahoma City National Memorial and museum. The building, alfred p. Murrah, who was he . Why was the building named after him . A great question. A young federal judge, i think the youngest at the time, had a great history on the bench. It was built in the 70s, raised remarkable kids. They would be docents in the museum as well. He was orphaned and put himself through law school and became one of the fest federal court judges and started at such a young age. And of those in the building at the time as we reported 168 people were killed including 19 children, how many were in the building in total and of that how many are still alive today . Well, there were several hundred in the building, nearly 650 or so on our survivor wall that were involved in an area around the building as well and the building in the museum across the street from the site. How many of those are still alive today . Weve lost some due to age and health, but i cant give you an exact number. They are still involved in the process and we still talk to very often. Just looking at the picture of the murrah building, when you first saw it, firsthand account in Oklahoma City 25 years ago, what was your first reaction . I really couldnt believe it. I was pretty familiar with the location of it and my joke was downtown i had been downtown and i had walked past that building a dozen i mean, 100 times, i dont know, often. I knew where it was. I knew i saw the playground in the plaza area. A promenade area leading in on the south side. But seeing that hole in the side of the building is not something you would expect to see even 25 years ago. When you hear the journalists recount something you would see in beirut but not in downtown Oklahoma City. I think thats how we all felt. Patrick from ithaca, new york, good morning. Caller thank you for my call. I wanted to mention a book written two years after Oklahoma City called perpetual war for perpetual peace and i remember its a very, very good book, but people in america, they dont read anymore. At the time there was a wanted poster when they were looking for suspects and they had a middle eastern terrorist guy with sun glasses wrapped around and that was supposed to be the person that was connected, the middle east or whatever with tim mcveigh and also i would like to know what happened to Terry Nichols who was tim Mcveighs Army buddy and they constructed the bomb and Terry Nichols, i dont dont know what happened to him and his wife. Where is Terry Nichols today . Terry nichols is serving a life sentence, both at the federal level and state level. In the toughest prison we have in colorado. Can you walk us through the process how this became a crime scene to a memorial today . What was the thinking of city officials, of state officials and how that all evolved . Well, i think the mayor began to receive ideas immediately, within days he received ideas of what the site should become and what could be put there. Should the Building Stay or go. It became a collaboration between, as i said earlier, city, state and federal governments and the unmatched, clearly unmatched. President clinton, governor and mrs. Keating, led the state through our darkest hour and in collaboration it didnt matter if you were republican or democrat, red, blue, they just worked together. That was the spirit were very proud of, that we need to work to keep replicating today. It was thought about, discussed, a Memorial Task force was appointed, a 350 Member Task Force led by bob johnson. Appointed by the mayor and the governor and began to look at not what the site look like but what do we want the site to become, what do we want the site to feel like. It took from july to crafting the Mission Statement adopted in march of 1996 and then the First Anniversary happened and then began the process of would we put a memorial here and what would how would we go about that. Commenced an International Design competition from 23 Different Countries and narrowed it down to the top five. Two state process had families, survivors, First Responders involved in both stages of judging. Professional designers, architects, urban designers, planners involved in all of that. Had a great facilitator who had done this in other places across the country, helped guide this process and they did a remarkable job all under the us a tauspices of a design company. People did a remarkable job of guiding this process to what we have today. We had a budget and werent willing to go over that. Its abouted 25dz milli e 25 m can believe it. And we also wanted an endowment days like today prove to be invaluab invaluable. All of that was part of the process in the forethinking of the deepest, darkest days of this. Oklahoma city had passed an attack before the bombing. People were worried about the projects but it proved to be very important for the rebuilding of our city. The memorial today stands in the heart of downtown. 3. 3 acre site, one of the top ten museums in the country. Its not an easy process. They were dealing with going to denver for the courts. So i think it was something that we had to balance as a community. The website is memorialmuseum. Com. We have been looking at some of the scenes inside the memorial to commemorate what happened on this day 25 years ago. April 19, 1995. Well look at that and listen to mike in modesto, california. Good morning. Caller good morning. I was going to reference i read a book way back when in three parts called the secret life of bill clinton. And one of them is about his outrageous behavior with ladies in arkansas and another is vince foster, his theory and investigation about how he was murdered and he goes all into this. The other part was about mike, i have to jump in. So what does this have to do with Oklahoma City . Caller the third part was all about Oklahoma City, and it goes follows him through his group. A weird name, an indian name, and also he went to europe with this rightwing group and went into depth about the whole deal of how he came to these crazy ideas and follows the entire deal. Anyway, i took that out of the library about four times. It was such a mind blower and i dont know the truth of the other two parts of clinton and foster. I just wondered if your guest had ever heard of it. Im sure there are a lot of other books that did more or less the same thing. This guy was sort of, hes a muckraker of international, and i couldnt for my life say. But the secret life of bill clinton, a third of it goes really into depth, a memory for me. It was amazing. Okay, mike, well leave it there, are you familiar with the book . I am not. And i dont i wouldnt go there. One thing about bill clinton is he stood with us in 1995 and said as many tomorrows as it takes. In todays oklahoma there was an incredible oped he wrote for the people of Oklahoma City. And says he is still with us. What ive seen of bill clinton, what i know of him, hes been here for oklahoma. He did not win oklahoma i dont think he won one county in oklahoma in his president ial election but he stood with us in our darkest times and has continued to come back time and time again. Hes a big friend to families and survivors and the First Responders, and i would never criticize the work bill clintons done on our behalf. Hes been remarkable to the city when he didnt have to be. In fact, four days after the bombing he traveled to Oklahoma City and had these remarks. Yesterday, hillary and i had the privilege of speaking with some children of other federal employees, children of those who were lost here. And one little girl said something we will never forget. She said, we should all plant a tree in memory of the children. So this morning before we got on the plane to come here at the white house, we planted that tree in honor of the children of oklahoma. It was a dogwood with its wonderful spring flower, and its deep, enduring roots. It embodies the lesson of the life of a good person is like a tree whose leaf does not wither. My fellow americans, a tree takes a long time to grow. And wounds take a long time to heal, but we must begin. Those who are lost now belong to god. Some day we will be with them. But until that happens, their legacy must be our lives. Thank you all and god bless you. That was in Oklahoma City on april the 23rd, 1995, just four days after the horrific bombing in the murrah building that resulted in the deaths of more than 160 individuals including 19 children. Jeff is joining us from elba, alabama, as we remember what happened 25 years ago. Good morning. Caller good morning. How are you this morning . Were good. Go ahead with your question or comment, jeff. Caller i want to thank everyone, miss keri and all that lives around Oklahoma City, because i married the daughter and i just want to thank everyone. As miss keri said it takes time for recovery. Yes, it does. Ive been married to this woman for 20 years, and were still recovering. Jeff, thank you. Good luck to you. Keri watkins, im certain you hear that often. Thanks, jeff. Working on behalf of the survivors and First Responders, we take being the guardians of this place to hard. I have an incredible team, staff thats very passionate about carrying out the mission and in claudines mission we do what we do every single day. This year is different because of covid19 but typically on the anniversary what have we seen over the years . Typically you would have 1,000 or more people outside on a day like today 3 dozen to 5 dozen gathering on the grounds of the memorial and have a ceremony, the president or Vice President or president clinton would all probably be here. The governor, the mayor and the families of, the survivors reading the 168 killed, and pause for 168 seconds. You would understand why those 168 seconds of silence seems so long. Its a long time. One second for each person killed is a long time. You begin to understand the enormity of that loss. Its still felt today even 25 years later. You heard jeff talk about the loss in their family. Those losses dont go away because time marches on. They have a new normal, but it doesnt replace the mom or the dad in their house. Families have had to raise teenagers and have grandbabies without these loved ones. I think their memory is eternal. Well go to neal in woodstock, illinois. Good morning. Caller good morning. I was working for the Telephone Company when that went down. I was working nights and somebody didnt show up, so i was waiting for relief. All of a sudden all the terminals started lighting up like christmas trees. We found out later actually my relief came in at that moment and i was kind of glad because there were a million things that went down. There was an at t office right across the street. They were a hub so they took a big hit, so to speak, and i found out later they were right across the street and blew out all their windows, et cetera. I would like to comment on a point about terrorism and civil disobedience. Theyre not too far separated. I was in chicago during the 68 riots. If you go down madison avenue during the 60s what happened after Martin Luther king was assassinated, like i said, i could smell the smoke and once in a while playing baseball and could you see the black smoke and almost see the flames. If you ever went down madison avenue, which i didnt too many times, once my dads firehouse was right across the street from community green, the housing projects, there was civil unrest going on. I personally, and not to ramble here, was radicalized when i was 10. I was arrested 26 times before i was 17 years old. We were used to create civil unrest, and that was during the war. So a lot of these things fester and theres a lot of people that are naive out there who may think this guy was after killing babies and stuff like that. And thats only my opinion. And thats what ive got. Neal, thank you for the call. Any response, keri watkins . Sure. I will say im a big proponent of the First Amendment and the right to assemble, but i do believe you have to do it civilly and with respect to the law that is are in place. Its a lesson we teach here, a blessing we feel Constitutional Rights are important. Its your duty to do that with respect to the laws that are in place and to the kindness. One of the things we teach here is about service, honor and kindness. We want people to step up and be kind and show things. We had a teacher walk out of here, my kids were young and i remember watching them go to the State Capitol and march on behalf of their aunt, teaching them to be kind about how they did it but to be strong in their belief. And thats a fine line we have to teach. We can have strong beliefs but have to do it in a respectable way that does not bring harm or damage or bring anything that would even remotely look like violence or terrorism. To kim next in yukon, oklahoma. Caller good morning. How are you . Were fine, thank you. Caller good. I wanted to call in. I worked in the Oklahoma Water resources building across the street from the murrah building. I now serve on the memorial board and the Conscience Committee is made up of family members and survivors and First Responders. I wanted to just call in and say, you know, were celebrating today because we do have hope, and this memorial site gives all of us a chance to remember those who were killed and those that survived and those changed forever. The site is a place of peace and i would encourage anyone throughout the United States or around the world to come and see this memorial. Its a truly remarkable place. Kim, thank you for the comment. Carry watkins, your response . Im grateful for kim and her other 25 or so members of the Conscience Committee. I know each of them from the holocaust museum, to keep those closely involved. Kim chairs that committee for us and i think weve relied on them greatly over the last five weeks. Had more zoom calls than they care to remember, they have some tough questions, our marathon, our largest fundraiser, closing our site but the memorial and the outdoor site and then changing how we do today and theyve all been a part of that decision making. None of us liked it. They saw the Bigger Picture and understood the need for Public Health and have helped us make those decisions. And, frankly, allowed us to sleep a little bit at night. We know they will help us explain that story to their peers. Having them involved has been the highlight of my life, understanding walking the journey with them. This has not been easy for anyone and,in fact, theyre willing to serve on our board and committees the last 25 years, theres a bunch of them. I had a chance to write some notes this week, have worked closely with them the last 24 years ive been here, just to thank them for their service. They lost the most or gave up or have scars that are very deep or they have figure out how to move on and push on and walk this journey with us as we built the memorial and sustain it and im grateful to all of them. Keri watkins, you mentioned the memorial and five and a half, six years later was 9 11, another moment in history. Joining us is alice greenwald, the chief executive officer of the september 11 National Memori memorial. Welcome to the program. Caller thank you so much. Hello to both of you. Hello, keri. Hey, alice. Caller such a deep connection between new york city and Oklahoma City. We lived this just a few weeks ago, it seems like a century ago, actually, when keri and members of her staff came to new york and we met at Madison Square garden for a game between the New York Knicks and the Oklahoma City thunder. As a statement in support of all the First Responders. It was First Responder night and i was privileged to be there with keri and to celebrate First Responders from both communities who have stepped up in times of immense challenge. I just want to say that my heart is with you today, keri, and your community. I think everyone in new york at the 9 11 museum are thinking of you. At this moment when were all so grateful for the, if you will, the new First Responders in this moment of crisis with covid, our health care workers, our transportation workers, food service workers, we understand perhaps more than others the courage and the selflessness and the spirit and the kindness you just talked about, keri that is demonstrated in moments of great challenge. So were thinking of that aspect of what happened a quarter century ago. We remember all of the innocent lives that were taken in such a senseless and brutal way but were also thinking about the courage of those who came to respond then and in 2001 and now. Alice, thank you for weighing in. Keri watkins, your response . Thanks, alice. Its great alice would have been with us today and we invited to come and be with us. We had the opportunity to the good fortune to take some of our lessons in new york and shanksville and orlando, florida, the pulse nightclub and las vegas, lesson that is can help them. When we did this journey between 1995 and 2000, it was the Vietnam Memorial that was the last one built and so was a great help to us and were just we feel a responsibility to help and teach that story to others. We have a special bond with new york. That team was one of the first to arrive hours after the bombing and some of those men who rushed here to help, rushed into those buildings in new york city and died. It was very powerful to meet some of their young sons who had been teenagers or kids, teenagers when their dads were killed and now 25 years later in Oklahoma City when we went to new york city to chair that memorial and watch and celebrate the rescue workers in Madison Square garden, it was remarkable. And it is very important to realize the role they play, the restaurant workers, the grocery workers, they played an incredible role here in 1995. It happened to be a restaurant show going on at the time of the bombing. They turned their firstclass trade show into an incredible restaurant and today our heart is with so many of those folks who are just trying to survive and the closure and i saw some of those folks last night as i picked up dinner and thanked them for their work, what theyre doing and sticking it out with us. I hope we can put people back to work and celebrate what weve come through together. Its very similar its different but there are similarities to what happened. David is joining us from oklahoma. Good morning, david. Caller good morning. Yes, i want to talk about Timothy Mcveigh, ive never been able to understand how he had a car they caught him in, that mercury, his getaway car, that he didnt have a tag on his car. He was smart enough to build a bomb but not to have a tag on his car. That doesnt make sense. Thank you, david. Some people think the tag had been blown off or he never went to put the tag on it. There are 100 different ideas where that tag might be or the fact it never got done and he was arrogant enough to think he would get away with it. The logo looking back and thinking forward, clearly we have looked back at what happened 25 years ago, but in terms of looking forward whats your message . Our message is to teach hope and courage and coming together is better than working alone. Its been ironic as weve gone the last five weeks as a staff working remotely yet on zoom calls every day or Community Calls daily. Weve been challenged with pushing ourselves to work together, a lesson we work here is coming together and working together through the hardest of discussions. We have a project called better conversations this year. Its a deck of cards we give out that really just pushes you to sit around the table with your friends or your family and just to have a better conversation, to work through differences, to come together and work to teach the senselessness of violence and to understand that while you and i may disagree on the subject we have the right to have an opinion and we both should respect each others opinion. Thats a very important lesson and to understand that science played a huge part in the story. We have a s. T. E. M. Lab which teaches the forensics and the structure and the weather lessons of how all those things played a part in the rescue and recovery of this story. And it all goes back to remembering those who were killed, those who survived and those who changed forever and we can talk about Timothy Mcveigh all day long. And our philosophy here you cannot teach about mcveigh or his antics without remembering those who were killed. Thats a staff philosophy we take to the core and we want you to understand that because of his actions he destroyed or tried to destroy families and survivors and tried to destroy a city and he did not win. And thats the message. Your book looking back, thinking forward is available inside the memorial and museum . It is. Our website as well. Its a great look that our family and chairman began to put together and i got to be a part of it and we asked other stakeholders to contribute to their memories, their reflections. Its a great book of how we got to where we are today and where we go next. Keri watkins is the executive director of the Oklahoma City National Memorial and museum joining us on this 25th anniversary of the bombing that took place in that city. Thank you very much for your time. Thanks for having me. Every saturday night American History tv takes to you College Classrooms around the country for lectures in history. Why do you all know who lizz lizzie bordin is. The deepest cause where well find the true meaning of the revolution was in this transformation that took place in the minds of the american people. Well talk about both of these sides of the story, the techniques of slave owner power and the tools and techniques of power that were practiced by enslaved people. Watch history professors lead discussions with their students on topics ranging from the American Revolution to september 11th, lectures in history on cspan3 every saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv and lectures in history is available as a podcast. Find it where you listen to podcasts. On the morning of april 19, 1995, a massive truck bomb exploded outside the alfred p. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City killing 168 people. The Oklahoma City National Memorial and museum created this video to commemorate the 25th anniversary with remarks by past and present federal, state, and local officials as well as a reading of the 168 names of those killed. The coronavirus pandemic forced the cancellation of a live commemorative ceremony