welcome,. my name is ian adams. the organization i served this about today's nonprofit, nonpartisan policy think tank and we aim to work on turning a path forward for policymakers towards a bright future where technology advances freedom and freedom enhances technology. we are delighted to have you here today for our event. as a just a couple of housekeeping matters. we're going to go right through the various panels and presentations so if you have to get up please just do so. the will not be a break in the middle but i would urge you to try to avoid the camera shot to the extent possible and doubly urge you to not trip on wires because that's no good. and so with that i i suppose the only other thing is our hashtag is coppa and if you need to log into the wi-fi, the guest password is constituent at the moment. with that we will turn to our first panel which is creators in this space, and this produced some introductory videos which we will play to start off with. so enjoy. thank you for coming. >> at sockeye media, we have a stand-up and shout audience. our team of educators be devoted to grading original content that will delight and inspire children. we make preschool videos that are thoughtful, educational and entertaining kids worldwide via our mother goose club channels. kids love them because they're fun. parents love them because they encourage learning and family bonding. how do we know? on any given day families watch our videos millions of times. altogether, that comes out to billions of views and millions of subscribers. plus our fans show us through videos, pictures and emails and by commenting on our videos. so who are our fans? our audience is young children and their parents, grandparents and caregivers, ane they rely on mother goose club. our broadcast-quality videos are short, 100% safe, and, and full of color and fun. that's why kids tune in from around the world. they know mother goose club means music, dancing and learning. mother goose club is a true interactive experience. kids don't just watch. they sing, dance, clap and giggle along, and parents follow. they like what they see so they come back again and again. as one of youtube's leading family channels we are a trustworthy choice for any device in any situation from earth day parties to road trips to cozy afternoons at home. so join mother goose club where learning is fun, where kids love to play, where families come together. mother goose club, preschool to the world. >> as a canadian i wanted to say thank you for not having below freezing levels of weather because it's pretty cold up here. my name is jackie from the channel nerdecrafter. we focus on celebrating geek culture even though these things behind me might seem like toys they are, in fact, collectibles pick the average age of conventions is, in fact, between the ages of 25-34 and the way we celebrate on my channel is by using crafts using materials like polymer clat. the main goal of of my channel is to entertain while learning new skills. in addition to that my channel also does reviews of craft kits. the reason i do reduce is to give parents and people with purchasing power the ability to make smart decisions, and so we test out whether the kiy is good or if the shortcomings really don't merit being purchase. for a kit at $12.99, we should be getting more colors. mind you the quality of the booklet and presentation does feel nice. my biggest concern is as a female creator any of the hobbies we have seen to be going into the category of traditionally childlike hobbies, whereas many of us who do craft whether it be with dolls and turning them into works of art or squishes and transferring them also into works of art should not be deemed as child type content just because the materials themselves might traditionally be something that children might have enjoyed, and if this does go through the biggest impact in the crafting community will, in fact, be hurting female creators. many of our male counterparts did use power tools. however many of us and female crafting community like to use things like clay, colored pencils, watercolors, and dolls and squishies. i'd like to have this open dialogue with you and see how we can not only protect female creators but also everything celebrating geek culture but channels that you focus on childhood content to keep them open. we are working on hard on a house on being patient with each other can you say canada >> data. >> >> the storm has begun. you can hear the rain coming down. spirit it definitely says pregnant. >> we're starting a law firm. >> we are not trying to display the ideal, not trying to display perfection by any means. we tried to share that jeremy and i have gone through marriage counseling. i struggle with depression and anxiety. today is a big day for our service celebration. >> there are two main reasons we decided to homeschool our kids. >> now on to our final destination. >> good night. >> my name is forrest and i run the kreekcraft channel on youtube and i am a daily live streamer on youtube gaming. for the people unaware of what that means exactly it's a lot like sitting down every cent and watching football live on your tv. instead of on your couch it usually in your computer chair and instead of on tv it's actually on your computer monitor and instead of football it is the good games. as far as the videogames i play and live stream you guys might've heard of a few. i mainly do mine craft, fortnight. they are the top three most popular games in the world now. the great thing about streaming these games is that especially roadblocks viewers can join in to my games with me and they can play with me live on live stream. what you are seeing in the background is footage of a recent live stream of me doing just that, playing with my viewers. that's pretty much my career in a nutshell. it's much more complicated than playing video games. there's lot of, it's entertainment. you have to be entertaining. a lot of numbercrunching, ana.ytics, pr, there's a bunch the goes into it but for the most part that's what i do on youtube. >> awesome. thank you, guys so much for those videos. i'm sure some of her audiences mostly with the work, some of them are just discovering it. on a personal note i want to thank all of you because i have siblings at different ages and i think that really covers all of the content you create and what to thank you for quieter car rides and timeouts when i could do something else that is very important, i think a lot of people watch your cartoon and obviously to the kids who learn from it and develop. we're going to dive in for a bit and going to talk about how coppa changes your business can make great. the second panel covers more of a legal aspect. we're going to start probably start with the money and follow the money. so how did the coppa changes affect your business, coppa changes, revenue stream in any way? who wants to start? >> i'll start. so the changes first though, i'd like to apologize my voice. i'm afraid i'm getting over a very bad cold right now. the changes have come into effect beginning of this year. so we are still seeing what the impact is. having said that, knowing that these changes would come into effect, we substantially altered our business plan and in the fourth quarter, to pretty much frontload as as much production that we're planning for 2020 into the last quarter of the year. what that meant for us was whatever production streams we planned to do this year we identified the minimum we need to do to keep our channels viable. and then tried to get as much of the production done while we had a budget that we knew we could plan around. in our case as you have seen from the summaries, our content is video produced and we work with professional animation houses so that requires quite a bit of overhead and requires us to spend a minimum amount to make the deals that we have a lot less flexible than many other channels. we took advantage of knowing what our budgets would look like for the fourth quarter, made those, executed on those plans but what that's meant for 2020 is a much reduced content pipeline and production pipeline. and for contractors and employees, that much less work. >> so when the changes took place where the ftc on september 4 announced as a first impression application of coppa there would be considering youtube creators individually as operators, i as an attorney i started looking at what that meant, how it would apply to us and our channel. we do a family vlog which is like a reality documentary show of our family with five kids showing just what we're doing in our day. i knew within our business a major component of it was the personalized ads that we received from youtube. we were told by youtube that with these changes personalized ads would be turned off on content that was considered directed to children. at that time our family have been working on producing a new channel those going to be called j house junior. we wanted it to be specifically edited and directed to children. we wanted it to be really popular on youtube kids. we had already made about ten videos. we are to make editors set up full-time to make that and trying to do a higher level production that would make shorter and much more entertaining video specifically for kids. when the announcement came out that coppa was now applying specifically to creators we said look, there's all kinds of risk. we could be facing the penalties. with coppa it's over $42,000 per video is the potential risk we could face up to, and as a channel right now our j house vlogs channel has over 1400 videos, over 200 hours of content and so that was a lot for us to be sifting through which sent to shut down production of j house junior because of all the unknowns, uncertainty and the loss of revenue and youtube came out and said this will have significant business impact on those for making child directed content. like harry said, the implementation of that just happened within this week and so it's too early to say exactly what happened but what we plan to do is to compare analysis of what happened a year ago and do that month by month to see what the differences are but it's too early to say for sure what that looks like. >> i myself, i have a few friends that were also you tubers and they've been directly affected by this myself. a few of them have reached out to me and reported they have lost revenue up from like 60% to 90% of their total ad revenue, which obviously that's not viable. some of them are having to completely shift their content to be more mature, more edgy, more untold adult focused so it doesn't qualify under this coppa bill. and a lot of them are completely having to just quit youtube and the channels altogether. >> i don't think mine is working... oh, there! so, for my channel usually when i do crafting i'd like to think my channel is there a inclusive. but with all the changes that have been happening i find myself intentionally slowly starting to use kind of alienating type language. so instead of saying you can do this with your kids, i could say you can do this with beginners. so i'm starting to shift my language, even though this is supposed to be crafting as a medium with an all use an order to relieve stress and have fun. but when it comes to all these roles i find that i'm starting to shift my language and how i want people to see my channel as that something that's not just child directed. in addition, because the changes have been fully, we haven't seen the full wrath of it yet, a lot of people in the crafting community who are using watercolors and colored pencils have actually been flagged and had their comment section to know. these are channels that make content for people who are above the age of 18 or teenagers and up. but at this point they also did get hit and their comments section were turned off and they started panicking as well. >> sorry guys i mentioned to like things are already happening. it's the comments section and the targeted ads that are being taken away. what else on the changes in how youtube operates in this space has affected you? so comment spaces, n otifications... any other kind of structure or infrastructure opportunities that were taken away? >> yeah. on a video that's designated as made for kids, not only do you use personalized ads, and the comments, think about this as a creator, what sets us apart from tv is were able to interact with the audience. for us with family content we regularly have people ask about the recipes or asking questions or they're giving advice like one of our sons just had seizures and was diagnosed with epilepsy. we have people want to reach out and tell us about their story or experience and creating a community around these different topics. comments getting shut off is such a loss. we spent hundreds of hours responding and delete those comments and then they are just gone. the other thing that's a big deal is on videos there's a feature called icards and drove you're allowed to put five of them on each video. we do a poll on every single video, i can that interactivity were asking a question do you know someone who is epilepsy and your family or extended family or whatever, and you're also able to recommend videos that are related to what we are currently going through. we recently had some serious earthquakes and a sample made a video about that. when we talk but about it i can put in an eye card says here's another video we have worked with earthquake or none with what with through a tornado as a family. those features are being removed along with into carts. a lot of features that allow us to connect and engage and have good experiences with adults are being removed on videos that are child directed. >> i would say think of a comments section because we're going to talk for expensive. i'm also a college professor in addition to doing youtube. so think of the comment section as a the classroom and you tell your students you can't ask questions and you can't have anything in terms of an enrichment other than just watch me lecture in front of the classroom. the classroom, it won't evolve. you won't have a sense of community or sense of engagement. students will not learn. you are removing everything makes a classroom engaging in terms of the socratic method for those that believe in it. that's what the comments section is for most of us here on youtube, is that we're engaging, enriching, and it's a learning experience not just on one side but both sides as well. there are many times where i've used the material and people are like, you're doing it wrong and then give me the right way to do it. so i'm also been enriched by this experience as well. >> i also want to say on the topic of life streams, if live stream gets marked as for kids, they completely shuts off the live chat as well which pretty much completely defeats the purpose of live stream because they can't live interact with you. there's no way to donate. that gets removed too so at that point are basically like talking to a wall. >> for our audience i would say the major loss was playlists for the parents of young children, i would say perhaps the most important tool that they use to curate and manage their child's experience on youtube was by having their own private playlists. within to lose the ability to create playlists with the family, i would say has affected quite a lot of families. i would say on the playlist front we do have our own playlist we put out there and users to use our playlists i would say we used to have a situation where we would take our playlists and then change around the videos after a while especially new videos that would promote our latest video. what we got feedback from a number of families was that in many families they want to watch the videos of particular especially if the children are special needs and the change in the program affected them. we just create new playlists and basically just live our playlists the way that they are and and i know many families had their own playlists. a lot of parents were relying on it and it's a blow to lose that feature. >> with mother goose club it's more clear the main audience is not with the rest of our creators you guys might come your elaborate a can for people who are not thinly with much of your work, like to have a sense of percentage of who watches your videos? what age groups are they in? >> so on that topic it gets very hard, which is one of my primary concerns. one of the games i played is my craft and bought mine craft was probably originally made for teenagers is one of the biggest games and will and it has seniors play, little kids, adults. the thing about the internet is everyone is completely anonymous. i can make an account and say i'm a 55-year-old dude who watches my little pony. it's not true but i could. as a result you really don't know who is watching your videos. in terms of me, only 5% of the audience ever comments or interact. the other 95% i have no idea who it is watch my videos. there. there is no way for me to tell. >> youtube does provide its analytics but it's for ages 13 and up. we do use that. we have done brand deals on her channel with t-mobile, bed bath and beyond, google, amazon, different companies and will send in those analytics and say here's the demographic age and the demographic by gender and location. all that is aggregated together and given to us and we can send that and use it but as relates to coppa we're being told that's reliable information if we determine whether our content is made for kids or not. we are left a lot of ways guessing what is and what is not like the craft was saying. >> i know i predominately make content for a very specific audience, which is geeky, female crafters and to say that i have about 85% of the audience are female above the age of 18. so i do have that information but again these are analytics that we are given only as the age of 13 and up. the majority of my audience is, in fact, according to the analytics between the ages of 18 to about 45. >> just wanted to note that it's one thing we learn from this process and this conversation is that there's very little information about how little information we have about our audience. there is quite a lot of privacy on youtube and on the internet quite frankly. we just don't know. there's information we will get about our audience is very much aggregate information outside the u.s. on the country level. in the u.s. is aggregated to the state level. we have information on login users but again it's only 13 and plus. for example, with our audience we know that most of the audience under the age of five of course the actual demographics will show a sickly primary people in her 30s and 40s, event people over the age of 60, right? again,, probably the parents and the grandparents. for us that is actually in many ways the key audience because they're the ones who are selecting our program, right? the young children who watch our program are not the ones who are in control of the device, not the ones who are necessarily deciding to watch our program. we need the parents, the caregivers to be fancy and to understand what we're trying to do and to want to put us in front of the kids. in many ways when we talk to our fans, they are the ones we are talking to, the ones are reaching out to us and the ones we're engaging with. that's a very different dynamic than each of the other creators on this panel. it goes to show how wide and diverse range of different audience segments are on youtube. >> yeah, my wife and i regularly use mother goose club and hope one thing i want to point out is this is such a small group of you tubers when you consider all the different genres. we have gamy, family blogs, crafting and preschool education. you consider all the content that may be attractive to children that will fall under question question mark areas, think of the music. go to youtube kids right now, how make music videos can you find? a lot. think of sports like i like watching the of highlights with my kids. that's on youtube kids. you think of all the different things related to toys and education that is a for preschooler called the sites that use and creative things like that, comedy, beauty, food, animation, all of these categories are up on youtube and the creators are confused and not sure what to do. and youtubers are creative if we're combining and clever and all this content in a bunch of new and different and diverse ways. all of these questions come up of who is watching, what is the audience and we know it's likely that children 12 the old and again with the protected act if you race at the 15 lecture, 15 and 12-year-olds-year-olds like watching all these different types of content. >> you guys also nail it on the head when you said you mention my little pony. there is a huge amount of adults who watch it. you know, a lot of nostalgia about it. i personally have looked up like i remember from my childhood sailor moon videos. they're also on youtube and oh, my god, remember when i was like six and this was it for me? there such a hard line you have to walk you create any country because it obviously there's a lot of adults who would be interested and sometimes children would be interested too, you mentioned beauty, there is a huge following amongst preteens and teenagers for of beauty youtubers and their content sometimes. if i'm watching it, i want my little i don't love my little sister to hear these words yet. it's very tricky and i think we should go to the next question and ask the question of what do you do, do click the private information, do you collect personal information? because coppa was supposed to protect children's privacy and their personal information. that was all goal and it's obviously you as creators, your goal is to engage children, engage imagination and their developer. but at the same time they are still out there, people who are the bad guys. i don't how they saw you, they would think that what they do. do you guys collect personal information? what do you do with it, if you do? >> i mean, we have to think about what kind of information we get from youtube. we practically just get pie charts. that's it. we are getting just big charts that have divisions and that's the deepest kind of data that we have, which is age, where geographically our audience could be from. that's about it. we don't have any deep dive information or personal information about anyone at all. >> i would say that on that front, this goes what of the things that also a surprising about the settlement which was when we creators were being identified as operators, that was a surprise because we don't control youtube. we don't really have any capacity quite honestly to do very much about the platform at all. they provide it to us. they tell us what we can see and what we can't see. having said that, what do we see. we see information at the country level in the states, at the state level. but i can it's how the information is obtained and what it relates back to. doesn't get shared with us, and quite also i would say that's for, if you think about the logistics it's quite impossible for us to really do much more with information beyond that. i don't think anyone, i'm not aware of anyone, i've never been interested in information that was more granular than that. if you're talked about hundreds of thousands of views and some of us has tens of millions of views a day, it's just not practical to really go to look at anything more than general trends at a very kind of zoomed out level. you are looking at what the audience is, how the audience is behaving may be in terms of when did they click off. the stuff they don't really share with you in detail of when you stop watching your video. you will find out generally when people were click off your video, but other than that we all noted, with quite a lot of communication with our fans because they reached out to us. there's when no way for us to reach out to them. we don't have the ability. we have subscribers. with no ability to match its impact will it way is posting a video. they message us and then we respond to them. certainly when we had comments we could respond in the commons but again we are not who they are in the comets and we don't have access to gmail. the gmail. we can't send them e-mails. i would say nearly every creator response to almost every comment. we get millions of views a day. people respond to everyone, not right away but eventually and that's a big part of the experience and that's why people engage with youtube so much. they know they can reach out to nerdecrafter crafting vice, reach out to us for parenting and preschool education device and they will engage and respond to people. >> if i'm not mistaken, doesn't mother goose have millions of views? >> gas. >> if you had all the information that would be amazing. if that would be some fascinating research but you don't. i guess my question is and how you guys are you let a petition on change.org which of with us almost 1 million signatures now that's asking the federal trade commission to look again into this issue and because all the creators are being heard and the content is being heard and hence the children and their experiences also being heard by these rules. would you say what feedback if any in reaction have you gotten from your subscribers, support, comments and thoughts on this change that is happening? >> i think one of the big things, the primary purpose of coppa was to put parents in control of protecting children personal information online. when you look at the rally of what's happening now in 2020, there was a poll that showed 81% of parents were allowing their young children to watch youtube. the reality is parents are taking devices that they purchase and handed it to the kids to watch youtube. what this regulation does in some ways is bypass parents by saying were going to now be putting my build on the creators composer maybe don't have control over notification, they don't have control over the requirements of complying with coppa, but one of the concerns i know from creators is that where is the responsibility on parents? and also are we ignoring parents preferences? and we have a lot of what the ftc settlement is doing is trying to protect children from their parents choice to allow them to watch youtube which that was never the intent of coppa compass to protect children from the parents, which is what's actually happening. let's make sure we are putting responsibility should be and we should be passing on liability to those who lack control, like the creators. >> another thing i want to say is that my generation especially the younger one, we primarily watch youtube. people come home from school, they don't watch tv. they watch youtube. what's going to happen here is if kid content is no longer monetarily viable, that people are not going to make kid content but the kids look away for you too. they will stand youtube tonight have an entire generation of kids just hearing people swear and watching more mature adult content because that's the only kind of content that can be monetarily viable. >> one of the things i would really like to see is a more defined, i guess less vague definition of what kids abusing or child appealing content is. because when you look at the list, things like pets i have my period who's in my video sometimes but again i don't have parent it's not child directed but at the same time, these definitions of pets or colors or music, these things make entertainment. they don't necessarily make child content only. if you have a video with no music, it's not necessarily going to be in terms of editing at least more appealing. these are things i would like to see in terms of something a little more defined, less vague and also removing the fact that adults are adults. youtube started to treat adult viewers as coming from children when they're watching content that they deem could be child directed to that's pretty condescending when you think about as an adult who is being treated as a child. so that something else i would like to see revised as well. >> i would say that again, the impact is only really been implemented for the audience this month, so i would say the one thing that somewhat surprisingly to some degree that we have been hearing from people even like my friends, does this affect you, and i think that was obviously we made child directed content but everyone assumed that while they have their own experience with youtube and that this wouldn't affect their experience with youtube, it would affect someone at else's experience with youtube especially if you are not based in the u.s. and so for a lot of the conversations we've had it's been, it will affect you, too. there's nothing you can really do about it. as a parent or a user, as an adult user, and that's been a surprise to nearly everyone and something of even this past weekend i was getting messages from people i knew saying, you know, does this affect you? how do i stop this? how do i stop this for myself? how do i get my experience back? i don't control the platform so there's nothing i could really do about that. >> and again one of the things i've mentioned in my video is that primarily in the crafting community, the gaming community -- the gaming community has a lot of also issues but kind of overlap but at the same time in the crafting community specifically we are hurting female entrepreneurs because we are putting female type hobbies as child hobbies, which again is not the way to go about it. if you like to customize dolls. a lot of the materials we do use are not for children either we're using epoxy resin and using different kinds of sharp blades and trammels but not using power tools per se in the same way that our male how to persecute them in the crafting community. i'm really, really worried about the definition of what a child appealing type hobby in terms of what female type hobby is an putting them all in the same basket because this idea is really, really going to hurt female creators and entrepreneurs. a lot of them could be stay-at-home moms who have figured out a way to use their talents to make a living. >> the other thing, we talk about how vague the standards are. there's these three different categories that your your content can be child directed, mixed audience, or general audience content. we have the ten factors the ftc has given in the coppa rule that we're supposed to consider whether not the continent is, in which category and how coppa applies to us what it does not depends on which category it's in. you look at the ten factors. we don't know as creators what they mean. one of the factors is language. there was a document from the ftc back in 2002 that says is the language simple enough that a 12-year-old can understand? what youtube content isn't? are the characters from movies that are talked about? all of these definitions that are giving the subject matter the visual content, the age. the fact that there are children in my video, does that mean it is child directed? there's a lot of general audience content that has children in it. one of the things we're needing is a lot more clarity. for me it's been concerning its even questionable and there's a question of the constitutionality of it. we should know whether a regulation applies to us not too. when there's a speed limit sign you know whether your speedy enough because there's a number. with the empty seats almost like we're giving a speed limit sign the just as don't go too fast. we don't know whether we're going to fast or not and we ask for examples from the ftc and they are saying if you're going five miles per hour, that's slow, okay but if you're going 125 miles miles an hour that's too faster you talked about a conversation you had with a said door the explorer is for kids and grays anatomy is for adults and it's like we know the extreme examples but what about the cosby show? what's concerning is in the complaint they highlighted a family vlog that has over 2006 videos, about a teenage daughter and daughter younger than 13 and to make prints and they said the whole channel is child directed and high highly one of the biggest with a teenage daughter dyed her hair purple and he said look, youtube doesn't this as for kids and you to put on youtube kids and youtube had emails with employees the said this and that. it's like what did the greatest do? the graders said they were family-friendly and that's not okay. they have these figures about either hair purple. we just come begging as you consider changes to coppa it has to be more clear because we don't know where to designate ourselves. there's so much in the middle. what about those going 20, 30, 40, 50, 50 miles an hour? we are all that guessing and we feel like we'll be judged could face these penalties and could face losing our businesses. yet the thing is just the magnitude of the creek like like a said i have 1400 videos so i have to consider those ten factors in the totality of the circumstances with every one of the videos. and then say where should i line it up? i talked to probably ten attorneys about this and they all interpret it different. where do i draw the line and i really don't know and i'm trying really hard and i'm an attorney as well. >> hi think that's faxcinating to the creator standalone attorney because you're doing my job for me is awesome. to wrap it up this room is full of staffers and privacy experts and advocates. we are also on c-span which is peak nerd d.c. if you want to address all of those people, we have an ftc commissioner coming in later and ask them, and plead your case, now is the time. let's just go down the line. >> i know it's a lot, but like what would be your ask, what would you want them to look into and to hear you out? >> that's heavy. >> i'll start. changing the age from 13 to 16 just makes things more confusing. because you are measuring the nature of the content rather than the users. and that creates all kinds of enforceability problems and potential -- there's so much confusion, you can start to feel discriminated against because you're getting called out on but then the guys who are doing trick shots are not getting called out on, you know? what i would look at the nature as a measure to determine in raising the age? we all know the difference between content made for three-year-olds and content made for a 33-year-old. who in here until the difference of consummate for a 12-year-old and for a 13-year-old? its indecipherable. how could you don't give 20 content for a 15 and a 16 year old. that change, yes, it will bring in more general audience content but it just confuses the issue. the other thing is the ftc in their 2013 changes said they wouldn't put more emphasis on one factor above another but they're beginning to do that. they are starting to put emphasis on the factors that youtubers don't have control over. as you put emphasis on the audience itself, we do have control over how youtube is suggesting us on youtube kids and how many of the kids are seeing are based on the recommendation. i can have a video i posted back in 2014 that is general audience content but then in 2019 youtube could suddenly start promoting it on youtube kids and they can get 1 million views on youtube kids. that means after the monitoring that content every checking to see what youtube is doing with it and who they're recommending it to to see if the balance has shifted toward at the ftc may consider that content made for kids. as you put the life liability who lack the control, that's bad policy. as you think about changes for coppa dealt with the libel of people who don't have control. the people who have control of the parents who of the best control but the creators who can't get notification and consent should be the ones are getting the liability here. >> something want to say is the internet is not black and white anymore. so like spongebob, for example, i grew up watching spongebob just because i turned 18 and i became an adult i didn't immediately go like i can't watch spongebob anymore. if i see a spongebob video on youtube i will still watch it. i'm sure is a lot of content on youtube that may be deemed or looked at as for kids, but i'm sure it has a big adult audience. number one would be to keep stuff like that in mind. number two is when making laws like this, please consult with people that do use the internet, and don't make laws for stuff you don't understand. >> also one of the things that i think is really important is giving adults the choice to decide what the kids and what they want their kids to do. so consider consent is truly important and i don't think that should be removed from parents or people who are giving their tablets to their kids basically. that's one of the important things and the other thing is definitely, i mean, a lot of collectors whether it be video games or figurines, these are people with purchasing power. so saying that again spongebob or ninja turtles is just for children is kind of detached from the reality that we live in, especially since a lot of the conventions like comicons are extremely popular and again the majority of them are aged between the ages of 25-34. >> just like to echo the point about making sure parents are empowered. parents should have the right to decide what kind of internet experience they want to have for the families and for themselves. and i would also like to stress the need to really identify and identify the harm that we're trying to solve. there are a lot of problems on the internet that we would all agree should be addressed. what's being described about certainly, for example, whether or not we collect information and how we target kids. we don't, and most of what's been alleged about the creator involved is just not technically true. here there are things that you need to be addressed. we would love to partner with you and share our insights in how the internet works with you to do all of that. let's make sure we're addressing the right things and not compromising what we have, which is to be clear for the first time in history, we have the ability for anyone in the world to have access to an unlimited amount of video content. some of it is not great but most of it is awesome. it has benefited and enriched billions. most of whom would never be able to afford a subscription video service or have access to videos like the videos that we make and the videos that hundreds of thousands of other creators worldwide make. we should appreciate that and celebrate that. we should make sure content gets better, not worse. >> thank you so much for making the case, for listening to creators and for sharing your experience. if anyone in the audience wants to get in touch with you and you just expressed your happy to collaborate you guys can come to us, we will put you in touch with our amazing creatures. please join me in thanking all of them to coming all the way to d.c. and sharing this with us. the next panel will start without any intermission so please stay in your seats. >> in the order that's listed on there >> i'm berin szoka, techfreedom. you may mistake me for harry because we're wearing the same outfit, which was not planned. thanks again for coming. i think this is the fourth coppa a think we've done over the years,, and that was, i think, phyllis, you've done all of them. so thank you, including back in the days when you at the ftc. we just jumped into the middle of things with our content creator panel. so you have heard from them what the frustrations are and the practical concerns that they have. this panel we will talk about why in that situation. you heard a lot of terms tossed throughout, tossed around in the last discussion directed to kids, collection of information, we will unpack that net. we thought it would be better to just start with you to and from people in the real world or i want to introduce our expert panel today. as they said we had a number of these folks on panels in the past. angela campbell is for us are at georgetown law clinic represents a campaign for commercial free childhood and the center for digital democracy. they have been among the groups that have been leading the charge to the ftc to do more about children's privacy and they filed the complaint that ultimately led to the settlement that we have been hearing about on the last panel. angela will explain the concerns that led her and her group to do that. jim dunstan is my colleague at techfreedom, our general counsel and somebody who has the last 35 years done a lot of work on coppa representing content creators on line, also represented the largest creators of children's media for television so thanks to jim for coming. sarah holland is a public policy manager at google. she advises teams on privacy and data covers and privacy and data governance and has been working on children's privacy for over a decade. phyllis marcus, i got to know initially started working on coppa back in 2008 and you are mrs. coppa at the time at the ftc, and you worked on the 2013 rulemaking and were there through 2015 and have been out there representing clients in private practice trying to deal with coppa since then. and amelia, the latest addition to our panel, i didn't get a bio from you so lest i misstate anything, i don't you introduce yourself to the audience? >> i am director of youth and education privacy for the future of privacy forum. >> and you focus on coppa and, >> focus on coppa from youtube and the 130 privacy laws that have been passed since 2013. >> will talk about the intersection of those. to get started, we keep talking about this term coppa, children's online privacy protection act. this is actually the third attempt by congress to regulate the internet to protect children. the first two since the communications decency act of 1986 and then coppola, breaking physic and, the child online protection act, those are both struck down the court as unconstitutional. so coppa was congresses first attempt that survived and it survivedying, t. >> voices from the road, on c-span,. recently the supreme court heard a case that could affect the way public funds are used for students, attending religious schools. it stems from a decision by the montana scream port, that blocks tax credits for organizations. three mothers with children attending nondenominational christian schools, filed suit saying that barr's public funds, but not the private donations. the nation's high court, now has through june to issue a ruling. >> well your arguments this morning against 1811 nine five, against the department of revenue, mister coma. mr. chief justice, i may it please the court, it asked whether the federal constitution allows the wholesale exclusion of schools from scholarship programs, it does not, end yet montana's lame requires it discriminates against religious conduct,