nonfiction become award from the mississippi utah letters.s and he has a book out and you can our bookstore at battlefield center. introduce to dr. timothy smith. [applause] i appreciate the opportunity to here. i have always heard about the time.and this is my first i heard how nice it was and i'm a believer now. a great place here and i appreciate the invitation to here. we will truck about the western talk about ing to vicksburg, champion hill. to vicksburg?been how many to champion hill? not as many. a good number. champion hill is one of those fields and watching the news and listen to the civil war trust they tlefield are doing a lot of work there. the state of mississippi just several hundred acres to the national park a unit of the vicksburg national military park going on this at champion hill. we will talk about that battle the larger r, vicksburg campaign just a little bit. a power point either. i'm a little bit old fashioned. do have a map of champion hill that we will talk about. little overboard on power point presentations and nigtty-gritty he and confuse everybody. when on't do power points i can help it. although i'm beginning to points can beower useful. you see some of them that are they can help you along a little bit. had a good lesson in this recently. i have two daughters, the us tor-old has been after get her a puppy. she wanted a puppy. puppy, puppy. about to kill us on this. no, we don't need another dog. point e a power presentation to convince us why we need a puppy. and now we're the proud new collie.ingo the border so power point presentations do use them on occasion. but not today. vicksburg.about little battles, big results. champion hill, depends on your battle.on of little could be considered pretty big. shilohd to gettysburg or or some of those it does not reach that realm but we are about 25,000 to 30,000 troops on each side, casualties thousands. it is on the high end of a little battle if you want to battle. a little but it has tremendous results, huge results. i won't argue to you like some topic ans get into their so much or writing biography and getting into it too much and where the war was won and lost. i won't say champion hill is the north won the war or south lost the war. depend in that case on what you think of vicksburg. guessing here up in the army of potomac northern virginia we would get a lot of eastern centric ideals and the was one and lost in the east and gettysburg obsession. hail from the west and i'll thoroughly convinced that the lost in was won and he west, gutted, the confederate say was absolutely utted while you are stalemated up here a little bit. that is arguable. feedback on ng some that. we are not here to argue where was won and lost. i won't argue that champion hill the he deciding battle of war. i will leave it that wherever the whole cksburg in scheme of the civil war, high -- how much emphasis you put on vicksburg hether that was the turning point of the civil war or not, that will weigh in on how mportant you think champion hill is. what i will argue is champion point in e decisive the vicksburg campaign. so, if you do think vicksburg is point of the war or -- the confederate say you deracy is ripped open will put champion hill or in a er category than get us -- gettysburg or others. battle in the st actual vicksburg campaign its f itself. results as ourus theme today talked about. in terms narrowing to champion we won't go into major tactical action because with to 30,000 on each side we could get lost in the weeds. is a good book about it if you are interested in the details. we will keep it simple a little it today and talk about champion hill and why it turned out the way it did. start at the top and give background and lead to champion hill. necessarily a history of vicksburg campaign but a quick overview. basically the three levels of war in terms of u.s. today. anybody veterans of the u.s. military, officers and source. thank you for your service. we appreciate that. enlisted man. that is good. list rican-americrmy is made un machine. -- enlisted men. in terms of officer education at shiloh hen i was one of my duties was to see taff rides and military groups and i would have -- this was 20 years ago, 15 years ago -- i kinds of all military. parachute toe with shiloh. right inthink this was the heyday of the iraq war, 2003, 2004. most of these guys coming in were on the way to iraq or just from iraq.k and it was amazing to hear some of their stories. officers are trained in are he different levels of war and civil war you had the strategic level and tactical level. military is ern inserted in the middle an grant onal level which much mberton doesn't know about any level of war but the civil war commanders won't know about that. but i will start at the strategic level. vicksburg the campaign moving down the mississippi river toward the final bastion, along but it tag has to be taken to open the mississippi river. gain is a two ronged campaign or two-effort campaign. for instance, i'm becoming more do more of this as i work on vicksburg, the first in the campaign is to get to vicksburg. major strategic large plan effort in this larger -- we talk about the strategic plan that was the anaconda plan that.ll the second major effort in that is to take vicksburg. first you have to get to investigation conviction, which which is sburg extremely difficult due it the mississippi delta just to the 300-foot to the bluffs on the river to the west challenges and distance to the south. the only good way to get to approach and conviction ridiculous is from -- vicksburg is from the east confederate held territory. that is what grant took as we war, it the operational takes him six or seven months get to vicksburg. then you have to take vicksburg assaults andre two the famous siege that we know about. vicksburg is one major component of the strategic , then f the campaign taking vicksburg. that is why if you look at some rhetoric and writing of gacampaign they divide it into two different operations. and nstance, when grant sherman finally reach the high round east of vicksburg and sherman looks down across the iver valley where he had attacked back in december -- this is mid may, may 17, 18 -- sherman says grant this has been a successful campaign part of the this campaign is over. this has been a successful campaign. ou are entitled to all the glory. i wanted to do it a different way but you are entitled to the for this and you should make a report to washington because even if we don't take vicksburg, this has been a successful effort. so, the first part is just vicksburg, then you have to take vicksburg. hill will -- i'm only thing standing between you and so that is why we need to watch our time. hill will fit that prince george'ser process of process of er getting to vicksburg where you can take the city. as we move to the operational level of war, within the process first effort getting to vicksburg, that is when we get six efforts in the operational campaign level movement. grant first starts southward from tennessee down the mississippi central railroad and through holly springs, oxford alabushi he afternoon river and turned back by the two major confederate cavalry raids, earl van dorn at holly grant's hat tears up forward supply base. probably the more important raid by bedford forest in the ssee where he breaks railroad and shuts down grant's ability to bring new supplies in. you tear up his forward supply base and any possibility supplies and grant is stalled and he turns become. he later says i should have i could live off the land and i will file that in on. 13 and use it later but he will withdraw at that poi point. so, that is the first effort. then grant will send sherman as two pronged movement here in november and december of schichickasaw where i landed was defeated and got back on the boat. to hose first two efforts get to vicksburg didn't work. by that time we are into 1863 everything is wet and sloppy and muddy and river has risen creeks are full of water but grant doesn't have much of a choice of what to do next so he operations.water he tries to dig canal across the base of the de soto peninsula. that tkoefpt work. e tries to go through lake providence. that doesn't work. path through moon lake nd cold water into the tallahatchee river and that hair do not work.tion the stills operation. over the attempts first six months of the fail.burg campaign all the operational level of war. does succeed of course is grant's seventh attempt. times out of options and it is april, late march, april, into may of 1963. can't turn around and go back. is saying let's go back to memphis and go down the railroad like we should have begin and tried in the mississippi central campaign. back but t turned let's try that and move forward. that is the way you should do it by the book. that is the way that general and rail -- hallekk. it by the back and you ave a secure line of operation supplies and so pure theory all are versed in. two y knows about the french theorists. it has been translated into they are studying that at west point and that is ecure your supply lines, maneuver. you don't have to fight a battle. halleck.ure klaus.oubt know about was klauswits when he was not cool. grant is going to go after the men my, fight the battles. we will move forward and fight the enemy and get there. well, we will see evidence of that. he can't go back. thin ice in ty terms of the newspaper editors evenabout how drunk he is, they are calling on lincoln to get rid of grant. we know the statement i cannot spare him, he fights. they are calling for his removal. lincoln says i will try a little while longer but the rope is for grant.tty sure he has to do something. he can't go back. forward toward vicksburg as he can get and none of these different approaches are working to the west, to the direction.other what is grant going to do? moveeventh attempt he will down the west side of the mississippi river, cross south vicksburg and colonel up in the -- come up in the rear on east. there are plenty of problems. lines. ing supply confederates if they come out of vicksburg and fight you without could be hat problematic. distance involved. problems re a lot of with this. certainly not doing it by the book. breaking every rule in the book. and i love what grant said later newspaper editors and talking about the vicksburg campaign and he know it won't be very fondly in otherston by stanton and but once he crosses the river in mississippi you see him counting on his fingers if i tell them what i'm about to do and it goes up to headquarters by bet up to memphis and cairo and telegraph t washington they will get message and it will take how many days and the message will ome back and i have about a wee week. you can do a lot in eight days. so he broke every rule and takes and the d vicksburg seventh attempt will succeed and grant reaches vicksburg. still got to take it but he reaches it. that is where we then get to the level and that is where you get into the battles themselves. fights creating a bridge landing ou will or point. we mentioned normandy earlier and all of that. the ballot of fort gibson may 1 is where he really secures a inland. 12th.ast move to raymond on jackson on the 14th then he will vicksburg rd toward and fight battle of champion on may 16 and follow-up battle the 17th at big black bridge. so i'm now talking about champion hill. what has the confederate commander been doing all of this besides chasing benjamin gri grier. vicksburg d out of and has made some pretty big lunders already and it is like baseball, you have a national aying here i was in washington a month or so ago in seventh and war my braves shirts and i have never been harassed like i was in early september by all the nats fans. very loudly proclaimed how it intough being in first place the division but the nats are getting the last laugh so i'm proclaiming anything any more. where was i going? why are we talking about baseball? i had the thought and it zoom right out of there. this, was a good point to -- n't know why we are pemberton, yes. some pretty big blunders here and that is what it is. the ever want to give opponent an extra strike or out or whatever. pemberton gives grant several stuff.uts by errors and he comes out of vicksburg and crosses the big black river moving east toward jackson.oward he should have used the big shield to as the defend vicksburg. then he moves across the next baker's creek and battlefield.l either of them he could have used to defend on the west and grant to move across cree creeks and rivers. grant will meet pemberton on the east side of rivers and creeks. pemberton is breaking every rule as well. it is not working for pemberton. -- we talk about champion hill and fighting and tactical action. more convinced as i just finished a book on the vicksburg assault on may 19 and 22 and working on the siege but eading those letters and diari diaries, way over hundreds, probably in the thousands of diaries and i'm becoming more convinced that on tactical just the action of champion hill in the 17, 18, grant's african-american is reaching a is reaching a critical stage in terms of supplies. writes two different times that i cut my supply line twice. he gets mixed up a little bit and grant doesn't have a supply line to chase that. he has is supplies landing wagon ing forward by trains. he has wagon trains moving basically by brigade or elements.ize reinforcements come in and he to the e forward division. send a wagon train with them. army e are reaching the and they are living off the land as they can. geese e getting the appear chickens and hogs off farms. critical e one key component to an army that plantation?w on a mini balls. you cannot pick them off the you ha -- vine. ammunition.have what i found in the letters and the army the time fights the d and battles and move westward toward vicksburg from jackson on the 15th and surely getting into the 16th, 17th, 18th you slowing down and when an army that large is in one area everything nsuming and these guys are starting to run out of food quickly. s a result, what happens when i'm the last thing between now and lunch. you will start saying where is our lunch. f these guys are going two or three days without much of anything to eat that starts affecting your body. it could start to affect their fighting potentiallywess and if pemberton could have hailed side of the big blo black river and slowed grant day or two could that be a game changer? we don't know. pemberton will meet grant on the east side of these water courses. critical o the movement into the battle of champion hill on the 16th, 17th into the 18th. hampion hill occurs on the 16th, may 16 moving from jackson vicksburg.ward when i first wrote the book 20 it came out 15 years when ird to imagine, but did the book i thought i will to t getting invitations talk so i have to have a good talk for champion hill. i don't know if power point i didn't did ut power point presentation. but i didn't want to do a bunch get into the multiple brigades and regiments and divisions. so i thought i will organize a -- i will come up with three reasons the battle of turned out -- champion turned out the way we did. minister.a we talked about that last night and he was a minister and joke baptist ministers in mississippi you can always sermon because it three points and a poem. hat is the baptist preacher's sermon. i will come up with three points battle of champion come out but i couldn't up with three reasons. surely it has to do with terrain. convinced the battle of shiloh hinges on terrain. ridge and that is maybe a little bit of proving the negative but you would think confederates would have the high ground and the federals hill and er champion errain is really not the deciding factor at champion hill. so maybe it was numbers. superior numbers. maybe at nashville or some of other battles. but when you break it down, ball's he numbers like bluff were pretty even. to 30,000 on each side. numbers. not actual maybe it was the superiority of he individual soldiers but i don't think anybody with argue the confederate soldier was better than the average union vice srversa. o where do i get the three points. i don't have three points to my sermon. i only have one point. the champion hill belt turned out the way -- battle mainly because of listen so i to examine a little bit in the time we have left today the at the battle of champion hill. we won't get into the we put up y but battlefield map of champion hill nd i will refer to that a little bit. i think it is critical in terms of leadership, leadership is critical what politics or little league baseball or it is. or whatever leadership is critical. napoleon andted to who knows who else said it that e said he would rather have a arm of rabbits commanded by a an army of lions led by a rabbit. lions. see who the we will compare the listen. we start with federals. what is the importance thing is to look both ways, up and down command. of historians talk about leadership generals.ly civil war you have to get along with the uys below you or there will be tension but you have to get along with the people above you. youe are problems there and will be in trouble. grant starting with the federal the central figure at champion hill and vicksburg campaign and he basically got anybody up the chain of command. we know the problems he had had war with hallec kevin, a lot of historians argue jealous. that a lot of historians argue it was jealousy, in terms of victories grant had been winning. the biographer of halleck, he takes a little bit different view and says halleck and grant were so completely opposite and they just completely talked past each other. when they talk to each other -- you ever had someone like that where you talk to them and it just wasn't registering and you are absolutely talking past each other? that was something similar here. halleck wanted things done by the book. grant was not a book kind of guy. just a classic example, when right after shiloh, when grant had got into this great debacle at shiloh and so on and halleck says, i got to get out of it, i've got to take care of this. he arrives on the 11th at its birth landing and -- at pittsburgh immediately lights into grant, your army is not prepared. if they attacked, you're going to be in trouble. get things in order. get doing it by regulation. all of that. i kid you not, there is is a letter that he sends to grant that says, when we get letters here at headquarters from your officers, they are not addressed properly, they are not going up the chain of command properly, they are not even folded properly. [laughter] how are you going to win a war if you are not folding your letters properly? do things by the book. grant, of course, who cares how our letters are folded? that is the back-and-forth. a lot of that has calmed down since halleck has moved to washington. lincoln calls halleck to washington in 1862. doesn't really work out the way lincoln wanted it. lincoln envisions him being a great commander-in-chief. it turns out, the quote he becomes the best first rate clerk i ever had. something like that. but it eases the pressure on grant. i talked about grant counting the days, he has eight days and he can ask forgiveness later rather than asking permission. so grant has got it under control up the chain of command. now, down the chain of command, -- we know hethat has three corps in the army, two are commanded by grant proteges. sherman, his best buddy, is not afraid to tell grant you don't know what you're doing. in fact, when grant starts the seventh operation south of vicksburg, sherman basically says, grant, don't do it. go back to memphis, start down the railroad like we are supposed to do. don't do it. but the key is here, sherman didn't sit back and fight and work against grant during the midst of all of this. he is completely supporting grant in what he was doing. he will tell his officers, i don't like this roundabout movement, i don't like anything about it, but we have got to do what he says. sherman was 100% behind grant. james p mcpherson is the the -- is the 17th corps commander -- he also is a protege of grant. a lot of people, he is young and attractive and all that. grant likes him. grant is going to get in good situations and so forth. meteoric rise. just one day he is a lieutenant colonel of engineers and the next thing he is a general kind of thing, and you see grant's hand in that when he was promoted, in fact. mcpherson says what am i promoted for? i have done anything. but that is mcpherson, his relationship with grant. some historians take a different view of this. and my favorite one of these is ed darst. you all know him. basically doing tours and so on in vicksburg and so on, his take on it, he says if grant turned a corner, mcpherson would break his nose. [laughter] so he is a little bit of a brown noser, a little bit. but they are both firmly in grant's camp. now the third corps commander, the ranking commander, is not a grant fan, a grand protege, and there are some troubles. you can read about this. we don't have time to go into it. but he does call grant some major problems. he thinks he should be in command. he thinks i can do a lot better than grant. i one time he blurts out, i am tired of providing the brains for the army of tennessee. and of course, grant does not really appreciate that. however, in this movement across the river, fort gibson, raymond, jackson, champion hill and all that, he does not really have time to be a nuisance and be a problem. so the year relationship -- their relationship kind of settles down in this blitzkrieg movement, as it has been called in the middle of the vicksburg campaign. so grant pretty much has got a handle up and down the chain of command. not causing many problems here, so there is no major argument or backbiting at this specific that point. will reignite later on. grant will remove him during the siege itself. so up and down the chain of command, grant is doing fine. in terms of the situation itself, grant also has a major handle on the situation. different of these components we are hitting, we are going to compare and come dressed -- contrast this with the confederate commander in just a second. of bad fored kind grant. in one way of looking at it, grant is caught between two forces moving north with an unknown force in jackson. you don't put your force between two larger combined forces. that is breaking another rule, but grant doesn't care. he doesn't have a secure sense -- a major secure line of communication. so things may not be perfect for grant as he is breaking the rules and moving towards vicksburg, trying to get to the point where he can attack vicksburg. but you have to remember, this is not joseph hooker, george mcclellan or someone like that. this is ulysses s. grant. this is the grant of belmont that when things go sideways, he doesn't give up, he takes over and takes care of the situation. when things went sideways, he counterattacks, takes over, wins the victory. when at shiloh, things go sideways, what does he do? counterattacks, takes control, wins the victory. grant is not easily ruffled. he is going to take care of this situation as well. by the time you reach the battle of champion hill here, there are three roads coming in to the east. the map is pointing north. three roads coming in from the east, to roads leading the battlefield -- two roads leaving the battlefield on the west. coming across famous crossroads south of champion hill. grant has a handle on the situation. his men are at all three of those major roads entering the battlefield. he has all three major avenues covered. his men are well rested, they had gone into camp early. they had had short marches the day before. they cover every approach. grant has nearly his entire army ready to go on the morning of may the 16th. some will filter in throughout the day. he has two divisions under sherman back at jackson, tearing up jackson. jackson becomes known as chimneyville, if that tells you anything of what sherman is doing. he is burning anything dealing with the confederate war effort. there is a great story about sherman there in jackson. we've going past this hotel and the hotel owner comes in and flagged him down. sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut, he says are notsherman, you going to burn my hotel, are you? germans probably thinking well, i wasn't, but now that you brought my attention to it, maybe i should. [laughter] i got stopped by a mississippi state trooper one day and handed him my license. he said ok and gave my license back. you can go. i said, you are not going to give me a ticket? [applause] [laughter] -- [laughter] he grabbed the license back and said i can if you want me to. i grabbed my license back in -- and said no thank you, that's fine. sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut but this guy runs out and says you are not going to burn my hotel, are you? he says, i am a loyal unionist. sherman looks at the shingle hanging in front of his hotel and he says i can see that because you painted over the word confederate with united states hotel and it had formally been confederate hotel. the confederate was painted over united states hotel over that. so it had originally been the united states hotel. when mississippi seceded it became the confederate hotel, then when union forces took back over jackson, it became the united states hotel again. sherman of course is not very impressed with that. but sherman is back in jackson, destroying jackson. it is a military center that will affect or -- what is the word i am looking for? it will threaten grant's rear if he is moving westward towards vicksburg. the point is, grant has his entire army up and ready to go on the morning of may the at 16th champion hill. grant has a good handle on the situation. let's compare that to the confederates. john c pemberton, let's do the same analysis up and down the chain of command. all that. up the chain of command, pemberton is having problems. whereas grant is out in the middle of nowhere in mississippi and can't even get in contact with his superiors. pemberton has ready access to both his department commander as well as his ultimate commander, the commander-in-chief, everson -- jefferson davis. the problem is, both are telling him what to do. i have often thought pemberton is in a situation, must have been like having two mothers in law. [laughter] i never been in that situation. i got one, i dearly love her, but one is enough. [laughter] i can't imagine having two mothers-in-law. but pemberton has two superiors telling him what to do. the problem is, they are telling him completely opposite things. johnson is saying get out of vicksburg, it is a trap. you are not going to hold it. you're going to lose vicksburg. don't lose the army losing vicksburg. which is kind of a problem for the confederates, if you think about it. there is a pattern here. what did the three stooges do? floyd, philip, and buckner -- i used to joke about the three stooges but i am convinced buckner is not one of the stooges. he is building one that had any sense. at any rate, those three lost army losing fort donaldson. they are going to lose for donaldson anyway, but they lost the army losing fort donaldson. others, arkansas post, of course vicksburg here is the classic example. don't lose the army losing the place that you are going to lose anyway. some have a little better idea for this. johnson knew that. -- i am not a big beauregard fan, but in the siege in may 1862, when the forces are moving toward them, there is no way you are going to keep corinth. don't lose the army losing corinth. beauregard was smart enough to get the army out. johnson is telling pemberton, get out of vicksburg. it's a trap. you are going to lose the place. don't lose the army losing vicksburg. what does jefferson davis tell pemberton? hold vicksburg. it probably doesn't hurt that ation isn davis' plant just a few miles south on the mississippi river -- i don't know if that is part of it or not. union forces are already around brier field and so on, but jefferson davis says the nail that holds the two halves of the south together is vicksburg. hold vicksburg. so you've got conflicting orders coming here. who do you choose? you've got to pick -- you can't see the future, you don't know who is going to come out ahead. you've got to go one or the other. and when it comes down to it, davis outranks johnson. of course, pemberton remains in vicksburg. looking down the chain of command, while grant has the situation under control with his subordinates, pemberton will not. pemberton has five divisions. he crosses the big black river and bakers creek with three of those divisions, leaving two in vicksburg. none of those division commanders have any confidence in pemberton. probably a good reason why, but they don't have any confidence. william loring, who had gotten into it with stonewall jackson, sent west. if you start east and get sent west, it's like getting sent to the minor leagues. [laughter] if you do really bad there, you might get sent to fight the indians in minnesota. [laughter] but loring is is sent west, causing problems for pemberton. john bowen, he causes problems for john pemberton. carter stevenson, largest division in the army, two of the three generals, actually, will ignore commands at the battle of champion hill from pemberton to move north. if you noticed, the majority of the fighting takes place in the northern part. if you look on raymond road, there is not a major union push. very small numbers will hold there. on the middle road, not a lot of heavy fighting. most of it will occur in the northern portion of the battlefield and throughout the day, pemberton will tell bowen and loring, come up and support. carter stevenson needs help in the northern part. bowen and loring both ignore orders. now, where do they learn that? what has pemberton been doing johnson? with joseph e ignoring orders to get out of vicksburg. they could have learned that from johnson himself. even down to brigade level, immediately before the battle of champion hill, pemberton will brigade commander lloyd tilman, who had surrendered fort henry, commanding the brigade here. it probably would've been better had tilman said ok, i'm relieved, i will go somewhere else. the division commander steps in and says you have got to help the division commander. of course, tilman ends up catching a cannonball in the shoulder and dying on the battle field. sometimes it is better to just keep your mouth shut. he doesn't survive champion hill. the point is that the confederate command -- the high command is in chaos. right here on the critical battle of champion hill. now, to further the analysis in terms of pemberton's army, he does not have a handle on the situation. his army is tired, they have marched well into the night, well past midnight. then they are up early the morning of may 16, whereas grant's army is well rested. they made short marches the day before. pemberton's army is very tired. he had left two full divisions, 2/5 of his army in vicksburg to defend vicksburg against pretty much nobody. the navy. grant has most of his army up and ready to go. pemberton is lacking nearly half of his army. left in vicksburg. on top of all that, pemberton is -- this famous quote, indecision in this -- indecision, indecision, indecision. he calls a council of war. never a good thing for an indecisive general. at this point, leaves pemberton east of bakers creek, where he should have fought grant at the crossing of bakers creek, possibly, but he leads him east, calls a council of war and lays before his generals the correspondence that johnson says, what will you do? he says i want to go back into vicksburg. johnson says come north and meet him. the majority of his generals say let's go attack grants supply line, which doesn't exist at this point. there are three options here. pemberton basically says i did not see fit to put my own judgment and opinions so far into opposition as to prevent movement altogether. my response to that is, you're the commander. he did not see fit to put your judgment and opinions so far as to prevent a movement altogether. my response to that is, you are the commander, pemberton. you did not see fit to put your own judgment and opinions so far as to prevent a movement altogether? problems in major the confederate army. now, that is my opinion. that is my take on it. let me be view a little bit of evidence, just take my word for some participants and what they are saying at the time. for instance, the common soldiers, comes the soldiers here, what do they think? campaign up grants to this point as the daring of napoleon. pretty high there. that is pretty high cotton. that is pretty good praise. will describe the situation here as extremely critical and for any other general would have been desperate, but they have confidence in grant. one low-level confederate is saying at this point. assign no can reasonable ground for my fears, yet i had them, and they weighed heavily. toerstition had some thing do with my fears, i am candid enough to admit, yet even when i would shake off that feeling and leave myself free to reason, i had a feeling that not all was going to turn out well. fearsunately, my proved to be anything but doubts. not a lot of confidence in the confederate army. up the chain of command, george boomer says general grant commits to move his columns, he has this grade -- has displayed great tact and skill along with energy and nerve. the passage of this army up to this point is one of the most masterly movements known in the history of any warfare and it is a success. contrast that with what a confederate officer, william drennan, is saying. there is quite a feud between loring and pemberton. so far as loring is concerned, i heard several expressions of disrespect at greenwood and edwards, and it amounted to that degree of hatred that the captain and myself agreed he would be willing for pendleton to lose a battle provided that he would be displaced. not exactly the same confidence that you're getting from the officers in the army of tennessee. probably the best place to look is grant and pemberton themselves. see what grant is saying. they get together and start to move northward. he issued orders to his soldiers, to his army, marching orders. he says soldiers of the army of tennessee, a few days of constancy will secure this victory the crowning victory of the rebellion. let us endure manfully. other battles are to be fought. let us fight them bravely. history will record our success with honor. grant is ready to go. look what pemberton is writing. the men are much fatigued and i fear will struggle very much. in directing this move, i do not think -- talking to johnson -- i do not think you fully comprehend the position vicksburg will be left in, but i complied once with your order. you don't see it losing with anything but desperation. later on in his report, he asks i think it is due to myself to state emphatically that the advanced movement of the army was made against my judgment in opposition to my previously expressed intentions and to the subversion of my plans. basically, it's not my fault. you see the differences between the union high command and the federal type -- confederate high command here? obviously the there is a difference when leadership is concerned. i am convinced that is why the battle -- not getting into the nitty-gritty or the tactics, but overall, that is why the battle turned out the way it did. the campaign breaks the backbone of confederate resistance. pemberton will try to get out those two avenues of escape across baker's creek to the west. one of those quickly becomes held by union forces and there is only one way out. in fact, one of pemberton's three divisions, loring, is actually cut off. so pemberton fumbles back towards the black river ridge and is eaten there, and -- beaten there, and the confederate army is devastated. grant of course secures the ground that he had so much desired now that he has got to do is actually take vicksburg. the battle of champion hill in large part, leadership is why it turned out the way it did, why the campaign turned out the way i did. one historian has written, comparing the army of northern virginia and the army of tennessee, his basic conclusion was that one had robert ely and -- robert e lee and the other didn't. i think the conclusion here is that one side had ulysses s grant and the other didn't. so big battle, large battle, whatever comparison, big results. huge results. now, one more thing before we take questions. we've got time to take questions. i told you i was not a preacher, but my dad is. i didn't have three points to my sermon, but i do have one, and i do have a poem. i'm going to finish with a po em. if you have ever heard of samuel h.m. byers. ring a bell to anybody? throw our lot about the soldier experience. what it felt like to be in battle. he wrote an account, just finished the assaults book and he wrote about going into battle on may 22. and he was tasked to bring ammunition forward on mules. so they put two big boxes of ammunition on this mule. he got to the top of the hill and just stopped, would go. -- would not go. they beat him with sticks and everything and he wouldn't go. his big ears were flopping, the bullets going around him, hitting the box of ammunition and all that. then i guess one stung him in the rear and and he took off where they wanted him to go. things like that. poem manye a years later and i think it kind of sums a lot of us up, a good, --ching explanation point exclamation point to all of this. he calls it where are they all today? 40 years ago, -- 1000 cheers, our bosoms stirred, my comrades wept, they say. when grant wood spoke a kindly today?here are they all red shown the dawn and their in-line the glorious army stood. there the midnight stars shall over the flood. they kept the bivouac's, by the way. now 30,000 blue coats slept. where are they all today? but different roads where columns lead, listening to midnight treads, they waited for the blow. by day, by night, we marched and fall, many a bloody fray. and many a grave was left forgotten. fore are they all today? gibson, raymond, jackson fell, it was southern iron. champion hill, a taste of hell, they gave us with their fire. two hours i saw my comrades d in, b grimes -- begrime death they lay. through all the smoke the funeral call -- through all the smoke, the funeral pall, where are they all today? two hours of fire and tempest -- the men are dangerous foes to face. the yield for their flank, who never lost the fray. where's logan's sword today? hope he's pounding on their left and crocker is airing by. here is a fierce assault, their line is cleft, what can they do but fly? beneath the soft magnolia tree, their 5000 lay. hands touching hands, knees touching knees, where are they all today? we struggle for the breach, behind the flying foe there from the low and wooden ridge, the flags go. shout, a cheer men may not dream , of such a charge again, but where are they who held the stream and where are the men? that very day with flags unfurled, we circled vicksburg's town and 40 days and 40 nights, we hurled deaths missiles up and down. my heaven was a side at last, the post of blue and gray, the canons roar, the muskets flash, where are they all today? one morning 30,000 men lay down their arms and wept because they ne'er would see again the hills their valor kept. our scanty bread with them we mayed as greatest shoulders -- bravest soldiers may, but they cheered us, but now have dared, where are they all today? the forts are ours, the mighty stream flows to the main. 1000 miles our banners clean, we cut the south in between. where are the victors, where are the foes, where are the blue and gray? the hero souls of years ago, where they all today? the marble bust where the great river lays, the hill that holds their honored dust the 20,000 graves. the years go by the living still theyuecoat or if gray came asked the mounds on yonder hill where are they all today? thank you. [applause] we've got time for questions? we have about five minutes for questions. then it is lunch time. we've got one right back here. wait for the microphone. >> i read your book a couple weeks ago and it is a terrific read. i really recommend it. and i'm not your agent, just in case anybody is asking. [laughter] near the beginning of the book, you talk about how when pemberton was being threatened by grant and being enveloped by him, he was asking for help from other commanders, including kirby smith. declined. -- smith, who declined. i am curious, why did smith say no and why did pemberton not ask davis to order smith to provide that help? dr. smith: pemberton is asking everybody can. remember that pemberton is a lower level than kirby smith. kirby smith would be synonymous with joseph e johnson. if they are going to talk together -- pemberton asked johnson to ask smith and asking davis to send anybody. the problem with kirby smith is you've got a great big river between you and him. and the union gunboats are flying up and down. across thenybody river is going to be problematic and very, very dangerous. the other major problem, of course, is in the concept of confederate departmentalization, kirby smith is in a completely different department. a lot of historians argue, even some of the time argued that we should make it like it was back in johnston's day, the old confederate department number two, which straddled the mississippi river, but here, pemberton's department ends at the mississippi river. just if you johnston's miss johnson's-- joseph e authority and that the mississippi river. kirby smith is in a different department. those orders would have had to come from richmond themselves to get anything done and kirby smith is not very interested. will be some movement on the other side, of course, on june 7 with the attack on militants men, and some other advances on the lake providence area and so on, but nothing that would remotely aid pemberton in vicksburg. and by the time pemberton is bottled up in vicksburg, there is not much he could have done anyway. so it is a done deal. yes sir? >> did the fact that britain was -- did the fact that pemberton was a pennsylvanian have any effect on the confidence of his leadership both up and down the chain of command? dr. smith: absolutely it does. another thing reading these letters and diaries, everybody talks about -- everybody is convinced that pemberton sold vicksburg, that he got some monetary gain and all that and had a deal worked out with grant. there was even one part to the story that somehow they were communicating with a bouquet of flowers. one of them got a bouquet of flowers that supposedly had a message from grant to pemberton and all kinds of stuff. there is no doubt in my mind -- i kid about pemberton and all that, but he was as dedicated to the confederacy and to the defense of expert, and he wanted thanest for his department anyone else, being a pennsylvania man or whatever. i think this is illustrated later in the war. they have no billet for lieutenant general later in the war, and especially for lieutenant general that had surrendered vicksburg, that is a bigger story. they have no position for pemberton, so he resigned his commission as a general and rejoins the confederate army as a lieutenant colonel way down -- no offense to any lieutenant you are way down there, a lieutenant colonel of artillery. what is factid, and reality does not always translate into what people think. and so these confederates are just absolutely convinced that pemberton is a traitor and you see this in tons and tons of letters and diaries, one even and so far as to write home said, this should teach jefferson davis not to put yankee generals and command of confederate armies. doubt it does affect the morale. in defense of pemberton, he has been given this command by his commander-in-chief, to hold onto vicksburg. that and fort hudson are the last to safety pins holding the area together, so to speak, and he is commanded by johnson, who kind of develops an ability to , and it no matter what is said he would retreat all the way to key west if he was given the opportunity. maybe he had lack of confidence in what johnson was telling him, like ok, that is what he would say no matter what. dr. smith: i think so. johnson and pemberton are not the best of friends or anything like that, and every day johnson, yeah, i am on the way, i am coming, and johnson never shows up, obviously. we learn more about it in the atlantic campaign and all of that. pemberton, yeah, i probably kid about him a little too much. he is an absolutely untenable position. a no-win situation. not sure someone like ulysses s. grant could have done much better in the situation, where he is getting orders from both sides. he does make some very terrible blunders throughout the process here. one, the emphasis on benjamin pemberton is absolutely fixated on these 900 calderon -- calgary men moving through mississippi. grant takes his attention and his head is swiveled towards the northeast, towards greer and what he has going on. the while, grant is doing the dirty work behind him and crossing the river before pemberton knows it. then we get into the larger campaign here, and pemberton meeting grant each time east of baker's creek or big black river ridge is just incalculable. why on earth he would do that, except he gets caught in a bad situation. can rectify it. so i feel a little bit for pemberton, but a lot of it was his own making. there is no doubt about that. time is up. thank you very much. [applause] >> you're watching american history tv, all weekend, every weekend on c-span3. of the key world war two battles of 1944 took place in eastern british india when forces under japanese general maraguchi launched an offensive from their stronghold in burma. explores this turning point of the burma campaign, a japanese defeat largely at the head of british and indian forces. this was part of the national world war ii museums annual conference. announcer: ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. as we get into this next session, i'm sure you noticed on e

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