On. I am joined on stage today by six incredible individuals, each of whom have helped shape the history and the future of human space flight. So ill give a little introduction. He gave an introduction about myself, but as he said, my name is deanne. Much like many of our panelists today am an engineer. Unlike most of our panelists today, i have never been to space. Which gives you an idea of the impressiveness next to me. But i did grow up in brevard county, florida, and Cape Canaveral, and i have watched many of you launch to space, and it has been an inspiration in my life and one of the reasons that i chose to pursue engineering. Ive gone on to have a bit of an atypical career. Im an engineering tv host nowadays, and also founder and ceo of future engineers and we actually have a current challenge that was launched with nasa where students can name the next mars rover, so i dont know if youchb you know but the mars curiosity rover was named by a kindergarten through 12 student. We have a contest live, if you have any kids or grandkids that want to be a part of space history, i encourage them to go online and submit their name. So speaking of space history, im going to tell you about our panelists here today, and i want to let you know that their placement here on stage is not a coincidence. We really have a chronology here from apollo on to thinking about going to mars. So right here on my left we have general tom stafford, former nasa astronaut with the gemini and Apollo Programs. Next we have captain bob crippen, shuttle astronaut, also joined in 1969 in the apollo days. Next we have dr. Sandy magnus, another former shuttle astronaut also spent four and a half months on the International Space station. After that we have captain Chris Ferguson, also a former shuttle nasa astronaut, also now a boeing commercial astronaut, which is quite exciting. After that we have Hans Koenigsmann. He is the vp of flight and build reliability at spacex. He joined spacex in 2002 since its inception and was employee number four, debately free. Hans and i share the title of never having been to spate, but i have to caveat that with yet because im hoping with all the work going on on the commercial side that maybe all of us will have the opportunity to go to space one day. And at the end, we have Major General charlie bolden. He is a former shuttle astronaut and also former nasa administrator during the Obama Administration, and really oversaw the transition from the Space Shuttle program to a new era of Space Exploration where low earth orbit is now being turned over to commercial entities, and were looking forward to new technologies going on to mars. So the way the panels going to work today is were really going to separate it into three different segments. The first segment, were going to give all of our speakers time to share just a bit about themselves, and then were going to have about a 30minute q a, and then were going to transition out to the audience. So start thinking about your questions and what you want to ask our panelists. Okay, so were going to start over here on my left with general Thomas Stafford. You ready . Yes. So general Thomas Stafford received his bachelors degree with honors, an electrical and mechanical engineer from the u. S. Naval academy and graduated first in his class at the United States air force Test Pilot School in 1959. He then went on to become an american legend. In 1965 he piloted gemini 6, the first rendezvous in space and in 1966 he commanded gemini 9 demonstrating a rendezvous used in the apollo missions. He headed Software Development for project apollo. As commander of apollo 10 in 1969, he flew the first re rendezvous around the moon and designated the first Lunar Landing site. He also commanded the apollo Soyuz Mission which culminated in the historic first meeting in space between u. S. Astronauts and soviet cosmonauts ending the International Space race. He holds the muck speed world record. He has flown four types of spacecrafts and more than 100 types of aircraft. As commanding general at Edwards Air Force base he presided over the development of multiple aircraft. He conceived of and started the stealth Aircraft Programs and the road map for the f 22 raptor. At this point, i think you understand why it is my honor and pleasure to introduce general Thomas Stafford. Thank you. [ applause ] thank you. Well, it was a real pleasure to talk yesterday about the Apollo Program, how the decision was made in only about three weeks from the time that al shepherd flew until the fact we could go to the moon when shepherd had 15 minutes of flight and only five minutes of weightlessness. Other factors entered into that like the bay of pigs invasion, and the analysis of what the soviets would do on a free return trajectory around the moon to say the soviets had been there first. It was a real dynamic time, and i use the knowledge ive gained from the good friends al shepherd and those people to talk about it. Really enjoyed it yesterday for those of you that were there. It was really a lot of fun. Its great time to be there. So i look at apollo and gemini, we set the tools because we didnt know what we didnt know. And for example, on that first rendezvous and would lose a computer, the radar or the platform, and then later on the first space walk around the world nearly got killed, and i could have been killed, too. We then evolved, we got to train forward better from that. Today is a rule you train under water before you go out and do a space walk. And also now they have virtual reality. You can see with goggles to look at it, so you train that way. That came from gemini 9. Also from gemini 6 when wally and i had our engine shut down at t0 with a liftoff signal, and we knew we had a dead mans curve about 3 4 of a second. We learned that youve got to have in the system, not maybe complete automatic but a manual override and all this has to be a very complex thing you do, and you do it right. We also learned lessons like on apollo 13, im sure youve all seen the movie, a lot of it, and that is a lesson like you learned back in high school chemistry. When you mix acid and water, you always pour acid into water. You do not pour water into acid because you have some bad results. Well, we learned from apollo 13 you dont mix liquid oxygen with compounds that have carbon in it because apollo 13 we had about five and a half pounds of carbon and the teflon and 300 pounds of rocks, youve all seen probably the pictures that blew that double wall of steel, to pieces, and also a square of the Service Module out and say its one of the better days of apollo to get 13 back, so that was a series of things, and so then i was involved in the shuttle return to flight after the columbia accident, and then a briefing with admiral who chaired the accident board. Theres a whole series of things. The admiral said he could have used the word challenger anywhere that he had the word columbia, settlemethe same less theres a lot of rules you do not violate. And we set these tools in place, and theyre all there, and so the main thing is dont screw up. [ laughter ] it was a great time to be there, but also as you mentioned i started all these stealth programs for the air force. If i had not had the experience of being in the soviet union and cripp was with me as one of my support crew members, and then later the first experimental selfairplane while i was commanding general there, i would have never started the f117 a or writes the specks for the b 2 bomber and start the road map there for the f22 raptor fighter, so theres a whole series of things. Just a great time to be there. Ill cut short by a couple seconds. Zb sounds good. There are rules out there. There are tools out there, and you do not violate them. Theres rules and tools, you do not violate them, and do not screw up. All right, so our next panelist today, we have captain bob crippen. Captain bob crippen was the pilot of the very first Space Shuttle flight in april 1981 and went on to command three other Space Shuttle missions. During his 30 years in the u. S. Navy, he was an attack pilot and served as a test Pilot Instructor at Edwards Air Force base. In 1969 he was selected as a nasa astronaut and was on the support crew for the sky lab 2, 3, and 4 missions, and on the apollo soyuz test project. Captain crippen became director of the Space Shuttle program at nasa headquarters and then director of Kennedy Space center. He entered the private sector as a Vice President at Lockheed Martin and then served as president of the propulsion company. Captain crippen earned his bachelors in Aerospace Engineering from the university of texas at austin and was elected to the National Academy of engineering in 2012. Its my pleasure to introduce bob crippen. [ applause ] thank you, deanne, and good morning. I am really pleased that al pulled together this panel of friends of mine that its great to be up here, especially with my former boss and friend tom stafford. As he indicated, i he selected me as one of his support crew for the apollo Soyuz Mission, and took us over to russia to star city and the soviet union, yes, it was, but it was still the russia parliament. [ laughter ] and even out to their launch site, which was i think we were the first foreigners to ever visit that. And then i had the pleasure of tucking tom and the rest of his crew into the command module for their launch on apollo soyuz, so we go back a long ways as he indicated, but its also a pleasure to be up here with sandy magnus and Chris Ferguson who flew the last shuttle flight, and one of my fondest mem memories i was just telling sandy, john young and i my commander and i got to do a photo op with them because we represented the bookends of the Space Shuttle program, if you will. I joined nasa right after apollo 11, 50 years ago, a long time, so im older than dirt, too. [ laughter ] i had come off a program that was highly classified department of Defense Program called the man orbiting laboratory, the mol for short. It was highly classified just a few years ago, it was finally declassified. Our job was to take High Resolution photographs of the soviet union. But when that program was canceled, they took seven of us crew members off of that and transferred us over to the nasa Astronaut Office. We didnt do any training, didnt go through a Selection Process with nasa. We just walked in the door. They put us to work. But there were some similarities between the sky lab program and what was being developed by nasa and the mol, so that was my first assignment was to go follow or bird dog what was going on with the development of sky lab, to make sure the crew interfaces were acceptable, and i worked throughout the program and its fights, which started off kind of traumatic, but it ended up being a great program. When that was concluded, i was assigned to go start doing the same thing following the development of the Space Shuttle, which had just been announced. So a lot of people think of the job of an astronaut as mostly training, but most of my career with nasa was spent in doing Engineering Work following the development of a spacecraft. And i would imagine that the current Astronaut Office is doing the same thing with the vehicles that are being developed today by lockheed, boeing and spacex. So there is a lot of Engineering Work that the astronauts are assigned to do. I i was both surprised and honored when john young, our most experienced astronaut in the office at that time, selected me to be his crew mate for the first Space Shuttle flight, sts1. It was great training with john and flying that mission, certainly one of the highlights of my life. I went on to command three other flights and turns out most of those flights were also engineering test flights to make sure the Space Shuttle would do what we had designed it to do. And when looking back, im im very proud of the Space Shuttle program. Yes, we had two terrible accidents, and i lost some very close friends, but when you look at the sum of the 30 years that it was flying, early on in the program, we did some Important Department of Defense Missions that i think contributed significantly to us winning the cold war. The shuttle made it possible to fly payloads like the Hubble Space Telescope and the other Great Observatories that have revolutionized our knowledge of the universe. And it also made possible the building of the International Space station, which is an engineering marvel that is still up there today doing its job. So in summary, i think the Space Shuttle program is something well look back on, it will be a long time before we ever see a vehicle thats anywhere near as capable as that, and i was sorely disappointed when in 2011 the program was terminated, and i was primarily disappointed because we didnt have another capability to put our crews in space and would be dependent on russia to do that, and we have been for the past eight years. So ill conclude with that because im anxious to hear how the star liner and the dragon capsules are going to correct that problem very soon. So thank you. [ applause ] all right, for our next speaker we have dr. Sandy magnus. Dr. Sandy magnus was selected to the nasa Astronaut Corps in 1996 and has flown on four Shuttle Missions including the final shuttle flight in 2011. She flew to the International Space station in november 2008 where she spent four and a half months as Flight Engineer and science officer. Following her assignment on station she served at nasa headquarters and as the deputy chief of the Astronaut Office. During her time at nasa she worked extensively with the International Community including europe, japan, brazil and in russia. Dr. Magnus is now the Deputy Director for engineering within the office of the secretary of defense, research and engineering. Prior to working at nasa dr. Magnus was a stealth engineer at mcdonnell douglas. She earned her bachelors in physics and masters and her ph. D. From georgia tech. Help me in welcoming dr. Sandy magnus. [ applause ] so i want to take a moment to talk about the space station because i think thats why im on the panel, and thank you, al, for the invitation. Let me start off by saying theres a big difference as many of you in the audience know between intellectual knowledge and experiential knowledge, between book learning and going into a lab and actually touching something, and thats when you really understand things, when you have that experience with the knowledge. And i think thats one of the biggest changes that happens with astronauts when we fly in space, whether its shortterm or longterm, is that we experience that environment, and we experience the planet a different way. And when you fly on space station, its really interesting. You adapt into the environment at a completely different level than when youre just up there sort of as a tourist for a 10 or 11 or 12day flight, and i didnt even realize that was happening until the crew came to pick me up in march when i saw them float across the hatch, and they looked so awkward and so unsure of their motions and just tippy not tippy toeing, but just very gingerly moving their bodies as they moved through the spacecraft trying not to touch things. I basically said hey, let me take you back he was replacing me let me take you back to the Service Module and show you how to use the treadmill, and i just took off because i knew immediately what handrail i was going to bounce off, i was going to bounce off that handrail, and i was going to go straight through the pma and hit that one bag. I knew exactly how i was going to translate through. Newtons laws by the way, derives your world when you live in space. And i just took off and he catches up with me eventually, and hes like wow, you really move fast, and i was amazed. Like really . I didnt realize it. Thats when i realized i had adapted to a whole new level. And its interesting because when you experience that and you realize it was normal for me to get up every morning and float through my day and talk to people around the world in Different Countries about all the amazing science and things that we were doing, it was normal to have the earth out the window to the extent that after maybe a month or so i almost took it for i did, i took it for granted looking out the window that there was an earth floating by below me and the beauty of it and how amazing that really was. And so we have this ability to adapt that i think is really important, but when youre up there and youre experiencing it, it changes your perspective, and let me share one of the greatest perspective changes that i had, and that was the perspective about gravity. And this is everybody on the stage whos been in space has experienced this, but to me it was absolutely incredibly amazing as we were reentering and slowing down and falling back into earths gravity well to experience gravity for the first time as an external force, and it was weird. And it made no sense, and i was appalled at how horrible it was. And to have and to have that shift, right . Everyone in this room understands gravity intellectually because were all scientists and engineers, and you know the equations, and we can describe it, and we can quantify it, but thats not the same thing as understanding it instinctively and internally because youve experienced it, and the fact that when you hold your arm out like this and theres actually i mean, think of all the little diagrams youve done in physics where you get the vertical forces and the horizontal forces and all that crap, so theres a vector acting on your arm that you are using the energy of your muscles to basically fight against, and its just weird to experience that. And it makes you look at the world in a whole different way. And this is really the power of sending humans into space because we have these have these new experiences, it shifts our view of the world and we start thinking about questions that we should be asking that we dont think about asking because we take for granted the environment that were already living in. So, it opens up our minds to new ways of looking at the universe and it makes us think just a little bit differently. Its just that little shift in perspective. Thats whats so powerful about sending people in space and thats whats so powerful about having people in space for a long period of time and doing all those kinds of experiments we do up there. Maybe not all those experiments are cutting edge but i guarantee as we continue to put people up there with different skill sets, as we continue to put different kinds of experiments up there, well learn more from the questions we learn to ask than from necessarily the answers were getting from those experiments because we are just at the beginning of wondering out of the earths gravity well, wondering out of the norms weve established here on the planet to open our minds to new ways of thinking and new questions to ask. And thats really what is the power of sending humans into space and the human Space Program. Im really excited about where we are now because were at the point where he can with get more people into space, to have these perception shifts based on their experience simpas well think up some amazing questions to ask in the next decade. So, ill stop there and i look forward to your questions. [ applause ] and on to our next speaker. Next we have captain Chris Ferguson, is boeings first commercial test pilot astronaut and he will be among the first to go to space aboard boeings cst 100 starliner. Hes led the development of the Spacecraft Mission face and interface working hand in hand with nasa. He was also a leader in the development and testing for the spacecrafts launch and ground systems. Captain ferguson is a retired u. S. Navy captain and former nasa astronaut, having piloted Space Shuttle atlantis, commanded Space Shuttle endeavour and the final mission sts 135. He served as deputy chief of nasa office and spacecraft. He holds a bachelors in Mechanical Engineering from drexler university. A masters in aeronautical. Its my honor to introduce captain ferguson. [ applause ] i always love listening to sandy magnus stories. She makes space seem so incredibly compelling. Even the audience, some of whom have been in space, looked and listened very tentatively, myself included. What id like to do is maybe talk about the future. Crip had mentioned the Shuttle Program ended in 2011 without an immediate replacement to get us back to lowerearth orbit. We had been working diligently over the course of the last eight years. 2014 specifically is when the big contract was let to return americans to lowerearth orbit. Aboard a commercial spacecraft. It warrants a little bit of an explanation of what exactly is a commercial spacecraft. What really is happening here is nasa will begin purchasing services. They will begin purchasing services to take astronauts from the surface of the earth up to the International Space station and return them safely after about six months. The benefit of Something Like this is it allows nasa to focus on explorations beyond lowerearth orbit and transport cargo over to companies and it comes at a great value to the taxpayers. We are actually on the cusp of some delays of returning americans to space, and i think youll see that it came out in the news probably late this year, early next year, after an absence of about eight years. So, very excited to show you this. This next chart will look a a little bit like the nfls red zone, if youre familiar with it, but it was my way of avoiding the twochart limit. Oh, this one first. A real brief description of what our vehicle looks like on the lefthand side you see the spacecraft, which is the vehicle that will take astronauts up and down. It has a very apollolike appearance. It will carry up to five astronauts up to the station, stay there for six months and return them safely and remain on board as a life boat should we ever need it. The Service Module will be jettisoned after the deorbit burn and the crew module will be recovered at one of our five west coast landing sites. It will be a lan landing. Well launch on an atlas 5 rocket. Its very proven technology. About 80 flights to their credit since the early 2000s. Were looking forward to all of the modifications, by the way, have all been made outer to Launch Complex 41, which was previously an uncrewed only launch facility. And the two vehicles, oft and cft launch vehicles are there, sitting and waiting for the payload to show up, which will happen very shortly. I mentioned the nfl sunday ticket or the red zone. You have an opportunity left to right, top to bottom. Were in the process of training the very first crew. I will be the boeing representative. Well have two nasa astronauts on board with us. Well actually provide or get all of our flight support in the form of Mission Operations from a team in houston comprised of a lot of the Mission Controllers that actually service the very tail end of the Space Shuttle program. Well leverage a lot of capability that nasa had as a function of safely operating the Space Shuttle for 30 years. Were going to launch, as i said, aboard an atlas 5 rocket from Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral facility. We will land, again, at one of our five west coast landing spots. The object is to its to adopt to the space station within about 24 hours. The First Missions may be a little longer so we can complete all of our test objectives. And then well remain there docked for up to six up to six months. Once we get a go from the ground that the weather and conditions, the landing facility are clear, we will undock and in a short period of time well last an average of about six hours from undock to recovery. Well land in the western United States and recover at ideally our primary site will be the white sands test facility. Some of you are familiar with that. We have two landing areas there. One in the north, and one in the south. We have another in a town called wilcox, arizona, which is not too far from the Mexican Border and essentially in the middle of nowhere, which is what we really like. Dugway proving ground in utah and Edwards Air Force base in california. Next up is a big moment for us. Its what we call our pat aboard test conducted at the white sands test facility. Actually, this vehicle will roll out to the launch pad there in the very near future and you will see this test, if all goes well with our final preparations, in november, which to us is a very is a very big stepping stone leading up to our uncrewed test flight. Well fly an uncrewed test flight which will dock at the International Space station prior to putting a crew on board in the near future. Again, thats a little summary. I do look forward to your questions. This is what the future of space flight holds. Thank you. [ applause ] now, for our next speaker, Hans Koenigsmann is Vice President of the building and flight Reliability Team at spacex, oversees the launch readiness process during launch and assesses and resolves launch risks. Hes built up the Avionics Software and guidance control navigation at spacex and developed their launch ready process. He was chief avionics for falcon 1 and launch engineer for last three falcon 1 missions and most of the falcon 9 flights. His experience includes the development of suborbital launchers and attitude control systems both at his previous work in germany and at microcosm in california. Dr. Koenigsmann has a ph. D. In Aerospace Engineering and production from the university of bremen and masters from the Technical University of berlin. Its my honor to introduce hans. [ applause ] thank you. Thank you, thank you. Its an honor to be on this panel and i realize my flight time is less than your space time, so obviously i have to work against that here with more slides, i guess. Im going to show you a quick video of the demorun mission, the dragon spacecraft going to the iss and docking there unmanned and completely autonomous and its in preparation to the manned flight later this year so im going to start. This is falcon 9 on what we call the transport director. Pad is clear. Go for flight. Lc 39 where all the shuttles and apollo launch from. Mission control in hawthorne and at the cape. Two different rooms. Mission control in hawthorne. Inside of crew dragon. You see little earth and ripley. And thats the view from the spacecraft as the astronauts would see it. Second stage. First stage returns to launch ship and lands there. And dragon separation. And then the phasing begins and getting closer to the space station. Little earth is a gravity sensor for us. This is the actual thing this is one of my favorite phases. Little earth stayed up there to be brought back by demo 2 mission. The nose will close for the reentry. Will deploy. And main chutes. And this is the recovery boat. We have two of those. So, i threw everything on one slide, too, except this is pictures. And one thing after yesterday, i had to add the me on it. Spacex and nasa got an emmy for the webcast. We do a webcast for every launch. It became pretty popular and this is its exciting. Its just an event. The whole thing is very popular. So, obviously, apparently people thought we can own an emmy for that. The rest of the picture is dragon. You can see on the top there actually, there should be a laser here. These are dragon capsules and different stages from development to beginning integration. Down here this is the final integration. This side is mostly avionics and cabling going to different places. On this side you see a little more propulsion. This is where the power should shield goes. These are propellant tanks. These are thrusters that move it the spacecraft away in case of a problem. Its an escape thruster and integrated. Thats one of the things that is different between the dragon and other spacecraft. The integrated system allows you to use those propellants. If you dont use them for escape, you can still use them for maneuvering and orbit. It extends your range on the spacecraft dramatically compared to a tower that has a rocket that you then throw away. We are also heavy into training. This is an emergency training. I think this is a fire drill down there. I wanted to add a picture that reminds me of other things we do. We had 76 launches of falcon 9 and falcon heavy. Spacex started business in 2002 so we did this relatively quickly. And the main thing is these launches, the majority of those were within the last three or four years. Its Pretty Amazing how fast we ramped up and how many launches we do currently. This one in particular is a landing of two boosters in parallel. We invented the parallel landing operation. Manning the boosters and reusing them is an incredible advantage if you want to fly over and over again, if you want to do this quickly, because it allows you to just put another second stab stage on there. Were starting to reuse the fairings, too, so were extending our reusability and it allows you to improve your spacecraft based on what you actually get back and what you see. You can analyze it and work on reliability with that. With that, i just want to point out we will sorry. We will perform the mission as soon as possible. We have hardware coming to the cape pretty soon. Are you done . Oh, im sorry. I interrupted you right when you finished. [ applause ] amazing. And the end of the line, last but definitely not least we have Major General Charles Bolden jr. , nasa administrator from 2009 to 2017, overseeing the transition from the Space Shuttle system to a new era of exploration. He is now president and ceo of the bolden consulting group. During his 34year career with the marine corps he worked in nasas office. He piloted columbia and discovery. Including the mission in 1990 that deployed the hubble telescope. As nasa administrator, Major General bolden oversaw the shift and created Space Technology directorate. He saw the landing of the mars curiosity and increase of earth observation satellites. He earned his bachelor of science and electrical science from u. S. Naval academy and masters in system management from university of southern california. Join me in welcoming charlie bolden. Thank you very much. Thank you. [ applause ] thanks a lot. Im tail end charlie. Just as i did yesterday, i do want to call out a couple of people who really played a Critical Role in my development but also in the time i spent as nasa administrator, dr. Braun, but a guy who is the mastermind behind almost everything weve done in human space flight in the last 20 years. Thats a guy named bill gerstenmaier. I dont know if bill is still here or not. Did he leave . Okay. [ applause ] one of the things i learned a long, long, long time ago when i came to the Naval Academy and then again when i became a marine and went through basic school, they always said, listen to the gunny. Those that have served in the military will understand what im saying. Listen to the gunny or listen to the chief. Which means you have very smart people who happen not to be officers. Theyre staff ncos. If you listen to them, they will not steer you wrong. Im not trying to say bill was a gunnery sar sergeant or chief, but in my mind, my time as nasa administrator, that was my gunny and my chief. So, i thank you for everything you did. Real quickly, let me talk about some things. Ive had an opportunity to work with everybody on the stage at one time or another. And hans reminded me this morning that we actually worked brim sat, which was one of his satellites he worked when he was still in bremen. It was one of the final experiments we had on my last Space Shuttle mission, sts60, in 1994. We almost didnt get to launch it but it was incredible because we were able to get it off. Some of you crip reminded me of hamilton, the broadway show. How many of you have seen hamilton . If you havent, you ought to see it because its awesome. But theres this musical reprise in it that talks about what impact hamilton had on them and you get to aaron burr and everybody is singing and aaron burr says, im the damn fool that shot him. As crip says, im the damn fool that ended the Shuttle Program in 2011 when i was the nasa administrator. I was also at the cape when chris and his crew landed. I was in tears. Because i had spent my entire nasa career with i had spanned 30 years of shuttle so i knew what a tremendous thing it had done for the nation. But it was time to make the transition. I agree with crip. The crime of it is we didnt have an immediate replacement available so we could go fly again. Hopefully well not make that mistake as we transition to lunar orbit and then onto mars. Another thing, you know, crip mentioned what the shuttle brought us. I will continue to emphasize this. I think shuttle will go down in history. Its legacy will be introduction of adversity and inclusion to nasa. The ability of people to fly who could not fly before. That will be the legacy of shuttle. Things to look for that are happening now with these two guys, with spacex and boeing, we never tested the escape system on the launch pad at kennedy until after we had the challenger accident. We should have done that. They have now done that. You have people that work on the pad every single day. They depend on a way to get off. These are the workers, not the astronauts, but the workers that need a way to get off the pad every day if something really bad happens. We had an opportunity to use it once and we didnt because we didnt have confidence in the escape system. These guys have already taken care of getting rid of that. Those are some things that have happened. Selection and training of astronauts, because as sandy said, the big thing about where we are today is were going to allow people some of you sitting in this room, you may not think so, but you may have an opportunity to go to space if only for 20 minutes. That will change your perspective on this planet. And so if you get an opportunity, find a rich friend, get them to foot the bill for you but you need to do that. The last thing ill say because a lot of you are involved in academics, get your students to understand, they dont have to be astronauts. They dont have to be scientists. They dont have to be engineers. We need people today who think about food and who think about drugs and medication. We cant we dont theres no supply ship coming every 30 days or every, you know, three weeks. Were going to have to have stuff thats sustained for years at a time. Lots of things people can do. I look forward to taking your questions and helping you understand how you help kids get interested in taking a part in this thing, no matter what they do. [ applause ] all right. Now is when it gets fun. Not that that wasnt incredibly fun already but well do q a. I really want to start our discussion today really by celebrating history. Were talking apollo 50 years on. When you think about the Apollo Program, at its time it was on the cutting edge from saturn 5 to command module to the lunar module but from a human perspective it showed us humans have the capacity to pioneer and explore. I would love for each of you just to share one aspect of apollo, you know, whether its a person or a moment or a feat of technology thats inspired you or influenced you in your work in space. Or in life. Im going to start why dont we start here. Because i think you started as a nasa astronaut in 1969, bob, so i think you probably have countless inspirations to share. Well, i was inspired actually, the original mercury 7. People were part of my inspiration. And then tom here, but as i said, i joined the program while apollo was in progress, but it was the people in it that really inspired me to try to emulate them. Sandy, how about you . I was 5 when the apollo landed on apollo 11 landed on the moon so i dont remember much of it, sorry. Thats okay. But i will say that whats really inspiring about the Apollo Program is, again, you go back to perception shifts, right . Now all of a sudden we put people on the moon and it really, really inspired the whole world about, hey, if we can do that, maybe theres something i can do in space, too. For those who live in the d. C. Area on october 21st here in d. C. At the Convention Center is the International Astronautical congress which brings together the whole global space community. What well celebrating is the impact of apollo and 50 years on to see what has happened in the space industry in those last 50 years. Its going to be an incredible display of not only what the United States has accomplished and continuing to aim for, but what the rest of the world has engaged in, too. The theme of the conference is power of the past, promise of the future. And i think, you know, that Pivotal Moment when men stepped on the moon really inspired the whole planet to where we are today and the trajectory of where were going tomorrow. It continues to have an impact and i think that will be true for the next 50 years as well. So for those in d. C. , i invite you to come to the congress and see whats going on globally in space. Its pretty impressive. I was 8, and i do remember watching it on a black and White Television in my parents basement. Obviously stuck with me. I went on and i still my mother saved these little sketches i would make of the lunar module. I was a pretty creative 8yearold. But fast forward, i read a book called digital apollo. I dont know if anybody has read that book. It wasnt a story about astronauts or even a story about people. It was a story about how we did it, on a technical level. How did we get to the moon . We invented Guidance Systems that didnt exist and docking systems that nobody really knew would work, but how did people position themselves to land on the moon . It was an amazing treatise in there about how does an astronaut stand . What does he want to look at . What does he see . When does he turn from going backwards to Going Forward . There were amazing discussions in there about how we really did it. And that actually served as a bit of a motivational force for how do we design our new spacecraft . Do we have to etch the glass to so pilots can see the horizon . What does the docking system need to do . Why does it function the way it does . It helped us a little bit. We played on a lot of the apollo legacy just in designing our capsuled spacecraft. Yeah, i was 6, right between the two of you. I was nearsighted and in the wrong country. So, im incredibly thankful for having a chance, actually, to work on the next generation. I felt a little bit apollo is incredible inspiration for, i want to say, everybody working at spacex, but part of what we do is also to recreate that, to have this boldness or advice and filling it up with dangerous propellants and putting fire and earth and going to the moon. Thats an incredible thought. Thats hard to explain to people that are not engineers or not scientists and have not seen that. To me that was one of the key drivers. I want to do that, too, yeah. And, you know, an opportunity to actually do that and hopeful well see mars moon and mars in the next decade basically again and have a chance to stay longer and stay maybe permanently. That would be great. Im not going to say i was 5 or 6, because i wasnt. I was in my last in the throes of my last few months as a student naval aviator. I was at meridian, mississippi, going through Flight Training in the t2, getting ready to go back to pensacola to go aboard the boat. I had no interest in space whatsoever. I had i admired the original seven. I you know, we were sitting at the in the boq watching buzz aldrin and Neil Armstrong descend to the surface of the moon. I was mesmerized but no interest whatsoever. And it took a person to really get me interested in the Space Program and that was the late great dr. Ron mcnair who personally inspired me and embarrassed me into submitting my application for the Astronaut Program because he reminded me of something my mom and dad told me all the time growing up in south carolina, that you can do anything you want to do if youre willing to work and put your mind to it. Ron asked me when he asked me if i was going to apply for the program. He look add at me strangely. He said, why . Not because they would never pick me. He said, thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. How do you know if you dont ask . I was challenged and i did. But i was inspired by apollo after becoming part of the program. I was inspired with my almost eight years at nasa administrator as people who have no clue about rocket ships and sometimes dont know which end is up play an importantly Critical Role in the future and whether or not we exist. The reason we werent ready to go into human space flight from the u. S. Right after we phased out of shuttle was because we could not convince the congress that a commercial Space Flight Program was the way to go for the u. S. The reason that we went to the moon was because we had a president surrounded by people like george lowe. Tom talked about some of them yesterday. But people who refused to say we cant do this. We dont know how, is what they said, but well find a way. And so apollo inspired me to work that way with people who make decisions to help them understand why. Social media has changed the game pro and con. Following the example of spacex and the way they utilize social media, nasa has really gotten into the game of informing people. When i talked yesterday about its not either or, its an and. Government and industry, government and entrepreneurs have to work together. That was my inspiration from apollo. Man, a lot of people dont have a clue what youre doing and could care less but theyre the ones that are going to help you do it. All right. Tom, you have inspiration even before apollo. Do you want to share well, of the four missions i flew, again, the most impressions and changes as far as your view is when you flew to the moon. There was only 24 of us that flew to the moon. 12 of us left around now. Thats unique because when youre out there, its about the size of an orange. And thats why i wanted to pioneer to share that with people and it worked out real well. Speaking about that and the experiences you go through, like gemini 9, it was a heck of a time getting inserted back in that spacecraft. We could have lost myself. From that we developed training under water. But theres a great movie out. I recommend it to you. And i saw it. It was made in russia about alexei leonov, my good friend, the one i shook hands with on apollo soyuz. They had the premiere in the kremlin, putin was there, about 6,000 people were there. When i was over there with my group, on the iss Advisory Task force, they had a special showing for us in the museum of cosmos and they showed us that movie. I think apollo 13 is the most realistic of the space movies you see in the United States, but this movie called spacewalker, you can get it from amazon with english subtitles. Its probably one of the best movies and most realistic ive ever seen. It is unbelievable. And i recommend it to all. Its about a twohour movie. But getting back in was something youll never forget. I told crip at dinner last night, i didnt have time to go into it yesterday, but on that second stage burn on the s4b, the third stage when i was a translunar injection, picked up 11,000 feet per second, we got up around 32,000 feet and it started to vibrate it was like a pogo but it wasnt. The frequency was the same but the amplitude was building. I told john young, i said, john, this feels like flutter but theres no aerodynamic forcing function on this thing, and it kept getting more and more and more. It got so bad, i remember by 34, 35,000 feet, i could not read the instrument panel. And i thought the thing was going to blow apart. Here was the abort handle. Turn it 45 degrees to the left and that would have shut the engine down but i knew we would be gone a day and a half at least to abort. I guess thats why you have commanders as test pilots. If it blows, it blows. We picked up 11,000 feet per second. 36,600 feet per second. And we were sixtenths of a foot per second on our computer. Thats the computer on the saturn v. I said, what the hell was that . We just i couldnt believe it. And so john turned around and said, hey, guys, look at this. Theres a stabilizing bar we had in apollo to stabilize the couches to the spacecraft. The last thing before they closed the hatches, disconnect that stabilizing bar and lock it down. Well, guess what. He didnt disconnect it. Furthermore, i told back to mission control, i said, check the gs we got on this vibration. I said, its really something. And they called the next day and said, well, looks like we had a problem with the tank pressurization and vent valve sequence. And about a week later i got a call from dr. Rod braun himself with his german accent and he said, tom, we owes you an apology. I said, whats that, doctor . He said, well, you remember a vibration you had at the end of the s4b burn . You remember that . I said, remember . Hell, ill never forget it. He said, well, we had the tank pressurization valve too close to the vent valve and they got into a we were on a cantilever and so we were shaking to pieces. They fixed that real easy but we made double sure when they closed the hatch, the stabilizing bar, two people was down, and number two, they set a wide variance between tank pressurization and vent valve and no other apollo had the problem. Amazing. I am also so impressed your memory is like a trap. Hes like quoting speeds. Its so impressive. So, onto the next question. I really want to look towards the future of space travel or human space flight. On the horizon we have so much excitement. We have the commercial crew program, weve got space tourism, youve got artemis, were going to the moon. Were using that as a stepping stone to go to mars. Some people want to retire there one day. Theres so much excitement. So i would love for each of you to share what youre looking forward to most about the future of Space Exploration and what do you think are the things from apollo that still resonate today . Well start with charlie and come back this way. The Critical Technology right now is what we call, you know we just got to figure out how to land the kind of masses were talking about landing on mars. Thats something weve got to figure out again. If i go back to what spacex is doing and has done, we had talked to them about, you know, flying a dragon to mars and landing because it would give us data about a propulsive landing retro grade propulsive landing on mars. Again, working with the private sector and experiment that is theyre doing that keeps nasa from having to do that allows them to go on and develop the exploration part of the program. The other thing is the human body. We know quite a bit more than weve ever known before thanks to a lot of the experimentation thats going on on station today. But longterm survival on mars, i think well be okay, but its just its sort of like a commercial you see on television that says, well, i think well be okay. Okay is probably not good enough when were talking about that, so we probably need to figure out exactly how were going to keep the crew safe in the radiation environment of mars. Im a big fan of going underground and using the martian soil as a safeguard so humans live underground and thats enough for me. Hans . Spacex was built with the background of making the human species multiplanetary, which means earth and mars, for now. And obviously the big problem going to mars is money. There are some technical problems, too. Money plays into that, too. Space flight is super expensive. So, one obvious knob to turn this is reusability. Its not just reusability as rapid reusability. Currently design for ten times. Were going to were going to start for the fourth time. The next launch, actually. Dragon has been used three times. Crewel dragon will be used up to five times. All of these things help because you dont have to build something again. Have you to you know, inspect it, refurbish is where you need to refurbish it but ideally you want to keep that really, really low. Like an airplane, basically, so you inspect it, its still fine and you have scheduled regular maintenance on boosters and, you know, others. We just recently recovered a fairing coming from the second stage, basically, in a big net and saved it from falling in the water, which is super useful, and well refurbish that. Obviously were working part by part. Starship were working on that. Its going to allow us to use the second stage again, too, and it really becomes the cost of fuel and the cost of some maintenance and the operations, basically. Thats where we need to go. Thats the technical side. We need on the other side also help in terms of payloads, we need users, we need people that actually use that service and thats basically where everybody can pitch in here and help us because obviously if you have this capability, somebody needs to use it and thats super important, too. I think thats primarily it. Reusability, and not to mention of course reliability and safety. When you reuse stuff you can actually make it safer because you see the booster coming back. You see possibly leaks, you get more data, you use video cameras all over the place. We just pull them off and look at them. So, that helps you, too. Reliability, safety, reusability. Chris . I think the biggest asset we have right now that will enable us to get to mars in the not too distant future is about 240 kilometers that way. Its the International Space station. Its the place were learning to live and work for long durations. How do we purify water . How do we get to recycling 95 to 98 of our water . How do we remove co2 from the air . How do we add oxygen . How do we make this work in a system that must function for the duration of time it takes to get to mars and back. And were perfecting those systems on the International Space station today. I think we have to look beyond 2028 where the current end of the isss life is and, to hans point, who are the users . Who will build the replacement for the place to test and develop longterm assurance these systems will, in fact, work on the day that we eventually do leave lowearth orbit for the martian surface. You loogs add this of of of. I look at this two different ways. The biggest barrier is the cost of getting people and things up there, which our Industry Partners are working on to try to you know, reusability is key, obviously to lower launch costs, but also frequency of launch. If you go to the cases of the users, if youre a user, you want to be sure that you can get access frequently based on whatever the pace of your Business Model requires. So those are two dynamics that are still playing out. Well see where we get to with the current plans. And then with respect to going further beyond lowearth orbit, to the radiation question, we have a lot of questionings there. We need to understand the answers to those questions and manage that problem because radiation is not going to go away. That is sort of, i think, what we have to do there. To chris point, recycling is important but i would say its beyond just creating a 100 closed life support system. Its also everything else. Think about the logistics training that we might have to establish to support people on mars and its ridiculous to imagine how you manage that. So we have to figure out how to recycle everything that we take into space, how we can use the materials on the planetary bodies upon which we place humans and theres a lot of work that has to be done in that area. And, by the way, that kind of work will eventually come back and benefit earth. Because we have finite resources here on our planet and we have to figure out how to recycle a little bit more here, too theres some dualuse technologies that we can work on that will benefit the human push beyond lower earth orbit and our planet. Well, i do firmly believe that humans will visit mars some day. But before we do that, not only learning to live off the planet on the iss, but we need to learn to live on another planetary body. And were lucky enough to have the moon thats just a few days away as opposed to months going to mars. And it is a great test ground for learning how to live off this earth that were all lucky enough to do. And there are many questions to be answered, radiation being a significant one, and we ought to take advantage of that, the trips that we did make to the moon were all little camping trips, somebody else said they were short duration kinds of things. And to live there is a total different problem. And we need to solve that. Well, bob really brought up some points that we outlined in this years study i shared for president bush sr. And Vice President quayle how to go back to the moon and onto mars. He hit it right there. But one thing, you are going to need a big booster. Theres no doubt about it. People have things to sell. They always want to sell you the small boosters and put them together. The math just doesnt work. Well, weve been through it many times. Radiation, absolutely, we have to have a way to protect for radiation. Thats one of the big risks. And assuming that your Systems Engineering is good and your systems have enough reliability to get you out there, perhaps a Nuclear Thermal Rocket for mars, you dont need it for the moon. As far as upper stage propulsion. And oh, again, the two things you have to recycle is water and oxygen. And, you know, for example, on apollo 10, i lifted off about 6. 4 Million Pounds of mass. I had 300,000 pounds to leo and 100,000 pounds how does he do that . How did you do that . All i had was 4. 8 there earth orbit and then on tli, it was 1. 6 . Now, the human being uses about 2. 2 pounds, depends on your weight, 2. 2 pounds of oxygen per day. So, that means youre going to have to have 50 to 75 pounds of mass for every day you breathe unless you recycle. Youre going to have to have 6. 5 pounds of water a day, and thats going to take that much more. So, you got to recycle that. So, theres a lot to be done. And one other thing, this kind of sticks in my craw, we hear the word commercial. Well, i was on the backup of the first gemini flight, i was backup commander on the first apollo flight so i was there from the start to finish and everything nasa bought and purchased was from commercial entities. It was all commercial. Except we had insight and requirements, but the contract was a good team. But the word commercial means nasa steps out of the way. I kind of disagree because nasa did everything on gemini, apollo and even the shuttle was all done by commercial people. None by nasa, zero. So i wanted to bring that up. [ applause ] so, prior to this i did a bunch of research and something that wasnt that i didnt include in your bio was at some point the Guidance System that you did hand calculations in space because the Guidance System failed, correct . Now you understand how he can do that. Hes a human calculator. I love it. We have a short period of time, but im going to do one more question and we might only have one person answer this before we go to the audience. You know, the space industry is highly competitive, as we know. It has a history of being competitive. But its also highly collaborative. The scope of what were trying to achieve requires us to really collaborate. Now, you know, in the commercial era, still highly competitive and highly collaborative. How does that balance i guess give me some insight on that delicate balance and why we need both. And id love to start with sandy because i know you did a lot of work with International Agencies during your time at nasa. Yeah, it is a delicate balance. And i think its its a good dynamic because theres a push pull amongst the different entities. The competition is good because it makes everybody keep innovating and the collaboration is good because we learn from each other, because it still is quite risky, quite dynamic. Its a harsh environment to try to operate in. Keeping that balance where the learning happens across the community, but theres enough competition and poking at each other to spur people to do better is really awesome. And i think it all works at the end of the day because in my experience, working with people around the world in the Space Program, what i have found is that everybody is really, really passionate about the mission of flying in space, whether thats machines or people or both. And because everybody buys into that and feels that and is passionate about that, we can conquer all kinds of issues that might otherwise create fractionation and dysfunctionality. We still have some but in general the whole Community Pulls together because they believe in that passionate thing. Its one thing i talk about with respect to the International Space station program, it shows you, you know, going back to collaboration and cooperation, it shows you that program, what we can do as human beings if we really want to accomplish something difficult. Its the most complex, highly Technological Program ever conceived and executed by people. And it involved numerous Different Countries with different agendas, different languages, the english system and the metric system and thats a mess, too, but political situations. Multidecade project worked because everyone engaged in it it at the end of the day really believed in it and had their passion in it. Theres no reason why we cant solve any problem that is pacing us as a deployable population, if we take the same attitude but thats why the competition and the collaboration worked so powerfully in the Space Program because of this passion and total commitment to achieving the end goal. We dont have a ton of time but who wants to take this one . Charlie . I say ditto. Ditto . How about you guys take that one . I dont know. I feel like when you actually, there is a level of competition and thats good and a level of cooperation on the launch pad that everybody works for the mission and it doesnt really matter which company they work for, in the same cases. And the same applies to when things go wrong, that everybody feels terrible when things go wrong. And i found this at the end of the day, people that work in space are passionate about space. And, you know, they want their company to succeed, of course, but theres an overarcing level that people want things to go well and to be safe and reliable, so that in many cases is more important. I found this pretty refreshing in many cases. Ill just talk dollars quickly at a high level. If you look at what it costs to develop the shuttle, it was between 30 billion and 40 billion, in 2010 dollars, give or take, depends what source you look at and the Shuttle Program was about 3 billion per year, and that got you about four to five flights per year depending upon the year, but if you just look at sort of the way the commercial crew program is evolving, for the cost of operating the Space Shuttle program for two years, a little bit over that, youre getting two different providers that are contracted to do a full development, two test flights and six Service Flights back and forth to the International Space station, so now just looking at it dollar value, it will turn out to be a very good value for the american taxpayer when we execute. So where does that reinvestment dollar get paid . And i think the intent is to reinvest that in Exploration Technology to get us back to the moon and get us back to mars. The idea being like i said earlier, lets invest in lowerearth orbit, provide a commercial capability to get cargo back and forth from there and soon to be humans back and forth from there and allow nasa to go beyond lowerearth orbit with the taxpayer investment. Now were going to transition out to the audience for questions, and while we do have mics set up, we actually have someone thats going to walk around. So, if you have a question, you dont need to scooch your way out to the aisle. Just raise your hand and someone will come meet you with the microphone. My name j. D. Horen, with the materials engineering of nae. My question is about space force. A new Military Branch was created last year, so we are going to have Additional Branch for the armed services. With your experience in space, your perspectives are very valuable to make sure the new branch would operate to its maximum efficiency and it delivered the best value. So i just like to see the panel to share some of your views and also maybe specific suggestions so the space force we operated accordingly. The question is your views of space force . Yes. Okay. Or suggestions as well. Ill take that. Would you like to take that, tom . Yeah, ill take it. Okay, well the way that force has been involved over the years, with the armies and maybe the navy, that went on for years, but who invented the wheel but then the air, and i think the first shot ever fired was an italian a twoplace flier, the type you could cross the English Channel in 1910 and some fighting the balkans and somebody fired a rifle out of the backseat. I dont know if he hit anybody, but anyway, so, you know, air became and then a domain of force protection. All youre doing in this case is going higher and faster and to think that its not going to be is, i think, a little naive. And we know what the chinese are doing with hypersonic glide vehicles, and thats out in space. Anyone else want to take that . No . We have internal views on space force up here. Okay. Next question . My name is dan baker from the university of colorado. Im a practitioner of space weather, and many of you on the panel have mentioned space radiation as a concern. I guess my question is, how important is it to you, in your mind, for the future to have forecasts of what the space environment is going to be and to have adequate warning to help, lets say, prepare for the more transient kind of space radiation effects . I think its important for astronauts but not nearly as important as it is for us on the planet. You know, space weather today and im speaking to the choir here, it is how we have we anticipate problems to communications, you know. Weve been very fortunate in that we have not had a major space weather occurrence thats knocked out Satellite Communications and the like, but that is a possibility. So, i think, long before we need to worry about whats the risk to a crew member flying in space, weve got to continually have an ongoing, improving technologically developing space weather capability just to protect us here on the planet. I think some of the ideas floated on protecting astronauts from space radiation and i understand there are some advance wants being made in polymers, but one of the most Practical Applications essentially create built around a spacecraft, which is, of course, extremely power intensive. I mean, this is a problem that were going to have to solve and im well, i would strongly advocate the prediction of such events, i dont know how good were going to get to say, youre good for three years. For your threeyear trip to mars, youll be fine. So, ultimately well have to beat the problem back. He asked about space weather forecasts. I mean, from my perspective, i watched the space weather every time when we launch as much as i look at the other weather. Its the same i mean, it has different effect in that sense that you care about, you know, life on board and the electronics rather than wind in the upper atmosphere, but its just a factor that goes into the whole picture, whole environment. Well take the next question. Right here. From a commercial perspective, what is the end goal . Where do you see this program in, say, 25 years or 50 years . Whats your vision . And this could be hans or chris or sandy, anyone on the panel. Its a good question, actually. We work currently on fixed contracts, and frankly, one of the discussions of commercial, i found that one of the biggest discriminators here, whether you tell somebody, build that to me and dont this is the amount of money you get and then youre on your own. Mostly. Its not quite its not quite like that. We have some support, obviously, but and we work as a team always, but at the end of the day, the money is finite that you get for something. And that is a model i can see helping the cost keeping control because were very cost conscious. Its not billable hours like you have in other, you know, professions. Because thats basically what cost plus is, its billable hour and just goes up and the incentive is not there to keep it low cost. I see that currently we keep these contracts in that way and becomes more and more of a service. And i forgot who said it. I think it was you. It could be like a service that you book it like you book your ticket, basically. You have a certain amount of money to bring stuff from the ground to the moon and whatever else basically and some amount of money that goes to mars, but fundamentally, costs must come down dramatically in the next 25 years to make this work and the whole economics of it close, otherwise it might just be too expensive. So, if i may go for it, sandy. Yeah. In a perfect world, 25 or 50 years from now, probably closer to 50 than 25, to hans point, the cost of launch will have come down, so people like you guys who are launch would comdo people like you who have creative and expertise in a certain area, and you have a perception shift that i mentioned earlier, and. Creative juices flow, and the ideas of what we are missing now is the piece, and what we have is a lot of capabilities that are going to be coming online, but we havent figured out yet how to develop the markets or the use cases for the broader private enterprise if you are not using word commercial, but the broader enterprise, and so getting the access for people to get up there to have good ideas and figuring out the platforms beyond the space station, and what other kinds of adventures we can create in space and so 25 to 50 years from now, i am hoping that we have started to solve the problems and you will see that wedge of activity becoming sort of normal. Im the eternal optimist, however, comma, this is one thing that bothers me, because we all talk about, you know, the 25 to 50 years from now, and we dont have that long. The International Space station is a machine. All of you in the room are engineer and most of you. I am neither, but i have been around you long enough to know that the machines break. We have probably 4 to 8 years of life left on the International Space station, and money is not going to help that. We just dont have enough way to get the pieces and parts there to refurbish it, and make it new. So weve got to, something has to step into the place or we will be exactly where krip was and i was as aaron burr who shot the Space Shuttle, we will shoot the space station with nowhere to go and so somebody has to come up with a Business Case that helps people understand that there is value in going into the lower orbit, and having a pharmaceutical laboratory. There is value in going to the lower orbit, and having materials processing laboratory, because we have demonstrated all of that on the International Space station now for 19 years, and that is what the space stations purpose was and to demonstrate to people in business that this is an incredible, incredibly potentially moneymaking venture, and nobody has bought that case yet. Until somebody buys that case and makes the investment and says that im going to put a platform up there, i thought that bob bigalow was going to do it, because he has had the beam on the International Space station for four or five years and not stepped out yet. Am i being critical . You bet i am. Because nasa and the government spent a lot of money to allow the private sector the go to use the facility to step off to make money, but you dont make money if you are not willing to take a risk. And hanging around the International Space station is risky in one respect, but it is not a business respect, because you room and board and transportation frequently provided by the government. The government doesnt have enough money for all of you conservatives here who believe in the free market, you have an opportunity. Jump off of the International Space station and build the lower orbit infrastructure that we have to have to send humans back to mars. Enough from me. Just to bring the point home, we have one customer right now, which is the International Space station and we need other markets to evolve, and it has taken nine years to get this far, and this is difficult, because it is the first time that we have done this developing the Space Shuttle, and without a commercial market that builds, will we will be ready to retire and get back and forth with humans . I hope not. Andrew . Well, yesterday, i mentioned how fast the Apollo Program was turned on. It was done in three weeks. Also, in the same way the Space Exploration was turned off and on, and also the same thing with bushs exploration, and the same with Obama Administration when the constellation was turned off, and i dont know who is going to be winning the election a year from now in november, but it could be turned off real fast what we have there. So, i cant forecast who is going to be the chief executive from there in the next say two to three cycles. It can go on and off and that is the big risk. Okay. Next question. Okay. Yep. Sebastian, and im limited, but hancs, i am glad you can se well now, and what about jeff bezos and space x, and they have the rockets that took off, and that is amazing, but is that serious competition to space x . I would say that bezos. And he can pay for it also. They are a competition, and they are building great vehicles, but we are ahead of the game, and we have one thing left to do which is to build the rocket to orbit, and that is in some cases has been proven to be harder than people thought. I have learned that myself. It is hard to get to orbit. So we have that advantage, but it is a competition to push to work harder and lowering the costs and becoming the best competitor among the other competitors. Okay. Next question. Hello. My name is tom johns from the university of wisconsin in madison. I would like to thank the panelists for an inspirational session. Since we have a lot of engineers in the room, i would like to ask the question of the future commercialization of space and striking the balance of speed and safety. We have seen in the session, and the fast growth of the technology albeit not fast enough, but however, the last year has brought us insight into what speed can lead to screw ups with regard to the basic laws of Aerospace Engineering in termsra balance between the two is always a challenge. So i am curious what the panelists might comment on what is going on, and the future of what it holds and the role of nasa and efficacy and also involved in term of regulation. Or providing that safeguard against a kind of disaster that would be incredible blow for the whole industry if it happens at a critical moment. Thank you. I think that at the heart of the question, it is about how do you balance speed and safety. Okay. You need both. Safety is a mindset more than anything. And hans and i were talking about this at breakfast a little bit this morning, the safety mindset says we may be two seconds from launch, but i dont feel well and i say stop. You know, thats the critical part is having people who, who have the ethical background to say this is not right. The shortcuts that we are taking are not right. You go back to look at the program that you have in place, just as necessary. And the government doing it or nas a does not mean it is necessarily done more safe, it is just more stupid stuff slower. And so, one of the pleas from undergraduate is that we need to be taught the ethics course for engineers. So that we dont have in this life and death decisions needs the be ethicallygrounded. So there are a number of things that dont have anything to do with the math and science and engineering that we have to ek ma sure th we have to make sure that what is ethical and not ethical. There is a good book to read about the challenger and the underlying title is i forget it. My age. But it is to go on when we know it is not right. And how the think ethically and make the right decision even if it means that the program is slowed for a while. Nothing is going to end a program like rushing to the end. That is done. That is it. People get over years later or that, but none of us get over losing a shuttle. You dont recover from that. It is always a scar that you carry you. So get it right. And chris sorry. If i may. And another thing to think about as opposed to speed is complacency. Right . You get into this mode where it becomes normal operations, and you forget to question things, because things are normalized, and so it is not a speed thing, but it is staying and thinking about what you are doing, and questioning and listening to the system making sure that you can have an environment where people can bring up questions, because that is really where you will create the right safety environment, and moving fast or slow, and it is all about the avoiding the complacency, and that is hard, because i talked about how adaptable we are as human beings, and normalize to the situation, and if you are looking at the accidents, it is about questioning not as carefully as we should have been doing. And let me add to what charlie said. There is another way of saying going fast and slow. The worst thing that you can have is and ontime failure. Kis chris, you are going to aboard, and what is your thought about speed and safety . Well, the thing is that speed and safety are not synonymous. I have had the unique opportunity to watch every part designed from the parts that come together and make me a foremost expert . No, but i am an interested watcher. And we are a specific, and hans, a unique set of requirements that are coming from nasa and bathed in the experiences and the mistakes that nasa has made in the way that it is running space Flight Operations in the past. And we have a lot of help from nasa. And sometimes too much help, but i will tell you that any amount of help in the right area is the good thing. So this is a very appropriate transition between a governmentrun and managed program over to the commercially managed program with enough of the past steeped in, and boeing, and the Legacy Companies have been involved in every Space Flight Program, and we still work with an enormous amount of people who work the shuttle. So that mentality and the mindset is still there, and ultimately, i think that having the folks on the floor and watching the hardware come together, and i have had the unique opportunity to do that and it doesnt really build a whole lot of confidence. And my model is the on paranoids of life. You have the right amount of paranoia and if that means stopping the launch and explaining to the customer why you lunched it three days. It is more important to get them down right than on time. Next question. Yes, so i have heard so much about the cost and the complexity of getting things from the earth to the lower orbit as being one of the barriers of the concept of both in Science Fiction and in some of the serious aeronautical journals has been the space elevator, and anybody still thinking the about the concept of the space elevator . Well, i can tell you that when i was the executive director, we have a Passionate Community inside of the Aerospace Industry that is very enthusiastic about the space elevator, and so it is still out there as a concept. Technically some roadblocks of the strength of the cable, and we have to get the cables together that are strong and handle all of the tension, and i dont know the details, but i do know that there is a Passionate Community out there. And the material science problem, but we solve things like that. Yep, yep. Next question over there. Andy jackson and section 10 and i dont want to be a downer on this, but talking about the human space flight, and humans are fragile and the colonel say how many pounds of this and oxygen and water and food, and is there an interim step that could be less expensive . We are the convergence of the Artificial Intelligence and robotic design, and would it be better to construct a community on mars which is based on the robots and not on people, but the people themselves can control those robots so that you have the experience . It seems like a huge amount of the cost to getting us to mars is to protect the fragile beings and even talking about the radiation to get there, and any thoughts on an alternative way to create a community on mars without necessarily sending the people there first, and go there later. You have curiosity, and you v have automated things such as extracting oxygen from the air, and it is part of the fuel. And so we have been doing that, and doing it for 50 years. Im not a geologist, but i have geology friends who said that if we put one geologist on the plan tet of mars for curiosity, and it is not a joke, but it is innate curiosity that humans have that we are not able yet to teach a robot. Artificial intelligence and all of these other things will be here one of these days, we think. An example i will give you is that the hubbel space telescope, and when we found out they had a atmospheric collaboration, and we were not sending the shuttle up to get the hubbel, the academy put together at the urging of senator barbara m mikulski by the way, we went into opportunity to save hub, and even the human space flight said that we have to find a robotic capability to do it. The technology wasat tnot there the time. And if we had hubbel today, we could go to put a lot of the robotic repairs on hubbel that have been done to date, because we have the experience of the humans going out there to mess around to find out the things that we can do and automate, and that is essentially the story of to International Space specification. You r2 and the robots roaming around and the spheres and how do you offload the human from doing the mundane thing, and it is now time to send the humans to mars to try to pull together some of the things that the robots have been doing for 50 years now, i think. Well, looking at it as a tool box, and the humans have with certain skills and pros and cons and the machines have certain skills and pros and cons and just like the tool box in the garage, you cant do everything with all hammers or screwdrivers, and you need a mix. So it is what is the mission and what you are trying to accomplish. Both of them are expensive infrastructure whether it is in space or on the ground, and come with fragility and limitations, so you design the mission around, pick the tools for the mission and based on the goals and the objectives are, and that is the case. It is never going to be the either or but an and at some level. And quickly again, i am a big fan of mars, and i think that Everybody Knows that. Am a big fan of using robots in the right place, but before we put a single human foot on mars, we need an army of robots to burrow into the surface and build out the infrastructure and the same way we do for any american soldier, marine or airman or anyone who goes to the strange places in the earth. So they walk into the hooch, and they dont build it. Kellogg and brown or somebody with a whole bunch of the robots take the prefab stuff there, and go into the air conditioned space to do it, and now, you still have to dig a foxhole when you are out there in the remote parts, but we can build the habitats with robots, and that is a business we can work on now. And now you . Well, maybe slightly apples, and oranges, but to follow charlie, it took a curiosity of mars 3 1 2 years to cover the same distance that gene cernan and jack did on apollo in three day, and they brought back that pounds of rocks. Unique and cost more for dcerna. And so you talk about collaboration and it seems to me that one of the big elephants in space might be china, and so i am interested in your response in addressing the relationship in terms of space and china. Why does everybody look at me . Am the guy that shot him. Again. Say what you will about president obama, and the Obama Administration, and in 2010, we thought that we were on the verge of having another apollo soy soyuz, but it was a shinjo shuttle and shot down by the congress. So all of you recognize, because a lot of your intellectual and academic partners are chinese. We have problems with everybody. The ability to work with the cosmos on the International Space station is so well, that it is missionfocused to make the world a better place. When i was commanded to command the last Space Shuttle, george abby said go back to houston and fly another shuttle mission. I said what was it . I hoped it was to repair hubbel and he said not on your life. He said, i want you have to go back to command the First Mission to carry a russian cosmonaut, and i said, george, forget it. I am a marine and i have trained all of my life to kill them, and them to me, and i dont want the fly with any damn russian, and he said now that you have said that, calm down. Two guys are in town and go have dinner with them, and then tell me what you think in the morning. So i went out and what we talked about that night it didnt have anything to do with the technology. We talked about our kids and what we wanted to do for the future, and we became missionfocused on figuring out how we could get our two teams together and successfully work on that mission, and it became shuttle mir and now the International Space station s and tom is going to tell you the same thing about alexi linov. And i graduated from the Naval Academy and went into the air force, because the korean war was going on, and the air force had the first plane that i was a cold warrior, because i wanted to go to russia and shoot down migs and kill the komis. And so so i ended up working one shuttle, and now alexi is one of my dear friends and just like a brother to me. And in fact, his granddaughter is named after my daughter and my two grandsons are named after alexi. But, the whole thing is that we were really work good together. I was the one who told dan gilbert along with george abby that we have to work the russian, because we need a crew escape vehicle and the soyuz was there, and i didnt know that two years later i would adopt two russian orphan boys. And the next question. Hi, megan smith from shift 7 and proud member, hello, charlie, proud member of section 10. Two quick thing, and charlie, i loved what you said about the ethics, and i always wondered if we at the nie might think of the hippocratic oath that the canadians got from the bridge when it fell down, but maybe from the group to lift some hidden figure stories and so many people, and of course in apollo and the Space Mission was borne at the same time as massive civil rights work, and race equality and gender equality and lgbtq and at the time there was so much discrimination of choosing who could go, and still people snuck in to find their way to participate in the teams, and i thought that maybe the panel could lift some of the stories for us, one or two ideas and the one i would share is betty skeleton who is the first of the first known as the land speed records and speed records that we used to call the 7 1 2, and she embedded with them for a look magazine story and did every test and met with the russians and did all of things, and beautiful pictures from the 1961 article, should a girl be first in space. And the space suits didnt fit her either and still dont, but sharing the stories, as there are women, women of all races and men of color, and lgbtq folks that you might reflect on in the space race or recently that less people know that you would share and things that we as the academy can do to make sure that the stories are more well known. I cant share the Hidden Figures kind of story, but a story that addresses the root of what you are asking about. So i was in middle school when i first dreamed of being an astronaut and i had no idea how i would do it, and i had no idea fit was possible, but it is something that i really decided it is who i was. In 1978 when i entered high school, there was an article on the front page of the newspaper in small town Southern Illinois and across the front page was splashed women accepted into the international nasa corps and a picture splashed with all of the women and when i saw that newspaper article and that picture and i mean, i started crying quite frankly, because at that moment, i realized that the dream that i had was possible that there was a path, and there were people like me that i could identify with that did what i always dreamed of doing, and over the years, i have sort of synthesized the moment into pow oref role models, and how important it is that everyone in the room is a role model for some constituency, and im not talking about gender or race, but your hometown, and the high school that you went to, and the community that you live n and your nieces and nephews, because kids never listen to their parents, but the nieces and the nephews, and there is somebody somewhere that you are a role model for, and to your point, what nia do, and this group of to nia is very talent and successful. So i encourage you to get out there and be role models, and encourage people and excite people about your passion and in s. T. E. M. And that is what it is going to take to create more and more people engaging in the fields, but do not underestimate the power of role models. I will stop there. Other hidden figure stories . I will bring up one point that i have three daughters, and i became convinced early in my career that women could do whatever they wanted to. And i had the pleasure of sally ride on my crew, and she lived up to everything that i expected of her. And went on the help inspire other young girls to get involved in s. T. E. M. Projects. 35 years ago today, Kathy Sullivan and sally ride were on my crew on 41g, and we had, we were going to prove that kathy was quite capable of doing a spacewalk, because a lot of men doubted that a woman could. She went out, and did the job superbly, a superbly, and we have had all kinds of women do the space walks and somebody brought up yesterday maybe two women going out together on the International Space station very soon. I am sure that tom and bob and charlie could not imagine, you know, in the 60s and the 70s flying the tactical airplanes with the woman on their wing in the tactical aircraft, and women in combat aviation, and Aerospace Aviation came about when i was an aviator and it was a rocky start, and before too long, we didnt think twice about it, and now on my crew, we have nicole mann who is a colonel in the marine corps, and boeing f18 kornet pilot, and she is absolutely awesome. It is just amazing how quickly things have come about and the opportunities in aviation and in engineering. You know, we had lead flight directors and two of them women, and lead spacewalkers who were women, and just like i said in the met amorphosis in the last 0 years is incredible. I know that nobody is here speaking directly of artemis, and we cannot negligent that. For me as a woman and mother of a 4yearold daughter and 1yearold son, i mean, it is phenomenal. So it is time for us to begin wrapping up unless somebody at the nea gives me prudent permission to go further. So it is time for us to wrap up, and we will be quick, but i want to give you one sentence to just give a close. One sentence. There you go, tom. You go first. Work hard. Bob . Dont screw up. Be a good role model for those around you. The next 12 months is going to be pivotal for human space flight. Yeah. And i dont want to repeat you, but dont screw up and that is a nice word. What you have in the time that you have and the place that you are. Really great. And so, i will close by saying that many years ago i had an opportunity to have dinner with gene cernan who was the last person to walk on the moon and he sended it with my thanks to all american ingenuity, and my heart swells that it is not just the people in space, but it is the scientists and the engineers and the entire Space Program. It has inspired the nation, the world, and it is competitive, collaborative, and inspired adults, inspired kids, and i cannot wait to see what the next generation and the current generation of scientists and engineers and astronauts innovate next in space over the next 50 years. So thank you so much for all of you being here and all of your wonderful questions. Thank you so much to the panelists. It has an an extreme honor. Cspan is live with President Trump and a rally in sunrise, florida, and the first since changing his residency from new york to florida. And listen on the go with the free cspan radio app. Watch an extended weekend of book tv on this Holiday Weekend. Here are some of the features starting thursday at 1 30 p. M. , nikki haley recounts the time as u. S. Ambassador to the u. N. In the trump administration. I would always make a point when we would ask to go to the area to sit in a room with the group of women. And no offense to the fellows in the audience, but the women had a way of sitting down with them, and they could tell you what the problem was and how they got to that point and how the fix it. At 3 20 p. M. Friday, Ronan Farrell is going to talk about the efforts to stop his reporting. This is not a journalistic decision happening. We were told to cancel interviews with the rape victims and stand down and not take a single call on this subject. I was threatened that i was going to be exposed as having terminate and let go from the company if i ever disclosed that nbc had anything to do with the story. Saturday at 11 00 p. M. Eastern in the new book sam houston and the alamo avengers, Brian Kilmeade offers an explanation of the civil war. He thought that he was impervious, and he was shot three times and should have died. So he learned calculations. And so i have a waze app, and what did he learn . Courage has to be fragile and calculated. Sunday at noon eastern is live at the manhattan senior fellow jason riley. The number of black officials elected in the country has the grown from fewer than 1,500 to over 10,000, and of course twice elected black president , and that is the Voting Rights act. And at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on after words university of virginia history professor discusses the history of tobacco and also joined by the fda commissioner david kessler. Smoking in the early 1900s was considered unamerican, and the vice of the foreignborn, and so the antismoking movement of the first two decades of the 20th century, kind of rode that a wave of nativism in thinking about what type of behavior is appropriate for nativeborn healthy americans. Watch an extended version of book tv this Holiday Weekend and every weekend on cspan 2. Cspan student cam 2020 competition is in full swing. Across the country, the middle and High School Students are hard at work and creating the short documentaries on the issues they would like the 2020 president ial candidates to address in the campaigns. Wed love to see your progress. Take us behind the scenes and share the photos using the studentcam2020 for a chance to win additional cash prizes. Still working on the idea . We have resources on the website to get out with our student cam page has information to assist you. There are a total prize of 5,000 grand prize. All of the entries must be uploaded and received by january 20, 2020. The best advice i can tell the young filmmakers is never to take the issue too seriously. So have an opinion and start now. Go to cspan. Org studentcam. And now, a look at the various policies and what congress is doing. The migration policy institute, and the catholic legal institute, and also Georgetown Institute of migration held at the u. S. mexico border. Please take your seats so we can start as close the time as possible. Thank you, again, for sticking out with the last session as we say in the conferences that we keep the best for the last