Who repaired it. If you are interested in looking at things like artifacts, serial culture, paintings, fine arts, decorative arts, the white house has all of those things as well. If you are into politics, policy obviously, that is the big one people think about. Even in terms of pop culture, or political culture, understanding the white house is a symbol for american democracy. And how that symbol has changed and evolved over time. It says a lot about who we are, the american identity itself, and i think all of these different ways of studying the white house touches on all of these Different Things that you may not get in a traditional American History textbook. But if you dig deeper, there is an incredible history beneath the surface. Susan lindsay chervinsky, a White House Historical , a new role, we will spend time with both of you learning about your work and about the association. I want to ask you to give the elevator speech about the association, how it got started and what is its mission . Lindsay the association was founded by Jacqueline Kennedy to preserve and protect the history of the white house. And share that history with the American People more broadly. Since then, we have worked on that mission to try and cultivate the white house, the first floor especially, as a museum for the people to tell the story of the white house and the story of the nation. To try to make it a little more accessible for visitors that come through. Susan why the first floor specifically . Lindsay the first floor is referred to as the state floor. It has the historic rooms when we think of the color rims, red room, greenroom, blue room, east room. That is where the big events that we think of typically in American History have taken place. Where a lot of the famous diplomats and guests were greeted. And where a lot of the interactions day to day, both in terms of the workers and people who live there took place. That is the room we that is the floor we really focus on. It is filled with beautiful pieces of furniture and art that represent the white houses history more broadly, but also from parts of the american experience. We have american landscapes that showcase all of the different wonderful landscapes available in the nation. Also key moments in u. S. History as well. Susan do you have an official role with the white house . Matthews we are the private nonprofit partner that works with the white house. When i explain it to people, think of it almost like a foundation with an educational mission. Because the federal government only will appropriate money essentially for the maintenance and upkeep of the building. If you want the state floors to have president ial portraits, state services, historic artifacts that are returned to the white house, all of that has to be raised privately because there is no taxpayer money is used for those things. Susan do you have a say as to what pieces are in the white house . How does that work . Matthews there is a group called the committee for the preservation of the white house. It consists of the major heads of various federal agencies like the smithsonian, white house curator, head of the National Park service. There is a number of president ial appointees that serve on the committee. The Association Works for the preservation of the white house to acquire things, but also for various renovation projects. When First Lady Laura Bush decided to renovate the lincoln bedroom in 20042005, the association helped fund the project itself but also the research that went into it. Susan it is called an association. Do people belong as members . We do have a membership program. It is for the ground by leaps it has grown by leaps and bounds. What we tell people is that for a modest fee, i think it is 50, that they can help us preserve and enhance the executive mansion for future generations. That money goes toward public programming, education initiatives, our quarterly journal. But also probably our most popular publication, the guidebook which is something that was thought up by first lady Jacqueline Kennedy. We are moving into our 25th addition. Susan and of course, the White House Christmas ornaments. Which has been around probably 30 plus years now i would think. They used to be the primary way the association raised money, is that right . Lindsay yes. It is still part of our fundraising plan. It is a wonderful ornament. There is one every year that represents a different presidency. This year we are celebrating president to dwight d. Eisenhower. It usually has some sort of theme relating to their presidency. This year is the helicopter because president eisenhower was the first president to ride in a helicopter. Susan you came to the association with a relatively new president. Tommy the story of how you came associated with one another previously. I would like to hear that story. Matthew i first met stuart many years ago when i was at mount vernon doing research. My dissertation was on George Washingtons tomb and the memory of George Washington in the 19th century. I started researching there in 2012. 2011. It was before they had the fly very. At that point, the staff and materials were crammed into the administration building. It was tight quarters. We inevitably crossed paths. I asked if he wanted to grab coffee sometime. We kept in contact. Then i continued in my graduate studies. He left mount vernon, and then he ended up landing at the White House Historical association and then two years later, i defended my dissertation on washington. About five months later, i got a phone call, and he said there is a history in position open. Would you consider applying . I said, absolutely. Before i knew it, i was moving to washington, d. C. To start at the association. In fall of 2016. Susan you describe yourself in the same article as self taught more or less on the white house history because there is not an existing graduate program. Matthew unfortunately. I think lindsay, she is going through the growing pains of this right now. Lindsay in process. Matthew when we go into these very specific graduate programs, oftentimes we end up writing about a Research Topic that is very specific, very narrow and focused. Our scholarly training reflects that. We are experts on early American History, that was our training. Now, being a white house historian, the story of the white house does not end in 1820. It continues and changes and evolves. All of a sudden, you find yourself using all of your knowledge of American History and starting to connect the dots. In terms of major changes in American Society or demographic or economic changes. You can see these things unfolding at the white house. So, it is one of those things where you do not really learn the depths of the history until you get into the job, then you realize how incredibly complicated and complex it actually is. Susan what is your story, how did you get to the association . Lindsay i met matt, we were both at mount vernon as follows. We were there for an extended period of time. I was working on my dissertation on washington, a different aspect. We stayed friends and touched base occasionally about what we were up to. I had a postdoctoral fellowship at the president ial history in dallas. That was coming to an end. They happened to have an opening. Matt called me and said hey, we have this position coming up, would you like to apply . I said sure. It all worked out and i started in february. I was very fortunate that that, as many historians know, the job market is not particularly great. I feel fortunate to be able to do history work for a living which i love. And to work in a place that is really fantastic. Susan how many historians does the association have on staff . Matthew youre looking at them. Susan the two of you matthew we do have a Fellows Program with american university. During the academic year, one of their public history masters students will work with us as a research assistantshiop. P. It is like we have three historians on staff. We are always bringing in students from other programs. This summer, we will have a doctoral student from George Washington university. We have brought students from usc the last two summers. We are always trying to get new perspectives and experiences and also students from different parts of the country who can come and learn, and work with us in d. C. Susan our network has a Long Association with bill seale, white house historian. What role does he play with the work you do . Matthew bill is primarily based out of texas. When he comes up, we usually have a few conversations about what we are working on and what he is doing. He is very inquisitive. He likes to make sure we have looked into all of the sources he knows about. Susan he is an encyclopedia. Matthew sometimes when we look for information, we cant find it on the internet. The best place is to write an email to bill. Chances are he knows or he knows where to look. Bill, i have been at the association for two and a half years, and bill has been a great mentor in terms of these are the places you should start looking and these are the things he you should start reading. Susan when new people come on the first thing handed to them is his master work on white house history. Which is right now in two volumes on we are coming up with a third volume. Working through that is so much information already in such a great place to start. He is always our starting point for learning about the history. Susan do you find it slightly ironic that as historians, your specialists in George Washington , the only president to ever with to never live in the white house . Matthew yes. It is ironic. We have to make a joke about it or else people will snicker around the sides. It is interesting that here we are. Lindsay he put a huge stamp on the building. Susan what did he do specifically . Lindsay first and foremost, he selected the site of where it would be. He selected the city and where they house was going to be within the city. He had a Surveyors Training and background and enjoyed partaking in that as a hobby when he was older. He came to d. C. , surveyed the entire potomac and selected the spot. Once the spot was selected in the process was in place, he picked which design was going to be implemented, and he worked with all of the various architects. He met with james hogan before selecting his design. I suspect, but there is no record, i suspect he said, here are the things im looking for for his president s house in philadelphia, he had a bow window added to the reception rooms. I think he then had brought into the white house in the oval drawing rooms we see. There are certain architectural elements he absolutely brought to the white house. Susan what do you want people to know about washingtons association to the white house . Matthew when it comes to washington, i see the white house essentially as a primary source. If you study the evolution and the changes in architecture and the materials used, the laborers, the designers, commissioners, it traces back to one source. And it is president washington. Even though he did not live in the house, he built a house, like he was going to live in it. That is not to suggest washington wanted to be president forever, it is to suggest he thought the president s house needed to represent the head of the state for a strong new republic. That was the vision he had for that house. Even though he had no intention of living there. It was interesting seeing the dynamic go backandforth between him and jefferson. Jefferson had a different idea of what the house should look like. As lindsay alluded to earlier there was not much in , washington, d. C. It was mostly farmland, swamps, marshes. To put this incredibly striking Stone Building in the middle of the National Capital was to send a message to the rest of the world that the United States president should be respected and it should be a symbol that is treasured by its people. Susan while we are on the subject of George Washington, you mentioned your dissertation which is on his tomb and the creation of memory of George Washington. You have been out talking to people about that. How do you link that book which is specific to a president who did not live there and a tomb at mount vernon with the work you are doing at the association . Matthew i really see washington as the linchpin between those things. There is also a connection with the u. S. Capitol as well because at one point, there was a plan to tomb washington in the United States capital within the crypt. They wanted to have an open air hole in the rotunda and a statue of washington and then washington entombed below. There were plans and designs at different moments to entomb him in the nations capital. I look past the white house and i see the Washington Monument pass the white house which became the substitute in the 19th century for memorializing washington. If they were not going to move his body, they wanted to build something magnificent. The Washington Monument standing at 555 feet tall, it was pretty incredible for its time. I think it ended up taking 40 years just to complete. Susan what was the focus of your research . My book is called the president s cabinet george , washington and the creation of an american institution. It looks at how the cabinet came about. It is an institution we are familiar with. A very public thing but not in the constitution. It was not created by any legislation. My book set about asking where did it actually come from . The answer is that washington created it about two and a half years into his presidency to provide advice and support when constitutional questions came up or diplomatic crises. It really was intended to be a private advisory body for the president to use as he saw fit. Washington convened the cabinet in his private study and the president s house. The president s following him really follow that model. It has continued to meet in the white house and both public and private way since then. That is the story of my book and how it connect to this broader story. Susan it is not on the public poor but if people have a rare opportunity to see whether cabinet meets, where is it . Lindsay the cabinet room has met in a number of different places. In jeffersons presidency, it met in his private study which is part of the state dining room. It then moved upstairs for quite some time, lincoln and all of the 19th century president s met in the cabinet room upstairs. Now, i believe it is in the west wing. Susan by the oval office. Matthew right. Adjacent to the road skirting. Rose garden. Susan it was a residence, an office, a place the public came regularly, what period of time would it have been a functioning office for the president . Matthew as lindsay said, most of the 19th century, the president s would have used that secondfloor space which was technically part of the residents in the private quarters. The president generally lived on the west side of the hall. On the east side of the hall was where president ial staff was located. As presidencies and administrations grew larger and larger, by the time you get to about 1900s when there is not space. The staff needs more room. It is when Theodore Roosevelt becomes president in 1901, one of the things he will do is build the west wing. He will demolish the conservatory and green houses to the west and what they will build is the first iteration of the west wing. In that west wing he wont have an oval office. That is where the president s office will be. The cabinet room will be moved over. More, of house becomes a home as opposed to a shared space. Susan that is a subject of your next book i have heard. What aspects of it will you be looking at . Matthew i want to tell the story of that renovation through the roosevelt family. Because i think there is a misconception that Theodore Roosevelt did everything himself. Actually, Edith Roosevelt contributes to a lot of his different ideas and policies. When they moved into the white house, she drew this diagram of where the children were sleeping on the second floor. She put her office, which was the second floor oval room, and it is next door to the president s office. They shared a door. When he goes down to see the digging of the panama canal, who does he bring with him . Edith roosevelt. In terms of first lady responsibilities, you see something shifting at the turnofthecentury. Roosevelt had a different relationship. It was something that they treated each other much more like partners and equals when it came to things like politics, but also family. Susan women still cannot vote at that time. When you look across the history of the white house, which president s were most influential in changing the building to what we know today . Lindsay the roosevelts, both of them, are huge. Fdr was in the white house for a long time. He was going to have a huge impact. After him, truman oversaw a huge renovation. I also think jackson was a huge player. Under jacksons presidency, the first time the east room is finished properly. That is a huge moment. Then moving backwards, i would say the combination of madison and monroe, the white house burned in 1814 during the war of 1812. The rebuild and making sure it stayed in washington, d. C. Which was not questioned, it was possible they would move the question capital elsewhere. Refinishing it to be a proper house of state, that was a huge decision and had a huge impact. Susan how much of the white house that people get to see today is original . Matthew are we talking about sandstone walls . [laughter] going off of what lindsay said, when truman does the renovation, he essentially, the building is gutted. They try to save different materials to reuse them. Some can be salvaged but others