Volunteers will present each of you with the vietnam veteran lapel pin. On the back of the pin is emb s embossed a grateful nation thanks and honors you. The lapel pin is the nations lasting memento of thanks. We offer our exhibition, if you havent already, i hope you will take some time to go through it. Its an exploration of the vietnam war. Featuring americans and vietnamese civilians. Its a fascinate iing coverage including photos and artifacts that include both the United States and vietnam. The imagery of remembering vietnam, relies on the talents of many photographers who risk their own safety to capture the story in war pane pictures. Tonight well hear from some of those combat photographers and learn their own stories. Its my honor to welcome leonard page. He works as an independent contractor as an actor, screenwriter and creative producer. Hes an active screenwriter play rights. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome lee reynolds and the panel. Thank you, mr. Ferrio. Thanks to all of you for coming out and attending the event. Im lee reynolds. The Strategic Communications officer. And ill be moderating the event this evening. The center of military history is responsible for the recording, the official history of the army in peace and war. While advising the army staff on historical matters. Our core responsibilities are to educate the force and the public, to inspire americas men and women to serve and to preserve our army heritage. I invite you to visit our website at history. Army. Mil. We are proud and honored to support the 50th commemoration of the vietnam war with this evenings Panel Presentation about the department of the Armys Special Photographic Office or daspo for short. Daspo was authorized by president kennedy in 1962 and closed down in 1974, following the end of the vietnam war. It was charged with documentary films and photo quality products showing the armys operations worldwide. They would report directly to the army chief of staff. Three detachments were created, one in europe, covering operations there. One in hawaii, and one in pan mark to cover operations in central and south america. Tonight we will focus on the pacific daspo office. The teams made up by the men you see on stage tonight would state of the art equipment out into combat and often by themselves and embed with an army unit in the field. They went where journalists couldnt go or wouldnt go. The result as you will see tonight captured on film some of the most iconic pictures and films of the vietnam war. These images were note just used by the army, they could be seen in newspapers, magazines and films throughout the United States and the world. At the end of the presentation tonight were going to have about 10 minutes for questions and answers. Hopefully on the way in, you will get index cards. We have assistants on each end and they will collect the cards. If you need an index card or pennsylvania ilt, let one of our assistant thes know. Id like to introduce dr. Eric bellard. Hes author of the new book about vietnam called staying the course, october 1967 to september 1968. And hell be available in the lobby after the event to sign copies of the book, and his book will be available for purchase. Ladies and gentlemen, dr. Bellard. Thank you for coming and those tuning in to the live stream. This is an event thats been in the works for a while. Im pleased to be here with these great photographers. I was hired at the u. S. Army center of military to write the book which became staying the course, which is the Third Operational combat history in the vietnam war series. It was published about a year ago, we had the opening book event here in the national archives. In the course of doing the research over many years, i came to really value the photographic archival history. The images, the film from the vietnam war, helping me understand what i was reading in the text. Being a visual person anyway, i gravitated toward it, are and about 4 or 5 years ago, in fact created a facebook group, as a way of reaching out to veterans and engaging with them and their families and getting more information, and one of the draws of this group was, these great photos that i was finding at the national archives. Going up to college park and digitizing these, and i had sign a lot of photos, but a lot off these i had never seen before. It was such a revelation. And over the course of digitizing these photos, certain names popped in again and again. Dafune, atkison and others. When i formed the facebook group. Photo shop and some other programs, this is what you see behind you, the current generation of these photos where i pour the pixie dust back into them, and take off the dings and scratches and adjust the color. These guys were around. Until they became members of the group. They remain members of the group. Its a wonderful thing to post a photo, hey, bob, what were you doing that day when you took that shot. Oh, yeah, we were at this, that and the other. As a result of that kind of dialect. This is something you share with everyone. The world needs to know about these guys. They need to hear the stories behind the photos. We work together. And i want to give special thanks to charles boughry, jr. Who believed in this vision and supported us and made this all happen. Tonight youre going to hear from 5 of the top photographers, i see this as the beginning of an on going project. Im posting these photos on the social media feed. I encourage you to follow and learn more about it. Were going to hear from these five individuals. Im going to run the slide show for most of them until we get the final one. Without further ado, id like to turn our speaker, bill hamill who will tell us about the history of daspo and what it took to herd this group of wildcats. Keep them in line when theyre doing their thing in vietnam. I was the captain with daspo o. And i started with the United States Army Photographic agency. In the pentagon and worked mip way into daspo, and i left there january 1st, 1970 my mos is an 8500. 8500 is a pictorial unit commander and 8511 is a Motion Picture tv director. And in those capacities i wore a couple different hats. Well get into that in a moment. To talk about the origin of zaspo, around 1961 or 62 general david who was the chief of staff of the army at that time would go to briefings over at the white house with jfk. And the chiefs. Every time he would go there, he would walk out and be furious. He would say to his deputy. You know, that curtis lemay, every time we go in there, hes mouthing off with his photographs and his movies and he puts us to shame. I want to do something just like he does. And i want it done now. And he of course, curtis lemay was affectionately called iron ass. But he wanted to compete with lemay. He wanted an elite special apps unit. Im going to read to you what they tried to create and which they did. Im going to read it because i dont want to miss something. He wanted a Rapid Response team. He wanted the team to be full time, he wanted the team to be highly mobil. He wanted them unincumbered by red tape. He wanted everyone to have a secret or top seek relate clearance. He wanted quality still and Motion Picture products. He wanted us to have the best equipment and also tdy into the countries we went to, and we were told to live on the academy. And the reason for that is, well get into that in a second. Also, it was special missions ordered by the deputy chief of staff. Thats who we worked for, thats where our budget came from. And the units that they developed for panama and europe as lee said. The deal was, if its going to the pacific, local commands could not take charge or have anything to do with our unit except to give them an office on the base europe said no, were note going to do that. Pacific said fine, hands off. Same in pan mark fine. Have them come in, europe said no. Europe never did get a team. It ended up going to taconis and thats where it stayed. The objective was disposition of the work product that got sent where it should go. The officer who put that all together was major jones. He put a Team Together he did a lot of developing with it. He wanted an acronym he cherry picked the photographers that would go into the initial units. They got them through the pic center, and throughout the course of time they would try to find enlisted men and officers who have backgrounds in the photo. In my particular case, i was found by Lieutenant Colonel walter helleren. Who found me in georgia, going through the officers communication course. I had three years of background in Motion Pictures because i worked for a studio in chicago. He found me, and he put me in the pentagon. I thought, boy, this is really a good organization, they know what theyre doing. So anyway, the ordeal was, no parades, no complaining of bands, no marching bands, you guys dont shoot that. Youre going to do documentary, training films, combat. And youre going to be not a Public Information officer or office type of unit. Lastly, special orders with a license to steal that we were accused of one time in okinawa. The mission was top secret, never told anybody about it, i wont even talk about it tonight. I happened to open a book and the middle of the page was written by the author of top secrets or whatever the name of the book was, and there was this whole deal in the middle of the book all about our top secret mission. Im going to read just a few lines from our instructions. If there was no military aircraft available you could take private airline. Pan am, twa. You can rent the ship, the naval boat. You can do anything you wanted to accomplish your mission. And if anything would deter us from accomplishing our mission, we could circumvent the problem and do what we wanted. We had total freedom to move around. And this is what really irritated that colonel in okinawa. The utilization of government quarters and mess is not required. Well, we walked in there, he said, youre not going to a hotel, youre going to be on the youre going to be in the enlisted quarters, sir, we cant function that way. Thats not what our ordinaries say, and going back to whey said originally, living on the economy. We had to be together 24 hours a day. We were a mobil force ready to go. And the enlisted men were downtown and i was downtown in saigon, we have orders to go do something, it would probably take two days to get us all together and also we would we had to peel potatoes that day, because we had kp. Thats why we lived on the economy. Anything that would adversely affect our performance of duty, we could circumvent, the other thing that ticked that colonel office, we were authorized to wear and carry civilian clothes. He didnt like that, we had to be in uniform. Photo number one. We had to be together 24 hours a day. This was the villa we lived in, and we had how am i doing on time . Ill talk fast. We all were on per deem, we chipped in and paid the rent for the house, we had some locals who did our laundry and cooked for us, guys would come home, they would have a hot cooked meal, they could get a hot shower. Photo two is my capacity as an 8500 commander. This was a typical situation at the villa, we called it the villa. And we my job was the welfare and safety make sure they had a roof over their head and everything was functioning. I had great ncos who made that happen. Basically, thats what was going on. My job every other day was to go to the war room. We call it the war room, the briefing room. Where i was briefed on what was going on in each of the four corners. I woe see activity, jot it down. By activity, i mean some place that was hot. I put it, go back to the villa, put a Team Together, thats whereny would go. To that location. Many times they hitchhiked. Periodically could get them orders to be on a flight. But for the most part thats what happened. This photo, there would be two or three more teams up country this time. This would be the number of personnel there at any given time. 2, 3, 9, 12 guys up country. They were always rotating. And then as a pic director, my 8511 capacity, i used to get some cushy jobs. Im on the line with bob and a couple other guys, and Vice President hubert humphrey. In saigon and vietnam at the time. This is what i recall a cushy assignment, so im directing and its my butt you can see in that photo. The next photo is the opposite this was not so cushy. The father of helicopter warfare, flew me to d. C. , he told me what he wanted. And so i went back and did a complete series on the shoot. We were not allowed to shoot, officers the next photo shows me out making that film. And i was shooting, we were on an air assault, and i had. I couldnt resist taking the shot there are some other shots that go along with that that were trying to find. I had three Motion Picture cameras. The Lieutenant General said, you want helicopters in the air . Whatever you want you got. I want this filmed, though. At one time we had 15 helicopters up there going to war, doing their thing. We shot every conceivable subject in vietnam. And the networks bite our foota footage. We put the footage on pan am, twa to get it back. The army pictorial center. Post gaspo. I opened my own agency and ive done that from 73 or so until the present day. So we are honored to have some of gaspos finest photographers still and motion men sitting here tonight. Our next speaker is one of the greatest gaspo still photographers, bob la foe. Thats me, im bob la foe. I was born in washington, d. C. , hail to the redskins. Im retired now, fully. My basic day is playing golf. In the afternoons i own up at the vfws and play pinnochle. I graduated from Photography School in september of 1965. Like many of my fellow photographers, i received orders for gaspo located in hawaii. My first thought, there is a god. Beaches, surfing, bikinis and fun in the sun. I guess at the time, being a soldier in the in the army, it invaded me. And in october of 1965, i arrived aboard a troop ship pearl harbor. What a hell of a pleasure trip that was. The majority of the soldiers aboard the ship were from the First Infantry Division heading onward to vietnam. Having listened to the soldiers, i was listening to what would happen in vietnam but luckily i was going to hawaii. This junior was about to get the first of the rude awakenings. The first awakening was with my signed sponsor kermit yoho who picked me up at pearl harbor. No longer the youngest and lowest ranking soldier in the unit. I now had that distinction. As we were driving, he began explaining exactly what gaspo did and where and what it was all about. My bubble immediately burst. Grip and grins in hawaii were out of the qui a few weeks after i arrived, yoho rotated back into vietnam, i believe in was his soaked rotation in. From october through december of 65 while there, most of us were filming the 25th Infantry Division training and preparing to deploy to vietnam. My first of four rotations to vietnam started on three january 1966. As we began to rotate into vietnam, other teams were rotating back. Two team members rotating back was Sergeant First Class jackie yamaguchi, we called him the guch when he wasnt looking and Sergeant First Class tom sharl. Early in november of 1965 yamaguchi and sharl were with Lieutenant Colonel moore filming a brutal battle in the valley. My bax of fire and combat photography began in early january 1966 during operations crip, butt skin and van buren. We were asked to share some of the photos we took during our rotation, so i selected a couple of them. The first photo, you see, was taken on 23 january 1966, during operation van buren, i was with soldiers of the 327th infantry, 101st airborne division. We landed in a cold landing zone that day, soldiers in the first wave established a perimeter to protect and secure the arrival of fellow soldiers on different waves. Shortly after this was taken, we all moved out. The next photograph, this is what was taken also during operation van buren, this is chaplain captain bruno masadi, he and his assistants flew in and provided mass for the 327 soldiers. If you look at the photos, father masadis left, kneeling down, unfortunately jack was killed in action months later, on may 4, 1966. Father masadi passed away back in the 90s. Ive been in communication with his wife for several years. In an article, he later stopped wearing the white robe with a cross, it seems at a later mass he was targeted to vc, he immediately switched to jungle fatigues. The next photograph depicts a couple of publications that did use the photo. My grandfather, who lived in maryland, happened to see the photo on the front page of the washington sunday star, on 10 april 1966. Of course, the photograph was taken back in january. It was used on easter sunday. Rarely did any commercial publication give us a credit line. They happened to give me one. Very rare. The next photograph was taken 8 january 1967, during operation cedar falls. I was with c company, first battalion, fifth mechanized infantry, aka bobcats on the 25th Infantry Division. The company was being used as a maneuver force to chase charlie into a trap. Soldiers were dismounted and primarily chasing the vc on front. It was an extremely hot and dirty day. Towards the end of the day while on a break, this exhausted soldier and i climbed into the back of an m 113 armored personnel carrier to rest. I love the way the sunlight came through the combat hatch and i quietly took a shot of him while he was sleeping. The next photo was taken 6 october 1967, at a vietnamese refugee village near camp bernard. The 344th attachment a fifth special forces group sent a medical civic action program, otherwise known as med camp to the village to conduct a sick call. I noticed many of the village children had overtaken one of their jeeps, and laughingly took the shot. The next photo was taken on 10 november 1967, in the village, i hope i pronounce this right, as a goodwill gesture, members of the Headquarters Company second brigade, First Infantry Division, provided lunch and several sundry items to the villagers. Hear you see Staff Sergeant maple in a small vietnamese girl, laughing at some of the events going on. I also believe there was a helicopter coming in at the same time, i think that was why she was really smiling. The children in these pictures, in all of these pictures are now in their early 50s. I can only hope they all survived and are having god productive lives. Good productive lives. My final selected photo was taken on 21 november 1967. This was my last shoot in vietnam, needless to say, one of my favorite photos. In the lead is pfc fred greenlef with the 19th light inchs brigade known as the bread catchers. Behind greenleaf is the Motion Picture photographer dan bauer seen with a 16 millimeter film on his shoulder. This was taken during operation raindong near catlai. I never saw an actual print of this picture until two months after i returned to the civilian world. It was used as a cover of family weekly magazine, a sunday supplement, for many major newspapers. Didnt know it, never got a credit line. You can see what operation rangdong was like. However dan bauer and i were extremely lucky. While we were photographing the 199th, fellow cameraman Staff Sergeant abatamerl, Bert Peterson drew the short straw. They were with the 173rd airborne photographing the brutal assault on hill 875. My last bit of luck came in march of 1968, i was honorably discharged and went home. Fortunately, i missed the tet offensive. I own a large debt of gratitude to all the senior photographers and officers who mentored me along the way and had my back. I was an amateur among professionals. All the cameramen, also owe a debt of gratitude to the combat armed soldiers who protected and helped sustain us while we were with them in the field. I will now turn it over to carl hanson who replaced me when i left. [ applause ] thank you, bob. That 19yearold up there is from an eastern montana farm community, where he learned to dock sheep, castrate calves, summer fallow, dry field, and stack barreled hay. He was also one of 208 young men who went to vietnam to photograph the vietnam war for daspo. Many went on to prestigious careers in the military, and as civilians. Ones i am aware of became hollywood cameraman, a National Geographic photographer, International News reporter, for cnn, International Corporate advertising producer, new York Advertising executive. Then myself. I made moves through photography up the ladder, finally spending 25 years as a neighbor here at the Natural History, as a Natural History photographer at the smithsonian institution. But my career began as an 18yearold, high school graduate, at that small montana, eastern montana town. I enlisted in the army with a promise of a 14week schooling in cinematography at Fort Monmouth new jersey. Because i graduated at the top of my class, in cinematography, not high school, i got a prestigious assignment to the unit in hawaii. Whoopee. Son, surf, girls sun, surf, girls, im 18 years at a unit known as daspo. Once there i learned i was going to spend a good part of my next two and a half years in vietnam. Once in vietnam, we would be sent out to a base camp anywhere in the country. From the dmz in the north, to the rice patties and canals in the very south. Wherever our team had an officer in charge, had units engaged with the enemy. The camera you see on my neck, i was trained as a cinematographer, i crosstrained as a still photographer and that is a roly twin lens 120 mim camera. Thats what we used. It is a very difficult camera to use, even anywhere, but in combat, it is very difficult. And you get 12 exposures to a roll of film and have to change film, it is paperbacked film. Thats a prism head that is on it. If you wanted to take a picture, you either had to stand up, way up high, out of the, expose yourself, or turn the camera upside down maybe and take a picture. A very difficult camera to use. The equipment i have in the tripod case and the other case is the, my Motion Picture photographer buddys equipment that he would take. We almost always traveled as a twoman team. A still photographer and a cinematographer. Once at the base, we would find a platoon or a company that was headed into indian country. And as, and asked to accompany them. We would stay with that unit until we ran out of film, or they returned to base camp. Not all, not all of our, go ahead, not all of our assignments involved combat. Heres an exposure from, shot from the beginning of tet. We were in chulai, and the base we were at came under attack at night. The rockets started, this is a rocket attack, thats my cinematographer buddy chuck abbott. We were in a tent, and the first rockets started to come in, we took off running, to a bunker at the other end of the tent, and by the time we got to the far end of the tent, that rocket landed at the end of the tent right where by my bunk was at it and exploded. I was thrown to the ground, hurt my shoulder, chuck was wounded by shrapnel, and wrist. On the right, you can see the normal results of a 122 millimeter soviet rocket. The next day, when the eod people came to remove the remains of that rocket, they explained to us that the vc, when they were carrying those down the ho chi minh trail, they would take out explosives to make it lighter so they didnt have to carry as much weight, and that is what saved our lives. Otherwise, we would have been, not two dead soldiers. Not all of our experiences were combat. This happens to be operation macarthur. One of my combat missions, i was on, but my toughest assignment i ever had in vietnam was a Training Field on the operation of the military mortuary, during the time of war. I was a still photographer on that project. But i participated in all aspects of the production. The lighting and such. This was filmed in the saigon mortuary known as graves registration. In 1969, when an average of 320 bodies a week went through the mortuary. They were identified and prepared for the return to the United States, after they were retrieved from the batted field. I worked on this project for nearly two weeks, the cinematographer i worked with, worked on it many more weeks. I have never seen the photographs i took, nor his film, nor do i ever want to. One combat mission i remember very well went bad, from bad to worse. It was with a company of mostly new incountry soldiers on their first combat mission. They were sent as a blocking force to the battle of docto. As i remember, the first day we were in line through a very thick jungle along a narrow ridge, i was hanging back about 50 yards from the point man on that, in the patrol, and when the point man saw something in the jungle, and opened fire, several others opened fire at the same time, soon after they opened fire, i heard an explosion, so one of troopers behind the point man fired an m79 grenade launcher in the direction that they were shooting. And then a grenade, fired from a dependlauncher and it must make seven revolutions before it is activated and can explode. This one did not do a goods job, or did not understand that, or whatever, it went out, it hit a tree and bounced back amongst the men again, and went off and killed two more men. The patrol retreated to a wider spot in the ridge, and cleared, to clear a landing zone so they could get a medevac helicopter in. They were using detonation cord, that we called a det cord, which is an explosive fuse, and they would wrap it around the trunks of the trees, and they were blowing, to blow the trees down, so the helicopters could come in. This is very thick jungle. While they were doing that, one of the trees was blown down, fell on another soldier and killed him. After the medevac successfully came in and evacuated the dead and injured, we were ordered to dig fox holes at the site that night. My partner and i didnt have entrenching tools so we tried to scrape indentations in the ground using my knife. After a futile effort, it was very hard ground, we were exhausted and only had a few inches of indentation in the ground, and decided to lay there, and cover ourselves with our poncho liners and try to go to sleep. But we couldnt sleep, because there was an air force operation going down a few miles down the ridge from us, and an arc light operation which is when flights of b52 bombers are dropping their loads of 500pound bombs. It was an incredible sound display. Even though it was out of sight. Then there was silence. For a few minutes only. Before one very loud explosion. One 500pound bomb had gotten hung up in the bombay of a b52 and when they shook it loose, it landed on our perimeter, killing two more of our soldiers. The next morning, the dead were helicoptered out and then we hunt into the area where the b52s had arklighted. It was amazing to me to see how much Destructive Force can be absorbed by the jungle, these are 500pound bomb, and the jungle just eliminated, you could not really see very much damage. My teammate and i exited the Operation Zone, the Operation Zone when the resupply helicopter was brought in. In daspo, we seldom knew what happened to our film once it was sent to the pentagon for processing. Though we would occasionally get critique contact print ors sheets to review. Then for years after, and i mean decades, even, we would be shocked when we would stumble upon one of our images in print in National News magazines, and newspapers and books and in my case two books on vietnam. And i stumbled upon one of my photos in National Museums three times with exhibits related to the vietnam war. We never got credit. Except in one, in my case, in one, we never got credit, except once, in my case. When my wife and i first moved to washington, d. C. , we were invited to dinner at the home of a friend i hadnt seen in over 30 years, since we had graduated from high school. We no sooner got seated in their living room when one of her grade school aged daughters got all excited and asked her mom if she could show me now, and her mom said yes, so the young girl ran to her bedroom, and returned with her School History book, opened to a page about the vietnam war. And there was a black and white picture i had taken nearly 30 years earlier, and surprisingly, it had a photo credit. Photo by pfc carl hanson. I cant tell you how proud it made me feel to see the pleasure in this young girl, the pleasure this young girl took, in knowing that the combat photographer was a friend of her family. So with that, ill turn this over to my friend. You want to do the last one . Yes, and this is the last couple of pictures. And now i will turn it over to my friend ted acheson, who was a cinematographer [ applause ] my name is ted acheson, i was born in flint, michigan, and was in college in wisconsin, and i was a junior in 1966, and uncle sam kept changing me from 2a, 2s to 1a. 1a was draft, being able to get drafted. So i was drafted. And i finished off my first semester of my junior year, and i was brought in, and asked me if i wanted to take another year and go to school, which sounded pretty good to me, so i did that. And the school that i was able to get was Motion Picture Photography School and all of us went to the same school but different avenues. So january of 1967, i went in for basic training, and went to hawaii, just like these guys, thinking wow, this is great. So after the army, i served from 1967, to the end of 1969. After the army, i went back to school, finished my undergrad, went to grad school, and then i had a 40year career producing and directing National Television commercials for the auto industry. Between 1962 and 1974, we served in a unique unit. And before i go any further, i would just like to clear something up about a villa, you saw pictures of that earlier, in 2000, we had a daspo reunion in saigon and we found the villa, after searching for half a day, they changed all the street names, to vietnamese names, after the war, in 1975. So we had quite a time finding it. And my wife was with me. And this was in the year 2000. I took her to the villa. And she had always heard about, her whole life about this villa, and so i showed her the villa, and she says thats a villa . There was no topiariys, there was no waterfalls, but to us, it was a palace. Why daspo was so successful, it had been created and organized as bill talked about to work outside the patrol of u. S. Army command, and host countries we operated in. We were designed to work only for the department of defense and the pentagon. We didnt take grip and grin photography. We had passports that were, that allowed us in and out of countries, and we also had i. D. Cards that we could just about take any flight we wanted to, first priority, in vietnam. Each with all of the support, even with all of the support, it didnt help when we needed to speak to a general officer. The first sergeant, or a command Sergeant Major was a hell of a fire law for them, we usually succeeded in meeting the general that we came to speak with. The retired colonel asked me one day, how did an e4, e5 handle this . I said it was part bravado and part naivete. We would go in and meet a general and first thing i would do is salute and shake his hands and he was happier than hell that we were there to show how great his unit was. So he would ask the Sergeant Major to, anything they want. So that was really extremely helpful. The officer in charge set our, talked to the contact host, tell him we were planning on coming up here. But we worked between two worlds of the grunts that were, wsweatd in the bush and the higher echelon clerks who worked in the offices. And much of what daspo has accomplished has become part of the visual history of vietnam. That prior picture of mine was me in a place called caisson, and that was a pretty modern camera that i was carrying. Compared to this, which is like a tank, and i mean you hit a vc with this and man, he would be in bad shape. You could wind it, and it would shoot, what, 33 seconds or Something Like that. And you had to wind it again, stop and wind it. So that was, you know, it took about three minutes of film, or Something Like that. Unlike civilian photographers and reporters who made a reputation for themselves and furthered their careers by covering combat, military photographers were just merely doing our job. On may 6, 1968, i was with the 101st airborne, second of the 17th, and they were on an operation, and they were told they were going into clear out a village of phon machuh and there were some strag ling vc in it and they needed to have it cleared. Unfortunately, we ran into two regiments of nda, and there was a spec four paterson who was with us and spec four paterson ended up receiving the medal of honor. We killed 55 nda in the first five minutes. We fought from about 4 30 until 2 00 a. M. In the morning. I had a 16 millimeter air flex that was battery powered. We were trained to at least get a shot that was ten to 12 seconds in length. You had to stand up and get that shot. And you were exposing yourself. And then you had to get another shot like that. And another shot to. Build a sequence. And another. And another. But you were exposing your body and not moving, it is an eternity under fire. It is amazing to me, under the most arduous of conditions, we were all in, that you would still frame the scene, and were worried about composition, but it was instinctive. We did it. We were able to pick the correct focal length. And we imagined how the shot was going to be for the next scene, all at the same time. Even under combat conditions, we were all doing this instinctively. You want me to run the clip. Wait just a moment. When you were trying to change your film, you know, you had, youre in combat, 100 foot roll, you had to put another one in the camera, and when you were putting that in the camera, you had sweat coming out of you like you couldnt believe, your eyes are, you know, sweat is running in your eyes, trying to effectively get the film in. And that was really very, very difficult to do under those conditions. I think you ought to run the film. It will show you what i ran into that day. And patterson appears in this film. Yes, patterson who referred the medal of honor. Who received the medal of honor. Riding through the storm. Riders in the storm theres a killer on the road. There is sergeant patterson. And here is his paperwork for the medal of honor that had to be submitted. His platoon sergeant was wounded. I have photos of him. And i had captions. After 43 years, i tracked down the platoon sergeant, and i had a picture of him standing next to a tree, where he was wounded in the stomach. And i actually located the guy, and he lived 45 minutes from me, and we didnt know that. So i found most of his members, that was with us that day, and we still, we still get together. And i got wounded about a half hour after that. And at nighttime, we couldnt film, and like i said, we were fighting until 2 00 a. M. In the morning. And i picked up a weapon that night, and used it. Dick, why dont you tell them a little bit about your experience. [ applause ] like 1. 8 million men in our generation, i got drafted. I was 23. Can we go to the next picture. Yes, go ahead. There it is. Sorry, i didnt realize i had to do that. 1. 8 million men in our generation, i got drafted. I was 23. I had just seen my first pictures published in National Geographic magazine. My dream was to be a photojournalist. So after basic training, when the orders came in, assigning me to daspo, i was thrilled. I was going to be a photojournalist. Well, as youve seen, the daspo assignments took us all over vietnam. To photograph virtually every aspect of the war. From the dmz in the north, to the maycong delta in the south. One of my most memorable assignments occurred in august of 1967, i through into the heart of the maycong delta to photograph the mobile marine force, a joint army navy unit comprised of the 9th Infantry Division and the navys heavy support boats. They were participating in a search and destroy mission, in the run special zone, a tie dal zone, 40 clicks southwest of saigon, known as the killer swamp. The killer swamp was a miserable place. Where the mud and the water made it incredibly difficult to move around and the brush hid not only the enemy, but the snakes. Between patrols in the swamp, we chugged up and down canals, constantly scanning the shore, looking for enemy soldiers who might be trying to blow us out of the water. On foot, and in the boats, we felt like sitting ducks. And thats an awful, awful feeling. I was with these guys for three days. And i was rattled. Those guys did it for a year. Imagine what that did to their minds. On a hot afternoon in march of 1968, 35 miles northwest of saigon, i photographed infantrymen, m60 tanks, and apcs from the 25th Infantry Division who were trying to clear deeply entrenched vietcong units from one of the base camps. I couldnt believe how loud it was. The roar of the tank engines. The boom of the big guns. The rattattat of the machine guns. It was disorienting as they zigged and zagged through the debris, darting from tree to tree, taking cover where i could find it. I was so focused on photographing, i didnt even think about the danger. Until the guy to my left got hit. That afternoon, it was one k. I. A. And one wounded. Our buddies were there for the wounded, and that made all of the difference, that day as it does every day in combat but i recently learned there could have been two k. I. A. That day. Not long ago, a vet who was also there that that day, a guy named robert sadarko contacted me after seeing a picture from this firefight that i had posted on erics vote nam war history Facebook Page and told a chilling story. At one point during the fighting all of the units had been ordered to pull back it bring in an air strike. Since i was on foot, and operating as we did, alone, basically, i had no idea that an air strike was headed our way. And then suddenly, i was startled by an apc that came roaring up behind me. One of the guys yelled at me, for christ sake, get in here, get in here now. One of the men in the apc had spotted me. And said to the driver, hey, that nut case, you know, that photographer, hes out there, we got to go get him. Well, if that guy had not seen me, and if the driver had not turned back, who knows what would have happened. On another assignment, to photograph the first air cab Recon Mission up north, i encountered another facet of the fighting we faced in vietnam. The mission was to locate a large force of enemy troops that the intelligence guys thought was moving through the area. We started on a ridge, but soon plunged into elephant grass so thick you couldnt see more than three feet in any direction. I got to tell you something. Thats spooky. Finally, we got on the valley floor and still didnt see the enemy. It sure felt like they were nearby. The tension never let up. And what made those patrols so difficult was not knowing who was a friend and who was a foe. I mean ordinary life seemed to be going on, kids tending water buffalo, women watering the fields. But the men, what about the men . Were they farmers . Or were they fighters . Or were they both . We just didnt know. And in spite of intention interrogations, they never talked. It was only on the chopper flying out of the valley that i figured out that the vietnamese were caught in an impossible bind. Anything they said could bring retribution down on their family members, or friends. But their silence put us in a hell of a bind, too. As one of the rifleman said, dick, there is no more hellish dilemma that we face out here than taking aim at somebody and not knowing if theyre a friend or a foe. Do you pull the trigger . Or not . And what if youre wrong . How do you live with that . For most of my tour in vietnam, i felt the majority of the south vietnamese welcomed our help. But on the 30th of january, 1968, the vc and the nva forces launched simultaneous surprise attacks on major cities throughout the country, including saigon. Yes, tet offensive was under way. What i learned, when i learned that the enemy had been able to get as many as a thousand men into some of those cities without our knowing it, i realized that we had not won the hearts and minds of the people. And if the people were not with us, no matter how many enemy bases we destroyed, no matter how many enemy soldiers we killed, the light at the end of the tunnel was never going to get any closer. We came to vietnam with the best of intentions, and we put everything we had into the fighting, but it was now clear that we were not making life better for the people we were trying to help. Women and children were getting caught in the crossfire. Their homes and their lives were being destroyed. I know this is really hard stuff to look at, and to listen to, but if we are to appreciate what the men and women who are out there fighting for us today are doing for us, we have to understand what combat is doing to them. They put their lives on the line. They stare terror down. They stare terror down. And they lose buddies in battles. And then they come home. Where they have to square what they had to do as warriors to stay alive with what theyre now expected to do to be alive, as they try and reach out and connect with family members and friends. Let me tell you something, thats not so easy. Ptsd can be a bear. Its been 50 years since i returned from vietnam. But the war is still with me. Appearing like a ghost. Its been 50 years since i returned from vietnam. But the war is still with me, appearing like a ghost. In pictures i capture every day with my phone. When i look at the handle on the lid to a street sewer, and feel like im peering deep into my psyche. When i see a face in a swirl of walnut grain and recall the guilt i felt when i pushed civilian values aside. When i see a wool hat in the street, with an earphone plug curling out unplugged, i recall the isolation from being away from family and friends. And when i look at the fountains that reminds me of the armies of men who through the centuries marched off to war into the terrifying darkness of combat. I think one of the best ways that we can honor our vets from past wars, i think one of the best ways we can all honor our vets from past wars and the soldiers who are fighting for us today, and that is to treat every day as veterans day. And to take a couple of minutes each day, to appreciate what theyre doing for us, and to try and understand what they are going through, what it is doing to them, and what we can do to support them. And what i hope you never forget is that once war gets in here, and gets in here, it never leaves. Id like it thank you for all of us, for this opportunity, for us to share our stories with you. [ applause ] we would like to honor two of our guests, brothers who didnt make it home, killed in action. Kermit yoho, and rick ryan, and always gentleman, it goes for the one or the other for these fellows, and we miss them very much. I would also like to thank david, lee reynolds, David Reddick and in keeping with our thing about getting credits, we want to thank joe williams, the photographer, for taking some photographs. Thank you. All right. Well, thank you, gentlemen. And we will go ahead and do the questions and answers. I have two cards. If you have any that you filled out, with the questions, please pass h them to the sides and thald pass them up. The first question i have, how did you protect your film in combat, against, from combat and the elements in combat . And did you ever run out of film or lost it . When we finished filming, we packaged up all of our film, we made sure that we didnt lose it, we had it in our pockets, that picture of me, i had film in my, all over, and you know, in a backpack as well. But we would carefully tape the film cans, and get them back, when we went back to the villa, the first thing we did was type out our captions, and get the film on an airplane, back to the states, so it could get processed. You really had to be careful with the other shot of me was i was all full of dust, and you just had to be really careful when you were changing your magazines, you put your hands into a magazine bag, change it, that saved it from getting any dust in it. We werent out that long. I mean we were, we still had plastic bags back then, we could tie them, and hopefully not get sunk in the river but it protected the film. The last couple of days, weve been going through the archives, possessions of our film, that we havent seen, 50 years, and i was noticing in my Motion Picture film that a lot of it was heat damaged. Or some of it. And i shouldnt say a lot of it. But you could see from roll to roll, that there wasnt the processing, there was some damage to the film. From heat. And or humidity, i dont know which. But our film did get damaged by the environment. We carried it in heat, and through the rain, and the humidity, and we did the best we could to protect it. It was wrapped in metal canisters, and tape around it, and in plastic bags when we could. But it did get damaged. Yes, i would say, just to follow up on that, im just curious, how did you make sure, like the right roll of film had the right caption type . Was there ever a risk that you would get separated, when you sent it back . Still . Still or film. They were numbered. They were numbered. We had 12 shots per roll, with a 120, and the opening shot we would usually have a slate, and we would shoot the slate, and then we have like little, little green memorandum notebooks we would carry and you would write on there roll one, photograph, one, two, three, four, five, six, doing it that way and then it would get married up with that roll of film when it went up for processing. Did any of you keep those notebooks . Yes. No. We will move on to the next question. What was done with sensitive photos . So if, you know, if theres a something that maybe the military didnt want to get out, what did you do with those kinds of photos . And were you ever directed by any units you were operating with not to take pictures anywhere . Well, i can address the classified question. When the rolls came back, no one in vietnam was censoring or whatever, because the rolls go back to get processed. Either redstone or pic center, long island city, new york, and it was at that point, not so much at redstone but at the perform ic center, where you might see some classification going, or actually, probably coming out of the pentagon and the fifth floor, where if something was too sensitive, it would get classified. And the other part of that story is, i was doing a job with a, what was the group that had the tanks . The first and the 69th . The 59th. Yes, i believe that was the unit that general pattons son was commanding. The 11th armoy calvary. Yes. And when i got there, and i discussed what i was going to firm, he was not happy about it, because he wanted to prove that they were great tanks. Well, congress and the pentagon didnt feel that they were living up to what they wanted them to do. They couldnt climb over burms. The radiators sucked in all of the foliage. The tanks would stall. Things like that. And he sent an officer out with me to make sure what i was doing was what, you know, he wasnt happy. So i took a resupply out of there, and the guy that he sent me didnt even know i left. And one other, when we were discussing today, the two cameramen that were with the colonel moore, with colonel moore, and the tracheotomy story, and what was he, actually you tell the story better than i do. Go ahead. Well, one man was wounded in the throat, and there was the chief surgeon in the division happened to be alone, and he did a battlefield tracheotomy. Cut the guys throat, stuck a straw or something in there and the cameraman filmed it. When they got back, or got back to the villa, and the film was processed, and like a week later, all hell broke loose at the pentagon. You know, this is the kind of stuff we dont want you filming. You know theres no blood. In america, tv might see this. This might get out. Well, after a few physicians saw that footage, it was hooray, because now, they could show other medics, doctors, how to do this type of thing. In the field. And these guys then were treated like kings after that. We have a couple of questions, of asking about the ratio of black and white photos to color photos, and who would decide whether you should shoot in black and white or color . Ill answer that. We were shooting color negative film so it could be printed color or black and white. And then who would decide whether to print it in color or black and white . I wouldnt know that. The pentagon, yeah. Why would you want why wouldnt they want it all in color . Oh, i think there are situations where the black and white is infinitely more powerful than color. And there are situations, and more dramatic. And situations where the color is more effective. And a newspaper that didnt have color capacity, they had black and white basically back then. And then a followup question to that. Why six by six, versus 35 millimeter . I think they wanted the larger image. And you know, when we first started, when i was there, we were shooting with a roly, and i did not have a pen impression, which means everything was going the other way, you were shooting like this, the worlds worst combat camera that you could have. You got to stand up. But it did give a better, you know, it was a bigger piece of film, so it was a better, a lot more higher resolution. And then a question about the relationship between daspo and civilian journalists, and even other Public Affairs officers, what was your relationship with the civilians, and knowing that you were going some places that maybe they couldnt, did they ever ask you to take pictures of certain things . I can address the, a cameraman i had when i was in the 221st for six months, thank god i got out of there, and then i went to daspo, but during that time, i had a cameraman there named k, with cbs, prior to coming into the service, and he was, at the hotel in saigon, and i saw him periodically, if i got into daspo and bill plant from cbs was a correspondent and good friend of mine, so i would see him downtown once in a while at the caravelle, and keith always said, you know, you guys really get to go anywhere you want, and it really ticks us off, that you can go and get that done. And then later on, the war came along, in iraq and afghanistan, and keith was still active, and all the journalists wanted to be imbedded. And keith warned them, he said you dont want to be imbedded. Because once you are, they control you, 100 , and you cant go anywhere but be with them, and you can only shoot what they want, and just be careful. Well, what happened . They all got imbedded. And then they all complained. We have no freedom. Well, interesting question here, what is the most spectacular scenery you encountered while on tour as a photographer in vietnam . Beaches. I would say beaches on the east coast. Flying into caisson, flew into there, general abrams kicked the other pilot out, and he controlled the aircraft. But we were going down this river, that is one of the most spectacular things i saw. I mean it looked like shangrila, right near caisson, you have to pull up the chopper, and go in, but right where it was, it was a huge water fall, and it was spectacular to see that in the jungle. And then a quarter of a mile away, it was a moon scape. What was the comment we used to make . This would be a great country to visit if there wasnt a war going on. I thought the highlands were beautiful. The central uplands up in the anlo valley, i was up there quite a bit with the mountain side, and everything up there, its photographic, scenic wise, it was a photographers wonder up there. I thought it was a beautiful country up in there. Until rainy season hit you. Mentioned some of the equipment you had and some of the challenges that you you had with it, did you ever supplement the equipment that you were issued with any of your own . With any of your own . Of your own equipment. Did you bring anything of your own out there . Yes, i had bought a blue 16 millimeter camera, off of the bbc, and it had a battery on it. And it also had a nice zoom lens on it. And i would not take this out, nobody knew, and i would use my blue, and i mean i could run it for the full three minutes, and then change it. Less weight . Less weight than this. It was a great camera. But i probably, if someone probably seen me in the hierarchy of our unit, they would have been probably a little upset. Not me, ted. No. As soldiers going out to the front lines, being in these combat areas, were there every times, well, first of all, what weapons did you carry and were there ever times where you just have to put down your camera, i think one of you mentioned that earlier, and talk about some of these times where you have to become just the rifle . I carried, well i guess you could call it carry a weapon, i dont know if you would or not, i had a. 45, very rarely clean it, if i had to shoot it, i would probably be better off throwing it to a vc. To me, it was extra weight. And i always felt like, you know, if we got into a situation, you know, where i had to protect myself, if it was that bad of a situation, i was pretty sure there would be a weapon laying around somewhere that i could pick up. So. 45 to me was just extra weight. Really didnt want to carry it. It was just i stopped carrying my. 45. We were all issued a. 45 caliber pistol and i carried mine all the time. There was only once that i pulled it and that was because when we were in the field with these units, we were not part of the actual group of combat soldiers, we were there by ourselves, and the two of us and if we got separated, we were there by ourselves. They didnt really worry about us. We werent part of their team. We were a photographic team. And we were going through one village, and vc were popping out of spider holes and taking pot shots at us, and the team, the patrol was going through the village and got spread out and i had to change film, and i went down, and i changed film, it takes maybe three minutes, and i got up, and i couldnt see another american soldier anywhere. And all of a sudden, i realized im totally by myself. I dont see anybody. And i got scared. And i pulled my aunt 45 out and i started looking for somebody else, waiting for somebody to pop out of a spider hole. But thats the only time i ever pulled a weapon. The one time i was with the marines, and we went in, i just happened to go, well, civil action patrol camp had been overrun, and everybody killed except one soldier taken prisoner and we were going out to check it out, and the marines would not let me go out there, except unless i had a flack jacket on, a helmet and an m16 and my. 45. They want even let me get on their truck to head out there. I remember one time i pulled may. 45, i was with the first air cad and we were doing a search, not a destroy, before that became popular, to make a bad statement, but it was a Search Mission and we surrounded this village at 4 00 in the morning or whatever it was and anyway, we did our thing and searched the village, and we were taking a break, i dont know, it was like 9 00 in the morning, or something, was up of course, and there was a brama bull sitting over under a tree, and he had about three or four other cattle with the herd, and for some reason, he didnt like me and he looked at me and he looked at me, and he started charging me. And we had rice patys all around the place and i said, why is he coming after me and here he comes. The other guys stayed. And i pulled my. 45. Now im running and i got this thing behind me. Because im going to put that baby down. Hopefully. And then he just stopped. And so then he went back. And he looked at me ten minutes later, and he is minutes later, said i dont like that guy. Only time i pulled my. 45. One final question for the evening. You mentioned there was a reunion in 2000 vietnam. Did all of you go back and see vietnam again, or for any of you have who have returned to vietnam since the war, what are your impressions . I think am i the only one that went back . I think so. Ive been back twice, once with the reunion and again i was looking at doing production work over there and i was trying to see who was available and how much it was. So, when i first went back, it wasnt the place that i was at in 1968 and 1969. I couldnt relate to the place. It was like going to laos or going to thailand. It was economy in the south was starting to take off. The people were extremely kind to us. Only about a third of the people that were alive in 2000 even had any memory of the war or was alive at that time. So, they didnt people at vietnam didnt see us as the invaders any longer. They saw us as business partners. And it was it was really a good thing for a couple of our guys because they really had some ptsd problems. And seeing it was now a community of people that wanted us there with open arms, and i never saw any animosity towards an american there. Thank you very much. And that really concludes our event this evening. Ladies and gentlemen, can we get a round of applause for our veterans this evening . [ applause ] on behalf of the u. S. Army center military history, i want to thank our cosponsors, mr. R mr. Ferriero. Please visit our website at history. Army. Mil. Please join us in the lobby. The veterans will be available to speak to and dr. Villard will be there to sign copies of his book and we have copies for sale. Thank you very much and have a great evening. [ applause ] if you like American History tv, keep up with us during the week on facebook, twitter, and youtube. Learn about what happened this day in history, and see preview clips of up coming programs. Follow us at cspan history. The house will be in order. For 40 years, cspan has been providing america unfiltering coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and Public Policy events from washington, d. C. And around the country. So you can make up your own mind. Created by cable in 1979, cspan is brought to you by your local cable or satellite provider. Cspan, your unfiltered view of government. Sunday, at noon eastern, in depth is live with thauthor thomas sawoll. From time to time people complain that George Jefferson and George Washington condoned slavery. Slavery was there for centuries before they were born. Lincoln was able to do something about it because he did so not simply as president but as the commander in chief in a war. And what he did applied only to people who were in rebellion against the United States. But there was no basis otherwise. Mr. Sowell has written many books includes discrimination and disparities. Watch in depth live with Thomas Sowell from noon to 2 00 p. M. On cspan 2. Next, john mcmanus talks about his book the dead and those about to die. It tells the story of the First Infantry Division and how they were the first combat soldiers to storm the normandy beaches on june 6th, 1944. The Eisenhower Institute at getties berg college and the Dwight D Eisenhower society cohosted this. Dr. Mcmanus is the first ever in humanities to be named curators disti