The investigative reporting workshop is an awardwinning Nonprofit Organization that develops more than 200 new stories copublished with at least 200 media partners, especially the pbs program frontline the Washington Post and the au. U. Wamu. The mission of the black Alumni Alliance is to create a lifelong and Worldwide Community among more than 6600 au alumni who identify with the black in African Heritage committees through increased opportunities for meaningful engagement through the goal of meaningful awareness, pride, participation, involvement and philanthropic commitment to American University. Were thrilled to have a number of Alliance Members here tonight, including the president Gordon Andrews. Im sure gordon will make some brief remarks closing out our program a bit later. It is our distinct honor and pleasure and privilege to welcome courageous, tenacious investigative journalist Jerry Mitchell to our campus tonight. Special thanks to Sherri Williams who will interview him after his presentation. Jerry mitchell has investigated some of the most heinous civil rights crimes in u. S. History. He was an Investigative Reporter at the clarion ledger newspaper for 30 years. His stories have helped put 4 Ku Klux Klans man in a suspected serial killer behind bars. His stories have also exposed injustices and corruption prompting investigations, reforms of state agencies and the firings of boards and officials. His stories have also helped lead to the release of two people from mississippis death row. A winner of a 500,000 macarthur genius grant and more than 30 other national awards, including being named a Pulitzer Prize finalist. He is finishing his memoir about his pursuit of civil rights cold cases. His book is entitled race against time for simon and schuster. He is cofounder and director of the Mississippi Center for investigative reporting. Sherri williams is assistant professor here at the American University school of communications. Dr. Williams has a masters degree and phd from the syracuse University School of public communications, and earlier, a degree in english with a concentration in journalism from Jackson State University in mississippi. Interestingly, she also worked for a few years at the clarion ledger newspaper in jackson, mississippi. As a professor and media researcher, work focuses on how marginalized groups are portrayed in the media. She is now leading a study that discovers how black millennials are affected by seeing images of Fatal Police Brutality against black people in social media. On social media. Without further ado, Jerry Mitchell will now talk and show some photos about his remarkable civil rights reporting these past three decades. After that, dr. Sherri williams will ask him about his important, courageous reporting, and then we will open it up to questions from the audience. You are on. [applause] jerry thank you so much. I appreciate it, chuck. Thank you, American University. Im looking forward to talking with you, dr. Sherri. It will be great. It is great to be with you all. Lets back this up. We are going to talk about a couple of cases that i have worked on. You may have heard about these cases in the news. One of them you may have heard about and one you may not have heard about. It involves medgar evers. Medgar evers was involved in fighting at normandy in world war ii, fighting the nazis and returned home to mississippi to find racism all over again in the form of jim fight racism all over again in the form of jim crow that barred africanamericans from restaurants, restrooms. Medgar evers sometimes people say the Civil Rights Movement in mississippi began with brown v. Board of education. That is a lie. It began far before that. Medgar evers was among those who was involved in those campaigns. He was involved in a campaign in the Mississippi County delta with bumper stickers that said dont buy gas or you can use the restroom. He came home from world war ii, and on his 21st birthday, went with a group of africanamerican soldiers, including his brother charles to try to go vote at the courthouse in decatur, mississippi, and were turned away by white men with guns. Medgar, in recalling that day, vowed that day that he would never be whipped again. He applied at the university of mississippi to attend law school. He was turned away. This is again before brown v. Board of education and before James Meredith ended up becoming the first known africanamerican student there. There actually was an africanamerican student before then, but he wasnt known, much to ole misss chagrin later on. He became field secretary for the naacp in mississippi. He roamed the state of mississippi, but about 40,000 about 40,000 miles a year on his oldsmobile. He went to naacp branches, got involved in voting rights, he was involved in the protests and sitins that took place in downtown jackson, including the organization with the students, that was mainly made up of two two glue students. One of them is with us tonight. [applause] joan is with us tonight. Mike is here who wrote a book about that. [applause] glad to have you all here. It is kind of that iconic photo, if you have ever seen it, the most violent response to a sit in in the United States during the early 1960s. Medgar, on the same night that president kennedy told the nation that the grandsons of slaves were still not free, medgar evers came home that night just after midnight and was shot in the back in his own driveway. His wife, children heard the shot, ran outside and saw his blood and screamed. He was pronounced dead within an hour. 26 years later, im standing with his assassin. This is a picture outside the shooters home in tennessee. I came because i was obsessed. I dont know if you are like me, but if someone tells me i cant have something, i want it a million times worse. There is something in mississippi called the mississippi Sovereignty Commission, which is a spy agency that existed from the 1950s until the 1970s. The mississippi legislature, at that point voted in the 1970s to seal all of those records for 50 years. Im talking about more than 132,000 pages of records that were sealed by mississippi lawmakers. And me, being a cynical and suspicious reporter thought, i bet there is something in there. [laughter] i began to develop sources that access the files, they began to leak me the files. What they showed was at the same time the state of mississippi was prosecuting byron for the killing of medgar, this other Sovereign Commission was secretly assisting byrons defense. Trying to get him acquitted and nobody knew that. My story ran october 1, 1989. The odds were literally more than one million to one against the case ever being reopened. The widow of medgar evers believed and prayed and some Amazing Things happened. A couple of months later, Jackson Police were cleaning out a closet and cleaned out a box that had photographs of the killing of medgar evers, including the fingerprint of byron from the murder weapon. A few months after that, myrlie evers showed me a copy of a Court Transcript she had saved in a safety deposit box. A few months after that, the prosecutor in the case found the murder weapon in his fatherinlaws closet. Which sounds like im making it up, i know, but it really did happen. As i mentioned, i went to go visit byron. He lived in tennessee. This was in april of 1990. I went to go visit him. I can honestly say he was the most racist person i ever spent serious time with. N word this, n word that. Then he started on other nonwhite races. He was very antisemitic as well. Believed that jews were satanic. By the end of the conversation, i felt like i needed a bath. It was one of those conversations. It was getting dark. I thought it was a good time to leave. And so he insisted on walking me out to the car. I am like, really . That is ok. I think i can find my way. Im just at the end of the driveway. Anyway, he walked me out to the car anyway. He gets me out to the car and blocks my way to the door and says, if you write positive things about white caucasian christians, god will bless you. If you write negative things, god will punish you. If god does not punish you directly, several individuals will do it for him. [laughter] his wife had made me a sandwich. [laughter] i think you can guess what i did with the sandwich. Byron was indicted in december of 1990. This is months later. He is indicted in the murder of medgar evers. Remember, this is all preinternet. Byron did not realize i was the one that wrote the story that got the case reopened when i went and visited him. He fought extradition. By this time, he had figured it out. He saw me across the courtroom and goes, see that man over there, when he dies, he is going to africa. [laughter] i turned to my friend and said, i have always wanted to go to africa. Not surprisingly, byron was convicted on february 5, 1994 in the exact same courtroom he had been tried in almost 30 years to the day. When the word guilty rang out, you could hear the waves of joy as they cascaded down the hall until it reached a foyer of people in black and white. They just erupted in cheers. I just felt chills because the impossible had suddenly become possible. Myrlie evers and her daughter cheered as well. Not too long after byron was indicted in 1990, i met with this lady. This is ellie dahmer, she is the widow of Vernon Dahmer. She is holding a photo of vernon. He was an naacp leader in mississippi, a friend of medgar evers. He had about 200 acres that they grew cotton and other crops with. He was very dedicated to voting rights. In fact, that is how he became a target of the klansmen back in 1966. The clan attacked him and his family in the middle of the night. Can you imagine being sleeping in the middle of the night and this is what it was like for vernon and his family, attacked at 2 00 in the morning. The clan firebombed their home, set their house on fire. The clan began firing their guns into the house. Vernon dahmer woke up, grabbed his shotgun and ran to the front of the house and began firing back at the klansmen so his family could escape safely out a back window. Unfortunately, the flames of the fire seared his lungs and he died later that day. A few weeks later in the mail came his Voter Registration card. He had fought his whole life for the right of all americans to be able to vote, but had never been able to cast a ballot himself. The guy who ordered the killing by the way, this is his son. He had four sons at the time in the military, and this is what they came home to. Vernon dahmer, six of his seven sons served a total of 78 years of service for this country. Isnt that amazing . Heartbreaking photo, taken by the way, by chris mcnair. I dont know if you know who that is, the father of denise mcnair, who is one of the four little girls who was killed in the Birmingham Church bombing. He took this photograph. The guy who ordered the bombing of Vernon Dahmer in his home was this guy, his name is sam bowers, responsible for at least 10 killings in mississippi that we know of. Bowers had been tried but never convicted in this case. After the Vernon Dahmer family met with me, they went and met with the District Attorney, who acted interested and then overtime got cold feet. He had an excuse. When that got taken care of, he had another excuse. When that got taken care of, he had another excuse. You get the picture. Another District Attorney came in and they were like starting over from square one. It looked like nothing was going to happen. I got a fellowship to ohio state to go get my masters. They were going to pay me and let me get my masters for free. I thought, that sounds like a good deal. Im literally in ohio in spring of 1997 and i get a telephone from this guy, who wouldnt identify himself or give me his name, but wanted to meet with me. I flew back to mississippi. I met with him. A buddy of his, two sons of Vernon Dahmer, we met in this motel room that reeks of chlorine. The pool was right outside. It turned out this guy had worked for sam bowers. He was the guy who kind of typed up the klan propaganda because i guess no one else in the clan knew how to type. He overheard sam bowers gave the give the orders to kill Vernon Dahmer. He told us that. After he met with us, we met with the District Attorney. The case got reopened. This was in 1997. The guy who had been the key witness in the 1960s was this guy, Billy Roy Pitts. He had been involved in the killing of vernon dhamer. Drop his gun and got caught, pled guilty to murder got a license for that, pled guilty to federal charges and got sentenced for that. I was researching how much time these guys actually served in prison in mississippi, because it was a bit of a joke. Governors pardoned some of these guys. Commuted their sentences. There were only a few convicted. The ones who were convicted didnt spend much time in prison. I was researching each one of those and it got to him. I couldnt find any record of his state time, but i was told he went into the federal Witness Protection Program. I was checking with the federal bureau of prisons to see how much federal time he did. Im talking to the archivist there and she called his file. I said how much did he actually served, and she said 3. 5 years. I said ok. I said, i understand that he left federal prison and went into the Witness Protection Program. She said that is impossible. She said there was no federal Witness Protection Program back then. Which meant, Billy Roy Pitts had never served a single day of his life sentence in mississippi. Kind of a big oversight, right . You dont hear about that one everyday. I didnt know pitts was alive, if he was dead, where he was. I got on the internet. Most of the internet sites i knew, you have to have a city and state. I didnt know that. I just kind of typed there was one site i knew where you didnt have to know that. I just typed up his name and up it popped, his address and telephone number. So i called him. The first 20 minutes of the conversation went like this. How did you find me . Im like, its on the internet. I have an unlisted telephone number. I said, i guess you have to take it up with them. As a result of my story that he had never served a single day of his life sentence, mississippi authorities issued a warrant for his arrest. He didnt like that. In fact, he ran. While he was on the run he sent me this audio cassette and i played it and this is literally how it began. Jerry, i just thought i would let you know, you have ruined my life. But i promise, if i talk to anybody, i would talk to you. So here is this tape. On the tape, he proceeds to tell me all about his involvement in the klan violence and the murder. Shortly after this, he turns himself in to authorities. This now leads the arrest of sam bowers. This was in may 1998. Sam bowers, in addition to him, was arrested with his righthand guy. When the family brought deavours nix in, it was like the most pitiful sight you have ever seen. They wheeled him in, you see the tall green oxygen tank, the whole bit. They wheeled him up in front of the judge, and he is like, i cant take more than a couple of steps without needing oxygen, judge. The judge is like, i normally dont do this, but im going to let you out without bond. A dozen days later, this is like a reporters dream. This is where we caught him. [laughter] he got arrested. He loved me. Fastforward, sam bowers goes on trial and guess who is there to testify on his behalf, but mr. Golfer. Deavours nix is talking to his lawyer. I dont mean this as a cruel detail, but im going to tell you this anyway. His lawyer is this really good criminal defense lawyer back in the 1960s. By this point, the guy is in his 80s. That is great. But the reason for that little detail will be more apparent later. He is talking and trying to work out a signaling system. I know all of yall are probably like me and watch the cop shows or csi. You know you can claim your fifth amendment right at any time. Even if you are on the witness stand. They are just trying to work out a signaling system on this. He is talking to his client and saying, deavours, when you get up there, you need to take the fifth. Im going to raise my hand. Deavours is like, ok. By the way, deavours is wearing the same golf cap, which just cracks me up. Deavours gets up and starts testifying. I look over at his lawyer about five minutes later, his lawyer was like zzzz. Deavours kept right on testifying. I was in the clan. He tried to put a positive spin on it, like there is one. Benevolent organization, passing out fruit baskets to the needy at christmas. Under crossexamination, the prosecutor got up and said, mr. Nix, just how many fruit baskets did you pass out . Deavours said, sad to say, none. [laughter] i swear it was the funniest trial i ever covered in my life as a reporter. Deadly serious matter, but funny trial. Sam bowers was representative of this guy on the right, travis buckley. He was not just a lawyer for the klan, he was a leader in the clan. He was actually indicted in the Vernon Dahmer firebombing at one point. Billy roy pitts testified about this planning meeting that took place prior to the attack on Vernon Dahmer and his family. Buckley asked him about it. He said mr. Pitts, who all was at that planning meeting . I was there, sam bowers was there, deavours you were there. Buckley is like, um. Objection, your honor . [laughter] i have covered a lot of trials in my life and that was the only time a witness had implicated the defense lawyer. Not surprisingly, sam bowers was convicted, august 21, 1998. The thing is, the hate that caused this, if we are really honest in this country, it has never really gone away. It wasnt just a few years ago that a young man walked into this church in charleston and killed these nine beautiful people. It wasnt that long ago either down in charlottesville, right . That we had happened what we had happened. Not that far from here, which is easy to think it doesnt happen around here. Myself, i have had my share of Death Threats and things like that. People said they have pictures of me and my family and knew where we lived and things like that. Sure, that is disconcerting. You never want to hear things like that. It led to an unexpected gift, and that is the gift of living fearlessly. Living fearlessly is not about living without fear. Its about living fearlessly is really about living beyond fear, isnt it . Its about living for something greater than ourselves, right . To date, there have been 24 convictions in these civil rights cases across the country. [applause] and, i am a person of faith, and i do believe that gods hand has been involved in these cases. But the most amazing thing i have witnessed actually has not been the convictions, which might surprise you. The most Amazing Things ive witnessed have been some of the racial reconciliation. Not too long after sam bowers was convicted, Billy Roy Pitts testified in a hearing. When he got done, he walked to the back of the courtroom and he ran into mrs. Dahmer. Billy roy pitts apologized to mrs. Dahmer and asked her to forgive him for killing her husband. She forgave him, and she began to cry. He began to cry. Is that really what its all about . Redemption . Trying to make things right even when they have gone so terribly wrong in the past . May god bless you in your journey of redemption. Thank you so much. [applause] this is my contact information, in case you want it. Every day on facebook and twitter i post today in civil rights history, or if you are so inclined, you can email me. Sherri hello. Jerry good to see a fellow alum. Sherri it is a regular clarion ledger reunion. I want to start off asking you a question about one of the biggest stories that you covered along the way, which was the release of the records for the Sovereignty Commission. You mentioned to the audience before and just to remind folks, it was a state agency that was set up specifically to spy on people working towards dismantling White Supremacy in the state of mississippi. You spent a lot of time focusing on the Sovereignty Commission. And how the state itself had a real serious role in maintaining oppression in mississippi. You also mentioned how there were judges, sheriffs and all sorts of people in different positions of power working to make sure that not only were people not punished, but also ensuring that they could continue to do this. Talk about how important it was to show how the state as a government body played a strong role in making sure that all of this could continue to happen, and also maybe for some of the reporters and students in here, talk about how it is important to still make those connections today in journalism. Jerry i think that was part of what i was trying to do. I kind of first got these leaks in segments, i didnt get them all at once in 1989. By the end of 1989, i loaded up my little honda hatchback with about 2400 pages of Sovereignty Commission records. I always called them the Sovereignty Commissions greatest hits. That is the kind of things they showed. They got people fired from their jobs, they would smear them, they would smear civil rights workers with the hope of driving them out of the state or rendering them ineffective and things like that. They spied on medgar evers in 1958 and were trying to catch him in an illegal act. Just because they wrote it down doesnt make it true. A lot of times they would go and harass someone. If you read the record, it would be like, we went and talked to so and so. No, they didnt just go and talk to so and so. The Sovereignty Commission had two arms. One was a propaganda arm. They would send white speakers who would willingly volunteer and send them up north, and then they would send black speakers. It was not public knowledge. They were being paid. They would go up north and say the same thing. We love segregation, we love jim crow and we want to keep it the way it is. Obviously, the records themselves reflected what was really going on. I think it is very important the other part, the Sovereignty Commission itself was all of the top leaders of State Government that were a part of the Sovereignty Commission, the lieutenant governor, the state treasurer, all of the major offices were a part of that Sovereignty Commission as well as others as well. They would share information. I will give a simple example. The Sovereignty Commission spied on mickey and his wife rita three months prior to the clan killing to the klan clearly killing them. He would think, they spied on them. Here is what happened. Date did these spy reports on what all they were doing and driving around in, their license tag number. Gave it to the Meridian Police department, which you dont necessarily think anything about that, except when i tell you this, more than half the Meridian Police department were in the kkk. In fact, one of the main shooters in the murder party of the three civil rights workers was alan wayne roberts, whose brother lee was on the marine Meridian Police department. You follow what i am saying. There was a very close connection between the Sovereignty Commission sherri almost no distinction. Jerry correct. Sherri i want to talk about the storytelling a little bit, and specifically sources. I know that you have a very strong relationship with myrlie evers that goes beyond just a reporter covering a trial. I think your work has been important because if anyone knows the history of the clarion ledger, when all this was happening, we talk about the state being complicit in allowing some of this brutality to exist, but the clarion, before it became the clarion ledger, was really a strong proponent of segregation. When you are doing the stories 20, 30 years later, it was probably the first time we heard the voices of the survivors of the civil rights people who were killed. Can you talk about how you were able to even develop those relationships when these people were alive and new years before, nd new years and new knew before, that this paper was ignoring everything that was happening, and even supporting it, but then later, you were coming to do the stories . How were you able to do that and develop those relationships . Jerry great question. I wish myrlie was here to answer that. I think she began to trust me over time. Initially, what is this white boy up to . Very much like you are talking about, the history of the clarion ledger and the jackson daily news i think one of the things we did that helped with that was part of what i got out of the Sovereignty Commission papers was information on our own newspaper. We did a paper on ourselves and we did a story on ourselves and exposed with the clarion newspaper was doing at the time. They were Getting Commission reports directly, and were publishing them verbatim sometimes. And or, they were killing stories are or running stories at the request of the Sovereignty Commission. Thought, we needed to do it. I wanted us to do an editorial and apologize. I didnt convince them on that point, but i still think it wouldve been the right thing to do. Sherri you talked about redemption a little bit earlier. It seems as if the state of mississippi and other Southern States are not only trying to express some redemption or at least come to grips with the horrible and violent legacy that they have in terms of civil rights by actually celebrating celebrating the history, by acknowledging it there is a series of national and state markers. There was the recent opening of the Mississippi Civil Rights Museum. Actually acknowledging what happened and tried to celebrate and amplify it in some way is something that we have seen happen in a lot of these Southern States. But part of the redemption and reconciliation is because there have been actual convictions. Jerry yes. Sherri because of the work you have done. Can you talk about what you feel about how your work fits into the legacy of the history of mississippi . Jerry i think what is important is before you have reconciliation, you have got to have truth. You have got to have truth. I think it has been part of the problem, that the truth hasnt been told. How many students learned about this in school. I think that is one of the reasons i do this on my Facebook Page and twitter page is because every day when i post these things, im kind of amazed by how many people, both black and white say, i never knew this. Its history, as i always put it, its not just black history, this is American History. Im amazed by how it is not being taught. The Civil Rights Movement often gets reduced to this, that was rosa parks sat down and Martin Luther king stood up. That is kind of the what happened the way gets taught. What gets left out is rosa parks wasnt actually the first one to refuse to give up her seat. There were four before her. Claudette was the first one and she was only 15 years old. Those four ladies, their work led to the historic lawsuit that resulted in the desegregation of city buses, but people dont know their names. To me, that is important, to not just know names of Martin Luther king as we should, but to know the names in the stories of so many others. The Mississippi Civil Rights Museum i feel like is excellent. Who all has been to the Civil Rights Museum in mississippi . Anybody . We actually have several. I think its excellent. Among the regional, i would say excellent, obviously, the one here in d. C. Is superb. Sherri you talked a little bit about earning the trust of your sources. I thought it was really interesting when you said that myrlie evers and others were wondering, what is this white dude trying to do. Why should i trust this dude . Who is he . One of the things that our students are thinking about here and we are having them think consciously about is their position in stories and their identities in the intersection of their identities and the power they possess, regardless of what those identities are, and how that can affect the storytelling and the ways that they can even approach people or do approach people. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your position as a white journalist, a white man journalist writing the stories and how that came into play while you are doing this work. Jerry on one hand, it might have been a detriment from a standpoint of relating to myrlie evers and others. On the other hand, it was maybe an asset from the perspective of , byron would not have talked to me if i had been a black journalist. I had that advantage. I am a southerner. They have the picture of a white wasp, that would be me. I qualify on those accounts. I think, use those to your advantage. What helped me was myrlie evers could see that i was honest and i was trying to tell the truth in all the stories i did. She trusted me and began to trust me pretty quickly once she started seeing the stories and saw what my quotes with her and our conversations. That is what happens, i think anyway. People who have been longtime you begin to have conversations beyond the story. You begin to find out about people and they begin to find out about you as people. Those of the connections we need to have before people begin to trust us. I mentioned truth has to come first and the other thing is, if justice is possible, we work toward that. That is when you can begin to have reconciliation. I dont think that can happen before then, until truth is told, until there are attempts at justice or some kind of ammends, then reconciliation can take place. Sherri i want to ask you one more question before we open it up. That is for students who are interested in doing this kind of work, not necessarily civil rights, but social justice and Racial Justice kind of journalism, what advice do you have for them because i think there are people that they are modeling their careers after. I know for me, i was a sophomore at jackson state in 1994 during the byron trial and seeing your work in the paper every day was really inspirational for me. Are there any ideas that you can, suggestions you can share the things they probably need to be doing, skills they need to sharpen or even journalists they should follow in books or series to read . Jerry wow. [laughter] i dont know if i can answer that all at once. I will try my best. For me, personally, it became bernstein. I read all the president s men. Someone gave me a piece of advice on how they use attribution. That became a primer for me. I think there are so many talented journalists. I know there is a website now investigating power, which i recommend. Go and look at those videos of some tremendously talented journalists. There are a lot of modernday ones like Nicole Hannah jones and people like that who do tremendous work. Follow the people you like and who you want to imitate. I think that is what you do. You read their work, you follow their work. They become your teachers and in that way. I think sometimes you feel like you have to be formally taught by anybody. You can read somebodys work and be taught by somebody. That is a good way to begin to work. Here is somebody i really like their writing. Why is it i like their writing and kind of study it. I think they can learn. The students can learn from all levels, from reading lots of peoples work, hopefully. Sherri lets open it up to the audience for questions. Thank you so much for coming here. You touched upon charlottesville. There was a frontpage story this weekend i dont recall if it was the Washington Post or the New York Times depicting highresolution pictures. Could you share insight as to how bad people like that can be so elusive in terms of being captured . Thank you. Jerry that is a great question. That is probably a question for Law Enforcement. I dont really understand. I am like you, im kind of baffled by this whole thing. I dont know. You would think that that would more easily solvable in those situations. The other part is, i dont understand in general sometimes by Law Enforcement doesnt take advantage of media along those lines. There is a power to be had. I think sometimes they dont take advantage. You used to see a lot more of that, where they would have photos or sketches in the prison easily and help us find this person, and the press would eagerly disseminate it. I dont know that i have an answer for it. Hi, i am star. Im a senior here. My question for you, especially being in the midst of these cases while they were happening and when they were new conversations, did you have anybody in your life who dropped it because of your deciding to who dropped you because of being an ally to these communities that it has the privilege that you have, and also, is there any advice that you could give to others on how to be a good ally . Jerry that is a great question. Yes, overtime, that happened. Once i have done the medgar evers case, that became a means by which people said you are the reporter that did such and such. It does help to know these other families. That is by the daimler family came to me was because of the evers case. The main thing with the families, regardless of skin color is for there to be trust that when you talk to them, you are quoting them accurately, you are representing their views accurately, all of those kinds of things. That, in my opinion is how you begin to build trust. They see you are not trying to burn them or misrepresent what they are saying or things like that. You can have you begin to have these longer conversations, and you begin to find out what all the family has been going through. This is the way i think of anything, with sources or whoever. You kind of begin to find out as much information as you can without necessarily intending to publish everything they tell you. Then you begin to work them onto the record. There may be something that has happened or information. I will give you an example. With the Vernon Dahmer family, it is kind of interesting. Vernon dahmers father was actually a white man and he lived his whole life as a black man. Very interesting, right . That was not something they told me the first time i showed up. That was the story they told me after years of beginning to trust me, but i thought was a fascinating story. Im only giving a part of that story but it is very fascinating. Vernon was the only one who stayed. The whole rest of the family moved, left mississippi. Some pass for white up north, which was a whole other kind of interesting saga as well. Those are the kinds of stories you find out over time, and why do you find that out . Because the family trust you and you begin to share information. You have all this information and then gradually say, is this something you would be comfortable talking about in a news story . You dont instantly jump and say, hey, im going to do a story on this. You begin to get them to trust you. Lets just take it aside from these families. Usually when you talk to a source, lets just say someone youre interviewing for an article. They dont want to talk on the record, they just want to talk off the record or on background. You get that information from them and then you go back through your quotes and he find the most innocuous quote they gave you. People want this information out or they would be talking to you. You pick the quote and you go, would you be willing to say that on the record . Can i would get you to say that on the record. And they go, ok. And then you go to the next quote. And then you go to the next quote. And then you go to the quote you really want to get them on the record on. Sometimes you can move them like that, whereas if you dont have anything, if they say, im not going to talk to you at all on the record, you say, ok, im not going to talk to you and just kind of move. Instead, it is better to get the information from them in and gradually try to move them onto the record. To me, that is a valuable way of doing that. You begin to find that information. You begin to develop that trust. They trust you enough that they want it and know that you will do a good job and they can trust you with it. Sherri i think we have time for one more question. I would like your perspective as somebody who has observed a lot of litigation for a long time on the future of prosecution as a remedy for civil rights and other social justice issues, particularly law students understand much of prosecution in civil rights in the late 20th century as mostly the domain of impact litigation, legal aid organizations and other things. In the past few years or so, there seems to be the state of the yard progressing towards things like elected offices municipal prosecutors, das, that sort of thing. Can you flesh it out as your understanding, what do you think the next 10 years of prosecution remedies is going to be like . Jerry i just want to make sure im understanding your question. With regard to what civil rights aspects a talking about . Like the cases i have been working on or are you talking or do you you mean civil litigation . I just want to make sure i am understanding. I would say the cases you are working on, that is good. Lets stay there. Jerry if you are talking about criminal prosecutions, think the window is almost closed. There may be another case out there that i dont know about. Heres why. The suspects are dead or the witnesses are dead. That is why im saying, you kind of have to move from truth to justice where possible. Where justice is it possible, is not possible, which is kind of what we are talking about in the situation, you have to move on from prosecution and there is no such thing as prosecution, so what do you do in that situation . I think then you have to move. What did south africa do in this situation . They set up truth and reconciliation. The idea behind that case was that, you come forward and tell the truth about what happened, and we are not going to prosecute. But you have to tell the truth in order to do that. I can envision Something Like that happening at some point i dont know under what auspices that would be, but i can foresee that with these particular kinds of cases because i dont see that many other prosecutions happening from this particular era. Later, there might be, but for the 60s, 50s and 60s im talking about. Sherri i think that is about time. I think do you mind one more question . I guess two. The women over here and the gentleman in the back. My question is, what do you do when you cant push the source to go on the record and it is something extraordinarily consequential. Second question is, five years go by, 10 years go by, 15 years go by . Is there an instance that cant that haunts you that was consequential and something you cant report. How did you personally handle it as a reporter and individual as well . Jerry to be honest, i havent had it happen. You are talking about some huge revelation that i could get could not get someone, i have had some revelations, but not anything that was so huge like a confession or Different Things like that that would tear you up. You would feel at some point an obligation as a citizen almost to report it. I havent had it. Ive been very fortunate. How are you . Jerry doing great. Great. In regards to what the gentleman here was speaking about, what about Carolyn Bryant . She is very much alive. Jerry she is very much alive. That is a great question. I will try to answer this. I know im supposed to answer this brief. I will try to answer this. Just follow me. Carolyn bryant the reason we know this Carolyn Bryant is the woman who and emmett till reportedly wolf whistled at. She gave a statement to the defense lawyers a couple of weeks before the trial of her thenhusband and his halfbrother, who killed emmett till. Her original statement to the defense, and we have copies of the notes because they are in the Wilfred Bradford hughley William Radford hughley papers at ohio state. She basically said he flirted with her, grabbed her hand, asked her for a date, flirted with her, walked out, whistled at her. She told a much different story at trial, which was that emmett till all but raped her. That was really if you want to boil it down, that is kind of the quick version of that. Fastforward the two killers, there were actually more than that involved, there were at least four white guys involved. Jw milam, roy bryant, leslie milam, the guy that ran the plantation, which also where emmett till was beaten and killed. William bradford hughleys piece, i always believed for so long was true. I now believe almost everything in that piece was a lie. It has kind of been regarded for so many years as gospel. It is all basically a lie, i realize now. Almost everything in detail in it, because we can prove otherwise with facts, not just conjecture. Fastforward Carolyn Bryant was quoted in tim tysons book as admitting that she lied when she testified. Something along those lines, recanted in some way. This is where it gets crazy. Carolyn bryants family says that is not true. Actually, tim tyson doesnt have it on tape, so it just becomes a matter of debate that way. I guess to back up a little bit in time, in 2007, the fbi investigated this again in the 2000s. In 2007, it was presented to a grand jury, a majority black grand jury in mississippi. They voted against indicting Carolyn Bryant. They had a number of choices, one was murder, one was manslaughter, and i think there were some other possibilities. They declined to indict her. They declined to indict henry lee loggins, who was also identified as being involved in the killings as well. There were three black men allegedly involved as well. Lets be honest, they werent involved voluntarily. This was not a situation back in those times where it was voluntary. The question is, what evidence is there against Carolyn Bryant . The grand jury at that time decided there wasnt enough evidence. I know the fbi has been investigating the very thing i talked about earlier about tysons book and whether she said it or didnt say it. All those kinds of things. It becomes a people question the it becomes a legal question, and the law people would know better about than me. The question becomes is there enough evidence to prosecute her . In hindsight, what should have happened is the feds should have prosecuted her for lying to the fbi because she told the fbi the exact same story that she testified to in 1955, and that would have in the easier route to take. That, unfortunately, did not happen. Im afraid nothing is going to happen to her. At least nothing that ive heard so far suggests that. Should she be prosecuted is a great question. It is a matter of evidence and improving that, and we will see with the feds to do, but if im giving my guess, i dont think we will do anything more than they did in 2007. Jerry mitchell, thank you for incredible [applause] thank you for sharing your incredible and transformative telling and to remind us to live fearlessly in our journalism work and lives. I would also like to give a special thanks to everyone who helped put this together from the Event Planning to folks running the lights, and taking care of this facility, and all the work that has been gone into this. Before you depart, i want to andrewce gordon fletcher, the president of the American University black alumni association, which along with the i rw and of communication, is a sponsor of our program tonight. Mr. Fletcher is a twotime alumnus of the au school of public affairs, with a bachelor of arts and a masters degree. He also holds a law degree from florida a m university, and historically black college, and he is a grants manager at the u. S. Department of commerce and served his community in washington as representative for anc 58808, and in addition to his service, thank you for being with us. He will leave us with a few words. Thank you so much for that introduction and good evening, everyone. My name is Gordon Andrew leigh fletcher. I am a little under the weather, so bear with me. On behalf of the American University black alumni association, we would like to thank you for coming out tonight. And definitely want to give a special thank you to mr. Jerry mitchell. We appreciate your trailblazing for around civil rights and all people, not just for any one person but all people, and American University extends firmly upon the institutions commitment to diversity, inclusion and mutual respect. As the chair of the black alumni association, we are pleased to cosponsor this event tonight with the investigative reporting workshop in school of communications. The mission is to provide alumni withlack students networking and professional and while also positively impacting the overall culture of American University. For more information on how to get involved, please pick up a postcard reception for talk with the leader since. Equal,oud to be an ebony and i applaud our groups for their ongoing commitment to au by pronounce by enhancing education through events like tonight. Welcome you for a reception in the theater and we thank you very much. [applause] [indiscernible chattering] announcer this weekend on American History tv, world war ii navajo code talkers and a look back at the 1970 93 Mile Island Nuclear power accident. Eastern on00 p. M. Oral history, the first of six interviews with former world war ii navajo code talkers who served in the marine corps and use their native language to secretly communicate operational plans. They took us, the navajo code talkers, compelled to use their language, and they divided, they schemed in such a way that it of a very unique role of confusing the enemy. Announcer live sunday morning at 8 00 a. M. Eastern on American History tv, and cspans washington journal, the 40th anniversary of the three mile island of the Nuclear Power accident near pennsylvania, considered the most serious Nuclear Power plant accident in the United States. Walker andis samuel acting director of the Nuclear Safety project for the union of concerned scientists edwin lyman. And at 4 00 p. M. On real america, watch the 1979 cbs report fallout from threemile island. At this time, there is no evacuation. Please, stay indoors with your windows closed. Week last month, the people of middletown, pennsylvania, lived in fear of an enemy they cannot hear, see, or feel. Announcer watch American History tv this weekend on cspan3. Now on american artifacts, we travel to independence, missouri, where harry investors men lived after his presidency. Doug richardson, chief of interpretation at the National Historic site, led the tour. This is about 25 minutes