well, this is one that i have been looking forward to for quite a while, given that this is almost like an army war college reunion at the front table here. a number of great historians that i know you are truly going to enjoy listening to. hope you had a nice lunch break. this session is an attempt to break away from the eisenhower's, patents, bradleys, rommel's. while also important are also well covered. so we wanted to cover some of those are lesser-known and-or understood. so to tackle this task we have asked three of our friends to help us out. doctor alexander ritchie who is the convener of our presidential counsel and doctor hal winton who is making his first return to our conference since 2015. trying to keep these three historians in line and on time is doctor tom crane she's up historical services division at the army heritage in education cental in carlisle pennsylvania. so carl good luck and it's up to you. >> just to make everybody feel real good i want to tie in my first panel presentation with the presentation we had just before lunch and reassure everybody that after that great discussion about the inevitability of any kind of war of attrition and be successful as i said in my opening remarks the american military is incapable at this point of fighting that kind of war. so just to make you feel better about her security situation. i'm really honored to be here on this panel. not only three great historian with three good friends, mike and i went to college together but i had to fly to new orleans to see him because you never see him in carlisle. he spent the last year in carlisle. how many in the audience have had an -- the privilege of being at one of alex's tours? another mystery that says west point alum who got misdirected and spent some time teaching at the air university. so it's really a great group and the focus we are going to have is on greatest unheralded commanders. and for the question and answer at the conclusion of these presentations. besides questioning them, i also want to offer it and you can offer your own version of unheralded commanders we can only handle three obviously there's a lot more. so feel free during the question and answer to offer your own nominees that this category. before we start out, everybody look at the program. look at the name of the individual that mike is going to talk about. how many people out there know who he is? there are a few. i know mike said i'm sure he made this guy up. is a hockey player for the penguins. [ laughter ] now, in fact i will let mike take over from here. it's all yours. >> thanks a lot, he doesn't have a k bar with him but as he said he knows where my office is. he is a flyers fan i am a penguins fan and we played tonight so i will keep to 15 minutes, i promise. if you sego on a world war ii trip that lands on utah beach, the one that is coming up, there we go. wearing two stars on his helmet and i'll explain the significance of that. if you go to utah beach, you might see this tank with the word kufra on it. it's easy to miss the significance and what that word meant to the french army the second world war. and i'd like you to notice to under that word is the insignia of what became the second armored division that he would command. this was the tank that he used when he made his public opposition statement against the collaboration and made his way to london through spain and lisbon in 1940 to meet with charles to guard ss charles de gaulle and swear his allegiant. de gaulle just been sent him t equatorial africa where he liberated chad and arrested several officials on the way. on march 2, 1941 in the town of kuh from in libya, he assembled his men and had them get together and say the following words it became known as the coup front both. swear not to lay down our arms until our colors are beautiful colors above the could the drill of strasburg. this was in march 2 on 1941. and this was before us entry into the war this was before the german invasion of the soviet union and this was at a moment when a statement like this seemed improbable to see in the near future. the men in this division would later cover montgomery's planks and tunisia and it would land at utah beach it would liberate paris and leclerc himself would be present at japan's surrender in tokyo bay in 1945. so who was this guy? he was born in 1902, very close to the battlefields of the first world war. he was born into a family that had served the french army since the fifth crusades. he had three direct ancestors who had served napoleon and you can see from his name, philippe frangoise, that's a very nice french aristocrat name. he was the 1924 classic at the academy and the french military academy had classes that has a year and a name. the class of 1924 was very important in wconnection with the oath. he was a 1930s aristocrat and that met his political tendencies tended to go right for time he was reading the right-wing newspaper, a very right-leaning pro-fascist group in the 19 30s. all right, one would expect him to have been at least empathetic or to not declare public opposition. but in this regard he is going to do something very different than most people of his class and his time. in fact several of the officers who sworn oath in the later became officers in the prince, leclerc never forgave and i will talk about that in a little bit. in 1940 he was captured near you and he escaped from the german army twice, changed his name just to philippe leclerc in order to protect his wife and six children who had made their way into the unoccupied zone into southern france. he made his way to spain as i said and then to london and in july 1940 he promised his allegiance to charles de gaulle in the french movement and then went as i said to africa to put together a very unusual, very polyglot and unit of man that included a lot of spanish civil war veterans who have lost the war on fascism in spain and were determined not to lose it again. at that battle at gabon where he liberated gabon from the forces and brought to the free french he arrested the local bishop who refused to swear allegiance to free france and not having any idea where to get 2 stars from a uniform he took them off of the local italian commander and that's what he wore on his feet for the rest of the war. he was an interesting guy. the second division served under patton's third army. patton personally put a silver star on leclerc's uniform you can see the two stars he is wearing on his field as he returned to metropolitan france on august 1, 1944. you can see him shaking patton's hand at utah beach that's patton on the far left. it was always leclerc vision, always his idea that the division would be the unit that would liberate paris. the problem was, he was entirely dependent on the americans for gasoline, ammunition, vehicles even the clothes and uniforms it's been more. so throughout the normandy campaign he was very slowly but very shortly begging, borrowing and stealing equipment from the americans, usually with their knowledge and usually with their okay. although one of his core commanders described him as that miserable man because leclerc always seem to put his unit a little closer to paris than that on the map. bradley and eisenhower didn't particularly get along but he did get along very well with patton who was his direct superior officer and as some of you know patton spoke pretty good french and was one of the early officers who was sympathetic to the argument that it should be a french unit that was the first in the paris. nevertheless the battle forced leclerc to reorient in the division rerouted itself to help close off the gap. in that battle, the division lost 133 men killed in action but killed 4500 germans, took 8800 german prisoners of war and also took 750 german vehicles, 79 candidates and 117 german tanks. that performance helped convince first patton then bradley all the way up to eisenhower that it was worth taking a chance that the division could get into paris. and that is exactly what clerk did. he took a smaller detachment commanded by another general to try to force the german surrender before they would get a street battle in the city of paris. much of what was happening in warsaw at almost the exact time. the last thing the allies wanted was to see paris destroyed in the act of liberating it. and i can talk about this more if anybody wants in q&a. there is no truth whatsoever to the story that the german commander could have destroyed paris with hethe push of a butt or one telephone call. leclerc got into paris and accepted the surrender. this is a picture of him doing that this is actually the next day in the same room of the man with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth is of course charles de gaulle. he showed erup at the train station in southern paris furious leclerc because he had accepted the german surrender but he had also allow the head of the resistance of the city of parents a communist to also sign. and leclerc didn't make himself very popular with the goal for while but they got over it. he went to see his family been for a while for the first time in four years. when he returned it was with his two sons, aged 17 and 18 who joined the french army and continue the march to the east. today people to paris and you go to the same place which is been completely remodeled the room where the surrender happened unfortunately is not there. but at the end of the station if you go to the stop of the stairs there aren't many signs and you have to know what you're looking for you will find a museum at the top that is dedicated .to philippe leclerc and the other half is dedicated to the great french resistance leader who did a similar thing in swearing his allegiance to de gaulle. as part of the allied army, leclerc continued east and here he is fulfilling the coup from oath. there was an incident of some frenchmen who were wearing some general dashes german uniforms they were captured and brought before leclerc. he asked them why they were wearing german uniforms and one of the men shot back and said why are you wearing an american one? leclerc then had them executed and left them unburied. now one of the things about him that has always been interesting to me and that's the reason i bring this incident up is that leclerc always believed that france's real enemy was not germany it was the collaborationist. the problem in france, the germans would eventually go home and would go back to the side of the rhine and would stay there. the people he was really worried about where the collaborationist inside france. those were the people that he wanted to get rid of and he puts me in mind of a comet when i did my book on the liberation of paris of a comet made by one french resistance fighter who told an american who got into the city, i have a long list of people i want to kill and there's not a german name among them. so it was partly leclerc submission to rid france and then it was the gauls goal to follow through that they did not go into a period of civil war or that france would become so chaotic that the american army would attempt to occupy it. at this point the americans had not yet made a decision whether they would treat france as a liberated country like holland, or whether we treated as an occupied country like they expected to do with italy. they had plans to take over the french economy, issue an american script, all of these things. is partly leclerc's and gauls actions here that prevented that from happening. only two more slides, connie. i want to do a post script on what happened to him at the end of the war. in 1946 the french government sent him to indochina to try to figure out what to do about the problem that was beginning to develop in vietnam. this was after bring the french represented at the surrender of the japanese in tokyo. in a series of meetings in march most famously smart sick 1946, he met with chi minh and got them to agree that they would leave indochina in something that was inside the union of france. a loose association of states. he got them agreed to do that in exchange for which france with give essentially home rule to indochina underchi minh. it was really unpopular with people inside indochina and paris. the prince high commissioner in indochina negated the deal very famously. he wrote i am amazed and ashamed that france's fine expeditionary corps in china is commanded by officers who would rather negotiate and fight. in response, leclerc wrote his final miranda to the french government which ended with the word -- words negotiate at all cost. leclerc died in november 1947 when his be 25 crashed in nigeria so we don't know what he would've done in response to the war that was beginning to develop indochina. what we do know that his views were that military solutions by themselves would not work. military forces had to be in -- political e solutions. as i said today, leclerc is kind of unknown figure for the liberation of france but is controversial both for what happened in indochina and he's controversial also because he is associated with the kind of center-right in france. and as you know, french history is quite politicized especially in the memories at this time. so the museum i mentioned is in fact, two museums the left of his is for the french resistance and then on literally the right side of it is leclerc and if you find yourself in paris, as i said it's a difficult museum to find but it's well worth going to. and if you go to sleep that napoleon's tomb you will also see images here on the right and that is leclerc tomb who is also buried there. nancy beaucoup -- merci. >> alice promised he would show us a picture to see if they look like gene hackman. >> i say have you seen the guy who gene hackman place? oh yes, i know. i can do lots of imitations. he was an amazing character. born in stanislav in the ultra- hungarian part of poland. poland of course was divided before 1918. he had a very tough childhood. his father died when he was 12 so he effectively had to take care of two siblings and his mother. he always said that part of his irascible difficult personality came from the fact that when he was young he didn't have much fun. he had a terrible childhood. in 1914, the state of the polls, it was to be drafted in the same with the russian side. so the german part and the american history tv for tended to fight each other. he was drafted and sent to fight in terrible battles, particularly in the carpathian in winter, called the stalingrad of world war i. by the end of 1914, 97 percent casualties. so he bysaid that he was absolutely horrified by the war. he said i will never forget the lessons learned in that vicious, pointless horror. of course peace does come to poland as re-created in 1918 but peace does not come in the way it does for western europe. there are skirmishes, and so linens famous attempt to bring a revolution to germany, and he joined the newly formed polish army. when they finally defeat lenin, he goes to warsaw university to become a professor of logistics and he also teaches at the polish war college. and he's nnpromoted so that by the beginning of 1939, he is a commandant of the prestigious 21st infantry regiment, the so- called children of warsaw infantry. he was absolutely horrified when hitler invaded poland in 1939 and then on 17 september serbians carry on doing the same thing. he fought valiantly during the siege of warsaw and he was outmanned, and soutgunned, his man those men held all other objectives. and the regiment remained undefeated. he became a great hero and symbol in poland. his regiment and he himself were awarded poland highest honor. he was taken prisoner by the nazis but was sent to fight and to report. instead of being allowed to return to warsaw he was assigned to the war division so he bought in france as well. and at the end of course he was evacuated to the uk with his men. in britain he was assigned to the fourth rifle day but he still had this obsession that he was going to fight in poland. and he said i'm going to develop a parachute brigade which means i can drop into poland to fight. it was the first such unit in the polish army and this was also the beginning of the conflict with the brits. he was very energetic and innovative in creating the regiment. he example created the first jumping tower in the uk for training. he was in the first british airborne division set he was amazed to find how the pols new about parachuting. and they were grateful for their help. he also said that although he was an impressive person he had a very short temper which did not go down with the general generals. this was true, general gavin for example called him a good man but said he was stubborn, outspoken and of course he let it be known that he wanted be treated like a major general. so this did not endear him to people like boyd browning either. boyd browning, eyes suppose his nemesis is standing next to him in this picture. and then the parachute grade was developed in britain, and then the fourth of august 1944, of course the polish uprising breaks out. he and his men are determined to get back into fight. as we all know, stalin refused to let western allies to use soviet airbases behind enemy lines. it would have been a suicide mission. so the polish commander in chief with abthe brigade under british command and abandoned all plans to send it to warsaw. this is what set the stage for his involvement in market gardens. of course suffice it to say, history were critical of him from the very beginning. the point that struck me immediately was that all the droppings were at least six miles from the objective. and he also kept saying the germans, the germans were not factoring in the germans. one of the biggest blunders was the failure of the allied intelligence system to determine the germans numbers and their capability. i determined that there criticisms he went on and on criticizing market gardens which didn't endear him to him spears. but market gardens as we know went ahead anyway. the polish parachute brigade was split into several groups, due to the shortage of transport aircraft. so a small part parachuted on 19 september and the rest arrived on 20 september. he tried to cross the rhine three times to come to the aid of the first airborne division but the fear that they had been promised had been sunk and they were forced to cross on these small dinghies. he still got 150 men to reinforce the embattled paratroopers. he recounted i was fighting along the polls and generally speaking the problem with the pols is that they would go for any german they saw like a dog after a rat. they hated the germans and they were always pining for a go at them to the extent that they were a bit difficult to control but certainly during the last four days of the action, the pols held the escape line and without this rearguard action none of our own would escape. after the battle the general said the first polish paired troopers played an important role. your troops worked very gallantly and d you will except the following decorations. two military crosses, blah, blah, blah. while the first hint that he had something was going wrong was when he met with general browning and on 24 september. but he really got the idea that something was wrong when the polish government in exile awarded boyd browning the highest award and he wrote him to congratulate him and saying well done and he said i'm going to be absolutely candid and said that to be awarded oppose decoration at the time is unfortunate. our relationship with your grade has not been the happiest for the past two weeks. he was eventually relieved of his command. and there's tua lot of proof an evidence of that. and montgomery had been influenced by boyd because on 17 october completely changing his tune he wrote not to simpson but field marshall allen, which in in astonishment -- astonishing letter said that the polish army bought badly. and did not want the brigade there so send them to italy or something. and it was really quite extraordinary because there was no evidence of all the cowardice. for example it is one of many examples major henry hall recalls that the pols got a lot of their chaps on the other side i thought it was only polite to call the polish brigade. i asked the general if you me to bring back any pols and said no my pols will stay on the other side and they will fight until they kill germans and or did themselves. and he said now you come back and tell me how many germans you have killed? so why did browning behave like this? there's a lot of speculation but not time to go into it. he could have been using him as a scapegoat for market garden but certainly he treated him very badly. it's possible that this is linked to high politics. pullen was really the elephant in the room by late 1944. and i'm not really a conspiracy theorist but there is a connection to churchill's visit to moscow the tolstoy conference. when he forced the polish primee minister delegation to come to moscow. they arrive on 12 october 1944 and by this point, the polls are in a very weak position, that warsaw uprising has just collapsed and so they have lost their only element of real power. church how access churchill noted that the underground leader wouldn't bother to serve anymore because the germans were taking care of it. and they were taking care of him because he was a prisoner of war. churchill was trying to force the pols to agree to cooperate with the communist puppet government that stalin was trying to set up. and on 16 october at the end of the orconference, ellen burk who was in town as churchill's military advisor got a note talking about how badly the brigade had performed at market garden and churchill presented this piece of evidence to the pols, thereby making it true that they were not considered to be useful to the allied war movement. in this put more pressure on them to cooperate with stalin. and it showed stalin and his conference were willing to give in on the side of poland as long as the soviets cooperated elsewhere in return. and on 18 october, church note s ãi churchill sent a note to itunes -- eyes now saying that the matter had been ironed out. he eventually ends up as the treasurer to the duke of edinburgh. prince philip wrote the forward to his book calling him a very remarkable man. he remains very popular in the high echelons of the reddish establishment. so what about >> bob:? he was demoted to inspector general and ended up at the end of the war at a brief stint working as a night watchman working the night shift and then managed to get his wife out of poland and had h been blinded, his son had been blinded and of course he died in london 1967. there has been no official recognition of him at all in the uk. interestingly there has been in poland. acadians had family in the second world war and the dutch are very interested in this history. and there are quite a lot of permutations and he was awarded the highest dutch honor the military order of william to the parachute brigade in the hague on 31 march in 2006. the only other foreign unit is the 82nd airborne. and so he was also given a high award as well. some brits were appalled by the way he trwas treated, tony hibbert tried to get him resuscitated as it were after the bottleãjust battle. he was dismissed he lost his rank in the army and i regret to say he would died a discreet popper. there were many in the regiment who felt this dismissal was unfair. and a number of us read the honor that honored him in the same way the bridge did. he didn't get his wish he died in 2014. in britain he remains pretty well forgotten as a general. but not, rai am pleased to say holland where the graves of the fallen pols of the first paratroop regiment are cherished. thank you very much. [ applause ] >> i'm sure you won't need to use as many accents as alex did for yours. [ laughter ] >> it is great to be back at the museum's international conference on world war ii. when i was here three years ago, i quickly learned that this audience takes its history [ speaking foreign language ] i can't tell you how much this warms as historians heart. take you for being who you are. the man pictured here is troy h middleton, who meant commanded the h corps in the battle of the bulge. he is the subject of my presentation. slide off, please. i would like to begin by asking you a question before i know you will return the favor. i would like to know what us army officers name first jumps into your mind when i say the word guess stone while talking about the bulge. i'm going to give you a few options here. the very first thing that jumped in your mind when i said the word baston. was george s patton, okay, not too many. i thought there would be more than that. but that name was anthony mccall us. whose provocative reply of nuts, [ laughter ] to the german surrender ultimatum galvanized this fierce resistance. okay i've seen that. all right finally, the first name was dick winters. what my job is today, the and lights should all be often the audience now. what my job today is it should be middleton. and i will make the case that he is the single most, i hope, the single most important american commander in saving baston from captured by the germans. to do that i want to take you on a historical journey. who was troy middleton, what did he do in the bowls? why has his role there not been fully appreciated? and finally, so what? troy middleton was born on 12 october 1889 in copia county mississippi. he graduated from mississippi a&m mississippi university in 1910 and enlisted in the army gaining a commission as a second lieutenant of the infantry in 1913. when the world entered world war i he was a command company in the fourth division. his war record was distinguished. on 26 september 1918, middleton newly promoted to lieutenant colonel led the first battalion 47th infantry through an offensive. two weeks later he was promoted to colonel and given command of the 39th infantry. that made him the youngest colonel and the youngest regimental commander in the aef. he then let the 39th infantry on attack. he pushed the edge and marked the high point and their advance to the americans. are these actions he was awarded the distinguished service medal. middleton used the next 18 years to reflect on his war experience, studying methods of compact and past the insights he developed on the other officers of his generation. after the war he joined infantry board at bidding and was called to lecture on infantry weapons and tactics at the war college as a captain. he graduated first place in the advanced officers class and he graduated in eighth place from the command and general staff school finishing 17 places above his classmate and friend george s patton junior. he then taught at leavenworth for four years. the students read like a who's who of world war ii senior commanders. eisenhower, devers, hodges, patch, eichelberger, simpson, buckner and jarreau. that is once a pre-allied commander and six field army commanders. he also taught 10 future core commanders. after retaining to troop judy he was assigned to pms at louisiana state university. he was so highly thought of that the university made him dean of men, twice requested his extension. he was then assigned to the philippines. while there he received an offer from lsu to become dean of administration in an annual salary of $5400. the offer was too good to refuse, he retired as lieutenant colonel in 1935. marshall called him back to active duty ershortly after pea harbor and promoted him to colonel. he soon rose to major general and was given command of the 45th division, the division fought with distinction in sicily and salerno. but after the breakout of the solano beachhead, milton aggravated a previous knee injury. not deeming himself medically bit in the italian mountains he requested relief from command and it was granted. but early in 1944, eisenhower who desperately needed comp but it corp commanders requested that marshall sent middleton to europe to command the eighth court. middleton's court played a major war in patents breakout from normandy and then laid siege to the britain ports. on 20 september, the corps was assigned to coors ninth army and given an economy of force mission defending an 85-mile front. middleton's, so that's who middleton was when he got to the arden's. what did you do there? he has essential contribution was to hang on in desperate circumstances just long enough for eisenhower to get reserves to the forest that would stem the german tide and allow the allies to take the offensive. defending his extended front against the combined attack of a panzer army with only four divisions because they were brand-new to the theater, or as rick atkinson so vividly described yesterday he had been mauled in the forest defending the clearly impossible. so if he could manage to delay the forces against him long enough, things might turn out well. here, i will concentrate only on the most dramatic part of his mission. keeping the vital road junction at bastogne out of the hands of the germans. one of germans most gifted tactical commanders situated panther divisions against the exhausted division along the coast known as skyline drive about 18 miles of bastogne. with his force he plan to be east of the line on 16th december and last through to bastogne by the 17th. this, he hoped would get him a crossed by the 20. the soldiers of the 20th id however put up valiant resistance, holding their 24- mile front or two old days, thus throwing the big rents into his plan. but on the morning of the 18th, middleton having committed his meager court reserved a little with which to stop the leading corps commander from reaching the stone. he had, however identified three key places that if held, could allow for successful defense of bastogne. to the southeast, the northeast and to the north. middleton's pass on the 18th is described in military doctrine as creating space for time. what he was actually doing was treating lives for time. the first of those lives where the soldiers who passed the roads defending a critical move just west of the skyline drive. at 2:oh 5 am, middleton received a wcall and was requested to withdrawal or reinforce the task force. middleton denied both requests. and it was soon overrun. but middleton was able to use the time those valiant soldiers bought for two reasons. first, ccb tent a/d was in route to him from luxembourg city. and second, early that morning, eisenhower had released the screaming eagles to bradley and dispatched them to bastogne. they would hopefully soon be in route by truck. if the corps commander could employ the armor troops appropriately and if they fought well, the airborne troopers just might be the panzer troops on the east side of bastogne, rather than the west. but it wasn't in the run thing. colonel john roberts arrived at bastogne at 4 pm. middleton's instructions to him were a model of military clarity. and here, i will quote middleton's exact orders to robertson. "ccb will open without delay in three teams to the following positions to counter in the -- in many threats. one team will be the south east, one team to the vicinity of novell. move with utmost speed. hold these positions at all costs." no doubt about middleton's intention there. roberts was an experienced commanders, his soldiers fought well and delete elements of 100 first arrived in rthe assembly area west of bastogne during the night of 18-19 december. as a result middleton was able to deploy the battalion to meet the soldiers east of bastogne, before her bradley's order moving the headquarters to new chateau on the morning of december 19. thanks to middleton school had an clear thinking, look it's lost the race to bastogne. the story of the screaming eagles magnificat defensive bastogne is oywell known to virtually all of you. but the singular role of troy middleton and allowing the division to have its rendezvous with destiny has not been well known. why hasn't troy middleton's role been fully appreciated? i think for many reasons, the most basic is that military historians tend to be fascinated with what happened at the top of the military pyramid and what happens at the bottom. we are intrigued by the play of patton, eisenhower, montgomery, bradley. we are equally fascinated by what action is like at the sharp end of a stick. looks like john keegan's the face of battle and band of brothers and movies like saving private ryan and hacksaw bridge are intense human dramas played out in harrowing detail. but we tend to leave at the echelons in the middle. and the important commanders who translate strategic goals in the task -- tactical tasks. there's another region by retiring by 1937, middleton took himself out of the army for a critical five years. had he remained on active duty he almost certainly would've had a much more significant role in and influence on the history of world war ii. finally, he did not remain on active duty after the war, but returned to lsu and became president of the university in 1951. nevertheless, he proved himself a more than competent division and corps commander. he did so, particularly in his masterful delay asduring the first three days of the battle of the bulge, which allow the americans to retain bastogne and thereby materially frustrate hitler's plans for grand victory against the anglo- americans in the west. okay, now what is the so what? i think we should take away from this the first, that the people in the middle are important. we certainly need officers who combine first-class mind and first-class temperament with high-level military commanders. alexander, marlborough, napoleon, wellington, washington, grant, persian, eisenhower, most recently perhaps betray us. -- pretorius. heaven knows we need brief capable soldiers, airmen and marines. without them we will never have a credible defense. but if they are not commanders in the middle who can translate grand ideas into achievable tasks, we will never have an effective military force. and if we don't study these people carefully, we will never grasp the whole of military history. thank you for your kind attention. i look forward to your questions. [ applause ] >> as the chair of this panel i take full credit for the quality of all those presentations. [ laughter ] again, i ask for your questions and i would also as an option it was your own idea of lda great heralded commander who deserves notice. >> hi, i put an addendum on that just maybe make the name reference and have the panels comment on the individual if you would like to. >> okay, that is fair. so the first question is to your right right here. >> i just wanted to talk a little bit about doctor richie's presentation. when i was younger, my dad had a book squadron three hope -- 303 which is about a polish squadron that fought with the raf very gallantly. at an the end of the war, as i recall they were disbanded and really not recognized at all. so that seems to be a trend with the pols and the english in those situations. >> that is absolutely true. and in fact it is a tradition, it seems in england. because it's not only squadron 303, the pols were not invited to participate in the 1946 ve day celebrations just by the fact that they were in everywhere you can think of. because this might be offensive to stalin. they were also, for example the brits refused to acknowledge that the slaughter had been committed by the soviets and not the nazis . they accepted that the soviets had committed the crime it took until gorbachev said yes, we did it and yeltsin handed over the evidence for the brits to finally see yes, the soviet did commit this crime. and it was only in 2003 that tony blair apologized to the pols for not having been invited to the celebrations and it was only 2006 that they participated in the celebrations of the commemoration of the ve celebrations. >> panelists, next question is center about halfway back. >> i would like to accept doctor crane's challenge and i would like to give my nomination as an attorney i would love to argue the point but jeremy said i can only give a name. so my name is alexander patch. >> i will take that one. alexander patch is best known of course for his work in seventh army and his command of seventh army. patch barracks in stuttgart is named after him. what most people don't know is that he is also, before that, the commander of the 14th corps at guadalcanal. and the to assess the two army divisions that chased the japanese off the island. so he gets high marks that while the marines were hanging on by their fingernails and at officer at new caledonia, and he sent tons of army supplies to the marines because he knew they were needed, despite the fact he had an apprehension that the american troops under his command would be committed. the other thing he did that was absolutely amazing to me and i have not gotten to the bottom of offensive thought the portion of the battle of guada canal as a commander with no staff whatsoever. it was not until general griswold relieved him and patch went back to united states for well needed rest that staff got there. i am very high on him. course, he was great coming into southern france. great work. west point, the patch family cemetery plot is kind of in the center of the west point cemetery. and ironically, his stone is a very small one, and his father, who was a captain in the army, he has a very big one. >> the next question is to the left. >> good afternoon. i hope my head does not blind you folks, first of all. conrad mentioned my dad. i would submit four-star general jacob devers. >> of course, we had a presentation on him a couple conferences ago. scott's recommend biography of him. he goes into detail what he and along and did not get why he did not get the recognition he deserves. >> to your right. i am not sure if i am butchering his name -- is a statue to him in southeastern paris. he is in charge of the french expeditionary corps there. he is one of those that leclerc did not get along with initially because he originally accepted the vichy government. the reason that he stayed under american command so long was the alternative was to go under -- which he refused to do. into this lost army group, the six to group that --theno credit whatsoever sixth army group that gets no credit whatsoever. >> the left side, please. >> the person i would like to recommend is captain ernest e. evans. from michigan? is that why you are recommending him? [laughter] >> i think we will have to incorporate this gentleman as part of our panel. >> we all have some homework to do. >> center section, about halfway back. >> hello. many of us know the role that many klondike commanders played in the second world war and i would emphasize the role that p.o.w. commanders played in keeping up morale. add the name of these squadron leader -- he was amazing and very involved in the beginning. he escaped numerous times and was very infamous for that. the germans disliked him for this reason. but very inspirational, and you are absolutely right. it was part of the assumption of the duty of an officer was to escape. of rigorousort rules and regulations as to how this should be done, how you should behave, and how escape should be planned. you couldn't just try to run under the wire by yourself. in the pow hierarchy camps and so on. he was absolutely an amazing character. >> he was one of the characters in the movie "the great escape." >> left section of the with the back. >> admiral sir bertram ramsay. >> i would not disagree with that at all. you know, the army war college where i work and teach, actually what we try to do is look at those folks who are thinking strategically, are thinking big picture, and he is one of those guys certainly doing that. not get enough credit for what he did. >> the middle section. >> admirals tend to get disregarded. >> especially in the next week or so. [laughter] i am not mistaken, i think evans commanded an american destroyer -- evans?okee couplealong with a destroyers -- americans my favorite battle of all time. there are more great one-liners that come out of that battle. american any other battle in history. >> the one i wanted to nominate kiss sado -- que sada. be on thegoing to panel when we set this up. he was actually kind of ostracized out of the air force afterwards. he almost became persona non .rata the postwar air force became dominated by the bomber generals . >> there's a decent biography of him that came out not too long ago? >> yes. >> to the left. >> great presentation from you all. how about -- >> do you want -- abouto not know as much him as i would like to. third infantry commander. who roseose officers provedy in command and himself capable at the next command level the moment he stepped into that job. going from a division commander to a court commander looks easy, is hard. flawlessly.t almost -- going from a division ps commander a cor looks easy, is hard. there is a biography that came out about him -- i can't think of the author right now. commander kind of american needed during world war ii. recommend his memoir. it is called "command mission." it is not the best memoirs of world war ii. you really got a sense of how he and the american army grew through the war. >> he got the reputation of being able to speak truth to power. being able to say, this is a really bad idea. why are we doing this? this general had a role in , 423rd regiment surrender. could you comment on that awkwardness and how that transpired? >> yes i do. i can and i will. it would take me a lot longer than we probably have your. is,long and the short of it the four 22nd and the four 23rd were in a very exposed position 423rd were a very exposed position. it was an untenable position. it was made more untenable iv thatthat -- by the fact they came up to the lines with wehrmacht colonels and other way to neutralize those regiments. what should have happened, archer jones, the division commander, should have ordered them off the ridge and back to positions west of the river. that that did not happen is jones'srcher responsibility, but troy middleton bears responsibility as well. middleton knew the vulnerability of those two regiments that are then jones himself. i think middleton's big mistake the two staraw rank of archer jones and he assumed competence. [laughter] winton: that was a fatal error for soldiers who were marched off to the german style lags. sta i will leave it there. i can continue later. >> there is an image of him playing the piano -- no, that's not jones. toa guy who is fascinating read about, teddy roosevelt. he had a great war career as well. of course, he dies of a heart attack. >> he had been fired once already. this was kind of the second way around. he was a character. >> the roosevelt children, they would get involved in all kinds of crazy stuff, the oss, these weird oil deals were there trying to steal from the british. they do interesting things, the roosevelt children. and the center, and for those of you at the speaker's right, i will be getting to you. so, i have to throw a name in. lieutenant general -- the conqueror of borneo. i did want to add there was a roosevelt in new guinea who gets fired from the italian command for being inc. work with the -- incompetent. but the roosevelts to get around. [laughter] >> can you comment on any of the other polish commanders? prof. richie: i would say the name that takes the most incredible journey is general anders. poland is invaded by the soviets and he gets caught up in the -- part oft of that that. 100,000 or so poles are taken off to the gulags. those that survive are sent to various camps. when the nazis invaded the soviet union, stalin thinks it might be worth using some of these poles who end up in the gulags and general anders approaches him and they get hadission to get poles who been incarcerated out of the soviet union, and they walk out, they get into persia and then into palestine and they create an army, the anders army, which goes up by north africa into italy and fights. there is no time to go into detail, but three of the most amazing epic journeys of these people, not just the soldiers, but trying to get their families out. women and children, a lot of them end up staying in persia. it's a fascinating epic and really were the -- worthy of great deal of attention because he was an amazing, amazing general. in the front row of the center section. a word about lightning joe collins, born right here in new orleans? >> he is not unheralded. >> everybody knows about him. >> i think everybody calls him the best corps commander in the eto. he fought almost to ve day before he was pulled out of the line. almost single-handedly responsible for the biggest broke bradley's first army out of normandy. his timing in the balls -- in e was exquisite. the way he thought the defensive phase of the bulge was a very, very well and shrewdly managed. he did all things well. with one exception. i would say that he bears some moral responsibility for what in the -- i admire joe collins more than i can tell you. two places in the war college named for generals, ridgeway and collins. on the far left to the very back. theo, on the other side of , field marshal william -- dr. neiberg: yes, slim's statue is there. diaries were to me one of the most interesting primary source documents i have ever read. it anyone understood strategy, what was going to go well, what was not going to go well, i think it was alan brooks. how the speaker feels with some of his comments about churchill in his memoirs. pretty nasty. i will say about slim -- another book, "defeat into victory to her car -- "defeat into victory." slim's memoirs. one of the things that inspires the doctrine, reading about slim's victory in burma and how other compounds to completely outmaneuver the japanese. dr. neiberg: when hearing about the manhattan project and the atomic bomb, he was the first guy to grasp -- you cannot use these weapons the way you used other weapons. this is going to change everything. >> he is kind of the george marshall for the british. dr. neiberg: he is. >> i would like to throw in my favorite anecdote about bill slim. were tenuous in burma. from time to time, the quartermaster of his army would come to him and say, sir, it is time to put the troops on half rations. he said, all right, we will start with the army staff. [laughter] >> the right section in the front row. command -- i would recommend as commander "mad " churchill. he was in english commander who fought the bow and arrow in norway and yugoslavia. >> sounds like he had the right name. [laughter] far leftl go to the section. >> this is more of a direct question. and patent -- when patton the seventh army transferred the french werethe part of it. what was leclerc's reaction to that? dr. neiberg: it's complicated. you are talking about command arrangements? it's complicated. wantarily, leclerc did not to serve under any of the generals who had once sworn the oath to vichy. politically, he is very anxious to make sure that the political chain of command goes back to charles de gaulle. the way that they do this, you will, under operational command of the americas, but political decision-making for the french army will rest with the gall. that is a difficult balance to strike, but they managed to do it. panelist on the right section, about halfway back. a young captain, i went through the engineer course and clarkgeneral rousseff lee , not to be confused with mark clark. i would throw his name in. so, general clark perform genome and service -- performed yeoman's service. battle in which the odds were against him, but he long asfor probably as viv could have been held onto. later in his career, he took one good battle and he wrote it for a long way. [laughter] winton: and he deliberately and purposefully eclipsed the larger and more important role of bob hasbrouck. this will be corrected soon. a friend of mine is coming out with a book on the seventh armored division and the bulge, and i think it will recognize clark's important contribution, but it will make it clear to the reader he was not there by himself, that he was fighting under the able direction of bob hasbrouck. >> far right. dr. neiberg, really appreciated the talk you did on , one of myeclerc heroes of world war ii. i could not help thinking about "and of brothers -- "band of brothers." says was a moment where he that frenchto beat bastard, or something like that. i wonder if you know who was the first to eagles nest? like to thank you all. on behalf of my colleagues also, it was marvelous to hear all three days. dr. neiberg: your question is who was the frog bastard? was that your question? [laughter] >> who was first to the eagles nest? ok.neiberg: i'm it that question seriously. i did not mean that in any derogatory way. it came out wrong. i better shut up. [laughter] >> i better shut up. i'm sorry. sorry, i don't know. [applause] >> i'm pretty sure the americans ere the first to the eagle's nest. >> no doubt about that. there were a lot of hard feelings. you know, a friend of mine asked e once, we were in a bar so it's not an academic thing, i'm already deep -- [laughter] the point , he made hat, you know, de gaulle is infuriating to the allies because he's holding to a vision of france. doing the same thing, holding to an idea, the question his here was asking, military chain of command may go through you the united states. he may have to go operationally corp commanders want but de gaulle -- they agreement that the political linkage that the french army and government, in case, will be de gaulle, because no frenchman has voted for him. any desire xpressed to have him at the head of the french political structure but absolutely determined this is what's going to happen and it's a major factor in going ing france from into civil war when the wareneds, after all the things france. on in myself with scued that. [laughter] >> the next question on the far section about halfway back. >> yeah. the roosevelt brothers were also and helped ridden inof before shaw.ruler my name is wild hill donovan. we have to put up a little plug for our place. donovan's papers. they fill a whole wall of one of bays. they fill a whole row in the bay. he was involved in everything. everything, he was everywhere. >> panelists, the right section front. the >> how about this. general -- nder chewycarp. he's been forgotten about. perhaps slightly more interesting presence of the guy gulag. much more intelligent general chew cough. butcher.lled the he was much more intelligent and clever in. in sort of the things much ale of more significant. >> stalin graph -- way to berlin, going north. >> i have at least eight hands time for only two quick last comments or questions. p. wood.hirley wood or armored division commander and relationship with troy middleton. wood relationship -- p. was a good tactical commander. the relationship that really though, was the thetionship with -- who was 12th corps commander. and it's a very strange tale. wood was such a great he ical commander, that hought he was infallible, and he crossed eddie once and patton him for doing so and he told him flat out, that if violate eddie's orders no course other than to relieve you. i'll throw in this. because p.ed p. wood was the abbreviation for military used at the academy, and general wood was a tactical instructor. core went outside the boundary once. for several days, he was ordered back in. obey the order and that was -- that was the straw broke the camel's back. patton wrote home to his wife, to do it, but he didn't give me any choice. sending t he was just him back for a rest, but it ended up in a relief from command. if i remember right, late in the command, ot back in shortly before v.e. day. great tactician, didn't want to orders all the time. >> panelists, the final question right about halfway back. i think the history of the pacific, self, in the gets downplayed. glory for all the what happened in the pacific and i would nominate general iken burger. >> obviously, anybody working under mcarthur had a hard time a whole lot of notice. >> can i make a couple of about eichel burger. core a very competent commander, who had several that he pulled off greatly at important times under great pressure. most dramatic one was the buna.can victory at mcarthur told him, bob, come buna or don't come back, and that goes for your too.f-of-staff, and mcarthur was dead serious about it. received similar orders rom his core commander during world war i when an important german position had to be taken. eichel berger knew he was serious. reenergize and put morale back into the soldiers of the 32nd division. big thing, though, is that core staff allowed eichel berger to reach back for support australia. they got to the soldiers of the 32nd division, the division by do.lf couldn't he performed a similar role at where you have a core headquarters supervisor supervising the activities in a very important operation that gotten mcarthur's timetable for the return of the bogged down so he lays a vital role in two places. the problem he runs into late in so vain thathe was he thought he should have than ed more recognition he did, and despite his buyers' staff clovis his with him not to publish vitriolic memoirs anyway. i wish he hadn't. >> this is worth another well.ence as mcarthur loved risk takers. who took risks. he always clashed with his army er and commanders because they were not risk takers.

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