Spirit seemed to emerge early, earlier than most. Yes. I spent part of my childhood in georgia, in the middle part of georgia. I was born in jacksonville, florida, and i think from age probably 3 to 8 was spent in georgia, wadly, georgia, an area considered middle georgia. Not that far from augusta, georgia. And thats where i came of age as a teenager. I came by my activism very early. I always had sort of an innate sense of what was right and what was wrong, and i dont know exactly where i got that from. And the idea of segregation and things that white people could do and black people could not do, i understood very early as maybe as early as 7, 8 years old that there was something wrong with that. Obviously i wasnt capable of any kind of deep philosophical thinking. Its just that why cant we go there and white folks can, and why are we poorer than white people. Those were the things that as a child concerned me. I did have one incident in wattly, georgia, wherein i guess i violated a very sacred and lifeendangering taboo. I put my hands on a white woman. It happened we were in a store with very narrow aisles. And i was coming down the aisle and she was coming up the aisle. It was such that you had to turn sideways to get past each other. So, i veered to the right to go past and she veered to the right. It was that two for two step. Finally she put her hands on my shoulder with a smile. She said you stand here and let me scoot past you. When two of my friends saw that, she were scared out of their wits and they ran out of the store running home and im thinking, what in the world is going on . Have they done something wrong . So im running behind them. And by the time we got back to where we lived, they ran home and told their mother that i had touched a white woman. I still didnt understand what that meant. Well, my mother knew what it meant, and she immediately grabbed me and hugged me and started praying. I still dont understand it, didnt understand what was going on. And about a week later, the clue klux klan paraded through our community and they did that at night. What they would do is turn the light on in their car and theyd sit in their cars and drive through the neighborhood in their robes. I still didnt know what was going on. But later i learned that there have been cases where black boys as old as i am have been killed because they touched a white woman. But once again, i just kind of shrugged my shoulders. I didnt understand why. In florida, you had the colored and white signs, especially at the drinking fountain. And i naively wanted to know what color was the water in the colored fountain. And, of course, i drank from the colored fountains and we had a small bus company in saint augustine, florida. I almost never sat in the back. Saint augustine was unlike any other southern town. Had i done that in birmingham or montgomery, it was a very good possibility i would have been killed. But i had the reputation there of being henry james, and you know henry james a little bit crazy. So, i guess people kind of dismissed my actions that kind of way. But i always knew that this whole thing about segregation and what white folks could do and black folks could not do, i knew it was something wrong with that. It wasnt until many, many years later, i think im in my 40s, when i attended a funeral of a relative of mine. And this was in wattly, georgia. Outside the church was a cemetery and a lady who has since passed who was the oral historian for our family, took me to the cemetery and had me to walk among the tombstone. And im reading the names of people who had died many years ago. And she brought me to a tombstone which said, tobiatha washington, born 1827, died 1907. And she told me the story of this lady. This lady was the most whipped slave in all of that particular county. And what happened to her, as was related to me was, one day she was working in the field. A tall lady for her for those times. She may have been 56 tall. The owner of the farm where they were slaves sent for her to come into the house. It seems that everybody knew what that meant. That meant she was going to be eventually raped by the owner of the farm. After she was working there for maybe a few weeks, he attempted to rape her. She fought him off. That in itself was a capital offense. She was taken out to the middle of the yard, tied to the whipping post and whipped so badly that she was not able to go back to work in the fields for maybe a couple of weeks or so. Once she healed, went to the fields, after a matter of weeks she was sent for again. Again she went to the house, and in a period of time he attempted to rape her again. Again she fought him off. And again she was whipped severely. A third time after all of the healing process, when she was sent for, she went to the whipping post and tied herself to the whipping post. And when the women of the field saw that, they all came from the field and surrounded her. And, of course, she was not whipped. And so as i was standing there and my cousin said, introduce yourself. I said, introduce myself . Yes, introduce yourself. I says, maam, my name is henry james thomas. And then she said, tobiatha, this is your great, great, great, great grandson henry james. Well, i lost it. I fell down on my knees and i was crying. And then i said to her, i am so sorry i was not there to protect you. And she my cousin looked at me and said, you see . And of course, she asked me how many times i had been arrested. I said 22 times. She said them white folks been whipping you, too, but you didnt give up your manhood, did you . And i said, no. She said, she didnt give up her woman hood, and thats when i learned something about the other side of my family and probably at least once a year wattly is about three hours drive from atlanta. I go to her grave and i talk to her. Was she on your mothers side or your shes on my fathers side. So, thats where i get my rebellion from. Did your mother and father talk to you about these things at all . No. No, they never did. And blacks did not talk to their children about slavery. You can tell me if im right or wrong. I dont think many Holocaust Survivors talk to their children. It was a matter of shame and it was a matter of revisiting something that was just awful. And so ive never when i talk to my mother about that particular story, she was just silent. No doubt she had heard about it. The complete irony is that particular farm where my family was held as slaves is now owned by one of my Family Members. The one who, the historian who died early last year, but she owned that particular and we would have on my fathers side some of our family reunions there. She would constantly try to get me to spend the night in that house and i just told her, im sorry, i cant do that. But the irony is that they the Family Member owned that because obviously over the years, whoever owned it from the whiteside fell into some had some Financial Difficulties and had to either sell it or be sold for taxes. So, when did you graduate from high school . 59. And did you go to college . Howard university. And thats where i got started in an organized fashion in the Civil Rights Movement in 1960. So, what was going on at the school . Was this was this something that i mean, that you found yourself in an environment which was supporting ideas that you had that you felt i would imagine you were chomping at the bit. Absolutely. Thats the way to describe it. September 1st, when the four students from North Carolina a t sat down at the lunch counter and they came on the 6 00 news that this had happened, i remember sitting in, we had what was called there was only one room in the dorm where there was a tv. Rest of us couldnt afford television. It was down in the basement, what we call the day room or the activity room, and im watching this. I dont know what particular channel, network, cbs, nbc. I remember they were talking about what these students said and i remember jumping up and saying, yeah, we have to dot same thing. City of d. C. Had accommodations law. To the south was virginia segregation. To the north and to the east is maryland segregation. So, while we could go to any restaurant in d. C. , but just a few minutes away we could not. So, we got started and i helped organize the first chapter of the Nonviolent Action Group which we call n. A. G. And every weekend we would either go over into virginia or maryland to do sitins and i think sometime that year in march i was first arrested in hyattsville, maryland. And protesting racism at a it was a movie theater. Uhhuh. So, it was, like you said, i was chomping at the bit. This was tailormade for me. You got involved in snick fairly early. Yes. How did that happen . We had the second Howard University had the second largest student protest group, Tennessee State had by far the largest. All during the month of february, march and up to april, all a lot of the college, historically black colleges throughout the south were having some form of demonstration and sitins. Ella baker who at that time was a member of scls, southern christian leadership conference, came up with the idea that all of the students who were involved and need to be some coordinated effort. So, she organized this for students to come to shoal university in raleigh, North Carolina. And we did. For that weekend we met students from Tennessee State, Fisk University, more house, spell man. All of us came together and thats when miss baker said we should form our own organization. So, the various organizations that they had at these campuses, we decided to form one group and it was called the student nonviolent coordinating committee, in other words the acronym for sncc. Thats how we got started. We kind of folded our organization into that one organization and thats how we became sncc. That was when you were a freshman . Yes. And did you i was just curious about the academic side of your college years. Did you have an intention to major in something in particular . Did you have any ambition . I left home with the idea of becoming a doctor. My lady who lived across the street, lady who also had a little private school we called her mama joshua. She thought i was a pretty smart kid because i memorized the books. Bible quicker than any other kid. And to this day i can still recite a few of them. Everything was done in the form of singing. Like genesis, exodus, le vit cuss i did that much quicker than anyone else. She thought i was smarter than anyone else. She said, you need to go to school and become a doctor so you can take care of me and my sister. I left Howard University with the idea of becoming a doctor. The first time i was arrested and i was in jail, the heck with being a doctor. Im going to be a lawyer because i got to fight this injustice. [ laughter ] and so that was the idea, and i was never a real stellar academic scholar in the classroom. I had to work harder than anyone else just to get a c out of a class. But thats when i got thoroughly involved. And i guess you can say i realized what my calling was. So, when did you first hear about the freedom rides . 1961, because we got started in may of 61. I think i got the flyer or the news about it from core probably in march. They were looking for someone at least 21 years of age or older and, of course, i was only 19. So, my roommate, john moody, who had been a had spent ten years in the air force when he came to howard, so he was ten years older than myself. And he had also volunteered and he was selected because obviously he was over 21. And i think two days before we were supposed to report to a friends Retreat Center there in northern virginia, he got sick and he could not go. And then he said to me, well, why dont you just go . I was always big for my age and people always thought i was older than i appeared, so i showed up and told them the story. And i did not tell them how old i was, however. So, i filled out the form and the part where it says age and date of birth, i left blank. So, i was accepted. It was an oversight on somebodys part. I was accepted and wasnt until two days into the training that somebody asked me again how old was i because i forgot and left it. I said 19. They went, oh, my gosh. So, but it was too late then. So, im 19 but i act 30. And thats how i got selected and remained selected for the freedom ride. So, how long was the training and what was the training . I think im a little bit confused. I thought it was at least two weeks, and i since learned it was probably only a week that we were training. And in that section of northern virginia, even though it was said to be more liberal than the rest of the country, still people were not ready for blacks and whites to be meeting under the same roof and certainly sleeping under the same roof. We had some trouble with the local authorities when they found out what we were doing. Fire inspectors got there. Found all kinds of violations. Police started checking license plates and giving speeding tickets on people coming and going. So, in other words, we got properly harassed by the authorities. But that was that was only about three days prior to our completion of the training. So, we did and none of us got arrested there in northern virginia. How many were training . Was it enough for the first couple of rides or yeah, we had a total of 13 people training. Six whites and seven blacks. And i think i have forgotten i think may 4 is when we left washington, d. C. That particular building, the bus station at new york and seventh avenue, is still there in d. C. And our first stop was richmond, virginia. You must have been excited and scared excited but not scared. I had no idea what i was getting into what we were getting into. Besides, im 19, and at 19 you thrive on either the perception of danger, okay. Youre used to breaking the rules and all of that. So, i had no idea. And especially in richmond, virginia, nothing happened. The people there acted decent. The fbi, of course, knew everything that we were doing. I have since learned of the kinds of dirty tricks that j. Edgar hoover tried to play on us and succeeded in some instance. The next stop was charlotte, North Carolina. Once again, no problems for the time that we were there, at least. The bus stations were integrated and we had no problems. It was when we left charlotte heading into South Carolina, rock hill, South Carolina was the first incidence of violence. John lewis was beaten pretty badly in rock hill, and i was on a bus that was stopped in win spur owe, South Carolina. Jim peck was beaten pretty badly when he got off the bus. I wasnt physically attacked, the Police Arrested me. In the night they took me out to a klan mob. The deal was they did not book me into the station, into theres nothing on the records indicated that i had ever been arrested because the idea was to deliver me to the klan and the klan would kill me. And the police can say we never heard of him, we never arrested him, we have no record of him ever being in rock hill. I was rescued by a black man who had watched the police and who had been assigned by core to if anybody is arrested to report back to core and this type of thing. And he had been watching the police. And when i was ordered out of the police car at gunpoint and i had to run from the mob and he drove up beside me as i was running to tell me to jump in the car, in the back seat, and get down on the floor. And thats how i. Escaped from winsboro, South Carolina. Do you know that man . I dont know his name. I tried all of these years, and im pretty sure hes passed. The city of winsboro is inviting me back. Let by gones be by gones, right, guys . The police chief now is an africanamerican. And so he and the mayor are having a welcome back hank thomas after 54 years. And that will take place probably sometime next month or in april. And thats it. Thats amazing. So, the ride continued it continued. I caught up with the group in atlanta, georgia. And we were warned and advised by dr. King and his folks, you need to stop this ride because youre going into alabama and its a hot bed of klan activity and somebody is liable to get killed. Well, because i was missing for a period of 24 hours, they thought for sure that i had been killed because when they called rock hill to inquire about my whereabouts, the police said we dont know what youre talking about. And that was a very good indication there that they have done something to him. So, when i showed up again and there was great rejoicing that, you know, i didnt think was such a big deal after i. Escape, you know. They were happy to see me. Obviously they had to do some thinking. Should we continue with this ride. And of course my answer was, of course were going to continue. So, we went on into aniston. When we got into the city limits of aniston, the streets were deserted and we turned the corner of the street leading to the bus station and there was the mob gathered at the bus station. And when the bus pulled in, they were yelling and screaming and that the bus driver had brought them the freedom riders and now they were going to take over. They started breaking out the windows and the bus driver had gratuitously for us locked the door as he a scaped from the bus so they couldnt get into the door. And after awhile of beating on the bus and rocking it, Robert Kennedy, ive since learned, had contacted governor patterson and the president of greyhound, that the freedom riders were trapped in aniston, alabama and its only going to be a matter of time before the mob is going to kill them. And so youve got to get them out of there. And so a bus driver got on the bus and tried to drive away. There was a line of cars behind him and cars in front of them that wouldnt let the bus drive any more 15 miles an hour. The tire had been punctured, two of the tires had been cut, and it takes a great deal of whatever it is you have to cut the tire of a bus, big bus. The bus stopped at a Country Store along the highway. Another mob was there. And they continued the job of beating on the bus and they had their children and their wives with them. They had come to see the freedom riders get lynched. A cindiery was thrown through the window. They held the door shut as the bus was burning. They were saying lets burn these northern alive. Lets burn them alive. The flames reached the fuel tank in the bus and it blew out the back of the bus. And everybody on the outside scattered and thats the only way we were able to get off that bus. And then the mob fol