Stephens van deusen westmoreland, but you go by kitsy. Right. Thats right. Maam, could you please spell your last name for the transcriber. Westmoreland. Thank you, maam. Tell me about your childhood. I know you grew up as the daughter of an army officer. Tell me what it was like growing up as an army brat. Well, when i grew up in the army, i would say i grew up as a millionaires child without any money. So i had the most wonderful childhood. I had two brothers and we all were well, my father had been in the cavalry and he was one a wonderful horseman. So both my brother my older brother and i rode from the time i guess i was 3 years old, and my older brother was the same way. What posts were you on when you grew up . Well, i was born at princeton. New jersey. The followers at princeton for six years. And when he married my mother, my mother was a very beautiful lady. And i think most of the princeton students were in love with her because she was so lovely. And then my older brother was born there and i was born there. Okay. And and then where else did you grow up . Princeton and then, oh, dear, fort bragg, fort hamilton, washington, fort sill, oklahoma. Hawaii, back to oklahoma. Wow. Ithaca, new york. And i went to cornell because i got free tuition. And i guess that was it. And i met my husband. Okay. Again. Well, well get to that in a second, maam, but one of the questions i always ask people who lived through world war ii, and im sure youre going to have an interesting take on it being the daughter of an army officer. What do you remember about the day pearl harbor was attacked, december 7th, 1941 . Well, we had all been fox hunting. And we went to be went to a movie and suddenly we were told, and we had just left hawaii, so it was, so really it was just an unbelievable moment in ones life. Sure. What did that event mean to your parents since your dad was in the army . Well, you just didnt know. I mean, my father i know was just very surprised that they we were we were stationed up in schofield and they came over the pass. And i think my father was very surprised. We were surprised. Sure. Sure. Now, both your father and your brothers graduated from west point, so west point has been a part of your life for a long time. Long time. Can you describe your childhood or adolescent impression of what west point was . Well, it was so much a part of your life, really. And my father threatened my brothers, you know, if you dont study, you wont be able to get into west point. And thank god they didnt allow women in my day because i never would have made it, i dont think. But it was just something my brothers were expected okay. To do. Sure. And i think it was fine with my younger brother, but i dont think it was the best thing for my older brother. Okay. I mean, he was a great he loved he played polo here and in this building, as a matter of fact. How many times had you visited west point . Oh, many. When they asked me at the desk, have you ever been here before . I guess the first time i came was, well, as a child and then as a we called them cadet girls in those days. Gosh. I cant remember. I think i was 15 or 16. 15 or 16 . Wow. What did it seem like to you back then. It was wonderful. I stayed with a classmate of my fathers. He and his wife were stationed here. And i was scared to death. And i really they set me up with a cadet that truly wasnt very nice. I didnt like him very much. Okay. Sort of a snob. And you must have gone to dances at the hall then . We did. And you first went to a movie and then of course if you got a coke or anything, you paid for it. There was no bus service, no cars and you learned very quickly in the winter to wear your boots and carry your dancing pumps. Very nice. Very nice. Now, tell me about meeting your husband, general westmoreland. Well, we were we were stationed at fort sill. And i got my school bus, which was an old army army ambulance. Oh, okay. And it was drawn by two mules. How about that. And it stopped in front of wests boq. And he came out, he had just graduated from west point and he was so handsome. So thats when i met him. I was 9. Okay. That was at fort sill . Mmmhmm. But then you met him again later when you were a student at unc . No. No . I met him again in hawaii. Okay. Where i had a very beautiful polynesian dancing teacher. And i thought he was coming over to the club to dance with me. Guess what . He danced with the he showed us how to dance. Mmmhmm. And then of course the war came along. World war ii . Yeah. Okay. And he was in the european theater. He was in went into casablanca, into africa and then sicily and then england and france and germany. Yeah. Okay. So he didnt have time to have many girlfriends. So i was at my grandmothers and i called him up. Okay. And this is after the war . Uhhuh. Okay. And tell me a little bit about that. Well, i i called him i just called fort bragg to see if he were there. I didnt even know he was there or not. And they connected me. He was commanding the 504 then. Right. And the aide said, it wasnt an aide, it was some lieutenant. Anyway, he answered the phone and west answered and he said, kitsy, kitsy van dueser, are you a big girl yet . I said yes. He said, well, lets have dinner tonight. We went to general gavins for dinner. How about that. We were married november i guess four, five months later. Wow. Thats nice. Tell me describe your wedding for in. For me. Well, it was kind of the first wedding in fayetteville, where my grandmother lived, in the town, so to speak. So it was it was more of a reunion for my parents than a wedding for me because everybody came, their old friends and everybody came. And the terrible thing that happened was that father had bought cases of champagne and this and that, and he found when he started to unload it where we were having the reception, it was the womans club and they wouldnt allow oh, my goodness. And it was a great shock. But, anyway, everybody had a good time and then came back to my grandmothers house. Okay. You wore your grandmothers lace, right . No, i wore my great grandmothers on the van deusen side. Oh, my goodness. You said the dress had long sleeves. Long sleeves, very covered and a long train. That must have been beautiful. It was. It was pretty. And was he in his blues . No, he didnt have any blues. Okay. I dont think then. I think my father was. Father was in tails. Wow. But i think west was just in yes, he was just in a regular uniform. Okay. Because it was pretty soon after the war. He had just gotten home. Right. Now, one of the interesting things i noticed when i looked at his timeline was that he was a captain, although during world war ii, he held the rank of colonel, and then when the army downsized they reduced everybody . He became Lieutenant Colonel for just a little while. Right. And then became a currently again. How much did he discuss his world war ii experiences with you . Not too much. Mmmhmm. Not too much. Now, during your early married life, as you already mentioned, at fort bragg, he was commander of the 504th then pretty soon after that he was chief of staff for the 82nd Airborne Division. Describe your experiences at fort bragg. Well, i think i was like a puppy. I just i wagged my tail and walked in a room. I just was i was so young. I was just 20. And i just thought everybody liked me. Yeah. And i was much too young to be a colonels wife. But as i say, i just sort of didnt take it that seriously. He would have been a young colonel, too. And he was young. Because of the war accelerating everybody. Did you enjoy bragg . Oh, yeah. Then during the korean war, your husband commanded the 187th infantry regiment as a brigadier general. Well, he was a colonel when he went over. Okay. Then promoted while he was over there . Yes. Okay. Because somebody, that dreadful man told me that called me once and said that he could not wear the combat infantry badge because generals couldnt wear it, or Something Like that. Right. And west was a colonel when he went to korea. Okay. So he could wear it, i guess. Now, when the korean war happened, where did you live . Were you allowed to stay on post or did you have to go . Oh, no. No, no, no. We were never allowed in those days, you had about two days to get out of quarters and i went home. It didnt dawn on me not to go to my poor mother and father. And so i stayed there. Then i was able to go to japan. Right. And as soon as i got there, then the chinese came in, i guess it was, and the 187th went back to korea. Right. And the 187, while they were in korea, went back and forth from korea to japan several times. Right. During the war. What was japan like . It was beautiful and very ru rustic. I mean, the honey buckets still went up and down the street. In fact, west landed in a field one time that had just been spread. Oh, no. Oh, yes. The fertilizer for the field, right . Oh, yes. And i wouldnt let him in the house. I hosed him off outside. Oh, thats oh, it was bad. And ive talked to a bunch of the veterans from the 187th and they really enjoyed all their jumps, and your husband enjoyed jumping with them . Oh, he loved i think he had 121 or Something Like that. I dont know. What was the Japanese Culture like for you . I loved it. It was, you know, the you had you had gone through the war with, i hate the japanese and all that, but this was before the treaty had been signed so we lived in a great big gorgeous japanese house. For, oh, about six months, i guess, and then we moved to the peace treaty was signed and we moved to wearing pretty bad quarters. Okay. Now, after the korean war, your husband was assigned at various different times at various times to the pentagon and then to Harvard Business school. Yeah. What were these experiences like for your family . Well, west was lucky. You were born. And we were living in a very in park fairfax, which had no air conditioning and tiny little apartment. And we had an older stevie, our oldest child, and then i had rip and west promptly left for harvard. Okay. And he was gone. But i you went up to graduation. Now, was harvard that was an unaccompanied tour for him . Well, he just went up. It was a pretty short tour, like three months . I think it was three or four months, Something Like that. So you were at home with two children . I was at home in this apartment. Then when we came home we moved into a bigger house. And then he worked for max taylor. How was that . It was oh, they were lovely people. And i had margaret. So they were i had two babies at the time. Okay. So i dont think i was a very good wife to i forget what his job was called. I dont know. Mmmhmm. But then after that, after leaving the Northern Virginia area, he general westmoreland commanded the 101st Airborne Division from 58 to 60, then from 60 to 63 he was the superintendant here at west point, from 63 to 64 he commanded 18th airborne corps. It was just a few months of 18th airborne corps. Yes, maam. What were your experiences like at Fort Campbell . Oh, we loved it. It was such a it wasnt a very pretty post at that time. Right. But we thought it was. Mmmhmm. We thought it was perfectly beautiful and rip, and i had the two little children and then our oldest child there is, what, six years difference . Fort campbell was because you had to make your own fun. Right. And i even got the regimental commanders to dress in tutus. Oh, yes. That sounds like a good story. And boots. They didnt jump out of a plane like that, did they . No, but we did a charity thing for and the regimental commanders had their boots on and tutus. Oh, that must have been something. And did a dance. And we made a lot of money. Well, thats good. Thats good. And you lived in the farm house, right . We lived in the log house, and the Commanding Officers house was way off by itself. Right. And i had two Young Children and stevie and they would have been miserable, you know, down there. So we moved up there. Right. And loved it. Mmmhmm. Then lets talk about west point and becoming the superintendant. Tell me what it was like to be the superintendants wife. Well, when i walked in the house, i thought the whole house would fall down and god would say, you are kitsy van deusen, you do not belong here. But i was i had Young Children and i was i was 31 or 32 i think at the time. And i i just had a wonderful time. Mmmhmm. Because i didnt think of the cadets as young little boys, so to speak. They were all gentlemen to me. Mmmhmm. And, i mean, i was not that much older than they were. True. And i think we just had a had a lot of fun together. I went to all of the i went to the swimming and the wrestling and track and, you know, and football, of course. Right. And baseball. I loved it all. The kids would go with me sometimes and sometimes theyd say no, but what were your favorite activities here . You know, i loved wrestling, can you believe it . But i loved swimming and well, i love football, of course and i loved baseball, but i loved i just love sports. Right. And i imagine that you went to all the formal events, right . Yes. So all the different dances and that sort of thing. Not all of them, no. Yeah. Tell me about entertaining at quarters 100. Oh, well, you could seat ten on either side, and so it would be ten 20. The table . At the big table. Right. And we had wonderful people come. I mean, well, just sincerely interesting, fascinating people. And then of course we had the cadets. And that was like a hell dinner. You know, i would pick up my spoon and they would pick up their spoon. And, oh well. We ended up i think we had a good time, but you couldnt drink at that time, of course, and but we served liquor afterwards and that sort of broke the who were some of the most interesting people that came to quarters 100 . Well, of course president johnson came. Was no, president kennedy. Okay. Came. And that was a fun time because i had hired the two ashworth boys and i had given them 25 cents apiece to keep rip, who had, oh, the most wonderful crowd of little boys that just did everything. And i had hired bobby and jeff to keep rip i said i dont care where he is where you go or anything, but just keep him out of sight. Well, of course he ended up, bobby and jeff ended up listening to president kennedys speech firsthand. I mean, you went under didnt the bleachers. Under the and then when we had a garden luncheon, and when everybody was leaving one mary i cant remember one of the people that was very close to kennedy said, oh, kitsy, weve had the best time with the boys. I said, boys . I dont have any boys. She said youve got five boys up in that tree. And it was when the old copper beach was there and all the little boys were up in the tree and they would send a basket down for food. Mmmhmm. And they were filling their basket up and then the basket would come up. And then it would come down again, i gather. I never knew what he was going to do. I never knew. I could control the two girls, but, no, cant control him now. And eisenhower visited as well, correct . Yes, he did. And bradley, too . Bradley. And what were those what were they like . Well, and macarthur. Its something about being the superintendant, i think, that they all if theyve been a cadet, they kind of will macarthur really was very polite and, you know, straight with sure. And so was general eisenhower. I got to know and i didnt know general bradley as well as i knew general i knew general eisenhower and mamey was a very good friend and Jean Macarthur was a lovely friend. You told me earlier they were all very nice ladies and theyd call you and visit and everything. Oh, yes. When west was chief of staff, we had the i turned kind of the third floor into a guest and there was an elevator so people could come and and you frequently had mrs. Eisenhower come visit, right . Well, she loved to come because her sister had a one bedroom and she had secret service. Right. So any time she came to washington, she always stayed with us. Thats nice. Yeah. And she couldnt believe rip had her rose bathroom and she couldnt believe the room. I mean, it was a boys room. Sure. Now, General Macarthur stayed there the night before he gave his duty, honor, country speech. No. No . He came and mhis came up and then there was the review. Then we took what was the ladies room and turned it over to jean and General Macarthur. I forget what i wanted i think just water with no ice or something, you know, like that. And they stayed in there and rested and then he went to the mess and gave and i heard he had rehearsed his speech. Well, jean told me that he had said this, you know, that he had never given the speech, but jean told me he rehearsed on her for many nights. I dont know if thats fair to say because, you know, he did say it was right. Now, your husband commanded in vietnam for over four years. Starting in january of 1964 to june of 1968. Tell me about your experiences during that period when he was deployed. Well, we had, what, a year in with the children in vietnam. 13 months. Okay. And it was oh, dear. They, you know, they went to school on a early in the morning on a school bus with the chicken wire so grenades couldnt be thrown in. Wow. And there was an mp in the front, wasnt there . And an mp in the back. And this was not my children, it was everybodys children that went to school and then when they got to school we had only vietnamese guards, but the hospital and the school had mps. But we had vietnamese guards. And so did west. What was it like living in vietnam . Well, you know, if you have children, you understand that youre really kind of scared most of the time. Sure. If you want to know the truth. But youre not going to show your children that youre scared. And they were the children there were absolutely wonderful. Mmmhmm. I mean, they protected one another, they we had movies at the house and they would you all were there wasnt really a bad cookie that i know of in the crowd, and they had you all had a really good time. Mmmhmm. Unfortunately, they saw the boys saw the great escape, and they started digging a tunnel in our house. And they that was your main and west went down in it and came out dead white. Because it was some tunnel. Wow. And i heard that he had ordered some wood after that, right . To shore it up. To kind of hold it up. Oh, my goodness. And they all had sores because, oh, dear. Now, how was the vietnamese culture . Its lovely. They are a beautiful people. And i my main work was red cross and i did i really worked every almost every day i worked in the vietnamese hospital. Mmmhmm. And the o hospital and then i went to nha trang once a week. Okay. To do Red Cross Work. All right. Now, would you go by ground convoy or did you fly . No, i flew. In a huey or . Well, one time i was in a huey and we got shot at, but mostly i went in an airplane. Okay. All right. Now how about your daughters i