Transcripts For CSPAN3 Decision To End Deferred Action For C

The president kennedy documents. That is going to be live on washington journal. Join the discussion. Earlier this month, the ju dir jere Committee Held a committee on ending the deferred childhood act, known as daca and they are to come up with a more legal approach to come up by the end of the year. Welcome, everybody. Particularly to our witnesses on both panels, because i know that you put a lot of work into the preparation. We thank everybody for their participation, for their help. Before i give my Opening Statement for the topic of our hearing, i think that we all take a moment yesterday and today and for a long time in the future, but i do it now on behalf of the committee to recognize the victims of the Las Vegas Shooting and their loved ones. As you are aware, yesterday more than 59 americans lost their lives and more than 500 were injured. The carnage occurred, that occurred yesterday is truly heartbreaking. We are here today to consider how to address the issue created by president obamas unconstitutional executive action referred to as the deferreded action for childhood arrivals. We will all probably use the acronym daca. In september, President Trump gave six months to congress to act in a ak kccoraccordanc eshe constitution in reference to thousands of unauthorized immigrants. And we have been debating this for 16 year, and what type of legal status would be given to any immigrants brought here as children should have. Since 2001, the successive congresses have considered this question, and they did not address it in both 07 and 2013. Congress considered what we call comprehensive Immigration Reform. That would have legalized millions of unauthorized individuals, and however, these effort efforts have failed. The reason is simple, remembering what happened in 1986, the American People recognize that legalization without enforcement and a way to recognize a demand for chief labor would only continue a cycle for unauthorized immigration. That is why for Years Congress and the bipartisan fashion Work Together to strengthen the nations Border Security, and interior enforcement, but they have struggled to address some of the thornest elements of immigration. Nothing better highlights Congress Bipartisan commitment to prevent ilLegal Immigration than the secure fence act that. Bill authorized the government to construct 700 miles of fensing along the border. It passed with overwhelming bipartisan support including from then senators obama, biden, clinton and even our Ranking Member ms. Feinstein. As president george w. Bush said, that bill was quote an important step toward Immigration Reform, end quote. Why . Because the secured fence act was an effort to restore Peoples Trust in the integrity of the Law Enforcement system by taking the real steps to have Border Security. As recently as 2010, both democrats and republicans agreed that the only constitutional action that could be taken was for congress to act. President obama, himself, summed it up best when he said that he quote was not a king, end of quote, and was, quote, again, obliged to execute the law, and cant just make the laws himself, end of quote. To paraphrase, novelist t. H. Whi white, a king president obama was not, but a king he decided to be. In june of 2012, he decided to bipas the constitution, and use his words pen and phone to create daca, a largescaled executive action to authorize legal immigrants. And not only did he sustain deportation, but he allowed the rescipients to apply for work permit. They did in hundreds of thousands. Since 2012, the citizenship, and the Immigration Services has issued more than 710 work permits to daca residents. Grant ing ting the permits was r violation of the law and the constitution. From the beginning, his president obamas executive a action was riddled with numerous loopholes that allowed fraud and abuse. Since 2012, victims and whistleblowers have contacted me to expose how even criminal elements benefitted from the program. Thanks to the courage of these whistle bl whistleblowers and victims, i along with several of my colleagues sent over a dozen letters to the Obama Administration about the programs vulnerability to exploitation and abuse. In one such case, a daca recipient was granted a Work Authorization despite being under investigation by Homeland Security investigation for child exploitation. After receiving the work permit, the beneficiary was hired by a summer camp in california where he was eventually arrested for the distributing and possessing hundreds of pages of child pornography and for molesting a child in cair, and to be considered quote, unquote potentially egregious Public Safety end of quote, months before his arrest, he was nonetheless give anne work permit. Whistleblowers also reported how once eligible beneficiaries could continue employment once the daca valid, after benefits are discontinued, a recipient could work until the work document itself expired unless employer is aware of the termination. But in spite of this clear abuse of power and the multiple examples of frautd in the program, we were at least comforted that president obamas assurances that, quote unquote, this is not well, quote, this is not amnesty, this is not a path to citizenship, end of quote. Even this assurance was untrue. Preliminary data released to my office from citizenship and Immigration Services indicates that by the time the Trump Administration made its announcement on daca, almost 40,000 beneficiaries had been adjusted to lawful permanent resident status and were on a path to citizenship. Its clear that from the beginning, president obama programmed while not ill intentioned, never operated in the way it was supposed to. First of all, the program created a false sense of hope about and among daca beneficiaries. Thousands of them in reliance on president obamas ill conceived pen and phone promises, started working jobs, pursuing education, making steps toward productive contribution to american society, and after all is said and done, thats all at risk. On september 5th, this year, attorney general sessions announced the president had decided to rescind the obama program. In reaching this decision, general sessions acknowledged that what many of us have known all along, that daca was plain and simple an unconstitutional exercise authority by the executive branch. We all have empathy for young people who came here through no fault of their own, and for many of them, america is the only country they know. And the administration isnt without empathy. And were negotiating the fact that almost 700,000 young people relied on false promises of the Previous Administration, this administration didnt immediately terminate the program. Instead, they created a sixmonth winddown and allowed anyone who currently has daca to keep their Work Authorization until two years after daca status expires. This wind down is simple. To get this congress a chance to adopt a constitutional longterm solution. So here we are today. Almost a month after the administrations announcement. And now is the time to start considering a path towards consensus in earnest. First and foremost, any potential daca agreement has to include robust Border Security and by that, i dont mean a wall. Of course, tactical infrastructure like fencing is a part of the answer. But Border Security is more than that. Boa Border Security is an all of the above approach, including fencing, technology, funding for more Law Enforcement personnel and equipment, changes to substantive laws so the catch and release and other misguided policies are ended, and we need to require that the administration finally complete the biometric entry and exit system that congress has continually demanded and allocated money for, for over the last 15 years. Not anything of consequence being done. Second, and equally as important, for robust Border Security, weve got to make sure that any deal includes meaningful interior enforcement. The simplest, most common sense may be to insure we eliminate the root causes of undocumented immigration to make it the everify system mandatory for all employers. This system helped employers confirm that job applicants are here legally. I know this is a controversial and difficult step and some big corporate interests are going to object, but we know that jobs are the number one reason people come here. But everify isnt the only answer. We also need to make it easier for Law Enforcement to deport gang members, dangerous felons, sex offenders, and human traffickers. We need to fix the decision that requires us to release dangerous criminal elements. Finally, we need to take a hard look at our asylum and Immigration Court backlog and take steps to insure speedy deportation for those who deserve it while preserving lawful claims for those truly in need. It would be a dereliction of our duty if we failed to take steps to end at least some of the ilLegal Immigration that we know as we know it, and kick the can down the road so the future congresses have to address this very serious problem again in another 15 years. Im confident that if everybody is reasonable, we can reach a solution. And so we are here for this hearing today and the first panel is composed to government witnesses. And i hope they will be able to provide some insight into what reasons the Trump Administration thinks we should take to secure the border and the homeland in the process of helping daca kids. I know the administrations currently engaged in ongoing litigation and witnesses may be restrictioned in some questions they can answer. I can appreciate that and i hope my colleagues will do the same. However, to the extent questions can be answered and guidance can be given, we should expect forthrightness. And then ill talk about the second panel later on. Now, senator feinstein. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Thank you for your opening comments. On october 1st and what happened in las vegas, and i think this is one of the most difficult kinds of problems that we have to reconcile, but i really do believe we have to find a solution to whats happening, so i thank you for your comment and your opening. I would like to begin by welcoming one of our witnesses. Her name is denise rojas. Shes a daca recipient, and she has an incredible story to share with this committee. Im so proud of her and her accomplishments. Shes here from mt. Sinai medical school in new york city. And i just learned that the dean of the school is also here to witness the hearing. And i believe his name is dr. Muller, so i want to say welcome to him. I also want to point out that a fox news poll has shown that 83 support the pathway to citizenship for Illegal Immigrants. And particularly, overwhelming majorities favor granting work permits. 86 , 12 opposed. And u. S. Citizenship, 79 , 19 opposed. To Illegal Immigrants under the age of 30 brought here as children provided they pass a background check. This is higher than anything i have seen on health care or tax reform. And i hope it means something to the men and women of this body. The last nine months must have been a roller coaster of uncertainty and fear for young denise rojas and the rest of these young people. There are anywhere from 699,000 to 800,000 enrolled in the daca program who came to america at a very young age through no choice of their own. I do want to point out and commend senator durbin. He produced a bill in comprehensive Immigration Reform in 2013 which i voted for in the committee and on the floor. And it was a very thorough hearing. And i believe there were no amendments to daca. It was one of the things that we were all very proud of. He has been joined by senator graham on the republican side now to forge a bipartisan partnership to get this done, and i also want to thank senator graham for your leadership and help on this key and important issue. The typical person on daca came to this country at 6 years of age. Obviously, through no will of their own, as our chairman has just pointed out. So the United States is really the only home that they know. And around a third of these live in my state of california. So this program is particularly important for me and for my state, where it enjoys very strong support. They contribute to our economy in so many ways. And we know that 95 of Daca Recipients are working or are in school. They work as doctors, engineers, and lawyers. They study in high school and college. Theyre teachers in highneed schools and are serving in the military. They were on the front lines, helping their Community Members during recent floods and hurricanes. And some are helping their communities combat todays opioid epidemic. They have become a part of american society, and efforts to expel them, i believe, are unconscionable. Its not just california, but Daca Recipients came out of the shadows, and they contribute to communities all across this country. These young people have put their trust in the federal government, and they have done everything asked of them. Theyre counting on us to put aside partisanship and find a solution to this problem. Theyre looking to us to do whats right, and so by this poll and others, are the American People. Id like to quickly share the story of just one d. R. E. A. M. Er i met in august. Deiony sanchez. Deiony was brought to this country when she was just 1. Today, she lives in east oakland. Shes a 23yearold graduate from uc santa cruz, with a degree in psychology. After nearly 23 years in this country, her parents were recently deported. They had no criminal records. They paid their taxes. And they owned their home. Where i met the family. Her mom worked as an oncology nurse at highland hospital, and her dad worked as a truck driver. They paid their taxes. Now, deiony is left a daca recipient, as the major support and caregiver for her two younger u. S. Citizen sisters, may lynn and elizabeth, and shes facing the uncertainty that she, too, could lose protection and be deported. Every day, we fail to act means one more day that hundreds of thousands of d. R. E. A. M. Ers like her are forced to live with this cloud hanging over them. No family in america should be forced to face this fear and uncertainty at the hands of their own government. So i hope my colleagues will join me in supporting senators graham and durbin in passing the d. R. E. A. M. Act. These youth should not be political footballs. They shouldnt be asked to choose between their future and their families. And they should have the certainty of permanent immigration status. I have received literally hundreds of letters in support of the d. R. E. A. M. Act, which i ask mr. Chairman be inserted in the record. Without objection, it will be inserted. Thank you. I also want to take a moment to recognize members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus who are in attendance today. Mr. Chairman, i appreciate the time, and i thank you. We have two members that lead the subcommittee for republican and democrats. Normally, they dont give Opening Statements, but im going to ask senator cornyn and senator durbin to do that accordingly, if theyre ready. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Today, were holden an important issue on an issue that has been a subject of intense debate for years. What should we do with those who are illegally brought to the United States at children but currently have no legal status. As we all know, in 2012, the Obama Administration created a program through the executive order referred to as daca, deferred action for childhood arrivals. If you arrived in the United States before age 16 and met certain criteria, you could receive deferred action. Deferred action, of course, is a form of prosecutorial discretion that temporarily protects a person from removal and authorized the individual to work. While the daca program was designed to help those who were brought here illegally, it was not created lawfully. I remember sitting at the white house with some other senators and congressmen imploring the president after the election in 2012 not to do this unilaterally, but he decided to proceed anyway. On september 5th, President Trump announced he was phasing out the daca program by march 5th, 2018. And i think President Trump was right to do so. This is a responsibility of the Congress Working with the president , and we will embrace that responsibility. By making this announcement, the president did what should have been done long ago. He put the decision in the hands of congress to find a solution for Daca Recipients. And im confident that working together we can do so. Today, approximately 800,000 individuals have benefitted from daca. The time is right for congress to develop a solution for these young adults who were brought to the Committee Held<\/a> a committee on ending the deferred childhood act, known as daca and they are to come up with a more legal approach to come up by the end of the year. Welcome, everybody. Particularly to our witnesses on both panels, because i know that you put a lot of work into the preparation. We thank everybody for their participation, for their help. Before i give my Opening Statement<\/a> for the topic of our hearing, i think that we all take a moment yesterday and today and for a long time in the future, but i do it now on behalf of the committee to recognize the victims of the Las Vegas Shooting<\/a> and their loved ones. As you are aware, yesterday more than 59 americans lost their lives and more than 500 were injured. The carnage occurred, that occurred yesterday is truly heartbreaking. We are here today to consider how to address the issue created by president obamas unconstitutional executive action referred to as the deferreded action for childhood arrivals. We will all probably use the acronym daca. In september, President Trump<\/a> gave six months to congress to act in a ak kccoraccordanc eshe constitution in reference to thousands of unauthorized immigrants. And we have been debating this for 16 year, and what type of legal status would be given to any immigrants brought here as children should have. Since 2001, the successive congresses have considered this question, and they did not address it in both 07 and 2013. Congress considered what we call comprehensive Immigration Reform<\/a>. That would have legalized millions of unauthorized individuals, and however, these effort efforts have failed. The reason is simple, remembering what happened in 1986, the American People<\/a> recognize that legalization without enforcement and a way to recognize a demand for chief labor would only continue a cycle for unauthorized immigration. That is why for Years Congress<\/a> and the bipartisan fashion Work Together<\/a> to strengthen the nations Border Security<\/a>, and interior enforcement, but they have struggled to address some of the thornest elements of immigration. Nothing better highlights Congress Bipartisan<\/a> commitment to prevent ilLegal Immigration<\/a> than the secure fence act that. Bill authorized the government to construct 700 miles of fensing along the border. It passed with overwhelming bipartisan support including from then senators obama, biden, clinton and even our Ranking Member<\/a> ms. Feinstein. As president george w. Bush said, that bill was quote an important step toward Immigration Reform<\/a>, end quote. Why . Because the secured fence act was an effort to restore Peoples Trust<\/a> in the integrity of the Law Enforcement<\/a> system by taking the real steps to have Border Security<\/a>. As recently as 2010, both democrats and republicans agreed that the only constitutional action that could be taken was for congress to act. President obama, himself, summed it up best when he said that he quote was not a king, end of quote, and was, quote, again, obliged to execute the law, and cant just make the laws himself, end of quote. To paraphrase, novelist t. H. Whi white, a king president obama was not, but a king he decided to be. In june of 2012, he decided to bipas the constitution, and use his words pen and phone to create daca, a largescaled executive action to authorize legal immigrants. And not only did he sustain deportation, but he allowed the rescipients to apply for work permit. They did in hundreds of thousands. Since 2012, the citizenship, and the Immigration Services<\/a> has issued more than 710 work permits to daca residents. Grant ing ting the permits was r violation of the law and the constitution. From the beginning, his president obamas executive a action was riddled with numerous loopholes that allowed fraud and abuse. Since 2012, victims and whistleblowers have contacted me to expose how even criminal elements benefitted from the program. Thanks to the courage of these whistle bl whistleblowers and victims, i along with several of my colleagues sent over a dozen letters to the Obama Administration<\/a> about the programs vulnerability to exploitation and abuse. In one such case, a daca recipient was granted a Work Authorization<\/a> despite being under investigation by Homeland Security<\/a> investigation for child exploitation. After receiving the work permit, the beneficiary was hired by a summer camp in california where he was eventually arrested for the distributing and possessing hundreds of pages of child pornography and for molesting a child in cair, and to be considered quote, unquote potentially egregious Public Safety<\/a> end of quote, months before his arrest, he was nonetheless give anne work permit. Whistleblowers also reported how once eligible beneficiaries could continue employment once the daca valid, after benefits are discontinued, a recipient could work until the work document itself expired unless employer is aware of the termination. But in spite of this clear abuse of power and the multiple examples of frautd in the program, we were at least comforted that president obamas assurances that, quote unquote, this is not well, quote, this is not amnesty, this is not a path to citizenship, end of quote. Even this assurance was untrue. Preliminary data released to my office from citizenship and Immigration Services<\/a> indicates that by the time the Trump Administration<\/a> made its announcement on daca, almost 40,000 beneficiaries had been adjusted to lawful permanent resident status and were on a path to citizenship. Its clear that from the beginning, president obama programmed while not ill intentioned, never operated in the way it was supposed to. First of all, the program created a false sense of hope about and among daca beneficiaries. Thousands of them in reliance on president obamas ill conceived pen and phone promises, started working jobs, pursuing education, making steps toward productive contribution to american society, and after all is said and done, thats all at risk. On september 5th, this year, attorney general sessions announced the president had decided to rescind the obama program. In reaching this decision, general sessions acknowledged that what many of us have known all along, that daca was plain and simple an unconstitutional exercise authority by the executive branch. We all have empathy for young people who came here through no fault of their own, and for many of them, america is the only country they know. And the administration isnt without empathy. And were negotiating the fact that almost 700,000 young people relied on false promises of the Previous Administration<\/a>, this administration didnt immediately terminate the program. Instead, they created a sixmonth winddown and allowed anyone who currently has daca to keep their Work Authorization<\/a> until two years after daca status expires. This wind down is simple. To get this congress a chance to adopt a constitutional longterm solution. So here we are today. Almost a month after the administrations announcement. And now is the time to start considering a path towards consensus in earnest. First and foremost, any potential daca agreement has to include robust Border Security<\/a> and by that, i dont mean a wall. Of course, tactical infrastructure like fencing is a part of the answer. But Border Security<\/a> is more than that. Boa Border Security<\/a> is an all of the above approach, including fencing, technology, funding for more Law Enforcement<\/a> personnel and equipment, changes to substantive laws so the catch and release and other misguided policies are ended, and we need to require that the administration finally complete the biometric entry and exit system that congress has continually demanded and allocated money for, for over the last 15 years. Not anything of consequence being done. Second, and equally as important, for robust Border Security<\/a>, weve got to make sure that any deal includes meaningful interior enforcement. The simplest, most common sense may be to insure we eliminate the root causes of undocumented immigration to make it the everify system mandatory for all employers. This system helped employers confirm that job applicants are here legally. I know this is a controversial and difficult step and some big corporate interests are going to object, but we know that jobs are the number one reason people come here. But everify isnt the only answer. We also need to make it easier for Law Enforcement<\/a> to deport gang members, dangerous felons, sex offenders, and human traffickers. We need to fix the decision that requires us to release dangerous criminal elements. Finally, we need to take a hard look at our asylum and Immigration Court<\/a> backlog and take steps to insure speedy deportation for those who deserve it while preserving lawful claims for those truly in need. It would be a dereliction of our duty if we failed to take steps to end at least some of the ilLegal Immigration<\/a> that we know as we know it, and kick the can down the road so the future congresses have to address this very serious problem again in another 15 years. Im confident that if everybody is reasonable, we can reach a solution. And so we are here for this hearing today and the first panel is composed to government witnesses. And i hope they will be able to provide some insight into what reasons the Trump Administration<\/a> thinks we should take to secure the border and the homeland in the process of helping daca kids. I know the administrations currently engaged in ongoing litigation and witnesses may be restrictioned in some questions they can answer. I can appreciate that and i hope my colleagues will do the same. However, to the extent questions can be answered and guidance can be given, we should expect forthrightness. And then ill talk about the second panel later on. Now, senator feinstein. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Thank you for your opening comments. On october 1st and what happened in las vegas, and i think this is one of the most difficult kinds of problems that we have to reconcile, but i really do believe we have to find a solution to whats happening, so i thank you for your comment and your opening. I would like to begin by welcoming one of our witnesses. Her name is denise rojas. Shes a daca recipient, and she has an incredible story to share with this committee. Im so proud of her and her accomplishments. Shes here from mt. Sinai medical school in new york city. And i just learned that the dean of the school is also here to witness the hearing. And i believe his name is dr. Muller, so i want to say welcome to him. I also want to point out that a fox news poll has shown that 83 support the pathway to citizenship for Illegal Immigrants<\/a>. And particularly, overwhelming majorities favor granting work permits. 86 , 12 opposed. And u. S. Citizenship, 79 , 19 opposed. To Illegal Immigrants<\/a> under the age of 30 brought here as children provided they pass a background check. This is higher than anything i have seen on health care or tax reform. And i hope it means something to the men and women of this body. The last nine months must have been a roller coaster of uncertainty and fear for young denise rojas and the rest of these young people. There are anywhere from 699,000 to 800,000 enrolled in the daca program who came to america at a very young age through no choice of their own. I do want to point out and commend senator durbin. He produced a bill in comprehensive Immigration Reform<\/a> in 2013 which i voted for in the committee and on the floor. And it was a very thorough hearing. And i believe there were no amendments to daca. It was one of the things that we were all very proud of. He has been joined by senator graham on the republican side now to forge a bipartisan partnership to get this done, and i also want to thank senator graham for your leadership and help on this key and important issue. The typical person on daca came to this country at 6 years of age. Obviously, through no will of their own, as our chairman has just pointed out. So the United States<\/a> is really the only home that they know. And around a third of these live in my state of california. So this program is particularly important for me and for my state, where it enjoys very strong support. They contribute to our economy in so many ways. And we know that 95 of Daca Recipients<\/a> are working or are in school. They work as doctors, engineers, and lawyers. They study in high school and college. Theyre teachers in highneed schools and are serving in the military. They were on the front lines, helping their Community Members<\/a> during recent floods and hurricanes. And some are helping their communities combat todays opioid epidemic. They have become a part of american society, and efforts to expel them, i believe, are unconscionable. Its not just california, but Daca Recipients<\/a> came out of the shadows, and they contribute to communities all across this country. These young people have put their trust in the federal government, and they have done everything asked of them. Theyre counting on us to put aside partisanship and find a solution to this problem. Theyre looking to us to do whats right, and so by this poll and others, are the American People<\/a>. Id like to quickly share the story of just one d. R. E. A. M. Er i met in august. Deiony sanchez. Deiony was brought to this country when she was just 1. Today, she lives in east oakland. Shes a 23yearold graduate from uc santa cruz, with a degree in psychology. After nearly 23 years in this country, her parents were recently deported. They had no criminal records. They paid their taxes. And they owned their home. Where i met the family. Her mom worked as an oncology nurse at highland hospital, and her dad worked as a truck driver. They paid their taxes. Now, deiony is left a daca recipient, as the major support and caregiver for her two younger u. S. Citizen sisters, may lynn and elizabeth, and shes facing the uncertainty that she, too, could lose protection and be deported. Every day, we fail to act means one more day that hundreds of thousands of d. R. E. A. M. Ers like her are forced to live with this cloud hanging over them. No family in america should be forced to face this fear and uncertainty at the hands of their own government. So i hope my colleagues will join me in supporting senators graham and durbin in passing the d. R. E. A. M. Act. These youth should not be political footballs. They shouldnt be asked to choose between their future and their families. And they should have the certainty of permanent immigration status. I have received literally hundreds of letters in support of the d. R. E. A. M. Act, which i ask mr. Chairman be inserted in the record. Without objection, it will be inserted. Thank you. I also want to take a moment to recognize members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus<\/a> who are in attendance today. Mr. Chairman, i appreciate the time, and i thank you. We have two members that lead the subcommittee for republican and democrats. Normally, they dont give Opening Statement<\/a>s, but im going to ask senator cornyn and senator durbin to do that accordingly, if theyre ready. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Today, were holden an important issue on an issue that has been a subject of intense debate for years. What should we do with those who are illegally brought to the United States<\/a> at children but currently have no legal status. As we all know, in 2012, the Obama Administration<\/a> created a program through the executive order referred to as daca, deferred action for childhood arrivals. If you arrived in the United States<\/a> before age 16 and met certain criteria, you could receive deferred action. Deferred action, of course, is a form of prosecutorial discretion that temporarily protects a person from removal and authorized the individual to work. While the daca program was designed to help those who were brought here illegally, it was not created lawfully. I remember sitting at the white house with some other senators and congressmen imploring the president after the election in 2012 not to do this unilaterally, but he decided to proceed anyway. On september 5th, President Trump<\/a> announced he was phasing out the daca program by march 5th, 2018. And i think President Trump<\/a> was right to do so. This is a responsibility of the Congress Working<\/a> with the president , and we will embrace that responsibility. By making this announcement, the president did what should have been done long ago. He put the decision in the hands of congress to find a solution for Daca Recipients<\/a>. And im confident that working together we can do so. Today, approximately 800,000 individuals have benefitted from daca. The time is right for congress to develop a solution for these young adults who were brought to the United States<\/a> illegally by their parents. The very reason they have no legal status is because the actions of others, not their actions. And i believe they should not be penalized for being brought here illegally through no fault of their own. Creating a legislative fix is the right thing to do, but theres a big caveat. Before we provide legal status to these young people, we must reassure and actually regain the Public Confidence<\/a> that were serious when it comes to enforcing the law and securing our borders. Weve tried over the past few years to pass comprehensive Immigration Reform<\/a> and failed spectacularly every time. I dont think were capable of passing a comprehensive immigration bill, so our efforts to deal with this particular population and deal with Border Security<\/a> and interior enforcement, i think, should not make that same mistake again if were going to make any progress. I believe the better approach is an iterative one. Step by step. We start by enacting real Border Security<\/a> measures that work and build on that. Thats the first step, not the last step. We all believe that our immigration system is flawed and needs to be improved. But before we can gain the publics confidence that were actually capable of doing that in a sensible sort of way, i think we need to regain their trust by doing what i just described. One reason every Immigration Reform<\/a> bill has failed in the past is because the American People<\/a> simply dont trust us to fix the problem. They could easily point to 1986 as a classic example of a Program Giving<\/a> those here illegally status that was supposed to be backed up by an enforcement regime which never occurred. It increased the incentive for ilLegal Immigration<\/a> instead. In addition, the lax enforcement of the immigration laws by Prior Administration<\/a>s has put us back in the very Situation Congress<\/a> tried to fix in 1986. We need to put in force measures that will get the job done and create real consequences for those who continue to flout our immigration laws. Thats why working together with senator tillis, johnson, barrasso, and inhofe in the senate, we introduced a bill called building americas trust action. This would require the completion and maintenance of tactical infrastructure across the full southern boarder to achieve operational control and Situational Awareness<\/a> of every sector. It would also increase the number of Border Patrol<\/a> and Immigration Enforcement<\/a> agents across the country while increasing our authority to apprehend, detain, and deportment dangerous criminals and those who violate our immigration laws with impunity. I stand ready to work with all of our colleagues on both sides of the aisle to get such a Border Security<\/a> enforcement bill passed through both houses and to the president s desk before march 2018. I believe we can get it done, and if theyre willing to work with us on real Border Security<\/a> and interior enforcement measures to stop ilLegal Immigration<\/a>, we can then as part of that process address the daca problem. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator durbin. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Thanks for this hearing. It was 16 years ago that my office in chicago was contacted by a representative of the merit Music Program<\/a>. Its a Great Program<\/a> in chicago. A lady left a lot of money and said take this money and use it to train students in the public schools, teach them music and give them musical instruments. And the merit Music Program<\/a> called and said we have this amazing young woman, named theresa lee, and she started on the piano. And turned out to be a prodigy. So good that she has now been accepted at the major music schools across the country. Her problem is, she is a korean immigrant to the United States<\/a>, brought here at the age of 2. Her parents didnt file the necessary papers for her to stay. She is undocumented. So they asked us to take a look at her case and see if we could help her. We checked the law, and the law was very clear. Theresa, then about 17 or 18 years old, under our law, had to leave the United States<\/a> for ten years and petition to come back in to the United States<\/a>. And i thought to myself, that is not fair. Shes done nothing wrong. Her parents were trying to help the family. They didnt file the paper. She was 2 years old, for go goodness sakes. So i sat down and started working on the d. R. E. A. M. Act, 16 years ago. This was legislation, Bipartisan Legislation<\/a>, to give young people like theresa lee a path to citizenship when they came to the United States<\/a> only as children. I have introduced the most recent version of it with my friend and colleague senator Lindsey Graham<\/a> on a bipartisan basis as well. Let me tell you the end of the story on theresa because its a pretty good one. She went on to obtain her bachelors and masters degree from a Manhattan School<\/a> of music, and is currently pursuing her doctorate. Shes played in carnegie hall. Shes an amazing young woman, now a mother. Married, and living in the new york area. And i would like if the committee would allow me to introduce to you the first d. R. E. A. M. Er, theresa lee. Would you please stand . [ applause ] thank you. In april 2010, after years of trying to pass the d. R. E. A. M. Act, i sent a letter to president obama which was cosigned by senator dick luger, republican from indiana. We asked president obama to protect the d. R. E. A. M. Ers from deportation. The following year, we held the first hearing on the d. R. E. A. M. Act right in this room. Ill never forget it, the room was packed with hundreds of d. R. E. A. M. Ers who risked deportation to travel here from around the country to appeal to congress. And to the executive branch. In june 2012, president obama used his executive thoerauthori establish daca, deferring the deportation of d. R. E. A. M. Ers and allowing them to work on a temporary renewable basis, only after they had paid the filing fee or processing and had gone through a comprehensive immigration pardon me, criminal background check and also made pledges that they would pay their taxes and everything required of citizens in the United States<\/a>. Well, because of daca, we now have almost 800,000 d. R. E. A. M. Ers contributing to our country. As teachers, nurses, engineers, First Responders<\/a>, Service Members<\/a> across the board. To those who dismiss daca as president ial overreach, take the time to meet the d. R. E. A. M. Er christina velazquez. Christina, are you here . Thank you for joining us. Let me tell you about her. She was 6 years old when she came to the u. S. From venezuela. Now a student at georgetown, has received the president s volunteer Service Award<\/a> two years in a row. Shes dedicated two undergraduate summers and a full school year volunteering as a teacher. When she graduates from georgetown in the summer, shell start working for teach for america, which already has 190 Daca Recipients<\/a> teaching kids across the United States<\/a> in many Challenging School<\/a> districts. There are so many others in the room, i could spend my time introducing them, but i know we want to get on to the hearing. I just want to say this about the people i have introduced and the others who are here. America needs to know that the clock is ticking on their lives. Consider this. Beginning on march 5th, 2018, every work day for the following two years, every work day, approximately 1400 d. R. E. A. M. Ers will lose their work permits and be subject to deportation. Every work day. Teachers will be forced to leave their students. Nurses forced to leave their patients. First responders, to leave their post. Medical students to leave medical school. And soldiers who have volunteered to risk their lives for america will be forced to leave the army. This isnt just a looming humanitarian crisis. It is an economic component. These d. R. E. A. M. Ers, those who are qualified through daca, are working hard and going to school. Theyre an important part of our economy. America gets this. As senator feinstein said earlier, it was fox news who brought us the poll that said 83 of americans support a path to citizenship for d. R. E. A. M. Ers. Including 63 of those who voted for President Trump<\/a>. We need to pass the d. R. E. A. M. Act, and thats what senator graham and i are tried to do. I want to say a kind word about the succeed act introduced by tillis, lankford, and hatch. This bill demonstrates we do have the beginning of broad bipartisan support in the senate to finally solve this issue. We dont agree on every aspect between the two bills, but were at least in common conversation with the same goal in mind. Id like to also say a word about the d. R. E. A. M. Act senator graham and i introduced in comparison to the succeed act. Would you stand so people can see what you look like . Tollue has been my friend for many years. Shes brought to the United States<\/a> from nigeria as a child. Shes lived here for more than 20 years. She graduated from Washington Lee University<\/a> with a degree in chemical engineering. Currently serves on the Global Agenda Council<\/a> on migration and was recognized at the World Economic<\/a> forum as one of 15 women changing the world. Tollue, unfortunately, doesnt qualify under the succeed act to become part of americas future legally. It wont offer her the protection from deportation to nigeria where she hasnt lived since she was a child. And finally, on negotiations, senator cornyn, i couldnt agree with you more. If we can sit down and come up with a reasonable list of Border Security<\/a> provisions that will give us the peace of mind and assurance that we are doing our level best to stop those who shouldnt be coming in the United States<\/a> from coming here, ill join you in that effort. I cant subscribe to a litany of possibilities here. There are some who saved up every idea they have on immigration and want to slap it on the d. R. E. A. M. Act. We cant do that either. Lets try to find reasonable compromise that solves this problem. When we do, america will be a better nation. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator durbin, i thank you for your statement about finding a reasonable compromise. I believe we can, and we should. Before i introduce the government witnesses, i want to address the issue of their prepared testimony. Im aware that several of my colleagues are frustrated the committee didnt receive testimony until late last night. While i understand their frustration, i want to point out that the late submission are relatively normal and sadly so, i say that. Both republican and democrat administrations regularly struggle with timely submission of testimony, and while annoying, we rarely make it an issue. I hope that the same courtesy we have shown past administrations will be shown here. Also, i want to address the lack of written testimony submitted by the department of justice. I understand justice didnt submit testimony because they were unable to have it cleared in time for this hearing. While frustrating, i appreciate the fact that justice is here today and willing to give oral testimony to the committee because over the weekend, i and my staff were just bombarded with all sorts of phone calls from all over the country, not even to have this hearing, but this important issue must go ahead. Mr. Doherty has tremendous amount of experience in the field of immigration. He currently serves as the assistant secretary for border immigration and trade policy at the department of Homeland Security<\/a>s office of strategy, policy, and plans. He previously worked at dhs for u. S. Citizenship and Immigration Services<\/a>, and is the acting director of Senior Policy Adviser<\/a> for immigration with border and transportation security directorate. Mr. Doherty worked for us in the congress when he was a legislative counsel to senator jon kyl and as a staff member with the subcommittee on terrorism, technology, and Homeland Security<\/a> within our own judiciary committee. James is currently acting director of the u. S. Citizenship and Immigration Services<\/a>. Hes also a deputy director. Prior to becoming deputy director, he served as the deputy associate director overseeing five u. S. Citizenship and Immigration Service<\/a> centers that processed over 4 million applications annually. Prior to that, he was chief of the u. S. Cis office of legislative affairs. He has held positions within the department of Homeland Security<\/a> from its inception. His work has ranged from the dhs office of General Council<\/a> to Homeland Security<\/a> Field Office Director<\/a> in havana, cuba. Chad redler is the current acting assistant attorney general in the department of justice civil division. In this role, he oversees the largest Litigation Division<\/a> in the department of justice. Prior to joining the department, he handled complex civil and criminal litigation as a partner with jones day. In addition to his federal service, mr. Redler has served in all three branches of the ohio government in an appointed capacity. Well start with mr. Doherty, and all of you have five minutes. Youll probably have a longer statement you want to put in the record, and we accept that for the record. So proceed. Thank you, chairman. Chairman grassley, Ranking Member<\/a> feinstein, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear today to discuss actions being taken by the department of Homeland Security<\/a> to end the deferred action for childhood arrivals policy. Also known as daca. As the committee well knows, the position of individuals brought to the United States<\/a> as minors and who lack immigration status has been the subject of congressional and public concern for well over a decade. Despite that concern and despite numerous efforts at Immigration Reform<\/a>, congress has not succeeded in passing legislation that would address the saddest of childhood arrivals. The daca policy was established by the Previous Administration<\/a> in june of 2002. Daca was, to quote president obama at the time, a temporary stop gap measure. He added that Congress Needed<\/a> to act to put a permanent solution in place. The events leading to the rescission of the daca policy on september 5, 2017, are set forth in the dhs acting secretarys memorandum. In short, the department was advised by the attorney general that the daca policy was constitutionally defective and that potentially imminent litigation could lead to an adverse ruling against dhs. Given concerns that a court ruling terminating the daca policy might have disruptive effects, the choice was made to wind down the policy and an efficient and orderly fashion. The process for an orderly and efficient winddown of the daca policy w policy will be the subject of our testimony today. Broadly stated, dhs will adjudicate pending daca initial and renewable requests and associated applications for employment authorization documents that were accepted by september 5, 2017. Dhs will also afford Daca Recipients<\/a> whose deferred action is set to expire in the next six months the opportunity to renew their request if their applications are accepted by 5 october, 2017. The departments winding down of the daca policy will avoid administrative disruption. This includes having to return pending application fees to those seeking deferred action under the policy. It also avoids the prospect of Daca Recipients<\/a> abruptly losing deferred action and work because of an Adverse Court Ruling<\/a> that could enjoin daca in its entirety. Further, the eventual winding down of the program allowed congress some time to exercise its authorities in crafting a legislative solution that could address the longterm status of Daca Recipients<\/a> while adding needed resources and authorities to improve Public Safety<\/a>, National Security<\/a>, and the integrity of our immigration system. President trump has publicly expressed his interest in reforming and improving our nations immigration laws. The administration well understands that Immigration Reform<\/a> legislation is difficult. I myself worked long hours on Bipartisan Legislation<\/a> in this committee while serving on the staff of senator jon kyl some ten years ago. But the department stands ready to offer Technical Assistance<\/a> to the members of this committee and to the congress at large in order to affect needed changes in the law. As mentioned in dhs written statement, the departments stoim today is necessarily restricted by the fact that daca is an active litigation. For that reason, we will confine our testimony to the practical and operational steps that dhs is taking to phase out the daca policy. Chairman grassley, Ranking Member<\/a> feinstein, and distinguished members of the committee, we look forward to taking your questions today and discussing how the department can be of assistance to congress as you develop a legislative solution to this issue. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Chairman grassley, Ranking Member<\/a> feinstein, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you to discuss the specific steps being undertaken by United States<\/a> citizenship and Immigration Services<\/a>, u sscis t implement the ending of the deferred arrivals childhood policy. Its the Agency Responsible<\/a> for processing acts for deferred action under daca. Its responsible for receiving adjudicating, and making decisions on millions of immigration actions filed annually with our agency. On any given day, the more than 19,000 federal employees of uscis are making decisions on immigrant and nonimmigrant areas of our nations immigration system. It has been my privilege to serve in multiple career leadership positions in uscis, most recently as the deputy director. In doing so, i have observed the leadership and employees of uscis to be dedicated public serviceants seeking to insure that all apknlts, petitions and requests are adjudicated in a manner that protects our National Security<\/a>, Public Safety<\/a>, and the integrity of our nations immigration system. In keeping with this mind set of our agency, my remarks today will provide a brief snapshot of the actions as we phase out daca in an orderly and efficient manner. As we do so, were guided by key dates that affect the processing of daca and dacarelated forms. The first of these is the date acting secretary duke issued the memorandum to rescind the policy on september 5th, 2017. Properly filed initial and renewal requests and applications for employment authorization that were received as of september 5th, 2017, will be considered on an individual case by case basis in accordance with the guidance included in the june 15th, 2012, dhs memorandum. Additionally, uscis will consider daca renewal quests and associated applications for employment authorization made by individuals whose daca expired between september 5th, 2017, and march 5th, 2018, provided those requests are provided to uscis on our before september 5th. They will deny all requested after september 5th. Theyll also consider no longer applications by Daca Recipients<\/a>. Applications for advanced parole that wurz pending as of september 5th have been rejected and refunds are being processed. Advanced parole documents issued prior to september 5th, 2017, will generally remain valid as subject to u. S. Customs and Border Protection<\/a> retaining their authority they have always exercised in determining the admissibility of any person presenting at the border. To support an effective and orderly winddown, uscis has also provided information to inform the public of how the processing of daca requests will be effected by the september 5th, 2017, memorandum issued by acting secretary duke. Uscis has worked with and will continue to work diligently with the administration, dhs, and other Agency Partners<\/a> in the phasing out process, and well also continue to keep members of congress and the public aware of the changes in key dates. In closing, it is my hope that the information presented in this hearing will help the congress craft a legislative solution to address the situation of individuals brought to this country as minors in a way that will fairly balance enforcement, humanitarian and practical considerations. Of course, as that solution is being worked out, by our congress, uscis stands ready with dhs to provide technical operational assistance on any legislation that is drafted. On behalf of uscis, we remain committed to winding down daca in an orderly, efficient, and transparent manner. The employees of uscis will seek to do this work, as they always do with the millions of cases managed by uscis annually, with integrity, professionalism, and great care and attention to the mission of Homeland Security<\/a>. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the phasing out of daca, and i look forward to your questions. Thank you very much. Now mr. Redler. Good morning, chairman grassley, Ranking Member<\/a> feinstein and members of the committee. Thank you for your invitation to appear this morning. Before i begin my formal statement, i would like to echo the statements of chairman grassley and take a moment to express my deepest condolences for the families of those who are lost in the horrific violence in las vegas. Those lost are in our thoughts and prayers today. And behalf of attorney general sessions and the entire department of justice, we want to say how proud we are of the Law Enforcement<\/a> and First Responders<\/a> who rushed to the scene. These brave men and women are true heroes. And we are grateful for their service to their community and their country. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the administrations decision to wind down the deferred action for childhood arrivals policy. In september, the attorney general sent a letter to acting secretary of Homeland Security<\/a> elaine duke that recommended an orderly and efficient wind down of the daca policy. The attorney general stated in the letter that daca was implemented by the Previous Administration<\/a> through executive action without proper Statutory Authority<\/a> and with no established end date, after congress repeated rejection of proposed legislation that would have accomplished a similar result. The letter also explained that such an openended circumvention of immigration laws was an unconstitutional exercise of authority by the executive branch. The attorney general concluded that the daca policy thus suffered from a host of legal and constitutional defects. The attorney generals letter emphasized that courts struck down a similar executive policy that related deferred action for parents of americans and lawful permanent residents or dapa policy. The state of texas challenged the dapa policy, and the district court, after extensive hearings and factual findingser determined that enforcement of dapa was contrary to law and accordingly enjoined its enforcement. The fifth Circuit Court<\/a> of appeals affirmed that decision. And the United States<\/a> Supreme Court<\/a> by an equally divided vote, also affirmed the courts below. As the attorney general described the fifth circuits decision in his prepared remarks on daca delivered on september 5th, the fifth circuit specifically concluded that daca had not been implemented in a fashion that allowed sufficient discretion and dapa was foreclosed by congresss careful plan. Bearing in mind those courts decisions regarding dapa, the attorney general explained in his letter that because the daca policy has the same legal and constitutional defects, that the court recognized as to dapa, it is likely that potentially immigrant litigation would yield similar results with respect to daca. Therefore, the attorney general advised acting secretary duke that the department of Homeland Security<\/a> should wind down daca in an orderly and efficient manner. As the attorney general noted in his remarks on september 5th, the winddown will fulfill the desire of this administration to create a time period for congress to act should it so choose. The decision to end the daca policy is currently the subject of pending litigation. 19 states and the District Of Columbia<\/a> as well as other plaintiffs have filed lawsuits challenging the decision to end the daca policy. The department is defending those suits. In deference to the courts charged with hearing and resolving pending litigation involving the United States<\/a>, it is a long standing policy of the department not to discuss that litigation outside of court. And the department is accordingly limited in its testimony today. The Department Takes<\/a> seriously the committees oversight responsibility. It is our goal to be as responsive to the committee as possible. In light of the ongoing litigation, the potential effect of public statements on pending court cases and the departments litigation constraints including for the needs for the department to speak as one voice through Court Proceedings<\/a> and filings, ill be unable to make statements today beyond those in the attorney generals letter or other publicly available information. The department appreciates the committees understanding of these constraints. Thank you. We will have fiveminute rounds of questioning. The mathematician on my judiciary staff said this hearing could take four hours, so i would like to have my colleagues in their five minutes, if youll ask your last question and time runs out, finish asking your questions. Well let the person respond, but please dont have dialogue after the five minutes has run out. Im going to start with mr. Redler. As i said in my Opening Statement<\/a>, i understand that the department is currently engaged in ongoing litigation, may not be able to fully answer all questions posed. However, to the extent possible, the American People<\/a> and congress would appreciate any additional clarity offered on the decision to rescind daca and restore integrity to our nations lawful immigration system. One question in his public statement, attorney general said rescinding daca and enforcing the law saves lives, protects communities, and taxpayers, and prevents human suffering. How does the decision to end daca achieve the end stated by general sessions . Well, thank you for your question. Those are the statements that general sessions made to the public when daca rescission was announced. Those are the attorney generals views on those issues. To the extent those issues are relevant to daca, they may be relevant to the litigation and those could be raised in the litigation with respect to whether the action was permissible to wind it down. Those are also probably appropriate considerations for a policy making body like the senate to consider as you consider future action or future legislative action with respect to daca. Mr. Doherty, the issue of daca, i have expressed a lot of concern about it over the years, and im glad to see this administration taking some of my concerns seriously. Id like to know what this administration thinks it needs to improve Immigration Enforcement<\/a> to the point where we dont wind down another daca situation in another decade or two. Congress has been demanding a functioning entry exit system for almost 15 years. And i think we can all agree that some sort of Employment Verification Program<\/a> will help eliminate the major causes of ilLegal Immigration<\/a>. But now im going to ask you for more details. Would evarify reduce the need for dhs to engage in immigration raids or other enforcement activities . Senator, i believe the answer is yes. Evarify is currently voluntary, as everyone knows. Mr. Mccament is an expert on evarify, but ill tell you the system adds about 1,400 new businesses each week, and i believe we have over 700,000 businesses that rely on evarify. The system is scalable, fairly easy to use. It can use just like any other government program, an infusion of additional funding to make sure that it is robust. As ombudsman i studied everify. I wanted to understand if feel really liked it or not. Most employers said we got used to it. Once we got the interface, once we started it, it worked for us. So yes, senator, i think the question is if we were able to have a mandatory evarify for the right sizes of business, the rights numbers of businesses, that we would decrease the attraction of being able to get a job in the United States<\/a>. Okay. For you also, we need to do something to make it easier for people to remove people who shouldnt be here, especially criminal elements. We also need to reduce case backlog and detention times so that we dont have to let these people remain at large in our country for years while they wait for their cases to be adjudicated. The question number one, when it comes to removing criminal aliens, what stands out to you as the biggest legal barrier . For instance, is it the decision where the Supreme Court<\/a> said that you cant hold a person remove a person beyond a certain period of time or cant hold them . Is it a problem with the ambiguous definition of violent criminal activity . Im suggesting two or three. Or is it Something Else<\/a> . I think its a combination of all three. One issue is when a country will not accept folks back that were trying to remove. Were doing better at that. Were being very aggressive at using our Legal Authority<\/a> to encourage countries to take their people back. A modification of the i think its 101a43 definition of criminal aliens could probably deserve a second look so that might be improved as part of legislation. And i think the other inhibitor to our ability to identify and remove criminal aliens is essentially going to be capacity in terms of i. C. E. Agents. We need more of them, can we need them doing interior enforcement. Senator feinstein. Thanks. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The Trump Administration<\/a>s decision to terminate the daca program, i think as everybody knows, has stirred an incredible amount of anxiety and fear for hundreds of thousands of young people across the country. A few weeks ago, President Trump<\/a> took to twitter to announce that daca beneficiaries concerned about their status during the programs phase out, quote, have nothing to worry about. No action, end quote. Has the department of Homeland Security<\/a> issued guidance or memoranda reflecting the statement pronounced by the president . Maam, i dont believe that is necessary. We rely on guidance that was put in place in 2012 when the daca program was instantiated. Thats available on usciss website and it will tell you what the priorities are for immigration Customs Enforcement<\/a> and what they are for the department at large. Those priorities have not cha e chang changed. So have there been any instructions pursuant to this policy decision on twitter, any instructions been provided to the department of Homeland Security<\/a> how to proceed . Maam, before daca came up, as you know, it sort of forced on us because of litigation. Then secretary kelly issued the priorities, immigration priorities enforcement document. I have forgotten what date it was. I believe it was in february of 2012. That stated the Immigration Enforcement<\/a> priorities for the department of Homeland Security<\/a>. At the time, he carved out both dapa and daca, that those, because of what was going on as the dapa and daca situation was ever changing, that guidance did not apply to that population. So i would tell you in good faith and complete confidence that we are relying on the same priorities that were in place in 2012, and we have not added to them. So to this population. Let me be clear. So no instructions have been given to dhs regarding personnel with respect to Enforcement Actions<\/a> against daca . Correct. We do not have specific instructions to go after any daca recipient. And if the sixmonths period expires, you would then anticipate there would be specific instructions. Maam, i dont know what kind of instructions would come out then, but as you point out and as you know, once that period of deferred action expires, the individual does not have is not under deferred action anymore. The removal is not deferred, and theyre no longer eligible for lawful employment. But you dhs, i. C. E. , has most specific instructions with how to proceed . Well develop those at the time, but hopefully well have an Immigration Reform<\/a> legislation that will obviate the need for that. Were in agreement, so that would be excellent if it happens. Let me ask you another question. Well, i wont do that one. In january, the president signed executive orders pertaining to Border Security<\/a>. And interior Immigration Enforcement<\/a>. These orders called for the hiring of an additional 5,000 Border Patrol<\/a> agents and 10,000 deportation officers. In july, the department of Homeland Security<\/a>s office, the ig, released an important report which concluded that the department of Homeland Security<\/a>, customs and Border Protection<\/a>, and immigrations i. C. E. And Customs Enforcement<\/a> faced significant challenges in meeting the hiring goals identified in these orders. It noted that both cbp and i. C. E. Have failed to provide data to justify the operational need of Deployment Strategies<\/a> for additional agents and officers. It also found that in the absence of a comprehensive workforce model, dhs will continue to struggle to accomplish its missions in a Cost Effective<\/a> manner. Now, do you believe these hiring goals would be an efficient use of taxpayer money . In so far as they improve the security of the border and the interior, i would say the answer is yes. The difficulties pointed out by the ig in finding highly qualified people, which is what the American People<\/a> would like us to hire because they operate in positions of autonomy and great authority, we want to get the very best candidates that we can. So the organization struggles to do that, as i think most organizations struggle to get highly qualified people. With the intention, senator, is to enhance interior security in the United States<\/a> by removing criminal aliens from the United States<\/a> and to insure that our border is secure against folks who are trying to illegally cross it. Youre saying priority is people who have committed crimes. Yes. Thank you. Senator graham. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much for holding this hearing. Mrs. Doherty, lets just continue. So theres a need for more i. C. E. Agents, is that correct . Yes, sir. Were having a hard time filling that need . Yes, sir. Is it fair to say Illegal Immigrants<\/a> are not taking those jobs away . I dont believe they are, sir. Looking for a job, call the i. C. E. People. So march 5th, if we do nothing in congress, what happens . Thank you, senator. Beginning march 5th, and each day after that, the validity date of the employment authorization documents will begin to expire for current daca recipien recipients. So people who have jobs will lose their legal status and no longer be gainfully employed. That is correct. They would no longer have the authorization to be employed. People who have lived here most of their lives. All their adult lives, will have no place to go other than being deported, right . Unfortunately, lacking that authorization as well as the prosecutorial discretion from daca, they would no longer have a standing in the country, thats correct. And the purpose of this winddown is to give Congress Time<\/a> to act, is that correct . Yes, sir. We would like to help you get there if you want our help. You think thats the president s desire, to find a legislative fix . Yes, very much so. You think its his desire to give these kids a decent life . Yes. You think its his desire to secure the border as he promised . Yes, sir. You have been working on this with senator kyl for a very long time. Youre a good man. Do you believe the d. R. E. A. M. Act kids are on a hold. There are also outliers in any group, are they a liability . Theyre a benefit to the country, as are many immigrants coming in. I served as the ombudsman. I naturalized people to become u. S. Citizens. It means a great deal. They are a valuable contribution to our society. We need to reggialize their status through some legal means. Do you agree with that . I do, senator. We have the administration appearing before the congress saying that these d. R. E. A. M. Act kids, daca kids, are a value to the country. The president says he wants to give them legal status. And the only thing standing between that outcome is congress. Do you agree with that . Yes, sir. How would you feel if youre one of these d. R. E. A. M. Act kids, knowing the only thing between you and certainty is congress . Never mind. I will withdraw that question. Do we have a large group of people who have given that we give legal status to live here all their lives that dont have a pathway to citizenship . Is that is there 800,000 People Holding<\/a> some kind of visa that can stay here all their life and never have a chance to be citizens . No. That you know of . Do you know . Im not aware of. Do you think now is a good time to start that prauz . No. No, sir. My either. One of the problems you have in europe is a lot of people are sort of hired help, outside looking in. Thats the problem with european immigration. Do you agree with that . Yes, i think creating secondclass citizens or people who never are able to naturalize is not a good model. Do you think the president shares that view . I do. All right. I dont know how we cant fix this problem, but maybe well find a way. Border security. Is it fair to say that the border could be improved in terms of security . Yes. Is it fair to say that if you dont eventually secure your border, youll have another wave of Illegal Immigrants<\/a> . You will, and youll have the dangerous of people, including undocumented children transferring. What happens to their parents if we do the d. R. E. A. M. Act . I think thats for congress to decide how they wish to treat parents. You got any recommendations . Senator, we would be very happy to work with you and the congress to provide any Technical Assistance<\/a>. So you would have parents that brought the children here, that they get zero benefit from the d. R. E. A. M. Act. Is that correct . The parents of the children. Depending upon the parameters, senator, of what would be passed, that could be a possibility. Okay. So that group of people would have to be addressed separately, even if you passed the d. R. E. A. M. Act. Is that correct . If you pass the dream act and gave status to young people, they eventually would be able to petition on behalf of their parents. That was what i was wanting to get to. That begins chain migration. Do you have any ideas how to avoid that and make us deal with the parents through a separate process . What recommendations would you have regarding d. R. E. A. M. Act children sponsoring their parents . Those qualifications are well known in the body. We have the d. R. E. A. M. Act has been around for a long time. Age that you got here, no criminal history, so youre thinking sponsoring the parents. Okay. Senator, i would leave that to you. Were happy to help any way we can. Senator leahy. Thank you, mr. Chairman. You know, its frustrating, as the chairman knows, two or three years ago, we passed a Major Overhaul<\/a> of immigration. In this of immigration in this Committee Bipartisan<\/a> passed the United States<\/a> 21. Republicans, democrats voted for it. Republican leadership they couldnt bring up in the house where it would have passed, but it would have violated the sacred rule. And because of that enormous respect they couldnt bring it up. I think everybody wishes now they had. I worry when talking about daca, theres a lot of d. R. E. A. M. Ers only wish to contribute to the only country theyve known. So will we embrace those who are playing by the rules, pull themselves up by the bootstraps or do we tell the let me ask mr. Wheeler, in a recent speech attorney general sessions suggested the daca program put our nation at risk of crime, violence and even terrorism. The institute confirmed less than 1 of d. R. E. A. M. Ers have lost their daca status due to criminal or public concerns. Mr. Wheeler, did he correctly describe that the daca puts our nation at risk of crime and violence . Thank you for your question. Did he accurately describe the Justice Department<\/a>s view that daca puts our nation at crime of violence . Ive read the letter. Thats an easy yes or no answer. Certainly the general speaks for the department of justice. So he accurately describes the Justice Department<\/a> view that daca puts our nation at risk of crime, violence and even terrorism . Well, the attorney general speaks for the department. So what the attorney general says is the position of the department, yes. So its also likely d. R. E. A. M. Ers are less likely to be incarcerated with nativeamericans with the same, age and education profiles. In light of attorney general sessions statement, can you provide this committee with any examples . You dont have to give me hundreds, just give me one. Im not aware of any examples. Neither is the attorney general when he said that, i can guarantee you that. Can you provide us with any statistics compiled by the dodge or other Government Agencies<\/a> to support the attorney generals claims about d. R. E. A. M. Ers proclivity for criminality . You would have to ask other agencies what resources they have. The attorney general obviously in his letter articulated the position of the United States<\/a>, and the attorney general from my understanding will be appearing in front of the congress this week is will be happy to address those im happy to hear that. Its taken the attorney general you have to defend the policies in court. Its striking that you dont you say ill have to ask somebody else because you dont know the answers to that. Ill be happy to defend the policies. You dont know the answer to the question. Sessions letter articulated four or five reasons high he recommended to secretary duke the program be wound down. I understand. He also spoke to their proclivity towards terrorism, and we dont seem to find any. President trump rescinding the daca program says our highest duty is to defend the American People<\/a>. Well, there are roughly 900 d. R. E. A. M. Ers serving in our military with skills deemed vital to the military. The president of course had five deferments because his heel was bothering him while he was out playing tennis, so he hasnt served in the military. But the d. R. E. A. M. Ers have. Isnt in our National Interest<\/a> to keep these d. R. E. A. M. Ers in our armed forces . Thank you, senator. With respect to the d. R. E. A. M. Ers in the armed forces or in the other occupations we recognize that the action of deferred action does not provide them with a permanent status, and so thats why we want to are you planning to deport 1,000 d. R. E. A. M. Ers in our military . Senator, thats a question for i. C. E. , not our department. Youre the acting director. Do you have plans to deport these 1,000 that our serving in our military. Usc is not in charge of military operations, but with respect i. C. E. Their policies havent changed. I submit questions for the record. And mr. Chairman, im delighted to hear the attorney general is going to come and chat with us. In two and a half weeks i think its the 19th but i dont know for sure. Ill drop by. Youll probably be here for the whole meeting, and i welcome you. Senator kennedy. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I cant see your name plates here. Thank you, sir. Mr. Dardy, does the president believe we should pass the daca bill . The president would Like Congress<\/a> to find the solution to daca. Hed also Like Congress<\/a> to look at other improvements that can be made for Border Security<\/a>, interior security and to allow the department to do what it can to protect the interests of the american worker. Can you tell me with specificity what the president would like to see in a daca fixed bill . The core components of Immigration Reform<\/a> that are of interest to the administration are controlling the border, funding the secure defense act, expanding our ability to expeditiously remove foreign nationals from the United States<\/a> when they dont have a convention against torture claim or asylum claim. Wed like to improve our vetting and security, wed like to reduce these overstays. Were concerned about repatriation as i mentioned earlier. Wed like to protect u. S. Workers, prevent fraud in the workplace, update nonimmigrant business visas. And wed like to examine the establishment of a merit based system which prioritizes the skills of immigrants over low skill. Im looking for a little more meat on the bone. Okay. Tell me if you would, sir, what the Trump Administration<\/a> would like us to do with respect to socalled d. R. E. A. M. Ers . We are not in a position by design of advocating for any particular legislative solution. The reason why we do that im not asking you to pick, choose among the bills. Im just asking you what the administration thinks with specificity we should do with respect to d. R. E. A. M. Ers because obviously the president has the authority to veto a bill. So let me ask you again, what specifically does the Trump Administration<\/a> think we should do with respect to the socalled d. R. E. A. M. Ers . Let me answer the question this way how about just answering . Yes, okay. When you are these individuals lack formal status in the United States<\/a>. Right, so they would be allowed to stay in. They would probably be permitted, under a rational bill these residents would be able to become lawful permanent residents. So the president believes they should be allowed to stay . Excuse me, the president , yes, would like to work with grs to get a solution. Under what conditions duds the president believe they should be allowed to stay . I dont have those details for you, sir. You dont have any suggestions . We are ready to give you Technical Assistance<\/a> at any time. And i appreciate that. We need all the assistance we can get. But what im interested in trying to understand from you three gentlemen is, okay, weve established the administration supports allowing d. R. E. A. M. Ers to stay. And what im asking, maybe i should include your two colleagues here, under what conditions, mr. Mccamt did i say that correctly, sir . Mccamt, yes, sir. Under what conditions . Senator, with respect to those policy points, i would refer to the department. How about you, sir . Under what conditions . Well, the department of justice typically doesnt take sort of legislative positions. Were happy to consider legislative proposals submitted to the department. The attorney general said in this letter so weve established the president agrees they should stay, but do you not have a position whatsoever on the conditions . Sir, if by conditions you mean what do they need to satisfy in order to remain in the United States<\/a>, congress is free to put conditions on those. And will the president sign whatever conditions we put on it . I assume hell be very interested to see what you have, but well be there to advise him as to what we think is good about your bill. What if we get it wrong and youre not happy . I dont know what happens then, sir. I do. Im out of time, mr. Chairman. Senator durbin. I hope the statement that mr. Redler is it redler or reedler . Redler. I hope his statement will remain part of the record. Lets at least if we can get a copy of what you read today, is that possible . Well, i announced that the statement would be put in the record. Well, thats good. I think we ought to get back to the regular order of things. The second point id like to make to mr. Dardy, we went through comprehensive Immigration Reform<\/a>, and i bet you followed it. You may know we spent six months, democrats and republicans, working out a bill. And then we took it to senator lays department and the most proliffic member to offer the amendment is now our current attorney general. And we considered a lot of amendments over a long, long period of time. And we addressed virtually every issue you mentioned in your long list as part of comprehensive impgration reform. And let me just say just speaking for myself, please do not put the burden on the d. R. E. A. M. Ers to accept every aspect of comprehensive reform to get a chance to become citizens of the United States<\/a>. Thats too much to ask. Im for comprehensive Immigration Reform<\/a>. They are, too. But in order to give them legal status to stay in this country i hope your administration doesnt use that list. There are parts of it, Border Security<\/a>, lets talk about it and find a reasonable way. But its too much to ask from where im sitting. And i hope youll take that message back. I will, sir. And the second issue is one that strikes of the hearts of d. R. E. A. M. Ers today. Most of these young people were raised in the United States<\/a> quietly admonished for their parents for a long time to never breathe a word of their status of their family for fear of deportation. Do your best, obey the law, dont get into a situation where someone is going to call on you. You could jeopardize yourself. And then cape daca. And we said to these people and their families for the first time do just the opposite. Declare yourself to the government of the United States<\/a> of america and tell them who you are, where you are, where you live and submit yourself to a background check. And we said this information taken by your government will not be used against you and your family. Is that still the standard that is being used, that the information that is being filed by Daca Recipients<\/a>, will not be used in the daca the. Thank you, senator. Since 2012 that information sharing policy has not changed which specifically says that immigration information provided to the uscis for purpose of daca requests will not be provided to i. C. E. , and any referrals would be made in keeping with notice to appear guidance or mta guidance. Will that continue under this administration . Senator, to this point the information policy does remain the same. Last point i want to make is tis. Each of you have said repeatedly in various forms an orderly efficient wind down. Its painful to say those words because theres nothing orderly or efficient about exposing hundreds of thousands of young people to deportation and telling them they can no longer work. That may be efficient by government standards but not by human standards. Theyre talking about filing this week, by this thursday if their renewal comes up between now and merchandise 5, 2018. They were given four weeks from the president s announcement to come up with the filing fee and get the filing done on time. I see a statement made this morning by the acting homeland secretary elaine duke in which she given special consideration to those who live in puerto rico and Virgin Islands<\/a> because of the obvious disasters theyve gone through. May i implore you to do the same thing at dhs that our Internal Revenue<\/a> service is doing by giving that same case by case to those living in texas and Florida Living<\/a> through those hurricanes. If its good enough for tax collectors to have a heart, isnt it good for dhs folks to have a heart . We have 30,000 Daca Recipients<\/a> in texas, i dont know how many in florida. Give them a break. If theyre facing problems dont hold them to this deadline, give them a case by case consideration. Will you take that message back in. We will. Thank you. Based upon what i know im going to hear in the second panel from one of our people ive expressed a lot of concern about criminals getting approved for daca. In one case a daca recipient was granted an ead despite being under investigation by hsi for child exploitation. He went onto get a ead and was hired by a summer camp. You heard me express that in my oemg statement. Just so theres no doubt, there are examples of daca beneficiaries committing crime. And i think you left the impression you dont have any examples. I appreciate the chairman raising that example for the committee. There may be other examples as well. And i think the attorney generals letter also spoke more broadly to immigration issues generally beyond Daca Recipients<\/a> and concerns about crime thats more generally related to immigration. I think theres information specific about that as well. Would you stand corrected, that there are examples . Senator, we do have examples of approximately 2,000 or so term nations for criminal data. Senator. Thank you, mr. Chair. I want to go back to the line of questions that senator kennedy have. I know you cant get inside the president s head, but thats one of the benefits of social media and tweets. So i want to go back and take a look at a litany of communications. I know on september 5th, the president appropriately did the rescission of the daca act under the new administration. Now, i happen to support the treatment for daca population here, and i want to get to that if i have time. But on the date of the rescission at 9 01 a. M. The president says congress now has six months to legalize daca. Congress now has six months to legalize daca something the Obama Administration<\/a> was unable to do. If they cant, ill review the issue. He then goes onto say congress get ready to do your job, daca. And that was on the 5th as well. Then he moves onto say on the 14th the wall which is already under construction in the form of new renovation of old and existing fences and walls will continue to be built. Sounds like he want Border Security<\/a>. Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military, really. So in other words, one of the concerns i had with your response agreed with the laundry list as senator durbin says it reads like a laundry list for comprehensive Immigration Reform<\/a>. And if congress has proven an extraordinary ability to do anything its to fail on comprehensive Immigration Reform<\/a>. So it would be very helpful to get from the administration what the priority is. And i for one think it should be a affectionate compassionate for the population and it must include Border Security<\/a>, so were not here in ten or 12 years dealing with the same situation. It is the entirety of immigration issues in this country, but we really do need white house leadership on exactly what the sixmonth time line that the president has placed on congress to do our jobs looks like. Ask i i for one hope that its an articulate, passionate, Firm Response<\/a> to provide certainty to the daca population and a reasonable sustainable fisically sound Border Security<\/a> strategy. That to me seems to be a good step in the right direction after 30 years of failure of immigration in this country. I think that would be a good success for the president. It wont get to all to the issues this administration wants to deal with or that i want to deal with. We need a consistent message that seems to be consistent with what the president communicated on september 5th and september 14th. And incidence tale he went onto say there was no deal made with pelosi and schumer on daca. And he made clear then Border Security<\/a> needs to be a key part of what this Congress Sends<\/a> to him. So we need clarity from the administration, and i hope that youll take that back. I do want to echo what senator durbin said. These daca the daca population that are in distressed areas whether texas or florida or puerto rico or any other place, there needs to be a reasonable response to them because its congress in action, the appropriate action by a Prior Administration<\/a> and the current action of this administration thats putting them i think in an unattentable position. And i think it it should be on us to make it as smooth as possible as we go about doing our jobs. And finally i want to mention there are a number of examples where we have some 2,000 or so people that are doing a disservice who are part of the daca population but doing a disservice to the vast majority of this population who are working, in school and gainfully employed. Those who have misdemeanors and felonies, theres not going to be any treatment in any program we come up because theyve disobeyed our laws. But for the vast majority of our daca population, we need to stop talking about it and solve it. I think there are great proposals in here to get together. And urge our colleagues to not do something that goes on and on and we get to it december 8th and with we have a budget deal. I think its a disservice to this population for them to wind in from capitol hill and we know what a problem is, we know what the solution is, and them to provide it. Im sorry i dont have any time for you all to answer my questions. Okay, thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator durbin, as well for your long Time Leadership<\/a> in this area. And thank you senator tillis on trying to work with us on a solution. The issue was raised on criminality. And i have a staff that 97 of the 800,000 plus daca kids are in school or working. Do you have any reason to dispute that statistic, any of you . No, okay. And the issue was raised about crime. Like for me right now the only crime im thinking about is the shooting yesterday, and would it surprise you we dont have the stats on daca kids who are at the concert or who were First Responders<\/a>. But ive certainly seen on tv theyre giving the immigrant population in nev, that there were First Responders<\/a> who are immigrants. Would that surprise you at all . And the person that perpetrated this carnage was not an immigrant, he was caucasian, is that right . Okay, i just want to put this in perspective. So my question is i was disappointed to learn that a Justice Department<\/a> attorney stated that the department of Homeland Security<\/a> does not plan to extend the october 5th deadline in hearing in federal court last week. Is it true the administrations not considering the deadline . How come you picked a onemonth deadline . I guess ill ask your Homeland Security<\/a> friends here. Could one of you answer . We picked one month. The decision wud made by the acting assistant secretary. That was considered adequate to get the job done of taking in any applications we did not already have, and that was the decision made then. So is it why only one month . Weve been talking about these emergencies that have come up in texas and florida. Why that date . The principle concern that was raised by the attorney general that we were sitting on top of a policy that was unlawful is one that we needed to terminate and we needed to do it quickly. Were not authorized to exercise against the advice of the attorney general on something that may be unconstitutional. And im not trying to put a phony line in the sand there. What im trying to say that when we were advised it was unlawful, we wanted to figure, okay, can we draw it down, and if we can draw it down what might it look like . We were concerned about abruptness that might happen if a court were to right now theres no plans to extend it . Extend the deadline, maam . We have one extension for folks in puerto rico right now. On a case by case basis we will consider those, but systemically, no. Ive heard from minnesota and other educational institutions in my state about the administrations decision to reasoned daca, of course, in particular the march 5th deadline falls in the middle of the Spring Semester<\/a> for many call colleges with nearly half of the d. R. E. A. M. Ers currently in school, this deadline and potentially work authoritization could force many of them to drop out midsemester. Is there any consideration to allow current students to complete at least through the current year . I apologize, we havent addressed that yet. Has the dodge addressed institutions eliminating daca and if not, could cow do so . So many of the kids are in college trying to get degrees in the job openings we have in many key areas. So any has there been any coordination with the schools . Senator, we have on the day that we announced the wind down we did have a call of different groups including congress, congressional staff. And that included some of the academic community. With respect to broad out reach i dont believe we have. I would also note that about 150,000 that would be eligible that would expiring in september and march. And as of today weve received about 106,000 or so of those, but we will certainly take back that point to ensure. All right, thank you. Thank you to all of you. Thank you. Let me ask one practical question, and then another one. The practical question is that at least from what ive seen in press reporting there seem to be very wide variations in enforcement including in areas like schools, churches, courthouses, so forth. I do not get the impression from what im reading about enforcement in various areas that the policies of the administration have much sway out in the field. I know that President Trump<\/a> campaigned very strongly with the organizations that represent field agents. So they may feel empowered to go off an their own on rogue missions that are inconsistent with the kind of command discipline that we expect of Law Enforcement<\/a> agencies. So if you could give me your brief assessment of to what extent command discipline actually exists in this area and policies are actually being followed down to the field level i would appreciate your assessment of that. If you want to do it in shorthand on a percentage basis, feel free to do that. I would defer to the department who handles the enforcement priorities for the administration. Okay. Go ahead. Senator, im not aware of any rogue so you think you have 100 compliance on policies you are putting out . Im not aware of any activities by i. C. E. Prioritizing those things that are established in the documents we produce including the document that came out from then secretary kelly in the springtime. I likewise am unaware with respect to i. C. E. One of the things that we are seeing is that the follow on affects of this decision are very frightening to people. Theyre very frightening to children in particular who as a general proposition we dont expect to be expert analysts of the constitution or the contours of government policy. They just get a signal, and what we are seeing is reports particularly from schools and schoolteachers about children who are actively upset in class having to deal with tears and fear, that it casts upon classroom performance among a lot of these kids. And its not really a teachers capacity to say, well, here are the fine points of the immigration policy and how it is or isnt going to affect you and your family. Programs like lunch programs or signing up for health tests or visits with the nurse, anything that involves that child signaling themselves have gone down. Participation among groups that deal with, say, illness prevention has gone down in this community. There is a pervading sense of fear reported to me from my communities in rhode island about what has happened. And i would hope that as you make the decisions you make you take to some degree into account those human consequences that are playing out in the lives of these people. This may seem like political fun and games in this room, but back in rhode island there are classrooms with kids who are really frightened, and a frightened kid is not something anybody should take any satisfaction in my view. I guess my time is out. The next senator, i have to ask doj because the statements by the attorney general have come up indicating that maybe he said daca caused terrorism. And i want to ask you if this would be a quote from his record making clear that he doesnt sign this to daca. He says, quote, failure to enforce the laws in the past has put our nation at risk of crime, violence and even terrorism, end of quote. Yeah, thats correct. Thats why i was referencing the fact the letter referred to certain immigration issues more broadly. Senator franken. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And i want to thank all the witnesses for being here today. I also want to be clear from the outset that what were talking about when were talking about ending daca, were talking about completely up ending the lives of over 800,000 young people. People who came here as children to work hard and play by the rules all for a chance to take part in the American Dream<\/a> and people who will contribute mightily to our country. When we talk about your Fiscal Health<\/a> and the fiscal future of our country, we always bemoan the demographics that we have. And then we get in those debates, and its always like if we just had more young people. This is 800,000 young people who are working and are studying. Thats who were talking about. This is really in an odd way shooting ourselves in the foot. And were talking about people like marlin servantes. This remarkable young woman was an intern in my office in minnesota last summer. Her mother, a single parent, brought her here from mexico as an infant because she wanted a better life for her daughter. And marlon and her mother put her to work to make her dream a reality, while her mother worked multiple jobs to provide for her family, marlon hit the books and also worked. She finished with honors, daca helped her apply to colleges. And see she sees the opportunity despite exposing herself and her family. And thats what senator durbin was talking about. She won an academic scholarship to southwest Minnesota University<\/a> but still had to work two jobs to cover all her costs because shes ineligible for federal aid. Marlon was a stand out ozas an intern in my office while working nights at target. I talked to attorney general sessions announcement of the Trump Administration<\/a> termination of the daca program, and she told me how vulnerable she felt. But i promised her that we will not give up the fight. And i want to emphasize whats already been said, that turning our backs on d. R. E. A. M. Ers is a disgrace. Im not blaming any of you guys. Im just saying where we are right now its a disgrace to our National Values<\/a> and our moral principles. Ending the daca program without providing a legislative replacement, risk pulling the rug from underneath the investments d. R. E. A. M. Ers have made in their futures and investments d. R. E. A. M. Ers have made in our country, paying taxes, buying homes and serving in the military for goodness sake. You risk pushing people back into the shadows, tearing apart families and devastating our communities. Turning our backs on d. R. E. A. M. Ers would be unconscionable and unamerican, but im hopeful we can Work Together<\/a> to protect the futures of people like marlin who worked so hard to build one. I am a strong supporter of the bipartisan d. R. E. A. M. Act, which would allow young people like marlin to earn legal status and eventually citizenship. And i just want to urge all my colleagues to vote for it. Mr. Mccamit, which d. R. E. A. M. Ers first supported daca, they voluntarily gave a lot of their personal information. Anything from fingerprints to retinal scans, to home address and phone numbers. And senator durbin was asking about this. In my view and his view if the government were to use the information that they voluntarily turned over, i think it would represent a shocking betrayal of the trust they put in us. Now, so far the administration has said that generally uscis wont proactively turn d. R. E. A. M. Er information over to i. C. E. , ill get to this i just want to ask the question. Will you commit to me that uscis will never proict avly disclose information pertained to daca applications to agencies. Will you commit to clarifying the circumstances under which uscis would respond to an i. C. E. Request for that information . Thank you, senator, for that question on both fronts. With respect to setting out clearly the guidelines for which information would be disclosed since the beginning of the daca information daca policy we have noted that information would not be turned over to cvp or i. C. E. For immigration proceedings, but could be turned over if it fit the guidelines for notice to appear. With respect to the policy as far as a change to the policy, senator, it has not changed since 2012. But the information that we have always provided noted it could be subject to change. And we would continue with that point. Senator rono. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Weve acknowledged members of the Congress Caucus<\/a> at this hearing. And i would like to acknowledge members of the Asian Pacific<\/a> caucus. Theyre in the audience. Getting to my questions, id like to ask mr. Dohearty and mr. Mccamit. I would like a yes or no answer if you have a concern that they provided this information to the government. Senator, i do not have the concern because we set out from the start of 2012 the ways in which information would be shared and not shared. That was provided to us for the purposes of Immigration Enforcement<\/a> proceedings. And weve always tried to make that point very clear from the beginning. Didnt you also say that could change . Its a policy decision. Its not a legal and that is correct, senator, from the beginning weave noted it could be subject to change. It has not changed to date. Yes, so that is the concern we have. Would you like to respond also . The departments job is to protect Public Safety<\/a> and National Security<\/a>. But the department understands that an individual is a threat to National Security<\/a>, the department is going to do everything in its power as it should as a Law Enforcement<\/a> organization to neutralize that particular concern. If we know that somebody is a Public Safety<\/a> threat its incumbent on us to mr. Dohearty, my time is running out, i think all of us acknowledge if someone is a risk to our National Security<\/a> or Public Safety<\/a> of course there are ways that that information can be used. But the bottom line from what i get, right now you do not have a concern that the d. R. E. A. M. Ers provided this information to the government . Right now you do not have a concern this information is going to be used to find the d. R. E. A. M. Ers within six months when they no longer have the protections of being Daca Recipients<\/a>. Senator, we dont have any plans to target d. R. E. A. M. Ers paced on the information we received. So are you saying the 800,000 participants of daca have anything to fear regarding doportation . If that is so, you should put that out. Because theres a lot of fear not just with the d. R. E. A. M. Ers but their family and friends. So if they have nothing to fear from deportation, why do you not put that out . Maam, i dont have an answer to that particular question. To kind of get back to my prior point, if someone is an enforcement priority for us regardless of the status whether daca or no, were goi i would say that since you both acknowledge that that policy to not use this information for deportation purposes could change, one, they dont have anything to fear today from deportation and the use of this information. But two this policy and position can change very quickly. For both of you again if the Supreme Court<\/a> okay, the attorney general says daca is illegal and unconstitution. So if its illegal and unconstitutional, why even allow daca extensions . Senator, we had a practical problem on your hands. We had a very large number of applications that had been received at the department where individuals had put their money towards that. Theyd also included their ead payment with that. O unraveling with that, schooling that back and sending everyone back their application and their money was an administratively difficult thing for us to do. Plus we are we had the administrative street and then we had the practical interest of maybe congress can address this excuse me, my time is running out. I hate to keep interrupting you all, but i dont think youre answering my questions directly. If daca as the attorney general says is not only illegal but unconstitutional, what is your administrative interest . Our concern is it could be adjoined in court. And then wed really be in trouble. And perhaps theres some substantive issues with closing down daca with only a six months notice. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I think we are ready to go to the second panel. But before we do that, i understand everyones concern about the future of Daca Recipients<\/a>, and so am i. Thats why were having this hearing to find out a solution, but its important to remember were in this situation because the Previous Administration<\/a> used a pen and phone approach and created false promises. So i hope all of our government witnesses could say yes to that. Mr. Redler. The attorney general in his letter noted the legal concerns he had. Mr. Dohearty. Were ready to work with you on new legislation if you want to do that. And senator, we also look forward to providing technical operation assistance to a permanent legislative solution. Good answers. Okay, you folks, thank you very much for your testimony. You may go, and while were setting up for the other panel i want to save time by reading their introductions. We have outside expert, a beneficiary and a victim. I hope they can provide some insight into what the American People<\/a> expect from us. I want to thank the second panel for their courage in testifying today especially mr. Bill hurtsal whose 93yearold grandma was brutally raped and murdered by an unauthorized immigrant. His story although difficult to hear represent many victims who have lost loved ones due to poor immigration. And he is also a constituent of mine. I look forward to testimony today and to the dialogue this hearing will inevitably produce. And then we have ms. Vaughn is a director of policy studies for the center of immigration studies. Shes been with the center since 1992 developing an expertise in immigration policy and operations. Hes recently concluded a Department Justice<\/a> funded project where she studied the use of immigrational Law Enforcement<\/a> in trance National Gain<\/a> suppression efforts. In addition to her work with the center she instructs senior Law Enforcement<\/a> officers in seminars at northwestern Universe Center<\/a> for Public Safety<\/a>. Ms. Vaughn was previously employed at a Foreign Service<\/a> officer with the state department where she served in belgium, trinidad and tubago. And i forgot to say about mr. Hearseal, hes 64 years old. And Council Bluffs<\/a> was residence. And his granddaughter was brutally raped and murdered by an undocumented immigrant. Mr. Hearseal and his wife have three children. Hes cofounder of prehelp d. R. E. A. M. Ers, an organization that focuses on helping undocumented immigrants gaining access to Health Careers<\/a> and health care services. Well start with you, ms. Vaughn. Thank you very much for the invitation to testify today. Id like to address the impact of the daca program and offer a few comments on how Congress Might<\/a> move forward now that it has been terminated. Theres no doubt that the daca benefits have been a major blessing for the recipients and their families. The educational institutions they have attended and their employers have benefitted, too. But we cannot ignore theres been some adverse siefts for the local economy, for our communities and for our immigration system. The daca policy was an egregious abuse of executive authority and carelessly implemented. It also displaced u. S. Workers from Employment Opportunities<\/a> adding to the cost of Public Welfare<\/a> and assistance programs, provided deportation protection to criminals in some cases, diverted resources away from processing benefits for legal immigrants, invited fraudulent applications and helped inspire a surge of new ilLegal Immigration<\/a>. Members of congress again are being confronted by passionate for large amnesty. But they have consequences for americans and continued tolerance of ilLegal Immigration<\/a> damages the integrity of our Legal Immigration<\/a> system and erodes public support. Now, clearly there is some support for amnesty for people for daca. And i think there are some legitimate public reasons to do it. If Congress Takes<\/a> this step, though, it must be limit today the 700,000 people approximately who now have daca benefits and only if this amnesty is accompanied by other provisions to mitigate the fiscal costs, offset the inevitable increases in chain migration and prevent the unlikely surge in ilLegal Immigration<\/a>. We have heard a lot this morning about the fear that people with daca have about their future in this country and what is going to happen to the benefits that they have been extended. And i do sympathize with that. I can understand that. It must be difficult, but i think that we also need to have a similar sympathy for people who are affected by our tolerance of ilLegal Immigration<\/a>, people who fear theyre not going to be able to get a job because theyre employers are bypassing legal workers in favorf illegal workers. People who live on the border live in fear every day in parts of it because the border is not secure and because they cant even travel around their own property without fear for what may happen to them at the hands of the smuggling cartels. I have a friend in providence, rhode island, who lives in fear because she was raped in a public park by a criminal alien who had been released by the city of providences sanctuary policies. And was allowed to keep employment because his employer did not have to use everify. Parents ive talked to in brentwood, new york are afraid where they children have to go to high schools where the ms 13 gang has proliferated and expanded because that gang took advantages of policies at our border and are now wreaking havoc in our communities. And i talk to people who live in shank chaer cities who live in fear because these policies result in the release of hundreds of aliens isis is trying to deport very single week. These are fears we need to take seriously also. Now, i do think that there should be an amnesty for people with daca, and i think it should offer lawful permanent residency status, a green card and a path to citizenship. But Congress Also<\/a> needs to slow if it takes that step, slow down other parts of our immigration system. I estimate that if 700,000 daca beneficiaries receive green cards, then we can expect that they would be able, if no other changes are made to our immigration system they would be able to sponsor an additional 1. 4 million relatives in through our immigration system. So that amounts to more than 2 million permanent residents who would be added to our country because of a daca amnesty. So to compensate congress should downsize the family migration categories specifically by terminating the categories that exist for married adults, sons and daughters and siblings of u. S. Citizens and also by u terminating the visa lottery, which is obsolete and brings in people who have no ties to this country unlike the people with daca. Again, thank you for the opportunity to testify, and i look forward to your questions. Chairman grassly, Ranking Member<\/a> feinstein, members of the Senate Judiciary<\/a> committee, good afternoon. Im honored and greatly appreciate the opportunity to testify. America is at a cross roads. Illegal alien crimes are a result of Congress Lack<\/a> treatment of Border Security<\/a> and Law Enforcement<\/a>. We stand here at the rule of law intersects lawlessness and acts is congress willing to tell that it is going to reward lawlessness. Today i would like to tell the story of my her father worked as a carpenter. Louise and her family learned english and worked hard. She respected our nation and its citizens by obeying our laws. These same laws if they had been enforced might have saved louise or as we call her, gram. And she might still be with us here today. On july 21, 2013 one year after obamas unconstitutional deferment to docka, which gave millions och americans a guarantee they would not be subject to u. S. Law, grams life was ripped from her. Gram was 93 and had been sleeping peacefully from her bed until she was violently awaken by an 18yearold mexican national. Brutally is not accurate to describe what he did to gram. Crushed both of her orbital sockets, broke her nose in three maces and broke several of her ribs. In pummeling her face, she forced her face to push from lip and the blood from that injury filled her lungs. He raped and sodmized her leaving two pools of blood to coagulate on the carpet beneath her. The attack was so severe there was literally not one square foot with any of the walls or ceiling that did not contain a moderate amount of blood spatter. At 93 our familys matriarks dream was crushed. Four days later with her lungs suffocating her, gram succumbed to her injuries. We happen told not only was perez was an illegal alien, that he had also been deported twice, but here he was in nebraska working for an omaha roofing company. Caught and deported twice this monster was able to live in work where our loved ones lived. He was here illegally poised to murder. One of the responsibilities given to our government by the constitution is a protection of its citizens. In grams case the government not only failed it failed miserably. But this tragedy doesnt begin or end with grams life being stolen by illegal alien. Sadly, this story is repeated countless times across this nation. There are thousands of americans who have suffered at the hands of illegal aliens in this country and now the Government Asks<\/a> us not only to welcome them with open arms, but to also reward them and give them the same rights and liberties that we have as citizens. The u. S. Is a nation governed by the rule of law. When our government decides to condone and reward those who have broken the law, we cease to be a nation of laws and instead race down a slippery slope called tyranny and chaos. And it will not stop with daca, which experts say will reach over 2. 3 work permits and jobs americans want but will not have. The next question will be what will congress do with the parents of illegals . Right behind that will be those who will be labelled as law awi abiding illegals. Certainly these 10plus million will expect a special status to live out their dreams also. Why should they be penalized . What about those who have only committed minor crimes . What if those countries dont want them or refuse to take them . What will we do then . You see, the list of exceptions is endless, as will be the flow of undocumented aliens pouring across the border, which you refuse to secure. I remind all the members of congress that you work for we the people. There are some members of congress who understand this and have dedicated their lives to the people. Unfortunately, there are far too many other whos are dedicated to furthering their own agendas. America first no longer matters to them. I stand here today for we the people. Our fellow citizens are dying at the hands of those who should not be here in the first place while Congress Fails<\/a> to respond adequately. You instead bicker like children on the playground at recess. All the while, the consequences of their actions or inactions are ignored. Our families are permanently separated from our loved ones while you fret over the polite of the daca children brought here illegally. Who, by the way, are up to 35 years old. Isnt it time that you stopped and just did the job that you were hired for . In closing, when you go home tonight or this weekend and you gather with your families around the dining room table, why dont you go ahead and decide what child, parent or grandparent are you willing to sacrifice so that others here illegally can realize their dreams . Thank you. I would be happy to take your questions. Ms. Marquez . Thank you, chairman. And i would also like to thank Ranking Member<\/a> feinstein and the members of this committee for giving me the opportunity to testify today. It is a great honor. My name is denise rojas marquez, im 28 years old and im a recipient of the deferred action for Childhood Arrivals Program<\/a> and im among the 800,000 individuals approved for this program. The United States<\/a> has been my home for 27 years. I consider myself an undocumented american, a proud californian, and most recently a new yorker. Im currently studying medicine at mount sinai in new york city. And after graduation, i intend to work in underserved communities as a doctor here in the United States<\/a>. My family and i settled in fremont, california, from mexico in 1990. I was less than a year old. I took my first steps in a twobedroom apartment where i lived most of my childhood. My mother tells me that before i started school i was so eager to speak in english that i would call my relatives over the phone, declare i had learned english and proceed to speak in jibberish. From volunteering as an alter server at my church to teaching second graders how to read, i spent most of my teenager summers serving and giving back to my community. While attending college at uc berkeley, my situation grew difficult. Commuting over an hour each way to school and lacking proper documents to participate in most academic programs were just some of the obstacles i faced. My family and i also feared being detained by immigration officials. And because of these fears, we lived in a nondescript apartment complex which was tucked away in the further corner from the street. I was terrified of leaving home most days, looking over my shoulder to see if someone was following me, and i also constantly worried about my future. When daca arrived in 2012, it was a relief to me and so many. It was a hope that we could continue our educational endeavors, resume our careers and for people to simply let themselves dream of a better future. I diligently filled out my application, which included a background check. It felt surreal when theta ka approv my sister and i held each other in tears. Daca was the daca was the ski to securing a drivers license, obtaining employment and gaining acceptance to medical school. Because of daca, it lifted me out of the shadows and i no longer lived in fear. In the years since the daca announcement, i have been able to finish college, publish in a top academic journal and cofounded a National Organization<\/a> called preheld d. R. E. A. M. Ers which serves roughly 800,000 youth who like myself pursue a career in health. My successes are also road rooted in the lessons my family taught me growing up. Leaving mexico with less than a high school education, my mother in america learned english. She had obtained a High School Equivalency<\/a> diploma and a nursing degree. Watching her study chemistry in the night while providing for my siblings and me taught me hard work, determination and resiliency. My father, who has worked in a variety of trades, taught me that the two most important ingredients for success are humility and creativity. Nearly a month ago on september 5th, President Trump<\/a> announced that he was ending daca. To me, this means that i will not be able to practice as a doctor. I dont know how ill survive after graduation. How will i pay my rent . How will i pay off my loans . How will i have income for food and other basic necessities . In the past five years, 800,000 have submitted applications, undergone extensive background checks and completed other requirements. Because of daca, people have been able to find employment, start families, buy homes, go to school, even start small businesses. Daca has allowed us to lead almost normal lives and give back to our communities. Now the fates of 800,000 individuals rest in your hands and we desperately need your help. If congress doesnt act soon and daca expires on march 5th, 2018, an estimated 1,400 people like me will lose their daca every day. People will lose their jobs, their homes, and all of those who depend on them will suffer, too. I implore the president to continue the daca program and protect Daca Recipients<\/a> until Congress Acts<\/a> to pass a permanent solution. And i am asking you to pass the d. R. E. A. M. Act. Legislation that provides a longterm solution for all undocumented youth and young adults. My name is denise rojas marquez, i am 28 years old, a proud undocumented american and soon to be doctor. I have loved this country for as long as i can remember. For me and for so many others, this is the only country we know and the only place that we belong. The clock is ticking, so i ask you this, will you fight to defend our dreams . Thank you. Well have fiveminute rounds. Ms. Vaughn, businesses across the country have opted to use the everify system to help comply with our immigration laws. In 2016, everify reached about half of the new hires nationwide. Its a proven tool for employers, including people like myself hiring people here in the office in washington that helps reduce ilLegal Immigration<\/a> and safeguards jobs and opportunities for american workers. Clearly, everify works. Do you agree that everify is the most effective, costeffective way to reduce ilLegal Immigration<\/a> . I do agree with that very strongly. We know through our research that the main reason people come here or attempt to settle here illegally is because they believe that they can get a job. And thats why they come here. This is the most effective tool we have. The people who use it my Organization Uses<\/a> it, and like many other employers, we find it easy to use and effective in avoiding hiring people who lack Work Authorization<\/a>. I think that would probably be the single most effective improvement that we could make to Immigration Enforcement<\/a>, but its not really enforcement, its compliance. Its, you know, it works to deter ilLegal Immigration<\/a> and will help change the equation that people are thinking of when they are deciding whether or not to come here illegally. That if we take away that job magnet or at least reduce it, that will make the job of i. C. E. And the Border Patrol<\/a> and everyone else involved in enforcing our immigration laws that much easier because fewer people will try to come here. I think you partly answered the second and third part of my question, but would you able to quantify how much the unauthorized immigrant pop lace would be reduced if mandatory everify was required . There has been some research on this and some other scholars who have studied this modelled it out and found that by adopting mandatory work site verification like everify, that over five years the illegal unauthorized work illegal workers could be reduced by probably about 50 . I mean, we estimate that half of the estimated 8 million illegal workers are working on the books for an employer, usually using a stolen or fake Social Security<\/a> number. And that is the exact problem that everify gets to, is making sure that we have a system of identifiers that has some integrity and protects the identity of americans. If we haddence hansed and Border Security<\/a>, would it be effective without everify . I think it would i think that this prospect of being able to work here is what motivates people to pay a smuggler to try to get here illegally, and think th as long as we fail to address the attraction of the job market here and employers are bypassing legal workers and can get away with illegal hiring, that creates an incentive for people to keep coming here. I dont think we will solve the border problem and the visa overstay problem unless we adopt everify and address illegal employment. Also for you, we hear a lot of estimates about the educational economic attainment of beneficiaries, but as far as i can tell, there isnt backed up by much research. We have robert gonzalez, a 2000 daca survey. These eligible respondents produced some results that would go Something Like<\/a> 74 of the respondents live in lowincome households. 22 had graduated from college and 20 dropped out of high school. Now, of course, this is only a survey. The results are telling. If we consider some type of fix for Daca Recipients<\/a>, is it important to have more precise information . In your research, have you been able to verify mr. Gonzalezs survey results . Does your research suggest that the daca population as a whole mirrors the break downs of that survey . It does seem to. Youre right, there is not a lot of research out there. I thought dr. Gonzalezs survey results were very interesting, and while he acknowledges there are some problems with his methodology, it also interestingly enough is corroborated by some of the other research that has been done using Census Bureau<\/a> data, specifically a report by the Migration Policy Institute<\/a> where they also found that they thought about one in five of the daca eligible population were adult whos had not finished high school and some of the uh again, the income levels and access to public assistance findings have been corroborated with these other censusbased research, but, i mean, the big problem is we dont know much you know, people speculate and come up with proxies and try to use Census Bureau<\/a> and take surveys and so on, but uscis has some information that would be interesting and i think helpful to Congress Moving<\/a> forward to find out about actual recipients of daca, and i think that they should be asked to disclose some of that information to help you decide, you know, what the impacts are going to be and how to move forward. And should be encouraged to do that. They know where people live. They know their educational status. They know their english attainment. Criminal histories. All of these questions that we have, you know, there are some answers there within our own government that would be helpful. And they could do a survey, too, that would be more robust with a randomly selected group of respondents. Senator feinstein . Let me ask, ms. Vaughn, where do you find denise undeserving . Where do you find to blame her im not saying you blame her, but in terms of a policy, the immigration situation blames her. She because of a choice made by her parent was brought here. The parent probably had a very hard time, looked for a brighter future, had a small child, a year old, came to this country and this small child struggled and evolved into one wonderful, special person. How does the people like her, and they are truly like her, get the blame for other problems with our immigration policy . And i know what they are. Ive been a mayor. Ive seen what happened with kate steinle. There are a lot of problems out there. But this is a population that is contributing, is educating, is serving in the military, is proud and knows nothing else but america. Why should america reject them . Well, i dont think america should reject them, and i dont think americans blame people with daca for this situation. I think that theyre upset that our failure to enforce our immigration laws over decades has led to the situation that we have now with reestimate about 12 Million People<\/a> in the country illegally and, you know, they want to see this revolved. To the extent possible so youre saying. Recognize that there are moving parts. So youre saying that your testimony is really not about daca, whether this is a good bill to put forward . I think that congress should take steps to address the status of people with daca, but only if it also takes steps to balance out the effects that were going to see in chain migration and also get to the root of the problem, you know, where really the blame is, is our failure to enforce our immigration laws and to take steps to maybe sure that Going Forward<\/a> we do enforce our laws and so that we prevent further ilLegal Immigration<\/a> and address the fiscal costs that are inevitable. So, if i understand you correctly, then youre saying daca isnt the problem . If we can address our laws, such as increasing the Border Patrol<\/a>, such as seeing that there is practical and Adequate Security<\/a> on the border, perhaps everify, whatever the mechanisms are, that you would be satisfied . Well, there were some problems with daca, the fact that it was improperly implemented without approval from congress. Yes, but thats by executive order. Thats done now. I mean, were right. And also the careless implementation of it does have to be addressed because if there is to be an amnesty for people with daca, we have to recognize that there as much as there are many wonderful people who did receive it, there were some mistakes made in the issuance of benefits to people who should not have received them. For example, the people who well, there have been revocations, some 2,000 of them. Right. There has been that introspection and examination, and i think i think that needs to be recognized. Yes, i agree, and thats why, you know, i cant be a guaranteed conversion from daca status to green card without some review to make sure that the application wasnt fraudulent or, you know, other problems with it, but i think the agency can deal with that. I think that Congress Needs<\/a> to make sure that uscis collects enough in fees to so that other legal immigrants are not subsidizing any, you know, Legalization Program<\/a> or amnesty. I think all of this is possible. But i think that we need to recognize that just, you know, simply converting people with daca to green cards is not going to address the underlying problems that are to blame for this situation. I understand. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator durbin. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Hartzell, im saddened by the story you told. Im sorry your family suffered such a tragic loss. I really am. Thank you. I can assure you, and its not much comfort to you, but there has not been a single approach that weve considered for any of these Daca Recipients<\/a> or d. R. E. A. M. Ers that didnt involve a criminal background check. We do not want people who are going to commit Violent Crimes<\/a> in this country. We certainly dont want them coming here and expect them to be treated royally or forgiven for that. That is unacceptable and im sorry your family went through that. Thank you, sir. Ms. Vaughn, i worked for six months on the comprehensive Immigration Reform<\/a>. Did you know it included everify . Yes. Thats why i had hopes that Congress Might<\/a> be willing to include that in legislation. Well, we certainly want to, but as i said, we cant put on the backs of daca and d. R. E. A. M. Ers comprehensive Immigration Reform<\/a>. Because part of it was that the people came out of the shadows, registered with the government, paid their filing fee, went through a criminal background check and then turned in the information so we could monitor them. And on a renewal basis for a regular period of time. That was part of everify so once and for all we would get this behind us. It passed the senate with 68 votes. We had 14 republicans vote for it and they wouldnt take it up in the republican house. We also in order to pass it put more Border Security<\/a> than anyones ever seen in the history of this country into that bill. The corker hoecven amendment. I voted for it. I personally think we overdid it. But we made the commitment so there was balanced Border Security<\/a> on one hand, everify and registration of those who were undocumented and then, of course, the d. R. E. A. M. Ers and a category giving them a chance. It was comprehensive and we couldnt get the support that we needed to get it past. But its critical as far as im concerned that we do comprehensive Immigration Reform<\/a>. Not just for all of reasons that you mentioned, but because finally we need a system that works. And i might add that this notion about chain migration, if you think about it for just a second, if we say under daca you had to be under the age of 16 when you came to the United States<\/a>, then chain migration for ultimate d. R. E. A. M. Ers and daca members will not include their children. Any children they have are already born in the United States<\/a>. So when you put that in as a category of there are going to be two new immigrants for every daca recipient, dont include their children. That just doesnt work. That violates the laws of america and violates the laws of biology. No, i did not include them in the calculation. Really, its parents, spouses and relatives of those relatives that were calculated in my well, some the children of the people with daca are citizens. Thats exactly my point. When it gets beyond parents, spouses and children, you get into a long, long, long waiting list. Sometimes 20 years before youd even be considered to come to this country. Well, actually parents come in in unlimited numbers. Besides parents, spouses and children. Its the other siblings and such that have to wait forever and ever. Thats the way it is already. It doesnt change a bit. Ms. Rojas marquez, there are 28 medical students at loila college of medicine in chicago. If they dont have daca extended, they cannot apply for residencies so they can become specialists. To be a resident, you have to be able to legally work in the United States<\/a> a lot, and so those medical students are saying to us, if you dont do something about daca, our medical education comes to a halt. We cant proceed to apply for residencies. Is this one of the things that youre thinking of as we speculate about the impact . Thats exactly one of my Major Concerns<\/a> in terms of, you know, my own career. So for me i finish medical school, it would be in 2019 and my daca would expire by then. So for me, you know, there is no opportunity to apply to residency, to seek employment of any type. Most of us are from states that have portions of our states desperate for doctors. And thats where i want to work in. Thats where we want you to work. So i hope we can get the job done. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to the panel. Senator hirono and then senator blumenthal. Then if nobody else comes, well be done, except for ive got closing statements. Do you fear deport aches after march 5th if congress does not act . I absolutely fear deportation. For most of my life, that has been my reality is, you know, fearing deportation and when daca arrived and when i received my own daca it was a sigh of relief. And so after march 5th, that is something that im, you know at least for me, im eligible for the renewal, so i hopefully will be able to have my daca until two years from the renewal date, but after then for me it is a terrifying time. Were you here for the testimony of the earlier panel . I was. So you heard the testimony that there are no plans to deport using the information that the daca participants provided to government. Does that lessen your fierce of deportation . It doesnt because i hear on the news every day of families that are being separated, of individuals being deported, so i dont have, you know, a security since it seems like this is discretionary in terms of enforcement, you know, i feel like i could be in any situation where i could land in the hands of i. C. E. And have no protection in terms of being able to stay in the country. There was an acknowledgement by the Previous Panel<\/a> that even if there are no plans to use the information, that could change. So i share your concern that all of the Daca Recipients<\/a>, even those with extensions, especially if the Court Strikes<\/a> down daca in the first instance as unconstitutional or illegal, i dont know what kind of protections extensions would provide. Attorney general sessions when he announced the ending of the daca program said that daca, and i quote, denied jobs to hundreds of thousands of americans by allowing these same illegal aliens to take those jobs, end quote. He also said rescinding daca, quote, would save lives and, quote, protect communities. Do you know ms. Marquez of any factual basis for these assertions made by the attorney general . In my own personal experience, im being im training to be a doctor to save lives. So for the people, for myself and for the people that i know and in the organization that i cofounded, which includes 800 individuals across 42 states, we are training and aspiring to be health professionals. So i think the opposite of some of those remarks. Are you familiar with the study that was done by professor Roberta Gonzalez<\/a> regarding daca . Ive reviewed some of the results. Wasnt the main point of his study is that Daca Recipients<\/a> have been able to continue their education, increase their financial stability, build their careers and boost the economy even if, and his study indicates there are a number of daca eligible young people who stopped going to school, who didnt pursue higherpaying jobs because of the very situations that they were in, and that when they became Daca Recipients<\/a>, then they went back to school and were able to pursue better jobs. Isnt that what he says in his study . Yes, that is what he says in the study. And i actually have some information, it was a new study, its by the center for American Progress<\/a>, professor tom wong at uc san diego, the National Immigration<\/a> law center. This was conducted recently in august of 2017. This had it was a little bit of a larger study. It was 3,063 respondents in 46 states and the District Of Columbia<\/a>. And similar findings in terms of education, 45 of respondents were in school, 72 pursuing a bachelors degree or higher among those individuals. And for those who are currently in school, 94 of respondents said because of daca i have pursued Educational Opportunities<\/a> i previously could not. And there also was an estimate that ending daca could would result in the loss of 460. 3 billion from the national gdp over the next decade. And also in terms of employment that 91 of respondents are currently employed from the group that was surveyed. Im somewhat familiar with the c. A. P. Study, but the caters owe institute, which is a pretty conservative institution, are you aware that they have also said that eliminating daca been this is a cato estimate, that eliminating daca and deporting participants will cost the American Economy<\/a> 283 billion over the next ten years. Are you familiar with or aware of the cato . Im not familiar with the cato study. Well, i think it points out that the actual evidence based on these reports indicates that Daca Recipients<\/a> are contributing members of our community. They are not committing crimes and doing heinous things. And, in fact, i want to thank the daca participants for the contributions that they are making to our community and i certainly send my sympathies to you for what happened to your grandmother. You know, none of us are sitting here thinking that that that that having undocumented people do those kinds of crimes and not be prosecuted is acceptable to any of us. That is not the case. So my sympathies to you. And i speak as an immigrant myself, that, you know, many immigrants, many of you probably are not immigrants. That we talk about chain migration. Do you i have to say that immigrants that succeed in this country need parents and grandparents to come because everybody is working. That was my experience in my own family as an immigrant. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator blumenthal . Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you for holding this hearing. I want to join in expressing my sympathies. I think all the members of our committee feel that you deserve our condolences and our sympathies and i think that this issue often is very much clouded with emotion. Justifiable emotion. And i think that were all grateful to you for being here today. Id like to ask ms. Vaughn, are you familiar with the studies that have just been cited by senator hirono . I have yes, ive read them. Do you agree with them . I mean, you cant really agree or disagree with a survey. But you agree that theyre accurate . No, i dont think that the center for American Progress<\/a> study is was done, you know that its that its finding are necessarily reflective of the larger population. Would you agree that the daca d. R. E. A. M. Ers contribute a great deal to our economy . Im sure some of them do. I think what we found is that the daca population really spans the whole spectrum of Educational Attainment<\/a> and socioeconomic status and so on. That, you know, there are many people who have done very well. There are some who are struggling. But looking at them in the aggregate, wouldnt you agree that they are a net plus, a major net plus to our economy . I dont think that there is enough information to show that. I think do you have any surveys there are indications otherwise. Do you have surveys to show or studies to show otherwise . The only one i know of that surveyed in a in an academically sound way people who actually have daca was the harvard study, and that indicated and he also believed that even his findings skewed in favor of higher levels of education than he felt were actually present in the daca population. Is that professor gonzalez . Yes. Okay. Because my time is limited, i want to move to another topic. Im very, very troubled by the administrations approach to daca, in effect throwing it to congress and washing its hands of real leadership. I believe congress has an obligation and we have a bipartisan consensus that there is a need to provide a path forward here for people who are living here who have come here without any decision on their part. Have lived here for all of their lives virtually and contributed greatly to our country, both its economy and its culture and their communities. And im also concerned about the fairness issue of their having come forward to volunteer information with the promise that it would not be used against them. The other day senator harris asked the acting secretary of Homeland Security<\/a>, elaine duke, whether this personal information would be shared with i. C. E. And she said, quote, i cant unequivocally promise that, no, end quote. This morning, we heard at least one of the Panel Members<\/a> say that this information will in fact not be used or shared with i. C. E. That leaves at best confusion. Wouldnt you agree with me that there is certainly fundamental unfairness in using this information against these individuals to locate and deport them and possibly also, in fact i think likely a due process issue under the constitution in their having come forward with an explicit promise of the government that then is betrayed. Me . Well, the problem is is that the Obama Administration<\/a> really could not make that promise with any certainty because they, you know, the policy that they created was improperly done. Now, i dont if the daca policy is allowed to wind down without congress being able to agree on how to move forward, i dont expect and i dont see any sign, and it would be logistically very difficult, so i think its going to happen that all of a sudden people who had daca are going to become priorities for Immigration Enforcement<\/a>. That just doesnt make any sense. Well, it wouldnt have made sense a year ago to even talk about this unprecedented mass deportation of 800,000 people, but thats the reality that we face right now, correct . No. Again, i dont think thats a realistic likelihood, but i do think that its fair to the public to preserve that opportunity for i. C. E. To possibly use information that is in uscis, which is an agency of the department of Homeland Security<\/a>, in their repository if its necessary for Public Safety<\/a> or National Security<\/a> or some other compelling reason, in the same way that local Law Enforcement<\/a> agents where i live might have to go into the drivers license database to find out my address to arrest me if they had to. There are certain but if there were no compelling Public Safety<\/a> threat, and youve used the word compelling, if there were no such compelling Public Safety<\/a> threat, would you agree that it would be just plain unfair and unamerican to use this information that was gained by the government after a promise that it would not be used . And you may say that it was unwise or maybe uncertain for the administration to make that promise, but it was made by the government of the United States<\/a> of america. Well, actually, i mean, in all of this public statements about daca under the Obama Administration<\/a>, they always said that it was prosecutorial discretion that was exercised on a casebycase basis. That was not a legal status. That it was, you know, thoroughly their discretion to confer that benefit on people. So im not even with all due respect, im not really sure they did make that promise. Okay. My time is expired. I thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator coons. Thank you, chairman grassley. Thank you for holding this hearing and id like to thank both panels of witnesses for your testimony before us today. I had the pleasure of visiting with a number of d. R. E. A. M. Ers in deal earlier, Daca Recipients<\/a> who are american in every sense that i understand it except for legal status. And it is my hope that today we can send a message to some of students who i had the opportunity to mote. Im studying at Delaware State University<\/a> or studying elsewhere in my state. Stephanie Martinez Gonzalez<\/a> who is working hard to become a Law Enforcement<\/a> officer. One student who wants to be a pa pediatric oncologist. That we support them and it is possible for them to achieve the American Dream<\/a>. Ms. Rojas, i wanted to congratulate you on your accomplishments and dedication to serving others. How did your experience growing up as an undocumented immigrant in the United States<\/a> influence your decision to become a physician . Well, as being of low income and also not having we had very limited access to health care. So my family and i struggled in terms of having being able to see a doctor regularly. So this is something that has been in my family that i saw and also communities around me, just limited access to health care. And also as someone who, you know, is able i was fluent in spanish and, you know, i really connect with immigrant communities and other communities as well. I feel like, you know, i just want to be able to serve others so that people in communities are healthy and safe. So i feel loike its the values my family instilled in me to give back and to persevere is what really brought me to being a doctor, and, you know, i only hope to be able to serve. Help me better understand, if you would, how your life has changed since the introduction of daca and how your life has changed and the lives of others youve gotten to know through the prehealth d. R. E. A. M. Ers program has changed as a result of its current uncertainty. So in terms of the new announcement and or from gaining daca would you clarify at what point would you howe how our lives have changed because of daca or because of this announcement . Both. So because of daca, i can truly say in every sense i came out of the shadows. I feared leaving my apartment and, you know, was always very frightened that maybe i was followed or just, you know, i lived with a lot of uncertainty daytoday and also in terms of my future, you know, studying at uc berkeley and, you know, also, you know, wanting to give back. And yet when i thought about my graduation, you know, i wouldnt have Employment Opportunities<\/a>. Even while in berkeley, you know, there were internship programs and other programs were, you know, i wanted to apply to but i couldnt because of my immigration status. So for us and so many others, it truly lifted us out of the shadows to be able to, you know, live really almost normal lives in terms of our daytoday lives, but i think was an opportunity for us to do participate in programs, you know, gain access to job opportunities, you know, and also, you know, for example, buying homes and other opportunities that were unreachable. These are things that i never dreamed of being able to achieve when i was, you know, in college and before then. So it completely changed our lives and it turned us around and, you know, im so grateful the day that i got my daca. So this announcement for me was really difficult to hear. It felt like everything that i had worked towards could just disappear in the blink of an eye. And i know for the preheld d. R. E. A. M. Ers community, its so devastating. People are wondering, you know, should they apply to graduate programs anymore . Sort of being at a loss for hope and uncertainty that really is pervasive among me and the community that i know. So its been absolutely devastating. We dont know whats going to happen. We are really looking towards congress to find a solution. Thank you, ms. Rojas. As youve heard from a number of senators on both sides of the aisle today, we really hope we will be able to find our way towards a resolution that addresses some of the unsettled issues here, that gives some certainty to you and many other d. R. E. A. M. Ers. Ive been a sponsor of the d. R. E. A. M. Act in the past and support it. Thank you. Its my hope we will find a way to negotiate a responsible compromise and embrace the moment sooner rather than later and move forward and give predictability to folks who hope to and already have contributed to the United States<\/a> and to to our future. Thank you. Thank you. Well be done in about two minutes, but i want to thank, of course, all the witnesses. Because this has been a very important hearing, and especially you folks here that are what we call the nongovernment panel. You traveled here at your own expensed and prepared probably all by yourself for this hearing. The committee appreciates the testimony from all of the witnesses and your thoughts are going to be very crucial as we consider a pathway forward on daca. We held this hearing in order to consider how best to move forward in addressing the problems created by president obamas unconstitutional executive action. We heard from the government and outside experts and advocates for our best how best to balance this delicate issue. On one hand, we have to consider the status of hundreds of thousands of young unauthorized immigrants. On the other hand, we have to respect the wishes of Many Americans<\/a> who dont want to see our country engage in a continuous cycle of ilLegal Immigration<\/a> and amnesty. We have to keep in mind that half of the americans will only support a fix to daca if it includes Border Security<\/a> and an increased interior enforcement. There is a way to address this problem, but it requires compromise. We have great empathy for these young people. Weve heard from them today. Outstanding progress that theyve made in their lives and their contribution to our society and we want to ensure that theyre treated fairly, but we also have to make sure that we arent addressing the same exact problem ten or 15 years from now. The only way to do that is to fix our nations broken borders and beef up our interior enforcement. Many of the solutions to our nations immigration problem have garnered great bipartisan support. For example, biometric entry and exit. And there is general agreement without doubt about rooting out the criminal elements. Addressing those problems alongside of daca shouldnt be political. Its just plain Old Fashioned<\/a> common sense. Fixing daca and our enforcement problems together isnt just common sense, but it also lays the foundation for a real future discussion of our nations lawful immigration system, but we cant even have that conversation until we secure the borders and significantly reduce undocumented immigration. So i look forward to working with my colleagues on this committee and probably some people that arent on this committee. And both in the house and senate. So in a bipartisan, bicameral way as we consider a path forward, i hope the reputation of this committee over the last congress in which we voted out 31 bills, all of them nonpartisan, 18 of them got to president obama. That we have the ability in this committee to do that. I think the record of this committee shows bipartisanship and thats, of course, what its going to take to get this job done. So with that statement, i conclude the hearing except to say the record will remain open for one week for members statements and questions for witnesses, and i think that i have more questions that ill be submitting and i expect others will have questions as well. For you three here before us, thank you very much for your patience and everybody thats been so cooperative in the audience as well. Thank you for helping us expedite this hearing and for your just being nice about everything. Thank you very much. Adjourned. Thursday, were live in topeka, kansas, for the next stop on the cspan bus 50 capitals tour. Kansas lieutenant govern jennifer ky jeff kullier will be our guest on wall street journal starting at 8 45 eastern. Yesterday, officials from two United Nations<\/a> humanitarian offices announced a 340 million commitment to help more than 600,000 muslim refugees who fled to bangladesh due to violence in mi myanmar. Here is more about that now. This is 20 minutes. 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