The cspan bus tour, the 50 state capitals continues. And the cspan bus tour 50 state capitols continues. Today were in historic trenton, new jersey. First we want to talk to former governor jim mcgreavy who served from 2002 until he resigned in 2004. He joins us from the cspan bus and governor, you recently formed a Nonprofit Corporation called the new jersey Reentry Corporation. Whats its focus . The focus is to understand that for numerous individuals coming back from prison or county jail, that they need to be assisted to reclaim their lives and what we do is work with exoffenders, whether in providing for training and employment, housing, Addiction Treatment, also Legal Services to help clean up, if you will the legal wreckage of their past lives, addressing Child Support and most importantly, linking people to a federally qualified Health Center so they have the Necessary Health health care. We assist people, literally in making their lives hole and insuring working to insure they lead healthy lives. And recidivism rate is employment rate is 62 . And were grateful for the leadership of steve sweeney, governor christie. This is an issue in new jersey that has strong bipartisan support and so im blessed to do this work. When did you get interested and why . I got interested after i resigned. I went to seminary for three years and the dean of the seminary sent me up to harlem and i worked at a place called exdsz Transitional Ministry and saw men and women largely coming out of state and federal prisons. They wanted the same things i always wanted. A place to lay their head at night, three square meals a job of purpose and to live with their families but theres so many institutional barriers. Many did not have an identification but for their department of corrections id. So the difficulty of accessing benefits. The difficulty of accessing safe, secure housing and employment. And so weve worked to have if you will a onestop shop and we have one purpose and you know as a lawyer in my past life and a past Government Official i had had in a sense a familiarator of how to navigate the bureaucracy. But for someone dp coming out of prison so offen the bureaucratic requirements whether its general assistance, housing, employment and training. You have to navigate through the almost byzantine maze and thats what we do and i think we do it efelktively and this has been so much of a thrust on a bipartisan basis in new jersey and im proud of the work our clients are doing and it can be done. If i can just say its so much less expensive than prison. Prison is 55,000 a year. Theres no return on it. Every rational academic, prison administrative will say people almost invarably come out worse. Frankly the rhythms of prison. We work cooperatively on the ground to help people are eclaim their lives and for the overwhelming majority of prisoners who are serious i think weve achieved sound success. And if youd like to partace pit in our conversation with former new jersey about prisoner justice reform, 202 is the area code. 7488,001 for republicans. And finally if you have some experience at some level with prison, we want to hear about your experience. 2027488003. You used a 19 recidivism rate but the report your Reentry Corporation sent out said 53 of new jersey prisoners will be rearrested at some point after theyre released and that there is a recidivism rate of 31 . Wheres the 19 come from in . Thats within our program. But id like the give kudos to commissioner gary that new jersey understands the importance of linking people with services and i would argue this is one of the few issues where democrats and republicans come together. Ironically you look at governor pence, indiana has one of the strongest expungement laws in the country. So if were looking at the fact that we have 2 million americans incarcerated and invaryaebl 97 of which are coming home, we have to do so much better than the failure rate were achieving today which is almost 2 3 go back invaryably. 70 75 of people behind bars are clinically addicted. I think governor christie and president sweeney to their credit in new jersey have made Addiction Treatment a preferred option as opposed to incarceration. Second is housing. You need a secure sober place in which to live. And employment in training. Theres so much particularly in terms of manufacturing where lots of young people dont necessarily want to pursue. Were trying to link Vocational Education and those skills required so that individuals coming out of prison can develop the skills. Were replicating some of the good things that have been done whether its in North Carolina or kentucky or other states to make sure that, as my dad would say the best social program in the world is a job. And unfortunately when they walk out of prison theyre precluded from employment but ironically theyre almost condemned to go back to running and gunning and doping. So i think this is, god willing transsends all parties understanding the importance of Second Chances, second opportunities. Its what this nation was built on and thats why im grateful for the bipartisan strength in new jersey in supporting our reentry initiative. Of the 41,000 prisoners currently behoo hind bars in new jersey, is there a percentage of how many could be released through this program . Whether its the law of the release act or parole that everyone is almost coming back. And you can make a sound argument those who are the most violent i used to be a former prosecutor. What we need understand is that were 5 of the worlds population but were 25 of the worlds incarcerated population. Thats out of balance. Americans are not necessarily more malevolent or criminally addict addicted. In large measure our county jails and to a great extent our state prisons are frankly warehouses for those who are addicted and mentally ill. 75 of our clients are addicted and approximately 1 3 mentally ill. The question would be and i think this is a question that the governor has posed and democrats and republicans is this the moist proep ret setting and thats why governor has refired for a drug facility. Were providing exlungement for those individuals that have only drug free in charges. We need understand america pfsz imprisonment or almost prefer is not owny aly financially failed eskate and only 11 . It was a great report out of columbia university. Columbia center of Addiction Sciences and alcoholism that says only 11 of people behind bars are treated for their addiction. And so that means people are literally tolling time behind the road and theyre trying to grapple with employment, housing, and their family and theyre not at that time about to go to an Addiction Treatment center. And they said lets make the time behind the wall productive. Lets provide for enhanced employment and training. I think georgia is making that time. We need to Link Services stronger in a more pleasing look. And lastly, the Business Community has to be part of this, peter. We have great midsize new jersey corp rashzs that have decide tootd give people a break. Steve are taking people incarcerated. But what we need is major american businesses whose corporate Head Quarters are not located new jersey to understand the importance of Second Chances. If they get right with their higher power, with their god but dont for the ability with self sufficiency through employment, theyre never going to be productive tax paying citizens. If you look at murder sequences, for example. Individual murderers have among the lowest recidivism across the country. Its like a 1 to 2 . Thats because so many of our perceptions and i think we need understand to employ best practices and provide opportunities for people to be productive and transform their lives. Otherwise end this recidivism that is far too expensive. Lets hear what our viewers have to say. Steven, republican line. Steven, please go ahead. Were listening. Yes. Steven, one more chance. Go ahead. What do you want me to do . Talk about what mcgreavy said . Tell you what were go having to to move on. Once you get on the phone state your question were all listeni listening. Arnette from lancaster, South Carolina. Thank you and thank you governor mcgreavy for your human concern. Ive worked as a chaplain, also as a prison guard and in the United States air force i worked as a stalk aid person. Youve done it all. Well, when i firs got out of the air force in 1972 i worked at the va hospital in new york. My wife being from new york we transferred there. Im from North Carolina. Much of the problems that i see with prison is the criminalization of Police Departments that use human beings for their municipalities finances. Here in South Carolina the police can walk up in the yard. You can tell them that theyre tress passing but they can sit across the street with benocialers and look inside your window and come into your yard, arrest you. In my life of 69 years i only spent two nights in jail. Both from a criminalization process. I was a military policeman, worked as a desk sergeant so i was able to write complaints. Ive written three complaints to the police chief in lancaster and havent received not one answer. Lets hear what governor mcgreavy has to say. One, thank you for calling and thank you for being a prison chapel because on a personal level i find with so many of the inmates that we cant change our lives with the present level of thinking. So we rely heavily on scripture and understanding the importance of higher power whether its aa, na or faith. In new jersey weve developed really Close Relationships with Police Departments which is so important and weve worked particularly for people that have exited, have left prison. They come back the to the street and the community. We work with crisis intervention, particularly if someone has a problem with adiction. This heroin addiction and fentanyl is so pernishes and troublism is so that a person is not [ back to county jail. So we have this close cooperative relationship through various counties and municipal Police Departments that we understand after we spent all this time trying to provide employment and training that if someone relapses, we dont want to undue the work weve done but that we have close cooperative relationships with Police Departments who have been invaluable. Iras is calling in. Independent line. Well, hi. I was just wondering what a cost before you put them in prison for the court, the arrest. Thats expensive. And if youre spending 55,000 for every prisoner, i believe 55,000 for every student k through 12 would be the best spent and i believe drug deal rbz are the worse on the planet because they should be separated from the drugs while in prison and not given drugs in prison and spending too much time trying to give them a better life while children are going around with inadequate education. Keep the drugs out of our lives, get rid of them. Where theres a will, theres a way. People can find dealers all right. Iris. I thij we got the point. Governor. Iris, it reminds me of that quote ye shall reap what we shall sew. The contrast between those who complete high school and complete college and those who dont, theres a remarkable distinction in terms of the prupencety of going to prison. On the question of addiction. We have a crisis in this country and theres been a remarkable literally within the last couple of years of indeed fentanyl being bundled if you will in baking soda and what this has done what this does in terms of their neurological pathways and this is an addiction crisis. Were doing so many things right i think in new jersey in terms of housing and employment and Legal Services linking people to health care but weve got a real challenge. The importance of Law Enforcement particularly on the interdiction of synthetic opioids. This is a scourge. Weve lost clients, the numbers of which i have never seen and so i think this is going to take a full approach on behalf of congress in terms of Prescription Drug monitoring, protecting our borders as well as making treatment a preferred option. But i agree with iris and secondly, i think it was the state of new york. For the second year in a row is actually spending more money than on higher education. We have to understand that spending this inordinate amount of had dollars is not without a cost and that in an era of limited resources, it was facing other budget items that would yield greater investments such as education. And i think thats why in new jersey with the Senate President and the governor, they understand the importance of Vocational Education. Giving people the skills to compete in the marketplace, in the work force and if youre interested, youre willing to stay sober, maintain employment, then were going to give you the skills to be part of the work force and be a productive tax paying citizen and thats something all New Jerseyans should cherish. Lets hear from nitro. Lets hear about your experience with prison. Hi. I spent quite a few years ago from 1989 to 1993 in the Florida State prison system. And while i was there after i was there two 1 2 years i was offered drug treatment. By the way i went in for a nonviolent crime. I went in for drugs, specifically heroin and back then fentanyl was just being intertruced into heroin. Fentanyl is so dangerous. I have been clean for a long time. It took a long time and i have to tell you if somebodys arrested i would say this. It took time. I had been arrested many times before and gone to jail. Hello, are you there. Were listening. Tell us about when you got out of prison. I got out with 100 and a bus ticked from florida back to new york and was it not for my family, if i had had no support like many people who come out of prison do not have, i would not have had a place to live. I would not have had had food to eat. I got out and so what thats the point were trying to say. What options would you have had had . You were one, thank you for your curage and thank you for sharing because your stories give me hope and so many of our clients hope. The point were saying and if it anybodys interested please look at our website, new jersey reentry. But his point is well taken. If somebody comes out and particularly maxes out of prison and on your way out dont let the door hit you on your back side. What services are available. Thats what were trying to do. Were working with people to make sure they have access to Addiction Treatment. To make sure they have intensive out patient to keep sober. You cant be a good father. You cant be a productive employee. You cant pay your rent. So these services we have were expanding throughout the state but we understand that were going to give somebody i had a friend of mine who came out after 30 years. He said not only do the buses change but also the streets change. He didnt know how to navigate government, didnt know where it was. And so their only options would have been was frankly to go back because you have to eat the next day. You have to have a place to live. And for those of us who havent lived ape shelter, its a pretty tough place to live, let alone show up to work every day and i just think as a country this is not onlywn civil rights issue b be smarter. If were willing to spend 55 k for concrete wires, were using all existing Government Services. What governor christie did and the Senate President said was look at all these Government Services but have onestop shopping so we can help the person walking out of the prison, help him stand on his feet, get structured sober housing. Go to employment and training program. Get Legal Services to get his identification. And to lirng him to a health care. To a federally qualifies health care. Now were blessed to have the Affordable Care act. Its our clients who are heroic and there are a few. If i could say to the majority of White America to look at our clients who want to wurks want to be reunified with their family, they just want the chance and the opportunity and i think thats what were doing. Matthew henderson, North Carolina. Im an exoffender in new jersey and ive lived in several states. New jerseys programs are very well instituted considering the rest of the country. My problem being is the things that are cut off to exfelens like pelgrants or whatever theyre called now. Youre not eligible for food stamps if your going to school. Theres so many things cut off from, including jobs. Im having a problem with that now. Matthew, youre so right. And let me say and some of these restrictive laws were passed by democratic congresses and republican congresses, democratic president s and republican president s. Were going to preclude the ability of people that are coming back from earning a living, from having asistence. So what were trying to say is if someones going to come back and not have the opportunity for general assistance in the first week, what opportunity do nay have . As a former effected officials it was great sound bietd but youre condemning people to the same criminal parterns theyve had had had in the past. Say for example Senate President , his brother who happens to run an iron workers logo. Having a skill thats g