commander of the the during the rescue. from the memorial in washington, d.c., this is one hour. >> good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. i'm mark weber, curator of the united states navy memorial. today, we're pleased to have jan k. herman here to discuss his new naval institute book, "lucky few, the fall of saigon and the rescue mission of the uss kirk." mr. herman served as historian of the navy medicine department and special assistance to the surgeon general for 33 years. he's keeping busy in retirements as evidenced by this book. he has written numerous articles and books, including "battle station sick bay," "medicine and the korean war," and "navy history in vietnam." he's also produced documentary videos on medicine, including an internationally-acclaimed video on "the lucky few." join me in welcoming jan herman to the navy memorial. [ applause ] >> thank you, mark. i appreciate that introduction. at first glance, the story that you're going to hear today about the uss kirk seems like a little story. it seems like an almost insignificant tale, at that. that's at first glance. for 35 years, it remained unknown and untold. that may be for a simple reason. it's a vietnam story. when our most traumatic and divisive war ended, i should say the most divisive and traumatic since the civil war in the 1860s, when that ended, americans wanted nothing more to do with vietnam. so a lot of stories were lost. as a result, or at least not brought to the forum. the kirk, a little story, insignificant story, on the contrary. this is a vietnam story very much worth telling, and that's why i made a documentary about it. that's why i wrote "the lucky few." in 2009, i completed the final book in a trilogy i had written about navy medicine at war. it told a story, at least the last in the trilogy, called "navy medicine in vietnam," told a story of a war in my generation, vietnam. the last chapter was entitled, "full circle." it focused on the humanitarian staff that navy medical personnel played in caring for the thousands of refugees who fled south vietnam in 1975, when the nation ceased to exist. as the war reached its tragic climax in may of 1975, a task force of u.s. navy ships, about 45 in number, cruised off south vietnam's coast, anywhere from 30 to 50 miles off the coast. later, much closer in than that. the mission of the task force was to support the evacuation of americans, who were still in south vietnam. embassy personnel, intelligence operatives and military advisors. the task force was also assigned to secure the safety of what were called sensitive south vietnamese. that is, vietnamese who had helped us through the duration of the war and whose lives were not going to mean much, once the north vietnamese took over. their lives were in imminent danger. how best to record the stories of those who took care of these peop people, now people without a country? after determining the names of the ships that comprised the seven-fleet task force, 76 that participated in this, i did what most every researcher does nowadays. now, we think in terms of the old days when you had to huff it around and wear out shoe leather trying to find sources, i went to the inter net. isn't that what we do now? i checked every ship's name to determine what vessels might have reunion organizations. perhaps not every one of the 40 some odd ships, but at least some of them would have reunion organizations. they'd have a website, contact person, phone number or e-mail. the next step was e-mailing these organizations to request information about specifically what i was looking for, and that is medical personnel, from the ships. within an hour, i believe it was an hour, of hitting send on my mouse, i get a phone call from captain paul jacobs, the gentleman sitting here in the front row. who says to me on the phone, he said, well, i was the skipper of uss kirk. that was one of the ships i had sent an e-mail to, at least one of the sites, the websites. he informed me his ship, a destroyer escort, 430 some odd feet in length, certainly not large when you consider some of the other ships that were offshore, carriers, amphibs and those ships, he said, we were not only part of the task force, he said, but kirk played a very key role in the rescue of more than 30,000 of those refugees. i couldn't even comprehend what he was talking about. how does a single ship rescue 30,000 people? during the next several weeks, the captain and i communicated frequently. sometimes more than once a day. we arranged for an oral history interview at his office, at the time, in fairfax. he invited me to the ship's reunion, taking place that fall, scheduled to be held in gainesville, virginia, suburban virginia. then he asked me an interesting question, he said, if i invited the surgeon general to the reuni reunion, you think he'd come? i said, i don't know. i don't know the man very well. he's brand-new on the job, but send him an invitation. what do you have to lose? shortly thereafter, vice admiral, the in-coming surgeon general, called me into his office and said, what is this kirk reunion? what is this ship kirk? i've never heard of it. why was that ship so special? i told him what i knew. i knew considerably more than he did at that point. as i understood it, this reunion would probably be well worth attending. i think his curiosity got the best of him, and he accepted the invitation. i remember, there was a lot of scurryg around at the bureau at the time, where i worked. speechwriter was going to write a speech, because he was not only accepting the invitation, but then the captain here invited him to give an after-dinner speech. you know, you've seen them at banquets. i remember the speeman running around, getting information because he had to write a speech for the admiral. the reunion was emotional. former kirk sailors and officers in once dispossessed vietnamese who came to the reunion were seeing each other for the first time since the rescue. the admiral tossed his written text aside, threw it on a table and said, the speech i had prepared to give tonight is totally inappropriate. he went on for 20 minutes, speaking from his heart, about what he had seen. he obviously honored the crew of kirk. those members of the crew that were there that night. and he talked about what it meant in the navy to save lives. and talked about, as i remember, the selfless acts of compassion he said were in the best traditions of providing humanitarian assistance to those in need. a perfect example of what the u.s. navy does best. obviously, a war fighting capability. that's probably the major thing we do in the navy. but this humanitarian assistance aspect of it was equally important. the navy did that and did it in a very forceful and very efficient way. following the reunion, adam robinson, or admiral robinson, invited captain jacobs and me to lunch at his headquarters up on 23rd street. during the salad course, the admiral turned to me and said, quote, jan, you make documentaries. you must make a film about the kirk. people have to know about this incredible story. i nodded my assent, as you might to your boss, and i didn't know whether this was just idle lunchtime chatter or not. during the dessert course, i asked the admiral if he was serious about me producing a film. looking directly at me, only the way a three-star admiral can, he said firmly and unequivocally, would i have suggested it if i weren't serious? [ laughter ]. >> aye, aye, sir. more than two years of challenging research followed, and we went on to produce a film. i spent countless hours pouring over ships logs, particularly the kirk logs. and other documents in writing and rewriting the script, i can't tell you how many times that happened. my poor wife, who is here, she can attest to how many hours i was absent from her presence, hiding in a room doing all this. and we also had pictures that were loaned to us by the crew, and that was another wonderful thing about this project. there were no combat photographers aboard kirk when all this was going on. there were a number of very gifted amateur photographers who told photographs. i had access to all those photographs. then we got footage from the national archives, navy collections and new service archives, and finally, we recorded the narration and began putting this together. at the kirk reunion, the next reunion in 2010, with admiral robinson again in attendance, we showed "the lucky few, the story of uss kirk." after that, public radio a, npr aired stories of the uss kirk. "the lucky few" premiered at the smithsonian in 2010. it became obvious to me and other interested parties that a one-hour film could scarily do justice to this previously untold story. why had the incident been overlooked for so many years? as i already indicated, the answer most likely had to do with america's mood in 1975. the national nightmare of veet ma'am w -- vietnam was over and it was best to move on. it was best left forgotten. moreover, the men of kirk and vi crewmen of the other ships who participated in the rescue didn't think they did anything extraordinary. the heros of any of the wars i've interviewed over the years, you get the same thing. i was just doing my job. they didn't think they'd done anything extraordinary at all. feeding refugees and diapering babies were not war-related activities that warriors felt comfortable talking about over a beer at a bfw hall or american legion hall. the other guys are talking about exploits in combat, and the kirk people, we diapered babies. we took care of people. they didn't want to bring it up. they certainly didn't bring it up with their families. many families said to me, i never knew my husband or father had anything to do with this. surprisingly, many of the refugees didn't give their recollections to their children and now grandchildren. more than 30 years has not softened the trauma of their loss of country and loss of friends and relatives. the gatherings, which enabled many of the sailors and officers to mingle with former refugees rescind rekindled memories. a former man rescued by kirk noted that he counted himself at a gathering, quote, among the lucky few. he wanted to express his sense of gratitude to the people who had saved and brought him and his family to freedom. like other vietnamese who made new lives for themselves and their famithers and mothermil f able to personally thank those who saved them. seeing the tangible results of their wartime duty, the men of uss kirk could take pride in what they had accomplished. the lucky few experience, and i will call it an experience of phenomen phenomenon, at least it is for me and the captain and many other people who had been involved in this, they finally got to reunite with the people they hatterd rescued. there is a perfect example of the crew acknowledging their contribution. don cox, former airman who participated in this operation, put the thoughts into perspective. nobody has put it better. this is a quote. our feelings abiliout being in vietnam changed significantly. we'd gone with expectations of being in combat. they were prepared for it, trained for it, and that was the action we were looking for. when we got there, we found out that combat wasn't what was needed. it was a heart and hand that was needed. we didn't recognize it at first. we just did our jobs. it was afterward that we realized our vietnam experience was totally different from our brothers who had walked in the field in combat. we recognized that it was going to be a positive experience for the rest of our lives. we were there to save life, not to destroy it. writing a book based on the lucky few documentary offered many opportunities to tell as much of the story as possible, and also to incorporate what had unfortunately ended up on the p perverbial floor. most of the times, the book comes before the movie. i would change that, with adding flash to the bones of an already larger than life event. that's what i did. one of the players in this drama, the lucky few drama, eric, who was, in 1975, a high-ranking official of the department of defense, recreent pointed out the story's true significan significance. after the war, president ford's task force for the resettlement of indo-china refugees resettled more than 130,000 evacuees from cambodia and south vietnam. resettled them in communities around the united states. it wasn't long before almost all of them became united states citizens. since uss kirk and her sister u.s. navy ships saved more than 30,000 south vietnamese refugees, that means that 1 in every 4 vietnamese refugee resettled in the u.s. by the task force, can trace their new begins in this nation to the mission accomplished by uss kirk. decades later, the true significance of the rescue comes into perspective in ironic ways. let me tell you a story to illustrate what i'm talking about. just about a year and a half ago, i guess it was, hugh doyle, the ship's engineer aboard kirk, he had spent a career in the navy. he retired from the navy. he lives in the newport, rhode island signatuvicinity. gets his medical care at the naval station in newport. he went for his annual physical and looked for his navy physician, who wasn't there. where is my regular doc? >> he's been he's been reassigned to pensacola, florida. your new physician is a lieutenant commander. well, hugh doyle thought it was odd but he met his physician. he said, i notice you have a vietnamese name. can you tell me how your family got here? the doctor said, no, i really can't. he said, i came as a 1-year-old boy. my family fled vietnam. all i know is they came on a ship, but i don't know much about it because my parents never talk about it. my father is now disea deceased. my mother only speaks vietnamese and never talks about it. as things turn out, hugh doyle had a copy of the video in his car, "the lucky few." he went out and gave it to him. go home and watch this and see if it means anything to you. the next time he goes back for another examination or appointment at the clinic, he asked the doctor if he saw the film. he said, yes, it's a very nice film, but it really doesn't add anything to my story. i don't recognize any of it. he says, but my sister and brother-in-law are coming east. my niece is going to boston college, and they're going to be taking her there. they're going to be spending time with us. i'll show them the film and see if my sister recognizes it. she was 15 at the time. the next time hugh doyle goes back for his appointment, the doctor is so excited. he said, i showed the family the film, and my sister was blown away. she saw the ship. in the film. she remembered the hall number, hq1. that was the ship. it was the kirk who saved us. it was the kirk who saved our family. so hugh doyle said to me and others, he said, what are the odds, the family would have made it out of vietnam? what are the odds they would have gone on one of the ships? what are the odds they would have made it to california? safely. what are the odds they would have sent their eldest son to medical school? what are the odds he would become a navy physician? what are the odds that he would be assigned to naval clinic newport and become my doctor? he said, the little boy we saved is now taking care of me. that kind of says it. it says it, and there have been many other examples of that. again, it's the question i asked at the beginning. the story of uss kirk, a small story, insignificant one, i hardly think so. read "the lucky few" and decide for yourself. what i'd like to do now is read a few short excerpts from the book, just to give you a feel for what's inside. this is from the introduction. lieutenant bob was up before dawn and had wandered into uss kirk's combat information center. as an aid on the destroyer squadron staff, he was not a regular member of the crew. therefore, had no business in cic. combat was always buzzing with activity, and it was not unusual for officers to pop in, both to relieve the boredom and catch up on the ship's operations. amid the many radar scopes was a radar repeated that consolidated information from the other displays. one look at the screen put everything in perspective. distance to the south vietnamese coast and the position of nearby vessels and their movements. each green blip was a ship, making it easy to quickly see the location of every craft on a master grid. but the screen image appeared odd. the shoreline was out of focus. he pointed out the problem and asked a nearby tech if the radar had been tuned recently. thinking it might have lost some of its fidelity. the tech quickly responded. yes, sir, it has been. there's nothing wrong with the radar. he wasn't satisfied. going topside to the flying bridge, he larged the binoculars, the big eyes, and scanned the brightening horizon. the mystery of the blurry radar screen instantly cleared up. hundreds of boats were heading to sea in kirk's direction. it looked fuzzy because there was so much activity on the water. as the distance the distance cl every type of water craft from small fishing vessels to rubber rafts. he was shocked to see a small wooden dug with a man, woman, and children clinging for dear life. on that dugout were all the family positions. these people were simply paddling out to sea hoping to get to the rescue ships he remembered. the magnitude of a nation's final collapse suddenly became real and personal. since march 1975 the south vietnamese army had been hard pressed. the people's army of vietnam was fighting a conventional war with tanks and artillery. the enemy was rolling south along route one and taking every coastal city in its path. names that had etched deep stars in the american psyche after years of war took the headlines, da nang, cameron bay. in the central highlandself north vietnamese divisions sliced eastward. for days prior to the fall of saigon, the by-products of that relentless conquest were thousands of panicked refugees trying to flee the country in anything that would float. and then just a short little excerpt from chapter three entitle "dunkirk in reverse." the morning of april 29th, 1975, dawned with intermittent rain squalls scudding across a broken overcast sky with visibility about a mile. it would have been a typical beginning to an ordinary day on south china sea were it not for the presence of so many gray-hulled ships of the u.s. navy bobbing on the flat leaden sea. aboard "uss kirk" another morning routine was about to begin. a recording of reveille cracked over the ship's mc. sailors went for the showers. others pulled on their work uniforms. begun ga ris and dotton shirts that were perpendicular pet you'll clammy from tropical humidity and headed to the galley for morning chow, a ritual that for some was the highlight of their day. the same procedure was also taking place in officers' country. if a sailor's life had its dreary repetitive duties, navy fare was not one of them. a subject on which enlisted and officers could agree. if it wasn't haut cuisine, at least could all chow on on plenty of eggs, fried or scrambles, french toast, bacon, hash browns, toast, and jelly. the officers and enlisted men also had a modest selection of dry cereal in little boxes. breakfast chow was washed down with copious amounts of strong navy coffee, milk, thin orange juice, or the ewe bik what tus and legendary bug juice, a sugary grape colored kool-aid-like beverage. the enlisted men and officer's ward room had one point in common. both were gathering place where is men could discuss the day's events aboard their encapsulated floating world. chiefs or first class petty officers presiding as division heads called morning muster, an age-old navy ritual. who was present for duty and who would end up on the sick list. after reading the plan of the day, the men would head for their appropriate stations and begin their duties. back in the ward room conversation focused on what was happening or about to happen. a nation in its death throes less than a dozen miles away dominated their thoughts and their words. the previous night, april 28th, the ship had been ordered to proceed closer to the beach, 12 miles away. the frequent wind evacuations were apparently about to begin. machinist mate kent chipman was on deck talking about the impending operation with several of his ship mates. everybody was just standing around anxious and wondering. it was very quiet and then suddenly the whole sky filled with helicopters. you could hear them coming, that thump, thump, thump from miles and miles away. hugh doyle was astounded recalling all of a sudden we were looking around there's one, then two, then eight, then 12, then 15, then 25. pretty soon they were all swarming out. it was totally unexpected. unexpected perhaps, but not surprising. marine and air force helicopters loaded up with evacuees from saigon and then headed back out to sea to discharge their human cargos just like homing pigeons. hundreds of souxhñ vietnamese ar force uh-1 hueys followed close behind hoping to land on the same ships. it was a natural decision for many vietnamese pilots. as it turned out, the fear of remaining behind was very real. the night before a south vietnamese ch-47 chinook helicopter filled with women, children, and several elderly passengers landed on "uss blue ridge." "blue ridge" was the flagship of the task force. lieutenant commander daniel daily, daniel daily was an aide to rear admiral donald whitmire who was the commander of the task force. lieutenant commander daily noted that the pilot had not even radioed or requested permission to land. he explained the war was lost and had been told that the vietcong planned to cut off the hands and feet of all pilots and kill their families. feeling he had nothing to lose and a lot to gain, the pilot stole the helicopter and flew to his neighborhood and picked up family and friends. just before 11:00 a.m., kirk's cic reported an inbound south vietnamese helicopter which then flew overhead and out of sight. the crew noted that all the vietnamese helicopters thumped over the top of their relatively small ship looking for bigger targets to land on hopefully just over the horizon. from there altitude, doyle realized, they could probably see them, the blue ridge, the hancock, and the midway. and all the rest of those ships that were receiving the big helicopters. doyle and his fellow crewmates were suddenly caught up in the drama and saw the possibilities. we never anticipated a helicopter landing on us, but we started talking about it. chief engineer doyle recalled. wouldn't it be great to grab a helicopter? wouldn't it be great to take part in this? the captain also seemed eager to take a trophy home, but we were getting frustrated because these helicopters kept flying right over the top of us in great numbers. doyle added with astonishment, could you look around and maybe one 90 degree quadrant of the sky would have 15 or 20 helicopters at various altitudes and various distances and all heading out 20 sea. the captain kept saying can't they see our flight deck in can't they tell there's something right here? why don't they land on us? wishing for a trophy quickly turned into the act of acquiring one. storekeeper first class jeffrey swan, who had learned rudimentary vietnamese during an earlier tour in vietnam was called to cic. an attempt to advertise kirk's hospitali hospitality, he began broadcasting on the air distress frequency. chip 1087 land here. kirk prepared for a possible landing. an alarm sounded followed by flight quarters, flight quarters. 19-year-old airman gerald mcclellan, assigned to kirk's lamp's helicopter detachment hustled to the hangar, put on his safety gear, yellow flotation vest, goggles and cranial at the same time the four-main fire crew took their station. one were distinctive silver asbestos suit and hood. mcclellan took his position, his back to the right of the hangar door and facing aft. after bim was painted white circle with an k3678d "x" in th center. around 2:00 p.m. after nearly two hours of broadcasting an invitation a south vietnamese huey finally turned inbound to kirk with its navigation lights turned on. mcclellan began motioning signals to the pilot. with his two arms extended he beckoned the huey to the center of the flight deck. he held his arms out parallel to the deck. with the helicopter just feet above the deck, the airmen brought in his arms and crossed them which was the sign to land. it was a textbook landing and all who watched mcclellan's skillful and fearless ballet breathed more easily. kirk had her trophy. and then one last final excerpt. i think we talk about all this, we've talking about it -- i have been talking about it from the standpoint of the kirk and the crew. 30,000 refugees is a staggering number to consider. included in that number, and it is just a number, were men, women, and children with names and individual stories. i'd like to end with an excerpt from chapter seven entitledin "vessels of toount." wan was 17 married to a south vietnamese air force pilot 12 years her senior and about to give birth to her first child. her grandparents, refugees, had moved south with the great migration in 1954. she recalled her family's fears about communism saying my grandparents knew about communists and knew we could not live with them. nor could lon live with terror. as saigon descended into chaos with the imminent arrival of the north vietnamese army, lon and her extended family had already planned their getaway. preparations had begun weeks before. together they purchased a small boat which they had moored on the saigon river. if and when the capital fell, they would rendezvous at the dock and head down river but they didn't discuss what might happen when they reached the open sea. as the north vietnamese army surrounded the city on april 28th, lon's husband on duty with his unit called and told lon's grandparents that the time had come. they were all to meet at the boat and depart as quickly as possible, but lon, her mother, and uncle were already at the airport trying to get a flight out when incoming rockets and mortars pocked the runways making the airport unusable. just after midnight the trio abandoned the airport, lon's husband chose to remain with his unit at least for the present. it is no good for a soldier to leave, he told his young wife. since lon was due anytime, her mother suggested they go to the hospital, but saigon was in chaos. lob and her mother sought the uncertain comfort of what had until recently been her grandparents' home which was now empty. both women felt overcome with loneliness and fear. very early the next morning after a mostly sleepless night, two women welcomed a driver who showed up at the front door. he knew the family and had at least some reassuring news. the family boat was still at the dock. nothing to worry about. would he take them there, lon asked? he agreed, but they would have to wait until that evening. the driver returned as prommed around 9:00 p.m. and they piled into his car. it was raining and storming and people running. it was very hard to get through the traffic lon recalled. finally they reached the river but when the young -- but when they got there the young woman's heart sank. the family boat had left without them. or had it? it appeared to be on the far riverbank. plunging into the river and swimming to the far side briefly crossed her mind but the distance was too great. lon knew she would never make it in her condition. and what about her mother? suddenly it happened like, that i saw the boat from the other side of the river come over to where we were lon called to mind as if it was just yesterday. i was very glad, i said, hey, the boat is here. the boat cautiously approached the river's edge but boulders with hi been deposted on the river bank had the situation hazardous. i could not get on the boat. my mom say our names and then three of my husband's cousins helped me climb on the boat. the miracle of the craft's appearance as it turned out had been accidental. high water had prevented the small craft from proceeding beneath one of saigon's many bridges, so this party of escapees had to return to their starting point to wait for the river to drop. lorn's timing had been fortuito fortuitous. shortly after lon, her mother, and their driver boarded, they passed under the bridge with just feet to spare but the group was nottout of danger. tracer rounds lit the night sky and the sta kaco of arms fire punctuated the night. it was difficult to determine whether communist troops or disgruntled sources had been the source. when desserts we-- desserters we firing their weapons in frustration and rage. reaching the south china sea offered relief from the violence but no respite from anxiety and uncertainty. what now? although the seas were calm, the refugees faced a very uncertain future. lon suddenly began to feel the first twinges of labor. luckily i don't have the baby, just the labor pains. later that day, april 30th, the refugees watched a large american warship approach. it was "uss kirk." at the time lon was curled up trying to get some rest and felt the boat begin to rock. then i looked up from the bottom of the boat to see this very big ship. i don't even see the whole picture of the ship, just some of it. in my heart i know this must be american ship. everyone was so grateful and happy because we know that we will survive and the americans would help us. "uss kirk" motor wheel boat pulled alongside with food, water, medical assistance, and hope. thank you very much. i will take questions if anyone has them. [ applause ] thank you. questions about the kirk? dick? >> a yes for captain jacobs. do you have a couple things you'd like to share with us, your experience? >> i can share a couple things. one question i generally get is who gave you permission to push those helicopters over the side? and i say to them this, i grew up in new england, and you never asked permission to do a god damn thing. you just do it to the best of your ability. i made that statement at the smithsonian in 2010, november 2010, and i thought four admirals were going to fall off the front seats but they also said to me, i wish i could get that spirit in some of my staff right now. the other one is lan tran, what he just mentioned. she's affectionately known as mauvy at stbn in orange county, california. and sbtn has helped us contact a lot of vietnamese who want to make connections with the kirk sailors. two profound emotions going on. one is the vietnamese want to find that kirk sailor who took care of them and the kirk sailor, where is that family i took care of. those who are pow parts and i think that's what the admiral saw in october 2007 i believe it was, right? anyways, he'd become a very good friend and i certainly appreciate all what he's done, but we did the job and went home until he called me about telling about this story, no one had said a thing. remember now, i could hardly get my crew ashore in san diego without being spit upon. it was a very traumatic condition. so as a skipper, you're still the crew's commanding officer, and they treat me that way even today. but little story. when you go from -- after we got ourselves cleaned up and my whale boat was totally destr destroyed. we rode to back and forth all the way back to the bay carrying food, medical supplies and everything. b bow sun mates were basically crying because it was pristine clean. we go to japan, go to korea, and we come back upkeep in guam. by that time they had 200,000, 300,000 vietnamese on the right-hand side coming in. people came running down to the water raising their hands. what do you think this crew did? this would be their first day of liberty since they left the states in march of 2000 -- i mean 1975. they took their money and they went over to the commissary and exchange, bought food, supplies, clothes, took it up and gave it to the vietnamese. see, i think the american people need to know that. >> thank you, captain. [ applause ] >> paul. >> well, there's a postscript that jan did not mention. lon's baby has the middle name of kirk in honor of the shape, and i have watched that video maybe half a dozen times and it brings tears to my eyes every time. >> thank you, paul. lon tian tron, her daughter, lon's daughter, grew up with this name in the middle of her long vietnamese name, there's this kirk in there and she kept asking her mom, am i named for captain kirk on "star trek," and she said, no, you're not. finally she said let me tell you the story of the "uss kirk" and she told her young daughter why she was named kirk in honor of the ship that saved them. other questions? >> did they get reunited with the husband? >> yes, they did. they did get reunited. unfortunately he passed on. he was a bit older than lon. he passed on about the year 2000 or 2001, but she's -- she runs this radio -- she doesn't run the station, but the captain alluded to sbtn which is called the saigon broadcasting television network, and the vietnamese in this country, vietnamese-americans now in this country, there are large communities. the largest is orange county, california, but there are communities in northern virginia and new orleans area, houston, dallas has a large community, and there's also a very large community in the seattle area. believe it or not, some of these refugees, not all of them came here. i was surprised to learn there are vietnamese communities in germany, in scandinavia, in australia. obviously that would make sense, and new zealand. but i was surprised to learn that there are some even living in germany, and they're connected by this sbtn, the saigon broadcasting television network. we were able to find a pilot, a street into meese pilot, who performed -- i didn't mention it, but performed a very heroic act in getting the -- his passengers off a ch-47 chinook that was going to land on kirk, couldn't obviously because of the size of it. but the people jumped out and crew members caught them. mothers were throwing their babies out and kirk crew members were hauling them in like touchdown passes. and we wanted to find that pilot to honor him, and i said to the captain, i said, what's his name? does anybody know the name of the pilot? i'm glad he didn't say his name was nguyen, but it turned out it was. he said, no, we never took the name of the pilot. he said there was just too much going on. i wish we had. well, the captain and i were invited to be on a program on a local vietnamese television broadcast out of falls church, and we were interviewed about the project, and when it was over the host, it was vietnamese-american who had been a refugee said is there anything we can do for you? and i said, yeah, we'd love to find the pilot of that chinook. and so that program we were on was distributed to the other sbtn locations, and it was probably about six or eight weeks later and the captain called me and said i just got a call from a young man named mickey nguyen. he said he was on that helicopter. it was his father who was the pilot and his mother and the rest of the family were on that helicopter that people jumped out. when we heard that, my crew and i, we hustled it out to seattle, and we interviewed mickey and his mom. unfortunately, his father was in advanced stages of alzheimer's, a pilot, and he couldn't speak to us, but he did show up to the reunion in 2010 when we showed the film for the first time. very emotional. we didn't know how much -- we showed the film, we had the dinner, we showed the film, and the pilot bao nguyen was seated in the back with his family and he saw this on the screen and he made grunting sounds. that's all he could do, and we didn't know whether he recognized but we think he did. and the plan was to see that he was given an air medal for his airmanship. the navy couldn't provide that, he wasn't in the u.s. navy but we managed to get an air medal and the kirk association would present it to him at this bank wet. so at the appropriate moment mickey nguyen wheeled his father down to the front of the group in his wheelchair, and the captain read the citation and rick souder the lieutenant in champ of the lamps helicopter detachment on the kirk went over to the pilot, bao, and pinned the air medal on his jacket, and then bao struggled to get to his feet, and his son mickey helped him to his feet and bao stood at attention and saluted, and there wasn't a dry eye in the house at that point because we knew despite his illness, he was there that night. he was with us. he got to see his story told on the screen. so it's a very emotional story obviously for many reasons, and every day someone else shows up on the scene. we get a phone call from someone, we get another family who finds out -- who has found out they were aboard the "kirk" or they were involved in this. the captain and i were at a function in boston, street ma meese-american function. these two young vietnamese-american ladies probably in their late 30s or 40s came up to the table. they knew each other professionally but until that night they did not know that they were on the kirk at the same time. they found out that very night, and they came over to express their appreciation to captain jacobs, that he had saved them and their families. so that's what the story represents. it's a wonderful story. it's a vietnam story with a happy ending, and that's what makes it so significant. charles? >> -- some of the logistics of taking on -- over time, this enormous number of people. the ship at some point must be filled to capacity. do they have to be taken somewhere, disembarked -- >> i'll give you the brief aspect of it. the brief outline of it is the kirk goes down to an island. it's assigned this special mission. this is after all this helicopter ak pit. they get a call from the flagship, come alongside. captain jacobs figures, oh, my god, we're in trouble now. what did we do? why am i being called alongside the flagship? out of all these ships, why my ship? and they get nearby, and over the radio admiral whitmire says i'm putting a civilian aboard. you will take your orders from him. this is highly unusual. the only civilians naval officers will take orders from, secretary of the navy and secretary of defense, and the man they put aboard is richard armitage. that's another part of the story that's in the book. but they get to the island, which is an island off the coast of vietnam, south vietnam, and there waiting for them is the remnants of the south vietnamese navy, 32 ships. that they expected, that is what armitage told them they were going to find. what they didn't count on were more than 30,000 refugees clogging the decks. so many people on the decks one of the crew members said the only way i can describe it is if you take a hershey bar and put it on a hot sidewalk in the summer and come back an hour later and see the ants crawling all over it. that's what the ships looked like. captain ajobs is alone, he has this 440-some odd foot ship. he has two corpsman. that's his medical chaff,staff, chief and a third class. suddenly they are responsible for the health care of more than 30,000 vietnamese refugees. how are they going to do this? how are they going to feed them? how are they going to get them water and food? that's the story. the kirk gets them under way and within a day or so other ships come to the rescue. they don't bring them aboard their ships. they take a few here and there, but what they do is they lead this flotilla of vietnamese ships, 900, almost 1,000 miles across the south china sea. that's the real story. how did they pull it off? you want to know? read the book. yes, ma'am. >> you had mentioned people, crew members, had cameras to take pictures. did any of them have video cameras? >> one. >> to capture it on fill snm. >> they didn't have video cameras then but one of them had a super 8. do you remember from when you were a kid, every kid had one and you took pictures of naughty things like blowing up bridges and, you know, and throwing toilet paper over the neighbor's trees on halloween. no, wunt do that, dick. you wouldn't do anything like that. you're just a good guy. one of the crew members did this super 8. he just found that film about a year ago and that film was restored and rory kennedy, who is a filmmaker, the daughter of ethel and bobby kennedy, she's making a film about the last days of vietnam and a lot of kirk will be in that. it will be on american experience this coming year. and the crew member, dan lucero who lives in north carolina, they wanted that film in a desperate way. they flew him to california with his film and they restored it and they're going to use motion picture film of the kirk during the rescue. it's not a lot of film and it's a little flickering in places but it's the only combat footage that was taken aboard the kirk. the stuff you have seen in films and documentaries, there were nbc and cbs and abc photographers aboard the larger ships, the aircraft carriers. there wasn't anything like that, there was no photographic or journalistic support on the kirk. but these guys who had cameras, and there were three or four of them, and you will see in the book there are those photographs, they have the slides in their attic, and these guys were good. they were amateurs because they didn't get paid to take pictures, but they were there at the right time and without their fine work, we wouldn't have a documentary obviously. they were color and they were beautiful. they even had a picture of the c-130 the air force sent out over the south china sea to drop supplies. we have a beautiful sequence of footage of the c-130 flying over the kirk and dropping the 55-gallon drums out its tailgate from parachutes. we have all that and there are two shots in the book about that. so again my thanks to the crew of "kirk" for understanding how to document history. >> since you're -- you made historian emeritus what was the chief corpsman's major reaction? what was his biggest challenge and his biggest accomplishment in his mind? >> his biggest challenge was how do i take care of these people and what he did essentially, he held sick call. he went on the whale motor, the motor whale boat -- actually she had xhan commandeered a swift boat. he remembers at one time -- he had a 45, a 1911 automatic pistol. because he didn't know who was aboard these ships. there could be north vietnamese infiltrators. it had happened previously. there had been firefights on some of the ships earlier in this drama. so he had a .45. now, he didn't have any ammo in it, but nobody knew that, and he gets aboard one of these ships and he runs into two south vietnamese physicians. they're identified as two -- he said i'm going to go back to kirk and i'm going to get you everything you need. i'm going to bring you equipment, whatever you need. you tell at the what you need, and they said we're not doing anything. the war is over. we're just refugees. and he looked and he said, you're doctors. you have an obligation to help these people. no, the war is finished, it's over. he said i wanted to pull out that pistol and shoot them but i knew there was no ammo so it was pointless. he got -- they ran out of supplies quickly with 30,000. what could you store in the sick bay of a ship that size? and there is -- there was a procedure -- i shouldn't say they a350e8d ppealed or the ski the chief went to the skipper and he said i'm out of everything. i'm out of medical supplies and a lot of these people had eye disease. they had pink eye, conjunctivitis which is incredible spreadable. you get it by just touching your eye and touching anything. and he said if i get it, we're out of business. so he goes to the captain and says what do we do? the long circuitous way, went through the pentagon, and the air force at clark field provided the hospital at clark field in the philippines provided the two 55 gallon drums and the c-130 and they flew out and dropped the 55 gallon drums in the water and the kirk replenished long enough to get in. but there were other ships that came to the rescue. other ships were out there. i don't want to make it sound like this is a lone ranger operation. there were other ships and several provided corpsman and one provided a physician, and then when they got close to the philippines, president marco said to the americans, to the american diplomatic corps, these ships are not coming into my country, period. and so we have a humanitarian disaster in the making. but even that was overcome, and i'm not going to give that away or you'll never want to read the book. >> i can tell you one story about that chief corpsman. i was on the bridge at the time and the chief comes up to me, and he says, hey, captain, i got one other vietnamese officer who almost has the leg severed right above the knee. i have patched him up the best i could but we have to get him over to the surgeon or he's going to bleed to death. same time the air boss comes up, the main rotor of the hueys hit the other on the flight deck. so i have two damaged on the flight deck. i go back and i say, hey, guys, can you make one good one out of these two birds? when do you want it? i said now. 35 or 40 minutes now they hovered it over the flight deck. it was vibrating like hell but it flew. so i put the chief corpsman, the patient, two pilots, they flew him to the doctor, came back and landed on the ship. one of the doctors called me up and said you have a great doctor, hell of a job putting that guy's leg together. i said that's not a doctor, he's a corpsman. so it gives you an idea what he did. i think chief corpsman says it like this. we did our job. we were going home. we had a home to go. they didn't. end of story. >> thank you, captain. any other questions? yes, dick. >> -- the consulate or anything like that today? >> we have diplomatic relations, full diplomatic relations with vietnam. i think there is a consulate in d.c. in fact, there's an embassy in d.c., a full embassy. >> have you had any contact with them in terms of their research? >> no, i haven't. it's a very ticklish thing. remember, the communists won that one, and they're not particularly happy with the fact that what remained of the south vietnamese navy, which was spoils of war, escaped. they were not happy about it at all, and that's one of the reasons that marcos was so hesitant to allow those ships into the philippines. he was looking at the new reality. the new southeast asian reality was the united states had just abandoned an ally. we, the filipinos, are allies of the united states. are they going to abandon us? we can't take the chance. this is marcos' thinking. we have to make nice to the new reality, the north vietnamese. that was what governed his thinking at the time. so the current vietnamese -- let's say vietnam now, all of vietnam of course, this is not a proud chapter for them. i mean, when the kirk went out there by itself in the middle of the night back to the island, the captain was very concerned. we're sitting ducks. are we sacrificial lambs? remember, vietnam was now occupied. the airfields were in the hands of the north vietnamese and they had captured a lot of the airplanes we had given the south vietnamese. how is the kirk going to defend itself against a concerted attack by air? remember or you don't know this, some of you do, destroyer escorts were equipped for anti-submarine warfare. they were supposed to defend a carrier task force against soviet submarines. it was the cold war. so they had all the things you need to combat submarines but not a lot to combat against hostile aircraft. you know, one five-inch deck gun was not going to do a lot to hold off a concerted attack, and so we know now having gotten into the vietnamese archives, the vietnamese had no intention of attacking. they were just glad to see us leave. they didn't want any more pretext for us coming back into the war with the b-52s, and so they let us go. but at the same time we didn't know that. as they say hindsight is -- finish the sentence. other questions? well, again, thank you very much. i certainly enjoyed being here and sharing the experience. [ applause ] thank you. >> jan, on behalf of the admiral and all of us at the navy memorial we want to thank you so much for all of your diligent work to bring us this story about the best and brightest that our navy has to offer and really a fantastic moving story and we want to say thank you. >> thank you very much. appreciate it. with the senate in its august break, we'll feature book tv programming weeknights in prime time on c-span2 starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern. for the weekends here are a few special programs. saturday we're live from jackson, mississippi, for the inaugural mississippi book festival at 11:30 a.m. eastern with discussions on harper lee, civil rights, and the civil war. on saturday september 5th, we're live from our nation's capital for the 15th annual national book festival followed on sunday with our live in depth program with former second lady and senior fellow lynne cheney. book tv on c-span2, television or serious readers. hurricane katrina was ten years ago. to mark the anniversary, we'll cover a day-long symposium in new orleans to evaluate the city's recovery. with conversations on disaster preparedness, housing, education, the environment, race, and neighborhood development. hosted by the atlantic magazine, live monday at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. each week american history tv's "reel america" brings you archival films that help tell the story of the 20th century. on march 8th, 1965, 3500 marines were deployed to vietnam marking the beginning of the u.s. ground war. by the end of 1965, almost

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