united nations and nato. it was a war that was fundamentally about liberty, but it spawned independence movements and colonial wars that led to the creation of modern india, pakistan, ghana israel, and other states in a fermentation that continues to this day. we americans emerged from world war ii with extraordinary advantages that ensure prosperity for decades and a thriving industrial base, a population relatively unscarred by war, cheap energy, two thirds of the world's gold supply, great optimism. as the major power in western europe mediterranean, and the pacific assisting atomic weapons and an army and navy and air force of unequal might -- possessing atomic weapons and the army and navy and air force of unequal might. it was described as the end of european supremacy. the war largely dispelled american isolationism even as it encouraged american exceptionalism as well as a penchant for military solutions and a self regard that led to some to label the epic "the american century." remember what john adams told us? power always thinks it has a great soul. the war was a potent catalyst for social change across the republic. new technologies -- jets computers, ballistic missiles, the mass production of houses -- spurred vibrant industries that in turn encourage the migration of black workers from south to north and of all people to the emerging west. the g.i. bill put millions of soldiers into college classrooms, spurring unprecedented social mobility. world war ii is perhaps the greatest agent of social change in this country during the 20th century. our national evolution on four issues of racial and gender equality are very much shaped by the war. the u.s. military was segregated during world war ii, true enough, and exclusionary. a long story by the u.s. army war college on the role of black americans in combat during world war i, a study that was written in the 1920's and sent to the army chief of staff, concluded that "the negro is by nature subservient and believes himself to be the interior of the white man. cannot control himself in the face of danger to the extent that the white man can. he has not the initiative and resources of the white man. the negro is a rank coward in the dark. as a fighter he has been inferior even when led by white officers. the negro officer is a failure as a combat officer in world war i." close quote. when world war i began there were fewer than 3000 blacks in the army. by early 1944 the number had increased to three quarters of a million and the disparity between the avowed principles for which the nation fought and the start but critical reality of american life -- start critical reality of american life the legitimacy -- to the civil -- -- stark, critical reality of american life gave legitimacy to the civil rights movement. many african-americans endorsed what they called the double v. restrictions gradually eased. a group of fighter pilots known as the tuskegee airmen demonstrated the inanity of the restrictions including vat black pilots lacked the reflexes to be good fighter pilots. -- that black eyelets lacked the reflexes to be good fighter pilots -- black pilots lacked the reflexes to be good fighter pilots. they helped demonstrate the moral bankruptcy and international depravity of attitudes like those events in the war college study. through the army is about 20% black. there are more than 80 african-american general officers in the military today. it is also true that the army in world war ii was an overwhelmingly male institution exclusively male in senior leadership roles. there were about 1300 generals in the u.s. army in 1944 and not one of them was a woman. the first female army officer was not promoted to general until 1970. but the extraordinary demand for military manpower meant that women were drawn into the national workplace in exceptional numbers, some 90 million working outside of the home. it is very hard to put that genie back in the bottle. incidentally, in today's military, 16% of officers and 7% of general officers are women. world war ii was among the greatest stories of the 20th century and it ought to be taught and learned as a story with character and plot, conflict. when we contemplate what is lost control and that world war ii generation slowly slips into the shadows -- as that world war ii generation slowly slips into the shadows, we contemplate what is lost is perhaps the ability to bear witness, to tell the story firsthand, to adjust with authenticity -- a test with authenticity -- attest with authenticity why they fought and died. 13 million americans have left us of the 60 million in uniform and countless others -- 16 million in uniform and countless others will go untold. nobody cares witness like those that were there -- bears witness like those that were there. soldiers in the texas national guard confessed that they were scared for 23 miles. i saw the best troops cut down and replaced two or three times. no one can convey the vivid immediacy of combat like the eyewitness, like the crew men describing antiaircraft fire barrage over romania. "it came like a mighty shout. in validation rolling up at -- a malediction rolling up at us. they were everywhere." as the primary storytellers die off, it is important for their survivors, for us, to sustain the story, did you it a vivid narrative that lives and breathes rather than something desiccated, rapidly receding into the past with ever diminishing power to stir us. what it cost besides $296 billion, 13 u.s. divisions in europe suffered at least 100% casualties. five more suffered at least 200% casualties. from all theaters of american service casualties included 1700 left lines, 11,000 with that -- left blind 11,000 with at least partial paralysis and 18,000 para amputations. aggregate numbers show how inhuman the war was, teasing out the deaths one at a time affirms humanity. as we look at the big euros on the map and tell the biggest self -- arrows and contemplate the biggest self-inflicted in history, each death was as unique as a fingerprint or snowflake. patricia o'malley was a year old when her father, major richard james o'malley battalion commander in the fall infantry regiment, was killed by a sniper in normandy. after seeing his headstone for the first time on the beach patricia o'malley wrote "i cried for the joy of being there and the sadness of my father's death. i cried for all of the times i needed a father and never had one. i cried for all of the words i wanted to say and wanted to hear but have not. i cried and cried ." the australian war correspondent later wrote "the living have because of the dad in trust. we, -- the dead in frost. we have bthe cause of the dead in trust." 295,000 killed in action. in 1947, the next of kin of american troops buried overseas, and that was nearly all who had died in europe and the pacific and the mediterranean and whose bodies had been recovered those mexico filled out a quartermaster form. it was a one time offer as to whether to have sons -- and they were mostly sons, brought home for permanent reburial or buried overseas in one of a dozen american battle monuments in cer cemeteries. almost 40% left boys overseas and 60% brought them home. regardless of where they were buried it cost $564 to reopen each grave, something only a rich and victorious country could afford. every grave was opened by hand. the remains of every soldier dusted with embalming compound of formaldehyde and aluminum chloride and clay and plaster of paris. they were placed in a metal casket. labor strikes in the united states had caused a shortage of casket steel and repatriation was further delayed by a birth of licensed and -- dearth of licensed embalmers. the debt accumulated in warehouses. finally, -- dead accumulated in warehouse. finally a ghost shared from -- ship sailed from antwerp. the connelly breterthed in new york and the y winced the caskets and the great gift for a began as the dead -- dias for a -- diasspora began. among those waiting was henry wright a widow were in missouri. -- widower in missouri. one by one his sons arrived. private harold be right who died in a german prison camp on february 3. and finally privatenee nelson wight. -- wright. the caskets were carried into the bedrooms where the boys had been born. neighbors kept vigil and in the morning to the brothers to the hilltop cemeteries for burial. . that is how the dead came home. but what of their belongings, what of the things that they cherished? long before the dead came home, but things had been coming back. at a large warehouse in kansas city, the u.s. army affects bureau began as a quartermaster enterprise with a half-dozen employees in february of 1942. but expanded to more than 1000 workers and by august of 1945 they were handling 80,000 shipments a month with the effects of american soldiers. hour after hour and day after day shipping containers were unloaded onto receiving docs and hoisted -- docks and hoisted by elevator. they traveled by assembly line conveyor belt from station to station down to the seventh floor as they progress through the crates to extract -- pawed through the crates to extract ammunition pornography letters. dentists removed corrosion and blood from helmets and long versus -- laundresses remove bloodstains. banks of favorites were hammering out letters and the just was this -- gist was this. "dear sir or madam, we have your caps on's stuff. -- dead son's stuff. do you want it back?" over the years they found amazing things tapestries, enemy swords, germany machine guns, walrus tusks, a shrunken head, a tobacco s full of diamonds -- acsack full of diamonds. in the diaries was a small note from a sergeant from aurora illinois, shot in the right leg or hip. the had dragged himself into a grass shanty and over the several days he had taken to die he had scribbled a final letter home to his family. it began "my dear, sweet father, mother, and his sister. i lay in those terrible place wondering about why god has forsaken me but why he is making me suffer. "the recent -- suffer." our recent poet laureate ends a home with these lines -- poem with these lines. "the ghost of history rolls over, pins me beneath a heavy arm. " it is vital that we feel the heavy arm. thank you so much for having me with you this morning. thank you. [applause] tom birmingham: thank you for that stronger contextualization and personalization of world war ii. thank you very much. rick and david have agreed to take a few minutes of questions. so we will entertain those questions. if you would not mind coming up to the table here? ok, behind you. >> first of all, i would like to thank both presenters for upholding the standards of their profession as historians by not using powerpoint. thank you very much. [laughter] >> my question is for professor kennedy. you mentioned the unofficial areas of the war, the prime beneficiary -- beneficiaries of the war, the prime beneficiary being the united states. but there is a downside and i can think of at least two issues. one of them being what president eisenhower referred to as the military-industrial complex. the other is lesser-known but as important to pioneer and that is what started in january of 1945, educational reform known as life adjustment education. and this was very -- it was the beginning and it affects me to this day. i am wondering if you can put into better perspective of the downsides from world war ii we are suffering through today? david kennedy: let me start by saying that i am unfamiliar with the second item. i am going to have to take a pass on that one unless you would care to elucidate and give us a stronger cue. life adjustment? >> let me give it to you very quickly. place adjustment was based on the idea that only 20% of the school kids were going to college and another 20% going to trade school and the other 60% having to go through life adjustment which means being adjusted to not having ambitions in life that you might want to have. and one of the primary damages that was done to this was done to women because they were all out -- hauled out of the defense buildings and factories and sent into the kitchen and that spun off the 1950's. of suburban -- 1950's. related of suburban life -- period of suburban life. david kennedy: thank you for that, i still have no more acquaintance than what you said but let's go to the other side of the educational ledger, something that rick atkinson mentioned, the g.i. bill. about 8 million men to advantage of that and not all of them went to college, a lot of them went to vocational institutions and learned a trade. there is a very famous study of the source of the economic growth in the united states between 1945 and 1970 with began a landmark study for students of -- which became a landmark study for students of the economic growth. the single greatest that he identified was the upgrading of the collective skill level of the american workforce and he attributed good piece of that to the g.i. bill. this is a direct, wartime legacy that very immediately informed the performance of the economy after the war. let me return to something that rick said" a deeper point on it maybe -- and for a deeper point on it, maybe. -- and put a deeper point on it, maybe. there is a passage in the early pages where he is trying to make the reader understand the mood of postwar america and he describes it as the moment of collective inebriation in american history. [laughter] david kennedy: that is not far off of the mark. the postwar era was a time of giddy self congratulations. having fought the good war in, we thought an upright when. the society reaped the benefits for a generation not just in the g.i. bill but also it is no accident that the civil rights movement achieves the successes that it did in the postwar. late -- postwar period. we finally take care of a big piece of the agenda which has been delayed for a century since the emancipation of the civil war. >> this is for both panelists. i have never seen a good answer to the question. did the allied bombing campaign in europe yield more than it costs? rick atkinson: didn't yield more that cost, did you say -- did it yield more than it costs, did you send? you can put a dollar figure on it. the hazard of being a crew man in a b-17 or av for was extraordinarily high -- b-4 was extraordinarily high. there was no job more dangerous than being a crew man on the heavy bomber missions. but the consequence was to hammer the third right and it's -- reich and its dependencies that made it very difficult for them to wage the expansionary war they hoped to be waging. my feeling is that if you understand what the aspirations were in having an air campaign over the force the germans had in normandy which began to erode any vista rate the german war machine -- and eviscerate the german war machine and you see what the consequences were by 1945 you cannot really have any doubt that the campaign was effective. now, we smashed 60 german cities to smithereens. almost 7 million dead germans. end of the civilians that were killed, a member of those, hundreds of thousands, were killed in the bombing campaign -- and of the civilians a number of those, hundreds of thousands, were killed in the bombing campaign. my estimation is that it was worth it. david kennedy: i agree with that answer. let me just add that the question that you asked was on the minds of people at the time and the advocates of strategic airpower caused something to be formed called the strategic bombing survey which was a scientific and systematic attempt to answer the question. after months if not years of study my psychologist and economists -- by psychologists and economists, trying to answer the question of, what was the effect the good that come up with a conclusive answer. it remained and elusive thing. one of the pieces of data that came out is relevant today. i am doing this from memory so i might not get the numbers precisely right. it turned out that on average in the air campaign in europe, to be certain of the destruction of one target of something -- took something on the order of 170 airplanes dropping 648 tons of bombs because the bombing techniques were so inaccurate and we could not deliver the ordinance with precision. it was kind of a crude method of warfare which is part of the reason why civilian casualties were as high despite things like the bomb site. we could not deliver with the precision that smart bomb technology allows us to. -- to do. >> thank you. what do you think about the united states bringing former nazis like intelligence officers who in many cases had been shot, bringing them into the country and allowing them safety and to run important programs? some were anti-communists some had technology but they were no nazis -- known matches. rick atkinson: warner on brown for example was brought here because we recognized that the germans were working on a missile program that would be useful after the war. von braun wrote a memoir called "i am for the stars was called and the comedian more salt said the subtitle -- mort s al said the subtitle should have been "but sometimes i hit london." [laughter] rick atkinson: the expediency of postwar thinking in bringing warner -- warner von brown and people with expertise and so on led to a kind of early weapons race, the russians gathering up whatever they could find in their portions of occupied germany and the united states aggressively pulling out all of the manpower and brainpower that we could find to bring back to the united states in order to not only debrief them on how far they had gone in respective programs during the war but also potentially to contribute to our efforts postwar. what do i think about it? i think von braun and others who have been prosecuted personally, but i recognize that in the spirit of the times there was no appetite for that. and in general i am happy that we got them in the russians did not. i think that -- and the russians did not. i think if you would knowledge the realities of both sides the soviets and the americans competing in one way or another for the kind of competition we will see through the 1950's and beyond, then that program -- it was a very elaborate and specifically designed and well thought out program of scooping up people and material and bringing it back, makes perfect sense. david kennedy: it is absolutely right that the werner von braun has roots in world war ii but it also stitches into a subsequent chapter called the cold war. i would say the cold war is the proper context to understand eisenhower's warning about the military-industrial complex. world war ii demonstrates the war winning advantage that a mobilized economy has in that warfare. let's not forget the country demobilized in a hurry after world war ii and when it was proposed in a famous document that we go back onto a partially fully mobilized military footing in the context of the cold war that was thought to be politically impossible until the korean war broke out and it was in that context that eisenhower delivers the warning. history goes on and not every single thing that happens after 1945 can be attributed to the war itself. cold war is the context of warner von brown. tom birmingham: i think we have time for one more. >> stalin and roosevelt and churchill were an uneasy alliance during the war. among the three, who was the best negotiator and who achieved most of his diplomatic objectives by the end of the war? rick atkinson: the world all three pretty titanic personalities. -- they were all three pretty titanic personalities. the record strongly underlies the conclusion that it was roosevelt that achieved more of his objectives and morsi early than any -- more securely than any of the other victory. chyurchhill won the war but the british empire has never been the same sense. -- since. stalin achieved a lot of things in eastern and central europe and consolidated his hold but fell short of the grandest ambitions in the leninist-stalinist tradition. roosevelt kept his country secure, secured western europe, began the process of the decolonization of asia and africa within less than a generation. all of these long-standing u.s. foreign-policy objectives even before franklin roosevelt. he would be my nominee. rick atkinson: it depends on part on whether you are looking at the ambitions of the three through the whole war. whether you are looking at yalta and popped them stop -- pottsdam. if you anticipate that roosevelt in december 1941 is looking to minimize american costs in blood particularly and hoping that he can get the russians to do most of the dying for us, then he is hugely successful. he isminimize hoping he can get the russians to do the killing for us and that is economically successful. -- titanic least successful. there are more american soldiers that died in stalingrad than american marines in the whole war. the russians killed more germans by a factor of nine then american and british soldiers together killed. if you are roosevelt and are hoping that that is the outcome of this alliance with the devil and stalin certainly is a devil then that is a enormously successful chip. if you are stalin looking at the postwar era in yalta and trying to secure your borders for their east -- farther west -- farther east, farther west than they had been if you're looking at the things that stalin secured at yalta, you would believe he came out of the war with what he was hoping for and churchill was hoping to survive. the is hoping not only for the british empire to survive -- and he will be disappointed -- but he is hoping for the spirit of western democracy to survive. he is also hoping for a tory government to survive and he will be disappointed. david kennedy: you were me of something best all and said it more than once in the run-up to the tehran -- stalin said it in the run-up to the tehran conference. it is his description of the core of american grand strategy. "it appears the americans have decided to fight the war with american money and american machines and russian men." a cynical way to put it all but inaccurate description of what the situation was -- an accurate description of what the situation was. tom birmingham: thank you david, and red. [applause] -- and rick. [applause] tom birmingham: for those thoughts and the presentation. we now are going to move on to the panel discussion. the moderator of the panel is ken randel. he is the founder and director of the museum of world war ii boston. this is one of the best-kept secrets in the boston cultural landscape, a condition i hope will be over. i got to visit and what a treat it was. the museum has the most comprehensive collection of world war ii materials containing 10,000 artifacts 3500 posters, and 7500 reference points. he began his collection in 1955 and for several decades was the only one pursuing artifacts. he is an internationally recognized dealer and his clients include the library of congress the national archives bill gates, queen elizabeth, rn hammer, the kennedy family -- arm and hammer, the kennedy family, and several presidents. not a shabby collection. he has been cited in magazines and newspapers worldwide and was awarded the u.s. justice department's distinguished service award. mr. rendell as authored several books including his most recent volume politics, war, and personality." -- "politics, war, and personality." ken? [applause] ken rendell: i would like to ask analysts to come up. israel arbeiter, a holocaust survivor. kerry dunne, director of history at the public school system. paul reid, a successful author of "the last lion." and susan wilkins, who teaches history and science, social sciences in the newton public school system. the mission of the museum of world war ii is to utilize our unique collection as an access point to engage students in thinking about the central questions and themes of the period. and to help them to understand the relevancy of their own lives. the museum is not just a memorial. it is not static. we want students and visitors to experience the exhibits, not just to look at them. the subtitle of the museum is the costs and consequences of war. war is personal, war is complex. and despite the hopes of good people, war is always with us. the museum is the only one in the world that treats world war ii as a global event something i find quite amazing. every country is represented in the museum by comprehensive collections of artifacts and documents representing the human story and the social, political and military context. one of our founding trustees who wrote the mission statement wrote that the museum exhibits and mosaic of life in every area -- a mosaic of life in every area. there are 7000 artifacts on display and 50,000 pieces in the archives. the imperial war museum in london describes it as the most comprehensive display original world war ii artifacts anywhere. the bredth and intimacy of the collection is the home front drama and despair lends itself to an interdisciplinary approach. on any level, the educational experience to meet students where they are and encourage them to view the human experience of broader than any one individual or one time in history. the original objects in the collections can be touched and handled in students and educators are to feel the immediacy -- urged to feel the immediacy. there are many themes to which students can relate. conformity in nazi germany and the pressure to fit in the crowd. the difficulty of recognizing evil when it is marketed with nationalistic benefit. the complexity of human nature and loneliness of leadership. the strength of comradeship and friendship. the power of propaganda developed during the rise of nazi is him. the power of nationalism -- nazism. the power of nationalism. i have always believed that students can learn one of the most important lessons in life by realizing how leaders focused on what they could do and not what they could not do. george patton had a very severe learning problem, probably dyslexia, in an age where nobody recognized dyslexia. winston church hill severe problems with depression. eisenhower came from a better or immigrant family -- dirt poor immigrant family in kansas. roosevelt ran the war from a wheelchair. these are not lost on the students at the museum, each of whom is required to fill out a questionnaire before they leave. one of them wrote "my time at the museum really humbled my own struggles in my own life." the museum has given grants to the river institute to create programs that can be sent to teachers in advance. and then they can use the different varieties of the program in the museum and afterwards. one of the programs, the initial one, was called america enters the war. they included the rounding up of japanese-americans in all of the complex aspects of the subject and the rise of nazism which is a complex subject and we present in a way where students and visitors can focus on different aspects of the rise and success of nazism. marshall carter who is currently the president of the academy and is leaving to be our director of education, marshall is here someplace. our other major development in terms of education is that in september 1 of the most brilliant minds in museum education will be leaving a european museum to become our director. we look forward to a book that she wrote on the subject. she concluded "history is about who we, humanity, were then and who we are now. without knowing something about the former, our understanding of the present, of what we might be capable of individually or as a society, is so much weaker. in learning history, we are not learning how to predict the future. neither are we learning lessons from it that can be directly applied to the choices and dilemmas that confront us today. in encountering real people, as veterans are eyewitnesses to events, we are encouraging young people to understand history as the accumulation of the conduct, choices, and of the luck of many people. we are arming ourselves with a greater depth of understanding about how individual people, communities, and states behave in times of enormous stress and diversity. and -- adversity. and in contemplating how we would react we are equipping ourselves with greater emotional intelligence and resilience to stand up to difficult times. these seem good reasons to teach the lessons and to treat history and the people whose testimony forms some part of that history with respect. that articulation of her observations over a 20 year. late -- year period are what the mission is all about. i am going to turn to the panel each of whom is going to give their ideas on what they are doing. and then we will get on to general questions. i think we will start alphabetically with israel arbeiter. israel arbeiter: thank you very much ken. i want to thank very much the pioneer institute for inviting me here. is a great honor for me to stay here and spend the morning and speak with you about the point of the day and about my individual life study as a holocaust survivor. my name is israel arbeiter. 70 years ago i was a prisoner in auschwitz. four months ago, i was invited by the president of the united states to serve on the presidential delegation for the 70th anniversary of the cap liberation -- camp liberation. i went and stood in front of the same date -- that i entered as a -- gate that i entered as a teenager. i was born in a city with a thriving jewish community. my father was a tailor. my mother was a housewife cared for my brothers and me. when hitler came to power, my family did not believe the german power would follow -- german people would follow him. in 1939, germany occupied poland and forced all of the jews to wear yellow stars. the evicted all of the jews out of their homes, sent us to forced labor camps. at the age of 14, i became a slave laborer, condemned to death for the only crime i had committed because i was born jewish. we were mistreated and beaten regularly. when i contacted people, i was sent to an infirmary. on my second night there were 87 people in that infirmary that were sick. on the second night all 87 patients were to be taken outside to be shot because if you were sick, if you were unable to work, you had no right to live. you were executed. there were 87 like i mentioned 87 people in that infirmary. out of the 87, that night, 86 were shot by the camp commandant , the chief of the gestapo. only one escaped, j not alive. i will give you a little quiz. [laughter] israel arbeiter: who do that one person was that escaped? yes, it was me. i escaped by jumping out of a window. in october, all of the jews were gathered for selection. two of my brothers and i were directed to one line. my parents and my younger brother to another. i had never been separated from my parents. but my father understood what was happening and suddenly went to the other line. the last thing he said to me was go back over there and you will survive and remember to carry on with jewish life and jewish tradition. my father and my brother and my mother and my seven-year-old brother joseph were sent to the death camp at troubling to where they were -- terblinka where they were gassed and incinerated on the same day. that was and still is the darkest day of my life because i have never seen my parents since then. from the moment that we were separated i knew that if i was i would do all in my power to fulfill my father's wishes. i spent the next two and a half years before being shipped to all twits -- auschwitz. we were subject to killing and forced marches, beaten and terrorized integrated in every way possible. yet some of us managed to survive. by april of 1945 i knew that the work had run out. we were on a death march which would end in salt mines where we would be executed. , instead on my 20th birthday -- instead, on my 20th birthday, the guards fled and the french army appeared. after five and a half years i was finally free. you cannot really understand what it means to be free until your freedom is taken away from you. it is oxygen to the human soul. so we all must learn to love our freedom, pay for it and protect it. this is live for 70 years i have devoted my life to teaching about the holocaust. i have spoken to schoolchildren and before congressional committees. even to audiences in germany and poland. to ensure that people understand . here in boston we have created a beautiful holocaust memorial. we have a contest and establish the museum including a small one that uses my name and it is now located in waltham. i am proud of what we have been able to achieve. yet i need to tell you that i am also worried. in our world there are people and movements that care nothing for human life and have no respect for freedom. even 10 years ago i did not imagine the things that are happening today would be possible. so i put my hope in the beautiful young people who listen and want to learn about our experience so that they can protect our future. i am now 90 years old. i think about my life. i feel that i have done my best to keep my promise to my father. i also did my best to pass onto my children and grandchildren a hatred for intolerance. in this i did not succeed but i hope and pray that for the world of peace for everybody. and so i say to each of you here today, that this is your moment. it is up to you now to continue to struggle for freedom. it is up to you to secure our children and grandchildren's future. it is up to you to meet the moment. we also must remember those who restored our lives, the liberators the americans british and french and other young men joined armies and went to war. defeated the nazis and liberated us from certain death. it is only sad that they did not come in little sooner. the horrible suffering of that we survived in the concentration camps cannot be forgotten. the memory of the holocaust should be on human conscience for all time, the suffering and death. we pray and hope that peace and understanding will continue to grow out of the terrible destruction that we witnessed during the holocaust. we pray and hope for a world blessed with peace understanding, and goodwill for all mankind. thank you. [applause] israel arbeiter: thank you. ken rendell: thank you. it cannot get any better than that. [laughter] israel arbeiter: no wonder i got such a nice ovation. i was reading ken's. [laughter] ken rendell: neither one of us can read without glasses. so we need the same typeface. i thought that looked like mine. our next speaker is carried on, director of history -- kerry dunne director of the social studies for boston schools. [applause] kerry dunne: thank you ken and izzy. what a memorable and touching few moments to share together. i will keep my remarks brief. i was delighted and flattered to be invited to be a part of the panel today for several reasons. one hit close to home. my grandfather passed away several years ago. his name was drawn. he was a forensic chemist. it was an emerging field when he entered the practice and he rammed the crime lab. he was one of the founders. -- ran the crime lab. it was one of the founders. -- he was one of the founders. he served in the pacific front during the battle of okinawa and was called back into the reserve during the berlin airlift. i was fortunate to have my grandfather in my life and even more fortunate that i was a student of history and do enough to conduct oral histories -- knew enough to conduct oral histories of his memories. i use them with my own students and they are some of my fondest moments as a teacher. they range from the amusing. right after world he -- pearl harbor he walked out of classes at tufts to volunteer. he was a skinny guy so he had to eat four pounds of store bought bananas, weighed in again and enlisted. he remembers being so hot. it was literally impossible to sleep in the pacific. he and his fellow sailors and what speak on the deck -- would sleep on the deck and tie ropes to their ankles, they had a fear of being thrown overboard. inn okinawa, he was part of a group of american troops that encountered comfort women from china and karen held by japanese troops. later on, he sought to preserve that history. another troubling chapter of this war. it was mentioned by professor kennedy and mr. atkinson that it might only be one million left of our servicemen. it is essential that we get the stories of people like my grandfather while they are still with us. many more who were children during that time or women on the home front or lived abroad. there is still time and it is essential for us to preserve that history. i would like to end with a note in response to tom's remarks. he brought up the fight for u.s. history. that 's very relevant. we are in a bigger fight to preserve the study of history and social studies in our schools. we live in an era where unfortunately appreciation for history, the values of americans being informed and active citizenry, for academics are under threat in our country from many angles. the federal department of education, with the end of the teaching american history grant has all but defunded the teaching of years history. our own state has a law mandating the teaching of civics that is not enforced, not even monitor. this is a tough time. we need all of us to put history and social studies on the front burner. to preserve the stories of our past and build a brighter future for our students. thank you. [applause] >> paul reed is the author of the well acclaimed biography of winston churchill. paul reid: it is an honor to be asked up here. i'm a native best tony and have not been back in town much over the last 20 years. it is great to be home. i was appalled to hear about the change in massachusetts school curriculum, civics is no longer required or no longer tested or both. i'm not a teacher. i would not be here today if not for the teachers i had back in winchester, massachusetts. my sixth grade teacher was captain george foreman, fought in world war ii. my dentist, larry quigley, was captain larry quigley, a marine. my old man sam reid, went to the naval academy. my uncle enlisted in the marines at 17 and was 18 when he was fighting on iwo jima. these are the people i grew up with and heard stories. history came to me as a tiny kid. and i loved history. that love was nurtured in my home by my parents by my teachers. in fact, i mentioned a few of them in the author's note to "the last lion" and thanked them. a couple hel[edped proofread the book. it's already been said, but i will say it again. we have to go -- we have to inculcate in students a love for history. back in the classrooms i was in, there were discussions, we were challenged, we had books to read beyond textbooks. i'm sure "the diary of anne frank" is still assigned across the country. i would love to see books like tim o'brien's "the things we carried" assigned "sophie's choice," professor eugene sledge was a u.s. marine, his memoir cannot be topped. on the english side of the classroom, you've got to have teachers getting children to love to read in the history classrooms you have to put them to work reading. i could not have imagined growing up, my pile of books next to my bed at the youngest age was biographies of churchill and hitler and history. there is a historian on the west coast, he was a young man when he met churchill. he asked what should i carry with me? churchill said, study history study history study history. that was coming from a man who made his living writing history. again, it is sad the state of education history in massachusetts is what it is now. pretty much nationwide. i think about 15 years ago on washington's birthday i did a feature story. i read about a new jersey businessman who was willing to have framed the -- who was said to have framed the portraits of george washington i had seen in school. he offered these two public schools in new jersey, free, because they had been moved over the decades. he had about four takers out of all the schools in new jersey. i remember doing the story and calling my friend william manchester, who's a historian he was appalled. his concern was for the next generation, how can they be good citizens? how can they be informed? if historian you do not know your history, you are going to complete it -- you're going to repeat it, it's so true. i'm so proud abnnd thankful that you invited me here and i can join the company and here rick atkinson: and one professor kennedy. the job is going to be done by us in ouri'm so proud abn homes with our kids and grandchildren and in the schools. and the results will obtain, or they won't -- and if they want, i am glad i will not be here 30 or 40 years from now. thank you very much. [applause] ken rendell: i have to add one books to what apologists said. -- what paul just said. his co-author wrote "goodbye darkness." if you are willing to -- if you are looking to understand world war ii service. he was a very educated guy who joined the marines. he wrote a memoir about trying to get away from the nightmares as to what happened. our next speaker is in the newton school systems, susan wilkins. [applause] susan wilkins: thank you. it is how my students greatly everyday. -- greet me every day. [laughter] thank you so much to the pioneer institute. my students would say thank you for pulling me away from school. i teach at newton north. i'm here to lend perspective as to the challenges classroom teachers face in dealing with an important topic. in new income a students learn about world war ii in sophomore and junior year history classes p at sophomore focuses on the european context, junior year is u.s. history and greater attention is given to the civic theater and homefront changes. in dealing with complex historical topics like world war ii i think the challenges for classroom history teachers are twofold. first, we face the perennial issue of threat versus depth. we teach survey courses. i think it is very important that we teach survey courses. for the vast majority of american high school students their junior year history course will be the last history course they take -- ever. it is important that we cover the scope of u.s. history in its entirety. that, of course, means we have to limit how much time we can devote to any topic. we need to construct an accurate and clear narrative for students and then pick a few historical moments to explore in greater depth. i suspect that is where we might have some discussion as to what those moments should be. but secondly, in addition to teaching the history itself, we also want to teach students to think like historians. and to do the work of historians. this involved having students work with primary and secondary sources, to engage an analytical research and writing, as well as understand that history is often complex and nuanced -- more gray than black and white. and that debate exists and that not all interpretations are equally valid. with that said and in response to mr. birmingham's early statistics about the state of history in the commonwealth, i think in newton we do a very good job. both of conveying the narrative and of challenging students to grapple with the more complex issues and debates surrounding this topic. thank you. [applause] ken rendell: thank you. we are going to get on to some questions and general discussion among the panel. susan just covered some of them from her perspective at new north. the first question, the subject of world war ii is as complex as the war itself. what are the lessons and knowledge you believe students should learn from this era? kerry dunne: there are two takeaways i would want. we went students to form their own opinions and their own judgments. i would certainly hope that the dangers of isolationism would be apparent to a student of world war ii. i would hope that teachers would be mindful of that and model that by making sure their own students are informed about the conflicts occurring around the world today and the threats occurring around our complicated world today. there are excellent resources out there. "the new york times upfront" is a terrific newsmagazine for students. creating the parallel between why it was important for the united states and its leaders of the pre-world war ii and world war ii era to be informed and active members of a world society and why you as a student need to be an active and informed member of our country's society and our broader world society is an important lesson. i also think -- and this is something that our partner in the austin public schools facing history and ourselves has been effective in delivering this message. understanding that the persecution of minority groups often creates a political climate that leads to totalitarianism, fascism, not the is on -- znazism. we have deep threats around the persecution of minority groups in europe, the middle east and elsewhere. i am wearing my forget-me-not badge in remembrance of the hundredth anniversary of the armenian genocide. this is a recurring theme in world history. it is one that our students need to be mindful of today. " be enduring lessons i would like to see our students take from a study of world war ii. it is one that our teachers of history can help in-- impart. ken rendell: please just jump in. susan wilkins: first of all, and the 10th grade course, the narrative in my classes, what explains the rise of hitler -- this is a very complex issue. students do not have much knowledge about this at all. i want students to understand this happened in part because of internal problems within the weimer republic and the experiment democracy in germany and what hitler and the nazi party did to attract voters to their party. 10th grade is also where we teach the holocaust. here i want students to understand both the history of anti-semitism and how it changed under the nazi regime. there's a wonderful five-minute youtube clip by a rabbi who talks about the evolution of anti-semitism and the innovation of racial anti-semitism under the nazi regime. i also find that 10th grade students have trouble understanding why the jews did not get out. why didn't they leave and go somewhere safer? this is something i grappled with trying to educate them about. and we sort of look at a timeline of nazi anti-semitic acts. i turn it back on them, when do you think it, too much has happened and you feel you would need to get out? where do you think you would go? finally, we look at the escalation, beginning in 1939. sort of the industrial-technological nature of the nazi extermination plan. i would say in the 11th grade u.s. history class again the focus is a little different. here i want my students to understand the war lays to rest the ongoing debate in u.s. history between isolationism and interventionism. that began with washington's farewell address. world war ii really ends that debate. this is the year we give attention to pearl harbor, the u.s. role in the european theater, the u.s. and the pacific is looked at him quite a bit of detail. culminating with the decision to drop the atomic bomb. ken rendell: thank you. it is very -- i'm going to jump in. you are teaching anti-semitism from the beginning here in the museum we begin with hitler's first anti-somatic-- anti semitic rant on the treaty of versailles we have to drive the jews out of germany. it begins in print on small ways. on notices of meetings at the beer halls, no jews allowed. next year, the nazi party program comes out and it is just two lines, the jews cannot be citizens of germany. then we have signs jews. cannot sit on park benches. it keeps escalating. jews i not allowed in this town you have a 20 year period where people adjusted to anti-semitism. the next year when it is more restrictive, you are accepting it up to that point. in 1939, hitler gives the annihilation of the jews speech. we have the manuscript of that. 1919-1939 is the rise of anti-semitism. we begin the holocaust with the annihilation speech. then we get into concentration camps. we parallel with what you are doing. izzy? israel arbeiter: are we going to have lunch? ken rendell: izzy speaks at our museum frequently. we can invite all of you to a talk. he's one of the great speakers we have at our museum. israel arbeiter: thank you. i used to speak in schools, that was my favorite place. i got a lot of invitations for speaking engagements in synagogues and churches and military installations. but i always picked the schools. the young people, especially the junior and in the high schools junior and senior class -- they are going to be the future leaders of the world. and through them, we've got to instill and teach and explain to them what happened during world war ii. i myself was a youngster, i was 14 years old when world war ii broke out. i spent most of the time in concentration camps. including auschwitz if i were to go on that subject talking about auschwitz, we would have to have lunch and dinner here. the main subject that i try to speak to students in schools is what happened to a peaceful country, to a country of intelligent people in the heart of europe in the 20th century -- not in africa, in the jungles of asia, but in the heart of europe. a small of group of nazi criminals could convince a nation of probably 80 million people to become murderers, to become torturers to commit such crimes that it is unbelievable. let me say this. if anybody walks out from here and says i do not believe what izzy was saying because it is impossible to believe that we -- what we went through under the nazis. ken rendell: what you speak for a minute? izzy speaks in german schools. i'm very interested in what reaction you get in speaking to a school in germany. it seems to me that germany really has confronted its past. japan -- we have a problem in this country with not teaching history. japan teaches a very different version of history. germany seems to be doing a very thorough job. i know that you have a lot of experience speaking in these schools. israel arbeiter: i've been invited the last seven years to come to speak and germany's schools. the audience, the high school students especially -- it is called the gymnasium before they got a college. they are very interested in the history of what their parents their grandparents did during the war. i know -- i notice in the audience when i ask them the same questions, i can see tears pouring from the eyes of the students. in disbelief that their nice parents committed such atrocities. i have testified at the trials in one city of a nazi that committed atrocities at a concentration camp. i was testifying against him. during the intermission, i was trying to get from the hall where the process took place to the men's room. a young man approached me. he said mr. arbeiter, excuse me can i speak to you. i said, of course you can. he said i am there every day during the trial to listen. i'm a holocaust student. i learn a lot about the holocaust. and i believe everything that you are saying, what happened to you. one mistake you are making -- the man that is sitting there is not the one that committed those atrocities. he is a good man, he's my father. he is a good husband. i said it is very possible that he's a good man and a good father. but during the war, he was a mean person, he was a murderer, he was killing innocent people. children babies. this is the man that is sitting there. the young people in the audience want to know. they ask such important questions because they want to know. there is a big difference between the elder generation and the young people. the elder generation says we talked about it, it happened a long time ago, why don't we stop? let's move on. the young people, and now more of them in germany, the young people want to know. they want to learn. they want to know what happened in germany. a what to know answers to the questions that we are asking. how can a civilized nation like that become murderers? commit unbelievable atrocities. and this is what we also speak in the schools here. because the young people here want to know. like i said, they are going to be the future leaders. they will know, from what they learned from us. if they do not learn from us they will not know what happened. from us, they learn. they can carry it on. again, there is a great interest, a great demand for holocaust survivors. i know there is a representative here. i've spoken on many occasions for facing history to students and schools. we did make, two years ago i made a documentary a movie in poland and germany. it is called "i promised to my father." it was from the question i said before. when my father sent me over to the other line after the selection. they were sent to the death camp in treblinka and murdered there. my father said, if you survive remember to carry on the jewish life and jewish traditions. this was with me every day during my life during the concentration camps. i have been doing it for the past 65 years since i arrived in the united states. ken rendell: in terms of people asking how could this happen, we try to show that in the museum with pageantry, the music all of the things that people did get caught up in. it was marketing a war. the common denominator in all of hitler's speeches was anti-semitism. the loss of nationalism, the humiliation of world war i and versailles. the economy. these are the problems affecting people every day. the punchline in every killer speech is it is because of the jews. people getting conduct in that pageantry -- colors, designs public and -- propaganda. it was an incredible feat of marketing a war. i want to change our focus for a little. many textbooks, and i saw this with my daughter in school, stress social movements over leadership. the russians learned that by not having any specific leaders in the military, they were getting decimated by germany. one leader argued for putting back officers and leaders and the russians came together. churchill, for example, i understand it is not taught in british schools now. paul, you are in a perfect position to comment. our interpretation is that it is leaders and people -- you cannot have one without the other. what do you run into with this? paul reid: i'm an unapologetic great man theory of history historian. and so, to not teach churchill or stalin or roosevelt or lincoln or george washington -- not only not teach, but not put them into the context -- that is what i think the history student who leaves the classroom not with the chronological facts and the dates and the number of chapters in a certain book. goes home thinking, thinking thinking. the first line of defense there is going to be is the teacher. if the teacher has textbooks that are horribly politically incorrect or revised, it is not going to happen. i heard izzy say and other folks today, these students are our next generation of leaders. no and i'm not being cynical. if they are not imputed with a love and a respect of history the next generation of sheep. from a classroom somewhere there may be a leader. if they are not aware of churchill, the case you were mentioning, in great britain then how can they take away a feeling of how heroic the stance of the english people was during 1940-1941? again, if the great men and women are not being taught, there is something wrong. i would add one thing. that is, professor kennedy was talking about history and what ifs, that is always fun to do. but there is a sense of teaching kids contingencies in the dictionary sense of the word, events that could happen and do or might not happen and do not. we want to put history into order, chronological and this happened and this happened and this happened. but it is a mess. it's a kaleidoscopic mess. as it's being born, if you will, history. the sense of contingencies, it is not a what if, it actually happened what now were the repercussions, the fallout? again, i have not been in a classroom in a long time. i would like to think of the visual aids and museum visit and artifacts, especially for the great schoolchildren, they can just work magic. finally, i have at home every "time" magazine published during world war ii. they belong to build manchester's mother, she got them in oklahoma city. six years times 52 weeks. it is one of the reasons the book took me nine years. i could not stop reading those "time" magazine's half of the reports were wrong. that was part of the story appeared i was like a kid in a candy store with those magazines and other sources and artifacts and meeting folks like you izz y. one of my best friends is i-96-year-old retired army major. he thought as a major under patton and led a brigade of tanks in the battle of the bulge. a great man. i know that not every student is going to grow up and want to be a historian. but if they just love it and grasp the relationships and the contingencies and the importance of it -- if not, we will raise a generation of sheeps. thanks. ken rendell: good way to put it. susan wilkins: in our classrooms, getting at the issue of leadership, i think we want students to understand these leaders are not born great leaders. they have to make difficult choices along the way. having students understand why certain choices are made when they are made is an important intellectual exercise. we often use the appropriately named choices program and out of the watson institute of brown university. it will take some of these very controversial and important moments in history and really ask students to do some research and try to understand why the decisions that were made were made. one example that comes to mind is the appeasement policy before the outbreak of the war. students today look back on that and saying what were they thinking? why would you ever appease a person like hitler? i think it is very important to stop students and say look, we are talking about very intelligent people who were making these decisions. so that is a very good question -- why appeasement? instead of brushing it off and saying they just did not know what they were thinking, really delve into it and say why did they choose appeasement? their were sort of rational reasons for the decision at that time. in addition to highlighting the role of the great luminaries, i think it is also important to try and put students back into that time period and have them think through the issues that these leaders had to think through at that time. ken rendell: just commenting on that i think appeasement was based on the fact that good people could not imagine that there could ever be another war like world war i. it was called the great war. the losses were staggering in england and france. they just cannot conceive that germany would ever do it again. it was very hard for good people to understand evil. i want to ask a question that relates to everyone. it is kind of combining several of the questions that we had. we find this to be a fine line. we have our own policy about exposing students to evil. if you overwhelm people, they shut off and they are not going to look and you cannot get to them. we are trying to hook people. hook them into the experiences. how do kids in your schools today dealing with the evil of the holocaust, deal with the question of the united states working with stalin, and a person as evil as hitler to his own country? but it was necessary. and we do it today. people look at all the alliances we have with dictatorships and places with no human rights. how are kids reacting to evil? kerry, do you want to -- kerry dunne: it is a tough question. one where i think a skilled teacher is essential to be able to make the judgment calls about what is appropriate for which age group and what they can handle. we have had a lot of teachers who have had success using "the diary of anne frank" with middle school students. they might hold back on disturbing images with that population and wait until high school to introduce that. i think that is a reasonable judgment call. but the evil piece, it is hard. especially when you are looking at students who may be our own the ethnic or religious background -- maybe are of the ethnic or religious background that was victimized during world war ii or another troubling event of history. i think there needs to be a place for them to debrief and talk about their emotions around this. the wrong answer would be to not teach it. the wrong answer would be to not address these chapters in our history. ken rendell: any other comments? then we are going to go to questions from the audience. : susan wilkins: teaching the holocaust is a difficult topic. not that students can inot understand, but for them to empathize, 6 million is unfathomable. if there were only more mr. arbeiters who could speak every year to our classes, that would go a long way. i've tried in the past to use sources like showing "the pianis t," which i think is an excellent account of the escalation against jews by the nazi regime. i found it was overpowering for my students. that was a case where it was too much. the united states holocaust museum has excellent online sources. one of the sites i have had elements of their site i've had success with is the individual placards -- stories of individuals who experienced the holocaust and some survived and most did not. that puts more of a singular human phase to this -- singular human face to this crime and traged. -- and tragedy. as far as the stalin peace, that, i think, is something i think is not difficult for students to understand. an alliance of necessity. they will already have learned about least honest regime and the rise of totalitarianism in the soviet union. we show that this was not an alliance that lasted. an fact, the u.s. allies with western democratic nations. that i do not think is troubling to students ken rendell:. i hope we have time for a couple questions. yes? >> i would like to start by k acknowledging -- if anyone is interesting in finding out where our holocaust and other witnesses to history are speaking or any of that, any of our extensive collection of videotapes and resources, i would refer you to facinghistory.org. what can we do as ordinary business people to support the teaching of this history? kerry dunne: i will answer that first. teaching about the holocaust and world war ii is complex and hard. it is an area where teachers could you support it -- could you support. -- could use support. supporting organizations like facing history and the holocaust museum do such a good job of providing training. it is a good place for the business community to start. the business community has a powerful voice. i would like to see them use more about the importance of teaching history at all. it would have some impact on our legislative and political leaders in making sure that happens. ken rendell: we have time for one more question. yes, sir? >> a question for mr. arbeiter. i've been trying to find examples of the highest degree of courage during world war ii. i did not find it on the battlefield. i did not find it among the national leaders. it was among ordinary citizens and occupied, nazi-occupied countries who took in jewish children are jewish families. the same thing with anne frank. under extraordinary conditions of courage and the likelihood that they would be found. and either hurt themselves or their families would be punished. in the jewish kids would be killed. somehow they did this. they found examples all over the countries that were nazi- occupied. my question to a holocaust survivor why do you think these people did that? took that risk and show that courage? israel arbeiter: that question can be answered with, in two parts. number one, it is true. some people and some countries saved jews they did hide them at the risk of their own lives and their families. the penalty by the germans for catching anybody saving or hiding jews was very severe. it was either send you to a concentration camp or the death penalty. but the question is, if it was morally important to save another life, when you save a life, you save the whole world. if it was morally important to save some lives of their neighbors, of their friends, why was there so few that did.? on the other hand were the bad people which did hide jews as long as they could get paid. they even invited jews to hide in their homes or whatever, for being paid. for whatever jewelry or whatever they could get. when the jews, the people they were hiding, did not have any more, they turned them over to the germans. in some cases, they took away from them what they possessed and turned them over to the germans. you had two parts. it depends on which country. the worst that was was p oland. it is quite a long story. ken rendell: i think sometimes the moral alternative to not helping is worse than the possibility of what happened if you did. it is certainly something i've heard from people. i want to thank pioneer for doing all this. all of us look at the newspapers every day and the world has gone to hell. pioneer is really doing something against partisanship and in examining all kinds of subjects. an i think we owe a great debt to pioneer for what they do to help society. thank you all. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] >> with live coverage of the u.s. house on c-span and the senate on c-span2, on c-span3 we show you the most relevant congressional hearings and public affairs events. on weekends, c-span3 is the home to american history tv. with programs that tell our nation's story. including the civil war's

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