Question is the word we. How is this counter messaging going to be organized . To what extent is it going to be spontaneous . Does it represent the youth of the region . My friends from the arab world keep insisting to me that as powerful and intimidating as is i. S. Messaging is, what is dominant in arabic is what i call the freedom spirit, the square statement i am connected and i am not going to take it anymore, and i wont take it from an authoritarian leader and i am going to live in my own world. Somehow that message that spirit of connectiveness, i think, of free citizens, which is still there and we get too depressed about the arab winter sometimes, and its still there and that has to become more of the dominant narrative. It probably needs help from governments, but i worry in the post snowden age about swallowing the poison pill. I worry about steps that seem sensible in terms of messaging that end up limiting the message, or undercutting it. I think this is an area where its crucial to get it right, but one thing that i think the u. S. Has learned is the United States is not a credible messenger in telling young muslims what islam is, how they should live and who their right enemies and allies are and that has to come from the region and has to be mobilized quickly. There are lots of smart people i know, who could help do this tomorrow, but the pathway for them to do it that doesnt end up, as i say, undercutting their efforts in the future is very complicated. Judge webster and i had lunch a few weeks ago and we discussed the video showing the burning of the jordanian pilot and how Something Like that can resonate with people around the world and the discussion we had focused on the fact that it resinates with so many of these young men that are marginalized and who see an opportunity for mobilization and a sense of purpose and a mission, and in a video like that which is awful and unbelievable for all of us, a meeting out of justice and somebody who flew a airplane and bombed civilians and pays for deeds in the same way they did, and that messaging is difficult to defeat. I agree with you, young men, especially those under 40 there is no mainstream message for them to latch on to. They already rejected that. They already have been pushed to the margins. I dont think there is a message that can reach a lot of them, that small number. A broader audience perhaps, but i am afraid that when a video comes out like that and its accepted by so many people were in tremendous trouble here. Steve, i want to take advantage of your background in intelligence here, which is impressive to say the least. You touched on a few of these things before, but can you talk about the intelligence challenges here, and before you answer i will say when we had live troops on the ground, and i am not suggesting we do it again, but when you have 100,000 troops on the ground, you have a huge station active in places like baghdad and to have a lot of people forward a lot of opportunities to network with people on the ground citizens of a country like iraq to develop the kind of sense and Situational Awareness that can enable your operations. What are the intelligence challenges with such a small footprint on the ground and also given an addversary like isis . Lets divide it into technical and human, and in this environment, intelligence plays a role which is an influence role which is supportive of u. S. Policy with groups and others who they are in contact with but lets think about it for a second those categories. There are forward platforms in which you can launch and the closer you can get to the target, the easier you can recruit to collect intelligence. In iraq, significant possibilities from which they can launch, and there is its my understanding some solid collection. Never good enough, but its collection that is solid. Now, remember, and i do it for my soapbox. In the intelligence business there are secrets and then there are also mysteries. My example is always remember the young fruit vendor that set himself on fire in tunisia, and there is nobody on the universe except god going on in his head when he set himself on fire. Their ability to close their ranks, and once again i use my example that is only known by two, three or four people. Dont forget that espionage is still in all countries punishable in many cases by prison, and by isis, its punishable by deaths. Understand its not that easy to step right up and say whatever you want United States, i am happy to help. Always keep that in mind when you are thinking about intelligence collection. Syria becomes a more difficult challenge. Remember assads father actually constructed what some could call a state in terms of Security Services and they can control and sawuppress the people and so as a result you already highlight the difficulties of the collection problem. The collection problem is also compounded because moving forward in syria you have to spend just as much time trying to stay alive as you do trying to figure out how to collect things. As a result i would identify at the moment the syrian challenge is probably greater than the iraqi challenge because we still have longstanding relationships in iraq that are quite productive, and i would offer at the moment, that relations are not as efficient as four or five or six years ago, and there has to be a reliance on partners. I would like to compliment the jordanians. They have stepped up and put their people in harms way to assist. Some of the other services are doing the best they can and in some cases the best they can is really not very good or certainly not good enough. As a result and i am certainly not looking for the United States to lead everything. All i am talking about in this arena that you asked about the United States has the ability to lead and guide in a way that could be effective and so as a result the relationships with Foreign Countries become very important in trying to persuade them and convince them this work with us is effective for them, too. One comment i would like to make in reference to the messaging piece, the advent of social media and the ability to put stories out quickly the abilities to spread fabrications greater than it has ever been so as a result of Intelligence Officers is becoming increasingly difficult because the one question you ask yourself is has what i just received or heard, is it true . I have a sense now that mr. Lennons famous sentence was if you say a lie often enough it becomes the truth is actually becoming more and more prevalent in the middle east as well and god knows the middle east has created conspiracies in the last 500 or 600 years and its not a matter of collecting the information and saying this man said this because he was there, and its also a matter of before it goes to the president saying is this actually true, did this happen . There used to be something called afghan math, and john will remember this, and we just attacked the soviets and killed 400 people. Wait how many did you kill . 200. Slow down there. How many people . Maybe about four guys in a jeep. My point to that is in the current environment these things become important because what you dont want is a president making bad judgments and you are so anxious to deliver the information you have not done what you need to do. Its the ruthless applications of methodologies and is it true. I think there is more opportunity for success on the syrian side and it becomes more difficult and it will rely, i think, on a great deal and efficient assistance from the middle east that have capabilities on their own. We have been focusing on isis and we touched on syrian and the intelligence side, and the big act we have not gone into in great detail yet, and thats iran, and with regard to isis and what is going on in iraq and syria, it cannot be divorced certainly from the perspective of the iranians, and is iran playing offense or defense . Are they more afraid of isis coming in and creating a state in iraq or are they trying to take advantage of this, or both . I think they are being opportunistic as always so sometimes that is offense and sometimes defense, and most of the time its a combination. I should just note before focusing on iran something we have not talked about but is important when you think going forward. Although the u. S. Has not been successful overall, it has had Great Success in working with its friends in kurd astan. I travelled all the way from the west and down into tpheuf asrau province with the peshmerga a few months ago and saw how the peshmerga working quietly with elements of the u. S. And Coalition Power have pushed isis back, and they have held their own, and theres sort of a continuing battle between the forces there and the main isis camp, and i think its called huh we jaw to the southwest. Thats a success, and it would be a mistake not to note it in this discussion and not to think, how do you build on it . You know the question has been should you send weapons directly to them . Can they get weapons to the kurds quickly enough that that option is not discussed anymore. The iranians the iranians when you think about how the Kurdish Forces were rocked in their bill in august and september, how their lines really cracked how dangerous it was that it was threatened and who was the first in. They were supplying ammunition and supplying i am told individual people you know, to help and bolster the lines to work with the peshmerga to get new people in to get their command stronger. The bill was saved and the u. S. Came in after and our help was also crucial, but the iranians have a they have been working the same network of sources and assets for 20 years or more. They know the terrain, and they know the shia landscape, obviously, and they know kurdistan with meticulous detail. In the iraqi war, never again will we allow iraq to threaten our fundamental security and they do everything they can to prevent it. One more comment about iran. As i have watched the iranians and their proxies the shia militias, i see they have an ability to start fights and not to finish them in part because of the areas they are fighting are typically sunni areas where theyre not sufficiently welcome. So in tikrit, the shia militias moved to tikrit and got stalled and the u. S. Air power moved in and finished the fight, but tikrit still, from what i know, is largely unpopular and they have not moved people back in to get the hold and build part going. You could argue the same in anbar province. Irans strategy, whatever it is you know iran shares in the terrible setbacks in the loss of anbar province. How the u. S. And Coalition Operations with iran will be shaped in the period after a nuclear deal is reached assuming that in the next couple weeks by july 9, that could be done and i think thats one of the real challenges for the u. S. And iranian officials. It is going to be possible to have some more Effective Alliance that draws in sunni countries. Saudi arabia will have to be comfortable with that. Is that going to be possible after the deal . I dont know, but i sure will be trying to find out. A comment . I have been a long believer and david knows this, with engagement in iraq. I dont think we can go through life and not have engagement with a country like iran and as a result i am hopeful there is some agreement to be worked out, but whatever happens what i dont want to see is a disconnection, again n. A way. I am aware of the comments about dealing with the devil. I get that. But i would like to offer sharp criticism of saoul money. He is a killer of americans and he is responsible for the death of americans and i dont want anybody to leave this room thinking he issaves the day. Keep in mind keep separate the differences between Strategic Engagement with iran which is important with u. S. Security and highlighting what some people are suggesting as the most wonderful and significant and contributing person in the middle east. Thank you for the soapbox moment. Steve, you have had to deal with a lot of pretty unsavory regimes in the past in order to further National Security goals. Two years ago we wanted to get rid of assad but i think we had a hands off policy in order to one, not bring about a new libya or even a somalia as far as chaos, and number two, i think because as we negotiate a nuke deal with iran we want to keep that issue comfortable with the iranians and not pull a leg out from the stool they are sitting on. How do we deal with assad now . I will sound like what i am a. Former cia officer. Its my experience to engage with people and part of it because we learned early on if you are not engaged eye to eye you have no chance of influencing your behavior. You were kind enough to refer to the libyan experience. I would use that as an example, and once you get engaged with people unsavory, if you want to influence them you have to stay engaged. Thats why the intelligence organizations are built to do that sort of thing. I dont know if theres engagement with the syrians. I hope there is some discussion being taken place to so assad he has two choices to figure out a exit role of some kind or to die in syria, and maybe like mr. Gadhafi, maybe thats his plan all along but he doesnt strike me as the same type of person. We have to use whatever tools are available to engage them in a fashion that tries to prevent this from creating even a greater opening and even greater vacuum if Bashar Al Assad is destroyed inside damascus, because my concern is that without some sort of assistance in shaping that future, there is nothing that can help you predict what group, what other sort of organization might take over inside syria and it could be far more radical than what we are currently dealing with. Its so uncertain at the moment there is something we should think about doing to try and shape the future and shape the exit regardless of who we have to do it with. Now, i will admit to you and i know some people are quite capable of this, but it takes a certain sort of person to hang in there on this because its really unpleasant work, because you will be facetoface with people you hoped you would never meet. But the point is, if you dont engage you have no chance of shaping, and they will get in through second and third and fourth parties to try to interpret what is going on in the United States and its a very difficult task but very important. Dealing with our adversaries and enemies is complicated, and also dealing with our friends. Lets think about turkey. A nato ally sharing a huge border with syria, and this has been a difficult relationship over the past four or five years. There is clear evidence of these groups operating from the turkish side of the border here. How do we deal with turkey that has different strategic goals than we do when it comes to this region . That has been a puzzle the administration has not been able to solve. We have had the confusion of the turkish parliamentary elections and its not clear how they want to play that in terms of whether the ak party will try to govern alone or call elections again soon or seek a coalition partner, and it was not clear as of last night. You could argue that the turks are now living with their own inability to make good policy decisions in that one of their nightmares is happening. The pyd, the Syrian Kurdish militia supported by Kurdish Forces from turkey and iraq is sweeping across northeastern syria in one of the most effective campaigns in this war, and when i talk to people, they say to me peshmerga, good fighters in iraq, and the pyd, really good fighters, tough tough fighters. Nobody likes to say so but they are trained by the pkk, which has been a mortal enemy of the turkish government and considered by the turks as a terrorists group. From turkeys standpoint you have this beennd south of their border increasingly controlled by a Group Trained and to some extent regarded as dangerous fundamentalist. They will have to make choices with us about their security and ours. I guess would come back to the basic puzzle here with syria, which is getting buyin from all of the key players. Russia, who is directly threatened by the collapse of the assad regime. Turkey, which has a ragged unstable border, and newly embolded kurdish militias, and saudi arabia that wanted to overthrow bough shar no batter what. Now, jordan says hold on. At some point these various powers need to Work Together to identify the elements of a new government that would include people from the army, and people who are acceptable figures from the old regime and people who are members of the opposition who were willing to sit down as part of a new government of transition, and clan leaders who have power in the mountains in the northwest and somehow that has to be done, and thats its going to happen, its just a question of whether people come to their senses or another 100,000 die before it happens. With each of these things you know how its going to turn out. You just dont know when people will get the political clarity to make it happen. Thats what i hope we will get more of from washington. Finish up with the question on foreign fighters. I think its clear that a lot of young men and some young women from around the world to see it as a state, and they not only want to fight but clothe people and provide food and work in the sharia courts and theres lots of state building in their minds and they see it as a place to live out their lives but no doubt about it among the 20,000 plus foreign fighters some will return and be incredibly skilled and motivated. What is more of a threat in your mind and getting back to your point upstairs earlier, what are some of the challenges with regard to values . I think you have to work it from the objective backwards. If there are young men who are in the United States for example, who are inspired today to carry out a Terrorists Attack of equivalent of what took place on the beach in tunisia recently obviously that is more dangerous. However there is nothing quite as dangerous as a seasoned combat veteran who returned home with the intent of overthrowing his own government. As a result i think there is a new thing that has to take place here a new evolution of counterterrorism work that focuses on this in a way that we have not had to before. I mean the numbers of foreign fighters are unbelievable. I remember in the days of the ea