Pamela she was very outgoing warm. In some ways, they were opposites, and yet, they had similarities, as well. Both had a fondness of riding horses and and reading. She was a very likable person. You get that not only from contemporaries of hers, but from her own memoirs, as well. Susan would it be fair to say she was the better politician of the two . Pamela she could be very politically astute in in some of her dealings with cabinet members and their wives and the public, but she would most often defer to her husband for political realm. Susan do you have any thoughts on on her and her personality . William she seems to have been very protective, i think, of her husband, too. And she was not hesitant to give her opinion on things. She seems to be a woman who knew who cut her claws, as they used to say, exactly where she wanted. Susan what does that mean . William she knew what she wanted to do, what she wanted to accomplish, and the rest of the stuff could be arranged. Susan and she was unusual in the fact that she had been educated that timeframe. So, she completed Something Like 15, 16 years of schooling. Pamela yes, she had gone to a Neighborhood School as a young child with her siblings and then to a female academy in the city city of st. Louis, a boarding school that she attended until about age 18. Susan well, the Grant Administration is a twotermer. And it was full of so many stories, it was hard for us to find just a few to put on the screen to give you a sense of what it was like. In 1870, president grant was successful in having the 15th amendment to the constitution ratified, giving people the right to vote regardless of race. Of course, still not women. Then in 1871, the force acts were passed. That was antikkk legislation. It was something that president grant was much involved in. And that was to protect voters in the south against the rising work of the kkk. 1873 and well talk more about this later the panic of 1873 big downturn that resulted from some of the policies of the administration. And in 1876, the battle of little bighorn was fought. So, thats just some of the important points during that administration. Well, as he brings on his cabinet, the well, the story of the Grant Administration is that there were they were no strangers to political patronage. So, for both of you, how what kind of advisers did he surround him himself with . And, again, how involved was julia in that process . Pamela most of the people that grant appointed, at least to his cabinet, he either knew of or knew personally. For example, elihu washburne, a former congressman of illinois he appointed as secretary of state, kind of as a thankyou for having supported for washburne having supported him through the war. And others were Business People that he thought would do the best job. Some of them turned out to be not so trustworthy as as deserving of it as he had placed in them. Susan but tone is often set at the top. So, what kind of tone did the grants set for their their cabinet and their administration . Pamela well, actually, i think at first, grant made the decisions himself, and i think that caused some friction with congress, especially members of his own party who expected him to consult with them in his selection of cabinet members. And he made his decisions entirely on his own. William but he was, i think the whole theme of the hero was success, Great Success. It was before the panic, the National Panic of 73, and the people grant associated with were people like himself who had come from not a lot and had gained a whole lot, so whether it was in business or military or what, he was attractive to those kind of people, and she was too, and they entertained them, they associated with them, and it was certainly a more lose supervision by the government than today over what politicians did. And grant, the idea was that grant would be the chief executive over a great company. The white house was called the executive mansion. The white house was just what on street talk, but executive mansion. This is where the executive of the great nation lived, and the congress was the board that ran the country. And that was you know oversimplifying, but sort of the idea. And grant didnt always stick with it. Susan well, you know the insides of the white house like nobody else, and weve got some video of what is now today the white house treaty room. Were going to show people that right now, and that was the room that grant used for his cabinet. And were looking at the pictures right now. Will you tell us a little bit about the table thats in the room . William they purchased the table. The grants purchased the table in 1871, as i remember, in philadelphia, and its sorry its been in the white house ever since. It was brought back to this use in the kennedy administration, but it was used clear through the beginnings of Theodore Roosevelts administration. A very elaborate, carved table supposedly made for the same purpose. That room was a sitting room always. And lincoln made it into a Reception Room where you youve took reports, clerks took reports to register them, and then Andrew Johnson took it in as a cabinet room and grant refurnished it as a cabinet room with other things you see here. That sofa, in the back. And Different Things were in the house at that time. It was a grubbier a grubbier room than it is today. I mean, the spittoons and and lots of political memorabilia and longbooks. Susan political memorabilia and definitely cigars. And president grant was known to smoke up to 20 cigars a day, is that right . Pamela yes, he picked up that habit during the civil war, when after one of his victories, he was sent cigars in appreciation, and he had so many he started smoking them on a very regular basis. Susan we invite your participation in our program. Thats what makes it work for us, this every week, and you can do it in a number of ways. You can call us, and hear our phone lines. 2025853880. If you live in the eastern or central time zones. If you live in the western or the part of the United States, mountain or pacific time zones or beyond, our phone number is 2025853881. You can also send us a message on facebook. We already have some interesting questions coming in. Find cspans Facebook Page and join the conversation. And you can tweet us. If you tweet us, use the hashtag firstladies, and we will include some of your questions and comments in our conversation. Well, julia grant, by all accounts, as we said in the outset, loved life in the white house. Here is one quote similar to the one we used in the outset. My life in the white house was like a bright and beautiful dream. How did she approach her time there . She considered herself hostess to the nation, and was going to do her best to ensure that she acted in that manner that the public wouldve received very well. She did compare her time there to her life, her early life at white haven, and i think that was more a reflection of the fact that it was the first time in many years that the family spent eight years together without separation. Because of his war duties. Correct. William and part of her job, as she clearly envisioned it, was to make this a model house of the nation. Other first ladies have felt that way too, but it was part of grants program, and she they entertained lavishly, very lavishly, not in a fancy sense but an elegant since, and she handled that very well herself. Grant brought his old cronies in as much as he could, and he brought the and a cook in from the army for the chef at the white house, and he this diplomatic banquets, he would serve big roast beef slices and apple pie with cheese on it and the diplomats were horrified, so julia let him go, and hired valentino, who was a chef, a wellknown chef in new york at sherrys and he he came there and turned it into a very cosmopolitan table. And flowers, costume, she was very stringent about rules. All the white house staff had just worn business suits. They were half guard, half staff. They had to be in full dress and they had to stand at attention in the Entrance Hall on shifts. And theres a story she tells herself, where a woman would come to the womens noon receptions, and if you did not wear a hat, you were a part of in the house party, greeting the guests. If you did, you were a outside guest, and women from time to time would go into the coat room and take their hats off and come out, and mrs. Grant said they never repeated that a second time. Susan well, how was this all received by the nation . Because one of the other things that was happening is that there was quite a burgeoning press corps and lots of coverage of the couple in the white house. William theres a lot of very good press describing them. People were so interested in him, and all the details of what he did. And he would appear in public. He and his friend, general beall, who lived across lafayette park, would get in races down pennsylvia avenue on their selkies, with their horses, and as you know, grant was absolutely a horseman to his soul. His father dealt in horses. He was raised that way, and grant knew horses. So, he had quite a stable. He brought his own coachman to Albert Hawkins to the white house. Hawkins stayed there until the automobile took over as head of the stables. He was a black man who was very, very grand looking, and more obsession with livery and uniform, and managed the stables with his staff. And grant would spend time in the daytime in his stables, but the elegant equippage the grants had was part of the story. And the public liked it, because it looked good, it looked successful, it looked peaceful and of course, the accumulation of successful friends, which was easy to do, was one of the sad things. He trusted people that he shouldnt have trusted. Pamela well, i think too, the fact that as you said, the family was there and so while while there was this opulence on one level, it was very down to earth in in the fact that with four Young Children still at home, julia for example closed off the back yard so that the children could play. And it had been a public place. Susan help people understand the economy of the United States at this point. Was the south still reeling in the years after the war . William it depends on where you were. Louisiana sugar came right back on its feet and was just as red as it was until the hurricane of 1883, but you go up into mississippi, there was some pretty horrible poverty and in georgia as well. Its not all blamed on sherman, its the collapse of the Cotton Market because the english went to india for cotton, and egypt. And that lapse of years, you know, of the blockade, it broke them. I mean, there are new orleans flourished. You know, 6,000 Union Soldiers elected to settle in new orleans. And it was so it wasnt all like gone with the wind, with everyone starving. It was it was coming back but it was a different culture. It wouldnt be agricultural, have agricultural florescence again until later in the 19th century. Susan but the north was in the midst of griping industrial revolution. William and these were the days of the big financiers on wall street. Pamela right, exactly. The machinery of war. A continuation of the war and expansion. And they were getting ready for the centennial of the nation and showing off the advances that had been made in the past 100 years. And most of those were technological advances. The old farming equipment to the new modern technology. Transcontinental railroad. Transportation was bringing people closer together, making it much easier to get across country, so. Heres just a few of those big susan heres just a few of those big things that happened during the grant presidency. As pam mentioned, the Transcontinental Railroad was completed in 1869, just as the grants were coming into the white house. 1870, the establishment of the National Weather service and the issuing of their first forecast. 1871, the great chicago fire happened. And in 1872, the First National park was established in yellowstone. And, as we just heard, the philadelphia centennial exhibition. How big a deal was this for the nation to celebrate its anniversary . Pamela it was huge. It was almost like a worlds fair. There would have been people from all over the world attended it. But it was really a time for america to shine, and really become show that it was coming into its own as a world power. William and mrs. Grant loved it. She went there and she bought two things for the white house with public money. One was a shield that showed characters from miltons paradise lost. Go and then she bought a more endearing piece. I dont know what happened to that, but what it was a centerpiece. She hated the old james monroe centerpiece of 1818 with the mirrors on it, so she bought a hiawatha silver centerpiece, which is about this big, and it shows the gitchegoomee with the with all the cattailed and the weeds, and the canoe in the middle of it and hiawatha lounging on a bearskin rug. And that was the new centerpiece for the white house she bought at the fair. It was on exhibit. And its still in the silver closet at the white house. Susan so, nick stuffit asks on twitter, did julia grant have any hired assistants who helped her at the white house . How were first ladies staffed at this point in the process . William 202 7488000 there was no social secretary then. Usually, the ladies got together and filled out the blanks for invitations. And they all used blanks. It was the, you know, the president and mrs. Grant in the honor of blank, blank. And their friends would come over for a tea party and they would fill out the blanks, usually. She had mary muller as the housekeeper. She isnt that the one who traveled to europe with her . They were very close. She called her a most excellent woman. And i daresay she helped with some of that. But most of the of social duties, there might be a clerk from the office that would help, but there was no social staff until mrs. Theodore roosevelt. Susan now, heres a question about their days preceding coming to the white house from brian watkins, who wants to know, grants family was often close by during the war in washington, d. C. Did julia have a president s a presence, excuse me, in washington before the election . Pamela yes. Actually, because grant was still head of the army after the war and then for a short while interim secretary of war. And then she talks about the receptions that he held, that they held, in their home in d. C. And that it was a natural progression then into the white house. William dont you think she was one of those women that attracted people, too . She was a personable woman and she cared about people. When someone had a hard time or something, she went to them. She was a she was a nice person. Susan one of the interesting stories that i read of the allusions to tensions between mary lincoln and julia grant. Julia grant would come during the war years, certainly sometimes with the general, but it seemed as though there was some bit of competition that mary lincoln might have felt. Let me read you just this one little paragraph from a book called rating the first ladies, john roberts. He writes, on another occasion, julia was in a military camp when mary lincoln visited. She imperiously commanded julia to leave the room, as is done in royal courts. Mary ordered julia to back away from her, so that julia never turned her back on the first lady, as if the first lady were a queen, and julia a mere commoner. If the humiliating treatment was intended to provoke an outburst, mary lincoln failed at it. Julia later denied she had any ill feeling about her treatment at the hands of the first lady. Pamela im not familiar with that particular story. William im not familiar with that one, either. It could have happened during the steamboat days, down when below richmond was being defeated. And, boy, there were problems there with ms. Lincoln. And shes very kind in her recollections of mrs. Lincoln. But when those recollections were dictated, it was years later, and mrs. Lincolns tragedy, you know, and her insanity and all that had happened. But there were problems with mrs. Lincoln. She was very jealous of lincoln, of women and lincoln. I think theres absolutely no reason for that, but she was. And she would be very ugly to people that said and general lord made a remark once that it was it was a feisty horse. And he said, you need a feisty horse like that to keep up with your husband, or words to that effect. Mrs. Lincoln said, and what do you mean by that, sir . Susan we are going to see videos of a few of the grant preserved sites. You work at one of them. How many are there altogether . Pamela many are there altogether . There are several homes that are owned and operated by the National Park service or the various states that theyre located in. Then grants tomb, and, of course, each of the battlefields have connecting sites. And then there are some that are no longer there. Susan the first one is in galena, illinois. Now, this to a modern ear sounds fairly shocking, but because of his great achievement in the war, when he came home, people built and gave to him a fully furnished house, or at least more than one of them. How was that viewed in the day . Was that considered ethically appropriate to do . 202 7488001 pamela apparently so. It was welcoming a hero. William look at the british and wellington. I mean, you know, it was done. Houses were given to people at various places. Its unusual to see an american history, but it was certainly done with him. And he had to sell most of them; he didnt have the money to keep them. But they were fully furnished. Susan well, were going to visit the galena, illinois house. And this is where the grants lived in the years after the war and before coming to the white house. Lets take a look, because it sets the stage for their presidency. This home was a gift that 13 businessmen from galena purchased to give to the grant family in appreciation for his service during the war. Julia mentions in her memoirs coming up the hill and being presented this lovely villa, that she said was furnished with everything good taste could suoffer. The room that were in now is the parlor, which was the entertaining part of the home. And, of course, we all know that julia was an avid entertainer, loved it. The family spent quite a bit of time here in the parlor also. We know that mrs. Grant and their daughter ellen played the piano. So, you know, imagine the