Finished High School One the navy turned out to the first couple of years of post in over in asia and and then i was called back by the Selective Service system to reform the Draft Convention with them house. They promised a random lottery th it. Nonetheless, there was a there was an initial lottery that was prepared handle and would go through and lawsuits were filed against white house. My mother had truly been a random lottery and of my roommates from college from law school saying would you would you mind if we would you like to be reassigned . Wed like to have you come back and work on this project. So i came back, worked on the project. We got it straightened out. And from then, from there i was i was starting to go home to north carolina. Up. And when i got a call again from my old roommate saying, theres a position open under the west wing of white house and to help run the speechwriting speechwriting and so forth. And then i said, why dontu present yourself so i did. I did. And i said, this is a however and i i didnt know you were a diversity hire. I was a diversity. I was a d, i was a d i without knowing it. One of the first. I came in then with, with andand one of the interesting conversations i had was before i came they they werent quite sure if all of them were a price running, a speechwriting operation. Harold tripp guy, ha big on goldwater way back when. In any event, id gone to yale. Hed gone to yale, and we had it all. And we both okay, i didnt vote for the ill give him one year before the election start and thats what i said. Well, take one year tell me pat buchanan actually likes, diversity. I didnt1o write the letsprotestant yes but i think thats where im i, i think thats where i first met you early. What you werent writing for. Well that that was a b just look old that clinton. That was clinton. Clinton her cl to. Okay, we will. Okay. Anyway, how we got into the white house is you are the fortenberry force of the clinton administration. So you worked for nixon . Yeah, that was 71. Yep. 71 72, 73. So what was the Nixon White House like . Oh oh, it was it was a little scary, actually it was, you know, there was a time when the be well run operation. I did a first class job in king some really talented people in the government. I think it was the best group of republican weve been in have been tracked. Moynihan yeah. Moynihan pat moynihan was a major, major figure like that. But you know, the greenspans of the world the various of their various people who ran programs that were fugitive estate of secretaries of state. The defense department. Rumsfeld was there but baker started as chief of staff, moved over to the Treasury Department, went from the Treasury Department to run a state department over th it it was really good. But then, you know rgd that was just cataclysmic event i was in a position of run by this time i was running the speechwriting and Research Team was pretty big big team and i knew bob woodward from college woodward to call me when they had a hot story at the post. They would call me and say, i need read you the first two or three paragraphs of this and see if this factor it. Im not im not going to change it just because you dont like the way its written. But i do need to know if the facts weree had a sort of relationship and and nixon blessed the alking to woodward, but for a year and a half to bond behind the scenes. It helped to take some of the out of the process, but not all it was a Richard Nixon was the stuff of shakespeare. I mean yes this was a man who was one of the most talented ive seen in washington in the last 30 or 40 years. He was easily the best strategist along henry kissinger. Them together. You know, they really it out there at that at thatna and russia were where we were lockthe hip and opposition to the United States and Kissinger Nixon understood that if you can simply you can split them apart you can have a divide and conquer strategy. And thats why kissinger went to beijing. Ctedapar e y the 60 or theyre there working as First Responders to the storms and fires and Everything Else there are a lot of there are working hospitalsre people could be doing. They give us a year their tuition debt and we set them up with some of the things they help them get started in life. But become the foundation for moving forward and reuniting the country. I think we desperately need that and weve got weve got people john and both have been watching. Oh, does it wes moore about him. Hes got governor of, but hes very much in a really heck of an interesting and but along with that is gavin newsom governor, california, on the other side of the country west morris in maryland. Heres gavin newsom in california. And in the two officers that are talking to each other about how to build this National Service program because theyre both champions and i think somesimilar to that could make a huge d great in davids written about this wonderfully if y the who are on page 109. Yes it was a plumber from brooklyn a agricultural worker from california, a couple of from boston and this scion of an immigrant. Yes. And our mutual friend who we rlie peters, used to tell a story old jfk war friend named omalley that always loved and he was not out to put it. He was not Jackie Kennedy idea. A dinner guest, i think a fair ut it. And so mrs. Kennedy would say, i just dont see whatomalley. Well, what he saw ine japanese together. Yeah and theyd served together. Yeah. Right, gerald ford. Yeah. What was he like, sweet guy. Gerald ford was one of the only president s that iveears who didnt really want to be president. They nevers a very small category. Its a very small. But i bet it military victories in the 20th century. The but anyway, gerald ford came into the white house and and i and i got recruited back into the white house staff to be there andry difficult situation because ford speech. It were soild a comfort. It was hard to build support for them. But they tended to he tended to use a lot of one syllable words and it jt didnt make. It very, very interesting. So but that thats thor this point. Ford goes through the period he hes seen as not very smart but a nice guy, you know, a guy trying and he commanded a lot of it just people he wasnt ready to be president. But there was ford because he was sort of, you know, just of going slowly through them, then he left office. Well, three months after heter he left office, i got a call from his Office One Day and i said speech to give in the future. And he would really like to have you read the speech and give me your feedback. I said and i said, good. And i said, ohine okay, send it to me. I said, well okay, well get it to you overnight. Got me the thing and i got the speech. In a beautifully written speech, gorgeous page, long two or three syllable word, really excellent argument. A lot of like a boy compoundsentences good and sowas puffing on his pipe sort of behind things there listening to me sort of laughing at me. And he said to me after he heard the lesson and said president , i dont know. And its a beautiful speech but im not sure why you want it by your column. I do you want me to rewrite it for you and put it in your your you know, write it as you would have written it and said no. No. And he said, the point is, david, this is the first time ive hadugh free time on my schedule to write my ownright. Thats right. An god, we let that guy go for a year and a half without challenging his speeches. And he was sitting here capable of giving really speech. He lincoln, but he was darn good. And it was just in some ways i came away admiring that. Sure. You know, i have a lot of i think in the Rearview Mirror of history. Jerry ford is going to be will remember because he he was one of the last people who ethics and that go back to those seven president s all wearing milituniform. Since that time, weve had five president s, not one has worn a military to five. One has been and the car and have to give him credi w but its not exactly heavy duty left in to defend great state of texas from the state of oklahoma in the well not if you ask texans theyre very wary those folks. S so this is the four year carter period. Then you came back with president reagan. Yes, i do. I did. And it was and part. Jim beam. Mine a long time and he was partly responsible group of people to be on staff. And i think reagan understood better than anybody else how important it is to be before you got there and and wd to two or three other president s just before that was the presid got elected and he would bring with him the who had been with him when he would back home in the state, but he wouldnt bring any new people. And it was you know, it was a veryd it didnt work. You know as as a way of governing. And so that was an issue. And reagan understood that, convinced him of that. And a lot of time went into e white house staff and baker really did that. We had two groups of people we had we that were the california who were on his team. They basically were ideas. And because we feel it was the conservative wing of the Republic Party got elected and we felt, you cant you cant you cant walk away from that. You got to make sure you honor that. So they we set it up so that they california people were guardians of the faith. But the watching people knew how tore very, very that baker and company. Baker was a best to single chief of staff. I in American History and if you took any list of top ten people whove come into government over time, not only would he be on it, but three that reagan inaugurated. Now, look, ias im prochoice example and have been all my life. But i did think that he. You when you get your president get your leader youre not going to get 100 of what you want. And you got to decide. And i think reagan i think reagan will go down without fdr as two of the strongest fdr, but clear and clearly more important, a significant president. But i think reagan, if you look at the year since reagan stacks up veryoh, my god. He looks like cicero. Yeah im with general hair. Yeah but so the one thing to remember about jim baker is how a man managed to get past nancy reagan. Yes. Having run two campaigns against ronnie. Yeah. Because he ran theord campaign in 76 when reagan him and the Bush Campaign in 80. And ive always had a that one of the reasons mrs. Reagan said yes, that baker looked like her idea of a chief of staff. Yes, right. And he was. Yeah, they went to princeton. Well, you know, we didnt have ything. But youre right. We call that the vanderbilt of new jersey. But and that was that troika, right . It was ed meese, right. Is that correct . No brief story every every year in those g8 meeting that was meeting of thtop people, the president and prime minister, a small number of countries, like eight tries. And every good thing switched to the another person had responsibility for hosting the meeting well. Time, time, time and reagan. Oh the breaking name came up and he decided he wanted to take people down to the shores of virginia and and hold something down and he was in charge then of trying to run a set of conversations about International Economics and where the country was going, where the world going. Reagan had that on and he had to have a meeting with every not only with the g8 group as a whole, but he had to have individual meetings with each member of the g8. And so theref that he had to get a hold of. We had to write briefing papers. Andd thicker. It was like this when we finally had it done and baker took it to reagan and said, mr. President heres the briefing book for tomorrow. Thats a lot longer than it usually is. So, sir, could you simply could you scan dont you dont have to go. Dont have to read it very close to the place. Got and he sd to. Well, our other fear at that point was we had nancy, we didnt have our vote. And the morning, when we had our breakfast together, a group and there were like seven or eight of table, we talked to each other about 15 minutes into the eggs. Reagave got a confession to make. And we said, oh, you know that the sound of music was on last night. I said, no, we didnt know that. He said, well, thats my favorite movie. Ha ha. So and not a short one. Not so. I sat down at your briefing book last night and i started out and i have to tell you sound of music and i didnt get to bed till about 1 0 said oh my god, thats so helpful. Nancys not going to be there with that little knife coming after this. But heres what we learn. Heres what we learned. Reagan next day was better with the other people who he was meeting with. Then every time we took part. Why was came from his soul. Because he came from a d he did not he did not rely. Upon these briefing books that we on the staff in our areas thought he couldnt possibly get along without hey actually, it was good at what he did a very clear idea of where he wanted to go. And he was, you know, he was a thoughtful leader he w worlds smartest leader. He wasnt he certainly wasnt the most detailedhad a pretty firm sense. He had a pretty firm v was to bring a lot of people along. And it made a big difference but i learned a lot on that trip to that it was to williamsburg. It was just it was it was revealing it was revealing about how to run white house, how to govern to, i guess, the people who get elected. They cant be smart and everything but we ought to treat them with moree of the big problems right now with our leadership is that long as youre not the leader, but once you become the leader they go after you and theyre hammer and tongs after you. And you got to be ready forgot to be sort of prepared for that both psychologically and emotionally you know. So we cut to the theres a brilliant but somewhat disorganized young man from arkansas yes. Who has become president. Yep. And things are not going well in the white for you. Yes. You know clinton then. Yes. So to talk about bill. Well, i met i met. I was running u. S. News and world report that time and and we had bill clinton in as a speaker when we invite him up for lunch under, you get a sense of him and he would come in fairly regularly. So he and i got to know then and for a variety of reasons we got closer together over a period ofmuch so we became pretty good friends and. But i, i wasnt sure where i wanted to go with this. Clinton got to the point where he had really great intentions, but he didnt know quite how to well. And he didnt show the kind of respect you need to show to go other people, to follow you and help you try to help you through. And of course he had the whole thing with the the the woman and. I remember her name at point. I tried and tried to block it and she was she was a very nice woman understand she was also young and it its its still its a long story. But anyway, there was not a great whats to the next nixon story. And that is a extremely bright and extremely you know, governance really really well. He just hadnt brought his own his self under control you know, and he wasallowed himself to go far beyond where he should have been. And and, of course, then he got tangled up in. So he president than nixon. Like nixon, he was a better president. When people remember. And but i think he was actually he did some good things. But he also had these qualities these inner qualities that are so to me, as you know so well, the emphasis in necessarily what you what your program really big question is who are you . Do you knoo you are . Do you know what you believe . Do you know your principles . And you and do you have you found your true north, as its called . And because people have found their true north tend to be better leaders. Lincoln example was a prime example of the and and clinton had some of that but he had these forc that frankly got in his way and he was not he was not all he might have been. And of course, it was not easy to, because at that time we really had Newt Gingrich coming out for. And i have to tell you that i think the politics and the government at the National Level changed, when gingrich came to town it 1994 because he ghwith a set of beliefs, if you tear the house down and you tear down the president and we start again. And he was you know, he was a revolutionary. And in some respects and it changed. It did change. A quick story about gingrich. I was george h. W. Bushs, and it took 17 years. It was supposed to be posthumous, but the son of a wouldnt die. Id bring it up. You say knock some here. Mr. President , how you feeling feeling. But they used the Vice President to say the oy job was to inquire as to the state, the president s health. Every morning. But at a very sweet experience, not commiserate with what youve done by any means, but of t, the president had former president had a form of parkinsons and so he couldnt hold a book. So hebook to him which was very this is and so i came up once and where he was in the narrative. Was 9en remembered defense and how cheney ended up in the cabinet right. So if john tower is confirmed cheney doesnt come to the cabinet, theres not a place on the leadership ladder for its like the wing of a butterfly but its the point where gin leadership and the only thing in 45 minutes of reading these chapters to George Herbert walkere like this, which is very inti reading i got to gingrich. And the only thing the old man said the whole time was, oh jesus, ni just thought of the whole thing right. But it was it was it was in many ways, i thinkt in many ways is the. Fullest manifestation of a bit of perot. Buchanan. Yeah, and gingrich well, as a matter of a boil. Stu yeah. No yeah. Which is. Brown and theres only one parachute sounds the beginning of a joke. So you are the embodiment of an ethos, a sense that however imperfect the experiment is, its our exper work. Yeah. As you just said in a way quotin president reagan, you if you get 80 if get 60 , you take 60 and you can come back and get other 40. Itbidisputatious country politics, the art of compromise that is not the world in which wedespite bidens best what president s managed to pass on on a level big important pieces of infrastructure, literal but when you went to the white house everyday for nixon, ford, reagan, you werent going into total correct. But today they are correct. So give us your and now whats the gergen theory of the case as to how that happened and what do you think we should do . Well, as i tried to say before, i think that there are a lot of the cross pressures2a receded once you got gingric