And i would like to thank Maggie Garnet who originally invited me just to visit Notre Dame. I am very, very fond of maggie. And her parents. Before i get to my prepared remarks, some years ago Justice Scalia told me that i should get out on the road and fly the flag. Well, he tended to be more of an extrovert than i am. I am quite content not to get out on the road. But when professor asked me too talk a bit about the declaration actually when i heard he wanted me too do that , my bride and i, virginia, we were rving in theg mountains of North Carolina tennessee. We noticed something there when i was thinking about and before i started preparing remarks. The large number of flags of people who w still believe in the ideal of this country and in an environment when there isis so much criticism, antagonism and actually people with disdain for the very same. It was very interesting to be with regular people for three weeks. [laughter] and that is one of the reasons we have been rving advocates for over two decades. We simply love to be a part of that. The other thing i might note about the declaration is some years ago i decided to drive with my Law Clerks to gettysburg as particular difficult terms youou could sense them getting a little. Irritated. But i wanted them to understand why we do what we do. It is not about us, its not about winning and losing it is about the entire country and the idea of this country. So our annual trip is to gettysburg for that purpose. This is pretty special to me, i must admit. Because i do not recycle speeches, these things are quite a bit ofk. Work. Its also trying to make sure you talk with us, to or at your audience. First of all let me thank maggie and professor in Notre Dame it is been quite some time since i have been here. They over stimulate thinking i have never led and interaction with students who really that learning so much myself. Like to thank maggie for my introduction that was far too generous and kind it is an honor to be here i alluded earlier i visited here a number of times and have a number of former clerks on the Law School faculty. Ive also been fortunate to have a number of your outstanding Law School graduates clerked for me. And they were outstanding indeed. And now i have one of your graduates as a colleague. And of course i knew justice of barrett as a Law Clerk for Justice Scalia some years ago. I pray she a long and fruitful tenure on the corporate had i seen this universe and when i apply to college theres no doubt i would have been here. [laughter] i think i have a few years i could go to college. [laughter] one of the universities revered from a far stated mission has been on wavering the pursuit of truth for its own sake. And its inspiration has been divine. Jesus christ as a sourcee of wisdom and whom all things can be brought to its completion. It should come as no surprise then, that Notre Dame attracts and produces so many talented scholarsar, and students. I am particularly grateful for the outstanding scholarship and graduates this university has produced. This is further demonstrated by the outstanding students as i alluded too and Professors Class that i have had a chance to interact with. From time to time, Justice Khalifa and i talked about how similar we were, yet so different. We tended to independently arrive at the same conclusion in so many cases. Yet he was from an educated family in the urban northeast while i was from an uneducated family from the deep south. Of course the condescending media elites accused me of being his flunky which bothered him much more than it bothered me. [laughter] i was used to bigotry. Unlike him i was used to bigotry and condescension, he was not. After Justice Scalia died, i mentioned our conversation to one of his sons, father polska alia. He immediately contributed our shared approach to our formation, we were both catholics, attended parochial schools, and despite the geographic separation, benefited from a common culture. This may seem somewhat anachronistic today. When so many of our common bonds have been severed. The differences are now much more pronounced since they are no longer temporize by what we all have in common. In my youth we believed in our countrys aspirational model. Despite the reality of unequal treatment. In this postmodern multicultural world, the emphasis is decidedly on the pleura bus. So much of my thinking about the constitution and the declaration of independence is influenced by this formation in the world of my youth, much the same can be said for the declaration itself. It was decidedly influenced by the shared culture and the attitudes of the Founding Generation. Keit was not a grand theory cooked up by a few men. I am sure you all are somewhat aware to my aversion to theories that have little over Milk Bearing on Daytoday Life past orr present. It could be the case that having grown up with people who did not have the luxury of contriving theories unrelated to daily life, i have become uncomfortable with the deductive approach to reasoning. No one in my life started by coming up with a theory first in seeing how it squared with the facts second period there was no time for that. Families, friends, Neighbors Subsistence depended on a more inductive experimental approach. Its based on experience and not onn theory. I believe this was a case for the Founding Generation as it was forioio me. I am a product of the state of georgia. The georgia of the 1950s and 60s. The world wheres i grew up was quite different from the world of today that is obvious in borders on all tourism. In the race obsessed world of the day, one would thinkor or could think that i am talking about or referring totally to raise. I mean much more than that. In those days of the 1950s there was of course pervasive segregation and racebased laws odds with principles of our country routinely referred to as dixiecrats. Despite that there is a deep and abiding love for our country. And a Firm Desire to have the rights and responsibilities of full citizenship. we held these ideals first and foremost because we were raised to know as children of god we were inherently equal and equally responsible for. Ur actions in my generation, one of the central aspects of our lives was religion and religious education. The single biggest Event N in my early life was going to live with my grandparents in 1955. My grandfather was a catholic convert and very devout. As a result my brother and i were sent to Saint Benedict Grammar school where i entered the second grade. Between my grandparents and my nuns, i was taught pedagogically and experientially to navigate through and survived the negativity of a segregated world without negating the good that there was. Or as my grandfather frequently said, without throwing the babyout with the bathwater. To this day i revere, admire and love my nuns. They were devout, courageous and principled women d. The first to teach me was sister Mary Delarosa, my second grade teacher. I was not catholic at the time and had only one or two memories of ever having gone to church before saint benedict. As a part of our Catechism Lesson Sister Mary Delarosa asked why did god create you . In unison our class of about 40 kids would answer loudly, reciting baltimore catechism, god created me to know, love and serve him in this life and to be happy with him in the next. Through many years of school and extensive readingsince then , i have yet to hear a better explanation of why we are here. It was the motivating truth of my childhood and remains as essential truths today. Because i am a child of god there was no force on this earth that can make me any less than a man of equal dignity at all worth. This was an a priori truth that was hrrepeatedly stated and echoed throughout the segregated world of my truth. This accepted truth reinforced our proper roles as equal citizens, not the distorted and reduced role offered us by jim crow. A role that is not unlike the reduced but apparently more palatable image of blacks is bandied about or assignedto us today. Weather deemed inferior by the crudest bigots or considered a victim by the most educated elites , being dismissed as anything other than inherently equal is still at bottom a reduction of our humanworth. My nuns at saint benedicts taught me that was a lie. And to paraphrase solzhenitsyn we were not to live by thatlie. In gods eyes we were inherently equal and that was that. This truth permeated our Home Life as well. Though less with a focus on right and more on what was required of us as children of god. My grandparents held fast to this belief. In gods eyes we were all equal. And because of that not only did we deserve to be treated equally, but we were also required to conduct ourselves as children of god. Hence we were to live our lives according to his word. My grandparents repeatedly stressed that because of our fallen nature, we had to earn our bread the sweat of our brow. There was no room to doubt this and even less for selfpity. My grandfather would let us know in no uncertain terms that there were to be no excuses though he knew as well as anyone that many were convenient and possibly legitimate. Ashe often said , old Man Cant sit this bed, i helped bury him. And it wasnt just my grandparents who were watching us. As they saw things on Judgment Day we would be o accountable for the use of our godgiven talents and opportunities. As i overheard one of the regions from my grandmothers baptist church say, god is a big eye god s. He was all seeing and allknowing. It moved us to walk the straight and narrow path. Admittedly much of this sounds anachronistic today. Perhaps we have grown to cosmopolitan or cynical for the theology of Beer Aminaret but wise people. My grandparents beliefs were not unique to that era. If anything, they were commonplace virtually universal. There was little that was different about us accept our catholicism which was quite unique. As i reflect on my life, the family that my grandparents provided for my brother and me was the fountainhead of the moral guidance in our lives. The catechism of thecatholic church puts it well. The family is the original cell of social life. It is the community in which from childhood one can learn moral values, begin to honor god and make good use of freedom. Family life is an initiation into the life and society. That was certainly the case in our house. During my childhood, those around us took this calling seriously. Our neighbors and those in our daily lives taught us that god loved us equally and that america stood for that same ideal even though it had failed tolive up to it. Despite this failure our christian duty was to still love our country even as we objected to its evidence shortcomings. This was more than a belief. It was a way of life. I live in a world of on exaggerated but pervasive patriotism. We were to be good, productive and loyalcitizens and that was that. This was our country and no one could deny us that inheritance. Nor were we to disinherit ourselves by rejecting our own country and our birthright of. Is in ship. At the beginning of each School Day we lined up by class, 2 x 2 and said the pledge of allegiance. And when the local Television Station signed offat night , an event which we rarely got to see there was a beautiful rendition of the national anthem and the poem high flight. Up up the long delirious Burning Bloom i stop the windswept heights with easy grace. Where neither Mark Nor Eagle fluid and while with silent lifting minds i try, the high and trespassed sanctity of space put out my hand and touched the face of god. No matter how much others might deny powerful inheritance, we were not to act as though we had been disinherited. And we were not to ask family because others have acted badly. I cannot say that i have always lived by this injunction. Unfortunately for too many years of my life, i lost sight of that lesson and saw it as a sign of weakness or cowardice. When Doctor Martin Luther King Jr. Was assassinated in 1968, i lost Sight And Sub come toan array of angry ideologies. And indeed, that was why i left the seminary in may 1968. I let others my monthly motions persuade me that my country and my godhad abandoned me. I became disoriented, disenchanted with my feet and my country and deeply and better. And perhaps worse of all, i let my family down. This was further exacerbated when my grandfather asked me to leave his house following my abandonment of my location. I was 19 years old. I was consumed by negativity, cynicism, animus and any other negative emotions you can hunter up. Sadly the destructive disposition that i exhibited then appears to be celebrated today. I left savannah for college at holy cross that following fall. Where i fell in quickly with radical ideologies such as black power. It was an era of disenchantment and deconstruction. The belief of my youth were subjected to the jaundiced eye of critical theories or perhaps more accurately cynical theories. What had given my Thlife Meaning and a sense of belonging that this country was my whole was jettisoned as oldfashioned and waited. It was considered preposterous to believe in such outmoded things. Having rejected my faith, my family and my country, i was searching for something to occupy me. It was easy and convenient d to fill that void with victimhood. Black man with extra drive. So many of my folks focus intently, excuse me. So many of us focus intently on our racial differences and grievances. Much like today im afraid. My grandfather a man of reality not theory often ask me in an exasperated tone. When you get your way and undermine this country then what. Other times he would simply walk away wondering out loud why he and my grandmother had made so many sacrifices for me. From time to time he would ominously forewarn me you just live long enough youll see. As usual, he was right. As i matured i began to see that the theories of my young Adulthood Work destructive and selfdefeating. After recognizing that i was the drift, what i realized more than anything else is that i needed to regain common Sense And Judgment in what i have jettisoned. I had rejected my country, my birthright as a citizen and i had nothing to show forit. Perhaps that is the ultimate destination of nihilistic ideologies. The wholesomeness of my childhood have been replaced with an emptiness, cynicism and despair. I was faced with a simple fact that there was no greater truth than what my nuns and grandparents had taught me. We are all children of god and rightful heirs to our Nations Legacy of civic equality. We were dutybound to live up to obligations of the full and equal citizenship to which we were entitled by birth. On the morning of april 16 1970, after returning from a bryant, i stood outside the chapel at holy cross and asked god to take out of my heart. I used Arthis Background to set the stage for my later and more in Depth Encounter with the declaration of independence in the mid1980s. At that time having run agencies and seeing how the federal government actually worked, i became deeply interested in the declaration ofindependence. I had hoped init would bring some clarity to the Colonists World Inwhich i found myself. Studying the founding however felt more like a return to familiar ground. The ground of my upbringing. The declaration captured what i have been taught to venerate as a child. Be but had cynically rejected as a young man. All men are created equal, and down with certain unalienable rights. So declaring the declaration of independence that god proposed to have discovered anything new. Its truths were selfevident. They were beyond dispute. They were opry ri in the society of my youth. They were a given. And as i have rediscovered, the godgiven principles of the declaration and our founding eventually returned to the Church H which had been teaching the same truths or millennia. That the declaration set forth selfevident truth was no accident. The founders quite frankly didnt have the time or the mandate to reinvent the wheel or the world. Between april and july 1776, the fervor for independence was palpable throughout the colonies. The colonies, their counties and towns and even trade associations were drafting their own declarations of independence. The late Historian Pauline Maier estimated there were 90 such declarations during this timeframe. Though not all were specifically denoted as such. These lesserknown declarations typically began with lists of grievances against the british empire. Among them were george iii rejection of the olive branch petition, great Britains Use of indian tribes and german mercenaries to wage war against the colonies and parliaments prohibitory act cutting off all trade between the colonies and anyone. The declarations then asserted that these uses were at odds with mans inalienable right to quote, a rhode Island Declaration or the first intervals of nature to quote a declaration from pennsylvania. Thus to maintain inviolate our liberties and to transmit them unimpaired to posterity as one Maryland Declaration put it. Separation from great britain was the only remaining course. When the continental whcongress convened in spring 1776, the colonists did notneed to be reminded of their grievances or the righteousness of their cause. There declarations made their depoints clear. Rather what they sought was leadership from a united congress. As another Maryland Declaration explained, national independence could be achieved only upon a close union and continental confederation. Yet when thomas jefferson arrived in philadelphia on may 14 1776, he was torn and arguably did not want to be there. The commonwealth of virginia was about to debate its Constitution And Jefferson had spent weeks copreparing a draft for the commonwealths consideration. But jefferson due to illness had been the last of the Virginia Delegation to arrive in philadelphia. Though he was chosen to stay behind in philadelphia while the other delegates headed back to virginia. When fellow Delegate George white left for williamsburg, jefferson tucked a copy of his Draft Constitution in whites back. Virginia cribbed from jeffersonsproposed Breed Preamble but not much else. In philadelphia, congress passed jefferson and his committee of five to prepare the first draft of the declaration of independence. Jefferson submitted the Committees Draft to congress a little more than two weeks after receiving theassignment. John adams later recounted that jefferson had drafted the document and only a couple of days. Jefferson was a busy man in june 1776. He oversaw multiple committees regarding debating affairs, drew up the rules and regulations for congressional debate and participated in other matters. Moreover, virginia was operating with a Skeleton Delegation providing little opportunity to spread the work around. Nevertheless, adams urged jefferson as busy as he was to pen the draft as it would be better for a more measured southern gentleman rather than a divisive independentminded new englander to take the lead in drafting and promoting the declaration. As time was of the essence, jefferson drew heavily from 2 sources the preamble of his draft of the Virginia Constitution and the recently enacted Virginia Declaration of rights. Jeffersons preamble included bl many of the grievances against King George ultimately appeared in the declaration. Likewise, the Virginia Declaration of rights already had declared many equally free and independent and endowed with the inherent rights including the right to pursue and obtain happiness and safety. So ultimately, jefferson did not propound a new political theory. Often, he wasnt even introducing new language. Rather, he reiterated what his fellow countrymen already believes. What they had already repeatedly set out in their own declarations. There was no time Forappetite Afor new theory of american independence. Even the words in the Virginia Document were not original. The american founding drew on centuries of history. Most notably the british declaration of rights of 1689. That declaration, like the british declarations of the Centuries Isprior had three basic parts. One, to raise grievances against the king. Another to declare the rights of englishmen and the third to fashion a government to protect thoserights. The american declaration of independence adopted the very samestructure. So doing the declaration made clear that life much like the English Declaration of rights , it was a constitutional document. That set out the foundation for government. It was a Clarion Call to new americans, your men of innate and civic equality who are now dutybound to defend your new country. Indeed, once published the declaration was distributed not only among the colonies but also to each commander of the continental army. What followed was arevolution and the founding of a nation. The later adoption of our constitution did not consign the declaration of independence to a prefatory status. To the contrary, the declaration remains central to and often preeminence in the american project. As Frederick Douglass later put it, the declaration of independence was the ring to the chain of our nations destiny. Deamericas fight against the most glaring contradiction, the peculiar institution of slavery be immediately what the Ring Vote to its latest testfrom the beginning , the founders understood that slavery violated the national call to be quality. James madison wrote in his notes during the constitutional convention where slaveryexists , the republican theory comes still more fallacious. Mars likewise condemned the nefarious institutions as the person of nheaven on the states where it prevailed. In fact, because many of the founding fathers were so deeply ashamed of slavery, they refused to include the Word Slave in the original constitution. Slavery now appears only once in the 13th amendment abolished it. Nevertheless, slavery persisted for eight decades after the ratification of the constitution. It was bought rock at the core of our countrys foundation. To some, that made america redeemable. William lloyd garrison, fiery abolitionist call the constitution a covenant with death and an agreement with hell. He refused to vote and call for the dissolution of the union. He would even burn copies of the constitution during his speeches. In his View America was a slaveholding nation and there could be no compromise with the evil of slavery. Others of the era however were unwilling to give up on the americanproject. Equal citizenship was a black Mans Birthright and to give up on america was conceived americas never equal citizens as thedeclaration of independence had promised. To demoralize free men and slaves in that way as Frederick Douglass argued served only to increase the hopelessness of their bond. The real goal that was repeatedly made clear was to convince americans that the country was on board but not lost. But many americans even those who did not live in the south or themselves owned slaves undermine douglasss message. Take for instance another douglas of that era. Stephen a douglas. The Illinois Senator counted and land of popular sovereignty. In his view, each territory had the right to determine whether to permit slavery within its borders. When confronted with the simple, clear and direct language of the declaration, declaring that all men were created equal, douglas responded in 1857 arguing that text did not mean what it said. To him, the declarations famous opening meant only that, british subjects on the continent were equal to british subjects born and residing in great britain. Thus he reduced a universal truth to a narrow national one. A large group of Illinois Citizens were dismayed by Douglass Attack on the declaration of independence. So they invited a young lawyer to respond to douglas in springfield illinois. That meant course was abraham lincoln. Aswho came perhaps the declarations greatest proponent in and advocate. Lincoln conceded that the declaration did not atassert the obvious untruth that all were then actually enjoying the quality nor yet that they were about to confer it immediately uponthem. But mans unequal station meant only that the dream was deferred. It remains to be obtained. As lincoln explained, the declaration proposed a standard maximum of the quality for a free society which should be familiar to all and revered by all. Constantly looked to, constantly labored for and even though never perfectly attained, constantly approximated. And thereby constantly spreading and deepening in its influence and augmenting the happiness and the value of life. To all people of all colors everywhere. To lincoln this promise of equality was not merely important to the nation. It was foundational. There was no american nation without the declaration of independence. A year after his debates in springfield, lincoln made this strikingly clear. He declared think nothing of me. Take no thought for the political faith of any man whomsoever, but come back to the truths that are in the declaration of independence. You may do anything with me you choose if you will but heed these sacred principles. You may not only defeat me for the senate but you may take me and put me to death. Unfortunately, President Lincoln would later pay the ultimateprice. So too would almost 700,000 americans. Decades of racial strife, but time and again the declaration of independence remained our national northstar or as Pauline Maier described it our american scripture. We did not surrender our inheritance as men and down by our creator with inalienable rights. Neither slavery nor jim crow defeated us. It is a slow arduous battle that we have yet to fail. Today about the state of our country. There are some would even cancel our founders. We are all aware of those are much like garrison, Americas Racist and irredeemable nation but there are many more of us i think who feel america is not so broken visits adrift at sea. As some of you come from my generation. Do you remember exciting for pledge of Allegiance Fourth of July Celebrations and shared belief that our nation was destined Foron Greatness . Others of you are younger, you lived in the twilight of death, or nostalgia for a World Humus or you dont remember at all. In all cases, we sense among us and american spirit we cannot quite capture, we sense amidst the noise and telling us that truth does not exist, but there is something true, transcendent, something solid, something that pulls us together rather than divides us. As i said, my wife and i for summer were inspired when we saw the parks, the people who still hold these values and still believe as they flew proudly so many flags ino the rv park. I lay no claim to the answer of the gospel but this i do know, for whatever it is worth, the declaration of independence has weathered every storm for 245 years. A birth a great nation, abolished the sin of slavery and endeavored to address its effects. While we have failed the declaration time and again and ideals of the declaration time and again, i know of no time when ideals have failed us. Ultimately the declaration because it articulates truth, it was not a grand philosophy like liver acts. The came from shared values unlike so many of more recent vintage. As lincoln taught us, the declaration reflects the noble understanding of the justice of the creator to his creatures. The belief that nothing stamped with the divine image and likeness was sent into the world to be degraded by its fellows. The declaration simply recounts what the Church Has taught for millennia and what we want universally accepted. All men are created and all men are created equal. I leave you with this thought. The declaration of independence may or may not be the american scripture as the book is entitled. Its more ideal that we as citizens bound to uphold and study. Du we may fall short but imperfections do not relieve us of our obligation. My grandparents lived out sacred location in a time of racial animus did so with pride, dignity and honor. May you find it within ourselves to emulate them. Lincoln put it best, its rather for us dedicated to the great task remaining before us that from these honored, we find Increasedin Devotion for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion, highly resolve they will not have died in vain. This nation under god shall pass a new birth of Freedom And Government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth. May we as a People Intonation endure and prosper, may god bless you and may god bless and preserve our great country. Thank you and go irish. E] [applause] [background noises] [background noises] [inaudible] [applause] [applause] [background noises] justice thomas, thank you. As we always do, we have time for questions from the audience. With covid its a little more difficult, we Cant Pass microphones so i believe Youou E given a card when you entered the building, there is a way to electronically submit questions, i have them in front of me and if you want to write your questions, you can do so on the card and will pass it this way and then collect them and go through as many questions as time allows. Ill relay questions to the justice and put your name on the question and relate your name as well. First question from david green, what, if any, threats do you see for the judicial system in the United States in the next ten to 20 years . In. One of the difficulties you have to deal with judges going beyond article three requires staying within limitations of the judges, theres always a temptation to go beyond we see with the development, Justice Scalia railed about it and when we do that, we began to venture in to the legislative executive branch and resolving things that are left to those branches where people have some input in the electoral process with those leaders are. Those of us in the federal judiciary lifetime appointments asking for it. I think a lot of the pressure on the Nomination And Selection processnd is because of that. Its thought to be the least dangerous and remaining have become the most dangerous and i think its problematic in the craziness during my confirmation was one of the results of but, absolutely about abortion. A lot of it is our own doing and the effects weve lost the capacity even as leaders to not allow others to manipulate our institutions when we dont get the outcomes we like when, for exampletc, President Roosevelt tried to pack the court, there was enough sense of what department and what separations of Power C meant to criticize h. Today you see almost no criticism or very little when you have those conversations. Part of it ispa the only doing f the judges in areas we should not have ventured into. A little bit about your own life and declaration, theres a few questions here. He left the catholic church when you are in seminary or after seminary at holy cross, what brought you back to the church . I think you do things that 19 that 25 years later, you undo and i will simply repeat what i said in class, if i have a friend like Maggie Garnet, never would have left the church likely and i just think when youre 19 and upset and you are angry, you do things that are not the best thing to do and my grandfather understood that but at 19 i did not. Like ive said, iran away from the church in 1968 and crawled back 25 years later and i also say to them straightforwardly phase a why did you come back . I said iran out of options. [laughter] it was a only way out in and im glad i did. I just regret that i ever left. This question is for margaret, if you could go back inld time would be federalist or anti federalist . [laughter] thats really interesting. [laughter] i have no, i think those were different times, id probably be closer to anti federalist. [applause] im not against the union but i do think theres limitations and i cantth say with jefferson but we see anti federalist were concerned about with the expansion with the effort to expand the power of the national government and doctrines of corporation and other theories and due process. The other branch going into areas somewhat from a limited enumeration. You begin to see in retrospect, i was reading a letter written by an Appeals Court Judge in virginia criticizing chief justice Marshalls Opinion and what was ironic was some of the points he was making and criticizing the decision pointing out how that would mean the government and federal government national government would expand and its already expanded into those areas and those were his list of terrible and now realities so i think you could object. Im not going to be too harsh in my criticism because it did wind up creating a country and its very flawed, like every human institution. Ive been on the court 30 years but its flawed. I will defend it because knowing all the disagreement, it works, it may work like a car with three wheels but it still works. [laughter] somehow you sort of hobble along and you recognize imperfections in the think we should be careful destroying our institutions because they dont give us what we want when we want it. I think we should really be careful and i was a what my grandfather said, after youve done that, now whats . Whats your next step . I cant be too forceful in my criticism. Good yeah. [laughter] i didnt go watch hamilton. [laughter] this question was submitted anonymously, how often do oral arguments change your mind . Never. [laughter] sort of like when i used to watch basketball a lot, they talk about theth big man like yu do your work early and then its over. You can try to block shaquille oneal 3 feet from the basket, good luck with that. [laughter] he did his work early and he received a pass. I think the real work is in threes, what in the written product. Occasionally, someone comes up, we had one guy many years ago when chief justice was there, we agree an Afternoon Case and we agree its an easy one and he gets up there and his own case if he sat down and said im done, he opened his mouth and lost reverse 90. [laughter] sometimes you shut up and sit there. Katie alexander, has there been times in your career when legal questions you must resolve conflict with your catholic faith . If so, how do you proceed . Not really, if it did where i fundamentally think its wrong, i just go a do something else. I have lived up to my else. It conflicts stronger with my personal opinion. My policy preferences. Job and y alone. [laughter] but there have been some [laughter] there have been some that broke my heart and its really hard and sometimes particularly early use it with seasoned members of the court and explain to them whatser wrong and when i first became a judge in 1990 my colleague Larry Silverman sat down with me, no judge ever tells you how to do their job. The only person who tells you are people who have never been judges. [laughter] he said to me im just going to give you a little bit of advice before you sit on the case ask yourself this question, what is my role in this case as a judge . Not as a citizen or catholic but its my role in the case because if you stay in that lane you as a citizen or personal preference would want to come out a different way a mouthful of tried to do. The other thing is i have four wonderful they are very bright like a students and they watch you. I tell them to watch me and its something my grandfather always told us. Watch me and do as i do not as i say so he didnt really mean that, dont do as i say part, i can to tell you that but i tell my clerks you watch me for a full year and my job is that you leave your with clean hands, clean hearts and clear consciences. Well never do anything improper and i encourage them every clerk works on every case so if you see something, your job is to let me know and we sit and talk about it but and 30 years or 30 terms i dont think a single clerk will ever tell you he said anything other than our job. What is the most significant misconception you think the american public holds about the court . Maccabee a long list. [laughter] i dont blame them, one reason i like ive got to tell you one day, eiko to these Truck Stops because i have a bus and a 30yearold bus, to so im in the Truck Stop, a pilot Truck Stop because you like to ask act like youre a big trucker. [laughter] you put on diesel clubs kick the tires, still Cant Figure out what that does but youve got to act professional so you take on your you and you go and pay 100 gallons of diesel fuel. So you go in and you are paying so on the way and we were in pennsylvania or maybe new york passed a black gentleman was a driver and said to me, are you that judge . [laughter] it literally was one l of my favorite moments and he sent i heard you are a big Rig Man but i didnt think i government you. All the accolades you can get an life, you are a big Rig Man like me and i started kicking the tires then. [laughter] so what did you ask me . [laughter] i forgot what you asked me how. [laughter] was as an answer . I think they think that we make policy. I think the media makes it souns ashough theyre just always going right to your personal preference so if they think youre Antiabortion Or Something personally, they think thats the way you always come out for this or for that currently think you become like a politician and thats a problem, youre going to jeopardize any faith in the legal institutions. I think the media and interest groups, i give you an Example Ol Game this Weekend And Nebraska is playing oklahoma. [laughter] you all have one, two . Any rate, lets say this weekend if a referee makes a call Notre Dame winds, people would say it was a referee, thats what you do as a fan but if they make the same call in works against Notre Dame, oh my goodness. Cant even see. Come on, anybody could have seen this. We are not acting as judges, we want a particular outcome so we look at Thehe Outcome and it colors what we think the quality of the referee was so if it was for us, is excellence referee, if not, it was horrible. Thats not what you can do when looking at cases but its precisely in the article about a big case and thats precisely what you have. The outcome is what i want to to be, excellent work. Another marbury versus Madison Plaintiff against what youre for, its all over again, its horrible. Thats just the way it works but i think its wrong. If you go back and look at new york times articles in the 30s and 40s on supreme court cases, but few ive read are excellent because they summarize the case and talk about the argument and summarize the holding and there may be a short paragraph on the implications. Now put that sidebyside is what you get to and i think thats problematic and encourages preconceptions, its just personalrt preference. This might be related, a student follow. Core tenet of regionalism is a hesitancy to legitimize my Roommate Constitution claiming the constitution should be amended if not revised by the courts. What is your response for activism who say the difficulty of the Amendment Process make the unattainable during this age of partisan division . How many times has the competition been amended . So its not unattainable so he with the political climate that would do things that i mentioned before as far as leadership but i dont think its unattainable. Changing the age of the Voting Age was intended to be difficult so youre not amending it every few minutes like a Statue Or Something so its difficult but obviously not impossible or we do not have amendments. So i dont buy that argument and even if that were the case, you lose your constitution if judges can amended. If what you say by the argument as you accept amendmes by nine members of the supreme court. Thats really outside of our process and by definition its illegitimate and the criticism of Justice Scalia even if you want someone else to do it to substitute, dont let us do it. I give an example, we have no idea half the time of whats going on in pop culture. I have no idea. People start talking about rap artists, i have no idea who they are, i dont listen to that kind of music and we are not in touch, it is the public, youve heard the term marble palace, its close as you could get. I go up to my office and go down to the basement and get in the car and come home. We dont meet with constituents, we dont take polls, we dont visit with local areas and see what our constituents feel, we dont take the pulse of community, we are supposed be outside of that. We are incapable of doing that. The next question, no name but it relates to what you said, if you think its better if mark regular americans but supreme court opinions and recognize justicesr . Today travel through Flyover Country . I love Flyover Country. [laughter] weve been motor homey almost 22 years and we have done 42 states. I love Flyover Country. My wife said it looks fine to me. Weve been in Walmart Parking lots, wee stayed flying js pilot, rv parks in virtually all 42 states we find to you go to parks with 50 others, popups, you meet people on motorcycles, its not a problem until they recognize you. When they recognize you, it messes everything up but less the world im from. I love that world and its interesting when you listen about our country and thats why i mentioned the flag in tennessee and North Carolina in the mountains. They have a different perspective and its interesting to see how they react to these sorts ofer things. Do i think about regular people adding opinions . That leads me to the clerks i higher. E. We write i think the regular people have been disenfranchised. We write opinions almost like hieroglyphics. Negative fragments and levels of generality and a little latin sprinkling. [laughter] this editing and the approach so i told my clerks and out and with this, its not genius to put a 2dollar idea in the 20 hundreds, its genius but 20dollar idea enter 2 without losing any meaning to the audience we fight for our fellow citizens, not just legal community but fellow citizens so we were at gettysburg and the guy who was overweight, im not against overweight people. [laughter] so he runs up and hes out and he says im not a lawyer but i want you to sign this for me, a copy of one of my opinions and he said i want you to sign this and make it understandable by a regular citizen. I said you made me feel good like a regular citizen and why are you reading this opinion . He said he looks at gettysburg and waved Hisis Arm and thats what this is all about. [laughter] we fought the civil war. [laughter] thats to say i really like the fact that regular people find the work accessible and thats what we should do. I higher clerks with a regular background, hence my trip to tennessee and North Carolina because i wound up having so many clerks from thatle Region D None of them even knew each other and they come from a regular background. They go to schools like last year i had no clerk that went, they went to the university of Southh Carolina im trying to think of where the kids come and go so fast. University of minnesota but every single one went to a State School and they went on scholarship and then they go on to other schools but thats what i like because they have the Ability And Capacity to write in normal english and common Sense Judgment so that is important. A couple more, this Iss M from any words of wisdom for young aspiring lawyers aspiring to do good work while watching the path of sanctity . Well, im a total failure so [laughter] i think for me, i hate to say this butei my favorite prayer is of humility, its just i have it on my wall in my office so im a big believer in saying i cant and having been humbled, i have every reason to be humble. I think you start with that and being honest with yourself about what you know or dont know and also not lose sight of whats good in people. Weve gotten to where in society where we are really good at finding something that separates us from others and when i was the only black kid in seminary in the mid 60s, to my knowledge the only black kid in a white school, i could be wrong but i didnt know of any others and every time i walked intook a room, ive had to look for something ive had in common and thats the way we grew up with, or do we have in common with the other person . Now we just seemed like we keep dividing,ng subdividing, subcategories of differences. I think you look for the good in people even if others around you even if they dont do it in a proper way to still try to and you be honeste about learning, s i said and i meant it, i wish i had a friend and you ask yourself, do i help make my friends better or worse . Thats a hard one and it put a load on you but i struggle. I go to mass and try to do things and try to do the right thing but it starts with humility and i truly believe that. To questions, or you come back . [laughter] oh yeah, well [applause] i will, i have to tell you i spend very little time on University Campus and thats probably not good. When i was in college, the university was where you exchange ideas like being here with a minor outburst. Its like being here today, the universitiesat work and you thought about things and debated things and learned how to engage in disagree without being a jerk. You learn how to grow and i dont know whether or not thats totally the case but i can tell you ive had that positive kind of experience here and every time ive beenev here and i have to tell you a lot of it were the kids in your class and thats their business. When i am interested in, letting them and form their own decisions. So the answer is, yes, i will plus i have my kids. [laughter] i do havee to come back. [laughter] [applause] ill tell you, if ive seen Notre Dame, theres no way i would have signed everything i need to sign when i left campus. [laughter] maybe in january if we have a different opinion. [laughter] i drove my bus on this campus years ago, i parked at the Police Station and we went to the grotto which pretty much ended and going to chapel pretty much did it for me. Last question, dont mess this one up. [laughter] whats the score of Saturdays Game . [laughter] this is going to say im horrible but thats going to be a tough game so i think you win by at least seven but i think its going to be a tough game. Purdue, they are good offensively i think and i dont watch as much College Football as i used to, i watch a lot of volleyball and you all have a decent Volleyball Team but nebraska we lost two games and thats really bad but if youve not been to womens volleyball, you are missing a treat, its unbelievable. Its fast, athletic and a good game. If s last question, i do want to say goodbye. I want to thank you all, thank you for being the Way Id expect Notre Dame students and faculty and friends to be and the way it used to be in all universities. Ive said positive things about Notre Dame and you are exhibit eight why thats true. [applause] see Spence Washington Journal everyday taking your calls live on the air on the news of the day and talking about policy issues that impact you. Tuesday morning, Kaiser Health News julie discussing provision of the 3. 5 trillion Budget Reconciliation Package to allow medicare to negotiate the cost of prescription drugs then Washington Post Reporter Maria on the biden administrations immigration and border policy. What see Spence Washington Journal with Tuesday Morning at 7 00 a. M. Tuesday