Anniversary of the election of Jeannette Rankin to congress, the first woman ever elected to congress. To start off today, when you were young did you have any Role Models . When i was young i never thought about politics. It was not something from the standpoint of what youre talking about, no. Really, my Mom And Dad were the only people i looked up to some teachers and whatnot. I had no political aspirations i was not involved in any way. When you were young what did you think it would be when you grew up . I thought i would be a teacher. I started out to do that. I actually went to college for a Year End then my Mom And Dad set me down because i had three younger brothers. They said we really cannot afford to send you to school. Its more important your brothers get the education because youll just grow up and get married. At that time, many, many years ago you did not have the advantages you have today you could get grants, scholarships such a small Country School a small town you did not have the counseling you do today is that anybody can do it you can do it on your own. I ended up going to work on the town where i lived. Has you first become interested in politics . I did not become interested in politics until we had a problem with the city. We are trying to buy a piece of land in the redevelopment area, quite frankly we went ahead and made the bid on it like you are supposed to do the End Result was we were the highest bidder and they did say were going to get it but they had to be approved by City Council. And so i heard through the grapevine another councilmember one to have his buddy get it to build apartments theyre going to do a Zoning Thing this is a better use than what we wanted to build. Think totally ignorant i did not i had to sign up to speak i didnt know anything pronounce the City Council meeting and finally they may or call them a because i knew him from business or would not i would not of been able to speak. He said give something to say is that i sure do. Kinda gave him a piece of my mind. I simply play fair and square. I thought weve got the land but maybe look at how government has an effect on your life. Before that i had not really thought of it. Did you have any mentors early on when you first became involved in politics . Not really i was a grassroots volunteer. I was the norm of the people who run for political office. I had a friend who is active in the party, the republican party. He said why dont you run . And so my husband and kids encouragement. I had no money, no organization, no experience, nothing just an interest in being a public servant. Iran and lost by only 200 votes against the incumbents. That gave me courage the next two years to run again. Then i was elected to City Council. I say i got into politics by the backdoor. Not the usual Route Everybody else takes. He also served as mayor of charlotte. I did, i did but. Specifically in that regard, what about that experience helped you when you decided to make the transition to congress . Well, being a mayor at the time i thought was a difficult job. I was the first female mayor and the first of outside the system. Again i was a grassroots volunteer. At that time charlotte was still fairly small theres a group of people got together every time they decided he was going to run for mayor. Its pretty much cut and dried. I was not part of the plan. Iran against a very popular incumbent at the time. And i thought it really was a difficult any sense they used to write articles about what i wore and how long my hair was and all this kind of thing. Until finally one day i said hey, you never write an article about my opponent he is got on a Navy Suit and a blue tie and what ever and there was dead silence it was the editor of the paper. He said well, you are right. They finally stopped that. It was that thing all the time if i did something, everybody was critical in a different way than they are today. This was kind of a first for the city. And so i learned kind of the hard way. But once they realized i was serious, had an agenda to really accomplish something after i was elected i was taken seriously. People and were known that work together things i accomplished as mayor because lots of people came to help. I was like a vehicle or a vessel all this happened through. It was a great experience because first of all he gave me a grounding in the political process. At that time i had no plans to run for further office. I term limited myself. So, when i look back on it, it was really a good time and it was easier than serving in congress. [laughter] 1992 you decided to run the republican primary for u. S. Senate seat. Why did you decide to make that transition . Were you recruited by anyone to do that . Is interesting. That was a bad decision on my part. I had spent a lot of time appear. When i was mayor i was active in the mayors conference. I did a lot of testifying on issues before congress. It seems like a natural progression to do that, big mistake. Again i did not have a lot of money. I was running against a selffunded millionaire who poured everything he could into the race. Including all this underground stuff that was a very nasty bad experience that was really hard on my family. At that point i decided i was not going to run again. So i drove for the house eat two years later . Interesting, i really did not plan on doing it. People at this point started calling me and asking me too run. I did not want to because of the bad experience. Finally i said to them look, my negatives have got to be in the basement. There is no way i can be elected dog catcher. Kept on i found the syndicate you raise the money to a pole and find out price of the pole came back and my negatives werent bad. My positives were very good. Its like okay what do i do . As a family we sat down and talked about and decided if we could give up years of our life to try to make a difference for her grandkids very frankly. We would do it. That is how iran, never intending to serve as long as i did play that not part of the Game Plan either. Once you get here, everything moves so slowly and it takes shoot a wild to accomplish what you want to do. So you go from year to Year End all of a sudden its ten years and you do not even realize it. I was a very blessed to have the job. Im very thankful i had the experience and was able to serve the way i did. But im also glad now to be gone. [laughter] whether any key moments in that first House Campaign that stand out for you . Any major turning points . Again i was the fifth person in the race. All of the political money had been committed to the other four candidates. That was a challenging and itself. And then one of the candidates who was supposedly leading, had an experience where he was actually accused of and later they said he lied on his resume. And so he kind of dropped out. Anyway i ended up winning. [laughter] was Gender And Issue it all in that campaign . In that campaign it was not. Gender had been an issue before it was an issue when iran for City Council when i was a mayor. In the congressional race really wasnt. After i got here, gender really was not an issue either in some ways i came in with a class and knew it was a speaker he was very good about promoting women. He pushed us out front weather is with the press, committees, he was very open to giving women as shops. Im being a part of the process in a way that sometimes they had not been in the past. And did you have the support of any Womens Group in your campaign either local or national . Not really. Because i am a republican and most Womens Group do not support republicans interestingly enough i happen to be a conservative republican which makes it different too. So it supported republican women in groups like that. Of course womens friends and organizations, business organizations in that type of thing. But really the typical Womens Group per se. Its pretty rare they support a conservative republican. It was fun raising an issue in the first campaign for you . Fundraising was very difficult. Again theres only certain people who give politically. The money had been committed. Its friends and others i know who stepped up to the plate to help me in that campaign so i could get my message out. There were some issues we dealt with that also helped. It was not easy by any stretch. But i ended up here. I believe it was where i was supposed to be at the time for. For people outside of North Carolina, can you describe your district geographically and demographically . The district changed a lot. We had redistricting challenges what North Carolina is going through again today with their congressional guide for different districts will i was in congress. But basically, the base of the district has always been charlotte and the surrounding areas. In the counties around charlotte change. Sometimes they were to the West And North and i had eastern counties in southern counties. Really there is no Rhyme Or Reason it was whatever the legislation decided to do in their redistricting. Its a very compact district because the population. I was very fortunate i could get from my house living in charlotte to any place in my district in an hour compared to some people who go hours and hours just to cover their district. Again that was very fortunate and made it easier to serve as well. What about the constituent you had how were they represented . Basically at that time i would say it was a Split District but people voted republican on a national level. At that time the republicans were in charge of the city. We had had republican mayors for a long time. It is split completely now charlotte is a democrat city. I think there are two members on City Council. And, until this year there had not been a wonderful lunch and another woman to run for mayor which is kind of unusual in the city of that size. Wanted things have been asking interviewees and we have an image for you of a Campaign Button which appears in the house collection. We are curious is there any particular story attached to that Campaign Button or personal memory . No not really. We just always use my name as sue was something easy for people to remember. We did our advertising, we just always did sue and that is who i am. I told people i was sue before i got elected. If im elected ill be sue and office and i will be sue when i leave. And if im not i dont deserve to be here. I think thats one of the problems with the Office Today especially on the federal level is people get up here and forget who they are prethey forget their roots and what they become is a politician. They get into the system and they are not real people anymore and they do not live in a real world. This is a bubble up here. Unless you have people around you that can ground jew, everybody saying how wonderful you are, your staff idolizes you. If you dont have a grounding and a level head, it can go to your head you end up being an egotistical whatever. And that bothers me. Because today it seems like people get into politics for political reasons. They wanted to be a congressman since there were ten years old or something. They dont get into politics for public service. If you look at the great statesman we used to have in congress, think about it. There arent many statesmen left because it is all political. If republicans against democrats. And supporting a party instead of trying to work together. Thats one of the reasons i got so frustrated and decided to leave. I will give you an example we had women who admit for quite some time informally for dinner, no politics just get together, laugh, have a glass of wine and have a good time democrats, republicans always. And it started to kind of die out. And so right before i left and went to one of my democrat friends whod been involved in said lets get people together again before the end of the session. She said great idea. Is it all get nine you get nine no one who would not anybody but we would have a group. So a week before i had not heard anything from her. I went over and said to her, how many people do you have . She said its just me. She said it is so divisive right now that nobody wants to do this. All that did was solidify for me i made the right decision to leave. But it made me very, very sad. I always try to work behind the scenes is not an out front person. But working behind the scenes, talking to people and pulling people together to get something done and make a Bill Move because she could get enough people on both sides of the aisle, that just does not happen anymore. I hear that at Home Nobody wants to work together. Its kind of like its based on power. Whoever has the power wants to keep it whoever doesnt have it wants to get it. And so instead of working together to make the country move forward youve got a standoff which has been for quite a few years now. And consequently, that is why you see the anger you do out there they say nobody gets anything done. Its obvious why. Politics is always been about compromise. People hate that word but its always been about compromise. Look back over the years you are a historian you know how it used to work. Let work that way early on when i was here. So gradually we are seeing the shift. I dont think its healthy for the country because the people of the ones that suffer. The effects here on the hill are selfevident. What you think has contributed to that shift over the course of your career . I thought about it a lot. You wonder why people do not really get along like they used to. I think a lot of this started when you got younger and younger members being elected to congress and they did not want to come to washington or move their family to washington. And so you would go home every weekend. I was one of those that went home every weekend. The first couple years my husband was here he hates washington. He left in 65 only never to return. [laughter] little did he know. But anyway, im sorry i lost my train of thought. It was just a question of why that change . You mentioned families being here. Think the change took place and people started going home instead of living in washington for staying here for periods of time there have their families at home. So every weekend you go home. Consequently your kids did not go to school together, you did not socialize together. And at that time we were working nights. 10 00 p. M. At night if i got home at 10 00 p. M. It was an early night. It was just all the time. You did not have that opportunity to have a normal life with a family and get to know people one on one. Think that helped to contribute. Congress is a lot younger now than maybe its ever been im not sure you would know. When you get that, most people will do the same thing they want their wife to have a Support System at home with family and friends or whatever. And not to be alone because you were gone so much. Its always been a dilemma for everyone. If you move your family here on weakens you go home with her doing her job right to take care of your district. And then if you are home, your family is at home on weekends its also you go home and work but at least you can see them and be with them. There is no easy answer. I dont of that there ever has been. But years ago because of no airconditioned may be an other things, people stayed in washington or left for the summer or whatever. It was totally different. They did establish those relationships. The women got to know one another and of course the men would work together, they would go to school to play ball together parade there was a camaraderie there. Its pretty hard to get up on the floor and called him a you know what because you do respect the person as a person. And that is what is missing today. You do not have that same level of respect in my opinion that we used to have in congress. Another big change this is the beginning of your House Career when republicans took control the house for the first time this was back in 1995, what do you remember about the atmosphere during this first few months . It was wild. I remember it was after the it was a hectic election. After the election my husband and i were going to go to the beach for a few days and get away for a break. Wed just gotten to the beach, literally walked into the condo, put the bags out and the phone rang, he said i want you to be on the Transition Team so i thought what does that entail . He said were going to handle the transition, anyway i said window i start and he said tomorrow i want you here right away. [laughter] it was literally picked up the bags my husband took me to the nearest airport i flew to washington he flew home to charlotte. That was the beginning of the inauguration into congress i guess. And so it was interesting and i was really glad to be a part of that process because there were rooms in the capitol, literally republicans had not been in and for years and not saying that to criticize democrats would probe the same way if it was another way. We see this, there is a lot of that type of thing. But also we set down in the very beginning and said how do you want to handle this and we all said we wanted to be fair. Some of the members that have been there for a while so dhec with that were going to treat them the way they treated us. He was very good about this he said no we are going to be fair. We are going to treat people the way we wanted to be treated. So when they did the divisions of the committees, they were dividing up, deciding on Office Space and who is going to do what and all of that, they really were fair. I always remember that because the older guys complained like crazy that did not exist before. And so we tried to set a tone that way. Because this was a 100 day agenda, it was utterly intense. We are told newton if you ever did this we will kill you because we were all sick, we were tired, everyone was getting angry, obviously on edge because it was like a march. It accomplished i guess what he wanted to accomplish at the time, which was good. But we were all glad when it was over. I just remembered there was no orientation for how you do things. You just jumped in and did it. We started on the floor right away is not a slow beginning like some years you have you have time to get organized. We didnt have time to get organized at all. We got offices we were wandering the halls picking furniture literally out of the hall to find some thing to put in our offices. [laughter] under this one Piece Wheat took and put in my office the next day he came knocking on the door and say you cant have that i wanted. And so they took it was a senior member. It is that kind of thing. There was really a quiet chaos in the sense, people were not at each others throats or anything. It was really different in the way all of that happen compared to the way a normal year goes for it is organized. Was such a large Freshman Class more than 70 of you. You are part of the group about liaison between the leadership on the Freshman Class. How did you stand out so quickly among that class . Well i didnt think i did. I did not run for anything. Some of the guys from the class came to me and said we want you to run for this, i didnt want to that is not climate introvert. I am not one to want to step out there and do that. I always tried to be a leader but quietly by bringing people together as i said before. Anyway they said we would like you to run. There is somebody else running they did not feel would be good to get the job frankly there were several people running at the time. And so i said you can put my name and but im not going to do anything. Not campaign for them not going to do anything and thats the way it started. Really i had no intentions of wanting to do any of that. But then they ended up having may be a liaison along with David Mcintosh on the Mail Side there were two of us. It was a great experience because we were able to communicate with the leadership about our class. It was so large, severed buddy was pretty much together. It was a good opportunity to have that voice at the table because it was totally different than the other voices that have been at the table before. There is a lot of backandforth, giveandtake and those Leadership Meetings. It was an interesting, interesting experience i was very glad to have the job. Wars on the challenges you face big in that position . The challenges were trying to communicate to leadership exactly what the members of the class wanted to see done. A lot of times there were people in the class it would say no, you are not doing it right. You are not strong enough, you are not communicating. It was always that giveandtake but basically theyre very supportive. We had a good Group Roger was a classic president and is now in the senate. We had good people and basically everyone was supportive of one another. It was a cohesive class because were thrown together the way we were so quickly. And there were a lot of women, which wasnt nice. Of course that has dwindled over time dramatically. In that class you are one of eight new republican women sworn into congress. We are curious to know, sue kelly, barbara, did a special bond emerged among that group of you who were elected . Yes very much so. We became very close friends, all of us and stayed close friends for years. Now helen left fairly early if i remember correctly, barbara cuban was here until the mid to thousands, sue kelly got defeated which is really a shame and hard on her and she took it very hard i felt so badly for her, we always did but she always had tough races in her district. It was one of those districts that can change easily. But the good thing was, we were all different but it was complementary because we would meet, talk things through, get the opinion of one another. I learned about western issues from barbara cuban and hell and i am not from that west i knew nothing about the west. They would educate us on why they were doing these bills are specific things like water or whatever it may be. And so we learned a lot that way. And the same with us being on the east coast. They were not familiar with bats. So that sharing we did as women was very helpful. But the other thing we learned early on as women as we are pretty much all alike. One time we were together and some of the older women whod been here before Nancy Johnson, some of the others, we were talking and i said something one of a set of got to go and the other and said you do that too . Somebody else if you do that too . What we realize, we checked our Work Home and went home at Night And Work and the guys went out and had a good time, not all of them but that is really what happened. They would play golf or sometimes in the afternoon they go to a matinee. Were working all the time. We realized as women that was the difference. And its probably still true today. I think because there is always been, you have to work harder, try harder to be accepted in a mans world as a woman. I think there is a lot of that does not really exist Today But Kind of a built in to you if you came along through all of those years of having to do that. I will never forget, this is not congress but when we were in business my husband and i were in business together. We had a new client, my husband said sue will come meet with you to go over this, whatever. He said oh no i do not meet with women. And so my husband said either you meet with sue or we dont work together. End result was i met with him, he understood i knew what i was talking about. He accepted me and we became great friends. This is been this block out there think some of it still exists. I see some of it in the corporate world even today, it does exist. There is this feeling you go so far in areas you dont go any further as a woman. That is been kind of sad especially in politics with president s. There have not been that many who have run. Recently am talking about, elizabeth dole, trying to think who else it is hard for a for a republican woman to be accepted in the president ial field, i think and kind of watching it, i dont know. We hope someday thats going to change. The other thing that missing is women dont run. A lot of females wont take the risk. It is taking a risk to put yourself out there and fail. And so we need ten to a better job of developing Farm Teams of women who are willing to put themselves out in front and run. And i think the republicans of always in a bad job of that. I think the republicans to a much better job of nurturing and bringing up the Farm Team than republicans do quite honestly. Ive always wondered why more women dont run. Then they stop and think about the effective Look Look at what you have to go through and how negative it is today. I think i would not run today if i had to go through, knowing what you might face with all the junk they throw at you, true or not spirit it does not have to be true. Ive had some rough campaigns. But really, i think it because it is a negative atmosphere, a woman just say ill raise my kids, and do my job and what ever it is at and not volunteer. But you know, one thing women bring to the process, is a willingness to work together. And i think it is because we raise our kids to get along, not fight, we try to have harmony in the home, whatever it may be in that sense. Guys are raised to be confrontational. So its like this you know. I think its harder for a guy to say okay, how can we work on this because they feel theyre giving up something compared to the weight we look at it like how can you bring the people together . Quite frankly the way i used to deal with guys, theres some moms little boy, they get up in the morning but their pants on the same way i do, one leg at a time, they are no different. That was kind of my psychological thing to deal with guys who wanted to boarded over women for whatever reason. Clicks about the house when he first came where the parts of the institution he found it hard to enter as a woman . Did you have to integrate into any parts of the institution . Let me tell you two things. One we learned very quickly what seat you did not sit in because some of the guys had certain seats they had forever and you never sat in that seat. That was a nono big time. The other thing only got here women could not wear slacks you had to wear skirts. So a lot of us did not like that. We were raised were pantsuits or slacks. We went to leadership and said can we start to wear slacks and the answer was no whoevers in charge of that in the house. And so some of us decided were going to start wearing slacks on the floor and see what they do. Anyway we did that for a while. Finally they relented at. [laughter] and said we could work slacks were pantsuits on the floor. It was a matter of forcing the issue. I used to sit there and the women who do the recording were not allowed too or pants or slacks they had to wear dresses. They would wear dresses theyre kind of short weeks the guy sitting there looking at them. So i went again to leadership and said why arent they allowed too or slacks . Its always been the rule. Anyway it took about three years. We got the women the right to or slacks on the floor instead of wearing the dresses. It was that kind of thing. It was a challenging fight to get done. But it was part of the institution, thats the way women were you did not wear slacks. You are the first republican elected from North Carolina in one of the handful of republican women that represented a southern district. Do you feel that distinction was important and didnt give you a special role to play while you were in congress . Know, whatever i did in politics i was a Role Model for other people, for other women in particular tried to mentor other women. I never looked at myself as being the first of something or the only one. I always looked at myself as being capable and people should accept me for my capabilities and what i can do not the fact that i was a woman per se. So i guess maybe i have looked at it differently. Mentoring was a very important. It still is important. Its interesting because you never know what kind of effect youre going to have on somebody. I still have women who come to me today and thanked me for such and such that happened 20 years ago which kind of blows my mind. I would not remember but it was some little thing generally are something you did to help them, a letter you wrote for them, a Reference Something you did that made a difference in their life for help them to achieve something they were trying to achieve and thats a good feeling when you can do that type of thing and be a mentor to others. I was look at my office that way, my office is a Training Ground for both men and women. I would tell them, if you have an opportunity to move up and take another job thats going to better you, take it. So i tried to encourage them to find their wings and to fly, simply because this is a place where you have to keep moving as a Staff Person are you are stuck in a job forever in the same place. We did not have much turnover in my office. I was very blessed to have a stable staff. My District Staff was with me the whole time. And up here i had really good people who were very loyal and stable without a lot of turnover. But, that type of the Mentoring Lot of women do not do that. Women do not really like women do you ever notice that . On occasion. Left message. Insult women do not reach out and help in the same way sometimes a guy will. When you do things together as a guy and play golf, youre in the gym, whatever it may be this kind of a come lottery that builds there and people help one another. But women, part of it may be theres a lot of women you had to fight to get where you were. And so thats what you are busy doing. I think theres still a lack of mentoring among women. Not just in politics but in general and its kind of sad. Somebody else paved the way for me i certainly did not do it. I was the first in a couple of Things Somebody else in the national scene made it possible for Women Today. I cant believe that long ago she was able to get elected to congress that is phenomenal we talk about that type of thing a Lot Faith how in the world did she get elected when she was definitely in a mans world for. Before women have the right to vote nationally. Thats exactly right. Very strange she obviously was a wellrespected person. I again going back to being a person not a woman. You mentioned mentoring and how important that is. Is there anyone who offered you advice when you first came what kind of advice did they give you . Some of the older women members were wonderful to us. Nancy johnson hope youre going to talk to nancy. Nancy is just a deer. She really pave the way for a lot of us. I will never forget one of the first things she told me as this is the loneliest place in the world for a woman. And she was right, its a very lonely place. Hear that phrase its lonely at the top but it really is a lonely place for women. Again go back to the same thing guys can play golf and go to the gym not women can go to the gym to dont get me wrong. Its just not the same. Theres a camaraderie thats been built up and accepted thats was going to happen where women have to build their own so it is a different situation. Nancy was very good to all of this, tilly was a dear, Jennifer Dunn, jennifer was a very good mentor to so many people. They would sit down and talk to us about some of the history of things, how the place worked, how you got things done. It was personally friends. That was important. Barbara was a no other one very good about reaching out and helping all of us in various ways. They would always offer to come Help Campaign if they needed to do that or whatever. It was more of the day today. You could go to them if you had a question about how can i work this bill through whatever it may be . They could tell you from experience what they had done which almost always was very, very helpful. So, there was a lot of that back then. Today i do not know. Before i left it did not really seen the same. It was hard just getting women together. Everybody is so busy though, i dont even if you notice that. Seems like life is a lot more hectic and busier than it used to be. Technology was supposed to change up and think its made it worse. [laughter] your part of a group called Breakfast Club. [laughter] or the primary goals of that group . I forgot about that. Was not an official Breakfast Club is a group of as a group of eight of us or so give a little privacy and became people would see us Meeting And Thinking we were plotting. So then it became kind of a fun thing. He would come by and say all right what you all up to now . Because we were meeting for breakfast. But we did it on a regular basis. A lot of us came good friend tom coburn, trying to think of some of the others, David Mcintosh, some people were very involved in our Freshman Class. And so the Breakfast Club was named by others, not by us but it kind of got a life of its own after that. We would decide things that could be done and we would take them to the full Class And Talk to them about it. Whether they would fly or not. A lot of us stayed friends for years or still friends. You mentioned you act as a liaison by 1997 there fair number of people in the party who were not happy with speaker gingrich. How did that make it difficult . It was hard. Newt was very good at being a general in the war. He got us here. Not me so much i pretty much ran on my own. But he helped a lot of people to be elected to congress for the first time. He was very good at that. But newt had a very difficult time leaving. [laughter] knew it would killing for saying this. [laughter] but it was like we would late plate to be the last one into see him at night because whoever was in the last one and that is what he would do it. [laughter] he would change his mind. Its frustrating for those of us in leadership and we have a Leadership Meeting on whatever day before we left. We would go home, turn on the tv and there is newt. We had decided and leadership were going to a, b, c here is newt saying were doing x, y, z. And so this is the problem all the time. He is a wonderful idea man. He is full of ideas. But that got him in trouble because he would change his mind. It got to be very frustrating very frankly and he knew it. Obviously he knew it. That is why the effort started to have him not be speaker anymore because it was very difficult. He was not leading in the way he should have been leading. It was hard on the other members of leadership two. What was your role in that communicating with the freshman members, the newer members . I was very involved in all of that. It was challenging. You know, a lot of us felt very strongly about what was going on, change needed to happen. Some of the others it didnt. There is always an undercurrent of trying to do things the right way without it being ended up was called a coup. It is really not planned as a coup, that was not at all what it was. It was a lot of people from different levels in congress who were very frustrated with the Weight Newt was leading. I got to be a real problem in trying to get things done. It was not a fun time. Look back on those times and think well, it ended up accomplishing what it set out to do. But then it was kind of sad on the other hand there is a lot of tension because of it. It really caused some hard feelings. As i say, newt was aware, he understood and realized that he did not have any choice but to step down in somebody else take over. You ran for leadership in the republican party a couple of times. I think for most people they dont know what goes into this kind of races or campaigns. Could you talk about that . Both times iran i should not have run. Iran because other people encourage me too do it that is the wrong reason to run seriously. You need to have a commitment on your own part to do it. I was never one who wanted to be part of leadership. I mean, i ended up there not there anything i did, i was not one to go out and seek that per se. Anyway, i was encouraged one time by the members the second time by my staff to run. It is not a Fun Experience to begin with. And then youre running against people you like and know. I was not willing to do some of the things you need to do, very frankly, to win its not me. I made up my mind i would never do it again. Like i said it should not have done the second time. The leadership races are i guess a necessary evil of what you have in congress with both parties naturally. But they are not always pretty. What did you learn from those races that might have helped your career or understood your institution a little better . [laughter] say out of it, really. Just try and do your job, be a good member. Ive always looked at it as public service. To me it was not politics i did not come from that background. It was always public service to me. I felt like i had an opportunity to help. The pleasure i got from the job is what i did one on one. The people i could help with a problem, Someone Whove been fighting the government for years, a Veteran Or Somebody who needed benefits to do them, they could not get them and theyd gone through red tape and red tape. I could pick up the phone, make a call and get it done. That was the thing. You should not have to do that but thats a fact of life and the way it is. That was the joy i got from the job was helping people one on one in the district to solve problems. Its kind of like what i did up here was part of the job but thats really where i felt like not just helpful, but i was really doing what i was supposed to do to be a public servant for those people. And so i concentrated on that part of my job really heavily. That was important part of what i did all the time with solving problems. Its interesting is People Today will come up to me as i had such a such a problem you came and i fixed it. Hear that in the district and its like i dont remember doing that because my attitude is i always, i do something, i move on. Im really bad, talking to you today and recalling things, i put them out of my mind and put move onto the next thing. I do not recall of those stories other people can tell you, unless someone jiggles my brain and reminds me. Yes i remember that, had one of those about two days ago, ran into somebody who came up to me and said do you remember when you came to the store, we showed you around and i did. But it must have been 15 years ago. Those things and something i had done that got his attention. It is that type of thing. Thats when i say you never know when youll have an effect on women. Young women i used to love having young women be interested in my office. You could help and mentor them when theyre trying to figure out what they wanted to do in life. It was always great to watch and then what happens. A lot of them became really successful. If you like to think maybe that little bit of whatever you did in their life made a difference. It is that type of thing in trying to help other people along. I think that is an important part of this job. You are in elected Leadership Position you are a liaison, Jennifer Dunn who you mentioned, who didnt hold elected position. What was the importance of having a woman sit at the Leadership Table whether they were elected or not some like Nancy Johnson very senior Committee Member precooked is very important with and be at the table because again we look at things differently with bring a different perspective to it. I think it is extremely helpful in the discussions because a lot of times youll be sitting at the Table And Somebody would bring up something totally never thought of before because it is not in the realm of how you usually do things. And theyd say youre a woman why dont you consider doing this . It made a difference. Women in leadership of always had a hard time. It is not easy because even though there are women in leadership and yes Nancy Pelosi has been a leader and a speaker, and has been difficult for women to have their voice heard. Even if they are in leadership. And i dont know why that is quite frankly. But i now, all of the women whove been there and the past, i dont know about today because im not here, in the past complained about that, they dont listen to me. And you know, we did not have many committee chairman. Only god. The only woman in the subcommittee was a jan myers, dear member jan myers, she was a dear two. Nobody else at that time. And of Course Nancy and some of the others. But it was really even though newt was very open it was a slow process for that to happen because the speaker does not make those decisions as you will note that the committee that does it. There is still a long way to go i think let me back up. Because we were treated very well. I am not at all criticizing anybody, the males were very kind to us, always. That was not a problem. But, it is not easy for women to then move up to those physicians like we are talking about, committee chairman, key Leadership Positions, et cetera. I think that is where we have a long way to go, i really do. But then again women happy willing to run for those things. And a lot of women arent. Especially if you are young and have families or have kids to take care of it. You have so many dual roles you are always torn. I do not know how Women Today who have young children are doing it very honestly. I would not have, my children were grown at the time iran for office. They were at home when i was City Council and mayor that by the time iran for this office to be away from home they were grown because i was torn enough just not being there and they missed a lot of my grandchildrens lives. I regret that. A lot of times i could not be there to go to school plays, and mr. Ballgames, you look back on it now and i feel very bad about it. At the time it bothered me but now i think g, look at all that time of their life i missed because i was here serving. quote what about the other speakers. A. Will they were good about that as well. I have to go back, it was a totally different speaker. As you will know. Thats kind of interesting in the way the people in the house but he was going the time. He was a calming influence and he helped to ride the ship i guess you would say. But that is open to everybody. He was very respectful of women. Included women. Was never a problem. Just going back to the same thing, you have to be willing to volunteer sometimes and to serve. Does that make sense. Definitely. You have the opportunity to share on the subcommittee pretty were you recruited for that position pretty. I was in them had no intentions of doing that as well. I guess you were popular pretty. Well like i say, i am basically quiet. And yes, some of the guys came to me and said, we would like you to chair this committee and i said, like why. I was caught offguard by it because it did not expect it read wasnt so sure at first because they had others to do it before i dont know if there was a woman since i dont think there and spent. But again, i think it was because i had a levelheaded common sense and the respect the fact that i could work together with people and bring people together this probably why but i never asked anybody why they did that. But there was a group who came to me and said i want to to do this and said i said okay. I was a tough job. A really tough job because of the time we passed medicare. [laughter] it was not a popular subject for a lot of my colleagues so i happen support it because i thought it was a good thing and thats what i try to tell people right now medicare will pay 20000 to get off Somebodys Leg but they wont pay couple hundred dollars a year to have them get the medicines they need or insulin or whatever it is. Its just common sense. There was a real expansion of medicare an extension of government so it was really a fine line in my dealing with them in the leadership, to work something out. We finally came to an agreement and socalled compromise. And that was acceptable however, a pastor about two years and did not hold but anyway it was another good experience and i was very blessed to have an opportunity to lead that group. And try to again, my concern had always been that the committee should be a part of conference and not a set aside from conference. This would try to do with him, not to say that anybody should stand on the principles anyway but to stand for the conservative principles they believed in but to find a way to work together with leadership so it could be that leadership could work with an event on in a sense of trying to move the legislation forward and not just be a group here among other things. And i think we accomplished that at that time i really do. Are you anticipating the questions. [laughter] pretty. A major topic that we have been asking about the Womens Caucus. How involved were you in the caucus of the overall impressions of the presentation. Well the Womens Caucus is a good purpose and probably still does again. It was always hard. Its hard to be part of the Womens Caucus as a republican because a lot of them think differently on issues. They shouldnt be issues with ar. Prolife, prochoice and that type of thing. So does always divide their between the two tried to come together and dependent on who the two people were and they depend on who was to depend on how positive it was in some years it was positive another use it was not i just cant go back and tell you the years, i am just saying from looking back on it now, the two people who are the key leaders were the ones that set the tone. And the ones that would help to bring people and because some years the caucus barely function another years and was very healthy. Debating on what they were doing and how they were addressing the issues if you can stay away from the charged once and it can be successful or could be. Is an example even think that that this issue you are able to have success with. Willoughby came Health Issues. Not the hot button issues but yes we would look very well together. Golly, again try to go back and think it is been a long time. We always try to look at the issues hottest women as issues but as issues that affect women and so sometimes that would cause a divide as well because something would be a womens issue when it really wasnt, it would affect other people as well i go back to health. As an example, can give you specific when im sorry if not helpful there. But it and implode. So, we are curious to know if you can describe your assignments to committees as a freshman the tour on Budget Committee. Science and the Business Committee buried we also try to get on the ways and means committee as well pretty. A long time ago. I dont know why. [laughter] i guess somebody told me is a good thing to do probably back then. As in the Budget Committee is a good time because we balance the budget and i always felt good about that. We did accomplish something we stayed with it for four years or so which was good. So that was a very good time read science you know, the Science Committee that if you really are in the science are things in your, thats a very important committee. I was more attuned to small business coming from a small business background. And then i went on will because again the woman was on rules was sleeping. They wanted another female there so he asked me if i would do it. And it really wasnt where i wanted to be honestly but i thought well this is good training. Learn the background on how the house runs in all of that so i did that for think eight years and finally one day i woke up and i thought why am i doing this. [laughter] and it was during a time when we had no order to it. We would meet at 10 00 oclock at night we would leave it to Morning Relieve a six morning amine, he would wait until midnight for a bill to get done and then it would not get density would go home and grab a couple of hours of sleep and you know its 4 00 oclock he would well he was just insane. Some like that now and i understand it was not like that after they finally got some order to it but it had been really bad it. And so i asked to go into energy in congress because North Carolina has been an important part what North Carolina does. So thats when i requested them and i was fortunate to get that in that committee a loved. And they were very good ones. But my favorite was intel. I loved the intel and it was one of my hardest decisions when i left was leaving the intelligence committee. It is a phenomenally well working committee democrats republicans they work together you could get something done and it was so nice, it really was that was a big part of the national security. That was back in 2001. Is it very important what i believed where i could believe i can make a difference. I didnt like leaving that committee. And they still work together. In the committee just when asked to click question about that there only few women that were on that panel and when you first met them, what was the link for you and did you work together as women at all. We were all good friends rated deborah not have been friends before deborah was another one that was a mentor to people as well. And the reason we were good friends, interesting because i mean, philosophically were as different as you can get but we got along very well and we can sit and talk, frequently we would do then have breakfast together something. She was very nice woman and is a very nice Woman I Cant believe she still here serving. [laughter] it is amazing to me she has been through health problems and she just keeps soldiering right on but i always liked louise into a somebody that i can sit down and talk to to answer your question. Shes a good person. You know the Rules Committee is different because its a secret committee. But it didnt always agree with that so fight didnt agree with it, i would go to the speaker and telling, I Cant work for them. This is not something that i can do and he is always about it and he didnt really question me rated generally that than enough votes without me. [laughter] you start with two different Chairmans Jerry Solomon and david, what are your memories of those two chairman. Are totally different, jerry was a ball of fire and then all of the time, and calm and cool and collective but jerry, that was part of jury was the chairman and this and have all of the chaotic hours. It was unreal. Its interesting because his daughterinlaw does what i do. [laughter] and i talked to her not long ago and she said her mom was down on christmas and didnt know we had moved there like that she was there a culvert and she said my mom would have loved to you next time she comes, we will get together. There is a wonderful man, a really wonderful man and he was a military guy to the course of this was the way he wanted to run things. I mean, really good man in the way he treated everybody. In the david was the one after. Time, he would say if we dont have a bill done by 11 00 oclock and nine or 10 00 oclock or whatever, however it happened work out we would go home and come back at 7 00 oclock in the morning employed what a relief. That was wonderful. Thats when i had Breast Cancer that was really hard so sometimes in the middle of the night it just could not come back. It was too difficult but they were very understanding of that. Alluded to this but i wanted to make sure to ask you directly how important you think it is to have women on these committees that you served on another committees in the house pretty. Women should be on all of the committees in the house because again a different perspective that they have been to the table and it provides a balance in a way that the Thought Process is different. A lot of women dont want to serve on certain committees, they can pick and choose where they want to go. And that has a lot to do with it as well i am sure. But there needs to be a balance there. No matter what committee it is an in leadership as well. There needs to be some balance with women being at the table. And it is hard because when you are here, you want to work on the issues that you care about. Thats generally how you want to choose your committees and so sometimes they need certain people or whatnot they will ask if youre interested interested in start serving in a certain committee which will then help to bring about some of that balance. But most of the time, the dry to give people their preferences as to where they would like to work and serve. So kind of the way that we have done this to lend itself to perspective of having women on all of the communities. And i dont know how that changes in us as a whole during the committees on both sides just to look at that. You alluded to your own battle with Breast Cancer pretty were curious to know how the battle with cancer changed or affected your career here on the help. It was a tough time. When i was diagnosed, when youre in politics you dont want anybody to know that youre not a hundred percent and you have to be strong all of the time and all of that. So i thought what i do because this is pretty obvious that im going to have to have treatment and be gone and whatnot some has been talked about it. We decided that we would be open and honest and just say hey, i have cancer but im going to be to predict and so i went ahead and had my surgery privately and then i had a Press Conference at home with my surgeon and my oncologist. And said this is something very prevalent today among men as well as women in and shes going to be fine. Were going to do Treatment And Blah Blah Blah Salute very open about it and then one of the television stations and home came to me and said, we would like to follow you journey. And so i was not really sure that was a good idea so i knew cokie roberts well so i called cokie up and said this because i knew she would give me a fair assessment and she said well i think you should do it you should lead us do it. [laughter] because we can do it nationally and reach more women that way. So they provided a camera to my husband and he tell me every day. Then i put together a Documentary And Diane sawyer actually went up and interviewed with her hand they were very good about the whole idea was no your body is woman you need to not let somebody tell you something is not right if you think that something is wrong. We should not take no for an answer. Anyway i was a message and it changed what i did here and unchanged just like everybody said it does because you start to look introspectively in the first thing that you thank you so im going to die which is not the case. So you start looking at life in a different way to becomes a lot more precious each day, the time in the family and all of that type of thing. But it gave me her god be more involved in the issues i started to work a lot more in the Health Issue and it worked in middle file because that is something thats totally ignored most of the time of year. But the Cancer Caucus and became very active in the Cancer Caucus with the main thing that i felt proud of was the fact that after i was diagnosed in people knew that i had cancer, started to get women calling me as i can you help me with treatment. It can afford it. And so how it piecemeal and try to put the doctors need the doctors to donate their services to them to help them. And it became apparent to me in here congress, we had this bill through medicaid that you could be diagnosed at the centers for Disease Control which was the local County Health Department but if they said you have cancer, and the answer was im sorry theres no treatment available, we cannot help you and all you can think about is i was fortunate to have insurance but how would you face that if you were a woman and working woman that had no Insurance And Somebody said, I Cant help you. In fact you going to die. So we started to work on a bill that said through diagnosed through the centers of Disease Control, your local health department, you can get treatment. Under medicaid the women who were working with no insurance and they had to be passed all 50 states. So he passed a bill the house only one person descending and it passed the senate was ratified in all 50 states so i felt that was a good thing to happen while i was here the way that i could contribute that have not had Breast Cancer, i would not have thought about it. This is something that you are able to also but the caucus be handed pretty. Im sure the caucus was behind it in the process it didnt start out that way. It is myself in a couple of other members who started it and then you know, everybody was supportive and we got people to sign on to it. So it really is only one dissenter so that was pretty good. But cancers that have think a lot of people in the thing that i an amazing was after i had it, it learned the women that honeywell would have cancer in the past 20 years and they never said a word about it. They just went through the Treatment And Everything by themselves. Then there was one woman here in was a good friend with shiva to be a democrat and she had Breast Cancer she would not tell anybody. She didnt want no one to know. And there was a second one later on that also had Breast Cancer and she would not tell anybody until she was done and then she came back and said i have Breast Cancer. So everybody handles it differently but i just thought that if i can help other women and i still literally again today, up until about a year ago, i was still having women come up to me and say you saved my life and i saw you on television and he said go get a mammogram and i did and i have rest cancer. A subtype of thing and when you have a physician or your public figure, you also have a responsibility and to use that in a way for good. So that was one thing that happened to the Breast Cancer. That i was able to do. But my treatment at home and my treatment was rough i would be home for a week and then i would come up here and stay two weeks and i would go home. So i did that which that worked out well and then when i had my radiation, i would go at seven in the morning to get my radiation that i would fly. Then fly home and i to do with the next day but we had two of my six week during easter so i only had to do it for four weeks. God gave me the ability in the energy to be able to do that so i can still do my job rated so i was really fortunate. I wanted to ask you sort of mentioned it before this but this private personal issue and you came out and said it made a big difference. But the reaction of your colleagues especially your women colleagues at the time when they came out with that news pretty. Everybody was so supportive, it was unbelievable and really really supportive. Very much so. And Debbie Schultz and i became good friends after that because she came to me when she had cancer and asked me if i would help her sponsor a bill which we did. So you know, it is another way of pulling people together across party lines is you have a common interest. And there again i think a lot of that is missing today even though you have a common interest, people dont reach out and work together. You alluded to the fact that you were also an advocate for mental health services. What brought you into that issue and that also were there any other women it that you worked with on that pretty. I got involved because we have a granddaughter bipolar. Fortunately she is fine now. She has been through some real horrible years in her life shes fine. So ive because of that in dealing with her, really become more aware of the issue in general and then i saw jamison on Larry King back when we were dealing with our Granddaughter Answering here so i called kay and i said i would like to come and talk with you and she was doing series on mental health and young people. So i did and she was very gracious. She helped me and so i started to get involved nationally. I always admired Patrick Kennedy because he and i had worked together on this as well but he was willing to come out and say ive got a problem. And i deal with it. But the thing that always disturbed me was even though congress had somebody in your family, as a problem and you noted, they will be public about it. They dont want anybody to know pretty see thats whats wrong because unless you put attention to an issue is not going to get it or get the funding that it needs to be in the front burner, look to the problems country today. The sake lets a percentage of people who suffer from Depression And Anxiety need gone down the list let alone schizophrenia and bipolar disease and the others. Its huge in the money that is costing us. In healthcare, lost jobs, lost lives destroyed. Because people dont or cant get help, it is crazy but we dont as a society dont want to deal with it. But there is a caucus fortunately networks on those issues. Still, people dont want anybody to know. You feel there is an added level of flipping a national representative because you were a woman member, not just representing yours constituents, the women across country. I think so. Stuart talking about the Breast Cancer issue, there was no question because of being able to affect women no matter where they were. And the other members were so supportive. And that none of that was never a problem but it really was a gratifying experience. Boy said cancer was the best thing that happened to me and people say, you better be kidding and i said no because it gave me the opportunity to help all they said the woman that i would not have had any idea. I got involved in all of this relay for Life And Calm in all the organizations but take part in raising money doing research know that. Women come together reasonably well, locally and nationally and this is, robbery. You are a survivor. Since a good way to get people involved. We start with the important mentorship earlier and if you find late in the year career, he served as a mentor for younger members of congress, men or women. Usually would try to fix money in the classroom take under my wing partied a very dear friend of mine died of cancer. That she would not go she knew she had a bit her son was getting married she want to spoil the wedding and by the time she went after he was married, she was in very bad date with a very aggressive cancer. But anyway when she came to congress, i took her under my wing and we found out that we both had similar backgrounds a lot in common we wouldnt have known otherwise so i tried that with women if each year, not officially but just finding somebody that i thought maybe i could help by caring my life experiences with them. And help them to navigate the place appear. In the part of this project that we are focusing on this Women Staff and the role they play in education. How important is it to have this on the hill pretty. Things are important and i had to Women Chief of staff and i had Women Director and i try to have women every chance i could and sometimes you dont have a choice. I always tried to do that because again so mentoring of giving them the opportunity and it looks good in the resume to go on and do something else. For chief of Staff Or Member of congress or a senator or whatever it may be so yes, thats extremely important mentoring the staff and trying to include women, try to promote them and move them up every chance i got it actually a couple of them started out with the interns and moved on up the ranks. And one of them became, we call that the administrative assistant back them in dc. Then you have a chief of staff in the district he was a good friend that i trained for a while. So the spike in my chief of Staff And District to me it important to be there in the the eyes and ears and i wasnt afraid suffer my office appear, we had women. And there are more now than there used to be. When i first came up here there were not many Women Chief of staff. So that has improved. We are coming up on the end of our time so i just wanted to ask a few retrospective early 2013. Why did you decide to retire from congress . When i first came here, again, Nancy Johnson said to r me youll know when its time to retire. Which is sage advice. And i knew. 2 reasons, mainly. 1, i felt like i was being effective. That sounds terrible but people werent willing towork together which is what i had always tried to do. Cross party lines, intraparty , but really pulling people together. It just wasnt happening anymore. And everything was so divisive up here. I find myself being unhappy. The last couple of years i wasnt happy here. I found myself getting angry which isnt me. Its not my nature to dothat. And it was like, im not accomplishing anything. I felt like i was beating my head against the wall so i finally decided itstime for me to go and i always wanted to go on my own terms. So i just said im not going to run again and i was always comfortable with the decision. The day i left i loaded up dmy car, never looked back and i havent looked back since. Its been good. There is life after Congress And Itsa good life. You can be normal and do what you want to do without somebody else telling you what to do all the time but it was a good decisionfor me and it was the right gtime. But as you know, we are historians so were asking questions about the past. Weve got questions we think are fun because were going to ask you to predictthe future. There is now 108 women in congress, 88 in the house. How many do you think there will be for the 150th anniversary of Jeannette Rankin swearing into the house . I hope there will be a lot more. I hope there will be twice as many but another 50 percent anyway and if we can encourage women to run, that can happen but again, theyve got to be willing Ilto Step up to the plate and i think thats missing today. They just arentwilling to serve because of the things we talked about before. What do you think needs to be done to encourage women to make that next step . They need to understand that you can get here. They need to understand that you can take risks and still survive and its not the end of the world and its a matter of this mental ring going on at the local level and the state levels and i think this is where Weve Droppedthe Ball in trying to mentor some of the women. Women will run for City Council or State Legislature but then they dont want to run for a national office because first they think they cant raise the money. Its harder for women to raise the money. It was hard for me to raise the money. Its interesting because i have a son whos now in politics and he raises a lot more money than i ever did from some of the same people. And i say that because i just sit back and watch. Is good at what he does, not because i want him to be in politics. I tried to discourage him every way i could. But my point in saying that is if you talk to other women youll find men are more apt. Because men give more than a woman do. It just kind of falls that way so its up to women to get more involved in the process. If they do, and keepmoving up the ladder in effect, have a little experience they can get elected. Weve got to encourage that and i think the political parties on both sides need to do a better job ofencouraging women and move up to the local level , the state level. Either Way But Move so they can run for a congressional Seat Or Senate seat, whatever it may be. What advice would you give to a young woman oryoung man who came to you and asked about running for congress . There have been times i said dont do it recently because of the rancor and what they have to go through but i say youre the one who has to decide that. If you want to be a public servant and youre running for the right reasons you should do it. If youre running because you want to be in politics and be in Leadership Someday or whatever, youre running for the wrong reasons. This is a public Service Job but its become political and i think thats a mistake. When i Mentor Somebody and talk to them because people will ask me what do you think , i tried to learn more about somebody i dont really know well and more about their r backgrounds but their motivations for doing it for me the motivation is the key. Then either encourage or discourage them quite frankly. I try to encourage everybody i have but i have to be honest and i say are you willing to make a 100 Percent Commitment . Are you willing to have your life turned upside down from the standpoint that youhave no control over your life , youre at the mercy of the people who elected you and your here to serve them and are you willing to make that commitment . This isnt a 9 to 5 job. Its a seven day a week 24 Hour Job and unless you realize that going into it youre going to have a big rude awakening if you getthat far. I try and be realistic and make them realize this is what its like. Its not this glamour job. Everybody thinks you go out and wine and dine and party and i never did that stop. If i went to dinner with somebody its because i liked them d. I paid my own way so theres never any question. Im not a Party Person and i didnt do all that stuff but i think thats what puts people on the wrong track once they get here. They get it off all these things available to you to do and they lose track of who they are inside and why they came here. The grounding. If you have a good spouse, the spouse is going to keep you grounded. I had one of those who would tell me, how stupid i was if i was doing something that was, you know, that was good because you need that balance and a lot of people dont have that balance so thats the other thing. Then i tried to find out about what kind of support do you have. Family support, whatever. Maybe you need to know how theyre going to be encouraged for supported and what theyre going to do. Because if you have a spouse who doesnt want you to do this, youre in deep do do. When we came here, i know there were i think seven of the new members who got divorced the first term. Their marriage is just split because the Woman Couldnt take it. And she couldnt take them home with the kids and him being gone all the time. She just didnt plan on what it was and how it turned out. And so thats a real challenge. Then youre always going to be torn ill never forget sitting in the airport one day , and there was a young man, a member beside me talking on the phone and when he got off the phone he was justlike , i said to him whats wrong . He said that was my son. I said how old is he. He said hes 11. He said i didnt get home in time for, his flight was delayed and i didnt get home in time for his ballgame so i was asking him about his ballgame and he said what do you care your never hear anyway. The next term quit. So youre always torn by that, what youre not able to do to be with your family and a lot of young people who want to run for this job have no idea. That is like that. So i try and tell them basically, this is what you have to plan for. This is the way it is. Its not what looks like. Heres what you have to do to get there, you have to be m committed to make all of phone call. You have to do the things that most People Today are willing to do because its hard work. So i dont know. Its not an easy job, no question. You know that because youre here but its a very gratifying job. I had one last question and in terms of your House Career what do you think will be your lasting legacy . I dont know. In allseriousness, i dont know. I would just hope it was that i was respected as a member that tried to dothe best she could. Helpothers. What was your proudest achievement . I think the bill, out of all things that i did. I knew it helped a lot of people. I knew it was going to have results and sometimes when you do bills its great to do them but you know its not either going to make a difference or you know maybe it wont end up the way you something would or but in this case that was ratified by all thestates and it turned out to be a good thing. Ng thank you so much, we really appreciate your time. Im glad youre doingthis, to talk to the women because its important and its kind of like a forgotten thing