A pass for monday to be able to reconnect with their families. So tuesday was really the first time we were kind of getting back to work. driving to work and it was really just very normal. According to nine in the first reports came of it plane hitting the twos the first of the two World Trade towers what did you thanks . We were planning out the week and the month as well looking at our training priorities looking at a range time transitioning to a new phase of flight and so we were working on administration details and getting back into her Training Rhythm when a knock came at the door and one of us open up the door and he poked his head in said hey somebody flew into the World Trade center and we looked outside the windows and as everyone remembers in washington d. C. It was the crisp september morning. Lou skies, a very clear day. It was lovely and we looked at each other really puzzled because normally the Weather Pattern is not that different from what they are in new york. We all kind of laughed like what kind of those though messed up the approach going into new york. We thought it was some small airplane maybe general aviation that had just made a terrible mistake coming down the hudson river. So we left a little bit about it as we had no concept of the magnitude of what had actually occurred and we really didnt understand that realistically it that its hardly cause any damage to what truly happened. Where were you when you first saw the picture of the gaping hole on the side of the World Trade center . F3 got the first word we went back to her meeting. We continue to discuss and plan out the week and our schedule as normal because we did not understand or have any way to comprehend. There was no information regarding how serious the situation was. Wasnt until the second aircraft struck the second World Trade center when they came in and they said hey they hit the World Trade center and it was on purpose. The meeting immediately dissolved and we rush to go see what was being reported on on the media and go look at the television and thats when all of us really understood it at this level that the world had changed. At that time in 2001 what was your job and your responsibility is . I was a brandnew first lieutenant. I had just gotten on the squad in january of 2001 so i was a Training Officer in charge of managing and tracking the Combat Training which was Continuation Training to ensure that we were ready and qualified for all the events we needed to do whether that was airtoair guard fighting airtoair Intercepts Missile shoots and bombings and things like that. That was my job to make sure that everyone was qualified to do that. Thats what we were doing in that Training Meeting and having just graduated from the f16 basic course i was still a young fighter pilot. Where is sanders and connection to washington d. C. And were you stationed there in 2001 . I was at andrews. Thats where the first squad are in Fighter Squad is located. The first Fighter Squad is on the east side of the base which is eight not akel miles from the pentagon. Walk us through the morning after the second plane hit the second tower to what was happening who were you attacking to and what was the reaction at andrews . There was initially a lot of confusion because if you can remember 10 years ago those Air Defense Unit which had been set up and had been used in the continental United States to defend us from the soviets there when the soviet union collapsed that had been drawn down significantly so might unit which once upon a time used an Alert And Air Sovereignty Mission for norad. It no longer was part of that air defense mission. We were a Generalpurpose Unit decide to go to war not to protect american soil so as a result our chain of command didnt go up through norad and through the first Air Force so when the first aircraft hit the. Centers and it was clear to norad and first Air Force that we had to defend americas skies we we had no message should know that the d. C. Air National Guard was there in d. C. And was available. There was no clear authority to be older reached down to us so just as they couldnt reach down to us we had no way to reach out to them to get authorization to go and fly. So there was a lot of confusion. The most that i could do was stand there and be ready to be passed as i watch my leadership in a very created an ad hoc way tried to reach out through their chain of command to be able to get authority to watch. How do you prepare for something like this and how did you personally repair prior to 9 11 . Oh yeah i did. Because that was not one of our tasking units there was no Alert Training for me. My job is to learn how to go to war. My Job Wasnt to learn how to alert and there were no rules of engagement. I hadnt been taught about what that kind of mission might be like on american soil. The closest that i had trained for this typically something thats planned for in the Air Tasking and something we might use to protect the base overseas but it really wasnt something that we had thought about regarding how to do it in the good old u. S. And i had never been trained to scramble the plane. To give you perspective when you fly in f16 before we had gps and at that time we did not have gps we had a partial navigation units took eight bandits to be able to get the gyroscope and the engine to give us a navigational platform so it would take about 20 minutes to start to get the avionics and the systems going and go through the preflight checks to ensure that all all the systems were operating correctly and thats not even including time to look at this forms and walk around the airplane and whatnot. We usually planned about half an hour to 40 minutes from the time he walked out the door to the time you took off and does the new guy, i was going to do everything right and everything by the book because attention to detail and ensuring that you execute perfectly as part of it and that is what i was learning to do. What was demanded of us that morning was completely seatofthepants as far as i was concerned. Explained to me scrambled aircraft. As Scramble Start is where and it specifically executes the mission now. Once the horn goes off you can run to the jet and started expeditiously and feel get airborne within a minimum set of units and single digits and not even doubledigit so its a very quickly quick reaction to an external threat so you have time to deal to get airborne and turn it around before it gets to whatever youre trying to protect. The president is in florida for Vice President is that the white house and the Transfer Secretary is ordered all planes across the country to be grounded and another plane, a third plane is at the pentagon. Where were you when all that happened . It was clear that there was a threat to the d. C. Area which we immediately assumed was the second aircraft had hit the World Trade center. Why did you assume that . Because washington d. C. Is the heart of the United States and its the nations capital. Its the center of the free world so as ominous as though to aircraft hitting the. Center where it was clear to us that we needed to get airborne to protect washington d. C. The challenge was how do we get authorization to deal to get airborne. National guard units have two separate chains of command we have the federal chain of command but also that federal chain of command mobilizes us into the activeduty Air Force in a very specific a line that goes up through the activeduty Air Force and the secretary of defense and to the president. You have to mobilize when that happens in our their chain of command is the civilian command so we go through the government. The National Guard doesnt go to the mayor of washington d. C. He goes through the secretary of the army and ultimately to the president of the United States. We had to work our civilian chain of command to activate that to try to get permission to become airborne. As a young wingman my job, like i said i was standing around for someone to tell me what to do so i could support what we were trying to do to become airborne. We had Data Transfer cartridges for the f16 and think of it like a large floppy Disk Or Thumb Thumb Drive because there are so many computerized avionics on the aircraft and whether thats weapons information, navigational information etc. But where pull the program before we ever get to the aircraft so they can take a Data Cartridge put it into the jet and turn it on and download the Mission Profile while the Navigation Information etc. What i was doing in my leadership was to energize the chain of command upward to get operations to launch but i was basically programming the transfer cartridges and it was based off of what is in the d. C. Area and where is the capitol is the capitol and where is the national mall. Where is the critical infrastructure and where are all those little airports. Do you remember what you were thinking . There was so much going on. I was focused on expeditiously loading up the cartridges and then trying to free myself up so i could do the next thing that was necessary was. You had a moment that morning that and absorb everything that was happening. This sounds kind of intuitive but when that situation hit me i lost all emotion. I didnt have an emotional reaction at all. It was much more focused on what are the things that i need to do to enable us to protect the capitol and one of the things that i need to do to facilitate us being airborne in the most time i had for reflection was when i finished uploading the cartridges i was standing at the counter and observing what leadership was doing and trying to anticipate what the next step might be. They had Colonel Phil Thompsons Dog or Weapons Officer had been acting as his supervisor took over so he could begin to manage and prepare for what we anticipated being able to get airborne. Commander general woolley came down and was trying to get information again trying to address the chain of command. One thing that was very special and unique about our situation of being at andrews is because sanders is also the home of Air Force one we had established a relationship with the secret service in tracking the power because when Air Force knew that service on the airfield so they could provide better protection for the president. We have established a relationship with them to be able to manage the impact to our daily activities so one of the things that was going on was dan called secret service and called the guys in the towers and say hey we are here and we can help. Have someone tell us what to do and they began to address that relationship as well. Also in flying with the states and in the training we are and, when we train we dont train with the new real bombs that have explosives on them. We are trained with no weapons on board and where able to simulate the actual Weapons Deployment or retrain with small concrete projectiles which can mimic the actual profile. We realistically had nothing that we would be able to do. We would take off. So the other thing that we did which was very outofthebox but realizing the seriousness of the Situation Race and called down to the which was located far away from any population on the base because those were the things that go boom live so something happens you arent isolated. The guys there have no television and they have no radio. They are living in a world where to them its a beautiful Tuesday Morning and then they get the phonecall saying hey i want you to build up some 89 heat seeking missiles. What are you talking about . So he was energizing what he knew by anticipating what we needed to do but that was going to take some time. Where were you when what he remember you are thinking when the planes hit the pentagon . Sickened that we werent airborne first. And it simply increase the sense of urgency of the situation. And what happened . We had had three Aircraft Airborne earlier that morning for a Training Mission in North Carolina and it was just a very basic Bombing Mission basic Service Attack and they would do some scraping with bullets as well. One guy had gotten down to what we call bingo a fuel which is the fuel you will need to build to get home. He was training on his own when the towers were hit and because he was coming back home in Air Traffic Control new he was getting some unusual queries. Do you have any missiles on board and you have a alms on board so he called back to the Office Desk where are standing around and talking about the supervisor flying duties and hey whats going on . Dont worry about it. Just come home. How much gas have you got . Just come home and land. Then the two other guys that were down at the range he called the Army Control and said come home as fast as you possibly can. Again they were getting message by Air Traffic Control. When they landed date as may hey how much gas are you going to happen one of them elli hutchinson had just enough gas to deal with take off. They knew, Air Traffic Control new based off the radar signals they had in the transponder signals they anticipated there was another aircraft. He told him take off and look down the river but they think theres another one coming. Billy took off down the potomac and he landed and he was taking off again when we were taxing in. We talked with Mary Matalin who is with Vice President cheney and she basically said the Vice President had talked to the president about having orders for flight 93 in shanksville pennsylvania. Did your unit get those orders and what was transpiring . There was four of those and once we finally got word while actually four of us mark and myself and raising cain and rasmussen. We had a very quick briefing regarding take off and how do we stay together but it was decided the staff and i would take off first even though we knew wed have to end up taking off before aircraft were armed. Is that two planes . Yes. That i would take off. They waited until we got the heat seeking missiles on the aircraft and when they had the 89s then they would take off. They would wait however long they needed to until they got an 89. Ann a9. It was clear as you said we would take the aircraft down. Were you prepared for that to shoot down a commercial Passenger Jet . We wouldnt be shooting it down. We would be ramming the aircraft because we didnt have weapons on board to be able to shoot the airplane down. Between both staff and i had 105 explosives. They werent high incendiary explosives so we were putting on our Flight Gear and he looked at me and he said i will ram the cockpit. I had made the decision that i would take the tail of the aircraft because if he ran the cot the Debris Field of the aircraft would be a wide Debris Field but i knew if i took to the tail of the aircraft that it would eventually go straight down so the pattern of debris would be minimized. The people on flight 93 were heroes. They were going to die no matter what and so my concern was how do i minimize damage on the ground and how do i keep it from going forward depending on where we might intercept the aircraft . Explained to specifically how the operation potentially would have worked if the plane were still airborne and how you would if looked for a united flight 93 . We took off and we knew they would be coming down the river. I mean we ran down the sidewalk and jumped into the aircraft and it was funny because like i said i was the new guy and i was trained to do everything by the book and this was not buy the book. We were improvising everything and making it up has begun based off based off of our Experience And Knowledge of that of weaponry and flying the aircraft and what information wed be able to gather from the situation i got down to my airplane in my first instinct was to look at the forms and he says what are you doing . Get in the airplane. Get it started. We jumped in in the Air Planning that the airplane started and i didnt go through any of the normal checks. To make sure that the airplane was safe and that was liable and i distinctly remember that taxi and i got my radio and im yelling at my Crew Chief you know pulled the jocks and ive push forward the throttle and my Crew Chief and other guys on the Flight Line or pulling tens out of the aircraft so that my gear will come up. There are safety pins in the airplanes so they are pulling the safety pins as i am taxing to go to immediate takeoff. I didnt even have a navigation unit. I didnt have any of that setup. It was a clear day because we were essentially vf are visual flight rules. We didnt have all of the avionics were not yet awake when we took off. What time was this . To be honest i dont know. I think it was sometime after 10 30. You said you kept your emotions in check but was your heart beating fast . Were you nervous or had nervous at energy or was it a mission you just knew you had to achieve . It wasnt that my motions were in check its like they didnt even exist. They just werent even there but there was significant adrenaline it was dear god please dont let me screw up. So you get up in the air and what happened . Explain what you are looking for and how the events transpired over the next nine minutes. When we took off we taxied out and got clearance to take off before we got to the runway and i followed right after him and i rejoined to a loose route and then we just headed to the northwest. The potomac was giving us sensors for where they saw and anticipated where the threat might be. We were looking on our radar and trying to figure out. Did you see the pentagons . Yeah. And what did you think . It was surreal. It was totally surreal. To see justice billowing smoke and when we took off we didnt get very high. We stayed 2000 feet so we were smoking over the city at a very low altitude and we never got below 3000 feet. We needed to make sure that we stayed low for a visual lookout as well as for the radar. At that point what was the chain of command like for you . Was the chain of command better and were you getting clear signals as to what was required and what was happening in the big picture . No, not at that point in time. We knew what our mission was and that was the singular focus was the communication between me and staff to ensure that we have a comprehensive sweep of the airspace so nothing got by us and we were also visually looking out to see whether or not there was another airliner. We actually flew and i dont know how many not equal miles away from d. C. But the further away we got from d. C. The further we spread out a little bit because it may change the axis of where he was coming in and baby we needed to be a little bit sneakier but we got to the point where we needed to go back and fly over d. C. Because we clearly sanitized the area and ensure that hes not an immediate Threat And Flight 93 is not near the vicinity and able to prosecute an attack at that time so we needed to get back and make sure we could play the short game to clear out the airspace. When we returned to d. C. Thats when on one hand it began to settle down the cause we never, flight 93 wasnt there and as we discovered later the passengers on that flight were true heroes. We needed to make sure anyone who is or the national Capitol Reason for somebody is supposed to be airborne. If they werent we were supposed to turn them away but. I realizes the total hypothetical. You are in the situation, youre flying over washington d. C. And you potentially have to bring down a plane and the nations capitol. In light of everything happening did you give any thought as to how you would have done that if it was over the city . I retirement for the commercial airliner . Commercial jetliner, small private plane potentially could have been a target. He described the tools that you had to bring down a plane. Eight washington d. C. Versus a more rural area. If you give any thought and how you might have done that . For the large aircraft it simply would be taking off the tail, which would be i would essentially be a kamikaze and a ram my aircraft into the tail of the aircraft. I gave some thought to what i have time to eject . But i would need to ensure, youve only got one chance for you do not want to eject and have missed it. He got to stick with it the whole way. When we came back and continue to the Combat Air Patrol over d. C. , and there were plenty of other Aircraft Airborne we actually did have to turn away. What we employed was we would fly in front of them and put out a flare or two. You know what a flare is. We would pump out a flare from the aircraft and basically turn the other aircraft away. Wed also get on the Victor Frequency it is called guard and then tried to communicate with the aircraft. Though it 121. 5 is a frequency all pilots know about universal if you get in Trouble Or Need help, you are not on the same frequency, if you go over to the Guard Frequency you should be able to talk to anybody. We would also try to get them up on guard for. So you were prepared to take your own life if necessary to bring down that plane. Of course. Let me ask about flight 93 that crashed in shanksville. When did you get worried about that . We got word, not specifically it had crashed but it was no longer a threat. Probably, and my recollection is relatively fuzzy, maybe an hour or so after we had gotten airborne. And yet there is still a lot of uncertainty. There is bombs going off at the State Department and other plane still in the air. At that point what we are doing same mission . It was a mission to protect the national Capitol Reason. What had happened was we got there and nines on the jets and took off. As we were airborne, Mark And Dan worked with the Potomac Air traffic patrollers. This is such a testament to the professionalism and abilities of the airtraffic controllers. Their job is to keep airplane separated, keep them on routes which are kind of like a road the sky. Sequence them at certain miles or minutes apart from each other. And in less then five minutes they learned how to speak military fighter pilots to us. As if they were a combat controller. Because they said Theres Navigation Aid on washington reagan airfield. So take if you can imagine 360 radius coming out of its one of the ways we navigate. You take those and take a mileage off of that radio. So for example instead of calling it national lets call it bullseye. After somebody who might be on that 090 radio of that vortex you 090 and for 30 miles what you call 090 4 30. Then given altitude, 090 4 30 eight, 5000 feet but instantaneous these guys got it for their Learning Agility was phenomenal. They adapted and changed how they had been trained to operate and sequencing airplanes and separating them. Learning how to bring airplanes together and affects and intercepts. How help give us a vector to intercept something they might see. Or for example if we had eight radar hits in a city out there with the idea clear Contact Bullseye 030 for 25, 2000 feet. Potomac would then say oh, that is a medevac flight 1363 he is squawking 5263. He is off of fredericksburg and headed toward easton. Or something like that. And so they were very quickly able to start speaking military speak. And then because we were now talking the same language we could discern and differentiate who is the first responder, who is supposed to be airborne, who is helping the good guys. Where the unknowns of their their bumbling around because they did not get the news. And they were unintentionally airborne because they did not know any better. And who is potentially a threat. So the first responders would like them to go on their way. Anyone else would go check out her. Of energy get back on the ground . About four hours later. Norad had started their response through first Air Force. Folks down at langley took off. They were vectored over the atlantic ocean because they thought there might be more flights coming inbound over the atlantic. They went out over the atlantic, they were high at about 18000 feet. Norad had also scrambled some tankers. There are tankers out over the atlantic as well. So when those guys came in over dca, the northeast air defense sector, which is a part of norad, its the regional control, they called the potomac and said hey we have got airborne we need to talk to the guys that you have over d. C. So then we began working with them, that Air Refueling Capability over the atlantic. Thats what enabled us to stay airborne for four hours. We put them in a high cap to see if there is anyone paid the higher you are the further out you can see with your radar. They had the high look and they were specifically looking out over the atlantic. And then we had basically nx cap. I had the northeast leg, south of the north west leg, arrays and had the south West Iger had the southeast leg. We were clearing and pushing down all the unknown aircraft in keeping them away from the seat. When you got back on the ground, did you have a chance to watch the news . Were you being debriefed by your superiors . How did your afternoon unfold . I landed, went to the bathroom, sent an email to my parents to let them know i was alive. And then was rounded up by Colonel Mark Doherty because theres National Guard leadership that wanted to know what did we see, what did we do . Kind of begin to fill their situational awareness with what we had done that morning. So we got scooped up and taken to the center to go brief number of general officers who were trying to gather information and then continue to respond to be able to protect our nation. Which was, as a first lieutenant one of the first experiences i had had it were i have never seen semi stars in my life. It was a dark room. There were a few bright lights and our faces were there asking pointed questions i was glad sass was doing most of the answering and talking to. You remember the questions they were asking, one or two of them . They were really focus on what did you see . When it was kind of what is the state of the cap at that point in time . They just want to know what is going on sass dimension told about the tanker and those in the high look. It was really basic information. There is not anything really earth shattering about what we were able to tell them. But will mate walked out, who is a really unusual day. One moment of levity we walked out and he said i didnt say the F Word did i . Estelle you did just fine. We needed to get airborne again. We were low on people. The base had shut down so that really were not letting anyone on base and they were not letting anyone off base. We did not have that many pilots that we could fly. It was a very quick turn for us. I dont think we were on the ground for more than an hour. Host how are your emotions at that point . Guest the adrenaline was driving away. After the initial intercept or attempted take off and sweep of the northwest, i had brought down a lot of low general aviation aircraft, turning them away, getting them to land. That had become somewhat routine. We werent getting complacent, but the immediate threat had gone down. And this time i was taking off with a full load of bullets and m nines. When water this or what . Guest those of the heat seeking missiles. I had missiles on for this time. Host did you have a chance to eat during the day . Guest no. Host when you look back at that day and you think about all that you went through, what goes through your mind . Guest well, you know it is interesting because when i took off that day, we did not know what would happen. Sass and i fully expected to intercept the flight three and take it down. So, the experience of the moment very different from the reflective experience. Because reflecting on it, ten years from now i did not change history. I did not keep the pentagon from being hit. So, the experience of the moment, and did we actually change the course of events, are two different things. So how you resolve those, i dont know that you really do. A couple weeks later, when we had gotten into the routine of the air patrols and whatnot, our ops group commander, Jeff Johnson who is now a commander, a tremendous, tremendous man, had gone to the pentagon for some briefings with the d. C. Guard had done. It was really unprecedented from september 11, from 911 to the next three weeks, the d. C. InterNational Guard owned and controlled the cap the Combat Air Patrol. So when fighters flew in from langley or anywhere else, we actually own and where the cap commanders. We would then commit fighters in the cap to go intercept or investigate if somebody else came in. Which was a very unusual control structure. So he had gone to the pentagon as part of the lessons learned and the hot wash. If you remember at the time how could this happen . There was intense analysis and study what were the failures that led up to that point . What was our response . He came back and gathered all of us into the Mission Briefing Room and told us the story of what someone had said to him when he was walking to the pentagon. They saw him, saw his flight suit, so his patches and secure from the d. C. Guard. They had been in the pentagon when it was hit. And so this individual had been part of the evacuation out of the pentagon. For the folks coming out of the east side they still had a Child Development Center there. They were handing out babies because they could not carry enough of babies out of the Child Development Center. They were trying to evacuate these kids. Can you imagine . I am mother now myself so to imagine what that must have been like you are seeing these pentagon workers and service members, rushing out of the pentagon and trying to get these children to a place of safety. The acrid smoke was billowing up. The smell of the Jet Fuel and all of the burning debris and burning flesh, and the ashes falling down. Nobody knew there was no information for this individual as they were evacuated the building, was there another one coming in . Thered been to that hit the World Trade center. And then we flew over. Full afterburner, coming low, right over the pentagon as we headed up north to look for flight 93. This individual said the entire crowd erupted into cheers because they new at that point in time, that they were safe. Because we were airborne and we would not let anyone else come and hurt them. You did how many missions after 911 over d. C. . I dont know we state airborne. On that day i went up for a second one and escorted the president back in on Air Force one, that second mission was very interesting. That was when we were given authority for free fire. That typically for the rules of engagement, it is a very, very strict. We are very deliberate who has the authority to authorize whether or not you hit the Pickle Button and the missile comes off the jet. In a free Fire Zone that decision plays with the pilot. So that authorization came out during the second and lasted for some time thereafter. And i truly believe it is a testament to the professionalism of the fighter pilots who manned the Combat Air Patrol over d. C. , no one was a pickle happy if you will. I think we all understood how serious that charge was. And what that kind of responsibility was. Not only the charge to protect the national capitol region, to protect the capitol of the free world. But also, the consequences if you did not make the right call. It gives me tremendous faith in the quality of our service men from the combat controllers, to the guys on the ground, to the fighter pilots and the war fighters doing the deed. Their level of Training And Professionalism that no mistakes were made. President george w. Bush and Air Force one coming in late afternoon on september 11, how unusual is it for you and other fighter jets to guide Air Force one into andrews . The president is constantly escorted. And Air Force one, there is always a level of safety. The types of escort and whatnot, that is up to the secret service, and part of their plan. It was unusual for us though because that is not a typical mission, we had never done anything like that before. It was fairly unusual. But to be honest those anticlimactic compared to what had been asked of us during the first mission. We had spent a sufficient amount of time during the course of my first and guys had taken off after me. By the time that evening came around, things were fairly quiet. Everyone was on the ground except the first responders. It really wasnt that busy when we were given the call. Host a couple personal questions did you talk to parents at what point on that day . Guest on my way home. Actually know it was after i got home. Host what was your conversation like what did you tell them . My mother was really emotional. My dad he is an old fighter pilot. He was asking more specific questions. They were both just glad that i was okay. Host that evening when he went to bed, to member what youre thinking and when did your Day End . Guest i think i probably got home sometime after 11 00 p. M. And i just fell into bed. Stuart you refer to yourself as a lucky, lucky penny, who coined that . Host needs. Guest you do not name yourself. When you become Combat Mission ready the guys in your Fighter Squadron will name you. Often times it might be a play off of your last name, like mine, lucky penny. I tell everyone better lucky than good if youre not good you better be lucky. Or it will be based off of some silly thing that you have done or acted buffoon or he. The name should be witty, they should be humbling, but it also has to be something that you would be proud of to stand up in front of your fellow fighter pilots and say hey my name is lucky penny ill be your mission commander today. Theres a lot of thought that goes into it. So when a direct result of 911 u. S. Involvement in iraq and later afghanistan, youve been to iraq twice under what circumstances customer. Guest the first time he went to iraq was in 2003 as part of the initial operations of iraqi freedom. We were part of the expeditionary wing and we were scud hunters. Host which means what . Guest we operated and a western iraq, and the western desert specifically to deter and suppress scuds that may hit our coalition partners or might be aimed towards israel. We also supported special operation forces who were doing movements throughout western iraq. As you look back ten years later on what happened, what you went there personally with the country went through, with the world went through, what do you think . Guest these obviously are my very personal opinions. As a member of our military, i truly believe there are some things that are more important than me. Which is why i am willing to, if necessary, sacrifice myself for the things we believe in as americans, our constitution , freedom, democracy, our rights, our way of life. And i know theres a certain amount of risk that is inherent in that, not necessarily as being a servicemember, but democracy is necessarily open. That is one of the cultural values that we have. And, i often wonder if, if we have forsaken some of what it means to be american. Some of what it means to be america and our response to try to assure our citizens of security. Like i said, ive got little girls and theres a Finding Nemo if youd never let anything happen to them then nothings going to happen to them. It is kind of a cute way to say, if we are going to be america, and everything that america stands for, we cannot, as citizens, expect our government to provide one 100 security. Now, i do believe there are smart things the government should do to mitigate risk. And it is important for our national interest. Have we been overzealous and have we gone, has the pendulum swung too far such that we are advocating our value set in terms of what does it mean to be american . And our desire to be totally safe. The america that i know and that i believe in is resilience, is courageous, is strong, and can rebuild. We saw that spirit after 911. But we also saw a desire from people to know they are perfectly safe. They are willing to give up some of those rights in some of those freedoms so they can be perfectly secure and perfectly safe. That is not the creators, resilient, america i know. So i think back to 911 and what it means to me personally , and how things have changed over the last decade and what is the america i want my daughters to grow up in, what is the kind of america i want them to be, i believe Theres Something special about us. I believe is truly the greatest nation on earth. I want them to have an open hearted pride in that. And that they are not afraid. And they will refuse to be cowed. I understand there is some risk involved in that. Im not advocating we foolish and accept unnecessary risks. But my father, grandfather, my mother, my grandmother, are part of the greatest generations and i think we are to ensure that acts like it. Your daughters or how old . Guest there five and seven now. Host so when they say mommy what was your role in 911 what you tell them . They really do not know what 911 is just yet. Host as they get older they will have questions. Guest i will say i was there. And if they are at the age and it is appropriate to talk more in depth regarding what my personal experience was. I think its also important to talk about, i mean obviously it was not just about me, what i did in my aircraft. The tremendous response of firefighters and the policeman, and just strangers helping strangers in new york, and here in d. C. I would want to use my story as a gateway to help them think about what everyone else went through on that day. This is, in many ways, our generations pearl harbor if you will. So i would want to give them some perspective on what was life like before . What was america like before . Once upon a time you could go through an airport and meet your family at the gate when they walked off the airplane. There are things in our daily lives is have fundamentally changed. I would want to give them an idea of what america was like before and how did this changes. Have them step outside of themselves and get into the shoes of other people. If my story can be a gateway into that, give them some perspective and help them identify more with our national experience international narrative of who we are and what it means to be american. We went major Heather Penny Air National Guard here in d. C. , thank you for sharing your story with us. Guest thank you. Did you know all of cspan american history programs are available to watch online . Go to cspan. Org History Type in your topic of interest in the search box. Thousands of programs look at the people and places that shaped our nation. All available online at cspan. Org history. Is you reflect on the morning of september 11, 2001, how did your day begin . I was in the navy defense. This was culminating in 18 month project. I been in the job for 17 and half months. My day began at the series of meetings and then i was with my boss in the meeting with