To do that you got somebody to tell you the location of the body that had been buried for years but your role as a prosecutor and you wrote specifically that the prosecutor knows, not a cop, united Fbi Agent coming out of forensic anthropologist, you are prosecutor, you know your role, William Barr never learned that lesson and then you go on to exemplify there. And what happened at the park in dc when prosecutors are protesters were clear about previous of told me about the dynamic, that relationship in particular, why you felt that relationship was so strong. I why you felt Bill Barr never learned that lesson as you did so is Mafia Case where we charged a bunch of guys with murder in springfield, massachusetts, next town over famous for the best both anybody is been there. Im not sure if you played in college. Oh yeah. [laughter] but they did the murder in springfield which we charge for and one guy flips and comes in and tells us the right about this in a book about he says, youre seven years ago, and he gives us the name and i dont know who it is but the Fbi Agent say oh my god this guy has been missing for seven years. They said yes, we buried him in the woods and i can tell you where we had to get a team ready, the Fbi Team with the jackets and tobacco and me and the other prosecutors are like, we should go. Like we wanted to go because it sounded so exciting that we knew in her heart of hearts that is the wrong thing for a prosecutor to do for a variety of reasons but probably the most important is you can make yourself a witness. Crime scene you see something in your off the case. Another Dude And Tv shows the prosecutors are there at the mercy. Real prosecutors do not do that and you have to know you will need to have a lot of Powers Prosecutor but youre not Fbi Agent or forensic expert, we sort of laid back in europe we did the right thing. Bill barr, ulf i felt almost a year ago now and ive yet part, protest happening around the country and protesters the white house and probably remember the seymour Bill Barr just like i am now, like in a business casual multi and walks onto the white House Lawn after meeting at the white house and gives an order and 70 whispers a video of this and said something to one of the commanders and then they clear the place using all sorts of overthetop Force And Pepper spray and worse on the assembled crowd. In my criticism of Bill Barr there is that is beyond his area of expertise come outside of his role, yes hes the Attorney General has the power to order these guys to do whatever he wants but he overstepped at any, he is a military guided by the way, immediately after that Donald Trump walks across that just cleared area to the church and theres been reported that his come out since then, couple of weeks ago. Where the department of the interior said that this was not planned to clear the way for Donald Trump however, with that report it does type Bill Barr directly to the order to clear the place. Some Bill Barr, some people said exonerate him, not at all not if you read the Report Fact is that what Bill Barr said to that person was on these people still going to be here when the president comes out in a couple of minutes which we knew the Attorney General says like that, when the clearing immediately follows in the present walkthrough, think it is fair to blame him for that. So that is sort of one of the lesser remembered i think anecdotes predict to me it exemplifies the arrogance of Bill Barr and his lack of humility which i talk about a lot because he never had to go through this morning process. Sometimes painful Burning Process that i had to the turnabout in the book. And i think one of the things that strikes me, not just reading the book but also drawing parallels to the real world is that we are in the midst of this Information Battle in trying, theres always the narratives of politics and to pretend that is able to really concerted efforts to throw off what should be plain information i think you laid it out maybe no more distinctly than where you talked about the Mueller Report. Obviously who could forget this. American history but especially dc history in regards to politics and specifically talking about the comparisons between the Mueller Reports can the Bill Barr for Page Summary that came out after that. I want to read a tonic on how you describe that, they powerfully dishonest, the history should remember it as a moment when he first subordinated at the Justice Department to the president s need. What is this Moment Stick out in your mind is that again, the first subordination printed. This is really Bill Barrs first, the crazy thing is is pretty told us all what he was going to do remember before his nominations, not five months before, when it became obvious that catullus after the midterm some of Bill Barr did the Audition Memo an unsolicited 19 Page Memo where he lays out is to the Justice Department, and to the white house, why the Muellers Investigation in Bill Barrs view, is fatally misconceived. Its a fatally means a dead, so Bill Barr is telling saw in advance, im going to kill this case and its exactly what he did. So the way he did it was so devious and dishonest and so manipulative. So the timeline, Bill Barr is basically the first person outside of Mueller Steam to get the Mueller Report, was a Friday Night and i remember, panic is cnn when we got and understood this was happening, march 22nd, 2 days later, sunday night, march 24th, Bill Barr issued a letter summarizing the principal conclusions, the key in his supporters say it was not a summary. You can call it whatever you want, it is a Fourpage Accounting of the Mueller Report and so powerfully dishonest, he leaves out all of the stuff about how russia, even actually one instance Bill Barr Custody Sentence and have a lives in the part of the race and theres no chargeable federal sentence in the first part was essentially mueller findings that russia commitment and committed crimes because they wanted from him and they knew about this and expected and had dozens and dozens of contact with them trying to coordinate and facilitate on it. So those powerfully dishonest to take out all of the and to only give us a back half is something that in a judge if i ever saw that as a prosecutor, i tear my head off rightly so. It would be out rages, and maybe even honestly fired if you try that as a prosecutor and then Bill Barr, and mueller not sitting clearly he gave us all of the evidence on obstruction but he never said and therefore find it, is the present under Policy Cant Charge them and i wouldnt want to slowly his reputation. Then Bill Barr gleefully jump into a phrase elected to me so i declare Note Obstruction to the state Bill Barr is never defended that determination and i became one of 2000 former prosecutors who shows under both parties to say there absolutely is obstruction here and Bill Barrs on the wrong, never seen a letter from 2000 door 20 and a prosecutor saying that. Heres the thing that people may forget that is so deceptive, Bill Barr took todays to read the whole 448 report which ended mindy remember how long Bill Barr held onto that report and kept away from the public in congress, 27 days and during that key 27 day time, the whole narrative was gone. Trump said im exonerated and all the people in follower said he was exonerated and by the time he came out 27 days later, it was very crystallized in his reason for withholding it was that he said he had to redact and cross are classified. It takes a little bit of time but when youre in a d, you can have a command in your Tire Power of this, you should get that done in a week max. By the way of the federal judge later found that it was a bogus thing and he didnt even reject it properly the first place. That is so manipulative and it gets even worse when remember Robert Moeller gave Bill Barr summaries, Sixpage And Sevenpage summaries that had already scrubbed and Bill Barr if he said he wanted them to take out the blood. This just reminder how manipulative and dishonest on and honestly i think hes saved President Trumps height on that predict. Anything to be very good as you know that Bill Barr with his help, he was able to turn a lot of these controversies on the head and create them as weapons so the Mueller Report became the fake Russia And Use that in campaign rallies and slogans to raise money and so on and so forth. So tomorrow your prosecutorial anecdotes, you use a lot of mobster metaphors, trump is the head of the van and where does Bill Barr fit into this metaphor and wife. Is gonna be, is on point but that is a counsel i guess translates as he does more than just give Trump Advice he carries out some of the dirtiest deeds that trump has for him and the thing is, there are many instances were Bill Barr did something overly political but he never spoke with at present about it printed like President Mark Trump is tweeting youre doing things the very next day. The roger stone case, like so roger stone in the Sentencing Recommendation comes out from the prosecutors for people try to convict him predict the approved all of the way as high as they had to go and Justice Department up to the u. S. Attorney and that night Donald Trump tweeted that this is now great, a miscarriage of and an hour later Bill Barr takes the steps of undermining his own prosecutors and reside from the case are from the doj. And then Bill Barr said i didnt know and i never saw the president s tweet. And again i cant disprove that but i very dubious audit so in the mob bosses, Donald Trump does not have to calling people to say, theres understanding. They get into a flow are instances that there are explicit things between the two. But i think that is close of an analogy that i can make it to the mob world. With that relationship. Of course, and one of the think so, i want to give away too much in the book so i will stop pulling from too many exurbs. But one of the things in outlook of the big picture here, so part of why i like this book so much is that you see a lot of the real world the Curse News Cycle and the current world in the time capsule of the Bill Barr rain as Attorney General and during the trump years. In one of the more pertinent new stories that has come out im imagining since your this book, as part of the eg carroll saga, she gives President Trump Rate in the 90s but more pertinent Entered Defamation in 2019, during his administration. There was a question whether that suspense would still hold up in the President Trump was out of office and the new administration was coming in and even though a federal court said this is essentially bogus, the Merrick Garland Administration said well, because this happened during trumps administration, we are going to take this on. Defending President Trump. What does that say to you. So ive been critical of America Garland in a price on some other things but this i disagreed with. Some very critical in the book so Bill Barr determination with Donald Trump came over to the Justice Department i would like you to represent me in this matter. Defamation and termination for Bill Barr is must conduct in the official course on the president s duty. The way it was a find me is the prosecutor as if you indicted somebody because of something you said in court, will be covered by doj. But if you get a Bar Fight or something you wont be covered by doj. And Bill Barr look to that determined that Donald Trumps comments, that was part of the presidency and i was very outspoken at the time and that was absolutely wrong, the wall the present has a very broad a job description, they can to be part of it. I felt vindicated a couple weeks or months later when a federal judge who appeared in front of, took the same vision as an outcome of the doj coming cannot do this case because it can possibly be within the scope of the residency to defame somebody who is accused of assault predict and under Bill Barr, that Doj Appeal to, and when Merrick Garland comes in, and said we will continue this appeal keep fighting. I think it was wrong. And i think also America Garland it missed an opportunity to say that we are different, not doing things this way and stretching the law does prosperous extreme just in order to protect Donald Trump. I think what Merrick Garland was doing is searching for the path of least resistance the path of least political turbulence. I think his approach to sitting doj back on its path was to make a few waves as possible. And pick his few fights as possible i think that was mistaken i think he needed to aggressively undo some of the words that they can be undone but to undo some of the worst abuses of the Bill Barr administration. Well see how it comes out on appeal but i think its a missed opportunity by America Garland. In his right after that, maybe hours. As usual, good to go. And so court of the other things i wanted to ask about is im fascinated with this context of the endgame and we seen it with multiple other Trump Administration officials either into the time in the administration at or after they resigned and they say know what, along i was not game and i push internally you just didnt see it. One of the interesting things is that after President Trump lost the election and was cleared, especially while it seemed that Bill Barr was changing his tune a little bit. He was not going along with the president every decision. And over the course of the administration and it specifically, we have spoken now to Bill Barr being in the news, recently an article reeves quoted saying that i had suspicions all along that Donald Trumps Voter Fraud claims were both should despite the opposite. So my question to you as you initially recommend this Book Book that it is too late for that, why is it too late and what can you do if anything. I dont criticize everything that Bill Barr did in the book in one of the things that i said that he did that was important in the right thing to do was when finally, i will get to that, came forward in december, 2020 and said we the Justice Department found no evidence of the Election Fraud and this is three to half half weeks after the election now and is clear to any rational non rooted Giuliani Person that it is over. And Bill Barr is certainly smart enough to see that in the Donald Trump numbered in days are numbered. And if he was go for Bill Barr and he was asked about michael flynn case, he said with a sort of a slight chuckle, history is written by the winners. By this point he knows is not a winner not quite be writing a history and i believe he is trying to salvage any bit of reputation and avoided being sort of group ten with rudy giuliani in the city towels and others. The true rudis. The problem with Bill Barrs little image rehab a tour in this article in the atlantic is a talk about that and Bill Barr tells us the story of standing up and i dont know what happened behind closed doors and the problem is the Bill Barr completely in the article completely omits and we can forget is that for months leading up to the election, Bill Barr was one of the biggest cheerleaders for the Election Fraud Conspiracy Theory and he was one of the biggest spreaders perpetrators amplifiers of the big lie. And he did it as Attorney General i give you and i like this out, he didnt interview with npr when he talked about the massive threat of fraud by the way, i talked before about the responsiveness and shortly after Donald Trump started 20 things to be everyday about this Bill Barr picks it up and he did this document the threat and then run an article shortly after that we allowed at the Attorney General to tell falsehoods on our air and then they coded actual expert the things he was saying and i quote, prosperous, false and my favorite, they were just nuts. Npr, i love that. And then he goes from the congress and he does the same kind of garbage in congress called him out and you know this and he says, i have no proof but is just common sense for you to me to get, if i made a serious assertion in court and the judge said how you know that and i said, having proof, is just obvious kind of thing. I would been thrown out and he came on cnn. In september and was very combative and a massive threat and there was nothing he could do about it and then he told, we indicted the case of 1700 false ballots were recovered in texas and watching this and thinking wow, okay, that is substantial like get ready to hear about this. It was state persecutors it was one single fraudulent Ballot Modesty of gw, Ed Markey back and issue a correction you what they did, their statement said some Lowlevel Staffer got it wrong in a letter. If this was our case any person who wants a real truth, they get on the phone to make sure. Those three instances and other with the mall report, first impressions are so powerful that he is out there using Doj Seal to fan the flames of this thing. Its better me to the back later than if he didnt yes it is but it did so much damage of what he did early on that i dont think you could forget it. And posted the q a if you have questions, post them in the q a the chat. I think last 20 minutes or so we will try to take the Viewers Q A. Will open those questions have been five or six minutes and now the time is a time to put the man. Will start reveling them often. Now this ones a little bit more pushing about a little bit forward obviously major event and ensure you wouldve written about extensively. On january 6 on Insurrection Day at the u. S. Capitol. So obviously hundreds of indictments stemmed from what happened at the Capitol And Blame comes from all sides from President Trump and others that were involved that day and even Bill Barr, of course at this point. And notably after being out of the administration and President Trump that he committed a betrayal of his office but i am curious based on everything that you everything, all that you started with Bill Barr was asked for and how with an Attorney General Bill Barr have handled that day under President Trump. That is a great question. So the Attorney General on the day was jeffrey who had been Bill Barrs longtime deputy and Bill Barr left shortly before christmas. And Jeffrey Rosen was mia that day. I cant really. Ellie what Bill Barr wouldve done the day but i think that Bill Barr, give them enough credit for being rational enough and unwilling, he crossed an awful lot of lines, blinds thati would never thought i would never seen an Attorney General crossed but not Everyone Freedom willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and that he wouldve done the right thing and certainly not disappeared. I think Attorney General has a job and that is to get in touch with the president and tell him like a lot of people are urging him to do, and equipment of all statement to call this thing off. But some of the blame sits on Bill Barr and the tendency to underwrite Bill Barrs Danger Level because unlike some of the obvious rudis and the brooks and the Donald Trump tutors out there yelling to the crowds group. Even others, very aggressive in your facing Bill Barr has a softspoken manner and he looks the part of the sort of lawyer and hes not a Fight Picker and not upon prayer. But because he carried the weight of the Justice Department behind what he did because it was so devious and sort of did things under the veneer of intellectual law. I argued in the book, a lot of what he did was even more dangerous than some of the sort of unhinged rhetoric that you year for more visible trump supporters. Of course, he has working and actually takes us more is more powerful position. For the last question that i want to ask will start with questions after this one. Weve seen the impact of Bill Barr on the Justice Department but the everlasting question as many came from the Trump Administration is what about the time versus what when you look at history. So my question is, how did Bill Barr impacted Justice Department as a whole, do you think his impact is permanent pre