part at the end and find a history virtual martin luther king jr. day annual virtual offerings for unit there's a wealth of material and educational resources on doctor king available online. i am from gdp, i'm thrilled to be hosting this conversation with charles black and the reverend doctor otis, to friends and colleagues of doctor king. and paul and the reverend here with us to talk about a little-known but extremely consequential event in the life of doctor king . and these are stephen and paul kendrick targeted and for the large on montgomery before that i have a dream speech in washington and before, the letter from the birmingham jail . doctor king was sentenced to four months of hard labor by the county judge stemming from a traffic violation. nine days, the race to save martin luzern king jr and when the election is a new book which details that people in the political are aligned to free doctor king is the same time encouraged the black vote in the water support for john kennedy in their triumph over richard nixon and the closest residential election of the 20th century . could purchase the book directly from a cappella books, there's a link at the jet to the right of your screen. there's also a link at the atlanta history center web black. entering is the right now. it looks great. and as we are talking, please submit your questions using the q&a feature the bottom of the screen freedom going to try to integrate as any of them as possible as time allows. it could take a long time to list the accomplishments of our distinguished panels on going to convince and please forgive me than anything that the mystery threat . doctor otis jr is a theologian, pastor and graduate . is recognized by the americans most influential religious leaders. in a hero the civil rights movement. he served as regional director of the sdlc's and we should add in georgia native party to welcome to you sir. >> thank you. >> thank you for being here . mr. charles black is also malone where he was one of only eight students taught by doctor king targeted and he earned the nickname charles sit down black for direct action protest to desegregate atlanta businesses and for voting rights. he continues to inspire student activism and maybe the only person be called a known jeep by killer mike. thank you so much for being with us. virginia: his articles have appeared in a range of publications for the new york times for the washington post and talking points memo. and paul recruited and developed talent for the obama white house and is now an active professor at national lewis university in chicago. nine days since third book co-authored with his father. and reverend stephen is senior minister at first church and unitarian church paredes published a novel and illustrated and three history books with his son paul. douglas and lincoln and now nine days. thank you so much for being with us today. >> thank you very much virginia were looking very much forward to somebody martin luzern king day. the things auspicious yes . i feel so lucky they contributed to our knowledge and they can help tell the story. we are so pleased that they work with us today. virginia: there's so much tahir. but reference, since you knew doctor kane. how do you like to celebrate the monster luther king holiday. >> in any ways. stephen: one through trying to tell the story of his impact in our lives on the movement, the america and the world history. to trying to communicate. the summer holiday in the tradition of the saints. it is a call to duty to action and commitment. in recommitment and lifting up our accomplishments and yet giving a mirror what has not been done. and it has to be done in all of the challenges and the issues in the agonies that we face at this very hour. so it is a learning from the life of doctor king targeted spring motivated by the work and also being challenged to get involved deeply involved. recommit ourselves and also to pass on to the next generation as best we can. in the beauties and the challenge, the commitment. as well and some of the pain and the ugliness that they must grapple with as well. virginia: poll thank you for being part of that service for all of us today. how about you charles black. you were told by doctor kane. i would love to hear what you are reflecting on this day . >> only thinking back to moments when i was in kings company for matters and centered around him. i was pleased that he called me double black targeted some students in the class he called the mr. ms. but he called me double black. i think about moments when the birmingham church. and i wrestled with that to make that day. i was in a press conference with king about that bombing. i think about things that he'd like to do what he lives for the barbecue. and names now for him martin luther king. i reflect on these day of his funeral but i believe marco for the funeral procession . the organized by the thousand marshals to be stationed all of the way between tomorrow's campus into the baptist church. and for unincorporated to control the trafficking in my car and drive by notified that the procession was on the way and the like. so it's that kind of thing left on friday think about monday in his class when we are discussing plato's and philosophies . and he not get a little bit upset about that. be more suited for different things as craftsmen, some soldier some as philosophers. the philosophers those days are combination of wiseman and scientists . there were the smart people freighted this is that only philosophers should rule. that is a good idea, he should not have stupid people in charge. everybody have a chance to participate. and i've often said that if you been around today, he would agree with me plato and socrates. that's a reflection on a day like this comes around. also making date and they had a parade in march. my granddaughters now 36 and 37 years old. she got tired when she was get bring up and rub my shoulders. the very first king march. i'll let you in on the secret. the first king gala the family in downtown atlanta and i was there . in my wife. i was backstage. i was back there with rosa parks and my wife and i were standing in a circle my wife is going crazy over this person i was going crazy over that person . but she hasn't goo eyes of there. she grabbed my arm and my champagne went over rosa parks . i kind of disappeared back into the crowd a little bit . virginia: who could blame rosa parks for not being amused. >> any years later, i ended up adding that into the rosa parks story and cbs . and she would've vetoed that she had been around. as i poured champagne oliver beautiful blue dress . virginia: they want to know how you transition from civil rights activist to celebrated after . you effectively combine the two. >> is the same thing . is a form of activism. i get an opportunity to play folks than i ain't. this what actors like to do. especially the bad guy. or prison said that you can look bad to dirty and all that . how any opportunities to say some . . serious messages from my acting experience . diamond in our hundred different projects, movies and tvs and series of the like. so find it an extension but also very much involved in activism continuously. undocumented students given to great institutions and sometimes free rides. can you get permanent homes for kids from ethiopian india and other places. south american the like. virginia: let's get this book because there is an activist and spoke but when across in such a bold way. the book is about the incarceration in 1960 doctor king . "nine days" . is a monumental event in his life. the mid- previous telling about putting the focus on the political fallout from 1960 election. in the kennedys specifically at the center. as we begin, lonnie kane, the leader of the movement was absolutely instrumental in this. raven, you work with him and how would you describe with him. >> he was a phenomenal person. he was quick and movement and action. there is about something that a lot of people did not know. honey king was the time of the movement, full-time student. a full-time employee of the united states post office. and full-time husband. and a full-time chair of the committee on appeals for human rights. the student city movement of atlanta. now if you think of those for phenomenal assignments and commitments and yet somehow he was able to function and manage responsibly in each one of those categories. a full-time student. a full-time employee with united states post office husband and a leader of the atlanta student movement. and with those for magnificent tremendous responsibilities, he seemed to give full energy and inspiration to each assignment. i shudder to think. [inaudible]. when did he sleep or when did he eat . and yes, he is one of the most energetic ready to move in ready to act person in the movement. games not just an activist a presence in energy. he was an activist leader in the movement . also advantages. had grown up in the ebenezer baptist church. he hadn't known doctor martin luther king senior from childhood . had known doctor marvin luther king jr from childhood. the marvelous generation seniors and senior leaders in the african-american community. he had met through his association with the butler street ymca. so he brought all of these experiences and qualities and contacts to the leadership of the atlanta student movement. and i'm thinking this might be a selfish thought. this may be atlanta movement unique. but we had a tear i should also mention that he did military service in the united states navy. where he deliberately, the military said this. in order to finance his college education is a felt that bernard was too much for his mother. and there was a path that he took to further his higher education education . is a just a few of the things that we can say about a friend and brother light on the king party did not sure charles can add a few things here . virginia: them interjected you don't mind for a second because i think it's repeated in the book, then he heard about the greensboro lunch synods and he decided, let's just do it make this happen. i kind of started the atlanta student movement there with god . but he was the man of action and following through that enery . but both were very strategic movements that they had students consider day in the day that they asked doctor king to come and participate in this lunchtime sitting in atlanta at the department store . students setting up following fun they organize price to get their land checkpoints freedoms a strategic thing . media are asked doctor king to join with him. knowing they would get arrested to . charles black, what was the ultimate quote while there. >> movement had started the publication of an appeal for human rights. back in february of 1960. full-page ad in the atlanta journal. inspected by the new york times. as a full-page ad free of charge for he is also running in the around the world and here in atlanta. it's, like facebook . and it was on march 15th of that year predictably more in october now. in the sit in was october 19th. so the movement have been going on for a good while. folks wanted to go back to those stores and buy stuff. the regular job this thing over and we needed to spark for the continuity of our movement . and we were also aware that is about two weeks from election. the president of the united states. as of this was all very intentional. for background purposes, it's important to understand the doctor king had not been involved in any of the civil rights activity in atlanta during this time. at the request of his father and established by the black leadership. they said we got this. we don't need jr here leading us. and he agreed to that . so it was after he had been arrested for driving a car without a drivers license and driver's license plates. it was a slight woman in the front seat with him. in the white woman was lillian smith. that's why he was stopped for unit this was the pretext and then it was about the drivers license . so it was probated out of the court room by the senators and the judge said mitchell, he sat sideways on the bench. ... ... >> and was taken down and nominated 330 in the morning in a paddy wagon with the latest german shepherd. and he said that the most afraid he is ever been in his life, he knew the reputation all aggressive so we know that was the purpose. and the kennedys we can talk about that in a minute. >> it is channeling this account that he gets arrested on october 19 that's day number one is a funny king and brought to the fulton county jail you were in jail that day although i understand you went to the other one it was brand spanking new and it was national news and the students major the cameras were there when he was arrested not put in handcuffs or a paddy wagon by driven and the sheriff's car. and then to be released but they held him back because of this outstanding warrant that judge mitchell made sure that was affected because and what happened very intense and astounding to read if you have any thoughts of finding that transcript hasn't been produced anywhere else the what you saw happening in this trial. >> take it. those that briefly have been opened in the library the old beat up paper copies were copies of the trial and you can see the genius that lonnie had described to us and then if they just focused on the kennedys with that nixon respect the richer story of the atlanta student movement and what it is like to talk about to have that experience and then to build a movement and them him connecting us with incredible people like reverend moss. so we have a sense it is a story with characters that need to be centered and hallowell was one of them. having that trial to add to this story of that moment and knowing the fear all the students who are with us today knowing that he was being sent to that dangerous place certainly when you read the transcript, the admiration they had for their lawyer but he was so strong and commander of the courtroom you can see him putting segregation on trial even though they didn't want to hear it at that point. >> we also mentioned a couple of weeks before the national election vice president richard nixon running against john kennedy. they were trading off in the polls day by day there was no room for any mistake. there was a lie that play can you talk and those dynamics of the national work with those politicians here in georgia caddying national media to have a black civil rights leader out of jail have a question here from my daughter georgia * the book tells the story from jfk regarding king's incarceration. >> thank you so much for writing to us this is a big part the democratic politicians in atlanta they were on the kennedy side at that point where is the party of lincoln so you know who wants to pick this up how this maneuvering went on specifically in the conversations with jack kennedy. >> i want to answer that question but let's also take a step back beyond that. yes it was always so close election and neither candidate wanted to talk about race that's the last thing they wanted to do. so working to arrested was the classic october surprise students understood that but he made clear all along he was there to support the students he looked at king and others as the leader made it clear to reporters and historians later he was there to support them and a mentor in the sense someone to inspire their efforts they saw the surge the energy of the southern sort and movement living in the era of black lives matter it's important to remember that is really young people we are talking about king himself is only 31 years old. so king is supporting even younger people taking this incredible energy surging across the south and he wants to support them so yes he was arrested and he finds himself in a perilous situation. the kennedy campaign is a mindset that's very difficult for us to deal with but at that point the back row is up for grabs and by no means was kennedy assured of it and track teams looked at with some suspicion. >> she voted against the 57 civil rights bill. >> nx and put a lot of time and effort to befriend keying and endorse nixon in the day before his son's arrest. so by no means was say slamdunk but yet nixon was silent his advisors cannot seem to reach him and motivate him and really this story is about the modern world we have inherited because it is there that nixon begins at insidious creation of the strategy to be in the republican party but the black voters began to sense it is with the democratic party be well advised to give their hearts and energy and it begins with the kennedys reaching out. >> let me. opinion back but michael asks keying was labeled of the martyr a victim of racist southern justice did you know he could face person with the traffic ticket to what extent does that provide a way to put the justice system on trial in the court of public opinion? >> keying testified under oath he didn't understand he was on probation. and then in the jfk library interviews at the same that we take him at his word on that part clearly there were a great dangers and sometimes we forget how radical that notion was to put yourself into southern jail in 1960 so they were forcing politicians to talk about civil rights for him to be arrested. i think he was very wary but did not expect mitchell to do what he did. >> you want to pick up on the conversation with the kennedy campaign there's a lot with those democrats and that is part of the story that what leads to poverty is a story of the georgia democratic party i don't want to give too much away but it shows there is a lot more than just the moral interest but the political interest of the democratic party to get the problem solved. but if they force the situation and the team on the kennedy campaign involved in that situation and then you learn how the back channels of john and bobby work with vanderburg to get keying out. >> in fact they go rogue to achieve their ends and there are so many different machinations but it is so interesting how to get things done and questioning the commitment to the civil rights of the kennedys. how would you describe that? how do the kennedys really feel their commitment they think of civil rights is more of a problem to be handled than a real moral commitment at that point. >> years later at a conference with the mlk junior center at the leadership of mrs. caretta scott king he made a statement in his address that i have never forgotten and i think the audience might have missed the impact and he said doctor king educated my family in the area of civil and human rights. i hope somewhere in the keying papers that speech might be recorded but to make that kind of statement publicly to me was historic and memorable. >> of course it's pointed out in the book and something we know about the kennedys they grew up in massachusetts and they experienced tremendous president most intriguing ironies as the catholic one of the panelists can discuss it even though kennedy extended himself to do a great service during the time mlk at that point martin luther king named after martin luther michael. he is a protestant and said he wasn't sure to vote catholic for president in the way that action that he indicated that he would. and that we were not so much where thinking of the previous arrest. and to pay more attention to the movement and influence the presidential election and with application as something as a shock to a lot of us but martin was convinced to go but that service is you cannot lead from the back so he would persuade martin luther but as indicated knowing keying since he was 18 your on - - 18 years old and they knew each other and lonnie sleeps king and he could talk to him as a friend about these matters. and also to persuade him based on familiarity and principle so when you talk about mob violence lonnie keying was an outstanding running back but also was the championship boxer. and then have had many opportunities to block somebody out and then do that. but i was directly behind him. but he did not retaliate a single touch without a doubt that he was born looking up at the bottom whose bedroom is a pantry in the south. so the reason he went into the service working two and three jobs to put him through college and he thought that was unfair to her and he dropped out of college so he wouldn't have to do that when he came back he was older than her because he spent the time in the navy. i just wanted to throw that in. >> i just want to say you have to be careful what sermon you listen to. when lonnie quoted donnie king that was tough. one of the pleasures of writing this book is of course a day like today being able to sit in lonnie keying his living room and hear the story better sadness is that we cannot show the book with him and wish record. he was with us today and another thing that we missed again and is a friend and a neighbor of ours and we got to spend eight or ten hours interviewing but that is the original seat of the book and at the age of 92 on mlk day two years ago we can get the book to him either but we think about lonnie and want to pay them to order today on martin luther king day for sure. >> also i would like to say the enthusiasm and courage and risk the students are willing to take, that's true but when you were asking the doctor keying could make a tremendous sacrifice. he was married and mrs. king was pregnant, the copastor and president with the southern christian leadership conference but has and invitation from the president of the newly independent state of nigeria he was preparing to answer. those pressing responsibilities and commitments we were asking him to make a sacrifice that noticed it was making because no other student carried that kind of total responsibility and doctor king said yes. after so in depth discussion and when he said yes he went all the way. >> that's interesting what comes up in the book a critical point in his life pretty one years old and has been at this and the movement. >> he made a huge impact in his twenties now he's looking at his thirties where does the movement go from here where does he go from here? it's interesting to hear your viewpoint when he was in his life and the divisions he was making then and the impact and it's terrifying looking at jammed up and the georgia court on a traffic violation technically probation but part of the state prison where paper for off the map in the middle of the night with the german shepherd next to him. where she wasn't his life and what he thought and he cannot see her powerless is a brief letter that i consider one of the most prophetic statements a personal handwritten letter from the state prison. and then to start off with the salutation and then to start off with the salutation and then talks about the conditions under which she is imprisoned and then which says i have the faith to believe that the suffering that somehow said to make atlanta better city but just how i do not yet know but do have the faith to believe that it will. >>. >> over into the letter anticipating and not the immediate release to give mrs. king a list of things to bring him to make a visit the following sunday bring the following books for use one and two of the theology and stanley jones writing and gives the title and he tells her to bring 18 of his sermons. to look at his desk and a book titled how to increase your power and then describes the book and to bring a bible and a radio. the revelation of how he was planning to spend but to me that letter is sacred literature and if we are to reopen the canon to be included with the personal and intellectual feelings to the overall experience there are so many things this book gives to us that it is a classic that belongs in our homes and libraries and classrooms and everywhere that people have the mind to know and grow. >> and king was going to be there for months. he had no idea he would be out after nine days. that is how he was preparing. that is how he was preparing way of what surprised me in every the college library and to make sure we did that in the book that no school is better represented been doing to be bolder in our own lives and then the other atlanta university's school we all can just be doctor king to be outside the comfort zone to speak out against things that are wrong and that is something certainly we learn telling the story from the incredible anchorages he rose. >> and now to bring in a student activist a lot of credit goes to get a keying free with sargent shriver and the groundwork laid by the atlanta student movement the bike to work on into the conversation the person keeping that flame alive and 18 -year-olds senior where the trailer procedures took place when advocated to remove the confederate monument the summer and those are the primary first to agree to install the budget of 1960. >> thank you for having me. >> and march of this year maybe there are some delays sizes (-left-parenthesis people know what happened to doctor keying in your hometown? >> the story was in that happened in my community in which doctor keying sent him and happened right behind my school actually produces the longest time i had no idea this had occurred. never learned about it in school soon i was approached about the story and i did research around everything around that i thought that we need to place a marker that impacted the election into the present day. >> charles park use with us today and mentioned earlier and others that you invited the city commission to advocate for a marker cap use just talking about what made you think this coder should happen? in the amount of student support that i got and those organizers was admirable and then we have the support of the city and the schools and then to push the story out people are ready to listen to the history. >> so now considered a liberal stronghold from the 19 sixties as a result of the protest following george leads murder and now we know more african-americans voted in the georgia general and runoff elections than ever before so where is the activism now? word you have to go now and where is the work to be done quick. >> it is in small group conversation and with the policies discriminated against people but there are structures of white supremacy and other forms in the mindset and school system and workplace. and having those difficult conversations that were never had until recently where we can come to an understanding and inform each other experiences and differences. >> and will be just like her when i grew up. and then to this outstanding student and then to say to us our struggles are not in vain. the next generation will be doing terrific things and members of the generation are doing great things here and now. thank you. >> picking up about the women, they made the movement and to pontificate there is work to get done the women will be there. lonnie king's mother said him when he was concerned if a movement has support among students his mother suggested he get the ladies from spelman involved and the men for more house would come they were always a part of the leadership of the movement. but there were a lot of women who made a difference. but the war black lives matter making them movement happen. and the friend of mine was one of the leaders of the r kelly movement and that is significant and i mentioned earlier the undocumented students with college education so if you walk up to them and get women involved and let them leave and get out of the way and genesis you were talking about conversation and the historian taylor branch says the difference between 60 years ago and now is they were so overt and offensive and evident and now they are subtle and quiet and insidious that's true even if a week and a half ago we saw a confederate flag in the middle of the capital of the united states. maybe it's not so subtle after all. there is a lot of heart opening we have to do. is not all about laws or justice but realization if we have this country for everyone or not. so the work you all are doing is wonderful and that energy is exactly what it is about in the end. it's not what happened 61 years ago but what can happen now. because people showed us a path and the process. this is our work. part of this is so great. >> i want to point out was so honored to be on the panel to meet so many civil rights leaders to get me to the place that i could be to empower me so the next generation can continue the good fight. >> kennedy wine by only 100,000 votes and this was the first time the networks you seen project shoes on - - projections to predict the outcome and cbs and be predicted nixon word when 100 / one and get 459 electoral votes that kennedy wine with 302. so what made the difference when the kennedys intervened to get keying out of jail his campaign published the document known as the blue bomb was on blue paper and it was distributed in all the major cities with a large black population. again to believe two weeks before the election and kennedy ended up winning. especially in black churches. >> less than one vote per precinct. it is that close. one guy won by 7 million votes those that are denying the election took place. >> and one of the great genius pieces of political machination how to tell a story with white voters not being any wiser but the story of what the community did. certainly it is helpful to see the minister of the church horrible but wednesday of this week something wonderful will take place. the inauguration of president-elect biden and vice president-elect terrace. that is wonderful but between the great and the wonderful often falls the horrible and we must never be consumed with the horrible we can never ignore it. but we must constantly look and lift up the great and wonderful taking place of the horrible. that is exactly what we saw in october of 1960. >> i think we lost charles for the moment but you are the person who came and counseled students who had been arrested at fulton county jail they thought their face seeing 18 months of charges just bringing their toothbrushes with them so how did you counsel them how did you cancel people who are fighting the fight now arrested protesting the murderer george floyd for example for equal rights for trans people or something like that? what would you say to them now? is at the same sentiment? >> we constantly have to lift up the great and the wonderful and to see the horrible that is taken place as a challenge but it must not overwhelm because it is always present that which is great and something wonderful that's always in the making, even when we cannot see it. charles mentioned earlier the leadership and the courage of the female students and one of the sperm and students in the county jail sleeping on the top of a double punk and then raping the woman underneath and then went on about his business without any kind of consequences. so the dangers and the snares faced in the movement and constantly by the women in the movement and the sexism within the movement, and yet they made the greatest contributions. there is a whole story of mary lou hamer and we do not have time to give the stories but they must be told and retold. the sacrifices and the suffering and the leadership , without the women in the african-american community that will have no movement. and we can repeat that over and over. arkansas. mississippi montgomery missiles the parks. and throughout the movement that has been the sole and back home to keep alive working day and night to make all kinds of sacrifices. and the stories must be told and retold in a much wider sense and they are beginning to be told that they must return to the present and future generation in a more dynamic way. >> she died at the age of 25 and she should have been in the hospital the is something. twenty-five years old and sacrificed her life because. >> ultimately martin luther king sacrificed his life. i will love you to contribute tells me close, we spoke to andrew young one of the people doctor king ever talked about in those dark hours and the charles mentioned earlier are more and then he ever had been in his life and that may have brought out the best in john kennedy but the cisco that never healed he also speculated he became comfortable with the idea of his own death that transform him as a leader? what does it mean for the movement going forward? >> and one of my trips to atlanta this is something and those that he never joked about, but he had to go through and he came to terms with that call dark night of the soul but then from there he told going to birmingham where he would change so many hearts and minds that those that changed doctor king. they were inspired by him and then to give us our legacy to keep going on. talk about the power of organizing. there is much more to do but i think for us on this day may recognize the heroes of martin luther king and people dive into the story because it helps you to understand how the king that we celebrate and recognize how he became that king and as such a crucial part we cannot thank them enough. >> and a number of people have commented and so proud of genesis and this young lady and also a lot of thanks for the comments i'm sorry i didn't get to your questions but thank you for the enormously important discussion i am grateful for activism and commitment and devotion to be in service together they also for me and all of us as well. thank you and the reverend, great pleasure to speak with you today. thank you very much. >> you write off all moderator with a passion for histories. thank you. >> nine days the race to say mlk junior little life we encourage you to purchase the book from local bookseller you can purchase with a cappella books or go to a cappella books directly. we thank you for tuning in. you can find resources for the family as well as more information related to student movement and more at the atlanta history center.com this will be posted and featured on c-span take a look at other upcoming virtual author events at atlanta history center.com. thank you for being with us today and also plenty of others left in honor of doctor king thank you for being with us today >> and harry truman got the word from the british they code no longer defend greece or turkey against soviet aggression and the stolen design, he rose having to deal with the republican congress that had just got elected. congress placed a disaster in 1946 the first midterm while president. and with cancer back in power for the first time in 14 years. anybody that has spread not only from republicans spread people inside his own office. so republicans have had enough to kowtow to democratic presidents the past 14 years and the last thing we wanted to do was to help fdr successor for the amount of and that's pretty entire existence so republicans for the most part isolationists especially in peace time. i will send nation and was exhausted harry truman gets the message he has to engage a republican house and senate and the chairman of the foreign affairs committee traditionally and isolationist but he also worked all of the republicans and it was a constant effort to on the republicans and explain to them they could no more of these stalin's designs on western europe so that they had the same one from ten years earlier. so anybody that follows the history of the. after riverside in 1918 woodrow wilson came back to get the united states involved in the league of nations with the republican senate wilson's efforts to get involved in the league of nations. so to trade back into the fortress of america mentality that allows adolf hitler to build the strength know septembt 1989 world war ii again and we need the consequences of that. so what are the things with such great detail is the efforts to compromise he showed how to do it by surrounding himself with the best and the brightest of his time. the wisemen as well to isaacson called him. secretary of state was general marshall is the allied for victory of world war ii the undersecretary of state, probably the most capable diplomat and washington dc at the time. had george and then the book that designer in europe and also the need for the united states to engage in a containment policy. and then they knew stalin will also. was hard work with republicans but also surroundings of the great team that actually allowed him it was a form policy and allow him to do

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