Here at georgetown, the institute for migration. Spent a great partner for several years now. We welcome them in and thank you for all of their collaboration here. Let me remind you the webinars being recorded. Will post this event on our event page and a day or two. If you preregister for the event you will get an email with a link to the video as well. This time i think we are all zoom veterans. Just in case your memories are not what they should be, you notice on the tabs at the bottom of the screen theres q a. As a good deal of time at the end begin submitting your questions as soon as they pop into your head. Do not wait until the end that gives us a chance to sort through them but the best ones to jessica. Im so pleased that jessica can join us. Shes written for the york times, the atlantic, the washington post, los angeles times, teen vogue, among other places preach as a phd in literature from the university of texas and she served as a melon writing fellow and interim Writing Center director at southwestern university. She spent more than a decade working in austin texas and is the cofounder of the hill drivers a nonprofit that provide supplemental income for burmese refugee artisans for the past seven years. At the end, just got remind meet will give your website address of people can contribute to some of that ongoing work they will know how to reach you. So jessica welcome. Its certainly good to have you. Guest im so excited to be here. I will say to hill tribe are actually ended will we got a job part so we started and finished are nonprofit so they could all have employment. So fyi, appreciate the shot out though. Ive lots of ideas for other places if we want to talk about it. Sue and lets make sure we circle back to that at the end. This is a remarkable book. Many of the reviews have noted that in some ways there are really three stories here. We tell the story of two women in their brave and remarkable journeys. But resettlement into the United States. You also manage to give us a history of refugee policy which is very, very complex but its a very important thread. I guess my first question is, what drew you to these women and their stories into this amazing messy intersection of policy run global refugees . Think that such a great question. I think you in particular understand is someone who works at the center of these things that are often tagged or categorized in very separate ways. But really come together in a beautiful its both messy and also gorgeous to see the intersection of these things. And so i am particularly grateful to the center for peace, religion and World Affairs that i get the right order . So having me today in part one of things im most excited about is to have a conversation that sits at the intersection of so many different things. Just to make a very brief while as getting my nonprofit i worked with burmese refugee artisans here in austin trent austin. Funk had two career tracks. As of my professors at ut were very concerned about my focus on things outside of what is often a very limited and narrow field. And yet when i was writing the whole time i kept thinking and focusing on issues of representation here in poetry in the middle of the 20th century. This is how the u. S. In brazil, and having very similar conversations about how we are betraying a refugees impaired with the rhetoric run refugees looks like. I annoyed to have the sinks would come together and toes running a Writing Center at south whether universities georgetown, texas which is very different from georgetown. But when i was running the Writing Center i realize the rhetoric run refugees was changing. It felt like a change within a day. We went from 35 years of bipartisan support and years, decades before that. All the said the word refugee came synonymous with terrorist. I felt like i was someone who is uniquely situated having had relationships with these two women in understanding the history of a rhetoric and how conversation takes place in american publics mind that i was may be the only person who could see this unique work. So for me the intersection of this book comes in part because of my relationships it also my very academic background in a way i steered these things. You can take this and this and put it together in these ways. Think that really comes through in the book. Well talk about this later. The way you organize the book. This could be the and a radical train wreck. Right . Guest there are several drafts. See what the train wreck was avoided. Lets begin. You begin the book by beginning to tell the story of who comes from emr and has this journey in which i think shes five years old. So tell us a little bit about what precipitated her movement . Tell us what it was like to get off that plane in austin, texas for her. Guest there kind of two things when you talk about it. I really want to be cognizant of the fact we may be time for who may be interested in writing at some point. Want to talk a little bit about the subject and the craft. I think of something is learning as i went. The stereotype we have of refugees is there journey is told in every western movie is refugees are in work thats really terrible parts of journey across the ocean or through a desert. Sometimes in the jungle for the rambo film appeared thin they are saved by westerners and thats the end. Its like they picked up the soldiers there every things wonderful. And i wanted to begin there and show the opposite of that. I wanted that to be the beginning of the story. So i began with the first journey that was the expected story think a lot of people had. And because i wanted to talk about how young she was. And to give some of the background behind the longest running civil war in the world. Which decided her family. She is of the karen ethnicity which is a discrete group. There several other groups being persecuted by the host there. I also want to show in the very beginning it wasnt war that was most stressful to her. Was her parents divorce. I think we often come to the stories expecting refugees to really only be able to talk about the trauma they have endured when throughout these interviews ive done ive been dozens and dozens of interviews with very, very rarely stressful its the neighborhood, its the family dynamic. Just like it is for any of us may think about the pandemic, not just the pandemic with how it affects our lives, the very minutia of who we are people, right . That is what i wanted to show. Host then you tell the story dramatically about her getting off the plane in the first few days in austin. I can think back to when i was living in west texas and visiting friends in austin. The first signs with austin weird thinking what must it be like . Tell us a little bit about the role of the texas Resettlement Agency and the very equities are some religious groups there. They someone trying to integrate or become familiar with this crazy american culture. So what did tell you a little bit of my relationship she is my very first former refugee friends. I got to be part of the story it is the name of the organization at the time it was a very small, i think it was only in austin. They have since grown in the 15 years or so since the story takes place 21 of the largest agencies in the country. An incredibly about 3 of the refugees in United States total. Part of what is complicated and interesting for me is telling the story. You dont see this because its focused as a caseworker in her case i dont who it is. I tried to find her who was really overwhelmed at the time for theres a huge influx kind of out of the blue is a bunch of refugees came over from me amar. This is ernie george they raise the ceiling and everybody came and agencies were scrambling. I wanted to show that a little bit in part because i wanted to keep an eye on what might come there is a raise at some point. This is not a tap you can turn off and on. When it arrived in austin, when she described it for me weve known each other for a long time, she now speaks english well enough to be one of the best translator within our community here in austin. And so she was able to recount for me things, many of them saw it firsthand about six months in. Whos that listening to her to talk about what it was like showing up in austin. She is such an extraordinary job of really describing. That first scene was a very first chapter i wrote in the book based on a friendship. I said what happen that first day you showed up . She talked about her shoes how stressed she was about her shoes and how weird it was to go down the escalator, right . She did not have the right kind of suitcases. There is people and air conditioning, she assaulted by all the smells. It was such a great reminder to those of us who kind of casually journey on airplanes, what if absolutely overwhelming experience that was for someone who hardly ever left your camp. Supported by wanted to show us her own sense of discomfort and stress and overwhelmed and us and moving into the space that for us we kind of dismiss. We can kind of take these is really easy steps. But for her they were massive, monumental culture shocks. So one think or the things you point out is a lot of writing about refugees as they have no agency. They are dependent. And yet you do show through these womens stories the Remarkable Agency and energy they do in fact possess. It is not a patron client relationship. There is some metonymy they do have agency. Thats often a missing part. Guest them so glad you saw that. Part of what im really concerned about in the way that we often portray. And former refugees and other immigrants and review them through it a lens. This is i put my Academic Work in here. One of my favorite books is white women writing white. Literally, Elizabeth Bishop and all the way she pretrade people. It was very difficult for me at times to not get stuck in my awareness of all the things i could be wrong. So one of my solution so that was to keep the focus on these women so deeply tight there is a camera right over their shoulder all times. There are some times i was there and wish i wouldve taken some better notes than i did. I only reconstructed this through their memories. So it took us two years a very indepth interviews in order to have something that feels like what they viewed. I did not want this to be a Resettlement Agency idea or journalist idea. I wanted to be close to reconstruction of what they remember in their own words. There several things both of them, id like to take that out or rather not do at that way. They have ownership of how their story is shaped. Mike everything about this is watching them or realize something that was in some ways i was painting a portrait they were describing to me. As they looked at it i saw both of them say i am stronger than i knew. Its like both of us cried the day i realized she hates it when she tell people tells her she cant do something. When that happens it shifts for her. A lot of the action in the story he will see when summit he says you cant do this is not going to work and she says im going to show you. Its a personality trait she has. There is will strengthen that. Her goal of this book is for women to know they are strong. I just loved that. I love getting to bring that in. She had agency over her own story. She is a person that has around agency. The only reason shes not able to write her own story is she has family memory still in danger. I wanted to be a conduit is much as i could for her story. Through it and your afterward whats kind of good as we get inside of your head in terms of your recognition of intersection alateen here. And you are to listen to their voice. Until we come into our listeners to buy the book. Secondly the afterward is quite compelling when you talk about your method, your style, tortious you made or didnt make in terms of telling that story. Its really quite compelling. Three to thank you. So once a big deal to me that people understand this is not in other white person imposing her ideas of what it means to be a refugee. Someone with more than a decade of relationships in this community having my thoughts to allow them to speak in their own voices. Will also hiding their identity. One of the lines as i hide whitneys be hidden until it needs to be told. There is a place for people who dont necessarily have the language for this desire. Neither of them want to be the person bret tried on a number of occasions to have some kind of radio option or something so the voices can be heard and neither of them are interested in that. Neither wants her story told. Need to figure out how to do that. Shes wonderful. Lets move it to her story its quite different she comes in a different part of the world. Give us the capsule of her sword journey and what it was like to come to austin. Guest one of things i was conscious was wanting to work against the stereotype Many Americans have about the middle east as a place where conflict just happens. And who even knows. In the audience listening to the certainly doesnt see that. Something that happens quite a bit, even in the news publications to have to work with editors and we cant just reduce someones story. So what i wanted to do was show, she had a line over a year into our conversations and what she talked about it being honey on her tongue prettify could describe what it wanted to happen especially in the early parts of the book was that. The home she had the very first conversation she had she spent an hour telling you where her plants were laid out in her courtyard. I said this is a person who story i can tell. Shes on the best friends it was not a hard decision for me. When it came time to telling someone elses story i wouldnt make the argument in this book you cant care more for a christian refugee from emr and you do from a muslim refugee from syria. We cannot choose these people. I want to show the very different experiences that people from syria have arriving in comparison to what was seen from so many people arrive from other places. As i was meeting people listening to them describe was a stratagem not sure how to describe it. She so very good at explaining and what was happening and how change. I really wanted to describe it. The first third of the book that we dont get to her crossing the border for a while. Wanted us to sit in her home and understand the complexity is much as possible so much we cut so many delightful stories i wish i couldve included. This home meant everything to her. One of the syrian readers have to get over that before i sent it to my editor wish i could stay in the very beginning of the book. For me i took on some of her grief. It was a place or she never lock your doors anew all of her neighbors and live there for generations. Simply shes dying to leave so she could get to the United States. The war began in her hometown. It was just with some neighbor kids. And everything shifted. Those of us have been around protestants the others agitation in our cities have some connection with that, right . We do not know whats happening right now for husband and others whats happening and it being everything for them. I wanted to show that. Host in my travels admitted number of syrian refugees. There is a level of grief. They remember the deep pluralis pluralism, the intolerant has become a watereddown world and enter a word in western culture. There was this pride. They found a way over centuries to live together and to prosper. And for all of that to now lit up with a match and for the people who have fled in seen family members back home still suffering, it is a pain there. Guest when i think of the country of syria now, the first things i think of are the people who had coffee and come again dozens of syrian peoples were christians are related to muslims there Close Friends with jews, they were able to live together they were effigies in palestine and iraq. The hospitality of syrians, you and i both traveled in lots of places. Ive never seen anything like this almost to a fault. I showed up at a friends help the other day the translator who worked with us to drop off a gift with her, she had a latte waiting for me. Because i didnt want to show up and not have coffee. It was stressful right . For us to reduce this, im sorry to use this but its being used by our president for jihadist regions. Those of us who are in positions where we do not have, i do not have relatives taken this many to be the first in the line speaking out against this kind of stuff. It is horrible for this country to have endured what has endured and then for us to reduce their grief and shame to dismiss it and these ways. Its really a shameful part of where we are in this moment in our countrys history. So when ive a couple friends to American ForeignService Officers who served in syria even when the conflict began to break out. They served like three years in damascus. And other places. They still feel a cultural pain in their bodies because they could absorb some of the pride of the history of syria. Its really quite extraordinary to see when you know somebody growing up in the United States have lived there for a number of years. They to carry often times an echo or trace of that same sort of natural and cultural pain that a lot of syrians do carry with them. Wonder if you could talk a little bit about the intersection of religion. Obviously in me marks quite complicated but in syria its quite complicated. On August Austin texas, what religious dynamics you see going on between the agencies and their clients but also the refugees themselves . Guest i actually dont think ive talked about this with anyone. The space of these two women is the most important thing. I dont think im giving anything in the book away that i and the book with both of them praying for those in intentional choice. Throughout both both of their stories theyre faced with something that come up on a number of occasions at every turn. She had a split household with a baptist parent or a buddhist parent and a christian parent. It reflected what often happens them emr. Missionaries went over in the 1850s. Theyre like different missionaries that targeted different regions. We have predominately Korean People who are christians and baptist, they tend to be catholic. So before the war in me mr which happened through western colonialism. Separate groups that were stuck within a one border that created a melting pot early crucibles in which the simplification to say that karen people are being targeted because of their faith but in some ways their faith is part of that. Not ethnically or historically. So there were refugees on the other side of the board are fleeing again these are complicated situations. What i really wanted t