And democracy to the public. And it is incredibly important today to carry that legacy forward by any means possible. Todays installment, the roles of freedom and democracy in American Foreign policy were teacher general h. R. Mcmaster served in the military for 34 years. Held the position of the 26th assistant to the president for National Security affairs as well as being a close friend of my husband for many years. Hell be talking about his new book, battleground, the fight to defend the fee and jeffrey world doctor michael crow the 1h president of Arizona State university. A Mccain Institute trustee and dear friend to my family. We are proud to host mcmaster and president grover will be at timely discussion on u. S. Foreign policy. Go ahead you can begin. Alright great. Glad to see everybody here. General mcmaster nice to see you again. What i want to do first is say the book, fantastic peace of work got many little tags on it. I want to spend some time relative to a set of core ideas that you put out in the book. In fact some that i think are fantastic in the sense they are concepts we should be using in the articulation of our thinking about Foreign Policy and National Event policy and so forth. I articulated 20 questions for you. Seventeen i would like to have quick answers to. That is not the elongated questions. In the last three or really want to spend a bunch of time on. The first one is and you articulate this. We see unbelievable changes 1945. Look at the results of the two great wars the 20th century we have the most peaceful europe weve ever seen. Democracy in our species weve seen economic progress like no one could ever have possibly imagine. We have the realignment of germany and japan and a successful economic democracy. So the question then to you because all the back to the estonian promise the notion of protect and advance democracy. In general, how do you think things are going . In general and the last 120 years in general how do you think . What president crow what a pleasure is to be with you and be here at an institute that is named for men of whom i have tremendous respect, senator mccain is what a thrill it was to know him over the years i admire him and his record of service. Id met her you and your record of service. What a wonderful institution. You know i think were pretty happy about it. If you look at this last 100 years in the context of the broad sweep of history, i think we have made tremendous progress. Especially after the two most destructive wars in modern history, world war i and world war ii, to crafted a peace without great power thought. In a peace as you alluded to his people out of poverty. But i think we cannot be complacent. Smit complacency never works, right. I lasted there for a Second Period let me go to, no complacency, lots of progress, tremendous struggle. In fact it is the struggle in some ways the soul in core of humanity. What would be individually free humans. What would be able to advance their own lives based on the Core Principles of our democracy as a species or not. And we have made tremendous progress. So one of the words we use them battleground is an important word to me as a heavyweight wrestler and all the things i was involved in, what is the core of the fight . Its more than marshall. And you talk about that. Do you think its the core of the fight . Think the core of the fight is we have to compete effectively to ensure that are free and open societies remain secure, are prosperous, and can extend effectively. We have to recognize that we have to compete and reenter a reasonable competition. Because of opera a jet over optimism in the 1990s and maybe too much pessimism and resignation in the 2000s you have to testified yourself from being overrun or wound bid others and thats the nature of the fight. Its everything basically. Its everything, and a major argument in the book of course the strategic competence and that excepts is our duty to integrate elements of National Power with likemeaned partner we want to militarize democracy or put opt doh want use only Law Enforcement or information. Its our ability to integrate the efforts and integrate efforts across the public and private sector and take the approach to these problem you take at Arizona State which is an interdiscipline incarcerate roach to challenges and. Prisoning in bring wherey you made significance contributions to the sign of our National Defense policy and Foreign Policy. Were still in the short answer form. This motion of when does something not become any longer a strategic throat. Ill use russia which has been a strategic out there to the out and may still be a trackis it there. If a been all over this place, and rich. Went there and said youre custodying me. They dont even know how to gas up an airplane, and doesnt mere theyre not military threat and doesnt mean theyre not a strategic but their economy is declining, a dictator who roams the planet doing whatever he wants with this sort of new approach im going bring in here. Mexicos economy is now almost as large as russias economy. There are fading g20 and mexico is a rising d20 to at the question the short form when is a threat no long are strategic giant its strugglic if you have Massive Nuclear arsenal and youre up enscrupulous. Russia wants to drag everybody else down. Putin recognize the constraints he is under, economically, demographically, especially now on the wake of covid, the collapse of oil price us. What did he do recently in poisoned his main political opponent, navalny. What russia walesynt to do is sow touts about who we are as people. To polarize our seat, pit us against each other and reduce our confident in our democratic republicans and institutions and processes. Russia isntstrung Strong Enough to credibility vulnerabilities in our society but they are Strong Enough to exploit them and thats what we see russia doing. Putins theory of victory is to be the last man standing. And to be successful in his cam pin of sub version fence the free world. Which is the classic position of a dictator, classic position of singularly folked individual, and i democratic by the sense of honor lost after they collapse of the soviet union and the ambition to restore russia to National Greatness he is using tealed that limited but dangerous. Its nate tower of different kind of classification for a strategic relationship. Next quick question. So before world war ii the u. S. Army was a small institution, the military of the out was japanly only expanded for the time of war. We never found ourself in a position of maintaining a war footing or war capabilities for decade after decade. This is the first time in our republics history we have done this. What their costs or risks of im not saying its good or bad. What are the costs a risk of a permanent war footing. Should be a permanent dedeterrence. You and i think what we realized in the 20th schnur when there was the north america could rely on the moats of the atlantic and pacific ocean, technology eliminated that aim of Free Security and were in an increasingly interconnected and shrinking world in which challenges to our security overseas can quite readily reach our shores and thats whether its jihaddist terrorists on september 11th or a new coronavirus that reached our shores earlier this year. So, i think what the argument in the book in battlegrounds is we have to stay engaged and we have to have a broad range of defensive capabilities, not just military. To convince or adversaries they account misch their objective through the you of force or the use of other means below the threshold of what might eve his sit a military response. So that segways to my next quick question. How do you design a comprehensive Defense Strategy, military, cyber, byow, climb, political infear the military is not wellequipped to deal with those of things and not equipped to deal with some of them at all. Look at our response to the pandemic we look like a pack of fools in a lot of of ways because we cant get our act together, cant make command and control decisionses the way we should and a lot of of things going on at awful levelsnot just the National Level. The question is a simpling one. How do you design a comprehensive Defense Strategy and tee stereotype a comprehensive Defense Strategy that has to be more than the military. You start with design thinking. Framing complex challenges, understanding them on their own terms and then viewing them through the lens of our vital interests. Why do we and they and then we can craft overarching goals and specific objectives and then the inventory, tremendous tools and competitive advantages at our disposal. Thats the beginning of developing a policy and strategy. Also important is understanding the assumptions under which we have to operate, assumptions as you mention, the limits of our competency the system we have, but also whatunder our competitive advantages and very importantly, its very important to acknowledge the degree to which others have agency and authorship of the future, and recognize the interactive nature of competitions. So i think we skip a lot of these steps in washington. We tend to rush to actions that were comfortable with already or we tend to try to fit everything into a military stovepipe or a cylinder of excellence instead of recognizing the real competence come widths integrate our efforts. The design approach is exactly it and it probably does mean you articulate this. You talk about identifying and respecting the agency even of our adversaries or competitors and as well as enhancing the agency of different groups within the out itself, which means rethinking the entire process as you suggest later in the book and ill come to this later to be nonlinear. Were so linear right now in our thinking we just follow these historic paths and none of that covid has shown us none of that works linear thinking we knew covid was coming he we knew there would be great pandemicked. We thought in linear ways and werent ready. Right. And the models were wrong and we misunderstood big packets of the problem. We had to learn and adapt. We werent as agile also we needed to be. Think the words i would use we have to emphasize is the ability to coordinate and integrate efforts. We are a federal system. Were a republic. And were not going to have strong centralized control and wed be terrible at it if we tried. We have to coordinate and integrate more effectively and with the private singer as well. So, in short form, leaving time for questions at the end, so world war 1 and world war ii changed europe and it future forever. He the enlightenment was safe, social and cultural prowag saved those two warsened sure the stabilization of europe, and yet it looks like people are no longer interested in the maintenance of this alliance, and the maintenance of this western alliance, and to good or bad. I know the answer but how bad is the nonmaintenance of this western alliance . Its bad. The situation in and the pros pickets are not as bad as we think. I thick theres a growing recommendation that we in the free world are in this together. When you look at the aggression of the Chinese Communist party, this wolf order diplomacy and theres nothing leak the prospect of death to focus the mind, and i think that in the west, within europe and win europe and the out, the transatlantic relationship, including now the United Kingdom separate knock at the European Union and still culturally and in terms of prims and values connected to the continence, i think we recognize now were in a competition. Thats the first step. We have to cooperate together to build a Better Future for generations to come and i think theres growing realization also we are in this crisis of covid, the recession associated with it and a crisis of confidence as well, michael. One thing you introduce in the book very well i think and very clearly is this rndw, russian next generation warfare if hold crimea because of their successful implement indication of those methods of comprehensive conflict. Law fare, social disruption, political disruption, cultural disruption, social media messaging, interruption of democratic processes and even done a number of those near our country and other countries. So the question on rndw if thats what the enemy is using why are we not countering it with the same approach or undermine that approach . Short answer. Were starting. To were getting more adept at this. When i say we its the u. S. Utah government but the u. S. Government along with allies and partners. There is a lot of great coordination going on like minded countries that doesnt really meet the eye. We need to become even better at it. You look at the contrast between russians attack on the 2016 election and their lack of effectiveness 2018 you can see effects that are defensive measures have had and then also some changes in policy that have unleashed or cyber cape capabilities. Its important to use your compelstive advantages. Conduct Law Enforcement investigations that are important not only for indictments and the sanctions on these groups like Internet Research agency, and what i call war far, its lawfare. Its lawfare, right. We have been able to pull the curtain pack better now and express the kremlins activity and its the betts disinfectant, and which i call the many call now cyber enabled Information Warfare against us, which is part of this Overall Campaign of political subversion. One thing i kept coming back to in my mind was this notion of your writing this book with the u. S. Still remaining a the soul super power on the planet and then he remember the lost big sole super pour on the planet was rome which has conflict, social disruption, weaknesses, collapse, people being killed on the floor of the senate, the transcribe bounds and others tribe begun and the pro counsels and the councils at each others throats and then the demise of the entire empire. Any worries about our empire . Well, i wouldnt call us an empire but i do have concern about the free world overall. I think that what youre seeing these days is heart king in connection witha much higher degree of international cooperation. You look at the reactions that recent aggression give the Chinese Communist party and that is brought together india, australia, japan and the United States, how to Work Together with even more partners on that particular problem set, and then i think the relationship with the eu, with eu countries, with the uk, its getting stronger as well, and if our free and open societies Work Together, especially i think from an economic perspective, japan, the eu and the u. S. Constanting together, its really going to be tough to beat and i think that thats the pest best shot ill skip around here at built. So, you use a great quote itself you know your enemi know yourself you need not fear the result of a hundred bats if if you know yourself and not the enemy for every victory gained you will suffer defeat. Im thinking to myself, so, we do know russia and they were defeated by us. Did we know vietnam . No, we didnt know vietnam. And this was the topic of a previous book i wrote. And [loss of audio] too we know china . I think were learning more but china. I think what had this specific view of china. We defined china in relation to us and how we would like china to be and we had this attitude we can change china witch welcome china in the international community, theyll play the he rule and liberalize and check their form of government, but of course that wasnt the case because we underestimate that he degree which ideology and emotion drives and con trains the Chinese Communist party in particular. We all know chinas anything put monolithic or homo jean homogenous we have to tissue end the communityist party and the chinese. In the 15 largesttochina and self of them many time and we have a lot of activities, hundreds of thousands of american organizations, candidate, universes and other working in china, working with the people, not working with the government but working with the people and with the economy, in a lot of ways. Do we know iran. I dont think so. I white in the book, our policy toward iran as missed two big aspects of understanding the behavior of the iran yapingtime. The revolutions won. This is ayatollah hoe main i thought that was something the way you but from multiayatollahs. This is an element of this a theocratic dictatorshipment the second fact its that iran has been fighting a proxy war against us for four decades and so we tend to focus on a street issue. What is iran doing in iraq or syria or lebanon the Nuclear Program and itsunder pointer to understand the challenge he holiesicly and put together a policy and strategy that unders the full range of this particular challenge. Certainly if well take thed a i found it interests youre a general, a writer, a philosophyer, thicker and you brought other lot to pear. My son ryan was in afghanistan six or seven times on nationbuilding projects, working on projects with the u. S. Agency for International Development while combat operations were doing and he told me how tinge it was to have the military and civilians all working together in the annual actual art of nation building and told me temperature odd to kim blessty complexity. We had a gps locate for so i would know whether to get him. Hi was a civilian out in the field. So what put nationbuilding he go in and we eliminate the taliban threat through combat arms, we becomen damaged in a more successful way than all of the british attempts fighting in some sense the same groups over time, yet we have innovate built a nation. We have