Family institutions have a special affection for david nasaw. s biography of Andrew Carnegie was a lifechanging event for us. Through davids work, we came to know Andrew Carnegie, one lesson from the book stayed with me and animated my work, and that is the cockeyed optimism was not entirely misplaced. For all the madness you see in the world progress based on reason and can do spirit is indeed possible. The idea keeps me going and this occasion gives me the opportunity to say thank you. In addition to the carnegie biography davids previous books include biographies of Joseph Kennedy and William Randolph hearst. Today we turn to david nasaws supportive not one person but 1 million persons who emerged brutalized yet alive on the day, april 1945. The last million europes displaced persons from world war to cold war is an epic story the texas to the heart of europe during and after world war ii. It describes the movement of millions of people amid shifting borders and general chaos. About war and its aftermath. It describes life at a discreet level in the highest reaches of government. Millions of people were displaced by world war ii, most known were those sent to concentration camps but also migrant laborers, Political Prisoners and pows. When the war ended many if not most displaced persons returned home yet as the title suggests 1 million did not. This book tells the story of their search for a new home. Thanks for joining us. A simple question, how did you come to this story, how do you see the last million as a singular story to be told . It had to do with tony justs extraordinary book postwar. I had learned not to take the common sense view of historical events as necessarily truthful. Sometimes only partially truthful. The book began clear to me, much clearer than before that wars dont end, with peace treaties, cessation of hostility even with soldiers going home. Into postwar, the suffering for civilians displaced by war continues unabated in the cases of the last million, 3 to 5 years that they remained in germany, in camps, many behind barbed wire. After ve day. Host lets talk about the million who remain. You talk about the 1 million into germany. Can you give us a little bit of information about who these people were and who wins willingly and who didnt . There were Three Streams into germany during the war. The most important was in the ukraine. These were in large part adolescents, young men and women grabbed from their homes, forced onto trucks and trains into germany. Hitler and the third reich leadership knew the only possible way to send millions of soldiers to the Eastern Front was to replace them with millions more from the east. That was the first group. They began arriving in 194041 and continued to arrive through the end of the war. The second stream that made up the last million came in 19441945 from lithuania, estonia, and parts of ukraine and these were men, women and children, men and women who had in one way or another collaborated with the nazi authorities. Sometimes that collaboration meant a post office overseen by a nazi official. In other cases it meant serving in the auxiliary police and rounding up jews. In some it meant joining the ss. When it became clear that the red army was on its march and would soon arrive in the Baltic States and in the ukraine thousands upon thousands of citizens who collaborated in some way, citizens who could not abide the thought of living under soviet domination made their way into germany but the third group for the jewish as the war came to a end hitler and the germans officials realized they didnt want the fact of the death camps to be discovered by the russians and the world, number one. Number 2, they needed more labor at home. And the decision was made to relocate those who had survived the death camps and the labor camps in poland and the balkans to relocate them, death march them into germany where they would be not gassed, but worked to death. Most of them in underground armament factories these were the three groups, germany, journey into germany is different. So too would be there experiences in germany. If the day or a little bit after were in 1945, could you give us a little bit of a feel for what it is like in these camps and what sort of futures score choices are these people looking at . There is no way to comprehend the devastation in germany that displaced persons found when they left workplaces or concentration camps, they were rounded up by the allies, gotten out of the way, and then sorted out by nationality and taken into camps behind barbed wire often. Camps that were run by United Nations relief and Rehabilitation Administration but supplied by the armies, food, medical supplies, shelter, they built facilities and took care of them. In germany, in the years following ve day in these camps, there were little ukraines, little latvias, little jewish centers. In the beginning the unrest and the allies decided they were going to separate out by nationality. They did not recognize there was such a thing as a jew. Lithuanian jews were sequestered with lithuanians, polish jews with nonjewish poles. In many instances the jewish survivors found themselves in the same camps as those who had been there guards in concentration and labor camps. That ended in july and august when the jews were put in their own camps. There is a sense in all these camps that this was transitional, that they would soon be allowed to go home. The latvians, the estonians believed world war iii was coming rapidly and the americans and british were going to invigorate ukraine, latvia, estonia, lithuania from the soviets, misplaced persons could go home again. Same with the polls, the jews believed they could never go home again, they had no place in europe with some of the buddhists trying in the beginning to convince themselves and others they could return and build a new jewish community. The only place on earth they soon recognized they would be welcome in palestine, the british did everything they possibly could under the mandate to keep the jews out. Host i want to talk about who couldnt go home. S1 point the decision is made to not force repatriation, that individuals would have a choice. Talk about that. Guest one of the things i realized as i did my research is the cold war begins almost immediately. The ramp from world war ii cold war is a steep one. In the beginning the soviets and their allies in eastern europe, soviet dominated land of eastern europe, they demand every displaced person except the jews and those who were displaced years before every displaced person should go home, but one or 2 or not they had to go home. The allies said no. The americans and british said no. People have the right to choose their own citizenship whether they wanted to go home or not. The soviets, there is a paranoia that has some basis in reality, after world war i the allies tried to overthrow the bolshevik regime. Some of stalins compatriots believed that was a real possibility after world war ii and what the allies were doing, what the british and americans were doing was creating an army of antisoviet, anticommunist dissidents that would be available to spread antisoviet propaganda and or world war iii. Host you mentioned in passing the establishment of International Institutions to deal with this problem. First we have the United Nations relief and Rehabilitation Authority and then later we have the ir oh, International Refugee organization and there is amazing passage in your book, those who will look at it on page 258, where you talk a little bit about how these organizations and their names hint at a mission of being humane institutions to provide relief for human suffering and yet they turn into something else, utilitarian employment agencies if you will. Talk a little bit about those institutions and how they are set up and where they eventually go. Guest Franklin Roosevelt in this book and others, he understands in 1943 that there will be an enormous refugee problem not only in europe but asia as well and the only way to solve the refugee problem is through International Cooperation and he is instrumental in 1943 in the Rehabilitation Administration and its the nations of the world including the soviet union to join. The understanding is that it will be an agency that repatriates, that takes care of the immediate needs of the refugees and provides passage home for them. For the last million that doesnt happen and although the soviets demand they be sent home or made to survive on their own in germany the americans and the british continue to support these people in camps for a year, a year and a half until it becomes clear they are not going home. The americans and the british spearhead the new organization, new organization without the soviets was the soviets wont join. It is not to repatriate but to resettle and beginning in 194647 there is this extraordinary, bizarre meat market set up, a meat market set up in the displaced persons camps and all members of the International Review review organization, dozens of latin american nations, canada, australia, south africa, delegations into the camps to find workers to take jobs they cant find anybody else to do. It begins with the british, the british have a severe labor shortage and they cant get anybody to work in the Tuberculosis Center or hospitals so what do they do . They go into the camps and recruit thousands of latvian women in the beginning and then they decide this works so well we need help in the mines, bring in latvian men, the latvians run out, go to lithuania, estonia, ukraine, the french dig minors, they need Railroad Workers and people who work in forestry. The International Organization becomes, tries to look at that but shots have been called, doing the recruiting. There is a hierarchy in terms of desirability and some of that based on race and perception or maybe it is purely to utilitarian function. Guest it is a combination. The latvians, the australian Prime Minister makes it clear the latvians are white, the latvians are protestant, the latvians are anticommunist, the latvians only arrived, unlike the polls or the jews, only arrived in germany at the end of the war and were relatively healthy and have an suffered the ravages of the war, jewish survivors suffered. And it was felt they were hard workers. No country on earth wanted the jews. They didnt want the jews for a variety of reasons. They werent reasons. A variety of myths and misconceptions. They regarded the jews as clannish, unwilling to do hard manual labor, as scoundrels, as thieves and worse yet as bolshevik sympathizers or operatives. From 19471948 as latvians and ukrainians and estonians were resettled outside the camps the jews were left. The only way for the jews to get out of those camps was through illegal immigration to palestine. The british tried to stop them from italian portend bulgarian ports, found that but they couldnt do it and 20, 30 thousands displaced jews made their way to israel. Once they arrived, the british grabbed them and sent them to cyprus and put them behind barbed wire but for the jews getting out of germany even to go into another set of displaced persons camps was more practical. Host so many questions about the story of jewish displaced persons. I want to ask about truman as relates to this story. The way i am reading it in the narrative, willing to confront the british to say you need to open up palestine. It is a painful process but he confronted the british and gets there in that direction. Hes not willing to confront, is that fair . Guest truman believes in the beginning the state Department Says dont go there and truman says i am going a, conference churchill and immediately says youve got to open up palestine for the jewish displaced persons and he hence if you need to do that, you need to help me out here, you need their support and it is the humanitarian thing to do. This further argument is just tragic, you dont have to worry the way you did before the war. 6 million jews were killed. The European Jews are not going to overwhelm palestine. We are not talking about millions. We are talking a couple hundred thousand. The british will not budge. You care this much about European Jews take them into the United States, truman knows about domestic politics, british politics or international politics. He knows he cant do that. Thats not possible. The hostility of the European Jews, misunderstanding what has happened to them is such congress is never going to allow this into the country. There was a theme in the book strung together and this goes back to the camps themselves, word gets back to truman that the situation is dire, people are suffering and he talks to eisenhower and tells him to clean it up and eisenhower goes through a tour of the camp, the jewish camp and makes the point these are under United States, and. Was that an act of humanity or was i romanticizing truman and eisenhower in light of more recent events with the treatment of displaced people in the United States . Truman and eisenhower are the heroes in this book, flawed heroes but truman recognizes from the beginning the plight of displaced persons, and those who said clifford, he read the bible from early on and the pain, in the beginning youve got to realize what a mess, nobody knows how many jews had survived, millions were killed but no one knew what the condition was, but there was this sense the state department had this sense that the jews have suffered but so has everybody else and we cant single out the jews, the jewish organizations in the United States and britain said jews had suffered more than any other group and they need special treatment. The state Department Said no, the british said absolutely not. The jews retreated like everyone else, they were treated like everyone else and the suffering was intense and in july truman sends a Factfinding Mission led by dean harrison, dean earl harrison, who was not a jew, harrison comes back with a report, and says we are treating the jews as badly as the germans did, truman reads this report to eisenhower, and says to eisenhower you got to take care of this, this is impossible, unamerican, eisenhower goes to work. Host you mentioned before the cold war aspect of this. Could you say a little more about soviet interest in this situation, how does it look from moscow, this trip into the beginning stage of the cold war from the east . Guest the soviets know that large numbers of collaborators have escaped from the east, from the baltic nations, belarus, ukraine and made their way into germany. Many stories of workers and collaborators who throw away their uniforms, invent new histories for themselves, finding their way into displaced persons camps and once in displaced persons camps, they had been farmers, factory workers, the soviets know and the polls know and the yugoslavs know there are war criminals there and they want to bring them to justice, number one. Number 2, they know that there is a cauldron of anticommunists in these camps and it is going to affect the future direction of europe and the war that having these dedicated, recalcitrant anticommunists let loose in the world is going to cause them hardship. The third and most important reason is the soviets and polls the yugoslavs have been extraordinary in Building Nations and every labor they can including, including members of the last million who were idle in germany, rather than returning to poland to rebuild the devastated country. Host i dont remember when it happens but there is a bill passed in the United States congress for resettlement of refugees in the United States a couple years later. It is time but this is a big question and im sure everyone will feel this when reading the book, why doesnt the United States, other countries but also in the United States do more to sort out the war criminals, collaborators, nazis and others. As they resettle in the United States. The americans and the british and the canadians didnt keep the war criminals and collaborators out or how to do it. I discovered that wasnt the case. In every displaced persons camp there was in poland the surviving jews immediately establish the historical commission. In austria the most famous of the jewish were the nazi hunters, Simon Wiesenthal steps up a commission, they take testimony for displaced persons. They have lists, long lists, who among the displaced persons should be tried, no one gives a damn. One of the reasons for this is the memories of world war are obliterated by the fears of cold war. Hitler has been defeated so the sentiment is in the United States, the nazis have been defeated. They are not coming back. The danger from the cold war, this notion of totalitarianism, that stalin is a latterday hitler, the soviets are the same as the germans and weve got to turn from fighting one more to the other almost immediately and so what if some of these displaced persons were not see collaborators or antisoviet or fought against the red army . So what if they joined the ss . They are anticommunist and we needed them. Lets forget the past and move forward. And this happens, theres a story i tell which stayed with me, a group of minors in england, that are leftwing but doesnt really matter. Discovered that the latvians, displaced persons, had ss tattoos and threatened to go on strike unless something is done about it and it gets back to the government. A