I am president of aei i would like to start by reading from doctor cheneys opening paragraph. Into a map virginia and extend the other leg of the compass the 60 miles and draw a circle. Within it Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and james monroe were born this is where they made their home. Came for the nations first five president s a dynasty they led to secure independence and to build the republic. What a great way to start the book this is a wonderful chronicle of four major leaders and those what they call the spirit of perseverance as a longtime member of the faculty will take to moment to acknowledge how much we appreciate your scholarship and intellectual contributions and the server she has done for our country. This is the latest of several works examine your countrys history with consideration and rigor. Her last book, James Madison a life we considered was a New York Times bestseller in 2014 to shed new light on one of our most underappreciated founders. Im so pleased to have both of you here today and will be taking conversations after the conversation beforehand things are going to say one less thing for a treasure piece of history were to conduct the current Vice President of the united state mike pence during that interview he was polite but relentless and had tough questions it was a great dialogue those who were the questioner had pushed the envelope a little bit. It is far more formidable than the one you faced that day so i want you to know have at it give it your best shot. With that i want to turn it over to doctor cheney to talk about her new book the virginia dynasty. Thank you you did a good job to lay out the context and it was just remarkable to me that on this isolated part of the continent and certainly not an important caller on colony been the painfree of everything that these four men word grow to greatness so the purpose is that you read it so well set the context. I agree. Taken away Vice President or will you go to questions now . Usually she has more to say. [laughter] and i was struck as lynn just mentioned take the enormous consequences of what these men did and now they could achieve what they were a part of building the United States of america with the political system and so forth and at the time it was a real backwater. And certainly around washington dc but at the time couldnt help but think about it and the remarkable accomplishments. And i have to forgive dick for that very long time i disappeared and i was writing away on my book and far corners of the house. That has happened many times during a 56 year marriage. [laughter] your presence was always felt here. We knew where you were it was a great joy to have you were going on inside our building it with the Research Assistance that you worked with and your example that you set for everyone who worked here. You may have mr. Vice president , but we didnt. It is a mystery to people dont read books anyone can spy and spend five or six or seven years writing a book now the writing about so sure about that the research when you have terrific Research Assistance as i have had at aei its just one fascinating question after another and thats what takes me so long i go down every rabbit hole pretty convinced at the outset i will never played any part of what im doing in the book you have to of the research and i like writing a lot. But in order to spend time on a project. One of the questions that comes to mind not only were these men architects for freedom and liberty most of them owned slaves and that was clearly a significant element in the 19th century. How do you reconcile the architects of historic political system that most of the architects were hoping to slaves that is a very big question nowadays. With washington being tossed into the river. I am not opposed to taking down the confederate soldiers and confederate leaders. But i am appalled actually lower in the dc government to suggest to explain the monument and the Jefferson Memorial better than it can be moved to some other place they cannot do this because the statues and monuments are on private land but i am appalled at this and the hook for it is usually jefferson called the disdain on virginia and then to speak of it as a moral sin so they were fully aware and the contradiction in which they existed but they found themselves unable the circumstances were not stretch that justice demanded when they understood what a unique place they were in, what unique time they were in. The idea with freedom and liberty and justice and equality were central to that so they were perfectly ready not that they did and it is a contradiction but i am sure glad that they did it. How long did it take you to write the book . Hello . We are disconnected. How long did it take you to write the book . Hello . We are disconnected we have the sound. The producers are like me to take a backseat so the two of you can just dialogue. We are all hanging on every word i assure you with the audience to hear every word that im getting the cut sign for me im enjoying it so much sometimes you have to listen to the staff so im backing up so the two of you can engage in a dialogue keypad it. Everybody okay with that quick. Sure. He was just about to ask me a very tough question. Why did you write the book you read the biography before and legitimately so. It was on the New York Times bestseller list and the time you spent on madison. That certainly was the case that i saw when i was working on madison how important the relationships were between him and jefferson in particular. But madisons life was intertwined with monroe and it turns out that they inspire one another leading to thoughts they may not have had otherwise. And out of the disagreement with madison and jefferson to some extent. And out of the coral in washington. The government should be running one way and that was the elected politicians and the voters should go home believe that politicians alone. And madison in particular was thinking about it they really believed that were subject to criticism and that made washington crazy thats in the original divide between washington on the one hand and the three younger men began. Which did you most admire . Which they like to have lunch with . It has to be jefferson. I would have assumed it was madison. Thats different. What kind of an experience mr. Had been to have jefferson talk about his experiment with a series of government and according to one woman who talk to him earlier in the presidency she had no idea he was the president elect and then be very pleasant but i do admire madison more and not subject to a whim in a very dont thinker the were studious of them all pussy had a wonderful wife dolly was really an unusual person in her time and she didnt think twice. She was three or 4 inches taller than madison when they went out formal locations on occasions he didnt care that she wore a plume and her turban. He liked her extravagance and people generally live the incredible way that she dressed. She had one outfit that was pink velvet and with chains but everyone noted that there were some women how excited was a woman were distressed that she use one and so much of breast that was stylish at the time but why does she do that . What they met is why did she not take a handkerchief to her neckline look at the portrait in the white house but that was dolly she was just out there and with Bader Ginsburg obviously set up a situation in terms of thinking a replacement. And there were times in the book when there were conflicts between the members but those of us who read the history of the era have a tendency to think we are working hard doing good things not spending much time or being aware if there are conflicts among them. I just wonder how that crew looks at the sole question two. The Supreme Court justice before the election with the first woman to serve on the court to be replaced and to be curious how that would be dealt with. And i just say a word about Justice Ginsburg . It has been deemed politically incorrect nobody has mentioned a sense of style. Not only a great justice but also a sense of style and wearing something a little exotic there is a picture of the Supreme Court members walking down the steps and she has a long skirt and is so appropriate for the moment. She just had that. So that is my politically incorrect complement but i suspect our senators and the country as a whole for one more thing about ruth Bader Ginsburg during the American Island nomination someone asks her that she thought the president should not on and wait and not a point in the last year before the election or if she thought somebody should hold offloading. The president is still the president in the last year. So i think it shows the kind of changes that people in public life sometimes undergo and that has been changed all the time. He was the father of the constitution, the man who got the bill of rights through , but after he had struggled to make the Constitutional Convention work, he wasnt sure it was any good. But with him three or four weeks he was promoting it and he promoted it on the basis we really needed a more powerful government and in the end he changed his mind about that and became worried about a very powerful central government. And there was a british politician who said once when the situation changes i change my mind. Would you do . So part of the back and forth the supported what and when is a part of politics. Certainly washington, madison and jefferson had a very far relationship with John Marshall who by the way had gone to school and its so little and it was said like it was Little Country cousin renee. And related to everyone else in a way and then talking about the court and it also was Justice Scalia they use to hunt and fish together and i was always struck by the relationship because they were opposites in the position that they represented but they were very close personally in terms of family and time spent together and i can remember Justice Scalia talking about ruth Peter Ginsburg in glowing terms how much they enjoyed their relationship. You are more than i but was based mostly on opera and love for Classical Music and Justice Ginsburg said at one point when i go and listen to the opera the voices inside my head i am just relieved and to be uplifted by it but i suspect and those to be all involved but my feelings obviously i was not there then that there is a feeling in the country today politically have evolved in a way that what you would expect with the white house and the president or so forth and its pretty severely strained and the battles are significant and since he first came to washington to that significant extent when the relationships are better and friendlier and more collegial as they often are on the court. Just because i know you, you have had some experience with this and nobody ever condemns you for doing it but jack was a democrat. When i arrived for years with relationships in the republican secretary of defense my strongest ally in the house the man that i did the most work with was jack murtha who is a marine and he is my closest ally he chaired the defense of probation subcommittee in the house while i was secretary of defense so they were those relationships like that and then to some degree of cooperation but your book shows that sometimes like it was. I think the most rewarding relationship for jefferson and madison. They didnt always agree. Jefferson tried to undermine constitutional ramification and then to undertake the crucial ratification of the constitution to suggest that they do not ratify it madison , the steadiest of all did not get mad or at least not that he showed it. Jefferson was embarrassed so it took madison a long time to send jefferson a copy of the federalist papers and i just love that as an example because you think i will criticize the constitution now the madison doesnt lose his temper and i think jefferson may have been a very difficult and. One friend asked me a couple more questions and then well go to the questions on the board. When we married you were a phd in English Literature obviously drifted quite a way that in history spending a lot of time in American History and political history. I was told i should have more history than Political Science would be more valuable and useful for me. How do you account that transition from literature to politics of the founding father fathers. I could not get a job as a literature major. And there were some very nice people along the way who love me to do and then i will history i just drifted towards it. Its not Political Science i dont know why and the idea to get a phd but i did. And then this one job that i had allowed one day a month to take one aspect of washington to really describe it and get to the underlying parts of it. Like Lincoln Cemetery to the column that are all over washington. And why we had all these columns. It was the kind of assignment that whet my appetite and not just the direction i had. Was turned over to folk. Im sure they have question. I like yours. Just to say thank you that was lovely we hung on every word now to turn it over to our resident here at ai on aei to monitor the questions from the audience we cannot resist to come back on to say thank you to both your conversation. Im the gerald visiting scholar here and it is a pleasure to be able to the doctor cheney and Vice President cheney and we have some really interesting questions. The first i want to ask you about, is the quality of statesmanship among these men and i am struck they wanted to go home or stay home washington didnt want a second term and jefferson carried in virginia and madison was back in montpelier with a wife and a young stepson the war was in europe and he wanted to go home. But they are sacrificed for the sake of the good of the country. Can you tell us your thoughts on what qualities of statesmanship that set these four men apart . Certainly the sense of the importance of the task they were about. It was enormous. Is such an opportunity based on freedom. It was an irresistible calling to them. So madison went home in washington when whenever he clipped those six years he was gone during the revolution and at one point madison spent far more time at a boarding house in philadelphia than he did at home. And the feeling that they each had a feeling you are part of something bigger than yourself that was very attracted to them. So the nearly all went broke that was part of the fact they had been absentee landowners for so long there were many reasons. But if a word ask them would you rather have had a life in which you died welloff then or create a great nation, im pretty sure they would have chosen the latter. Another reader points out the network of man that you discussed in your book or the poor titans of the virginia dynasty and others as well like the bostonian the adams and hancox and also work in new york and philadelphia with hamilton morris, shiloh, how do you describe the relationship of these Different Networks that the Eastern Networks were more focused on commerce when the Virginia Network was more agricultural with the economic background . They didnt achieve in quite the same way there is a wonderful quotation i cant remember who wrote it. Maybe you can help me with that they set of john adams his wonderful and entertaining and smart but he is half mad. [laughter] in washington was appalled when he became commander of the Continental Army and went to boston but now in virginia you dont money grow because you have slaves who did not in the end slavery didnt work it did not allow for a profitable enterprise but they were much more polite than adams picking on he was kicking up dust and stirring up trouble. Is just one example by the northerners and southerners from the beginning with very different and part of the reason the civil war happened so they never really reconcile those differences and certainly the north could not reconcile its over slavery. That the big three all have these great titles like the father of the country, author of declaration of independenc independence, father of the constitution, and often under looked at your book chooses to focus on other so what you think they added and 200 years later as a society what have we missed about him . We missed a lot for a long time because there was not comprehensive scholarship on his papers and there is now i expect in the years ahead we will see a lot more from scholarship he was a curious man. He angered more than any other with a formidable temper but monroe is the one he was angry about most the time was washington he would write the scathing letters and memos to washington to tell him what a worthless person he was and he was leading the country into monarchy. This is fascinating and i think we have been able to pay enough attention to it before but to see this aspect of his character and then realize what seems like a grievous fall with his ability to anger so quickly and easily he was a good president. He didnt but i a great defense like the Louisiana Purchase even though he was there. Maybe some negotiating but his achievements were great nonetheless. It was monroe with John Quincy Adams help that made the United States a continental nation. People always make of this description of monroes term in office his two terms that in some sense that was real there was a calm in the country and in the presidency. He had the most stable cap next of any of the president s that is a security and the continuity that people felt. Talking about the revolutionary war and how it sha