Host welcome senator murphy its a pleasure to be with you today. Its a pleasure to read your book, the violence inside us. I learned a lot it is a useful book that people should read whether or not you have experience on this extremely important subject. Gun violence and american violence. I would like to begin with the title itself the violence inside us it forces the book where you take the reader through a short primer on biology and history. Why begin they are and why did you choose violence . Thank you for doing this im glad to be joining you to talk about this book. I start with the question of what kind of violence is inside us because for me it was the first question i came upon which was the mission of my political career. While the book is mostly a history of american violence and how we overcome the history, it involves my own political story. Since the shooting in connecticut in 2012, i have been pretty prodigious as a lawmaker before hand but i never had an emotional connection like i do now in those days after the shooting of sandy hook this was going to become my political calling that the question i ask myself isnt that different when others ask is a young man with no prior history of violence with no conceivable clear motive walking into an Elementary School to gun down 2t graders how on earth can a human being do that . How does the brain work in a way that convinces yourself that is a logical next step . I want to start there and talk about how 99. 9 percent of us would conceive of a mass murderer. And then when we contemplated violence. And its important to understand that our species is more prone to violence than any other and thats the way in which humans organize themselves with dominance over others and they put themselves in the position to procreate so that discussion of how understanding the ways that which broken brains operate to understand the way a normal brain operates which is essential to the human stories. And to understand the violence properly its hard to appreciate and with that historical trouble in fact its the norm throughout the course of human history. So talk about in particular so the United States is something of an outlier with a much higher murder rate than another nation. And then to explore the reason why. But talk about those exited shootings but we are the out later the outlier with a homicide rate. And with much of americas early history and not until the 1800 hes one 1800 until we diverge from the rest of the world. And then it never came back. We have been a global outlier 150 years. And there are two things that explain why those numbers started to separate. The first is the advancement of slavery in the United States with the caught gin we brought more slaves and then we used more violence as a mechanism to Order Society at very early it became used to violence it was a normal mechanism and also used in high numbers. And violence just became normalized. And then to began to expand the rates of violence. And that is the invention of the self repeating handgun to be used without we loading every single time. And with that gun regulation at spread throughout United States and were romanticized. And then that the entrance of new migrant groups and with that normalization of violence coming out of the expansion of the slave population starts to move the rates of violence and gun homicide in the upward directio direction. s you are saying that this is so much higher because of these two things so which are position the United States to be more violent than average country. And this would be a surprising confession about guns over and over and do some of this going into the research but certainly to reinforce me so yes. America would always be a more violent place. And that smoldering fire in this new country. So the last thing you should do is throw gasoline on the smoldering fire and in this case was the explosion of firearms and then that antipathy to any type of regulation the only fall into the hands of those who are responsible. My argument is to have the elevated responsibility in the United States of america to control violence because the history of slavery and a racist cast system to be reinforced by a violence as a melting pot with the increased rates of violence. And then to take further steps with those levels of violence. Host i found it interesting that that the Supreme Court decision was in fact rightly decided. When the court recognized individuals right to bear arms that was not necessarily connected to any military service. So what should that mean for gun control moving forward . So i told this story in the book there was a law Compelling Church services those must be armed know we have the strictest laws prohibiting the ownership of weapons but in the early days and with those native american tribes and then to open the carry weapons and it speaks to what i believe to be a common law and that they should carry weapons in the Second Amendment that is horribly convoluted and impossible to understand and conceivably be only relate to militias thats the ownership but in the Founding Fathers thought they had the basic rights to own weapons but that connecticut law also tells you thats what heavily regulates that there were far more laws during the early days in which people were prohibited from guns or the gunpowder there was a heavy regulation which trading tells you the Founding Fathers didnt think legislators could take away your rights they that they could heavily condition the right to own a weapon of of certain individuals i just think thats a smart place to land to say we have no secret agenda in fact we dont think the constitution allows for that but only the right weapons in private hands. And thats to what the constitution commands us. You talk about the nra. It was among the most powerful if not the most powerful. Do you say that is true today and why or why not . Its not true today because we have spent the last seven years building up a movement combating gun violence that has become more and more powerful and has overtaken the nra. We have done a very good job to expose the nra. One of the things i talk about in this book how it has changed over a marksmanship organization to make soldiers more effective with their weapons and to do the same thing as those shooting for sport or hunting and then a guy comes along and i told this story in the book. This is a fascinating part of the story. Could you tell a little bit about that . Many people dont know that part of the stories. It comes out on of the texas border country his whole family has worked for us Border Protection and has a run in with the mexican youth who has committed a crime against his family and in that confrontation he ends up shooting with that technicality and then he changes one vowel in his name and then to join the nra and then and then it goes around so then with a group of radicals to take over the nra they announce a clue where it is an annual Nra Convention and then as an advocate for gun control and responsible gun ownership and then to take the nra to pastor that with the developing rightwing movement and seize this opportunity not just the last regulation but with the anti gayrights and the anti Civil Rights Movement and that is the leader of the political infrastructure in this country that is no compromise on gun laws and it is a fascinating story that are sleepy politically to the seventies and then the epicenter of americas anti rightwing Regulation Movement and that is what the nra is in 2013 when i First Encounter to get the background check past. What will be the future . Where do you see the organization three or five or ten years . The second part plays out in the last 20 years. s on the nra starts to rely more and more its all in the book and then to deal with the changing commercial sector around firearms and those that had a guy that you could sell a lot of one make a lot of money selling guns to households but virtually less than one third does and its going down in the gun industry now has to make expensive weapons to a smaller amount of people and so you better load up to have a private arsenal before they be in all the weapons then they start to be against background checks and then they vehemently oppose restrictions and then they get way out of step with their members that they are way out of step with the broad middle of the American Public the reason the gun industry they have atrophy the increasingly impotent and then to have a great job of exposing them. And the gun lobby is fighting for staff even its own members dont believe in and that is the consequence becoming reliant on the industry. I find this fascinating that the interest of the gun Industry Alliance with conservative and republican party. And with politics in the United States have a wellfunded with a special Interest Group and with the silent majority. So how do we overcome that . In the area of gun control . Part of that is having confidence we are right thats also the story of the 1984 midterm elections and that he lost control as they voted for the assault weapons ban that is not true it was wildly popular in 1984. Ronald reagan was one of the primary cheerleaders. They were all sorts of things the Clinton Administration did that were unpopular the assault weapons ban was not one of them but the nra did a wonderful job with the help of people like bill clinton to create this story it is the assault weapons ban causing democrats to lose. That created a new reality that over 20 years democrats stayed away because of the issue of guns and only recently we started to believe the polls and that they support restrictions on assault weapons and they use universal love universal background checks and then was a horrific episode of gun violence and then decides to run for a congressional seat in georgia she will not hold back as an anti gun violence advocate with the weapons ban on background checks and then she wins because guess what they like bands on military style weapons and background checks. Was just having faith and thats why we won control of the house in 2018 and they think the senate in 2020 and then to do it when i ran. Host moving from politics to policy, in the book, im sorry, a colleague of mine not only one gun violence problem but several we have urban gun violence and mass shooting and how are these challenges similar and different and each of them one at a time and then urban gun violence chapter in Mass Shootings and with Domestic Violence. And the country awash in guns you have easier access to a weapon you are more likely to shoot your wife or commit suicide and commit murder in a city or urban center we have to accept if we are smart enough and had less guns in the country all of those would come down. And with universal background checks in connecticut has four times less then florida and that is not coincidental to the fact that gun laws are much stronger and then you mentioned the differences. But then lets just take one. But gun homicide happens in this country primarily or most often to africanamerican. And then primarily is an epidemic with white males. And how we get to both places and then a handful of neighborhoods with high levels of illegal gun use where suicides are a real phenomenon it is probably connected to the last the economic power white males over the last 50 years. But alas of connection to your community and that connection to white males is substantial thats why you see more suicide frankly the result a black people in this country means they dont feel a sudden loss of connection or economic power but because they have this tremendous elevated rates and the racial criminal Justice System and other factors. So certain things connect them certain factors explain why they are different. You say you discuss urban and Domestic Violence and suicide all in one chapter but you give Mass Shootings a chapter of its own. Mass shootings killed 80 people and obviously each one was a horrible tragedy. But at the same time during that year there were 16000 other homicides so why the focus so much on Mass Shootings . Because the book devoted to the proportional amount of space so 80 percent of the book would be about suicide because that is where the vast majority are but what im trying to do is the entry point for Many Americans in the fact of the matter is if we like it or not the Mass Shootings do command the nations attention when they happen and they are the reason why all of a sudden today we have a movement that is on the precipice hoping the Gun Violence Movement in the black lives Matter Movement as we discussed in the book, you cannot make Real Progress on gun homicide rates without doing social and economic work and i do have a full chapter devoted to Mass Shootings so that is the reason people enter the amusement and thats why the organizations started that commands the attention on tv and thats what drives the legislative conference the moments we have gotten closest in the wake of sandy hook and el paso i dont like the fact this country only cares about gun violence with them as shooting and when that happens. And getting yelled at my first Public Meeting after sandy hook has no mom and dads stand up and say this is been happening for decades and now you care about it . Were have you been . I feel that. But i understand now people want to know in part of this movement. And mass shooe together. And increasingly, i wonder whether we cant elevate one or another. I think that is 100 right and that is a message that has been sent. They said they agreed more than anybody else i told the story of a young man who died two months before and i opened the book with history because i think its important for people to understand my awakening to this issue his life matters just as much as those that died in seeing the hook but his story occupied no space in the headlines. In the end, thi this but i hopes an attempt to acknowledge the we were able to pass strong gun laws in 2013 after sandy hook because they joined forces and literally marched together through the streets of the state and we ended up with a gun laws being changed for the better. I think the future here is in the movements. That corresponds to different policies and i think that one shows it isnt as responsive yet its more expensive to programs like focus you mentioned in the book. We have to remember this is about dollar and 12 legislation. Thats right and your work highlights the importance of this and thats why i try to make it clear that the the one thing that tracks exposure to violence more than anything else is income and poverty and frankly, that is a true across several buckets of gun violence weve talked about. You are more likely to be the victim of suicide or Domestic Violence and more likely to be the victim of homicide if you are lower income and so much of the solution is coming to this conclusion that economic desperation does often beget violence and whether its deterrence efforts which is a way to say we are going to identify atrisk populations and put resources into the populations, we will focus resources to give them pathways to success and its a sort of targeted way to solve the economic problems. I have a story from baltimore in which i was walking the streets arfor part of my book and a guy came up to me that said hed been shot multiple times himself and hes talking about fighters more violence happening and he says hunger, it hardens your heart and that becomes the headline of one of the sections in the book. You you do things to put food on the table that you wouldnt do otherwise. That explains many of these rates of violence in parts of the country. I think obviously poverty, lack of opportunity, but i also think that given what we have seen that these hyper focused programs identify the people and places and indirectly work with those populations of the i just want to make sure we dont use that as a substitute for broad economic reform. Its important to recognize in my opinion expended ammunition of understanding this could help lead to the suicide epidemic so i think these focused investments in these atrisk populations is i think a way to provide a temporary fix. And to recognize we have an economic crisis that is putting people in different desperate situations and in part is both the leaves to drive some of the stories of violence so i want to make sure we do the targeted interventions and have t that broad conversation as well. You cant divorce the broad issues that i think its important that when we are talking about violence that is infecting white americans we offer direct concrete solutions to the violence but when we have violence that disproportionately impacts like americans, things that will make a difference generations from now. We need all communities [inaudible] i want to turn to the moment they are in today. Its impossible to ignore the conflict in the country right now and you are well positioned to speak to this. How do we navigate our way through the current crisis. Theres been violence between leftwing protesters and counter protesters literally fighting in the streets with injuries and deaths on both sides. How do we stop it. If you were president , how would you get us out and what would you do if they wer you were joe . Guest people will notice we wrote the introduction to the book with a june 2028 because you want people to understand even though i wrote this a year ago, much of what we are seeing today has long historical roots in this country. Vigilante justice around for a long time and the rise of the ku klukukluxkuklux klan in the lat8 hundreds and early 19 hundreds if and the caravans of the cities today. The injustice for peace protesters. There is a Straight Line between the zoning laws putting in place the jim crow era the experience today in which black people and white people dont live with each other so a black mans experience cant be understood by a white Police Officer who has their knee on their neck so this book i hope its a way for people to understand how we got to this moment today and how if you dont understand about the past you can fix this country for the future. Just getting rid of donald trump will be a big step forward because the president has decided that his reelection hinges on the chaos being turned up right. So hes talking about going up to help the community heal, but to turn up the heat, to try to cause more riots he can claim this as a law and order election even though in part he contributed to this operation. Sthe separation. So that is a big step forward. But your question is what should the new administration can do. Again i think thaand i think thw administration should recognize the economic crisis that exists is a big part of the reason why this violence is occurring and the next administration should move quickly and think boldly about Police Reform. Ask yourself the question does every Law Enforcement officer need a firearm . Does every Emergency Response call require police . Can we reorient the way that we enforce the law such that there are not so many potential explosions of violence and then back up and think to ourselves how do we create a common understanding of our lives . Right now you are less likely to go to school as a white kid with a black kid in you for te then n years ago or 20 years ago. Our schools are becoming radically more segregated and so lets start thinking about how we go to school and permanent housing and live together so we can have more shared experiences in which i dont have to buy a book to understand what a black persons life is like and i have a neighbor who is African American or Asian American or latino. All of that has to be part of the policy. Let me press you a little bit further. You are the president right now and we are seeing this chaos in portland, seattle and other cities. What would you do right now, what would be the speech he would give in to the actions he would take . I think that its hard to creatharder tocreate a hypothete the moment has been created in part by a president that has been doing nothing. I would argue that we might not be in this moment if we had a president obama who would have early on helped the country heal and involve telegraphing we are going to take the blacklight sMatter Movement seriously not just in words but in deeds. Right now people are appreciative of the words being used by politicians, but they want action. So, they want a Police Reform bill passed. They want the nations gun laws and if i were president i would be championing those legislative efforts in using healing rhetoric. That doesnt immediately erase the pain it provides a tangible signal that we are going to change as a nation into right now the president is doing the exact opposite. Hes actually saying if you are going to fight housing segregation even harder hes going to fight any and all Police Accountability measures and hes going to go to these protests as a mechanism. That is the response that makes this worse and not better. Thank you for letting me press you on that. You called your book a template for action. What are three policy actions related to gun violence but if you had the vote and the budget hbudgetsthat they would take ri . Seem at first and foremost, universal background checks. No matter how strongly states come its only as strong as the weakest states because it is used for homicide in my state more often than not i think youll see a big ammunition with a National Requirement nobody buys a gun without a background check so that would be the first thing. Second i did pick up on where we were discussing they would have a National Investment and say every single community, we are going to identify the communities at risk and we are going to make an investment in those communities and give these kids a pathway to succeed and then probably given the moment e moment they are in iowa the pulldown on Police Reform. Its true one of the things is a lack of legitimacy in Law Enforcement. When you are in the city of los angeles and only 35 of homicides occur you start to think about whether you need to take justice into your own hands. A mother in baltimore lost her son and had no success Getting Police to take it seriously her sons friends would regularly come to her and say lets me go out there and deal with it and she said no im not going to put another family through this but thats what is going on when the police are not focused on solving crimes committed against people of color but instead are focused on rounding up people of color. Its Police Reform not just getting the police out of communities of color that i think its another big part of the solution so thats what i would say. Right now we have some calling for significant changes and some reformers calling for defending or abolishing the police and at the same time significant aspects of homicide in the nations cities on an order of 20 to 30 . Research by myself and other criminologists have documented this pretty well. And this is happening in communities of color between and among young men often involved in this type of violence an into some people believe that the police have a role to play in responding to that. How do we find our way out of this an if it feels like the Politics Today make it sort of impossible to find a reasonable middle ground. I dont think its impossible to find a reasonable middle ground. I spent time with the organizers in connecticut who have been holding rallies to try to understand what they mean by that. They acknowledged that of course there has to be a mechanism by which to enforce the law. Their belief is that the current structure is so broken it cant just be reform. We have to rebuild the wall at first but from the ground up. Its important to understand its not suggesting that there should be no enforcement of law. They are simply saying that the existing structure is so broken beyond repair boy and we have to rebuild it again if whether or not we are going to do that, i think that they should be bold in the way that we think about how the laws are enforced. Okay what is a Domestic Violence call really and everything does it need a Police Officer with a weapon, do they need police we e officers in school today . We want our schools to be safe, but those that require a Police Officer with a weapon to be in the schools to arrest kids for bringing minor drug offenses are breaching the peace when they get into an argument with an assistant principal . I do think that while i dont support eliminating the police but i do think that we should have some pretty comprehensive conversations about how to rebuild the way we reinforce the wall. Guest host absolutely. I want to wrap up with a final question. In your book, you issue a call to action and basically tell the reader if you are moved by this book, just do something, that is to peer agrees with say in one of the final chapters. What are a few things, two or three things the average person can do right now to save lives . Guest i talk a lot about in my book the guild that i feel today for having been a late convert to the movement. A young mathe young man i spoket occupied the first chapter of the book was 20yearsold when he was called by another 20yearold on the 20th day of october, 2012, 20 victim of gun violence in fact in that city. He was killed over a fight over a girl. He was going to do a transaction with a customer. He was in the car flipping business and he was going to collect the last payment on a car into the group that was surrounding the customer started mouthing off about shanes girlfriend and shane fought on behalf of the girl, he threw a punch. The kid went back to his car, got an illegal gun, fired up chain and he ran away and later died at the hospital. He grew up 2 miles away from me from where i grew up. My life growing up in a peaceful suburb had nothing to do with shanes life growing up. I told the story of his life curving up. He was constantly dealing with the threat of violence and he had to become a good fighter even with one arm that could work to protect himself and he ends up dead at age 20. I decided to structure my life in a way that now i spent huge amounts of my time working to try to make up for lost time. Thats why i ran for another term in the senate to pass laws like the ones we talked about to make sure there are no more like shane oliver did you dont have to run for the senate. All you have to do is go online to sign up to become a member. All you have to do is run for local office. Just decided to be a member of your board of education and make sure that your school is investing in the kind of programming that get gives you d get kids out of poverty. All you have to do is Pay Attention to businesses. There are National Campaigns right now against organizations and retail establishments have refused to keep guns out of the stores. You can be part of that moveme movement. You can make a donation to the candidate. Theres all sorts of things you can do. 90 of americans believe in universal background checks. What they lack is a Political Movement that is Strong Enough to actually get the changes made. And we are so close to being Strong Enough. The most important thing we can all do is devote the next election. Its a little bit trickier this time than it was last time around so everybody has to make a plan to vote and figured out if you are going to vote by absentee or mailin voting. Make sure you know where your polling place. But this year when democracy is on the ballot, when the future of the trajectory, everybodys got to get out there and cast their vote. Thank you for appearing on the program today and are answering mansweringmy questionr writing the book and thank you to your advocacy and leadership on this extremely important issue. Is there anything ive missed anything ive left out or that you would like to share with the audience before they go . Guest iem just grateful to be part of a movement that has grown as quickly and this robustly. I always say the greatest social change movement that you read about in the history books are not those that succeeded right off the bat. They hit roadblock after roadblock, failure after failure and maybe we wont pass all of them. But giving u up is what elevates you. Its persevering and consciousness in the righteousness of your cause and being educated, taking the time to get educated about your cause that proves successful and i hope that this book gets more people to become active but also gives them the fact to any arguments necessary. Thank you again, senator. Guest