Transcripts For CSPAN2 Heather Cox Richardson How The South

Brooklyn Historical Society a cultural hub for civic dialogue for over 150 years. The Washington Post right professor at Boston College and then with modern conservativism. And with that coalition of the h century. And then the prevalence of sexism and the quality for the civil war. And then they would be persuade persuaded. I am really excited to be here but first woman to share your questions for heather and in the q a box that as a whole the last about an hour. Now its my great pleasure to introduce Heather Cox Richardson author of six books of american politics and writer of the newsletters. Welcome heather. Im here. Trying to unmute myself also first of all thank you to brooklyn Historical Society but also to say im incredibly excited about this because the first time joann and i do her own thing to gather i asked her not only my but the talk about her new book as well but also how the past speaks to the current moment and whats going on in american politics today. We will talk about my book and her book and also the first moment and that we are only limited to an hour but thank you for giving this a shot. Im excited to be here. This will be fun. It seems like an obvious question that one that people are wondering, even the two little blips that i read to use words like provocative so how is it you came to write this book . Given out timely it is . What i study is that i read politics all the time and they say how people are thinking about things and to end up on that but the history of the Republican Party when i read that conscience of the conservative it was so similar to the speech in 1858 how from the a few good people in the government cannot be involved and then destroy certain peoples liberties and they were very very similar. And i was teaching the trail of tears pushing out native americans out of the southeast and oklahoma. So in that particular week of that conversation of why it was a good thing for the unions to lose their land and why this they had to do this happened to be the sum week that some Football Player was caught on a video dragging that girlfriend out of the elevator by her hair. But the language was the exact same and there was no excuse for him dragging her out by her hair. But then talking about why the indians deserve to be push into oklahoma and it says to me this says something about the day now that the power struggles in the past and what i wanted to get to is what created those power struggles and how did we end up in that moment today like the confederates had founded in the 18 fifties so how language creates power structure that to me is that it speaks very much to what you did talking about the importance of a motion and how the coming of the civil war had to do with the motion. So how did you write that . You are right although the book is about physical violence and the logic and the impac impact, what struck me was i knew it would be about congress and violence but the language people were throwing around in the response even just in the historical record we could see how they strategically were using language for those that disagreed with them. Because that relied on emotion. And then to shape what anyone is able to do and what i was doing in my book is looking at the real dynamics and how that was shaping politics overall. You use the word bullying over and over. In the way that takes shape is through language. The way you put things and say things and we talk about gas lighting shaping the world to establish dominance and bully them. It is astonishing the parallels of the past and where we are right now. Even in the realm of bullying. And the reason why its effective in politics is you dont have to exert force that make them thank you could if you wanted to. Its about the threat. And that we could do really ugly things if we wanted to that we just have to be sure the person being bullied understands that its the good way to manipulate people if it works. Do me a favor. [laughter] i will do it but i need you to do me a favor. Because i could do this to you or i could do something to you. Yes. Or we could get along as long as you do what i want you to do. One of the things that we both share is the power of language and we take it for granted but its such a force of shaping politics so what is the moment that language had a shaping influence . It shows up everywhere. Its very hard to say this matters because you cannot quantify. They say but you never quantify how this talk was important. I said i understand that they can you stand there right now and tell me Rush Limbaugh doesnt matter quick. Of course he matters that we cant measure that. Shouldnt we study that . So in 1954 because so much happened right after joe mccarthy crashes and burns in the mccarthy hearings they dont just hear him is not just the language but they see him and say he is a crusader for anti communism he is a bully and we dont want any part of him. After that they come out with the book mccarthy and his enemy. They say he is rough around the edges but he is right what we considered the Birther Movement because that was never a traditional conservativism and we see that play out right now. So we conservatives have to stand against liberalism meaning everybody else. All democrats, eisenhower republicans when that looks terrific with the interstate highways and the g. I. Bill and they didnt do as much of people of color but those not even that are skilled workers but because of the g. I. Bill the engineers or printers that was not attainable during the depression. So they write this book and say we conservatives is basically everybody else. And when they capitalize and people talk generally were all of her all. You can even talk about liberalism. We believe the government has a role to play to regulate business and promote infrastructure like the interstate highway. So everybody thought of themselves as liberal. These guys are the communist party in china and they take over america. People think that mccarthy is a good guy . But by now the adi being a liberal remember being called the l word . And now it is an epithet and you can see that being constructed. In the 19 nineties Newt Gingrich Political Action committee was in charge and then tried to socialize. So they actually circulate a document with all the words they should use when they talk about democrats like trader, lazy, special interest, angry and really negative words and then talk about republicans and they are patriots, fiscally responsibl responsible, family, happy , and you can literally see the moment of which they write out all of the traditional republicans. And also republicans in name only. Important language. And then to divide the country into labeling half as negative and have as positive. But im trying to remember you talk about a similar touchtone didnt you . Certainly. Creating a new we by creating a new them suggest to capitalize those words to suggest there is a and it and to capitalize and the power of that it doesnt even necessarily have the awareness but they do just by looking at it and i gets back to politics because if you are really effective at that skill not just in us and a them to put into emotions that will play well and that is a direct drill. And things that you wont necessarily process. So in my first book. By the way i loved it. One of the factors of democracy is how important languages. It is that negotiating power so by definition inflexible. And then Federalist Party in the 17 nineties more elitist. So in the speech and then to use the word aristocrat and then there is a whole cascade of things even with that bag edge attached to it is the way that shapes power and politics stricken ear in the 21st century its another great moment people are not that concerned about taxes in the eighties but if you talk about taxes it conjures up an idea that somehow those of hardworking white people goes to the pockets of lazy people of color in feminist. Even have a conversation by a political operative, lee atwater who says by 1968 you cant use racial epithet even though he does. You cannot say vote for me or you have to deal with this. He says we generalize debt. If you talk about busing people know what you take about on talk about that now you talk about taxes people say i care about taxes. It is not carrying the baggage of this long history of american in fear. But the reality is by 1980 in the politicians where they will never raise taxes and the democrats want to take money from the makers and give it to the takers is coded language. Even now with social welfare legislation is do you want your taxes raised . It is right on the table with a three letter word and to deploy that is a certain case of politics. And then to see on social media they will say no. Thats not necessary but it is meant to have a coded message. And it shows the power of that. You can say thats not what i meant. I remember what people started using the white powers symbol and we use that as the okay symbol. Then you start to see you and think oh my gosh. But it took that. Of ambiguity if you said it was white powers symbol especially the older people saying you are social justice warriors but it was in such a way it was double the powerful not only calling your people to you but if anybody called you out then they would say you are being paranoid but thats how language works and gas lighting thats how it works exactly. And that early. But by some logic to some people you declare your loyalty and planted yourself somewhere just by asking the question. It is a fair question that flies into us versus them. Those people at the time understood the power and in the late 18 fifties i found a lot of members of congress say to each other we have to control our words. And worried if the union would collapse and then have that testimony for that power on a high level and popular level but then to say we will have bloodshed. So the power of that is so easy not to acknowledge it. In the 19th century we studied rhetoric like chamberlin the professor frederick literally studied using words to mobilize populations and we let that go in the early 20th century. The whole series of books on history and the fact that we to have the study but also for it to be deployed to act in such a way that most americans dont think about it is problematic. But there is it is really really misleading that is not historically accurate and makes people sound like they say things they are not. And misusing the quotation mark. It is true but he left out a word. But and if you can tell us somebody is being manipulative. So once and this book in 1951 was rich in culture believers. Everybody is worried about hitler and mussolini. Every generation in certain areas people will listen to them. So that is absolutely done by language, then you have to weaponize it. So than in the 18 fifties the four stages of how you go from its in my interest to how that turns into a societal view. And then we probably should not vote and they really shouldnt have power. And those who are defined as the others they end up killing them. But it is a four stage process. How do you know when you are being manipulated . And it speaks and that is an important place to go. How do people know they are being manipulated . Its a good question. The most consistent question because i only look or even those that but students get to a point where they get confused. How do i know . They know what they say and when they say it to have an impact. Is it adds a but in parma answers the question has to do with being aware of details surrounding context and not spend in the way you are expected to. But rather if you could step back and think to focus on the details by that you are thinking about evidence and the circumstances for its meaning. But you have to think about it. And particularly now when but for them to decide what the facts are. And then to step back and consider because its hard it is confusing. But the truth of reality but it creates a particular kind of moment in politics everybody once the who, what, whe who, what, when, where, why. But i say step back. Do you think your neighbors are keeping bbs in the basement . Do you really think this would have happened . Because so much of what we hear and of course this is in the 18 fifties but you think oh my god. Really cracks i just met a lot of people in my life and to my knowledge people never. That is not normal behavior. Thats the first stage but its funny that i tell you that because of this pandemic i am sitting on property that belongs to the woman who told me this. She was born 1896 and have people think about this and republicans believe this and she would say who was getting the money and giving it . She said he was saying follow the money. Followed the money. That is that we see all the time people say is this real . Is this real . Think about who makes the money from that. I get this all the time. You only say the things you do because you are so highly paid. I have no complaints and make a very good living but somehow sean hannity is telling the truth . How is she on the internet . I promise you im a published professor im not giving sean hannity a run for his money. You may want to say who is making money from this particular video and who will stand to gain with the legislation put in place. And doing wonderful things for the farmers. Because i cant say anything. I can tell you it is snowing outside that does it mean that it isnt. Both the 18 fifties brings to the table is that if youre not swept up in the emotional language then how do you step out of it . I think both era talks about examining who is talking and why and what emotions it triggers. Does it make you feel angry and afraid and miserable . But that you can do something thats an important distinction. Will it really bl sharia law in oklahoma . Ive never heard anybody even talk about it. And then he makes the rounds but it can happen i can see it. [laughter] right. In one way or another to plug into the reality is to ask that question. Just recently someone on twitter proclaimed they are all like that. And they are out for no good and only out for many. My response was am i evil . We engage all the time. No you are not. So then who fits into that and why do you say that . Because on the one hand it is a way to decode something that you can also see how it could contribute to conspiracy theories and with this kind of woman with this kind of woman and that people fundamentally they want to understand how and why they work the ways they do and that is a conspiracy to explain it. I never understood that. I am not a conspiracy person. Im very much ask questions until we get to the base. But if you want to understand conspiracy and how things really work, they are around you. To really get into somethin something, look at the history of the post office. And entangled complicated story why do you manufacture something when there is so much real stuff that is fascinating . I was talking just yesterday of the iraq war. She abd it. It was every where. So i always wondered about conspiracy theorists because if you want to get involved in stuff and look at the leverage of power at all right there. It doesnt have to happen in the basement of a pizza parlor or the idea that somehow somebody planted a birth certificate in hawaii. Its now uncovered by it or medical researcher. A day no more by their own thing and that is deeply problematic because as i said to somebody yesterday experts can be prick prickly. I think you and i are fairly approachable, but certainly i come and im sure that you have experiences asking a simple question to an expert and they treated you like you are the stupidest, like its just always mortifying no matter how it happens. So some of them can be difficult, but i dont think i have ever met a real expert who wasnt deeply profoundly in love with their topic and the truth. You dont have to b be their friend, buthere forhim, but thew some researcher who is pulling down 30,000 a year tops is working e. Hour weeks because somehow saw the payroll of big pharma. The idea that somehow this poor researcher at the university of nebraska is a part of some conspiracy is a divorce from reality. It validates the assumption and predates a story. The people that you talk about they are so passionate about it they are neat and tidy and the strugglstruggle and fight and te complexity and ambiguity is a that is what i love to do a two guys are mad at each other and go to the field and one shoots up the other and then it is resolved. The logic of it is logical because they are risking their lives for that logic. Let me figure out things like education and political power and all these things get mixed in and it makes perfect sense but its far more interesting than the period they hated each other and what a rough time that was. That doesnt tell you about the tying period. One of the things we do in history everything we pass is good or bad. Human beings are mixed in our history is mixed into one of the things about the polarizing language we are talking about one of the passages in that language is that it takes away the ambiguity of what human beings really are. Your heroes come from nowhere. Nobody wakes up one morning and says im going to be a real jerk today. They say im going to go protect my family. Nobody sees himself as a fill fillin. For the most part, the kind of regular people that you talk about goes into washington and is just a regular nice guy and by the end of the book he didnt speak up and say im going to be a warrior to a quickie book of considering going to go about my day and gradually got radicalized. The opposite is also true, people put their feet on the ground. You read in their sort of wife like he did this and she did that and she did that and i hate to give away a spoiler but one because she goes to bed and rolled by the japanese. She cant be there and shes like no, no, i cant. Ive got to go home. So in a pan attack she gets a panic attack she gets put in the position and shes terrified without being discovered, she watches the movements of the occupiers the whole time and when she emerges, she has information nobody else has. She didnt have to wake up to say im going to be a hero and refuse to be enrolled. The people are like where are our heroes, they are us. You might be putting your feet on the ground today thinking that you are just going to go to downtown and when push comes to shove and you have to make a distinction between doing what is right and doing what is wrong, if you choose what is right, that is the first step to being a hero and that is the peace i feel like this kind of f gotten lost in the sweeping narratives where you are either good or bad. No, you are both. Host when you look over the broad sweep of americans, there is a tendency often among some people to try to find the golden period, the good period. When it was all good and happy in the pentagon after that point. And of course there is no golden moment. There was august 13, but that moment doesnt exist. There are always compromises being made, people making good choices and bad choices