Support. Without your support we wouldnt be where you are. The fiscal story weve been open for two weeks so wear a mask and stop by if youre in the area. Tonight, were excited to have with us Julian Zelizer celebrating the release of his book burning down the house. A professor of history and Public Affairs of Princeton University and cnn political analyst. Here is his most recent book. A haltline coshopped by the plymouth, president john and the battle for the best look. He had about with the guing guggenheim mountains and of america. Hell be joined by kevin cruz. Suburban history in the 20th Century America so just on conflicts of rights, race and religion, he is particularly interested in segregation and the Civil Rights Movement as well as the rights in the region, excuse me, provides the religious national and the making of modern. His book crease making one nation under god and Christian America and recently published. The president was honored as one of americas top young innovators, by the smithion magazines and one of the top historicio historians. And John Guggenheim fellowship, tongue twisters today. Juli julian. Well have a chat here and pretend that hundreds of people arent lurking in the background. It good to see you. You know, as we just heard we worked together on a book called faultlines, and thats to the present. And Newt Gingrich was a part of that. I think that a lot of people, americans, the audience we used worldwide. Probably only Newt Gingrich. He had two decades of political activism and a career in congress before that. Tell me about young Newt Gingrich. Or youngest Newt Gingrich. When he started in congress, what he was look and where he was coming from . Yes, first, welcome to everyone and thanks for joining us. Its nice to see people from all over, but gingrich was quite a character. He had been an army brad. You know, kind of grew up living in different parts of europe. His family was originally from outside of harrisburg, pennsylvania. Working class area that was republican and he ended up in georgia. He went to emery. He married his High School Math teacher and he then went to tulane where he got a ph. D. In history and study colonialism, colonial policy and then he moved to his first job because as we did. West georgia college. He never really liked academia. Within a year he wants to be the president of the college and the head of the department and he runs for congress and hes one of the first republicans in the area youve studied, in a democratic area and hes part of that cowho are the of residentials who want to make the south red instead of blue. Though these are modern color schemes. Its his third try and there was a Vicious Campaign to what he would do. His opponent virginia stafford. At one point she indicated shes going to move to d. C. Ab her family will live in the district and they can have his life and he could have the business. And he puts together above moral values and that was a low blow. Hes in congress and we can talk about it, but by the early 1980s, hes basically saying republicans need to do whatever is necessary to regain power after being the Minority Party since 1954 and he starts to do outlandish things as part of partis partisanship. And hes the ripping leader of, the society. Gel us about it. So he organizations. Hes not really an organization. He doesnt wan to be on committee he just wants to get his message out. Hes strategic enough to believe its a caw cushion of likeminded people who are willing to do something that he did and someone, another republican pretty eager to take on the democrats and stop listening to always calls for bipartisan. He has a small cohort and starts over time, started with 12 and they would grow. And when gingrich, how about that interview . Theyre part of that team. In some way theyre foot shoulders ford reagan revolution, the most aggressive bunch and theyre trying to shake up their own party saying we have to do things in ways that are outside of the washington box if were going to win. Two things are standing in our way, the democrats and republicans . Thats right, and the tension was, in march of this period that i write about, the house normal leader, a guy named michael, hes been there for a while. Doesnt like the sape the phones. He believes in bipartisanship and he hated him almost as almost as tip oneil and jim rice. And gingrich gets around the leadership kind of blocking him, which is getting all about. And tell us about the media. Learn how he tried to get that new college out . Why this is before the conservative world that we know exists. There is conservative talk radio and its extended during my story. Fox news doesnt exist yet. Theres no internet, websites like breitbart. So he uses the Mainstream Media as its called today. Now for newspapers, Cable Television as its school. And one of the stories they tell in the book which i used to talk about, we had the class and i would tell the story and i realized its probably a good book here. It was in 1984 and he and his group, a conservative opportunity society, they realized at the end of the day, anyone who had to go to the front of the house, the chamber and make a peach, ear called one minute. And so they began going to the floor and they made these features and they were blistering. They started to say democrats are weak on defense. Democrats dont support reagans war with communism. And with a new cspan, they named a democrat, eddie bolen, how do you respond to this . Whats your answer . And the chime ber was silent. If you were watching on c spahn. It looks like 0 no one knows, and the rules are put the cameras on the speaker. And tip oneill gets so mad, speaker of the house, he bursts in and he ordered panning the chamber, no one is there. And gingrich turns it against him. Look be tip oneill, hes the party thats corrupt and establishment. And oneill gets angry remember, and he has a speech and lowest in his career what gingrich was doing to the democrats and the republicans had his comments struck from the record saying the spe speak speaking unappropriatery. And all the networks were covering it, abc, nbc, cbs, and thats ultimately what gingrich wanted and he couldnt be more pleased. He used the stories to the media and around his own partys warning and sneer what the democrats are about. You mentioned reagans sparring partner in the 80s. Theres this, i guess, somewhat of a myth of the kind of clubby relationship they had. They were two old irish politicians who got along after hours. Gingrich blows all that up, right . So how does gingrich and the people around him really impact that relationship that reagan and oneill had in both fact and fiction . Yeah, i mean, theres a lot of fiction to that. He didnt like what reagan was doing to the country and thought he was much too far to the right in terms of Economic Policy and social policy, but it was true to i think that leaders in both parties, the bob michaels, tip oneill. They balanced the power with government. And they were making that tradeoff and helped them understand when are you going too far . They didnt want to go so far they would destroy the institutions and procedures and the relationships that were simply necessary to govern. Gingrich said slow it out of the window. Hed write not without bipartisan, and he said and to teach republicans to be more aggressive, to be more confrontational, to stop negotiating with the republicans. And this starts as a hes seen as a mccarthyite, really, thats how people talk about him. But what happens in the 80s, its interesting. Gradually more and more republicans are listening to him. The more he has the task particulars, the more. And whats costly there. Do i want it so much and enter into alliances and people who are dangerous to the institution. There are parallels between gingrichs rise and atwater, in 88. Whats their relationship like . Its an important relationship and they directly come into contact so the heart of the book that i hope everyone buys and enjoys from the strand. But the harder the book resolves around din grinch, after this incident and conflict with the democrats, in 1987 tip oneill retired and theres a new speaker, tim rice, majority leader from texas. He was an old school democrat. He was a liberal and he believed he was defending chance. And it was a good target for gingrich who wanted to focus on the theme that democrats were a crept establishment. And there are stories with question, with people in the district. And in both of the groups that he spoke to, and there were these a bit odd stories or didnt sit quite right. So gingrich uses these and he whips washington up into a frenzy, saying that jim wright is the most corrupt speaker ever in american history. It was really a pretty small story about misbehavior or questionable behavior. So thats the heart of the story. Then in 1988, this is another time that the Party Establishment sees the value of gingrich. Who is running for president. George h. W. Bush and the vicepresident. And is opponent, mike dukakis says hes too easy, the reagan administration. Iran can tra sn that controversy, and lee atwater was putting together a campaign displaying racial backlash, a character assassination kind of campaign. In may when bush is struggling in the poles, he picks up on this story and convinces bush to talk about jim wright all the time and take this story that had been on the fringes and mainstream it into the campaign. Atwater saw politics like gingri gingrich. It was about story telling. Gingrich was a historian that understood what it was about. And lee did thewater was a fan of wrestling and politics should be run accordingly. I want to go back, for people who dont follow the story, the thought in the late 80s, there was a House Speaker who was a liberal texan, democrat its going to seem like a he was older born in 1922. And gingrich born in 1943, so hes older. Hes very much a democrat who sub describes to what the new deal represented, pretty much on board with the gray society. He did have moments on the civil rights. And he believes its going to cost him his seat. Later apologetic about this and thought it was one of the great mistakes of his career. But by the 70s and 80s, hes pretty liberal. A little hawkish on foreign policy, but he accepts most of what lynn done fdr through Lyndon Johnson had put together. So, yes, its hard to imagine a Texas Democrat like that but thats who he was. And he very much saw Ronald Reagan as a danger, and this is a Counter Point some of the mythology of 1980s. He really thought that reagan was pretty right wong and taking steps dangerous to the tab brick of the country and overseas. And the support of the nicaragua and an opportunity to negotiate peace. He pursues on his own that reagan didnt care about. He wasnt someone well liked personally. Even democrats didnt like him. He was cold, he was removed and that hurt him and he was old school. Pr pre how some of the things would look in the ideas of the media and washington. He wasnt corrupt, but he operated in that area of gray that many politicians did which could be used against him once. And the irony of Newt Gingrich lobbing charges. And since his own life was, shall we say, riddled with some of its own problems. Talk about that. How did gingrichs own character issues surface here . He had lots of character issues, not only did they have them, they were public. They were written in the media. There are two dreams of problems. One, he has the relationship, a difficult divorce with his High School Math teacher and there was a story about it in mother jones 1984 trying to capture what gingrich was like personally. One of the stories that caught peoples eye, while his wife was in the hospital for cancer surgery, he came to discuss divorce with her. And in the article, actually kind of whipped out the papers which wasnt exactly true although he did have these discussions in the hospital and he was also known to be someone with a roving eye and who had an affair and this was known in washington and matter given that he was part of this Huge Movement with the northerly majority at its business. At the time hes going after speaker wright telling his books to make money. He himself is being charged from Interest Groups on what he wrote. And at the climatic moments of this where he is bringing him down. He doesnt care, a remarkable part of his psychology. When he told them, its the same, its different. We can see with the democrats its much more damaging. Winning that one of the gifts that gingrich got was not interesting a republican president in office and running basically against a democratic president in bill clinton. How does gingrich make hay out of the early years of the Clinton Presidency . Thats a good its a good connection with the two decades. In some ways jim wright comes first and bill clinton second. One of the most remarkable parts of the book, just to move back wards eastern, how consistent and strategic he was and how he would attack the democrats. And its not liberals versus conservatives a lot of this is anger, in the electorate, he turns the watergate story against that and he comes back to this because he thinks it will resonate. His populist message. And wright becomes of the embodiment in his mind of everything hes been saying since 1974. He draws a picture, creates a character and then brings him do down. And i think that after bill clinton was elected he very much attempts to do the same with bill clinton. He made bill clinton the embodiment, not so much of a corrupt democratic establishment, hed moved on to a more morally corrupt and whatever he wanted to focus on, i think he nighed to do the same. Im sure his experience with wright emboldened him, that is to say we can move forward with impeachment and it may very well work. The big moment for gingrich of course was 1994, right . So talk about how that Campaign Takes shape. Was it a national election, and what kind of role did it may and how did gingrich spin that . No, it is an important election and one of the things that gingrich does, he national nieses the mid term complains effectively and he uses the things he learned in the 80s, why and the most famous element of the campaign for everyone who studied it as a contract in america, its something of a media gimmick. It was a set of promises that republicans were making and if they won they would enact them. That was their first 100 days. And it was a tearout guide. There was a rally on the steps of the capital with republicans either to talk about the america. And you see him put together conservative politics with a medial centered politics that plays great waves on the republicans stories were going to tell about their opponent and the language theyre going to usement and when republicans take over in 94. Its a big deal in washington. Its the First Time Since 1954 when eisenhower is in office, that democrats controlled both chambers of republicans controlled both chambers of congress and its almost the second step of the reagan revolution in their minds. For conservatives its a big moment and back when gingrich could bring all the tools and strategies, and the rhetorical weapons he had been working on since the 80s, intoed into the very top, speaker of the house. You mentioned the 1994 campaign and thats one of the important things that weve talked about. Talk about the frank lutzs memo. How cost that affect that and how the Republican Party went forward . Its a fascinating memo. You can still google it if you want to look at it yourself. Before that, that memo comes out in 1990. Gingrichs language through the 80s had been pretty remark and and he called the democrats basically accused them of un patriotic actions. And he basically made me a criminal. And shape them in a way, and by using language like that the media could nt resist. And he said that the media liked indiana jones, the adventure and the thrill. So this memo comes out in 1990. Gingrich controlled something called go pac which he took over in 1984. It was a defunct Political Action committee essentially and he rebuilt it and use it had to distribute audio cassettes to republicans, teaching them what to do in memos. And this memo in 1990 was written and said to republican candidates, if you want to speak like newt these are the words you need to use talking about democrats. Sick, traitor, slime, radical. Really, words even today, you kind of step back, but it was very important and i think through gingrich and his use of those words, not as a bomb throw thrower politically. Just looking at certain twitter feed he won out and his style resonates. So gingrich legitimizes that language and legitimizes to an extent, george w. Bush had as well. And people like russ limbaugh. And what about gingrichs with the media and in the 90s when limbaugh is at his peak and fox news is formed in 96, and what is with this media. Very close. And when conservative talk radio is flourishing in 87, 88, 89 after the fairness doctrine is dismantled and gingrich relies on what hosts are saying about the people like jim wright. Theyre tough on him and they amplify the mental. Theres an effort to raise congressional salaries in 1989. So jim wright is in the middle of it and conservative talk radio has a revolt. They call it a Tea Party Revolt by the way, all over the country, theyre lashing out and helps gingrich in this cause. And gingrich is in those years,very died tied into talk radio. There was the origins of crossfire on cnn. Then as the speaker, hes very close to people like rush, literally, they coordinate messages for the day and he depends on conservative talk radio and fox on the tell end, during his battle against bill clinton, but whats interesting, he comes first and i say we often think as conservative media, as the origins of this very smashmouth form of rhetoric, but in fact, i think that roger ailes and s