Recognize the wonderful work you have done as an author and activist and as a political operative yourself. I do believe it will get the book that you have written and provided us with insight that is oftentimes not part of the political politics but welcome. Guest thank you so much. I am so happy to see you. I know all of us arent quarantined so its nice to see peoples faces and to see they are safe and healthy because it is scary times. Happy to be here. Host i wanted to get started and all the work youre doing is so relevant and i thank you have the bona fide and work part of the hilary quinn to campaign and you have your own progressive show and those of us both got to know each other because we both provide analysis on an msnbc and yet if the campaigns and the Mainstream Media we forget the narratives that are propelling this action we are seen in the streets and hopefully will translate to the voting booth. Lets talk about what that means. I know in your book you touch on identity politics as embracing identities other than those that are white, male or hetero normative. One Clinical Campaign based on need and experiences of those identities. You shared this is the future. What does it take to have understanding of what a tentative politics really are . Guest i think after 2016 in particular identity politics got a bad rap. There was a time originally coined by feminists in 1937 who lay out and articulate how people who have marginalized identities can, you know, build coalitions to obtain political power and one of the things after 2016 we did it say Hillary Clinton paid identity politics by talking about Racial Justice and talking about White Privilege openly and directly in talking about the deferring identities of people with event abilities and she had a rip in her thumb about identities and how it intersects. What we didnt realize in 2016 is that she was talking about identity politics but so was donald trump. Donald trump was talking about white identity and too often politics we sent her whiteness or sensor white voters and in every single aspect of our political conversation in the message and so my book basically lays out the fact that weight, hold up, we cant criticize identity politics just because its finally black people and latin ask people asserting their rights to pertain political power and representation just because we are doing it doesnt make it a bad thing. Donald top utilized it to his benefit and weights, we will be the majority soon so maybe host good i cut and, thats often times talk about identity politics is oftentimes divorced from economic inequities but that really is the underlying. If i apply for a job and im discriminated against based on who i love that affects my economic but if i cannot get a promotion because of the color of my skin or because i havent accent that is an economic injustice. Talk about this because when trump talks about white grievance he does it in a coded way but in the end of the day its because everyone feels like they have less Economic Opportunity so lets talk about that. Guest i feel like what he played upon was economic anxiety in the country and in covid we are seen that unfold because people lost their jobs and Health Insurance and a sense of security that they once baby only had a piece up and out they deftly know that is an illusion print one of the things we think to understand in this moment and with don prompted is that he played into the anxiety and the real anxiety of people feeling because we just were coming out of the greatest recession before covid since the Great Depression and i was impacting workingclass people and the majority of minimum wage workers are women of color. It is impacting particular communities and their ability to take care of themselves and their families. But donald trump played into a real grievance, i think, and a feeling of insecurity that pitted white voters against everyone else saying those people over there, those latinx people, black people, those people were the reason why you feel less secure and your household and that is why you feel that you have less economic security. He pitted different people and that is why people describe in 2016 campaign as divisive. I think that the reason why it worked is because america does have to deal with, and a real way, part of that is why there is a racial reckoning in this moment is the history we have had on race and racism and white supremacy. Host and it is rooted in our institutions and rooted even in our political operatives on both sides of the aisle. Speak to that experience as a political operative being the only oftentimes only woman of color and oftentimes the only young person trying to change a democratic machine that oftentimes only brings and consultants from the midwest and oftentimes relate their own experience. Guest yeah, sometimes frustrating on campaigns but i do think in the Hillary Campaign you will see in the book it was very diverse. In terms of comparing it to other president ial campaigns in more black women in the campaign in history and many people from different trinities but the problem is with an organization of that size what ends up happening is youre still the only black person in the meeting and Running Campaign against donald trump who is explicitly racist and divisive on that issue specifically. Its important to have people in the roles that come from that background and are being directly attacked and to understand White Privilege and waits of primacy and how it manifests in our world and how it impacts peoples lives and how it is infused in our policies and in our messaging and media and how all of that works together and for me on the inside it was like, you know, filling in the void like am i the only one host sometimes . [laughter] lets be honest, one of the challenges it is so difficult because 40 of america are people of color. 135 million of us are strong and that my children who are seven, eight and six represent the first majority Minority Community but if you are to look at the fact that 40 of us are the ones that color of community but when it comes to electing a democrat if it affects disproportionately white women that bring in that president ial power but those numbers and that parity is not reflected in those campaigns. Guest absolutely not. That is one of the ones i highlighted that we focus in on the highlights for you dont need to win a majority of the white or a president ial election but this all breaks down with congressional districts depending upon the particular constituency but for the most part you are on the democratic side or Diverse Communities but black ground young people, single or unmarried women or single women married white women were republican and we look at the data and who voted for who and who is formally on our side. Guest white males have not voted the majority. Theyre not voted for a democratic president since lbj that is how do we bring those trump voters back but what im hearing you say and what is on my experience why focus on the decrease while you have a whole open market of unregistered disproportionately young people of color that would welcome your politics because that is what they are protesting. Guest what i think weve seen in the covid area and youve seen so many people go into the streets and these movements and protests are being led by young woman woman of color and a love that it is so inspiring but part of what i think the Democratic Party has an opportunity in this moment. You can gauge both people directly on the issues that they care about because ultimately i think there are shared goals but they may not be specific bill or whatever medicare for all policy and the details but certainly Health Insurance for more people is something everybody agrees upon, equality and justice upon the law or things that are people protesting and they can all agree upon those goals. What is missing is being represented within campaigns in one of the things we talk about is there is no campaign for little black kids but when they wrote the book there were a few examples of Campaign Organizations like kohler pack and organizations that just preferred doing work and training people to run for office but i really think the punchline of young staffers of color but if you have graduated and dont have your internship or your High School Student waiting to go back to School Getting back to the campaign virtually because that hands on expansive allows people to impact the world around them and sometimes people only think of testing and activism is a way to be engaged but i also think working on campaigns to your point about the fact that you can beat the only one and you would be the only one if we had everyone going into campaigns to try to work there. Host what is your advice for the first diversification in the campaigns . You and i both know that he gets to a certain point that it is sort of like oftentimes its not the person wellversed or the person you know so how do they break through and one of my critiques historically in many campaigns is that they bring in these bright young people of color to knock on doors and do all the work but then they dont see them in leadership roles but they do see them in the roles that are not necessarily passionate but not necessarily the best paid. Guest that the good point to. In 2016 on the campaign we talked about traditionally how democratic campaigns with put people of color in the field out in the community and the optics of that is all wrong and that they staged a protest in 1988 was essentially the first impact we need to be at the seat of power or the table where provisions are being made. Part of that is putting them in all different aspects of the campaign and one of the cooler things about the 16 campaign, even though i have certain critiques of it is the presence of black women in the tech and Digital Department with a black woman created time or a black woman coated the website and Hillary Clinton. Com so just understanding that you need those people reflected in all aspects because then you also, you know, you have that diverse set of eyes and those blind spots that always come up when it campaign may put out messaging that is tone deaf or misses the mark and you will have people in their to make sure you dont have so many missteps as well. Host what would your recommendation to the Joe Biden Campaign . What would your recommendation be because she is the nominee. Guest he needs to do a mass hiring of young women of color that are either on summer break, at home for high school and maybe there are sorority and they can get connected that way on their campuses but there needs to be a very concerted effort to engage young diverse voters so that they actually feel seen. Stacy abrams talked about identity politics and being the flipside or i see it flipside as i dont see color but she puts it this way and says i see you. I see the full sum experience and who you are and i see that you are woman and i see that you are black and i see that matters but thats an important thing. I think with joe biden needs to do is see if he makes the constituencies he would like to engage and turn out hopefully in november he needs to make them feel seen and heard but yeah, tab the movement and engage with the campaign they need to speak on regular basis. I hope they are and i know some of this they are doing but they dont seen enough from the outside and that is the critique that i think a lot of people had in 16 and we would be like we are doing it and then they would be like well i did not see it so that is part of it to. Host the most traditional campaigns are used to doing Television Advertising and they dont recognize that oftentimes young people the voters that she wants are not on tv or watching tv. Guest what my favorite so far [inaudible conversations] host organizing all we need to show about what happens during the trump rally where they mobilized the worldwide to get free tickets to his rally and they expected his Campaign Manager was touting a Million People were coming because of the demand and less than 6000 showed up and then got trolled by the generation z but i point to that because one of the things you talk about is kids and what that means and when you say that biden may not be connecting we know he is not connecting and we get did a survey where 46 of young latinos expected to participate and even then they were soft and that is code red for me because unlike an africanamerican White Communities where the parents forced their kids to go vote it is the young latinos that force their parents to go vote so talk a little bit about the power of their voice and how do you communicate to them . Guest the kids is about the millennial activism and parkland march for our lives and also daca, kids who have been using social media to organize. [inaudible conversations] guest they understand how to use it as a tool and they know its not a beall, endall. I think theres a lot of critiques of activism which is why i wanted to like this chapter because ive long been a proponent of twitter to create a space to have a dialogue or what used to be better for this but you could have a backandforth about something that was uncomfortable to talk about in person. We seen this with metoo an progress matter. One of the things i think is important about the is to understand that the kids get intersection analogy. The understand identity matters and understand that you should respect peoples identity and they understand that people who have different backgrounds should be treated the same in a fundamental old way and in a different way that maybe our parents or even my generation. I think that they have grown up with income inequality and grown up with wars in iraq and afghanistan and grown up with systemic issues being right in their faces and then they have the ability to go on tiktok and learn about diplomacy because thats the content that they are watching but they learn about it all and i think the tiktok moment was important to highlight i think and im glad you brought it up because it is one of my favorite things that it is evident joe biden already has an army. And so all he needs to do is well, i guess, and list them is the word but engage them and where they are and i read a couple of things recently where they were debating whether or not they should have a presence on tiktok because it seemed odd that he is so much older but it doesnt have to be him. You could engage those influencers tos beak in the message and then they are speaking to their own people and it is a validation that joe biden is the best choice right now. I think a lot of people there has been a debate on twitter this week host but we have to highlight that this generation seems to be have a different savvy and echoed from aoc and you just said it again and this understanding that we have to have a more pragmatic look of our candidates and this generation is interested saying i do need to be in love but i need to know hes the right choice right now and i dont think that has been communicated enough to them. I think everybody expects the barack obama moment, at least operatives do and independence do but these kids have started in iraq and have had the worst recession in recent memory and they live in Food Insecurity and they have a different savvy and less coddled generation and i know people dont give them that credit but the hardships they face among black and brown communities disproportionately, whether black lives matter or talking about family separation and the anxiety of daca and speak to how, i do believe and thats what your book is getting to with the that they have a different level of maturity when they do expect authenticity. Guest i dont they want to hear platitudes for the understand that platitudes dont lead to action. Platitudes are you telling me what i want to hear but i want you to go do the thing that will help me and that will help my family have more security and safety and i think that fundamentally this generation, because some of the crises that we are facing, when i wrote this book it was all before covid. I had no idea there would be a pandemic however, i would say host i wish you had told me. [laughter] you were the only one. Guest but i was preparing for disaster. Fundamentally as soon as trump was elected in part i during the campaign on the impulse of it might be the end of the world so let me go do my part. Also believing that hillary because i do believe she could be a good president but also i was afraid of donald trump and so when he won i was like preparing for the end of the world literally and that was way before the thought. Host i think your flagging was people of color and people of color pendants and analysts were saying about donald trump and there was a, you know, it was a general folks that making decisions on the stories we cover that anxiety was illfounded but the moment you went down the elevator he told us who he was and so i oftentimes am surprised if people been surprised at how terrible he is. Hes always told us so i guess that goes back to the sensibility of these young, black and brown activists that are, to your point, looking for authenticity and trying to get people to leave them where they are and meet their needs so how does that change in a pandemic where we see people marching for george floyd and expecting change while the rest of the world is upturned. I say this because unlike, you know, counter to most beliefs we did a poll and 75 of latinos are in lockstep with black lives matter and when we look at Younger Voters that we talk to, thats even a bigger. What significance do you see if you are reading the tea leaves . Guest i think the opportunity is thats a Winning Coalition of voters and not just because they can potentially win elections but they can receive legislators and reshape congress and reshape the entire country because when you have voting power and the numbers and you can build a coalition that can then elect the people that can help your communities and fundamentally that is why Voter Suppression is a strategy and why they try to profess the votes of black and brown people. The understand of the vote and we think about that all the time because i family that marched in selma and i do think about the fact that they had to risk their lives for my ability to go vote but think about how powerful that vote must be. The people would threaten the lives or potentially murder others on the Edmund Pettis bridge is because they want to participate in the democracy. It must be something worth fighting for. Host this brings me to one of the most powerful quotes in my book and it says basically you state when you are accustomed to privileging quality feels like oppression is someone and how does that how did the president use that and how do we turn back . Guest i turned this my cohost is a white woman and im a black woman and we are both feminist. We have great conversations about how its raised and you have a body and you have white kids and youre raised differently. People treat you differently and you dont realize it sometimes. Its just how it is. There are a lot of host they dont walk in and feel like they are clutching your purses or in Department Stores because they not sure if you can afford something. Those micro aggressions that we are aware of. Guest exactly and they add up. I dont really call it a micro because at the end of the day feels not micro. Host your rights. They are minor issues but because that person who follows in the store forgets about you but you get in the car and you are still fuming about it. Guest yes, i relate and understand. So, i think that the black woman and white woman is essentially the fact that white children are raised, whether explicitly or implicitly because of the culture they consume and because what is on tv and what is on magazines and in positions of power that white people are better and that is what they are talk and they dont see a black president ial barack obama and and they dont see the ceos be anything other than white men and in various new cases. And i think when you are accustomed to seeing yourself reflected back in the best party way and the positions of power and authority and privilege and the image of other types of people you see are always negative in the stereotypes or racist and that has an effect, not everybody realizes that they have these biases but i always say that everybody has instinctive biases because we grow up in this country and we are consuming all that pop culture and consuming all that messaging and then we treat people differently, better or worse. I remember when i was a little kid in school i was the only black child until ninth grade and so that has an impact on one, my ability to recognize i was being treated tivoli because i was the only one different so it was eyeopening and i think it was third grade when i was like okay, when i am excited to know the answer and i get really aggressive about it i get reprimanded or told wait your turn, literally but i was told wait your turn but when the white boys usually would do it they would get right and i noticed that. And then you have, you know, multiply that experience in perpetuity and that is the expanse of a person not white. That has an effect on how you behave as a result and an effect on how you treat people around you and i think, you know, the debate we are having currently about people not wearing a mask is also a manifestation of this privilege and of not having to be bothered to protect other people because youve heard on the news that may be black and brown communities are being disproportionally impacted and so thats not me and thats not my community. Host and im not the social worker and i have the privilege of staying at home and going to the lake and to the beach, if i wish. Im in total agreement. Its interesting that we participated in the 21st Century Task Force with president obama trying to change the culture of police because that seemed to be the most systemic way to enact change at the time. One of the things that was highlighted that speaks to your point of how people of color are pretrade in the media makes an impact on policing because it turns out the majority of White Police Officers were coming from very rural small towns and then placed in the middle of urban centers and so having conversations and recognizing that the only time they ever had or sought interaction with the black person or latino in the cases of black person in the images of law and order and this is true, law and order helped informed that they were drug addicts or that they carried guns or incredibly violent and in the case of latinos were drastic workers and undocumented breaking the law. If you can imagine someone from those formative years being in a rural area meeting a person of color in the place where they are trying to deescalate but theyve already been conditioned to believe that person will hurt them no matter what, you can imagine the reactions. Guest you see that. In some of these videos unfortunately you see that moment where the reaction is to harm and defense because they are quote, unquote, their lives but weve also seen videos where the police and how they treat white people that are vested. Host start differently because they have different images of them. I want to talk about and i think something you point out that was also very important because the tendency of having aggression and the racist rhetoric is always speak in misogynistic language coming from the right and has always like we dont do this but you talk specifically about a whole chapter about [inaudible] and you run in with them during the 2016 president ial election rightdoublequote, to this very day if i criticize bernie online or on television might mention in the social media profile are all barred by angry supporters harassing me in attempt to stifle my dissent. Why did you feel that was important to highlight this particular behavior coming from the left . Guest i think we are better than this. We are the party that in principle cares about equality and justice in treating people fairly. I dont understand how you can see the efficacy of medicare for all because you care so much about health and security and safety of others in your fellow americans and medicare for all and then people that dont support Bernie Sanders and the tweets i got was you just want people to die and no literally i do not. I literally want medicare for all. Host people literally said that to you . Guest yes, and in addition, when you are not lock step with what they want then it was a silencing tactic. I think either they were bombarding their social media profiles or calling me names and i knew a lot of it because i got so much of it and after a while you would muted and it doesnt really because i cant let it get inside and i cant internalize the feedback of people i dont know but i also, you know, its toxic. I called out because it exists and it is a thing that is happening and we need to deal with it. One of the ways in which we can deal with it is to be honest about the fact that it was happening and it was happening and that there was certain overlap between some of the impulses and misogyny and racism that women of color were publicly attacked or trolled if you were will. I dont like the word troll because it dehumanizes the person doing harm and i call them a whole but we cant do that. [laughter] i dont like trolls because i feel like trolls make it sound like its not a person but it is a person making a decision to send a harmful hateful comment to another person put on our side i feel like we dont have a tolerance for that but Bernie Sanders himself to speak to how it was incredibly inappropriate in the Progressive Side of the political spectrum to tolerate misogyny and racism and even among some of his staff frankly. I think, you know, the reckoning around that we still have work to do but i do think that it is not all the supporters and never is almost all of anything but it is only a small group of what is a large and Diverse Group of bernies coalition, right . So one of the other points that i make in the book that is important to note there are young latinos and black people that support Bernie Sanders but their voices are being obscured because these other voices with the ugly messaging are loud and angry and so they are harming their larger goal in movement by not fully confronting those in their own movement that are perpetuating some of the same behaviors we see from the Trump Supporters. Host i guess, how does that piece of it, how does that translate into the coalition that you and i discussed and do you see a group of bernie brothers that they my way or the highway or leads into what we are constantly on the Progressive Side trying to combat trying to have an elevated discussion so that we can provide solutions to these communities . What does that look like for that coalition that is needed to win in november. Guest i look at it like this, theres a small group of people on the Progressive Left that i feel like either they will see the light and be like i was a real jerk about it but we all agree we do want some sort of universal healthcare, medicare for all would be ideal but someone will have to negotiate with the republicans for that. You may not get everything we want but the person we want to negotiate with doesnt mean there a sellout or more negative for us than the republicans. Again, we have to be relative about it in fair about it. I think the coalition were trying to build includes white progressives but fundamentally the core of it is people of color and so, you know, for the folks that are like well, the Trump Supporters they were just, they had economic anxiety and were not racist. That Bernie Sanders said something to that effect and i am tired of hearing that because donald trump children and he calls mexicans racist and asked the first black president for his certificate and those are some examples that i dont have to wonder if he is racist. Host is not the rhetoric but its his policies. Guest is more the policy that guest he is actually harming those committees hes talking about to your point. Host you mentioned it again that you need a coalition to win and oftentimes in the book you highlight these importance of black and brown voters so talk a little bit about or unpacked that because most people dont realize that together because theres so much alignment in the issues whether were talking about policing or black lives matter or talking about healthcare specifically around or with young black and brown voters what is that potential and talk about texas and california . Guest texas and california are the two states in the country where latin or voters are already the majority of the electorate. You see just that alone white voters in a minority and i dont like to say majority and minority but host its a terrible. [laughter] guest but in the book i think i say just say white voters will be minority and its okay and it wont hurt. We try to avoid saying it like it will hurt them but no, its okay. I understand you were raised in a country where youre calling other people minorities but now you will be a minority. Internalize that a little bit because that doesnt mean that you will be treated like white people have treated minorities but it just means that the ability to access power is different. The coalition we can build between black and brown communities can be around issues like Racial Justice and healthcare, income inequality and also the idea that there are specific needs that Community Needs so black and brown communities made big investment in education and reinvestment from the Police Department to services and actual communities and these are practical things. Host and in the same within the latino immunity and oftentimes we talk about this idea of Climate Change we get left out but our communities are disproportionately impacted by climate injustice and they are compounded and i think what your book has tried to raise the flag is that the future is born in the future is here and how are we preparing america for that diversity is our richness if we know how to provide the resources to lift all votes and speak to that. Guest part of what i think we have to snap out of it is we are so used to discussing whiteness and its everything nothing. I remember as a little girl that i was the only black child and i would look at the magazines in the stores and will be all white faces and then there would be oprah and that was it. If you like representation is a piece of this also. And people want to see themselves reflected back and the fact that there are no latin x tv shows right now and a lot of shows get pegged as a black show or a latin x show because of the majority makeup and i just did that too but i think that is the point we are lacking in representation and not that showed that has latin x actors but literally your point is so valid is that the reason we could say that as donald trump coming to power was because the country has demographically changing so quickly and all of a sudden neighbors looked upset i dont reckon is my neighbor and i dont feel secure and instead of having a media has been talking about the stories and bringing the country long to the reality that for the first time there will be 12 million more voters than baby boomers who are two thirds young people of col color. Its all of a sudden we woke up in 2020 like oh my gosh, we are brown and black. It is not the case. That is the whole point of your book. Guest exactly, exactly. [laughter] host yes, but this is where because people say that is theoretical but in the book you mentioned the hypocrisy of how black women running for office are treated verse how whites are running and mayor Pete Buttigieg was able to step up for his campaign but other stops, what other steps can democrats take . Guest one of the things we really need to do as a party and i am so glad to see for Quinton James and jessica byrd and also even in terms of the funding and financing of campaigns and supporting campaigns but there needs to be more infrastructure in place that not only claims candidates but also claims operatives and if you dont have diversity in terms of operatives and that Training Ground for people who eventually could run for office that will never have representation that you need reflect the makeup of the electorate. I think fundamentally for me what is missing on our side is the infrastructure to build that political power through staffing campaigns, staffing legislative offices and also having people run for office. Some of the organizations that do this work are new and they just started. We are just in the beginning of it but i think that is where a lot of the investment needs to happen and in terms of when you are already running in the case of Kamala Harris we need to do what the Progressive Movement is be honest about the ways in which black women are hacked and women generally, woman candidates, their mistakes are weighed heavily and attacked and more heavily than the men. [inaudible conversations] host katie hill is a perfect example. Her exhusband was about to leak new photos of her and she felt her career had ended where as that was not the case even when Anthony Weiner did the same thing for he could say he could have another go at it. Guest there were a few members of congress who are they even still there or they went longer than they could because they were meant and i think that first of all, it is so rare for a woman politician and elected office to have a scandal that even have any of the characteristics in terms of what katie hill dealt with and in terms of the misogyny and revenge nature of that particular host it seemed like small potatoes. Guest right. Host we actually have receipts for the other guy. Guest what is upsetting is not honest about [inaudible]. For example, Pete Buttigieg is basically my age and around the same age and this is why i had such a visceral response. I know as woman of color i cannot show up at a event tell townhall run for president until everyone would get to the details, policies later. They would stop the conversation. They would not continue talking to me because i would not be seen as a serious candidate. Host and the reason he was on that stage is because donors believed he could do it but as a woman of color even getting host they would not finance my campaign. Guest i would not get any money is what i am saying. We think that is the point. Kamala harris had to obviously and her president ial campaign because of low fundraising and that is too often what has happened with candidates of color and women who for some reason they dont trust them with their money without them having proved they could do the thing. Men dont have to prove host and even then there is a big question. I love in the Progressive Movement you talk about the Donor Community and i would love you to dig into that but ive always been struck by individuals to say i really believe in funding the Latin X Community and believe in funding the African Community and they give the money to someone who give it to someone who could not bring us into the fold. To me it is mind blowing. You are in politics where the campaigns often do not affect the people theyre trying to to woo. It is the same thing when it comes to those who invest. Guest exactly, they dont give money to people who have a traditional been given money or being invested in. That makes the cycle and it goes around and around and people are being in positions of power and the same people are being hired to put elected officials into office and then it keeps going and the chief of staff becomes a candidate and then we do it again. [inaudible conversations] could be not do that . To the point that a lot of people say identity politics you just want to elect black people because they are black. No, but it is helpful to have someone who was black in a position of power because that person has lived in a black body their whole life and they will bring that perspective to policy so that is why it is so important. Its not because i want to see a picture with diversity. Thats nice but it is about the perspective. Host perspective and when people say my vote doesnt matter and appoint to the fact that for the very first time during the 2010 election generation x, y and z voted in the most diverse government in house that we had ever seen and if you ask them why does diversity matter now theres 400 pieces of legislation that is a blueprint of rising the tide that would not have been the case had we not had this diverse body that was ushered in by a Diverse Group of americans. One of the things that as we come to close i want to ask you is young people, young women listening to this conversation they might be saying oh my goodness, i thought a political career was for me but maybe i dont belong in that space because it is either so hard or there are so many barriers. What advice do you give them . I am of the mind that we need to flood the zone with young leadership because to your point earlier, they dont need the Culture Shift that being gay is okay and having black lives matter should be a right and that the claimant is on fire. They have grown up in a world where you dont have to convince them that to be true but looking to our conversation they may have trepidation of getting input what is your advice . Guest i would say that the system is not fair all the time but we all know that. But i also say that you your right to vote is powerful. If it werent they will not trying so hard to take it away. You have to participate in the process in order to get to the change you want. Dont fall back on the citizens him of it is too hard and it wont matter and it wont even count. If we all collectively go and participate or run ourselves because you dont have to run host what is your advice for a young person running . Aoc i think she broke the mold because she went immediately for office and people say how did she do this and i said young people happen to have aged into her demographic and we see young people aging in all the time now because generation the is the largest generation. But they dont have happened to congress so what [inaudible conversations] guest i love it. Run for the school board or city council. Run for your community board. New york city has Community Boards and the different bureaus all around new york city. You can run for congress and run for state legislator in most states are not fulltime positions. You can get be a state legislator and work your regular job at 30. State legislators in new york that are my age or 28 when they were elected. Its exciting. The other thing i would remind people is that if you are looking at running for office of any kind and you are worried that you dont have the qualifications i want you to remember that [inaudible] is in congress and that there are a lot of host looked them up if you do not know who they are. Guest but there are men in congress who never questioned whether or not they were right for the job or have the right experience. Clearly, they dont. And they are in office. Multiple terms. It is important to say look, if you think there is a problem in your community that needs solving figure out what role it is and whether or not you can run for it and go solve it. The majority of women run for office to solve a specific problem. Something like potholes. We women are solution oriented and we are not willing to compromise once in office. Having more of us in that would make for better government. If you are a young woman out there, dont just what you dont have to be aoc on the first try. Try to be a leader within your community to improve the problems around you. Try that first. Additionally you can virtually volunteer or work on the biden campaign. I would recommend doing that. President ial campaigns of the best experience for every job. Host i believe that to be true. Absolutely. In your book you talk about white politics and the importance of focusing on people of color to make the change the democratic agenda. What is your advice for white allies . How can they present their best self and how can they ensure there is cultural change . Guest part of the problem is the lack of acknowledgment that White Privilege is exists first but also that they benefit from it. Oftentimes the comeback when youre talking about that im not privileged and im not rich and i dont have that. And then i always use a different example, did you ever think about what you were married before you went to a job because we might be shot in that outfit. Someone would have mistaken you for a burglar and killed you and then the second part i always have to add on and then no one would get in trouble for it. Literally you could be killed and then also the system says it didnt matter. No one is even going to be held accountable because theres two parts to the injustice there. If you have never had that thought thats privilege. It is easy to acknowledge that that is a privilege you enjoy and doesnt make you a bad person but you also have to be an accomplice in trying to dismantle the systems that are making it possible for black people to repeatedly be killed and then also secondarily no one gets in trouble for that. Undervaluing black lives is bo both, recognizing the ways in which you do not have to deal with those same harms potentially because you benefit and you have the benefit of white skin but also raising kids that have that antiracist mindset to quote the number one best seller of how be an antiracist. And who do treat people, i think there is something to be said for the generation of people that were like i dont see color. Dont raise your color like that. Razor color to see and validate and acknowledge your friends and learn to embrace it because i think that is what makes america cool honestly. I think the younger generation, i think, their creativity and their ability and when i go on tiktok there are dance videos and tutorials about white the premises. They are different breeds of this generation and they host i thank you can speak to that and to your point, they care about it and when you say diversity in america is cool the only other person that i know or other entity that understands that is russia and that is a whole different conversation but the reason they are trying to create this animus among the tribes we dont really, thats because they believe that that is our greatest strength and so it is the diversity that i believe dp prepares us for our future but we do have to be vocal and speak to those conversations and his book does that. It sheds light on the fundamental pieces that even the mechanics of things we take for granted because its the system that is versus what it should be especially when we want to change the white house and congress and the state legislators there is a vast group of people we are not talking to because we dont have the right people helping usher them into making the right decisions in candidates years. With that i know we are facing tremendous chaos and i keep saying we have a pandemic on the eve of the economic depression and we also have the 1960 level riots in the streets and all of it together, my mom always said god does not give you what you cannot withstand so clearly our generation could withstand this but what is your hope at the end of the day because theres so much anxiety and what is the purpose and what gives you hope . Guest i thought a lot during the pandemic that this one big timeout that we are on is almost a universe forcing us to reflect upon our mistakes. Namely, voting donald trump into the white house and despite the evidence of racism and misogyny and just unfit. For me i wasnt afraid of the racism and i was upset by the racism but afraid of the deportations and the potential for deportation forces and i remember that was a Big Conversation among staffers on the campaign and their fear of that. Understanding that communities that will be directly impacted, they were in a state of fear consistently and so i think in this moment i think the pandemic it allows us time to reflect. Some people dont have time because they have kids and they have to be teachers and fulltime employees and its a caveat but i do think a lot of us are thinking about our mortality and begin about the ways in which we care about other people around us and we are having a debate about Wearing Masks from the daughter of a scientist and i am screaming into the void all the time. Host they dont understand that and are scratching their heads. As we conclude the conversation i want to give you the last word about what you think is the biggest opportunity if someone picks up white politics. Guest i think the biggest opportunity is understanding your part within a larger framework if you exist in a time where america will be the minority white like 2045. That has never happened and that is in your moment where you are living through literal history and at but i also think everyone has a part to play and you are a voter and the Obama Campaign in 2007 before i joined in 2008 is when i was registering voters in new jersey before i moved to virginia to work for the campaign and the girl in charge would not even be 18 by the election date and so i was like why are you here and she said i have to live in the country and i was like [inaudible conversations] and then she says well im one votes but a fight register 100 people today that is 100 votes. I was like snap. So i feel like the mentally understanding that everyone participates is the cool thing about this country. You can all participate. Paint about joe biden. Paint about the issues we care about. If you sing or write a song, participate and do that. Host that is right. Sometimes people ask me like what is your talent and i could be a talent for the movement because we need everyones talent for the dark forest and that is what i want to thank you for your time to thank you for writing the the end of white politics. Folks, please pick it up and i think we will all see ourselves in the story but also as a roadmap to the solution. Thank you everyone for joining us today. Im maria kumar, register to vote, participate and leave it all on the field this november. Stay safe and wear a mask, be healthy. Guest thank you. Weeknights this month we are featuring book tv programs as a preview of what is available every weekend on cspan2. Friday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern book tv looks at several programs with bestselling author malcolm gladwell. Enjoy book tv on cspan2. Book tv on cspan2 has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. Coming up saturday at 5 30 p. M. Eastern authors elizabeth hint hinton, robin kelly and cornell west talk about the black lives matter movement. On sunday and 9 00 p. M. Eastern on after words university of california berkeley law professor and former Deputy Assistant attorney general in the george w. Bush administration, with his book, defender in chief. They look at president ial powers in the u. S. Constitution. He is interviewed by mark roselle, author and George Mason University founding dean of the school of policy and government. Watch book tv this weekend on cspan2. Cspans washington journal. Every day we take your calls live on the air on the news of the day and we discussed policy issues that impact you. Coming up friday morning. A discussion about women in campaign 2020 at the independent womens forum senior policy analyst. And the evolution of women in electoral politics with university of virginia politic professor jennifer lawless. Watch cspans washington journal live at 7 00 a. M. Eastern friday morning and be sure to join the discussion