for the reunfix indication. a book you must read. i couldn't put it down. jacob sharessing this disbelief and outrage and sense of duty on every pager. go through this permanent honor explore the experiences of several families juxtaposed to the administration residents antics, denial brutal behavior that still managed to shock us. this isn't suppose to happen in america. jacob's coverage clearly changed policy and help to reunite countless families. katy tur hold don the fortunate msnpc at 2:00 p.m. dailey. his drink book, unbelievable, i my front row seat to craziest american campaign in history, documenting already tour of duty on the campaign trail and what happened to her is a she fact, checked and consistently reported the candidates' lies. katy and jacob will chat but separation and i urge you to by a copy now. we have many signed copies of the book and you can find our link at writers block presents.com. i'm delighted to woman katy tur and jacob soboroff and i only wish this were in person. >> i wish, too. >> me, too. thank you for everything. hi, katy. >> high, jacob. feel also the moderator here i get to introduce you. jason soboroff, my drew g friend since growing up in los angeles, my partner on the swamp. a man who does not hoe how to to eat avocado toast appropriately. joke. your book is really impressive and i say that as member who used to compete withyou to be a reporter when we were 18 years old. you wrote one hell of a book, and it is really difficult to put down and also is really difficult to read at times. almost wish i was reading it have not had a child. might have meet it easier at times because any parent who reads this will feel it acutely. and i'm getting teared up even thinking about the passages. i want to start with where we are today because i feel like that's going to give us cop text for the rest of the book. where do we stand with separated children? how many kids are still not reunite i with their parent inside. >> i'll answer that question in a second, indicateitch just want to say thank you to andrea and writers blocks. i. going to your event with pam morrison when your book cam out, and i thought i have no idea how katy tur wrote a book. i don't know how to write a book. i don't know if i ever wrote a book, what would the book be about, and the first thing -- i should just say to all 470 people here which is remarkable and kudos to writers block to get everybody to come out digitally like this issue didn't know how to write a book so i called you and i -- by the way to everybody watching this is me and katy do this all the time just not with 470 people watching. we're best of friends, grew up together here in l.a. we competed against each other to become a reporter and katy won. i was doing resident carped for the amc channel and doing on youtube and doing things for l.a. observe.com, shoutout to kevin roderick, but you have been a mentor to me and do you remember what you said to me when i asked about writing the book. >> just write. >> you told me i can -- what is called. >> scrivener. >> scrivener. >> it came in useful. i will get into the substance substance of that but i roast most of the book any laundry room because i couldn't get the wi-fi to work so at the last second i ran into the kitchen. so welcome to my kitchen. the answer to your question is we don't know. what we know is that 5,400 approximately children were taken systematically by the trump administration in what can only be described as an unprecedented abuse of the human rights of children and that's not me saying that. that's the american academy of pediatrics physicians for human rights tall it torture and says it pleaded the clinical definition of torture and did it on purpose. around zero tolerance and 2800 kids were taken. later found out in an investigation done by the inspector general of health and human services that there were thousands more who were accounted for since the policy ended, another thousand children according to the aclu have been taken from their parents and the truth is that while most of the children in that initial batch of 2800 have been either reunited with parent order placed with a sponsor in the out because remember, 400 plus parents were depored without their children before they had the able to reunite we don't know -- they can't -- the aclu cannot even find all of the parents of the children who were taken and tried to link them up, and to the answer is, we don't know how many parents and children are ultimately still left to be reunited and because of shoddy record keeping we may never know and i write about that in the book. >> you also choose to tell the story about two men, father and son, juan and jose, not the real named but the names they give you to protect their identity and how they were separated at the borderment give me their story and where they are today. >> the first thing i want to say is they're extraordinary people, just like every single one of the 5400 families that went through this together and that is every one of them has their own stepand every one of them win to a very similar experience but each and every one of them are extreme hi different people and jose and juan, the names they chose do protect themselves and fair almost in guatemala, came from place -- a critical corer to for narcotrafficking, all of the cocaine and other drugs coming to the united states pass through this region of guatemala, and give one way to know that it by the way -- i write about the in back -- we were once together and he said to me if you want to know what's going on in ben and wrote nark narcos and you see thousands or -- hundred ted very least of air strips built in the middle of the rain forest used as trafficking areas for cartels to bring drugs into the out and into the body of american consumers. so, long story short but juan and jose, this is a father and son just like me and my son. when i saw the picture of jose, he look just like me when i was a 12-year-old hanging out in his dad's store, i would hang out in my dad's office, hair was slicked back, weaker cool sun glasses and an oversight to shirt and his father had come to the united states as a economic migrant to come and make money for his family i and return each time. ultimately they get tangled up with narcos in their community that after juan sold a vehicle to someone, that vehicle was -- ended up in the hand of the nark code wanted juan to sign over the paperwork for the car. wasn't able to do it because he no longer had the car and and the threatened his life and his son's life. so they came to the out where they thought representedcast security and their family could join thin and when the came into the united states, attempting to seek acai lime i that are were picked up and separated and put into different cells and didn't see each other again for nearly five months. >> they're together again now? >> they're back together again now. still have the story now, they're back together again. thank god. and they're together in walk area where jose is going to school and doing vocational classes and working learning to become an electrician and father juan is working in construction and i really do -- have come to love. the as friend. i've seen -- when i was shooting american swamp i would see them and have dinner with them in the d.c. area and the reason they wanted to participate in the book is because -- the same reason i did. they went through the bus had so many questions what happened and now and. the happen again and that's the same reason i decide to write the book. >> i have had conversations with people who work at the dhs and bored easterly patrol in this administration and the last administration, and they're empathy for those crossing the border i limited. it's not necessarily just the trump administration. there's a feeling among those who work at the border or work around the border that a lot of the migrants that come over and declare asylum aren't telling the truth. in your experience, from the migrants you have spoken, to tell us what you can say about that. >> it's not true. the facts don't support that allegation. what they're talking about is something specifically called fraudulent family units, basically people come, stake faking their a family, off shaped jose was by son but wasn't my son, it happens in a tiny fraction of the cases. they don't track and it's not a co co incidence oomph animal saying it doesn't happen and certainly people take advantage of the asylum laws and come with children or figure out another way to get into the country but you don't take one of the most dangerous journeys in the world through some of omost dangerous places in world in order to come here and flip a coin and fake the fact you are coming for a better life. all you have to do is go talk to people along the border and it's instantly recognizable the authenticity and the voracity of the stories and the idea that it's not true, the idea that people are faking it, it's just another talking point one of many talking points easily disprovable, like people coming across the border in large measure ms13. you heard from the president before i heard of it and you covered him on the campaign and a lot of this stuff just isn't true. >> do you have a copy of the book in front of you. >> i do. hold on. >> this is the book no are for earn who has not seen the cover. >> it there is. >> i want you do a reading. think it's interesting when i hear the words out of the writers mouth and this is your experience. if you could go to page 207. i want you do read page 207, 208, 209 start agent we were warned not to spike with the children and going until, and scott lloyd wanted was created. >> this is just to give some context. this is the chapter where i first went into a miss call casa padre, a former walmart, 250,000 square foot former woman. walmart good converted nominal live into a shelter for migrant children. what happened was -- i don't if you remember -- jeff merkley the senator hat attempted to get into the facility, live streamed on facebook and was turned away. around the time that separations were coming into the national consciousness and truth of the matter i should say i didn't -- i didn't really see the separations coming. i had spent time covering the border but like is the wall needed or not. what this reality of deportation. and so when dish was working on a dateline hour long documentary and i was invited into the shelter to door it by a woman named katy waldman now named katy miller, married stephen miller but the main spokesperson for the department. >> i have a question on her later. homeland security and she said to me, they were going to invite me into the place because they wanted journalists to chargize was was going on inside before democratics on a congressional delegation were able to go. in waldman ranked for know fly down to brownsville and to get into the shelter, and so i did. when i got there i had no idea what to expect. so once he was inside this is the part you asked me to read. we were in a -- basically a spa, you back in and it's like tile floor and somebody behind the desk, it's. so here we go we were warned not to speak with any of the children. with that the door opened into the cavernous facility. all i could see were young boys everywhere i looked. jotted down what i expo what i was thinking in spiral note book while hi head was on a with. didn't look down at the note book as i wrote and my hand writing suffered for it. true. if the boys weren't sitting in chairs along walls waiting noth a room or sitting at cafeteria style table, they were in line to eat. in their hands were trays holding oreo cookies, apple sauce, jello, chicken, and mashed potatoes. i was walking side by side with alexia rodriguez, lawyer for the facility. when i expressed amazement at what waft is wag see without skipping a beat she told me and another reporter near her, the smile at the kids because, quote they feel like animals in a cage being looked at. i think she realized how truthful she had just been because she immediately said she didn't want that comment to be on the record which of course is not how that works. in fairness to rodriguez, cames was the wrong word there were none here which i found important to note of senator merkley used the phrase but a border patrol facility which led to confusion online. rodriguez was bright, though. the kids were looking at us with a deer in the the headlights gate. a group of ten reporters with note pads chronicling in the detail as we were herded like animals through the facility. as we continued walking she explained that all of the approximately 1500 kids would neat a two-hour window rotating. disobeying orders i couldn't help saying hello, asking the churn how they were doing with my limited spanish. as we were shepherded to an area where boys lined up to take a shower and the rooms where the slept i notice heed the first of many quotes on the wall there observe good faith and justice towards all nations. with craned heads we look inside one of the 313 bedrooms. five twin beds were arranged like puzzle pieces that fit into the small room. we are were told five beds her room was unusual. garcia,. the executive program director, told me these extra cots were coat what the facility revved may around the time zero toll rasp was announce bid attorney general sessions if looked over at ryan, the former trump campaign aide and now senior director of communications media realizations for the administration for children and families, and asked him if he had he ever been here before he hadn't, he admitted. pretty nice, he quipped. not what i was thinking. as we continued walking we passed by the cav kavanaugh fear ya. i noticed there would a mural of president trump the testified the length of the entire wall. incredulous i read the quotes they accompanied the mural. sometimes losing a battle you fine a new way to win the war. i walked away. wound through narrow hall weapons, along one wall i saw a phone which signage made clear was for the young boys who came theirive they wanted to leave a compliant outside of the building. next to the phone was a piece of paper with names of local service organizations children could call for help. the child advocacy children, child abuse center advocacy organization, the valerie baptist medical center, and the legal services agency for children and adults in immigration detention. almost as fast as could i register what kind of here rosier might come pale child to pick up the child call a service, we came spoon a roo, a bayerner -- barber shop. i tried to stay focused. couldn't shake the phone booth and went back to see it, a second time. at one point i asked a staffer, how separated families would ultimately reunite. after families are apprehended testify border and children taken from apart its was told the department of homeland security sends intake e-mails noting the child we transferred he officer of refugee reset littlement was receiving a child complete thursday intake process in 24 hours after first providing a shower and food. let me keep going just to the next paragraph because it's important. it was during the intake process i learn that case managers would generally find out out separations and then notify other relevant agencies they were parents for a separated child this also how the list that jim de la cruz was keeping and scott loyd wanted gone was created. >> to that's important. that last paragraph. and first off just that description, and only got worse from the other facilities that were toured and as we learn that it wasn't older kids that were being separate but what they called the euphemism tender age, babies. there was dining room remember reading a headline when i was an maternity leave and i burt out crying, and it's been a year of a they're who was -- had his four-month-old ripped from his hands and that he would they would be erue fighted on the plane if the got tone plane and he got on the many and never brought his baby. tell me why this paragraph, which ends with scott lloyd wanted gone, the list that scott lloyd wanted go, who is scott lloyd and what list did he want gone? >> scoot lloyd was the director of the office of refugee resettlement, thing a did i mentioned the administration of children and families, foes health and human services, administration for children and families, office of refugee resettlement, and the office of refugee resettlement is the custodian of all the unaccompanied migrant children in the custody of the federal government. so he was the caretaker, the legal guardian of the 10,000 plus kids, many of which came on their own, but hundreds, thousands of which were separated from their family. he was their guardian. and what i just read to you happened on june 13th, 2018. i was on the air with you the next day issue remember, and in april, april 20th if i'm not mistaken an article came out in "new york times" by kaitlin dickerson, an extraordinary reporter and bombshell expo say that said 700 children -- we tone know number -- hundred children had been taken from their parents by thank you trump administration. -- by the trump administration and the article wasabissed on a list that leaked from the office of refugee revoltment, an informal list track the situation from children' parents because we were told wasn't happening and top officials, career officials not scott lid he was a trump appointed official, kept asking questions. we're seeing numbers tick up, wearing reports from case managers like the ones i described, these kids are earning up unaccompanied, basically rendered unaccompanied and when this happened, scott lloyd was beside himself. he was angry and embarrassed the list leaked to media and his firth thought was to get rid of the list, not to how to protect the children he was warned he muss do. is instinct was to get rid of the list so in a meeting -- the list was kept by the gentleman, jim de la cruz and other career officials. in this meeting at orr, scott -- jim -- scott lloyd queried it employees why we're keeping a list, what can we do with the list, was angrily the list leaked, and essentially the direction meats it way down to you're moneyows that scott lloyd -- their interpretation of the events -- warranted the list gone. and two career staffers, row fused to destroy the list and had they followed through, with that initial desire that scott lloyd had, the critical linkage the only link between parents and children would have been gone, this informal lest kept only because people were opposed to at the policy inside the department and those 700 children we don't know if they ever would have been reunited. >> you're saying that list was the only document that had the information that linked the child to their parents. >> it's almost unbelievable to think about and there's one thing i said at the time during the reporting, i'm sure i said this to you on the air, that i said over and over again there was no plan to reunite children once they were taken from each other, and in some measure i was wrong. and the way i was wrong is that it there were plans to reunite the children, time and again people inside i.c.e., woman named claire who spendings on the record said the warned superiors they would not be able to link parents and children if they've followed how to by family separations. commander white warned, the head of cdp and he head of dhs when kristin nelson was fired by president trump, they were not going to be able to do this if they apologiesed they could fix the system and make sure to take care or the children. but they didn't do it. she signed the policy intoistens and didn't wait -- didn't twice have a way to put the children back together. i it wasn't that there wasn't one. it's that they didn't want it for 2001 be put some place. >> the atlantic wrote a piece a couple years ago and the headline of the piece -- >> the cruelty is the point. >> invoked by mary trump in her book the cruelty is the point. do you think cruelty was the point here in this policy. >> i don't think. i know. and john kelly said it on cnn. a policy to deter people from combing to the united states. deterrence is scaring people from coming to the united states. katy waldman, now katy miller, said the same thing. they hope that the family separation policy would be so hard for people to see, members of congress, for people to -- a member of congress to see they would have to change the laws to stop two things, one, what i called the trafficking victims protection reauthorization ability, and the ability to immediately deport -- sorry -- the able to hold families indefinitely together in family detention, that's called those quote uncope loophold they aloud migrant families to come interest the country and be lee leased into the interior was described as catch and release. they all along wanted to end catch and release. stephen miller said it on the campaign, he said it in 2016 in a ballroom in colorado. >> tell me but your first experience encountering stephen miller. what i like about the book there were moments that reminded me of 2016 in a way -- you saw it from different perspective than it did. was in the middle of it every single day and your parachute inside. so while stephen miller has the character i new well he was somebody that was completely foreign to you so when you encountered him i believe in colorado -- >> wrote the book who the fuck is this dude? when i saw him talking and screaming about undocumented immigrants, in the ballroom in colorado, and again, i was wrong. and -- this book i'm not afraid to say i was wrong at multiple occasions ways on the rachel mad yo somehow that entitle and if thought to miss these guys have no chance. lock houston this guy is talk both out human beings so disold that ted cruz clobbered emthem at that colorado event and won all the debt good at at that event -- delegated and i just heard stephen miller screaming about the tragic killing of kate steinle who was killed by an um documented man in san francisco. the used her thrive push for restrictive immigration policy, and when i heard stephen miller say that and then later heard at the convention in cleveland where donald trump was streaming about undocumented immigration and ending catch and release, i said what is this? i don't know what they're talking about, how to execute this; they were warning all along that they were going to do something like this, and that it was imminent, and i guess i just didn't see it coming. milled it then and in the runup to sprayings -- operations as a recorder and i should feel deeply guilty about that because it was something that many other reporters -- they all saw it and i didn't see it, and it was sort of right there in front of my face and your face and all of our faces all along. >> you're muted. how do we unmute katy. go to bottom left and push writ says mute on the microphone. >> andrea had that muted. thank you. little i tried to mute myself to cough and i locked myself out. there's another -- >> let me ask you a question, indicatey. did you have any idea that types of policy -- you were with donald trump verdictly every day you probably knew stephen miller on a personal level. only saw him face to face one time. was this michigan you expected, something as grotesque as a policy to torture children? i -- think congress would let them. didn't think the republican water -- party would fall in loan. he wanted to bill they would wall and get rid of all illegal immigrants, um wanted a deportation force. wanted to kill the family member of terrorist is no position that he took that wasn't too extreme. wanted to finish women who hadbergs. -- had abortions. ... but what has tried to do should not be surprising to anybody. he is very clear hey did not hide anything he wanted to do when he was on the campaign trail. jack found he make a really good point. that's part of the reason i called the book separated not just because of the physical separation like awad and josé had to endure. but we have all had a mental separation of how we got to this point. the fact that under 30 years under democratic and republican administration starting with the clinton of integration we've had return policies are coming in taking deadly roots and often dying in the progress for the factual did this and i know i now understand, but did not know the time, was only possible because of previous presidents. obama did not have a separation policy but he did deport more than any other president histor history. we should remember that whether or not there is another ministration that comes in november, this is just the way it is. it is america, family separation is a natural outgrowth although an extreme one of the system may have heard so so the present administration, the current of the obama is why we need comprehensive reform because you said the structures were in place to allow the trump administration to exploit them. but you talk about separated they were separated from how we got here, how about the way we are separated from what's actually happening, in some cases underneath us. you talk about crossing over the united states/mexico border to tijuana. underneath you is a woman who is a mother. i was reading this that night trying to go to sleep and i started crying like a baby because i just ass i realized i'm going round living my life, playing with my 1-year-old, grilling on the barbecue. i met billick got this coronavirus is difficult that is nothing compared to the horrors that families experience every day. and they are experience that to give the kids a better life. i was on page 74 and 75 they talk about mother and daughter separated from each other in the many flights they took their many different countries to get to tijuana and turn themselves into her they're not sneaking across the board are there turning themselves in. so they want to have asylum at the point of entry not between the port of entry they think people are running across the border they are running across and searching out. so they are looking for a border control on legacy customs we come back from the airport to say i am here to declare asylum. so and so she did. her daughter was taken away from her. she is the woman who amazon was the first lawsuit. so she became is known as ms. l. we were talking about this the parents and children who have been reunited successfully thanks to the aclu, or lawsuit against the trump of menstruation would not have bee been. she became the name point on the class action suit. what you're talking about is basically adjacent to between tawana and san diego. there is a prison, jail, with everyone occult under the groun ground. in that location is where she was retained and taken away for a daughter who is taken to chicago. she didn't know chicago was a man's name, where it was, what these people were talking about she could hear the whales of her daughter screaming and crying for her mother. a document it's put in the book, kiersten nielsen was sent an article about her and her case. on the fact this was becoming a pr crisis, after rapid dna test was able to get her approved actually was her daughter they claim she is not her daughter but she ultimately stayed on the case and because of her case, the aclu was had an injunction to stop the policy and then to ultimately force the government to come up with a plan and reunite all these kids and their parents. or at least as many as they could. so you talk about heroes in this book and she is one of them. commander white, delacruz. he forgets her questions are sent to andrea that people want to ask we got to touch upon what is been the controversy of the day. which is so reporting that he did about katie muller. she is pushing back, the administration is pushing back saying they didn't hear you said first of all what did you hear her say? so i want to make sure i get it right. 354. i was out to dinner, drinks with katie muller the spokesperson after a long day of work in washington d.c. unlike katie muller had said to me about the separation and the other person i was with asked her about that on behalf of the trump administration this is in that she said to me previously again as to the calico sitting with my colleagues told me when i have kids i will think about the separation differently. but i don't think so. dhs sent me to the border to see separations myself, to try to make me more compassionate but it did not work. it didn't work? so i will never forget what i saw seriously are you aye nationalist i asked exasperated. note that i believe if you come to america you should assimilate. why do we need to have little havana? well katie muller through the white house spokesperson said she denied she said this. what i wrote in response was i was not the only person to hear, was sitting at the table with another person you can read on page three to 54 of the book which i talked about on the show she did not reveal who owes sitting within the book. would you like to reveal who i was sitting with at the time? so you are sitting with me, i was there sitting next to you and i was five months pregnant at the time because i asked as a five month pregnant woman i thought i can't imagine ever doing this myself, how could you do it? you think it will change if you have kids? and that was her response. >> you are the one who asked her the question parents are at cut you off she absently said she was sent down to the border to make her more compassionate it didn't work and she absolutely said -- i asked her she is aye nationalist, i remember i was surprised you said that. when she responded with there's just a little havana so she said all those things. and it is problematic for the trump administration right now for the president on his reelection because florida is a state he needs to win their polls are showing he's not winning. the cuban population is a large population of that state. if he wants to win it, he needs at least some of them. i've been thinking a lot about this because i don't want to be accused of lying especially in the white house briefing room. but not only were you there, not only has she had similar versions of this to other people not other have other sources reached out since they read this quote in the book that she had said similar things to them, but let's not forget she was also the lead spokesperson for the department of homeland security denying a family separation policy was existing when i had seen it with my own eyes. so ultimately, i'm fine with people making up their own minds, i was there you were there other people had similar ones. so and she confirmed she was sent down there for that very reason for it there's no doubt about it she posted pictures about it on her instagram. they were there for anyone including myself to see. so look the book is not about katie muller. the book is about how family separations could possibly happen in america. how the united states government could systematically torture under mylar blankets and cages supervised 5400 children and traumatizing for the rest of their lives. one official told me it is the greatest humanitarian catastrophe of my lifetime people like scott lewis this is a direct quote and he responds with the book it's a most prolific child abuser at american modern history. all he wanted to do was how could this possibly have happened? and the answer is uncomfortable. is not politically easy to digest. and you don't have to think about it. you think about her own complicity in allowing this all happen. that's what i want to focus on. it's all there for everybody to read and they should read it. the truth is there. >> i can confirm it as well. i've got a question from you from a member of the audience i think. we sayer the question and she reported about scott lloyd had an office of refugee resettlement is chewing his idea to destroy the list to connect them to their children talked like flushing evidence down the toilet. is there anything to prosecute him? so i do not know the answer to that. first well she gives credit to dan dimon of politico that first reported an item in one of his stories of people were talking about this unaided happened over and over. they asked on the podcast which is part of the reason i want to look into it. i have heard it quite a bit also. congressman jackson lee under oath asked if you scott was ordered to answer a lift could be a katie muller style i don't know -- i'm not a lawyer i don't of the scrimmage engine criminal negligence if he lied under oath, technically to congress when he said it. but based on the interviews i this was a put on the table is in the room when outside the room and talk to the career staffers responsible for the list. they felt very clearly, very clearly according to people who know what they're thinking was at the time and what they had to say, that, that was the order they did come down. >> host: this is an interesting letter not sure how you're going to answer. their successful in taking the presidency and how what how fast will biden reverse the most egregious policies? is that with the dem senate? so two things about what is going to have to deal is he gonna reverse 1325 which is the law julian castro what he talked about that allows the government to step in with children and parents. and so we want to get rid of it will he attempt to get rid of it? because the truth is the obama administration wanted to circumvent and be able to retain families just like the trump administration they just did not use family separation as a wedge to make that happen. you can ask anybody that was involved in the administration. they may have had similar policy goals that very different ways about going about fixing it. the other thing is real quick, what are they going to do when tens of thousands of children tried to stream into the united states. right now because of coronavirus there on the other side of the border. how is biden going to deal with that? gotta find another way to these children don't have to be detained. that put the state nation into the outrageous operates back the law you're talking bout which makes crossing the border a criminal offense not a civil offense for its back the federal government the ability to people with illegal into the community. civic the obama administration unless it was a case of illegal reentry coming multiple times or they presented a danger to the safety, well-being of the children. they did not prosecute. they decided we are going to charge every single person goes to the board of the crime of entering illegally. i don't took off on too much of a tangent but the fact is many migrants did not have a choice but to enter illegally it was metering and they waited in the long line to overcome. the trump administration force that "that's what he said" is that eight-man made crisis. >> here is another importance important to member ice is only 17 years old. right now it seems like those of the human rights violence and detention camps. given the current call to defund the police to imagine public safety what are steps congress can take to abolish eyes to overhaul our current immigration system? so is just like this conversation around defining the police. what is the degree to which you want to defund or abolish eyes? going to change the rules and so it ends up in ice custody or do you want to get rid of the enforcement agency. don't forget ice is not just the ones that are apprehended at the border ice retains families all the time with what's interior enforcement. there are migrants living in this country" include interior of the country. how far do you take it. i've certainly think they moved to the left on this but with the bomb administration there is never in the mainstream party calling for that. so i spoke with jacob in june 2019 after off the record after visiting in mcallen texas as a florets compliance attorney we discussed extensively the horrific conditions by children and families in custody deeply appreciate jacob's efforts and for writing this book on a topic so important but that is so easily for many to forget. my question is, what can every day americans do to push for humane treatment of detained children? so pay attention to what's will not speak out. guess what guys when everybody got into it after the family separation policy broke into the headlines that's when president trump ended it. i talk about behind-the-scenes how he oath of millie became pressured to do so by a ivanka trump and other people inside the white house. then like the sight and sound of families being separated. the only reason we saw that is the pressure of activists, turtles, not just myself but many journalists down there and the people who flooded the streets of the united states to protest. right now there's rudder 130 parents and children at risk of separation today. the judge hearing california's order the children release because of an outbreak of coronavirus and ice detention paid the trump administration and not commit to releasing the parents and children together. they are still having the separation of these kids on the table pair they have to file a plan today so i should look at this after i hang up to see what they said. but as of yesterday they had not taken it off the table by the 17th of july they have to release these children. >> no more at what's happening on ice facilities right now. >> my colleague and i reported today i know she's on the show theo the outbreak and the detention center. almost half of the staff think 127 of 300 have tested positive for coronavirus. because of that declarations for immigrants from staff members current employees we've spoken with have told their under staff, migrants are being left unlocked out inside these facilities instead of treated humanely and potentially released with the discretion of ice because of the virus. these are detained because their quote unquote criminals they came here to seek asylum and the government gives them locked up. what this reporting indicates they weren't ready for coronavirus there still an outbreak of coronavirus and many of these facilities. one of them said we are in a war zone. that's a conditions there in right now. the people aren't risk are not just the detainees. >> how far is this -- now that your dad twice over now. you have know what you had a cup baby girl couple months ago. >> they are not here it's too noisy to talk to you during all that. asked them to leave. certainly not as hard as what any of these families went there, not even close. you'd think to revisit the memory the active find the notebooks i used to take notes on these facilities it made my heart pound when i went to the storage unit and pick up and open it for the first time to recall the sights and sounds of being there. i'm sure i have some measure of whatever, i don't know, some kind of trauma from seeing this myself. it makes me sick. actually every time i talk about being in the station, but i am just a reported that when in there and sought and documented to. there are many of us in 5400 people who were again tortured in the human rights by the united states government and act perpetrated by the quote unquote greatest country in the world. and it is them who went through -- who really went through something. jacob i'm so proud of you for writing this book. you brought a terrible moment back into the spotlight revealing there are still kids suffering it's important and it's a good read for people who want to understand the process by which the trump administration decided to take kids away from their parents. the book is called separated, inside an american tragedy. i encourage everyone to go out and buy it. i also want to say thank you to in our hometown of los angeles there is nobody better than andrea. [laughter] [inaudible] so we should also apologize to cadiz husband the cohost of cbs this morning who probably should've been sleeping hours ago but katie was talking so loud is deafly still awake. he has to be in the studio. >> what time does have to wake up tomorrow? so i don't know i'm asleep. right katie thank you. so thanks to both of you everybody this book is so wonderful. it is such an important work and i appreciate you both of you being here at such a complex issue. you guys touched on the tip of the iceberg. this book has in a norma's amount of information we really need to look at and digest in the storm. again, november is approaching rapidly. so thank you. thanks to both of you. see you soon i hope. get this book go to writers block to present to get a signed copy. thanks so much. so thank you andrea. thank you everybody for being here. so binge watching book tv this summer, saturday evening at 8:00 p.m. eastern settle in a watch several hours of your favorite authors bird tonight we are featuring books written by former presidents including jimmy carter, george hwb bush, bill clinton, george w. bush, and barack obama. watch saturday august 8 as we feature books written by first ladies including rosalynn carter, barbara bush, hillary clinton, laura bush, and michelle obama. binge watching book tv all summer on cspan2. so during a virtual event hosted by new york city strand bookstore "new york times" columnist ross interviewed author tera burton about her new book strange rights. this portion of the program she describes how use on religion are changing in america. >> so we are not necessarily talking about people who are atheists although about 6% of the population because atheists tend to self underreport. we talk about people who for whatever reason are alienated by institutional religion, organized religion who feel they have nothing to offer them who may as the case of the people who believe in that traditional judeo christian god still have some form of faith but are unwilling to identify with or participate in it as of itself part of her talk about the spiritual but not religious. we also talked about about a broader category and my book i called and the religious remix not just the spiritual but not religious which is the most visible part of the phenomenon but people who do identify kick engine tick the box with traditional religious but his personal practices beliefs are more eclectic statistic i like to bring up here to show you how widespread it is about 30% of self identified christians say they believe in reincarnation. which is not shall we say one would associate with christian orthodoxy. so we are living in an age, i would argue, where religious life, the components of a religious life meeting purpose, community, ritual, we are relating to them in a different way we are mixing and matching. we are on bundling. there is a sense in which we are all sort of the end play of this is we are all making our own religion, it's not just element of the traditional religion political activism, the modern occultism, witchcraft and neo- paganism and woodcutters are among the fastest growing in america. so to watch the rest of this program visit our website booktv.org. use a search box at the top of the page to look for the title of her new book, strange rights. ♪ ♪

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