About an hour and 45 minutes. I want to thank everyone for joining us for the official remote hearing. I want to make sure to note specific requirements. Let me begin by saying Committee Rules and practice continue to apply during the hearings. Members are reminded they are expected to adhere to decorum. With that said, the period designated by the speaker, 965, from the rules committee in a manner that respects the rights of all members to participate. House regulations require members to be visible during the proceedings so keep your camera on. Also if you participate in other proceedings please exit this one and log back in later. Of the member encounters technical issues that prevent them from being recognized for their questioning i will go to the next available measure member of the same party and recognize that member of the next appropriate time slot provided they have returned to the proceedings. Should the members time be interrupted by technical issues i will recognize the next appropriate spot for the remainder of their time once their issues have been resolved. If you lose connectivity during testimony or questioning i will conserve their time to resolve technical issues. I may need to provide time for the witness to reconnect. Finally, remember to remain muted until your recognize to minimize background noise. In accordance with rules established on the hr 965 staff has been advised to use participants only in the event of background noise. If the member wishes to be recognized they must unmute themselves and seek recognition at the proper time. Thank you. Since february, the outbreak of covid19, the entire us economy, this crisis has hit americas Small Businesses especially hard. Small businesses have been experiencing a decrease since march and an estimated 7. 5 million Small Businesses are at risk of permanent closure as a result of this crisis. Members of this committee and legislators, we have a responsibility to secure funds to help americas Small Businesses survive the crisis. So far congress has allocated 669 billion on rent and loans through the paycheck program, Economic Injury, disaster programs known as idle. The american grant program. From the onset congress intended for the ppp and ill programs to provide immediate relief for Small Businesses to withstand the initial economic shock caused by a big pandemic but as we approach august we cannot ignore the reality that the covid19 pandemic has morphed into more devastating and expensive crisis than even some experts anticipated. And the rhetoric coming in this administration downplays the seriousness of covid19, the rush to reopen, exasperating the problem. So we must be prepared with longterm solutions that will meet the magnitude of this crisis to deal as a nation and find better data ahead. We can start by examining the policies adopted, the aftermath of the Great Recession as a model moving slower. Recognizing differences in the use devastating events, we must also remember in 2008, they are similarly uncertain. In response to the Great Recession, a series of bills provided 1. 2 billion for Small Businesses through the fda lending program. Guaranteed loans that could not otherwise access credit markets. Proves to be a critical lifeline for Small Businesses in danger. At the same time, it focuses on Small Businesses for americas recovery, interpreting worship and locking capital for the nations smallest distances. The largest contributors jumped growth in the recovery. And womenowned businesses, for the addition of 1. 8 million jobs, the nations investment, 950,000 new businesses open since 2011 and the economy continued to grow. Because of the economic contributions from small employers and independent contractors after the Great Recession, for this community to explore those proposals on how we can modify them for the covid19 era. I welcome any new ideas brought to the table by members who bring the challenges Small Businesses are facing today. Whether it is utilizing traditional programs or instituting innovative ideas, longterm economy requires us to think outofthebox but also come together in a bipartisan fashion to provide relief, as Congress Works to explore additional ways to help america reopen i hope we continue to prioritize Small Businesses, minority owned and womenowned businesses, the ones that help rebuild our nation, with sales like an into the mountable crisis. I want to thank the panelists for joining us and i yield to the Ranking Member for opening statements. Thank you, madam chair, for holding this hearing today. On this committee we know how important Small Businesses and startups and entrepreneurs are to the economy but one of the consequences of this Global Pandemic is our main streets are in real danger of longlasting damage or in the worst case permanent closure. Some have warned we could be only in the beginning of the worst wave of Small Business bankruptcies and closures since the great depression. We must be proactive in our attempt to not only sustain but recover and expand the influence of american Small Businesses and main streets in the country and recent research from universities like harvard, university of chicago, university of illinois and others have found some Small Businesses especially microenterprises might be most susceptible to permanent closure. We must Work Together and listen to those like our witnesses here today who know and appreciate that critical segment of our economy. As communities reopen, hope to find solutions that lead to fewer headlines indicating Small Businesses are closing and focus more on the recovery on which we are about to embark. I look forward to the testimony of our Witnesses Today and to our continued partnership on this committee and i think the chairwoman for working with me and our side of the aisle in making this the most Bipartisan Committee in congress and that is why we are so effective in putting together the ppp program and so many other things. I yield back. Thank you, Ranking Member. It is a pleasure. It has been an example on behalf of the American People. I would like to take a moment to explain how this hearing will proceed. He will have 5 minutes to provide a statement and each Committee Member will have 5 minutes for a question. Make sure the mic is on when you begin speaking and return when finished. I would like to thank our witnesses for taking time out of their busy schedules. Mister palmer, the president of the small investor alliance, a healthy environment for Small Businesses investing in a profitable market. Mister palmer served in executive branch from 2002 through 2005 in the commerce department, assistant secretary for legislative affairs and secretary for trade legislation. He has a degree from davidson college. A second witness, miss coin is james beard nominatorship and owner of derek county vegetarian restaurant in new york citys Lower East Side. The restaurant was the first vegetable restaurant in the city and is a pioneer of the vegetable movement and is included on the list of the ten restaurants the changed america. With two starts from your time and recognized five years in a row. Our third witness, doctor koop is professor of economics at the Michigan State university, joining the faculty at Michigan State, senior economists of the council of economic advisers to 2012. She helped is National Bureau of economic research, in new york. York philadelphia the Brookings Institution and the hoover institution. Welcome ms. Cook and now id like to turn it over to the Ranking Member mr. Chabot. Thank you again madam chairman their final witness is a fellow cincinnati in. Mr. Blackshaws ceo for centrifuges startup incubator a startup incubator created by Procter Gamble or p g and saw people refer to, kroger and western southern of the major entities in her Greater Cincinnati community. He previously served as global head of Digital Marketing and social media at the Global Headquarters in switzerland. He recently served as chairman of the board of the National Council of Better Business bureaus and is now sharing a recently chartered supply chain and do commerce restart committee. He is a graduate of Harvard Business school and the university of california santa cruz. I recently had the pleasure of meeting with pete via an Online Platform with the cincinnati chambere of commerce and he was truly impressed, or i was truly impressed with his forwardrd thinking ideas on the recovery. I hopeve he was impressed but i know he will provide valuable insight to the committee and look for to hearing all the witnesses here today. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Shabbat, and thank you all for being here today. Ive now would like to begin by recognizing mr. Coleman for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you for giving me, thank its committee for giving a chance to share sbasha you would have a Small Business Investment Companies can accelerate the recovery of great chops for the longterm. My neighbors brett palmer and the president of Small Business investor alliance, trade association represent small biz invested including sbi sees here their break is in Venture Capital and private equity firms that provide longterm capital into american Small Businesses. D the ensuing government mandated shutdown. The economic disruption has expose amplified and intensified preexisting problem space by the nations Small Businesses. Its also created new ones. These implications affect vast numbers of small as is that the pain is not in lay spread by jogger for Industry Sectors or even. To make sure that the have matching benefits. Addressing the immediate needs for Small Businesses that also makes the future needs. Incentive normal stimulus spinning with his spending is to congress does the chance to focus on the longterm and to empower indepth by the private sector, provides outside job creation and sustainable benefits to communities by fully utilizing the sbia program. Our economic problems are intensively longlasting but access to Patient Capital are core two Minutes Solutions to the problems we face. Improving the sbia program to address them those problems tht previously existed challenging to accessing Patient Capital which is particularly acute in low income areas both rural and urban even more acute for equity capital. Equity capital. And only a couple of areas in the Country Living the rest of us behind. Largest disparities in the startup and growth activity. Underrepresentation by women and minorities in both funds, and Small Businesses accessing capital. And to feel small funds which provide smaller investors in smaller communities. A list of new problems as well. Massive unemployment, there are many Small Businesses. 22 percent of Small Businesses are now out of business that is by some estimates. The catalyst 32 percent of hispanic owned businesses facing up to 41 percent of black owned businesses lost. And a national catastrophe. The american spirit that strong. Small businesses will need to access Patient Capital. It is equity capital. Longterm debt and equity like debt is capital that can sustain the ups and downs and the starting of any an economy even a pandemic. We also need to remove penitential barriers to minorities and women forming but these funds. In the need to be smaller considering or parts of the country because all funds really are able to handle smaller markets. So the framework is a good one. But this experience is a very he spurs in the last recession and it needs a response about the old needs or and fulfilled in the 90s. Its modifying, many programs that is faster and more affordable and more effective read so they propose a couple of the changes to the existing program locating new programs but just of modifying the improvement asked congress to offer nonempty forming more sbics pretty in my license would remove penitential barriers to minorities and women entering the program while providing needed small dollar investments across the country. The program should also be modified to enable them to provide more in the most patient the most job creating capital predict equity. The Audit Congress look at the athis program, equity investmens but by Small Business Investment Companies commonly created over 400 sometimes in over 500 new jobs per investment and we need those jobs. Those of existing tools that provide patient equity and provide capital there currently appointed by geography. They should be available to all Small Businesses. And they are encouraging them to look for opportunities making investments into underserved communities. Finally, it would be very helpful if the offices of innovations, be fully staffed and have the technology that is to be fully effective. They been held back that from years and that theres an opportunity for us to do more. That would be longterm and investment with longterm benefits but i would also like to thank the committee for having oversight hearing last fall. Its probably an Oversight Community rated i had never seen like that in 25 years. Those very helpful. It is been transformative and positive. And its really turned around and doing great. Thank you for your oversight and thank you for this hearing and i look forward to answering questions. Thank you argued now i would like to recognize the next person. Please let me remind members you need to keep your cameras on. Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me. My experience and Paycheck Protection Program, other independent restaurants and my name is minute. Governor, Lower East Side of menton is buried the chairwoman, spin along front of it for Business Owners. And is my honor to be here today. Fine dining in new york, we started back in 2008. With just 18 seats pretty and quickly we grew our first location. Also owner of the leadership team. Nearly four politician, across the country frederick congressional district, organize for the first time in response to the enemy. We represent 500,000 restaurants. Dining establishments. [inaudible]. And how we use the ppe and what we need to do to drive it which is really your help. A week ago today, the First Time Since new york and the shutdown orders. Dramatically alter our menus. Number of our dishes are really not conducive to heat in the rain, the land in our community. [inaudible]. Is not really the most romantic location. I was unable to pay my employees during the shutdown. So many like unemployment and other jobs. Unclear when we could reopen again. So fight have the costs and the dining remains low, theres absolutely no way that my company can survive. Theres a larger issue. Going out to a restaurant, to be considered safe. And when the pandemic hit, i laid off all 35 employees. Six weeks ago, i rehired one person to get ready to reopen his art form. As of today ive only hired back six of my employees. And i dont see hiring others for the foreseeable future. Its only possible because the ppe. And it went to affect the only reason i can afford to reopen at all. Even if my doors are open, theres still 29 or more people count counting on this for the work. Some restaurants cannot access ppe because the banks took care of other customers first rejected their applications. Some cannot afford to make a mistake. They seem to run out in the not bridged for the time needed in order to Fund Operations needed. One think it would be enormously impactful for the Restaurant Industry, restaurant act. The chairwoman coast binder this bill for which im especially grateful. As have a more members of this committee. Independent restaurants generate 271 billion in direct and direct Economic Activity. Passing this bill would reduce the Unemployment Rate by 2. 4 percent. 85 percent independent restaurants have been able to close without that health. Lets help avoid this disaster. We need your help. My testimony about the ppe the significant changes that congressman in late spring. Into an 18 month problem for restaurants. The loan allowed me to reopen. His stuff we do allow me to stay open. Even if it is forgiven. It does not stand alone. Restaurant supports farmers, ranchers, vineyards, many more people. Imagine any trip to new york. Chicago or san francisco, charleston, washington dc. Without being able to visit the great restaurants that they are known for. Entertainment restaurants runs millions of tourists from all over the world. 2019, total spending on domestic and International Travelers into services in the United States was 279 billion pretty is more than double the amount that Fund Recreation retail. Thank you again for the opportunity to be here. And tisha the story of my independent restaurant with you. I sincerely hope to help. Thank you for the work you have been doing. Thank you. I would now like to recognize the next person for five minutes. Chairwoman, and breaking member, thank you for the opportunity to address the committee on Small Businesses on the topic of solutions for Small Business recovery. Since the epidemic and the resulting economic and financial crises are fully. As a result, small firms are in crisis quick action of congress has in some way, to lessen some of the pain associated with hispanic and reduced recession. Small businesses keep paying employees in the 670 billiondollar Paycheck Protection Program. Pe. In the in Small Businesses was a critical thing for Small Businesses. Some are in good shape. 73 percent reported their financial help was good or stable. Nonetheless, the Financial Health of the Small Businesses, very greatly depending on the ethnicity of the owner. Compared and 27 percent of small white firms regarding they were at risk are in distress, 49 percent a small hispanic firms and 57 percent of small black barbs reported being at risk or distrust. Blacken hispanic firms, were modest prepared by this pandemic. According to the federal reserve, they are three times more likely to close relative to other firms due to a twomonth revenue shock. In the concentration of small minority or on firms in certain sectors makes them more vulnerable the wake of covid19. The sectors in which many small minority owned firms are overrepresented are a combination of conservatives in retail. Barely made it is estimated that 100,000 Small Businesses are 2 percent of Small Businesses that already closed. Im in june, these businesses, 140,000 about closed since marcd june. 35 percent are shocking and Retail Businesses listed have closed closed doors temporarily pretty 53 percent of restaurants close their doors permanently. Small business closures is also unevenly distributed. Africanamericans businesses reported being close, compared to 35 percent overall. And the only surveys providing Demographic Data on ppe, loan recipients, 35 percent or 45 percent of black and latino businesses were closed by the end of the year without more relief. Minority orange businesses were all also not able to access these loans. They have had restorative relationships over one third of Small Businesses reported saying reduced or deferred payments party in the most recent survey, majority of macroeconomists believe there will be a partial rebound in Economic Activity and then slow recovery rather than a vshaped shop recovery. The slower than anticipated recovery, and with the experience of ppe, a liturgist committee to consider what it might do in the short and long run to address the Small Business crisis. Now, i would support policy action that would modify ppe work alongside the enhanced Unemployment Insurance benefits under the cares act. The revolving mainstreet act, from senators proposes such a modification. This will provide grants to especially hardhit small firms pretty and cover fixed cost. In the employers use shortterm compensation arrangements are system such as that the employers avoid layoffs and instead would reduce hours by each employee firm. Employees within continue to receive an employment insurance on a prorated basis to compensate for reduced wages. In a matter what the indication, demographically this should be collected at the loan or Grant Application fade in any future modified ppe efforts. Not just on the back end of the program. Data was supposed to be that the most vulnerable firms would be prioritized. Not only should they be current and additional many to be targeted at these firms. Policymakers should continue in the long run, Distribution Channels for aid in the future they could provide small firms directly tha. Most importantly, the human and technological that the f be a due process and implement swiftly and efficiently, such a program is the ppe should be moving along significantly. The longstanding importance, to middleclass, and the contributions to the economy overall, this Capacity Building shouldve happened long ago. At this point, financial crisis and sba will need to be better prepared to meet these challenges. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. I just have one or message. And that is the best way to help Small Business owners rising this very important world and uncertainty. Start ups. Domain ivy league entrepreneurs. The referring to the next generation taking on big unsolved challenges in every sector of our society and turning them on their heads. And in many of the start of founders are women and minorities, growing percentage. They are coming from the midwest. We are living in an age of an ending, with a structure going to become more common. In some ambiguous and it requires leadership precisely with the start mindset. To be clear, the urgent needs as you have heard the Small Business owners need help right now. Access to capital and policies, all critical and necessary but we also to look beyond the present to a future that is going to be even more demanding on the moment that we are living on today and to do so, with urgency. Now many of us talk about reselling her of stealing, neither my view, we need startups. Asada minute set five either rapid prototyping, concentration. Learn fast. If data, and how to exploit it. Its very digital. I think startups should be a national priority. But perhaps by the fda involving corporations, universities and startup systems. Now woodley going to look like. First it is showing Small Business owners how they can apply started thinking, technologies to their own ventures. For example, we hosted the program collector in partnership with j. P. Morgan chase over one weekend. Several dozen minority led businesses. We give mentors and show them how to leverage technology. Broaden google rated and i think we should be doing this constantly. Every weekend in fact. And what is known as micro can credentialing aimed at urban and rural areas. The university of ohio for example is muscle that is tight credit taking them outside of the tower bringing them into the community with different types of credentialing focusing on new business skills. And in finance marketing and accounting. Think we need a lot more of that. And we need to embrace a university to do that. I think learning from the additional natives. You have grown up digital. And at summer virtual academy. His way over prescribed. In the high school or college. Theyre addressing challenges to the covid19, social justice, and we are challenging them to show ways and they played that they brought radically, as a part of a better future. Thirdly, what you think about, mobilizing and platforming Small Business services. Dont shoot the messenger. But as an hour worth of testimony, your digital absent website, you name it. I think the sba in particular needs at digital startup. I would encourage you to think about why cant garrett create an open innovation platform. To outsource easier for Small Businesses. Its not just about money, its about time and simplicity. So why not take greater advantages of microsoft, amazon. To be facebook, for example had more than 3 billion users including tens of millions of Small Business users. And theres a lot of deeper issues on that im not going to get into here. Why not invite them to cope develop the next generation of for Small Business services as startups. Not annette campaign but an fda and steroids. That would be a game changer overnight. My final observation is that i think that the little distinction between the tech startup in a momandpop Small Business. Their both based on a problem that needs to be solved. In the desire to take a shot rated and whether we are talking about skills and technology and the smalltown service. Were talking about the same thing. Businesses built on the ingenuity and passion and persistence of people some of that one to make a Company Better in the country better by putting a better way. Thus it the entrepreneurialism. Lets startups america. Thank you. Thank you. I now recognize myself for five minutes. Congress responded to the Great Recession by making a couple of changes to the fda loan programs including a guarantee on loans and reducing results. This congress waits, proposals for Small Businesses. Would you recommending think those changes to the lending programs. Right now going forward. I would because it has to be encouraged. But i would also that the Digital Transformation is something that i was for money. When i was at the white house and in 2011 and 2012, i think this is absolutely given. Of this crisis and this is got to be matched with the seed of Digital Infrastructure. Capacity building at fda. Yes. This is one of the things that we need to keep in mind essentially the integration and they need the budget. Because they take resources. As the virus continues to spread in our country, we have seen states once reopen the restaurants and bars, are now shutting them down again. How has the multiple closures affected the industrys. Managed chairwoman. Multiple closures part of the restaurants. We lose our customers we loose our hope. They will finish off a number of independent restaurants. Thank you. And what about the proposal targeted in circumstances like once you have a long road to recovery. For shut down. Why does the fda current Economic Relief program in hospital talent he industry need. In one targeted relief necessary read. Hospitality industry has issues. We depend on gatherings of a lot of people in a small space that generates revenue for it is a lot of people not mms akamai will not be able to continue to pay for my staff. I cannot take on any more debt with any of these other programs. And specifically work for the Restaurant Industry. [inaudible]. Thank you, the initial period of time. To have all of the questions that we need to add. What we have seen so far. A relief for Small Businesses. The focusing on financing. Specifically with these programs. I our local economy tends to slowly reopen and recover. Small businesses, what will they need in terms of long term capital and the role of the Small Business administration for the sba see times. For providing information. I think amanda there, do pretty well putting a lot of businesses, they are up to their eyeballs in debt. And they are really going to look for Patient Capital. They need something that is not going to cause the banks that are already in forbearance calling in on the loans. To provide capital. Any other equity or equity like capital. Theres some tools are existing in the ferc platform. The very patient we can draw alone the whole payments for five years. And you pay after that. Its an improvement tool right now. So a lot of plans cant use it. Opening up tools like that would be very helpful the recovery of businesses and as you add more to offer that, it will be even more beneficial. Thank you my time has expired. Thank you and ill begin wi with, you testified before the Committee Many times pretty we appreciate you being here. How important is it that we evaluate current Government Programs to reduce duplication in order to ensure that her programs are the most effective that they can be. I think it is critical point and i think right now congress at the time, to really focus. And when the cares act was created, the ppe was a lifesaver. Its a Brilliant Program and thank you for doing it. It certainly problems with her because it was written at the front end of economic tornado getting it. I have the time to really look at it make sure that its effective and not duplicative. In the really adjusting to the Different Energy sectors and geography and different types of capital. So think it is necessary. Thank you. How can the Nitro Program that you mentioned serve as an example for future efforts and was there anything that could have been improved any representations that you would make to us. Thank you for the question. My first right is that we treated episodically. Looking back, we can do that. I want everybody here to think about it and hearing right now. The ability to conduct Skilled Services and intimacy in the form of like any type of training. As one of exponentially so sleazy to parachute in an expert who can help with Small Business owners to pick up a critical skill. Theyre very critical foundational entry digital capabilities that even the ice cream shop needs to understand it to be competitive in the marketplace today. I think the opportunity, like how to be skillets. I think its a big opportunity that more companies to subsidize the efforts and the government to pay for it. I think there is a winwin for everyone. But we can bring this on mind set, digital kind of agility and then definitely leverage the power of Virtual Party did not to take care away from the offline. Still power their freedom that we can do a lot of critical needs really fast. Thank you very much. In your testimony you discuss up people still feel unsafe going restaurants. The same could be said for other industries as well such as tourism. What can we do to help people to feel a sense of safety and security can. So that the restaurant and others will be moving in the right direction. Unfortunately im not sure that we can get anybody to feel safe until we get a vaccine. I think thats the reality. In the meantime, not forcing restaurants to have an open up click there and they feel comfortable with. They cannot congregate too many people month space. We have to make people feel safer it is like job at the restaurant, to make when customers feel safe. In my employees so that everybody can come in and dine. Phil relax which is what they should do in a restaurant. I can do that, from looking at my bottom line, im done. You felt that we were likely to experience a slower recovery. If you had one thing that you could change, what would it be. I would echo the sentiments of amanda collins. There has to be attention paid to covid19 first. Theres nothing else. I had to choose one thing. That we would devise a relief. Two businesses in the American People that had to do with addressing the healthcare crisis. I think i have time to squeeze in one more question. Mr. Buckshot back to you again. Were obviously both in the midwest here. And you mentioned the midwest. Most specifically, is encouraging startups and are part of the country in the midwest released prior to the covid19 crisis. And how can we continue to fuel the start of culture that we havent seen. I think it is critical, the entries of the entrepreneurs. Native californians who dont want to disparage my number state. But there is a cost im sure that gets in the way of the independence to jump in early. To perhaps learn. And i located my partner from cincinnati, the burn rate. I think the equality or quality of life. And its a wonderful synergy especially in the Greater Cincinnati but also Northern Kentucky with a Large Company are very open. In a very humble way. Lets look for startups. They can they configure a big big challenges and sometimes we can figure out. More the mid west the nicene of the locations. I think those are just a few of the factors that really play out pretty think wherever you are, and supporting the ecosystem, it is critical. Those formulas can work. Let me just unmute it. Thank you very much metta german. I want to the Ranking Member for convening this particular hearing. I think its extremely forward looking topic. A has to be dealt with. And we been able to deal with a major topic which is the pandemic. I apologize for just getting on. A recently in of the democratic caucuses got underway. Its been an interesting discussion find i would reserve time to im not deliberately hard and deliberately redundant what i would like to talk about. I would welcome the discussion from others. [silence]. Is your microphone on. From minnesota, recognized for five minutes. [silence]. You need to unmute. [silence]. I think there are technical difficulties read. [background sounds]. [silence]. The next person is recognized for five minutes. Can yall hear me. Yes. I appreciate you all. I would like to know for mr. Palmer, and testimony mentioned up to 22 percent have failed due to the covid19 but that number by an estimated 50 percent of black and Small Businesses. That is a huge disparity. In the troubles me greatly. [background sounds]. I worked in and around my community. And im concerned about that. I think we will rectify the problem. A. Is a real problem. Once we sort of get the economy stabilized, foundational us countability. I will set them aside. I think we really need to look at the equity capital. Any brown the Washington Post last week, roundabout capital. Nichols the rocket fuel for job creation. In the hands of the black entrepreneurs. I i think we need to provide more funds. That more women Fund Managers and lack Fund Managers. And what we can form funds by broadening out that hoops. And amplified in the with a really great jobs and ownership of businesses. But we have to be deliberate about the real barriers. Most black entrepreneurs have just left capital. In sort of capital that in black orchid for no versus why come about 136. That is a barrier. So they need external capital. In more small winter months. And more small funds brother country not just concentrated in the three areas where they spend most of it now. And even more than a regional and, would be very beneficial no. What had a lot of times here is funds are available. But nobody knows how to get to us. Yet the Good Old Boy Network but there may be ways to educate as well. But as you see huge duplication and i dont see anything getting done. Adjusting the people in these organizations, not saying getting anything done. I think theres been some studies done that a lot of black entrepreneurs dont get loans and part because the law as for them because they think that would be turned down. They dont have the connection in the community or in that region. The Financial Providers both banks and others did you a far better job at an average of letting folks know how to access the capital. It is there in many cases. What do you think of nonprofits due to increase capital and promote [inaudible] i think the private sector is the driver for it. Nonprofits, theres lots of different nonprofits that can be facilitated and educators and provide the rules. Mr. Blackshaw is an example of that as farw, as training those entrepreneurs about how to access the capital, howd asked for the right kinds of capital, the right amounts but prepared for it to increase are likely a success we did tax policy and regulatory policy that really encourages and augments and doesnt create barriers to access. We can see both of them working together in a deliberative fashion. Thank you. Ms. Cohen, i dig your enthusias enthusiasm. Never been to new york before. You can probably tell from a accent on the audio from the part of tennessee, but i was wondering about the Ripple Effect that will occur in our communities with the Restaurant Industry creating gainfulul employment. What can we do to limit these effects to make our economy recover faster . Firstt off you are invited to my restaurant anytime you are in new york. Is it a vegetarian restaurant . Its a vegetarian restaurant, a budget restaurant but it is delicious. Okay, if you say so. The best thing you do support ourng restaurant act. That will put more money back into my restaurant and i can put it back outt into the economy ad start supporting my suppliers again. I need help get them back up on their feet. The only way i can do that is if i have some money to spend on them. How much time do i have left . Have i run over . Almost, to second. Do what . To second. Okay. I will yield back the remit of my time. Thank you soer much. Im glad my wife is not here to see because if she saw a wonderful outfit you are wearing on the way home i would have to be looking for that. Thank you. Thank you so much. As always your hospitable to me. Trying the time of the gentls expired. Ms. Chu is directed a. Yes. Mr. Palmer, im so glad you are here to express how important sbic is and how much more potential it has to address our covid19 economic crisis. Since its infection, sbi sees have created or sustained nearly 10 million jobs and yes, this program operates at extremely low risk to the taxpayers, even though there is that sba guaranty, the private Investors Capital isto completely exhaustd before that guarantee is even impacted and after all this program operates at zero [inaudible] because of this, i introduced h. R. 116 the investing capital [inaudible] in sbic. The legislation but still awaits further action in the senate. Can you explain what made this program so successful since the last economic recovery and not investing more effective as our economy recovers from the covid pandemic . Thank you very much for that question and for your support of sbics and mickey that correction that would allow more banks to put capital into sbics. Ill mention there are couple reasons why the program works. First it works because the passes the private sector requirements. Second, it works because it fills a Public Policy purpose. The program really puts the taxpayer and second loss position in the private capital and first losss position and to think that makes it work. I really think w one of the this thats coming out, we have the pandemic but also have massive social unrest and and waking to some problems that existed before. We needd more smaller sbic funds and we need more smaller funds serving minority communities and you have the banks that are very interested in doing that now. We want to take with any barriers that would be in place that might limit the ability for capital provided to get capital where it is clearly needed and recreate those jobs that have been lost and restart at those businesses that may be mothballed at the moment and reempower those entrepreneurs. Thats what we do. We would like to do more of it and your legislation is a vertical part of it so thank you very much for your support. Thank you so much. Dr. Cook, people of color have suffered disproportionate health and Economic Impacts during the covid19 pandemic. As you mentioned Business Owners of color are at high risk of permanent closure which makes sbas failed to collect adequate Demographic Data on participants and recovery programs like Paycheck Protection Program especially harmful. For example, sba failed to collect any racial Demographic Data for 94 of the nearly 500,000 ppp loans under 150,000 that were made in california. That makes you expected on 6 of the businesses that actually got those loans. Given californias diverse population that is unacceptable. One thing i go, these businesses need help so i plan to introduce legislation to authorize sbas Community Advantage loan program which provides access to affordable government backed capital to underserved markets and under this legislation businesses owned by minorities, womeneg and veterans will provie technical assistance. Talk about the role the program is designed to reach underserved Small Businesses should play in our longterm recovery. Well, one of the key features of entrepreneurship in america is that it has been a path to the middle class. Its been ala path to wealth and certainly for minority businesses, given the losses they suffered, minority suffered especially blacks and hispanics suffer during the Great Recession, this would go some way to close the racial wealth gap. I think entrepreneurship is just so critical to the American Experience to both income and wealth, the kind of attention that would be given to it i think would be well worth it. And why is it so important . Im sorry, i didnt hear the last part. Demographic information homeport. Because as i mentioned in my remarks, the black and hispanic businesses especiallyni were already vulnerable. So if you want to really make sure that youre making sure that the recovery is even, they should be targeted. You all articulated they should be prioritized and for good reason. I think if theres an extension, any additional relief going to Small Businesses to make sure to target these businesses. Collect the data, Demographic Data. The gentleladys time has expired. Now we recognize the gentleman from minnesota. Thank you, madam chair, and Ranking Member chabot. Mr. Blackshaw, what do you think we most effectively bring quote start of skill you mention in your testimony to Rural America . Thank you for the question. Clearly the first thing think we need to continue to take a close look at internet Broadband Access in rural districts. Anything we can do to equalize access i think is really important. In the state of ohio theres a a concerted effort on that and i think thats a a good for any te of kind of start up later. Theres no question digitalization pervades Everything Else i think getting that piecework is absolutely critical. One of the great things about what we are all xp meeting now is Digital Infrastructure is in place, theres incident access to training, experts parachuted in, virtual mentoring, you name it. I just challenge us to think about ical we can do that in the new environment. What were doing now complete with different model of access even in Rural Communities where i think, you know, the one opportunity in certain rural districts is we have to invent everything from scratch. Youre not burdened by legacy practice in terms of how technology is used. You basically put in a whole new broadband type enjoin pending almost as a start a point with a clean sheet of paper. Im very bullish about the opportunity but theres clearly some investment on Technology Required and obviously probably some funding as well. One of the biggest issues that has been exposed during this pandemic iss limited access to broadband in Rural America. It has been talked about for many years but many are seeing just how bad it is for the very first time. When it comes to these hearings, and we hear so wonderful ideas how to mobilize and replatform, it feels like businesses in Rural America are not considered. I think its high time that we actually take that step forward and t start investing. We need to take steps to bring parity to these Rural Businesses so they can be more resilient, and as you make it, mr. Blackshaw, volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous rural. Its critically important. I wouldus w just say from your words, mr. Blackshaw, lets definitely Work Together to bring that started skill to Rural America. We are seeing the Digital Divide, the negative effects of the Digital Divide. We have schoolchildren in Rural America that the penn center drivein to a hot spots of the can download the homework and get their homework. That is unacceptable. We also know that Rural America, that broadband is going to help keep our rural schoolchildren competitive, our rural hospitals open, and is going to bring the rural economy. People are going to move to Rural America for our quality of life. It is time now to invest in Rural America and the broadband to bring the start of skills to everyone, including not only rural minnesota Rural America. And you agree with. Was not only that, i would side of helping anyway. Its critically important. Its overdue. The opportunity and thein upsid, the payout will be massive if we make that effort. Yes, thats investment than needs to happen. Madam chair, i yield back. Thank you. The gentleman yields back and now we recognize the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. Evans. You need to unmute, mr. Evans. Thank you, madam chair. Ms. Cohen, many of my constituents in philadelphia our Restaurant Owners like yourself. Barely surviving. Coming from the city where nearly half the population is minority. Im interested in solutions that can help many groups as possible that is why i put the restaurant at the miners make up over 40 of the overall restaurant workforce. Restaurants employ more minority than any other industry. What if the Restaurant Owners come from a minority background. Ms. Cohen, can you tell me why you think the restaurant i would be more beneficial to restaurants than the idle or the ppp program . I think its more beneficial to us and thank you for the question, because both of those programs put us into debt. Restaurant operated willingly on a very slim margin. We put a ton of money back into the economy at a think its unfair at this moment to ask us to take on more debt. The restaurant act allows us to receive money without debt and put it back in the economy. Thats why it is the best program for restaurants at this moment. Mr. Palmer and dr. Cook, technology partners, initiative of the Pennsylvania Department of commerce, Economic Development suggested an idea to office on how to increase sbic investment. Investments have low fixed Interest Rate while private investors offered tole go sheeta much higher Interest Rate for its portion of the investment. However, private investors fully repaid on this portion of investment before they can start to receive investment. This means private investors often wait years before seeing any return. Can you give me your reaction to that idea . Sure. I dont know the full details but i think that im actually working with Benjamin Franklin partners to use the program are broadly and make it more accessible to small venture funds like across the country. The private investors that drive these things do demand a certain rate of return. We need to make sure that whatever products we are offering actually passes the market filter there to driveas that private capital to them, to make sure that the capital is there. If its not they just will not do it. I dont know the specific structure but im happy to work with you and your staff on it because i think Benjamin Franklin funds serve pennsylvania well. I think they are a model for lots of other states and would love to make the program more flexible to serve more funds like that in more places in pennsylvania. Dr. Cook, any reaction . I would say that anything that pushes private investors to invest in africanamerican entrepreneurs in particular is well worth it. Only 1 of African American founders received Venture Capital funding. So anything that will increase that, that kind of private capital, i think would be well worth it. Mr. Palmer, and dr. Cook real quick. Three states, california, massachusetts and new york 70 of all Venture Capital investment from 20142018, in that sames, time, i hosted pennsylvania received less than 5 of the total Venture Capital. What suggestions would you have that we could do in pennsylvania to make it p more appealing . I would suggest that not just the pennsylvania but the diversification and democratization of Venture Capital is reimagine and equity platform for the sbic spirit when the sbic e is can do more earlystage flatline vesting they are all of the country in much smaller cities and outside those three concentrated areas. We can do that in a way that is protecting the taxpayer and that would fix a lot of the problem. Thats one of the things the sba can do and you have authority on this committee over. Dr. D cooper, really quick, thoughts on that . I would say that one of the things that would attract capital to areas like yours, like mine in michigan, like black shaws b in ohio would be o invest in Digital Infrastructure. I hate to keep going back to this. I work on economics of innovation but the Digital Divide between rural and urban, for example, or from other places in the country, its critical that this is built up. We are not going to be any kind of competitive economy if we dont do this. This is indeed an investment that has to be made and be made quickly. The time of the gentleman has expired. Now we recognize the gentleman from north carolina, mr. Bishop, for fiveen minutes. Thank you chairwoman velazquez and Ranking Member chabot. Thank you to the what is for lendingg their expertise. Appreciate the interesting discussion about some new and longterm Solutions Come some og theut potential expensive but i hope tore briefly one beneficial postage and we can make right away to an existing program, some more Small Businesses remain standing once this crisis is over. Two weeks ago our Committee Heard from asto the associate administrator rivera on the of limitation of the Economic Injury Disaster Loan Program in the course ofis the dimmick. To be frank i think theyre rational for limiting the size of eidl boast a 150,000 to left a great deal to be desired. This decision not only sorely disappointed the expectations of businesses hoping to receive relief, it was in comprehensively bad credit decision. After all, if the businesses intrinsic financial circumstances warrant the 2 million loan come to extend to the one of 50,000 loan is a futile act which guarantees that only failure to the business but, of course, as if on into quite a loan as well and that in turn negative impacts u. S. Tax. Unfortunately, it is up to congresser to fix sbas error when reflecting upon a hearing and talking to constituents. And the amount previously loaned under sbas misguided, 150,000 limitation. For example, if company x would have qualified for an eidl for a Million Dollars to help weather the crisis and only received 150,000, congress would allow that business to reapply worth up to 850,000. To restore constituents faith in our relief effort and those of sba, its important that we provide the relief promised to them on the front end. To the panel, mr. Palmer, weve had good conversations and youve always supported and been open about common sense solutions. Do you think this idea of allowing businesses effectively to double dip on eidl would help more businesses to weather the storm . Im not sure id call it double dipping. The statutory was a 2 million cap. Its up to agencies to follow the explicit law with the legislative branch. One thing i think the right thing to do legally, were a nation of laws, if Small Businesses were dedicated limited time and resources accessing the amount that the law specifically allowed and they couldnt access it, thats not really fair to them and this disaster has gone on longer than expected. I think allowing people to go back and get the caps they need knowing the damages that they have seems personal reasonable to me. Thank you, i agree, i think my choice of term is really simply going back and allowing them to have what was intended in the first instance. Dr. Cook, would you agree with mr. Palmers assessment of that idea . Yes. Yes, i would. Ms. Cohen, ive heard what youve said about the restaurant legislation that would provide grants and im sure that would be your preference, but do you know of any additional restaurants that could take advantage of the ability to go back and get the full eid wil amount or somethin closer to its own circumstances that that would be a welcomed opportunity for some . I cant speak for all restaurants, but i certainly know that no restaurant i know at the moment, sort of fathom the idea of taking on more debt in the situation. Unfortunately. You think if they had a choice between additional indebtedness that would allow them the operating capital to continue or not receiving any benefit, they would like to prefer and like to have that opportunity . Thats a tough choice. Yeah, a little bit of sophies choice there. Yes, i think most restauranteurs would like to stay open, but i also know that it seems like impossible to work with the unbelievable debt hanging over your head at a time it seems we might not be able to open up at full capacity again. Thank you, i think ultimately that choice of debt is going to be hanging over somebodys head, whether the taxpayers or over the Business Owners. Thank you, madam chairman, my time is expired, or i think just about. The gentlemans time expired and now we recognize mr. Bruce snyder from illinois. Thank you, madam chairwoman and i want to thank you and and the Ranking Member for having the hearing and the witnesses for sharing your perspectives today. I know this is a difficult situation for everybody, for anyone going through the Health Crisis has lost somebody, its unfathomable, but the Economic Impact on our businesses, but in particular on our Small Businesses as noted earlier, i mean, i think its somewhere upwards of 75 of all businesses have a negative on their revenues on their business. None more so than when you talked about in the Restaurant Industry, especially our local restaurants that are so much a part of the neighborhoods that the communities that we all live in and theyre struggling. And im happy to be a cosponsor of the restaurant act because i understand how important that is. But i also will say, you know, share the thought with mr. Bishop, and mr. Palmer, thank you for saying its not double dipping. That the losses that the businesses had an opportunity to get loans up to 2 million and 150,000 was an arbitrary decision. I often used the analogy, if you build a bridge halfway across the river, you may feel good for a while and youre still going to get wet and not make it to the other side. Weve got to provide a bridge it to your economy, our economy is made up of businesses and workers in those businesses got to be doing everything they can to help and miss cohen, you would saying, i cant think of any small restaurant thats in a position to particular on more debt. Theyre just trying to barely hang on, whether its takeout service, delivery service, if youre able to open, but its going to be fits and starts, and mr. Black i loved your acronym vuca, uncertainties and you could add in i forget who said it, an eight week solution for a 18 month problem is one of our challenges. So, maybe ill turn to the two Business Owners. Looking forward with this uncertainty, what can congress do to help give stability, some confidence to help you make the heart choices to risk capital, to risk your and your employees future to try to make it to the other side . First off, thank you so much for supporting the restaurant act. Im deeply grateful for that. And not to sound like a broken record, but the best thing that congress can do is support of the restaurant act. Lets get more members to support the restaurant act. Thats the only way that i know and other restaurants know that we can open up safely. We dont have to put too many people in our dining room at once, we can keep our employees safe and we can keep our customers safe. Youre in a different type of business, what would you yeah, listen, i would think that Anyone Congress could do to reward, recognize credential is important in this environment and some of this is eyes wide open to whats already happening. A lot of the answers are out there and we need to smartly grasp the ideas that are taking place maybe in a lesserknown area and turn it into a big national idea. I think thats what i love about the digital natives, whether we like tiktok, instagram or not, theyre brilliant in finding inspiration across the world and scaling it and i think we have a golden opportunity to find those programs, those initiatives, those ways of delivering services and turn them into big students so i think that congress can play a very, very key role, shining a light on that, reinventing your platform is so important. Its not to say that the site is improving 80 per year, weve gone from a hockey stick on how we use, you know, zoom and so the expectations are so much higher and how do we bring out a cheen sheet of people how services are delivered. How you apply for loans online, we can learn and i think a lot of big tech players will gladly coinvest. I think theyre looking for opportunities to show goodwill, but i think theyre genuinely concerned on the issue to bring know how and i think that congress can really make a lot. Thank you, my last few seconds, thanks for that. I like the idea, that startup mentality. We need to create that startup, the challenges we face, not just the hockey stick, its a hockey stick on a spring, bouncing on a trampoline. The dynamics are so fast, government needs to keep up. In fact, we need to make sure the sba is leading the way and look forward with working with my colleagues. I thank everyone, i know how hard it is, keep working. Together well get through this crisis. My time expired, ill yield back. The gentlemans time expired and now we recognize tgentle lady. I hope you can hear me. Yes. And id like to echo my appreciation to the panelists and committee. As entrepreneur myself how difficult it is at the best of times to be an entrepreneur and i cant imagine how hard it is now so please make my questions just as questions because im trying to be as thoughtful and probative as i can be on behalf of the people that i represent. And so, my first question is regarding the restaurant. After this call ill be going to my team of legislators and trying to figure out what bills to get behind and what bills not to get behind. And let me just posit to you. Miss cohen possibly would probably be the most likely to answer my question. Many, many, many businesses have the situation that you have right now where youve taken the loan, you may or may not be able to use it to open on time. You may or may not be able to operate your business over this period of time. Im west of philadelphia and my Community Just opened up the again, live venues, live theater are a few of the things that i named that need just as much help as the restaurants, because it might not have quite as much lobbying powers at that the restaurants do. Why would it need more, and would the ppp be able to have trigger mechanisms for certain regions and zip codes as we come in and out of this problem, why wouldnt be better be served by taking something thats working and seeking it for everyone rather than for one industry . Thank you so much for the question, congresswoman. When the ppp eneven if it were to be extended is not a solution for us. And the Restaurant Industry is reliant on social gatherings. And thats why its affected more than any other business, unlike airlines or retailers, independent restaurants do not have access to debt or capital markets. And the Restaurant Business 85 closed without intervention. That would be disastrous for our nation, roughly 500,000. 500,000 independent restaurants and the over 11 million employees that they employ. Wouldnt you agree that Something Like live music or live theater or, really, almost everything live is in just as dire straits as your industry is . Im not advocating against any other industry receiving money, but i do think that we have less access to capital. In particular, independent restaurants. And in the situation where you would be able to evolve the ppp loan to be able to be as it is currently if you use it a certain way, it is not a loan, it is a grant and there is forgiveness. Why wouldnt we do the same and have tranches, have multiple as representative, i believe, it was bishop was talking about that genuinely in this case ppp multiple cases for capital. Was that not in the case where it was converted to a grant, would that not satisfy the Restaurant Industry and other industries. I cannot speak on behalf of other industries, unfortunately. But i think for restaurants, part of the ppp is about getting employees back on the payroll and thats very hard for what im looking at for a 18 month problem where were going to have employees come on and off and i dont want on and off payroll. I dont want to put them on payroll and take them off again. Id rather slowly build up to a time where we can actually get up fully running. I appreciate that. I dont mean to put you on the spot. Im trying to noodle over what our opportunities are. Any of the panelists in the 39 seconds i have left have anything to offer to that question. I would add something. Youre right, its not restaurants have been taken theyre a massive employer, a significant economic jobs multiplier, but there are other businesses that are particularly staging or lighting, they really have taken it on the chin. So your proposal on having tailored ppp now that we have time to be thoughtful and deliberative how were going to structure these things. The restaurant act, i know nothing about the restaurant act, but if we can be deliberate how we define injury, what they can use it for, what their needs are and deductible spends on ppp, for examplings to make your business safe and for giving one of these loans. Theres lots we can did and for some of the other Grant Programs have it where theres no payments for the first two years, its still a loan, but theres no payments for the first twoyears and the 10year treasury is running with 20 basis points. And its a small amount for a significant amount of time. And payment after the first twoyears give businesses a chance to recover that are totally shut down. Thr lots of ways to look at these things. We do have time, but not a ton of time. I yield back, i appreciate it. The gentle lady from minnesota, miss craig, is recognized. Thank you so much, madam chairwoman. Dr. Cook, i want to make a quick point on the crisis, the public Health Crisis were in here today. My int point from day one is ife handle the public Health Crisis side of this as well, that the economic crisis would take care of itself. I wanted to say i heard you in your testimony and in your q a about how critical it is that even though were on the Health Committee on Small Business, that the Congress Continues to focus on coming up with a more robust strategy as it relates to how we handle the Health Care Crisis of covid19. Miss cohen, i also wanted to say to you that im a strong supporter of the restaurants act. Im on representatives bill and my only regret i didnt offer the bill first. So thank you for your advocacy of that bill. I did, however, introduce a bill that the chairwoman was kind enough to also become an original on, that would allow folks who have seen a 50 reduction in revenue as a result of covid19, as well as have 100 or fewer employees to come back and get a second forgivable loan. Can you tell me how you think about a bill like that, which obviously is less industry specific versus the restaurants act, and sort of the compare and contrast, the value of those two actions from the part of the congress . Thank you so much for sponsoring the bill, our bill. And i think thats actually a terrific bill. The restaurant act takes care of more of our needs and that it allows us to pay back our suppliers, fuactually. Get us back up on our feet. I mean, putting our money in the payroll is incredibly important and i want all of my employees back on my payroll, but i would also really, really like to be able to open my business and put money back through my supplier. Thank you so much for that. And just a quick followup for you is, i know as we have reopened here in minnesota, many of my Restaurant Owners, independent owners have been asked to undertake safety measures, obviously, to keep customers more safe and limit the spread of covid19. Im hearing from them, even though they served far fewer customers, theyre required to put in place higher Staffing Levels to open those doors. What can congress and sba do to help lower the burdens at the same time ensuring that your employees and your customers remain safe . Im not im not sure what more that can be done. We do have to we have more people employed for me personally, i have some legal monitors. We dont have dinein service, but i have guests come in and i want to make sure the bathroom is clean as possible. I dont normally have a bathroom attendant in my 40seat restaurant so im not sure what more actually can be done unless we get money where we can specifically use for things like the ppp ppe or for hiring those extra people and extra cleaning, all of those extra stuff. Thank you so much. And i just really appreciate your advocacy on the part of independent restaurants. Finally, mr. Palmer, very quickly, do you think Certain Industries moving forward will face unique challenges post covid19 into this recovery phase . You know, any thoughts that you have on specifically what congress can do to continue to help business recover . Absolutely. Theres going to be there are definitive variations, hospitality and industries. Anyone who has to do longterm plans because we dont have any idea what things look like two months from now much less a year from now. If we provide capital as much as we can, Congress Needs to revisit our policy in terms of manufacturing and domestic production. One thing thats clear out of this, our inability to create bpp and other critical infrastructure, the fact that we still cant get lysol disinfectant wipes five months later because we dont have the chemicals or theres a shortage is crazy. Equity capital, Patient Capital and making sure its a hospitable place in the United States. Mr. Palmer. Thank you. Im a Founding Member of the supply chain caucus of the congress and who would of thought that that would be a sexy topic. [laughter] with that thanks for doing that. I yield back. The gentle lady yields back and i will go to maryland if he has any questions. I do and i hope everyone can hear me. Thank you for returning back to me, madam chair. I just have a couple of observations which to me are significant and maybe even poignant. It was my pleasure to serve on this committee for 10 years during my first stint in congress before i decided i would just voluntarily leave and do Something Else in life. One of the interesting things about that is much has changed and yet much remains to the topical areas that we are dealing with, madam chair. And i would again, like i said earlier, this notion of Lasting Solutions is a key phrase because this will be over one day. The question becomes what happens with the Small Businesses of america. And Lasting Solutions are going to require ingenuity and access to capital and access to credit, which was the Major Driving force in hearings like this in 1989 and throughout the 90s, madam chair, when you remember the committee. Its still a driving issue and i think about fdics, which was in congress in 1968 and i think about the other initiatives and i was very interested in hearing the phraseology, we need an sba on steroids, we really do because we always have needed that. But theres some other things that i would think observationally that we might want to consider as we go down the road on this topic in future hearings. One of which is that and by the way, mr. Palmer, i appreciate your commentary and your information. I would slightly disagree with ow on one, you said minority businesses were not applying for structured loan programs out there, whether its fdic or Something Else because they didnt always have the knowledge. I would suggest that many have not applied because they know theyre going to get turned down as they have been turned down repeatedly over and over and over again, so my argument here is that we have to be deliberate in terms of what we do going forward, that we need a deliberate tax policy, a deliberate banking policy. A deliberate sba policy, that weve got to find a way to create small Venture Capital as someone said earlier thats crucial. Thats in the domain of the congress itself and weve got to look at some of the other smaller things like overly burdensome bonding requirements, the Little Things that create and push businesses sometimes to the edge. So i am looking forward, madam chair, actually to this discussion continuing and going on and i appreciate your leadership and the leadership of the Ranking Member on this. Its something that has fast nighted me for a long time and now after having watched this unfold for the last 31, 32 years since i took an oath of office, its perplexing how this issue is not only vexing, but is repeating itself over and over and over again. So, there is a lot of work to do in this area. The notion about making sure that were taking care of urban versus Rural Businesses is important, also. I always say urban and rural, whether were talking minorityowned, womenowned businesses, under your leadership on this commission to kind of cull together and put together a kind of policy that many of our colleagues in the house would appreciate. So, again, madam chair, thank you very, very much for your leadersh leadership, and on the other side of the building right now and yield back the time that i have. Thank you so much. And thank you for your contributions and your history of fighting for fairness and especially civil rights, criminal justice reform, how do we contribute to make an economy that is just for everyone in this country. Do you have any other questions . I do not, madam chair. I think its an interesting hearing. I think the witness is did a great job, all of them, and learned a lot and hopefully on a bipartisan basis well put some of this into action so thank you for holding this. Thank you. Thank you. And let me just say to all the panelists, thank you for your contributions shedding light into what is happening and helping us put together an agenda that really reflects the unprecedented crisis that we are witnessing and you know, people love to say that Small Businesses are the backbone of america, that Small Businesses is the engine that fuels our economy and this is a time theyve shown that they need help. Otherwise a lot of them are going to close their doors forever. And dr. Cook, im going to take an opportunity here in my Closing Remarks to ask you a question and there are two issues that i just want to raise and one was raised by mr. Bishop, frustrated because the idol eidl provides loan applications and rather than coming back to us to ask for an increase in the funding for the eidl they sidecide toda cap at 150,000. Were working on Bipartisan Legislation that will address this issue and dr. Cook, right now, there is like 130 billion in the pipeline regarding the ppp and i would like to see that 50 of that money is carved out for minority businesses and womenowned businesses. One of the issues that we are confronting is that we dont know how well the ppp is working because the data was not provided to us until last friday at midnight, but not only that, by going through the data we are finding a lot of errors. So what how do you assess the possibility of us setting aside 50 of the 130 billion so that missionbased lenders would have an opportunity to make those loans . What impact would that have . I think that would be critical and i think it would be critical for several reasons. They were at the back of the line for many reasons that they were outlining, but because of the historical relationship because of what the congressman was talking about. The systemic issues that have not yet been addressed, but i think, yes, setting aside 50 would be extremely useful, but i think that the other thing that is being missed here, sorry i didnt say it earlier, the microenterprises, the newest businesses are where innovation comes from in america and they are also being left behind. So we could have a permanent thing on Economic Growth if were not attending to those that dont yet have relationships with banks. So i think for minorities, for the smallest businesses, i think we really have to do more and they should be grantbased. There cant be this uncertainty that miss cohen is talking about, because they dont have the capacity to figure all of this out and we shouldnt put that burden on them. And microlenders provide capacity for those businesses so we fought to get them as part of the missionbased lender in the second tranche of money that we passed. Well, let me again thank all of the witnesses for your participation. I look forward to working together as a committee to help our countrys Small Business owners through these unprecedented times. I ask unanimous consent that members have five legislative days to submit statements and materials for the record. Without objection, so ordered. And if theres no further business before the committee, we are adjourned. Be with us later today when pharmaceutical officials testify on covid19 Vaccine Research and development before a House Energy House and commerce subcommittee. You can watch live starting at 10 a. M. Eastern on cspan 3. Online at cspan. Org or listen live with the cspan radio app. Coming up, Maryland Governor larry hogan will talk about his states response to the coronavirus pandemic and his critique of the federal response. Hes speaking to the American Enterprise institute this morning. Live coverage here on cspan2. [inaudible conversations]