Good evening from the tv this is a series of programs of Pulitzer Prize winner and historian David MarinusRoberto Clemente and Vince Lombardi. And then began their 1977 and received the Pulitzer Prize for National Reporting 1983 and has appeared on the tv and has traveled the world we will revisit the trip to kenya also the history in 19 sixties that first in 2002 and then to margin to send night this is a book about the vietnam war and a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize. Here is David Maraniss. A rubber Plantation North of saigon in vietnam. Thirtyfive years ago the 28th infantry regiment were ambushed here 61 were killed many injured. The university of wisconsin madison 35 years ago they tried to keep dow chemical from recruiting on campus. Held a demonstration that turned violent. The new book titled they marched into sunlight the author is David Maraniss. You write in the epilogue is as reflected in the book quick. It means im not trying to make a specific point i believe history is looked at in different ways so in 1967 at that point of time accurately and deeply as i could to strip away those stereotypes that make it so hard to see now. Who is this book for . It starts with the author something youre interested in in my previous book whether about bill clinton or Vince Lombardi i am a product of that generation. I was 18 years old i think everyone in my generation would shape who i am today so first of all for that generation perhaps vietnam vets are back in the states and those to learn more about it and also for the older generation. And not writing for the left or the right. Before we get to this you know these two stories why did you choose to plant these two stories . The essential concept of the book. There is wonderful literature there are some excellent books on the antiwar and of course a lot of great books analyzing with that policy with the best and brightest. And to try to bring these worlds together so i started by saying i was interested in 1867 because when everything was up in the air. That which change the Public Perception everything seems possible i want to capture that. Im not a character in the book until the very end but it and i said what is going on in vietnam that day. I found this incredible battle and thats how the idea started to form. s of october 67 these two days it happens. The 17th and 18th. You spend your time in the area of vietnam. 40 miles north of saigon. In the Infantry Division moving its headquarters, the entire brigade the battalion in the large military base at the same time. Thats where everything starts. The black lines battalion of the first Infantry Division. Its composed of four companies. What does it mean to be a black lion . A long tradition of soldiering going back to world war i and a major battle in world war i. And at the time of this battle the tent had not yet happened . No. And for the commanding general enforces of vietnam to think that could be want to the battle of attrition. He go out and find the enemy and you will win. So we were sending out these battalions and killing them thinking they can win the war that way. And the first regiment it was called. And in vietnam since 1961. Some of the original fighters to come down from the south and at this point were starving. And with that swath the vietnam. They were literally on their way to another city and then there was an attack on the city with the tet offensive and then the secret zone and that the american battalion this is the secret zone you had mentioned. And then it goes back not the dense jungle that in some places there were farms and water buffalo in the typical geography of that part of vietnam. There so many reasons. You can start with a specific americans were terribly outnumbered those walking to the battlefield that day 1200 at least members of the first regiment of the vietnamese fighting against them. For two days they set of the ambush ahead of time men in trees looking out for them and the headquarters for the americans were coming and the commander of the vietnamese and were watching from the moment they left to the base camp. Another one is so ruppercaseletter welch has been described as the hero of the book to be marching straight back to where they were the day before. And was overruled and thats another reason. He was 27 years old. And made an officer and then this tenant then mostly captains. And then another 50 or 60 were wounded in various ways out of 135. Why were there different stories . Not the time when general westmoreland or the Johnson Administration anybody was pushing the war at that point to acknowledge the first Infantry Division would get wiped out and then to win every battle and then to get them to stand and fight and those documents. And the men who fought the battle knew what happened. Because and then to lie about what happened. And then so danny . The quintessential workingclass kid. And so to use them to make that connection. And to sign up as a volunteer for the draft at age 19 in vietnam and was killed in the battle from the south side of milwaukee. They couldnt give him that nickname. You say when he was home to give the sister how to deal with boyfriends and what to do with the father and stepmother. And then his father planted a pine tree by the side of the house. And then to notice they cut the planetree down. Why that level of detail . Thats the way i write. I had several conversations with diane kramer over the course of the year became willing to remember things about the family and danny and by going back again and again you get that level of detail which makes people remember and connect in a human way with all these characters. Johnson was a platoon leader he had a habit and in into the field every day which was not gone would and then on this case and then with the vietcong commander was three knocks on a block of wood. Moving on so why did you choose this was an important personally . That the first protest i had ever seen and as i have said to remember that event and then to be on the edge of the crowd and not that many specific memories with that whole evolution of what i thought about the war. Why with the kids demonstrating that day . And then napalm is the weapon that burns to become the symbol of the war machine. And then to sign you up seniors to go work for the Chemical Company and in 1866 and then a whole wave of demonstrations against dow chemical began. October 67 is have been going on several months and then to obstruct the interviews and thats whats happening. Why would a company like dow go into a campus and one of the parts i am most proud of to see what they were thinking and then in michigan with my nephew dan to research that part of the book and then in their archives. And the president who read my Vince Lombardi book with a fair journalist and into their archives i found all of their letters and documents with the debate going on inside of the company and to be called the merchants of death. And then they said should be stop making napalm. Should be given to these protest . How did the demonstration turned violent . Some of the students those inside the converse building a very narrow hallways almost like a submarine. Most of the people in that room and then they thought they were taking an act of civil disobedience. And then to do with the demonstration before they had never been trained in riot training. When the Chicago Police force and then in any case in the university of wisconsin loss control and they ceded to the police the chancellor who i will talk about more later was a tragic figure in this book. In any case there was so little room it was almost inevitable to be pushing and shoving of the jagged edges of the window very dangerous. And those that were spoiled brats and then on the side of medicine workingclass who had absolutely nothing in common. There was some of that. They have taken off just a few of them. And then to unfold in the ugliest possible way for the cops and the Police Officers. And what is going on afterwards. As the book has come out to use moral equivalent i dont know what moral is in these cases but obviously the enormous differences but a soldier facing a life or death situation in the name i get ahead. And to world of that time. But not in ways of that happened. And what about what was going on in washington . Lbj is the hinge. He was feeling enormous pressure how the antiwar was developing. And that situation with every battle the vietnam and how many battles have taken place and what documents they can retrieve and then with the domestic policy advisers and what protest was taking place. And so on these very days to not run for president again. And then mcnamara, and other members of the world on cancel. And the other thing is and then to say how will we win . And with a list of cast of characters why do you do that . Because there are so many people in this book and i want the reader to feel overwhelmed because as it unfolds you know which characters you will follow to the book and then its been a few chapters. Look at the cast of characters to be refreshed. And then to intimidate people that then you dont see them again. There are some characters in the early chapters who come back like in chapter 27. You started the book when . Started in the year 2000 looking at the Washington Post al gore and the biographical stories. I came up with the concept them and started to do some interviews in 2000. We did not catch up with you tell your only trip to vietnam january 2002. I keep reporting until i wrote the final word. Severely catching up with you and the last part. You had and started writing yet . I started writing the day i got home. In sitting at the National Archives to go through documents which is exciting for me but. So following you going to vietnam why do you take people with you that are important to the story with characters in your book . Thats a good question. As it is unfolding the fortuitous this but not before hand. And then a central character in the book talking over the course in a year and a half that he was ready to go back. And then first going in october and then september 11 happened and then we delayed through january. I knew that would be invaluable. And the commander of the black lives battalion but then was killed in battle. And the oldest of three daughters. About the bae terry allen who was the commanding general of the First Division in world war ii and also another division the timberwolves later he was sort of a soldiers general that wrote because he was more that type and he was funneled into the army for his love and affection of his father and his fathers love and affection for him. He never made it to be a fourstar general. Host what role did she play in the overall writing of the book . I went to el paso where she was living at the time and she helped me find documents of her mother and her father who was also a key character in the book. There was a reporting that called g. A hero which i thought was incredibly understanding on her part. Lets talk about what it was like the last time she saw her father. I was very scared because i was afraid he was going to be killed. He didnt say anything like that he just said i would like you to take care of the girls. When i was with my sister we had both been hiding when he had come to say goodbye. Where were you hiding . Spinet under a big table that my mother had. If i got very small he wouldnty wouldnt be able to find me and wouldnt go. Back to the right thing. How do you trust a 5yearold memory . Guest mos most you would end anof the weaponsand it wouldnta court of law. But she had a very deep memory about that specific event that in that particular moment when she came back on emergency leave hed been in the vietnam already but when there was trouble in the marriage he came back as a journalist you learn to have intuition about people who have an agenda or dont and people who have good memories or dont. It doesnt mean they are better people but they just happen to have better memories and then you find people have specific memories about a very finite things and they might forget Everything Else that happened in an entire year. Host lets take a look today he was the son of a kernel anthekernel and enlisted in the military right out of high school and had a very active career in special forces, many places before they would be in the special forces but the army needed him more than anything because there was constant transfers moved out all the time. It was so much more that he was promoted to have his own company. As the battalions were getting a this about what he felt that he thought he was going to vietnam. I wanted to go to vietnam, my wife supported it. It wasnt surprising at all it was as if my prayers were answered the special forces as i understand it means to liberate the oppressed and i believe that when they sent me to south america i thought i was working directly for the president of the United States to liberate the. I wanted to go to vietnam and simply the answer came back that yes they proved i could go to beget, and of course. Host how did you get to the details we were talking about, was it difficult to get to that little . Guest he describes it in more detail than i do, but it took a while to get his trust. I believe deeply without in any way promising than anything that i might not be able to live up to. After many months he trusted me so much he gave me all the letters he sent back to his wonderful wife from vietnam and those are the energy of a lot of the book because there is so much detail. He was a good writer. His emotions in the months leading up to the battle are very clear and descriptive. All of that was invaluable. I was starting to feel what it was like there. Host we did ask about the first time he met you and what he thought about it. Heres what he told us the first time you were in vietnam. [inaudible] he came right on time and looked like the right kind of person and i could hear jim shelton saying he looked like he could trust him so i sat down and asked him if. I think david was a little offended. He asked for an earlier, i said i will talk with you but i wont you to treat my man apparently. I think fairly and correctly or something. David looked right at me and said i will tell the truth. They would say thats not what i asked you if. He never told me he treated unfairly or made them look good. All he said is they would find the truth. I did ask him right after that. If there was anything different from what i was going to tell him, but hed let me know because for 32 years sometimes its possible none of this happened. So i asked him but i dont ask anymore why was it important to find out the truth in this . Guest here he was the leaving and what he was doing for finding the action but getting his name out alive. He was haunted by that they from 67 until the time i met him. Did something happen that i dont remember, and it was incredibly important for him and it still is. Host towards a lot of people during his time there. I want to show the viewers the level of his anger and we mentioned there is some Strong Language so they know in advance. My anger at the people that allowed us to be here who ordered us to be there is still there that anger is gripping me to do what i did in the army when other people said the army is messed up. Im going to get out. I would say it is beyond anything you can believe and life and death matters and that is why i am going to stay in a. I have terrible anger at the system that allowed that to happen. I couldnt say this is screwed up. On the morning of the 16thand 17, 15, 14, i told my soldiers we are doing our show. Even when i talked to my friend who is alive and well today to wake up and say this is crazy i never said that the politicians are screwed up. I never said my boss is screwed up even on the last day. On the evening of the 16th when i believed myself that what they are planning to do it the wrong thing to do i thought that when i heard the order of the i do believe they probably said Something Like jesus christ. It was clear to a number of people they are talking later about it. Thats up to them to say that i didnt approve of what we were going to do the 17th. I asked to talk to the kernel in order. He was failing to prevent it from happening the night before. And then seeing him say to you that much later the same reaction i get and i think that helps explain. He still thinks he should have talked him out of it, but he was under enormous pressure from the commanding general of the First Edition thought to be timid in pursuing vietcong through the names are pushing general hayden to push a stronger and he was pushing down to the brigade leaders. When clark welch questioned them going after the regimen and the way they were going to a. Host on the other side you write about that there and that when he was he was kind of an endearing figure in the area. Hes one of thhe is one of the i ever met in my life. Its intelligence and a grasp of things i think hes a very conservative man but not into proving everything his way, he has a specific way of understanding people including the vietcong that he fought against. These two young women that were on the streets selling books and other things so head over heels and they took him around and looked after him but did. Host he told you the story of how he felt during an incident prior to 1967, october. We caught on videotape, but how did you describe it in the book . Guest he was the leader of the reconnaissance put forth into setting up a night ambush in an area south which was the base camp because they knew it was a place where they were transporting so they set up this ambush and they described how it unfolded from there. Host after they saw a young vietnamese women as instruction on the tunnel that was the enemy. What a mess. We were on an ambush. We did what we were supposed to do first in the morning and the enemy came down the trail and we ambushed them. We knocked them all down, about six of them. They were pushing bicycles. They didnt shoot back. When i came out on the road to see if we could take a prisoner and make sure they were dead. There was a lit