Delete because they are revealing National Security information. They went to court and cut that over and cia cut to 339 to 168 and at the end of the day 30 publicker put outed publisher put bold space and so much of this can be. That was process inside the intelligences community. He did go through review process. Right, the case that went to the Supreme Court was about a guy named frank who did not thats what its referring to in bolton case. Bolton is risking losing. In 1980 the Supreme Court upheld the seizure of all of royalties. He did not give the book for review. The government admitted it didnt have classified information but what they went after snip on he violated his contract and the Supreme Court without holding oral arguments without even fully briefing took away all of his royalties in the snip case and the irony is and book tv would love this is that years later when researchers got into the justices papers they found that Justice Powell drove that opinion because he was so angry at his former clerks who had all talked about anotherward and Scott Armstrong for the book, number 1, the best seller. Powell was so mad at the guys and he took it out. Is there a publication for review . Yes, it is. Here is what happened the bolton and this is im quoting from the judges opinion that just came out this past saturday, bolton went through 4 months of face to face and online and phone review with the senior person at the te National Security counsel, women named ellen knight, all of the secrecy clearances. Lots of prepublication review experience because she had done it for lots of former nsc people and by april 27th ellen knight had cleared the book. Bolton had made all the changes she had asked for and on the 27th of april, government admits this, she told bolton, your book is clear. It doesnt have classified information and its at that point that the white house brought in a new guy and this is where it gets kind of fiduciariy and this is what john boltons lawyers are arguing in courtment they bring in a guy with no prepublication review experience. Hes a former congressional aide Michael Ellis, he had been working in the white houses Counsel Office and sent over there effectively to secondguess the senior person who cleared the manuscript and he according to his affidavit to the judge found 6 examples of classified information that were still in there that were still in the bolton manuscript and he said, and then they went the government went to the judge and said you cant let this out, judge holds secret hearing, this is the strangest part of the whole prepublication review. The government gets to talk to the judge in private without the other counsel and without the plaintiff and without any other party and make claims, wait a second, this is classified, this is classified and im pretty dubious about the claims. We published on our website thousands of examples of what we call dubious secrets where the government released one version a document with one set of deletions and another version of the documents with another set of deletions, and so its so subjective these calls, my gut tells me you trust the senior person with the most experience who is doing it in regular order and you look with suspicion on this kind of political insertion in the process. Well, mr. Blatant, lets go back to what you originally said, if john bolton submitted his book through the process and ellen knight approved it, wheres the danger in losing your royalties . But the problem is bolton never got the approval from ellen knight in writing. The judge said well, its pretty reasonable for somebody so senior in the white house, so recent experience with the president and intelligence material that the government might want a second review. The Justice Department had to admit in the hearing last week, this is the first time the senior justice lawyer could remember second review. Really unusual circumstances but from that secret hearing that the judge held the judge said he was convinced there was classified that shows you how messed up the publication review process. Well, as an expert in the National Security world and and freedom of information request, have you been surprised at some of the things over the years that have been kept out of a book. Yes, very much, i mentioned earlier the marcete book, you can open the book and look at the layers of censorship because the publisher boldface, and the problem i think and this is where the snip case and maybe the bolton case go to, is that the line between to most highly protected political speech, thats the First Amendment right, constitutional right offense all of us. Its probably the most important dynamic for democratic selfgoverning that we can all express ourselves, the line between that and National Security claim can get pretty blurred. The Supreme Court took effectively frances right to comment on the disaster that happened in south vietnam. Here with john bolton, the intervention of the second layer of review really looks to be pressure on him not to say not to say such embarrassing things about President Trump and so its its a judgment call and the government doesnt have any kind of adjudication message and no tribunal inside the government that can look at what the government claims is secret and what john bolton says shouldnt be secret. Thats the great irony. Until john bolton left office, he in september last last september he was original declassification authority. If last september and hes still in office and he had a 500page manuscript, he could have stamped his name on it and said this is declassified and he has authority to do it, so this is the surreal reality of National Security secrecy that i think hes going to be caught in for some months given this court case. Has this happened in other administrations as well . Very much so. We posted on our website a really eloquent set of complaints from turner and hes trying to get his memoir through the prepublication preview process and hes complaining, wait a second, i gave a speech, public speech, it had been cleared by the Security Offices but now the review board says, no, thats classified, wait its in the public, what are you guys thinking . He added how the review lasted 2 years of publication process. I think thats what john bolton is worried about that the white house keep bringing people in like Michael Ellis forcing another review and hold up the book until it wouldnt be a bestseller anymore. So mr. Blanton, you talk about how publications treat differently, where is the most stringent reviews and where are the least stringent ones . The most stringent ones tend to be in the intelligence community. Nowadays, i say 30 years ago the department of defense, for example, only required about 1 tenth of its employees, soldiers, active duty, et cetera, to sign nondisclosure agreements and now expanded it to cover everybody and from agency to agency you get completely different results from the reviews. I mean, a great case study is actually the Hillary Clinton email. The state department did a review of all her email and said, theres no classified items in here. It was sent over an unclassified system, its not National Security system. The cia got involved and said, wait a second, we are finding some mentions of drone strikes, drones, thats a hugely secret compartment and program. You cant have that in unclassified email. We dont have emails released yet but according to what members of congress mentioned them, they were New York Times stories and aides are sending her New York Times stories and aides and herself thinking they are on front lines, but in cia rules that has to be classified. You see the difference between agencies. I will tell you we have a document on our website where two different versions ten days apart, one of them top third and bottom third book blocked out, 10 days later, only the middle part blocked out. The punch line it was the same reviewer 10 days apart looking at the same document and coming to different opinions. Theres no independent arbitration of the kind of claims. Theres no real secrets. Im not a fan of Julian Assange that think everything should go up on the wall. I think secrets that can get People Killed and we dont have very good systems, judges arent prepared to do it, judges when they get the classified representations from the Government Back in their chambers like judge lambert, what are they going to say . I can decree it open. No, its very hard for a judge to go against the government on this, and so i think weve got a real im hoping the bolton case brings enough attention to this process that the congress maybe the next congress will take a look at setting up a more consistent standard process of review and get rid of some of the anomalies and they will have the same standard for everybody and will move political speech issues back into the public where they belong. Any liability for the publishers . No liability for publishers. The judge cleared that up front. Liability is not on the publisher. All government has right to do now is continuing to after john bolton and maybe try to get that frank snip solution of taking away his royalties. If people are interested in seeing your work, where can they go . Just search National Security archive and once in the website type the phrase dubious secrets and you will see thousands of what im talking about here, different blacked out portions and lesson for all of us as citizen. When the government says its secret, we should ask questions. Tom blanton, thank you for being on book tv. Pleasure, peter. Television for serious readers. Here are programs to watch out for. Sunday we are live with retired navy admiral james, he will answer your questions about career, Global Security and leadership. On afterwords, Washington Post reporter mary jordan discusses life and influence of First Lady Melania Trump and we talk with two republican senators Martha Mcsally of arizona and ernst of iowa. As folks are beginning to arrive, im jessica, one to have owners of greenlight and we are excited to host tonights event with makita stewart, the girl scout troops that began and inspired the world. She will be talking with giselle and daughter karina. Youre in for