It is an honor to be asked questions about him will be doing this for an hour or maybe a little longer and if you have questions want to send in, you will see a q a box at the bottom right of your screen and you can send a question the latter part of this event, alex will answer some of those. To start us off, alex is as im sure many of you know, the Research DirectorGreat Program on extremism at George Washington university which has become a go to resource for many people letting this topic. So why dont we start by asking argue take an interest on this and maybe you can fill us in a little bit on your background explain that. Think you for doing this. We been in touch over the years with shared interest in her article the 2000 the last decade with incredibly, it is my pleasure drinkers. Came across my radar around 2007 i just started as a researcher looking at activism into the uk in particular. As i was getting to know if the individuals and the networks in the uk, this name kept coming up as a reference, a speaker been posted from yemen, for he was. You are in the uk, at least figure in the early 2000s so he was this known figure. Became clear to me by the end of last decade, the sky was perhaps the most influential range of different activists, islamists activists not necessarily jihadist but overall worldview is having this wide appeal and i just started following everything was saying and doing, getting to the the people who were his followers and getting to know where he was being screened and live streamed and must. Who heard him speaking live . Yes, i went community. We got to know him so well that i ended up at the time. We spent time trying to get the authorities to become more aware of the fact that there was this guy who was jihadist, being deemed live streamed into british muslim is even fronting Islamic Forces forces, being involved with that. He was his father became an obsession, i guess. It manifested into doing one on him from 2010 to around 2014. Slowly it became this book which has taken us a criminal amount of time to publish, mostly my fault. This is a guy who spent almost exactly half of his 40 years he lived in the u. S. Half abroad most in yemen, it is interesting call this western jihad, walk us through his unusual biography and tell us what his connections were to the u. S. And the uk. One of the things i mentioned early on the biographical story of iraq he had kind of been done largely by yourself. Very good for him and while there is components in the book, i have to map his own ideological position and place him traditions and as well as understanding his own intellectual history of explaining how and why he was an effective indicator jihadist. That is what the book we can start his career in colorado he rose there at one small local mosque and very soon into his work, it became clear to people have an ability, he was doing things western islamic preachers doing at the time. This explains popularity. On his early work, much most of it that he was famous for, basically historical accounts mostly profit but also his companions. The second most important primary test, less reliable they bring together a lot of sources from history. That is pretty much all of his work translation previous existing history into english and also presenting them to a western audience, making them relevant speaking to a lot of influential preachers america and others, many of them told me, no one had done this before. No one in america in english translating this and making it widely available he got the attention of saudi businessmen. So he became, in the small world of islamic stores in the u. S. And abroad, so the best selling, a best dollar, this is a guy who always grabbed the latest technology for reaching his audience and these were, essentially fee is almost equivalent of bible stories he was elaborating on. Stories from the Old Testament of battles and heroes and he had a knack for storytelling in that way. Yes. Storytelling is a big part of his overall success which i get into later and you have to understand islam in america at the time and how it was conservative. Having at the time the way it would work the conference somewhere on the east coast or west coast new york, new jersey people for great they would disseminate their work, so it usually with audiotape back then. I spoke to people who worked for the company that produced it was old cases, passed around, saudi businessmen who set up, completely revolutionized that whole industry and he not only got on tv, he packaged it, the packaging was really professional, high budget and it was in the place. This marketing push someone saw a potential so from those logistical parts of how islam was presented, is quick to become fast he was, we think this guy is a leader of al qaeda, a leading voice for al qaeda, someone who endorsed silas and someone who is a major terrorist and, that is not who he was but try to place in the world of western islam, american is ideologically at that time. Was he a radical . No. When you put him down as ironical. A quick overview, when rocky emerged out of what the book does is it attracts the spectrum we describe as activism. He prevented the way he dressed, he presented what i argue is in the u. S. , next time identified in the late 70s, early 80s its what you nonpolitical known activist, is concerned with indepth study, no real engagement with politics or the outside world or outside society or any that was found on taking this line from hemphill they were transmitting all of america. It was done in this society, i spoke with a lot of people were members of that group in it and think the request was going to come and study with us we are going to create a closed community we are not going to engage politics or activism. It was at that time . They were being weary of him testing. The fact that it was a society which was essentially a quiet movement, divided into categories is a lot of detail we dont have the time now but in america, became internet 90s organization emerged islamic association, that was the american elation activism, essentially engaging in politics, engaging in discussing going on dont think about fighting the hot. The activists are saying we need to employ methods that involved activism, some type of engagement the outside but still, a lot of studies indepth and intellectual theological, a focused movement. A lot of it emerges for influence attention he offers this way, it is really engaging with politics and Society Information relevant to that. It is also activist but not activism that i wasnt doing a real indepth study, is almost entirely a narrative account very engaging and well translated. Managing to offer this. Described to me the first time but it was like was relying on the sources but he wasnt going indepth on the issues on theology. This made him a unique proposition for these people. This was a big thing you mentioned, in virginia across from washington when he got quite a following, slightly successful young hotshot mom and then along comes 9 11. Some of our audience may remember, may be old enough to remember he got quite a bit of attention from the fbi because two of the hijackers had been his most in san diego and after he moved to washington, a third showed up so they kind of wondered what was . Take this from what happened after 9 11 to his departure in his life overseas. Allowed him to place him a little further so there were different kinds of mosque in america, studying it, you have frost better usually quite close saudi the way you imagine sometimes you have islamist inspired mosque. That is after close a lot of people, a sign unless you have influence your thinking. Components of the theology and presentation is the most activism somewhere in the category of horses analysts hear more about get people know about their position idea is still a mystery i was in a Multicultural School and had a good idea but was by any means anything we knew about. Does this to find the kind this together is fairly critical of al qaeda. A lot of attention and praise as a result but one of the things the book does a couple of sections are provided in his later work in his early work had influences under the direction make going depending how it unfolds, it becomes clear, is a big fan of. This was while he was in the u. S. . Yes, there were things he was saying and using in one of the first big flags was his endorsement the idea the world is being run by islamic law. His using interpretation early on in his career, and there was another example where he was using sources only have found jihadist work, this is where many pal kept saying they have their own reason repeatedly say the 90s an early 2000s, i was told this by a lot of time worried with the way recently justified data, and very quickly it was legitimate couple to prove the early 2000 happened the Jihad Movement emerged, and i think that other options this happened i the world, ideology doesnt change because the methodology. This influence it methodologies are subject the apocrypha as the world changes get them jihadist two of which are in america predecessors. I think i remember, after 9 11, american native english is very good at explaining things the Washington Post did a video you can still find on the web later in his basement explaining, to americans, then, he and the 9 11 attacks, he always tried to balance the just as it is wrong to bomb children and women in afghanistan, it was wrong for al qaeda to attack on 9 11 always doing this balancing act that time so leaves the u. S. In 2002 hundred trucks ainsley happened in the u. S. At that time, agencies attention to islamic u. S. He goes to the uk again, what america time described, it is dark. In the history of the relationship between british. We are gearing up afghanistan, theres a lot of attention on muslims a couple of years away from 2005 we were getting here in iraq. The history of the city against the iraq war, is a lot of activist organizations claim things and great divisions and for group it was a really brazen and in the book, the kind of stuff mainstream, think back then. Things like threatening to stop cooperating with the police certain demands were met, making claims that a legitimate mainstream all this kind of stuff that was quite different from that he left in america. Muslims were on the defensive after 9 11 that they knew they were being watched carefully and it was a rally around the american mainstream muslims to keep them intact but finds much more amenable to radicalism . Yes. Big time open support for defense think the uk invading iraq, will be justified for them to be killed. These were things going on. I was just reading a statement, mainstream soliday organization, at the time, big fans, when it came to england, the problem around this is a statement they put out and ill just read part of it, essentially saying muslims are being demonized, previously, muslims themselves under attack, how the agenda is to attack them. This is an Islamic Organization saying the idea of islam is a political system and idea that should be established as a completely straightforward mainstream idea. The age of isis, that is a shocking thing. Thats the kind of stuff they were saying fan. This is the atmosphere becomes interpreted a couple of one that was very influential ultimately is influenced by them. Gives a speech with is a big event in the uk, it was heavyhanded, arrested and brushed up by police Campaigning Group emerged. Again, i think it was fair enough to an extent complication and the campaign emerges in part of the campaigning i mentioned already . This threat, it involves top property essentially, the present work on islam presenting keep things personalized iraq war, israel palestine, afghanistan. A big part of his job was to make it from accusing an example for things, other recent things attempted by the British Government to extend the amount of time all caps on on territories without charge all of this concerns and he splayed up inside, clouds are forming around muslims in the west i give you all these examples so does that. Let me interrupt to say i want to tell folks who didnt hear me before, click on if you have a question, click on the q and i thought the lower right of your screen right question for us. We will turn to those questions and answer as many as we have time for so what happened to the output at that time in the years when he was in the uk and when he moved to yemen after a year or two in the uk . See continuing, theres this bestseller, box set stories of the prophets and someone what happened to his output but was he finding an audience beyond that . Please speeches, very influential part, he also started translating the first thing he translates something called jihadist, it is a medieval text and it is justification for physical violence in that era. Its not considered an important text, it is not a key thing that needs to be translated. It is important for jihadist but it is not something that has a wider intellectual academic value. Different modern relevance and attended the event and an agent who had gone and attended the event realized he was sitting with the future bombers in back. Thats the kind of people doing that. It was very suspicious. Many of them of the time in the uk, anti jihadist work worried about these meetings and translating morning everyone. Thats the first big sign hes taking another step which is making informed jihadist ideological work not just make sense to us giving them reference relevant to their life but are accessible in english ways that were never before so he translates back in the uk it is all audio video. The book up jihadist was in pretty much soon after that, he goes to yemen. I wonder when he left uk, her recollection is that he had money problems, profession pay for in the uk, he of course had family, extended family father was a prominent member of yemeni society, a former minister and chancellor two different universities is from a family, getting back to that but do you have any sense that he was headed for yemen in part because there was a branch for thinking about that . It is not clear. A friend of his in the uk i spoke to who said there were things he was saying was suspicious there was some space in yemen, he wasnt very clear but couldnt get more than that. That time in prison and it came out, i think is a couple of years before they drink but in the interim, other major things happen and began 2005, yemen, he translates so i was the next step modern jihadist text, very important 11 example himself to translate. This time, an academic exercise to take a look, you need to read and understand whats so important, how it will never e end. It was, repackaging it. Reframing references for thought. Talking about it early on, his adoption of technology throughout it seems an obvious thing but at the time, it was not all that normal for him to use Live Streaming or any form. The original one came out, i think it was an audio on youtube, it was mainstream. We have time for questions here so fast morning epic, he connects with product, the saudi yemeni branch of al qaeda and hines his home is in the province that his family is originally from. He leaves the capital of yemen, moves to the boondocks family at home and connects with al qaeda. He makes this whole journey from denouncing 9 11 pulpit in the u. S. To becoming more and more openly extremist in his talk and the world is changing at the time, the u. S. Invaded afghanistan after 9 11 the u. S. Invades iraq theres plenty of evidence for what hierarchy is talked about and he ends up spokesman for al qaeda, a leader of this sort in the democratic branch, a leader of extremely influential. You say in the analysis your account, you found is influence could be found in at least 66 to 12 people accused of jihadist crimes in the u. S. That is remarkable. To what do you attribute, heres this guy often yemen, what you attribute is enormous influence on european muslims in terms of newly jihadist violence . One of the things in the book, and most western jihadist preachers, it wasnt a first and hes not a must but is most important. We have others in the uk, there are a lot of he started his career as a very mainstream interest additions like other artists most guys jihadist. Everything they could many didnt talk about how to battle. He was able to started talking about jihadist writing jihadist wider project the other guys dismissed mainstream only talk about jihadist, its all they are interested in talking about a lot of other things. Natural part of his used to the honor framework based on his election by people involved collective action is basically protest any collective action and go to terrorism. If you look at how presented their ideas and created meaning, he did so using methods not realizing it, in this movement. He wanted to move beyond al qaeda and the organization there is a Wider Movement it may collapse, it is in the presentation. The book essentially explains the method that has all sorts of movements from actors lumbar response body, admitting movement idea to specific is very effective at doing that. It is presented as a waste of time and fascist movements do this a lot, there is a book i know in the introduction, true believer is for people who themselves have given up on and theyre looking for something, and through the storytelling, predict the i mentioned, he was able to create a shared narrative in a shared history and experiences that people could be a part of, when to do that and have people to share the collective identity, its a first step toward getting them to act on that. Before we turn to questions and im sorry we have to speed along but you do a terrific job of three particular cases of muslims in the west, one in nigeria who are deeply influenced by this guy and lured into jihadist by him. Why dont we talk about these three, maybe we will do them in the order in the depth that they went to in the jihadist movement. Lets start with zachary. Who i think stands for a lot of people. Tell us about zach. The book once it goes over and moves on to trying to get a sense of how exactly he impacted people and when and why, its three chapters, the first is on zach who is a wellknown case for those of you who follow closely in the three case studies on the basis that they represented three different types with activism in the west, that represented the classic example of someone who started online and took on the role of the propaganda, and quite long ago and took it on as their job to create online but then i started feeling for the outbreak of the real world and become an activist and influence heavily in much of the rest in jail and the u. S. The key things about him, the one time you see him is on a blog and yemen, he is one of the commenters on the blog in which case chesters own development from the young curious recent two jihadist and is actually really great example of strategic of what he is trying to do