Tonight at eight eastern on the communicators on cspan2. Standard john cotton one members of the bridge about buying g5 equipment from the Chinese Company while way. The arkansas republican join former House Intelligence Committee chair mike rogers and retired Brigadier GeneralRobert Spaulding who predecease her on the National Security council under the trump administration. They answered questions from the British Defense subcommittee on china for about two hours. Order, order. Welcome to this Defense Select Committee hearing to consider the International Response to the uk government decision to allow while we to continue to operate its 5g network and implications of the gibbous decision for information sharing across the alliance. Also to discuss International Ambitions and the role of 5g technology and within this specifically look at Cyber Attacks and the distal silk road. Our session date is divided into two parts and id like to welcome senator tom cotton joining us for part one and Brigadier General spaulding and mike rogers will join us for part two. Senator, thank you very much indeed for your time today. Your ex mr. Perdue sat in the house of representatives before being elected senator. You are a regular, to use for the first and particularly on the u. S. And china relationship. For transparency, you and i have done each other for many, many years. I think prior to you entering politics so thank you very much indeed for your time today. Can i just say on a wider note we are very conscious that we meet during a challenging time for the u. S. Following the tragic death of george floyd. Our thoughts are very much with those impacted by this tragedy. The u. S. Is not alone in needing to do more to tackle the underlying issues but our thoughts and prayers are very much with those who are directly affected. Could i invite you to say a few words as an opening statement, then well move into questions. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you, mr. Chair and thank you for this kind words about some of the strife on our streets today. Of course we all want justice for george floyd and we are all deeply disturbed by that horrific video that probably all of your scene, that most of our nation sensing and at the same time we have to have an end to the violence, the looting and the writing we see and the streets. But today we are gathered here today to talk about china and specifically the threat that while way poses to our special relationships while way. And to the civilized world. Ive a few remarks at the outset on that front. You want to make clear that i am not here on behalf of the United States government. The views expressed are solely my own although i do believe they are widely shared in our nations capital. I also want to stress im a great admirer of the United Kingdom, a passionate supporter of our special relationships. In recent years ive introduce legislation that halted the planned withdrawal of forces and also help significant delay our joint development of warhead for your submarines. Both those efforts were successful. Its my hope the special relationship remains strong, although i fear china is attempting to drive a hightech wedge between us using huawei. The committee has access to testimony from very capable special about why huawei equivalent is not trust with aniston yougov has been been advised that the threat from huawei can be detained if it is kept away from sensitive facilities and the socalled core of your network. I wont way too deeply in that debate but our own technical experts to screen as well as the experts and allied democracies like australia and japan. These same experts warned that huawei could up china update host of damaging information from details about how our aircrews fly, intrusive personal information about our airmen themselves. Sin there sinners with a commune party has details about American Forces station in your country. Let me give you one hypothetical, one and i could offer. Our fighters in english with precision guided munitions. Those are transported by shipping Companies Operating on Standard Commercial networks. If that Network Includes huawei 5g quebec could be give hackers a a window into our military Logistics Operations including shipping manifests. Hackers could then redirect make it impossible to load these weapons. These are the warnings of american experts. I must take those warnings seriously. Even if all friends in the United Kingdom have come to a slightly different conclusion. But theres also another consideration i must bring to your attention. Today we judge the threat in the western pacific to be more severe than the threats in europe. China is a more grave longterm threat to International Peace and stability that is russia. So in the coming years the United States wednesday increase our defense posture in the pacific. This buildup may require us to ship assets from other commands. The case for heavy laden of air force assets in england rather than say alaska, hawaii, guam or japan was already tested in our debates in washington. Now senior u. S. Officials are realizing our troops will face Operational Security risks in the United Kingdom that they would otherwise have faced in the pacific. And i say all this as a longtime mentor and friend of our special relationship. It would be a mistake for any british moniker to misinterpret this potential realignment of u. S. Forces as a messaging effort. We believe our airmen could be at risk. We have a greater threat and different him astray will have limited number of courses to do with it. These are simply facts that are under consideration in washington right now. However, there is another patrick written conjoin the United States and other powerful free nations britain can join doesnt empower chinese intelligence. Im quitting kurds by report indicating your government intentional efforts to develop alternatives to huawei on the worlds democracies. I would welcome a close cooperation between our nations on these matters. Its no secret which of these futures i prefer that the decision of course is yours to make. Thank you again for inviting me to share my perspective as you make this important decision. Senator, thank you for those words. A lot to unpack a Witch Committee will now do. I want to start at a high level if i may. You mentioned the special relationship a couple of times. Would you agree that the pandemic we are now entering has actually exposed how frail our world order currently is . Perhaps how we can risk averse the west has become but the rise of china in pursuing a very different geopolitical agenda, and that many maybe recalibrating their views on china given what theyve been doing in relation to hong kong and coming up, suppressing the initial outbreak in the first place . And how might this lead us to the United States and britain going back to perhaps the origins of our collaboration after the Second World War and look at the Atlantic Charter . Mr. Chairman, theres no doubt that when it comes to Chinese Communist behavior over the last six months. Going back to december it is clear that beijing had knowledge of how serious this virus was. They suppressed information. He intimated the World Health Organization or at least again as late as midjanuary. They resist the travel restrictions that would have kept the virus largely contained by and in mainland china. They continue to those things in preventing the European Union from offering an honest opinion about chinese disinformation efforts. Just in last week week they have cracked down on hong kong in deep violation in 1984. And the United States, use Public Opinion moving strongly against beijing, desiring to have close cooperation with free nations, with the civilized world on things like industrial sourcing to ensure that china cant keep any of our nations over a barrel whether its things like basic medical equipment and pharmaceuticals or advanced Telecommunications Technology like were discussing today. And that situation as you said simply reiterates how important it is for our nations to cooperate and to help lead that coalition of advanced industrial democracies, combines economically, politically, militarily. We are far greater than china in terms of strength and power and the ability to maintain International Stability and peace. Divided though, china will continue to try to replace the United States as the dominant power and to rewrite the International Rules of order. Thank you. Richard drax. Good afternoon, and nice to meet you. As far as we can virtually. We heard about special relationship. Is the scope for u. S. Uk leadership in the modern world . Thank you. I think theres no doubt about that. I think thats part of what breaks it was about, the United Kingdom being able to chart its own course and not have to reach a consensus with a couple dozen other different nations. And with that greater freedom of action, the United States continues to enjoy i think theres no doubt that u. S. Uk leadership once again would be welcomed. Many nations could accuse our combined Political Economic and military might, look for instance, of what shelley is facing. One of our five eyes partner. Trade retaliation by china simple because they want investigation into the origins of this virus and also what beijing did to cover it up. I think a strong, confident, united u. S. Uk allies will, in fact, be a strong leader for the free democracies of the world. I dont want to is there anything specific that the two countries should do so for his leadership is concerned today . I think just to go back to the topic of this hearing about 5g technology, one of the challenges that will face is 5g technology is still nascent. We dont know where it might be in three years or even for that matter six months if the Technology Changes so quickly. Part of the problem, there are so few providers of 5g equipment. Theres two that are supportive but theres only three Democratic Alternatives, samsung, ericsson and nokia. That is allow them to Keep Technology and standard lockdown. If the United States and United Kingdom were to lead the way to get chinas open develop standards and you could see small and midsize businesses. Our nation and you nation and nations of the world who could compete with those five companies on price and on quality, and you know longer have huawei and zte able to undercut those Democratic Alternatives on price because theyre so heavily subsidized. Thats just one example of how we could lead the world, kind of Cutting Edge Technology and ensure that the International Order remains oriented around democracy and about capitalist economic principles. Thank you. On the issue of International Order and perhaps its strengths and weaknesses, stewart, do you want to take over from here . Thank you. Hello, senator. So weve talked about decisions that we could make us countries in different relationships. Would you say were saying of paralysis of our Current International decisionmaking at the moment . I think there is some indication, yes, that International Organizations in particular are struggling to meet the challenge the china poses. Thats in part because china has worked so effectively to try to undermine and insinuate itself into the essential decisionmaking of places in those organizations. If you look at the World Health Organization, for instance, and china Senior Leaders of their come done to the extent that our president can no longer have the confidence to remain a member or fun to get. Look what happened two or three months ago right as this pandemic get started. China was on the verge of electing a leader, of all things, the World InternationalProperty Organization when china is, in fact, the worlds leading theft of intellectual property. Now thanks to an effort by our government and yours and other free nations were able to run an Effective Campaign to defeat the chinese candidate it goes to show you how assertive effort china has undertaken of these international organization. Even if you look at the eu and the kind of division you have there among nations that of an actively cultivated by china, whether it is through low interest loans, grants and things like the belt and Road Initiative or trade possessions and so forth. I dont think theres much question that china has some influence in reducing effective and united decisionmaking among the free nations of the world, especially of the north atlantic. Something our nations need to address. Thank you, senator. We could say that we are on the back foot on a lot of these or reacting very reactive. How would we amended organizations to be more fit the purpose such as the u. N. Or the World Trade Organization . I think we have to recognize that china is not a country let undemocratic like ours. Thats committing china to the World Trade Organization was mistake or you might call it an experiment that failed, fillea long time ago. Our nation made a mistake by granting china the most favored nation status. We all believe if we did those things come not by we, i dont mean any of us in particular, i mean our forerunners in his offices in washington and london, if we admitted trying to those organizations, if we treated china like an open capital as a democratic economy, china would become more so, capitalists would change china. Unfortunate i think china has change capitalism in many places around the world. We need to reassess whether it is the right thing to do to continue to allow these International Organizations to get such a large role in decisionmaking to what remains a communist, authoritarian government, and a state driven economy. And until we face up to that reality and make those kind of decisions i think china continues in aftermath of world war ii, whether political, diplomatic, economic or military. Thank you. Stuart malcolm mcdonald, he wanted to come in. Yes. Take they, chair. Senator, i could beginning is your time today. Just like the chair id like to echo the sentiment of many in the uk to believe a black american citizens right now [inaudible] you mentioned your support and admire the special relationship. Theres been no shortage by right wing of frank is on the u. S. Side as far as the huawei 5g decision and goals. I would be in agreement but on the issue of American Leadership and the special relationship, some of us feel, myself included that is being undermined by the u. S. President ial specifically the president ial leadership right now, particularly as it withdraws or institution such as the World Health Organizations treaty can such as the open skies treaty. Dont visages leave an opportunity, and attacks of right across the board for authoritarian regimes as u. S. Retreats in this kind of way . No, have to disagree. If anything its opportunity for a free democracy especially those in the northern atlantic to try to help remake world order, to maintain peace and stability just as our forebearers did in aftermath of world war ii. We understand we will have disagreements, with accounts on the open skies treaty or the paris climate accords. Our relationship [talking over each other] well, we can help refound a new organization that is a World Health Organization, not a a wd Politics Organization as w. H. O. Has become. But look you had your disagreements about brexit sop obviously there are intense disagreements to cause a lump division in society for many years and we washed up with great interest. We in our society have people who supported the leave campaign and people who support the remain campaign. Whichever one, we wouldve respected that decision and we would have remained your staunchest ally. Thats what it means have that special relationship come to have those allies that when it comes to disagreements repays them frankly but we dont let them undercut our fundamental, our fundamental longstanding, deep ties that go back to the very way