>> good morning. i call this hearing to order. before i address the topic of today's hearing i want to say a few words about what's happening in communities across our country today. this is a time of great pain and unrestfor our nation . americans are truly outraged by recent killings. anyone who watched the video of the murder of george floyd has to be horrified and heartbroken. the resulting peaceful protests about police abuse against any american citizen are important and necessary our nation needs to listen to the voices of african-americans about police brutality . every american citizen deserves justice under the law. some of the peacefulprotests have been hijacked by violent criminals. the destructing and looting and arson must stop. those who commit these crimes dishonor the memory of george floyd and dishonor the cause for which the peaceful protesters first took to the streets . now in a moment of american's to come together to listen and to heal. the goal of this hearing today is to examine how rebuilding america's infrastructure will help our economy recover from the coronavirus pandemic. we will examine how bipartisan infrastructure legislation passed by this committee will stimulate economic recovery and growth . the coronavirus pandemic has resulted in an economic crisis. as congress considers what can be done to help the economy recover, funding our nation's infrastructure should be at the top of the list. investments in highways and bridges create jobs, reduce cost of goods and services and grows the economy. the standard and poor's study found a $1.3 billion investment ininfrastructure results in 2900 jobs being added to the construction sector alone . in a story published last week in the cowboy state daily the university of wyoming economist rob godby explained infrastructure construction as he said his tried-and-true way of recovering economy that's been impacted by a deep recession. it's clear that strong sensible infrastructure investments create jobs and spur economic recovery. the senate has bipartisan legislation ready to go read this committee has taken steps towards renewing our nation's infrastructure investments. last month we unanimously passed to bipartisan water infrastructure bills , america's water infrastructure active 20/20 and the drinking water infrastructure active 20/20. together these two billswill create jobs and protect communities by rebuilding our aging dams, levees and drinking water systems . there are perfect complement to the primary focus of today's hearing , america's transportation infrastructure act which this committee passed and reported last july. this historic highway bill authorizes $287 billion over five years from the highway trust fund . it will provide record levels of investment to fix our roads and bridges, to create jobs and boost our economy. it will give states increasing funding andthe certainty they need for planning projects . now more than ever american needs this highway infrastructure bill to keep our economy moving ahead . the alternative to passing our bill be to rely on short-term extensions of the current law. this would be a mistake. our committee has repeatedly heard expert testimony that month-to-month extensions make it harder forstates and communities to plan . in the past funding uncertainties from such short-term extensions have led to project delays, cancellations and higher costs. these delays would hurt our economic recovery area with less than fourmonths away from the highway trust fund authorization expiring . this template cannot happen especially during these and then itcaused economic downturns . to make matters worse the highway trust fund is rapidly approaching insolvency. before the pandemic the congressional budget office projected highway trust funds would become insolvent in 2021. now when americans driving less trust fund will likely run out of money sooner. this is why i am pushing for the senate to pass our highway infrastructure legislation. our bill is the right medicine for our roads and economy will help rural communities and cities, it will help all 50 states. this 2014 special report entitled transportation investments and response to economic downturns, the national academies of transportation research board concluded that any future transportation stimulus program should allocate most funds accordingto established formulas . our highway bill does just that, since spending nine out of every $10 directly to state through formula funding . formulas give states the flex ability to address their own transportation needs. what works for coastal cities may not work for communities in the heartland. the formula approach is also the best method for rapidly eating economic recovery through infrastructure investments . america's transportation infrastructure act will also speed up project delivery by cutting red tape and simplifying agency reviews. producing the time it takes to get environmental permits means we can get projects done faster, cheaper, better, smarter. well speeding up project delivery are legislation will also enhance the. the bill targets investments to fix our aging bridges, reduce fatalities, protect pedestrians and minimize vehicle wildlife collisions read ultimately buildings saper longer-lasting roads is one of the best ways to protect communities and keep our economy moving . passing america's transportation infrastructure at together with our two water infrastructure bills is critical for our nation's economic recovery and i look forward to hearing from expert witnesses on this topic and would now like to turn to senator carper for his opening comments . >> thank you mister chairman. thank you for your comments. and the house of representatives i used to serve together form time to time we would hear our colleagues say words that we wanted to be associated with and we would say i would like to be associated with the words of that particular member. and i just want to be associated with your words especially the beginning of your comments today. i want to all our witnesses and i especially want to thank brad fisher from louisville for joining us virtually and doing so at a very difficult time. it's never an easy time to be in a major city but today especially we the mayor of louisville it's especially challenging andour thoughts and prayers are with you and our gratitude is with you for joining us today mayor fisher . the chairman has shared the recent murders of george floyd in minneapolis and i would add breanna taylor in louisville has sparked widespread civil unrest across our country. over the past week literally millions of americans have protested the death of black americans and systemic racial inequities and injustice that still pervades too many aspects of our society. one of those americans was david mack at the, a small business owner in the louisville, some of you may have heard he was shot and killed byauthorities while protesting early monday morning . hit prior to his family david was a pillar in their community and at his popular barbecue stand he would literally serve members of law enforcement for free. we've since learned the police officers involved with the national guard personnel who killed him had not activated their body cameras during the incident. and this institutional failure has only created more feelings of anger, fear, frustration and helplessness throughout the louisville community and throughout our country. i know it will come as a surprise to some but many of our fellow americans are feeling real pain and suffering today and they've been feeling it for a long time. meanwhile, our country is attempting to safely reopen and return to some semblance of normalcy in the midst of a deadly pandemic the likes of which we haven't seen in 100 years area and we are facing the greatest economic downturn in the highest unemployment rates since the great depression. and while most communities are calling for justice through law-abiding peaceful protest, others have experienced violent riots and looting. i don't believe it's hyperbole to say that the soul of our nation is being tested as it hasn't been in a long time . the unspoken question for us today as we gather is what do we do about it and what if anything does all of this have to do with improving our service transportation infrastructure? i'm convinced that every member of this committee understand it is our duty as public servants to serve all of our constituents, even the ones who haven't voted for us and maybe neverwill . right now that means listening to those among us who have often times gone unheard and to try to put ourselves in their shoes . golden rule, put ourselves in their shoes cannot only acknowledge that people of color are experiencing and the racism too many face but to do something about it. here's the good news. we can do something about it. in the midst of all this turmoil lies opportunity . it is our job to find an opportunity to work together to move this country which we love and revere as imperfect as we are forward. that brings us to the subject of today'shearing . infrastructure can be a part, a big part of a greater multifaceted solution that brings equity and opportunity to all communities. but where and how we invest really matters. infrastructure can refer to safe water to drink when we turn on the faucet, it can refer to safely treating the affluence we create before it finds itsway into waterways and groundwater . infrastructure can refer to broadband deployment for farm communities and many urban areas where students have almost impossible to keep up with sport because they lack internet access . today we focus on a critically important part of the nation's infrastructure, our roads, our bridges, and our transit system. i know we don't always think of it this way but there are not only important in moving all kinds of cargo across america, as well as getting the american people the freedom to go where they want and where they need to go . but colleagues, our transportation infrastructure done right can also help to connect and uplift communities by expanding access to opportunities such as schools, and better paying jobs that may not have been accessible to those who have always found themselves living on the wrong side of the track. that's why we need to ensure that infrastructure investments we make and the roads highways and bridges we build help us create a more nurturing environment for job creation and job preservation . for all of our communities. in delaware for example, construction of the soon to be completed christina river bridge just south of our amtrak station is helping to spur the redevelopment of south wilmington. that's part of our city that's prone to flooding when rainstorms like the one we had last nightafter . fortunately innovative measures are underway not just to help address the flooding but also to improve connectivity for residents. this new bridge with pedestrian and bicycle lanes will expand access to new educational opportunities and two jobs. thousands of jobs. and while the bridge will facilitate and alleviate traffic in the area it will also help to grow the customer base for small businesses along our burgeoning christina riverfront. that's just one example of the kind of win win investments we can and should be making in more of our infrastructure. those with environmental, community and economic benefits. so as we discussed here in congress today, the ways, the many ways our country can begin to recover from this pandemic and how we can help our communities in need is it's ever more important and timely that we talk about investing in our nation's infrastructure. service transportation reauthorization bill that will unanimously approve out of this committee in july, last july, america's transportation infrastructure act is a good start for addressing those 2 challenges. for example the chairman said our bill would increase highway funding by some 17 percent over baseline in the first year which would help stimulate our economy. at the same time, our bill would help address the climate crisis by investing $10 billion in low emission and resilient transportation projects over the next five years area just as an aside i was talking with our colleagues john kennedy from louisiana, cindy smith from mississippi and they tell me something like 20 proteins are now being forecast to make it to thegulf of mexico this summer, it's unbelievable . so making investments real requires dollars. for years i've been talking with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle about to direct funding infrastructure and the urgent need to address the highway trust fund shortfall. in two short months that conversation will become even more urgent and this pandemic is has greatly affected as our chairman has said the nation's infrastructure and how we maintain funding for it. meanwhile the public health safety measures demanded by this pandemic have reduced the travel and our infrastructure is paid for largely as we know through user fees including tolls, taxes, vehicle excise taxes, registration fees and thelike , all these sources have declined and in some cases quite dramatically. out-of-state cities counties and nations are trying right now to balance their budgets by deciding between furloughs , service cuts and canceling contracts. we elected them to reauthorize our service transportation programs and funding in sustainable and predictable ways read all that said, while investing infrastructure can insist with long-term economic recovery is not sufficient on its own . this economic downturn is almost without much precedent and the coronavirus is likely to be with us for some time to come. we must rise to meet unique challenges and the scale of the crisis ridden fortunately in recent days we've had conversations with dozens of colleagues on both side of the aisle, democrat and republican and there appears to be an emerging partisan agreement not to reward fiscal mismanagement at the state and local level, not to bail out unfunded pension plan but do our part to help address the graven unparalleled impact on state and local budgets, school districts and rural hospitals read we can provide some of the assistance needed by continuing to invest strategically and dependably in the transportation infrastructure of our communities. if we do, i'm confident we will find america off the roads and back on the road to an economic recovery in the future that is stronger, more sustainable and more equitable for all of us. i don't know a lot of latin, i know a little bit. two of my favorite words, carpe diem, seize the day. that's good works today and there's another one, we're reminded of every time we vote in the senate chamber and its e pluribus unum. from many, we are one. thank you senator carver, we appreciate your comments and your leadership and the bipartisan nature of this bill and in a few seconds we will hear from our witnesses and i wanted to make sure the members knew to get a better sense of the order in which we are going to speak and ask questions we will try to go strictly by seniority since so many members are joining us remotely and it will be easier to keep a record that way. today we are joined by three individuals, first mister stephen magoo who is the chairman of the american road and transportation bill builders association, doug policy and who is the president of the american action forum and the honorable greg fisher running us remotely, mayor of louisville kentucky and the incoming president of the us conference of mayors read that i want to remind the witnesses your full written testimony will be made part of the official hearing record so please keep your statements to five minutes we will have time questions, look forward to hearing the testimony , mister mcgill we would like to start with you thank you, chairman barrasso, senator carver and others, thank you for holding this hearing about the role the infrastructure investment can should play in the economic recovery. i'm 20 joined the german even you president of hcs s, the national company that provides software solutions to improve construction companies business operations . let me begin by emphasizing 2 points. first shovel ready projects are not a solution to the nation's current economic challenges while transportation infrastructure improvements have positive job and salary impacts, the real value comes from putting in long-term assets and increase the efficiency and productivity of the economy. according to thefederal highway administration , goods movements over the nations highway account for 73 percent of the value of domestic freight industries like wholesale and retail trade and manufacturing are two of the largest users of transportation services in the economy and utilize freight shipments for 58 to 65 percent of their needs. federal highway investment is a major contributor of your states infrastructure networks but it is effectively a silent partner. we developed a way to correct that shortcoming in 2018 alone states utilize nearly $31 billion of federal highway funds to begin construction of activity on over 24,000 highway improvement projects with a total value of $66.7 billion. thanks to the new interactive highway dashboard, policymakers and the public alike and see how federal highway resources were deployed by each state in a given year getting all the way back to 1950 area we've compiled each state's top 10 federal aid projects, the total number of projects and type of improvements advance that year. the dashboard uses data from the federal highway administration to shift the conversation about federal investment from apportionment tables and obligation charts to outcomes and benefits . after chairman, the federal highway program is widely regarded as one of the most meaningful and popular of all federal discretionary spending activities. now we can articulate why. as an example wyoming in 2018 used $309 million in federal highway funds advanced 262 projects with a total value of $370million . the largest single recipient of these funds was a $29 resurfacing project in sweetwater county . on the federal aid projects while we move forward that year 66 percent were for reconstruction and repair work . this information not only demonstrates the value each state receives from highway investment but also highlights the potential numerous benefits from the five-year reauthorization proposal this committee approved last july. america's transportation infrastructure at an increased highway investment 27 percent over the next five years. your proposal includes commonsense policy reforms that will expedite the delivery of needed infrastructure improvements and maximize the impact of federal resources. more importantly the bills investment growth stands in stark contrast to the purchasing power over the last 15 years. we've given each of you a snapshot of how your states benefit from highway investment in 2018 . and imagine what can be accomplished with the resources you have proposed. mister chairman the recent forecast from the congressional budget office that could take a decade for the us economy to recover from the pandemic is sobering. this outlook is also disturbing in the context of the nation's infrastructure deficit . state and local highway spending needed eight years until 2015 to recover from the three great recession levels how gdp recovery occurred in three years lagan highway and bridge improvements activity could illustrate the challenging road ahead our infrastructure network absence collective action. such is the enactment of the transportationinfrastructure act. your proposal is both a robust reauthorization and a foundational opportunity for economic recovery and growth . the transportation construction industry is not here asking for federal relief . instead we seek to be part of the solution to spur the meaningful economic recovery this nation so desperately needs. we urge the other senate committees with respective jurisdiction over their portions of the state transportation programs to act quickly in order to facilitate final passage of america's transportation infrastructure act . thank you for convening today's hearing and i look forward to your questions thanks for your helpful testimony and i liked it turn to mister bell causing with a minor correction to the ranking never this is a downturn that isunprecedented in modern history . in the past two months we have seen a record fall in consumer confidence, we see a record decline in retail sales, we saw the weekend with 6 million americans file claims for unemployment insurance, contains larger than any previous week and history and in april we saw 20 million americans lose their jobs. again, 10 times larger than any single one month job loss the previous one being that themobilization from world war ii . we saw the unemployment rate 10 percentage points, 10 times larger than any previous one month increase in unemployment and the congressional budget office forecast during the second quarter of 2020, thesize of the us economy will shrink by 11 percent . in the worst year of the great depression 1932 the economy strong by 12 percent read going to experience a comparable decline the spring so this is an unprecedented both in its source and its depth and speed economic downturn in the united states and properly, a lot of policy response has been focused on stating staving off further decline and reversing it. the federal reserve has moved aggressively to provide liquidity additional lending facilities for the private sector. congress has moved with remarkable speed and i think a tremendous scale to address this crisis with families first and cares and the paycheck protectionincrease efforts . you are to be complemented and congratulated for those efforts. i think they were what the doctor ordered but they are not everything that we're going to need. there's a part of this recovery that mister ingold pointed out is quite important. the congressional budget office points to a very slow return to the levels of economic activity that we had in january of this year and in their projection unemployment remains quite elevated, over 80 percent at the end of 2021 so there's a place in the response to this pandemic for durable, long-term investments that can address that challenge past 2020, past 2021 and infrastructure is exactly right for that. so this will that the committee passed last july is ideal in three ways. first of all it is clearly better than a failure to reauthorize or a choppy month-to-month funding approach which would be a headwind to a recovery that's alreadygoing to be difficult enough . second, it addresses the supply side of the economy, the capacity to deliver goods and services through the supply chain quickly and efficiently. i think it's just realism to expect that the virus will be around for a while. we will continue to face supply disruptions whether they be regional lockdowns or the ongoing need to reconfigure our economy to work in the presence of the virus. this is going to physically change a lot of workplaces. there will have to be ppe, there will have to be testing and over a whole variety of reorganizations that will cost money, goods and services more expensive and inhibit the delivery of those in the economy read to the extent we can have policies on the supply side and provide cost reduction and efficiencies that allow the economy to operate more effectively in the presence of those necessary adjustments to the virus that will have durable and very lasting impacts and i think those are an important part of thinking about policy going forward. and these are the kinds of investments that i think will be done well. there is a sad history of taking what would be an otherwise sensible transportation or infrastructure project and trying to frontload it, call for stimulus and in the end undercut the basic objectives of the programs. that's not going on here. you're using programs that have been effective or well understood and the money will be redistributed the appropriate pace and i applaud you working on the red tape to have the projects happen faster but they will come online at the time the economy needs it and that's something we need to also have in addition to the other dramatic efforts so thank you for the chance to be here and i look forward to the chance to answer your questions thank you for being with us today and also joining us remotely is mayor greg fischer from louisville kentucky, incoming president of the us conference of mayors and we appreciate you doingthis. we know you committed to be here prior to the tragedy that has affected the country . i know you have lots going on and we're looking forward to hearing from you now thank you chairman barrasso and ranking member carper, no doubt it is busy times in american cities right now and i appreciate the opportunity to participate in this hearing remotely so thank you for the flexibility. on greg fisher, mayor of louisville and vice president of the conference of mayors as reported and i commend you all for holding this timely examination of how infrastructure investment can get our country back on the road to recovery.before i talk about that topic today though i'd like to acknowledge the crisis in louisville and cities across our country and as the covid-19 pandemic which we thought was a big enough challenge and now we have a challenge in our streets of america, people protesting so many things but first and foremost the effects of systemic racism. my community is mourning the death of two residents who died in interactions with law enforcement, breonna taylor and we join americans in mourning the death of george floyd and ahmaud arbery. systemic racism hinders our progress as a nation and you have to learn to work together with all levels of the two address our efforts in american communities and implement real policy reforms to ensure justice, opportunity and outcomes for every american regardless of their skin color. infrastructure plays a big role in addressing some of those challenges locally. with your support mayors can promote equitable economic growth for infrastructure investment. so let's talk about the impact of the coronavirus on cities area at the conference of mayors has been doing everything we can to support our communities throughout the pandemic area we struggle to understand how and when we will fully recover from this economic challenge but i want to thank you and your colleagues for passingthe cares act and taking other actions to help us at the local level . despite the significant actions unfortunately more needs to be done including providing fiscal relief for cities, counties and state governments. more relief that can be used more broadly to support the fall off in our general revenues. congress must provide flexibility for cities like louisville to use our allocations for the coronavirus relief fund to address our revenue losses. local governments need additional funding to support our ongoing response actions, september 30, 2020. we're working to finalize budget recommendations for the new fiscal year and that begins for most cities july 1 when we need action resolution for congress as soon as wecan get it . the national recovery must focus on metro areas. our metro regions are the regions of the us growth accounting for 91 percent of gross domestic product and wages. unemployment rates were higher in april in all 389 metropolitan areas according to data released by the os yesterday. another 1.9 americans filed unemployment claims last week . the national unemployment rate may exceed 20 percent. our economic output is not yet back on track. obviously our nation will be in trouble. as a logistics hub global can attest that infrastructure investment creates jobs. ups employs more than 20,000 old-timelocal workers here in louisville . infrastructure, supporting the us and hundreds of other businesses across multiple industries. and we ask that you look at ways to increase your funding for local jurisdictions read cities will not be able to leave as we previously have been growing our share of revenue in infrastructure including highways, to support the movement of goods. mayors must have more say to ensure that federal investment fulfills our community needs and my in my full testimony i talk about our reimagining night street project read the complete streets redesign of the corridor will help our city heal the physical, racial and social divides between west louisville and a lower income area of the city and our downtown neighborhoods to the east. i requested a federal grant would help economic activity in the very places that need it most like our opportunity zones to improve quality of life, safety outcomes for all facility usage. the plan includes dedicated transit lanes for our bus rapidtransit system , our partners at the transit authority to provide transit service 40,000 riders daily, 80 percent of those trips are employees. transit is important to our economic workforcedevelopment . our residents and social workers access to jobs, education, commerce, healthcare services and clean air no matter what thezip code they are in . i would like to convey our support for the committee's efforts to address resiliency with carbon emissions and fund alternative you'll structure. i appreciate the sub allocation of funds to local areas to support our missions reduction strategies. local government needs your help to harden our infrastructure systems to withstand natural disasters and extreme weather events like the we experienced locally from the ohio river. cities, counties and towns only manage about every four out of every five miles of highways and streets managed again by cities, counties and towns we would welcome commitments to support our needs in this area. enclosing mister chairman, ranking member and committee members, we support your efforts to advance legislation to renew the nations surface transportation law, infrastructure investment to facilitate the job growth, economic recovery we desperately need and encourage you to direct federal resources to our nations metro areas. on behalf of the conference of mayors i want to express our appreciation for the opportunity to join you this morning and share our views . i will be pleased to answer any questions thank you mayor fisher for taking the time to be with us and i know you'll have a number of questions from the mayors, we appreciate all your comments and i'll start with five-minute rounds of questions and i want to start with esther mccue if i could. in your written testimony. this committee or developing the american transportation infrastructure acts with unanimous bipartisan support the house democrats have just released a bill that was purely partisan. did not involve the republicans at all in the efforts and i just want to ask how important it is that surface transportation legislation advances in a bipartisan fashion as our committee has done. transportation is one of the few areas that consistently receives strong support from both sides of the eye. surface transportation bills in the past have historically when you add the votes i have been bipartisan in nature. the house, senate and white house have all expressed interest to move in infrastructure bill forward this year we have less than 120 days. we need an outcome so we need movement or it is going to take true bipartisan support in both the senate and the house to move this forward. class and asking mister hall taken talk about the tens of millions of people who have lost their jobs due to the coronavirus . how would providing stable long-term funding or highway infrastructure projects (on a , help create jobs and are all types of infrastructure projects equal when it comes to the long-term economic recoveryor is highway spending particularly effective ? >> imagine that it's three months ago when we are essentially at full employment with record unemployment rates and wages rising across the spectrum . in those circumstances, a well-designed surface transportation infrastructure program can continue to raise the productivity of businesses, can continue to increase the efficiencies and allow cross productions for thosebusinesses. that shows up as a higher state of living for america's workers in those circumstances . i think those benefits last for a long time and our reason to happy programs in place continuously read in these circumstances, there is the additional benefit of providing some opportunities for work where others have severe there is little question that even if we are quite successful at returning the 18 million individuals who were identified as temporarily unemployed in april, i suppose we miraculously got them back to work, were going to have to find additional employment opportunities for many people who used to be in hospitality and leisure and used to work in some of the theaters and casinos and cruise lines that are going to be finished in scope and size over the next couple of years so there are no opportunities for employment, benefits the economy and the one i want to emphasize in these circumstances is the impact on offsetting what is going to be a more costly way of running america's businesses . to the extent we can do it's a huge help. i am cognizant of my experience after the terrorist attacks in september 11, 2001. we realized we had a threat to the american public and had to address that threat we also had to operate the economy in the presence of that threat and we didn't fully appreciate that the cost of us standing up tsa, the cost of inspecting every container that came in, the cost of armoring every headquarter against invasions was going to take productive capital away from other tasks and if you think back to that period, we tried conventional stimulus multiple times, 2003, 2005, 2008 and it had no great effect because we were addressing the problem but what i like most about this hearing and this bipartisan bill is it is targeted on what will be a problem and i think that's a big change from what we did back then class you mentioned in your written testimony infrastructure is in dire need of repair. he urged pirates to make investments in infrastructure to her meaningful economic growth though i want to talk about the difference between the amount of money we've put into state highways and bridges compared to the money we put into transit in terms of what we need to do because the us department of transportation estimates the investment backlog for highways and bridges is about eight times higher than it is for transit in terms of the backlog rightnow . the last two major highway authorizations senator inhofe was so involved in the last one, in all of them has provided 80 percent of funds authorized from the highway trust fund going towards highways and bridges. so do you support maintaining this traditional highways transit split in our next authorization, about 80 percent i was bridges, 20 percent transit? >> we support maintaining the traditional split we've seen between highway and transit spending. the solution is to increase the highway and transit and not to get one is a bigger priority than the other you talk about my home state of wyoming and highway funds, the number of hundreds of construction projects significant sensible investment in highway and bridge infrastructure like we'vejust described . benefits states because every state has programs to this effect how important to the construction industry is stable long-term funding for surface transportation infrastructure projects mark. >> it boils down to certainty. like any business, the difference between a short-term or long-term bill is the same for our businesses. if you look out and you don't know where your funding is coming from next year, you make business decisions based on that. you make business decisions whether that's to purchase software, to buy equipment, expand your facilities. the same thing goes withstate dot's. have no certainty of the funds . and in short-term planning really leads to short-term decisions. the whole key for successful economic growth is a multi-yearbook bill that gives the states, gives the contractors the ability to plan and know what to expect. >> ,senator parker. >> the chairman i would observe the responses to this first question you fast, this is an exceptional panel and we are delighted seriously, and we are blessed with a lot of great witnesses today. i think these witnesses are just punching well above their weight and we're glad that you made time for us. i'm going to start with a question i had for greg fisher. he believes the major city will soon be thenation's mayor , not far from my sister and her family live in winchester kentucky and not far from where my mother lived the last three years of her life and was just, have received the best care in the world so that's special warm spot in my heart for kentucky and the people of kentucky. i would ask first question of mayor fisher and that is as we think about making federal investments in our communities that can assist with economic recovery and bring equity and equality, how can we ensure that federal investments provide access and opportunity to all individuals, no matter what neighborhood they live in or no matterwhat their zip code is . can you give us some thoughts on that please. >> thank you, ranking member. i think this is a tremendous opportunity to show the power of the citizens money at work as we dedicate an increase allocations responsible for the minority business participation in these contracts . a lot of the infrastructure development in our city will take place in and around communities of need and many of them are opportunity zones as well and i would like to echo the prior comments on the consistency that we could have this around funding your after year. it would allow the creation of more minority owned businesses as well. the amendment type of certainty that they could move forward, they could employ local workforce as well. these are good jobs and infrastructure and we have ample opportunity for work in our city. we have $300 million of maintenance is required just based on our sidewalks and roads alone while our local governments become increasingly strapped for other needs so there's no question that there could be an equity overlay on this red our city government uses the racial equity lens with all of our investment systemize what we do and it would be a tremendous opportunity to lift up communities in need. >> thank you for that response. sometimes we focus too much here on capitol hill on what where we disagree. i'd like to focus on where we agree. and one of the biggest issues that several of you have commented on is how do we pay for this stuff but mark how do we pay for our roads, highways and transit systems and here's a couple of great areas i think democrats and republicans folks on this committee led by our chairman agree. we believe that things that they're worth having is worth paying for, not just putting on a credit card and continue to add to our debt as if it does not matter. we agree that those who use our roads, highways and bridges and transit centers have an obligation to help pay for them. we agree that there's no silver bullet when it comes to paying for transportation infrastructure but there are a lot of silver bbs and some are better than others and we agree that the source of funding must be predictable and must be sustainable. it cannot be stop and go and the last thing that folks need when they're building roads and highways and bridges is not whether or not the money is going to be there next week or the next year you and with that in mind, let me just ask of each of you and we will stop, it's mister mcgough? has anyone ever mispronounced her name? today? my question of you mister mcgough, what advice would you have, what advice would you have if you ask my colleagues here and the dais about theimportance of paying for infrastructure , how to convince maybe some advice and convincing reluctant members from around the country on the need to pay for that transportation infrastructure and how to structure some existing fees and new fees in order to avoid both anegative impact on our economy and to be sustainable . even after we transition away from motor fuels. over the next decade. >> thank you senator. we have long supported a fuel tax is the most effective transfer of an equitable way to pay for service transportation infrastructure improvements . as you mentioned, senator, there is no silver bullet to a complex problem like we've always been steadfast in supporting any and all highway users the proposals since highway trust fund revenue crisis began 12 years ago. i would tell you it is going to take a unique combination of a number of things and we agree wholeheartedly users of the system should be paid and for anything that's worthwhile will cost us dollars to do that. >> don't. >> so i think looking forward and i've written on this and we had this conversation that motor fuel taxes are not the appropriate base anymore and that it makes sense to move towards something like a vehicle miles steps with adjustments for late axles which caused the damage to roads and bridges and that's the endpoint. you want to end up there at some point in the future, when feasible and then working back, you could legislate that now and implemented over time. so that the highway trust fund becomes sustainable but i don't think you should raise taxes in 2020 and i'm not even sure about 2021. this is not the right time to sort of provide additional headwinds to the economy. so have a conversation. it financed in a durable and sustainable way and i think that the empty is the future i don't think you should do that this year . >> i like to say the vehicle miles traveled, we need a bridge the future, a couple bridges in the future so you for that. mayor, your thoughts please and then my time is expired. >> thank you so much, you ask me where the funding comes from but it's got to come from somewhere and part of this is part of a culture shift that we need to have in our country where is the sense of the infrastructure so we had the ohio bridges project it's a 2 and a half million dollar project that we get about five years ago with holes so user fees. but in america, we want everything but we don't want to pay for anything and we all know it doesn't work that way so we have to get back to a time when we look at our city infrastructure and whatever we invest in, that say that makes me feel good like public health properly funded as well so as we talk about the money, let's talk about the collective to about being proud as an american in louisville and the things that we funded together. we also have to look to the future obviously with more and more electric vehicles so this was noted, how do we figure out how to tax vehicle per mile travel. occupational tax directed to our transit authorities as well and a gas tax is part of that i believe is a portfolio of diversification with an umbrella of pride around it, how about that. and americans we invest in things that help us out, that something is required for a strong america and i'm happy to be an investor. >> i like that umbrella of pride, thank you very much. >> senator in half. >> i'm going to get into another subject your and i'd like to address this to mister mcgough. first of all the fcc has just done the legato order which would have allowed if phase legato to purchase it spectrum around gps. this would have a devastating effect on millage. i care the senate armed services community and that's where my concern was. in fact there is one general said this would oppose the most significant noncombat threat to our national security in my lifetime. that's a big deal. so we had a great hearing, people understood it, was well articulated but it also affects everybody else. all of americans. and we had i think, we were allowed 30 days to file a motion for a reconsideration for a petition for a reconsideration of this thing. and there are petitions representing some 22 organizations. one of those was archived. and you file this petition with the american farm bureau and the association of equipment manufacturers. what i like to ask you is anything to the impact of this order that it would have on your report members and the construction industry. >> thank you senator. the transportation construction industry is using more new innovative equipment on job sites from past survey to utilities, grading control, enhanced material applications of this uses gps. the legato proposal network shows significant interference with gps and other signals likely and an interference would be disruptive on job sites and contribute to and jeopardize the safety and will most surely cause project delays. currently there's over 900 million gpsreceivers nationwide, 99 percent of those are operated by the private sector , none of which will be compensated under this order. even more concerning if you look at the job site level, when you do have interference , the sec order to direct you to a one 800 number. it seems illogical that you would have construction workers not realizing where their interference is coming from and that that would not cause project delays as far as getting to a timeof resolution . we would urge the fcc to revisit their orders and impacts that the legato order would have on every day users that depend on a reliable gps system area. >> i appreciate that and during this hearing i did take the time to look up and find that there is, that legato is actually spent well in excess of $1 million on lobbyists so they are busy out there working and someone is concerned about the amount of money involved in this thing.the second thing that i want to to mister mcgough as the chairman said, i chair this committee forquite a while . >> .. senator inhofe as repairs and upgrades are made to the highway and bridge networks drivers businesses shippers will all save time and money. these are as a result of decreased congestion less money spent on vehicle repair and safer roads. the study commissioned by the u.s. treasury department found for every dollar in capitol spent on select projects the net economic effect range from $3.50 to $7. the trucking sector estimates $74 million of added cost of goods due to congestion on our roads. we are spending the money without the economic than a fit. we just don't see it to cousins. and the cost of our businesses. >> i once also i say it think might good friend the chairman and the vice chairman that this is an area where it is popular. it's about the only one they can find is popular and i remember several good friends without mentioning name but a few years ago were burning for governor were talking about spending and all that big day made the mistake of talking about infrastructure and immediately they were jumped on so there is a very strong positive effect that we happen we talk about how we are going to be doing funding and i appreciate one of the statements he made about this is not the time but the fact that eventually it's going to have to be done. i appreciate it very much and this committee. i get more comments on this bill and i say to the chairman than anything else. >> thank you senator inhofe. senator cardin. >> thank you mr. chairman and let me thank our witnesses. to follow up on senator inhofe we are in total agreement. infrastructure does bring us together and it's an important area from making advancements. our committee has worked in a bipartisan manner and now that we are rack ignites over the last several decades as being in decline in an economy that's been devoted to infrastructure spending we need to do smart investments coming out of covid-19 and i particularly appreciate the comments by doug with regards to how we pay for it now. i am for paying for it and coming out of this covid-19 we have to look at how we can create jobs. we have put trillions of dollars into the economy and we know the impact covid-19 has had on our economy. now we need to look at how we can create the jobs that have been lost from covid-19 and investing in infrastructure gives us that opportunity to create jobs but at the end of the day as senator inhofe pointed out we also have and economy that is performed better for the people in our community and is well gives us greater economic competitiveness. at the end of the day we end up with a product that helps our constituents and our economy that i'm a strong proponent of looking at in infrastructure package and our committee has passed the bill on this, in order to come out of covid-19 with a stronger economy. my question to mayor fisher as we look at putting together an infrastructure package every community is different. i was proud to work on a bipartisan way to create transportation alternative programs which gives additional funding at the discretion of the local governments and what's best in their committee. in my state of maryland we need to have a balanced approach on infrastructure preacher into this critically important to the people in the baltimore region so we want to invest in transit. we want to invest in neighborhood improvements projects. we don't want to see one-size-fits-all at the national level. as the mayor can you tell me how important is it for you to have discretion for the programs handled in your community and have the ability to be a partner in developing those types of transportation programs? >> i appreciate the question senator. obviously the best government is a government that is closest to the people. we have long-term plans to create a vision a decade else and an term plans and what it is we are trying to do today. to give you some perspective on the challenge louisville represents her a president of our state's gdp could we get 3% of the funding for roads so there's this huge disconnect in terms of where the economy is being created and where the money is flowing toward that. the more that we can tie that in to our local transportation planning and tie that into our highway systems where people sit outside and enjoy the great restaurants in louisville, that type of systemic approach to transportation and sidewalks on top of that. it is really important to create a great city where traffic is moving as seamlessly as possible reducing congestion and making sure air quality as good as we needed to be. >> i thank you for that i'm working with senator inhofe annella senator capito on infrastructure we recognize our states are different if we tried to give flexibility in all parts of our country and it's one of the reasons we have their committee. i hope as we move forward yes it's important to invest in infrastructure. we may not pay for completely but this is a good investment like we have done in the cares act to let us do at the smart way pet give flexibility to the states and local governments to do what is best for their community. thank you for your testimony and thank all of our witnesses for their testimony that i would underscore with senator inhofe said we need to work bipartisan together on a strong of a structure package. >> mr. chairman could you yield to me for just a second? >> unfortunately everybody says we need to invest in transportation and infrastructure. this is the time to do it and we have used in recent weeks and months the term turn on the economy light switch versus the dimmer switch. with regard to funding out think it's the right time to raise taxes but we should start turning up the dimmer switch in 2021 in a variety of ways. it's always around the corner on the horizon. next year i think we might deal with turn on the dimmer switch and the revenues that are needed and send a signal that we are going to walk away from this. thank you. >> senator capito. >> thank you mr. chairman thank you all for being here today and i'm very excited about infrastructure package. senator cardin and i put this through the committee and built materials into this to hopefully build a longer life. it want to ask the mayor a question quickly. on the flexibility that you are asking for because this is an issue that senator sold and has a bill that i'm on asking for the dollars that have gone to smaller states to have the governor used the flexibility for city, county and state tax revenue. would our state tax has a gas tax and i would include that in the package of tax revenues that would be important to the governor. do you have a thought on this in terms of what you see in kentucky or louisville? >> the gas tax has been a declining source of revenue for the state for quite some time. as a result of that we have less every year as well but i would definitely have this open market of all the funds available so we could look at it in the system and allocate those to the places where we have the most vehicles and miles been traveled with the least economic impact. we have to take care of our rural weathers and sisters as well. the dynamism of the economy is certainly in louisville and the rest of the country as well. we are not balkanizing to these different funds. >> our state is 27% are gas tax in the credit of our state we have a state referendum two years ago that raised her gas tax and actually said this is important to us as citizens to have potholes filled in new construction and all the things in a rural state are sometimes very difficult to maintain. i wanted to ask you mr. mcgough my state we have 21% of our bridges are deficient and when we were writing this highway bill that we have all talked about today one of the set-asides that i worked it wanted to make sure we were able to do include is a $6 billion set aside that dedicates bridge repair. we have seen some large bridges across the country collapse to calamitous ending but we also know in our areas we have riches that can be used for school buses and can't be used for heavier trucks in there a danger in the community. my state is why these preview highlight that in some of your comments but when we asked them to report on it they said we are making better progress in our bridge repair than they ar cpa has assessed in their report. are you aware of that discrepancy at of the two reports? >> i'm not aware of the discrepancy but i'm aware that we are being ground on fixing our bridges as far as being deficient but when you look at that, the number of years and decades it would take to fix our bridges that's the real challenge. the dollars still need to be coming in to be able to fix the ones that are deficient. while it may look better from year-to-year the real challenge is how many years is that going to take and in your case in your state to fix those deficient bridges. >> ride in that's why i absolutely agree that we include this in the package. it's important not just my state but a lot of other states. just on the issue of construction companies now i know a lot of them have gotten ppp loan so a lot of, some of them it seems like when you're on the highways with a lot of construction i'm sure it's a lot less than it was what are you seeing in terms of the safety of your workers and what are you seeing in terms of competence to rebuild and mr. holtz-eakin i don't know if you have a comment on where you see the construction helping to pull us out of where we are right now. i think it would be an important part. >> i guess what i would emphasize is that the supply chain is an important part of the economy keeping it going in the face of a virus is a party. that does say charged drivers real personnel cargo pilots and attending crews they should be a top priority for ppe and the ability to continue to operate as we go forward. the viruses are gone and at least over the same period we have to protect them during the course of their job. that does not diminish the first responders and health workers that people forget about the economics of that supply-chain sometimes and it's very important. >> we had a hearing in congress yesterday and this one is hit hard particularly in areas that might be forgotten like rail or other arenas. >> the rail has been forgotten. they move a lot of cargo. >> i think my time is over. thank you. >> thanks so very much. i think senator whitehouse would the next. i know he is then following it and i think right now he may have had to step away so we returned to senator gillibrand. >> can you share my? >> we can now. we can hear you very well. >> thank you mr. chairman and ranking member for holding this hearing today. i'm very grateful that we have a chance to talk about the impact of covid-19 has been massive to the south in every part of our economy including -- our transportation system. our transit across the state are experiencing staggering losses in revenues and sharp decreases in ridership. that's true in cities and smaller cities across the state. public transit is a lifeline for new yorkers. they are experiencing an increase of ridership of more than 90% during the pandemic could this decrease is not because people in new york all of a sudden no longer want or need it. it's because we have to stay home and ordered to stay safe. despite the decrease of ridership it remains absolutely essential that our subways, buses and rail continue to operate with health care workers to get to hospitals to take care of sick people and people can continue to get groceries and make other essential trips. for so many of our citizens particularly our lowest income community members and communities of color those are the ones who are hit the hardest by covid-19 great public transit is not simply a choice. it's actually a necessity and continues to provide federal funding to replace the lost revenues so that our public transit system doesn't shut down is also essential. once the crisis has passed and it will and riders will come back we have to ensure transit agencies have the resources necessary to make sure those riders are safe. we rely on more traffic in densely populated cities like new york is not the answer and there are those who drive in gridlock and congestion and it will include seniors people with disabilities are veteran community and many of the workers that are so essential during this pandemic. that will allow this to happen so while i appreciate the apartment to hold this hearing today to talk about the role of infrastructure in our recovery we need action by the senate as well. we need to listen to our states and cities that need our help and we need that help right now. infrastructure legislation is always bite -- but the highway recovery would not the a bipartisan approach in this unprecedented crises. my question is what do we need to be doing to make sure that our public transit agencies are able to safely and reliably operate during this pandemic? >> thank you senator. there are a multitude of challenges in our city and we have to as you social distancing honor transit systems. we operate on $10 million a year and our government provides most of the local funding. it's a question of how do we operate in this new environment? some people are now suggesting that people need cars to stop the spread of the virus. we are in this tremendously dynamic role where people are sure with the answers aren't oftentimes they are polar opposite to each other. within those constraints working on safety issues within our transit system as we get our economy back to work i just want to say one other thing around america right now in our downtown areas most of our visits as herb boarded up literally so while we are focusing on the pandemic we need to get a relief belt so we can open up and that's just the reality we have inner cities right now. the house is burning and it's much calmer in many cities. i want to really emphasize the coronavirus is a real issue and we don't know how much longer it's going to be going on. we have got to be speaking to our people to say we understand and as we move forward we expect our economy to come back raids to mckinney talk about the benefits of having a reliable public transit system and the ability to recover? >> absolutely. when you think about the impact of the coronavirus the people that were most impacted our front-line workers who in most instances can be our african-american and latino community. everybody is aware of the disproportionate impact of covid-19 323% of our population is african-american -- so the ability to have public transportation to get these folks safely to work to a job that pays a living wage is absolutely essential. they are also part of that is make sure there's a housing solution that every city of america has lower-income area and unfortunately aren't aware for the jobs are. to have affordable housing throughout the community so people can get to jobs which is an important part of a long-term solution. >> thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you for your comments. senator kramer. >> thank you mr. chairman and ranking member carper and this outstanding panel but i agree with senator carper we have the a-team in front of us and i appreciate this discussion very much. i think it's a timely discussion. i've been a strong advocate for including the transportation infrastructure as part of the recovery since the beginning. because it has a number of advantages and some of you talked about that. it does have the advantage of creating a stimulus. they create jobs for building things that stimulate the economy and people working to stimulate the economy. it has the additional advantage of profitability of the private sector with movement of goods and services and products whether manufactured in st. louis and going to california or tourists going to yellowstone in delaware or north dakota. thirdly it's our responsibility. it's the responsibility of the federal government and the highway transportation bill another of the structure transportation infrastructure. it's a perfect time to do it. to that end that's why wrote an op-ed at the beginning of discussion about the recovery promoting this and i'm glad we are having this hearing to do that. dr. holtz-eakin i appreciate your testimony a lot to bolster the supply capacity of the economy over the medium to long-term. very well said. in fact in north dakota when the rail was booming and everything was high and prices were high labor was high concrete was high priced everything to build anything was very high priced but we needed to do it. when prices went back down our state had the wisdom and the foresight to continue building infrastructure when the cost of everything were lower. when the bombs came back we were well situated. i think there is a good example for us to follow. my question for you dr. holtz-eakin we are good at taking the can down the road. would you as an economist may be share with us some perspective on the difference between where the advantages to a long-term well-thought-out infrastructure bill versus a short-term or even a one-year extension? >> i think there is an enormous difference. this is, ready in terms of planning horizons. you only have a short-term extension you are going to build things that have some sort of the short-term but they may not be the best thing over the long-term. now you have effectively diverted the funds from an unproductive use when you shift to a better long-term plan. my frustration with a lot of proposals that have come up in the last couple of years the infrastructure bills have really been twofold. number one they start by saying infrastructure and pretty soon everything is infrastructure that the good thing about this is, it is what it is. a surface transportation reauthorization and that's the part of infrastructure. the second thing is the short-term focus. again and again we can spend a trillion dollars this year and you can isn't it the better thing to do to take a system that identifies high value projects so that they benefit for longtime and it's refreshing to see that approach. >> mr. mcgough from a construction sampling their art -- standpoint there at deficiencies and mr. holtz can point to a long-term plan. >> there is efficiency and productivity especially from a long-term planning standpoint. even if you think out five years, that's long-term we need in the nation and the ability to rebuild a lot of our roads and bridges. if you look even at the report for your individual states those numbers of new lane miles is only said that 4% across the country. most of those dollars are for reconstruction and repair and along those lines or additional lane miles with an additional right-of-way. it's very important that we maintain that course and that we put a robust bill in front of the full senate and ultimately in front of the president. >> let me throw a hand grenade into the middle of the rim. our president as a builder. he's a developer and he loves low interest rates. african say publicly and in private conversations we should ro couple trillion dollars and by that i mean interest-free which is still that. we should borrow a couple trillion dollars and do it big. does that make sense whether it's a couple trillion or have a trillion? does it make sense of this economic time to do something like that mr. holtz-eakin from an economic standpoint? >> that's not a good way to formulate the problem i don't think. if you are borrowing a trillion dollars to still have budgetary trade-offs awards going to go and you should put into the high-value use and to just advance that that's going to be infrastructure defined without checking other potential investments is a mistake. i like approaches that have an objective which is a highly connected national surface transportation network with efficiencies. that's a well formulated problem that i can understand the funding. taking a trillion dollars and throwing it at anything underneath the sun is not the good approach. >> thank you mr. chairman. first of all i don't think anyone of us here that doesn't believe that infrastructure across the entire spectrum and senator gillibrand is right in some places you need that in many purses the road and bridges. i come from a recent example where we made the hard decision in indiana. i was sitting on the road and transportation committee and ways & means and had gotten into the stark reality when i followed the highway commissioner of highways out the door in the committee room. i was talking about the road i was interested and he said please don't war me with that. tell me how you are going to help pay for it. we did interesting things in indiana. i was the author of the will that was nowhere in the country or regional development authority bill that allowed enterprising local governments to put more skin in the game. we teed it up the next year and got the early stages of a road project in place. i don't know how what we are dealing with now is going to impact that but somehow we have got to convince people here where we borrow money for everything we do, we don't need maybe 23% of our current budget we are borrowing to cover it so it's no good. we got 48 out of 50 stakeholders that were willing to pay user fees in indiana to testify and say we want to pay more in road taxes and i know that diminishes in effect each year. how do any of you convince the people that use the roads to come here and convince us that we need at two put a user free up that hasn't been changed since 1993. mr. mcgough can you start first and i'd like to go around the room. >> i mentioned earlier we been consistent in supporting any and all highway user fees and we believe the users of the system should use that. i know through the years people have stepped up and said they are willing to pay more i mentioned just from the road congestion to safer roads and what it's costing truckers. if you look yearly which is ultimately passed on to you and i and the cost of our services. i think it's time for congress and the president on what has been said since 2016 and what ben said again this year to move forward at the bill to fix and put into long-term sustainable multiyear bill that became, on as an industry and its been shown to the years to be bipartisan. it's one of the more popular programs for the american people today think it's time to make some tough choices and move forward. >> i don't have a magic solution to that but i think one of the real hurdles is making sure that there is a strong connection and an observable connection between the ultimate service that people get back and if they feel they are paying a co-user fee and they don't see a highway that's being kept up in good shape and is congested they start to wonder is this really worth doing and that becomes a problem. then it's just literally a tax. it's not a fee-for-service so structuring the fees as close to the ground so people can see the link between what they pay in what they get i think is a key part of the problem right now. >> mayor when you answer the question we have a thing called community crossing grants in indiana where we offer county and city governments the ability to get more money from the state if they put a little more skin in the game. do you have anything like that available to you and what you think of that idea to stretch the federal dollars that might come in on any project as well as a separate thing but a way to maintain and pay for roads and paid for primarily by city and county governments. >> thank you. you're my neighbor to the north of us. we do not have a program like that but anytime we can get that kind of leverage where it totally want to take advantage of a situation like that. i can provide an observation and cities around the country. to the previous comment when a citizen can say i pay this fee and i'm going to see this project come to fruition you see a very high rate of success in those projects in the neighborhood of two-thirds so you are seeing billions of projects that are locally funded taking place around the country right now. there has been an increase in the local government matching federal funds to the charts are provided to you all. a local government increase in funding is 116% from 2001 to 2015 versus the federal government at 55% so you see more and more activity from local governments in these areas. it's more and more difficult budget situations obviously. a prime example of what we are talking about senators the bridge that connects your stay to my state in the bridges project which is user fees and tolls has really helped pay for jobs but the movement of transit throughout our city and our region as well. kentucky does not allow localities to have with this -- specific referendum projects. we would love to work with their state government we would love to say if locals want to vote on local projects let them vote on local projects and let them pay if they want to pay. >> thank you. senator boozman. soon it thank you mr. chairman thank you all for being here. we do appreciate it very much. mr. holtz-eakin you have had a very distinguished career of being an economic alosi and have been great help in the past 30 years but i think he made a great statement when he talked about a shovel-ready projects that create some jobs but the real benefit is the economic activity that calms after that if they are worthy. president eisenhower for military reasons built the interstate system. as a result of that we became the leader and being able to move goods and services also. that was lesson prices to consumers and that's a great day. now with globalization not only are we worried about again deficiencies in helping our producers now selling to our own population but also trying to concede to globalization. can you talk a little bit about how important is as we try in the logistics how important that is in being able to compete with the worldwide economy? >> we are in constant competition with countries around the world and workers around the world and we have to make sure that our workers have at their disposal the best technologies in the most efficient operating surroundings there are some very particular things and not all are solvable on this committee but the connectivity between different modes is an ongoing problem in united states. trains and trucks to airplanes. they are high congestion areas that jump right out on the west coast at some point in solving those has a big impact on the domestic economy but a big impact on getting stuff in the now. i think that's very important and there are some things that we know going forward that will be more important. we are not going to see commercial air travel for leisure purposes but air cargo and the capacity planes to fly closer together carry greater volumes in the traffic system that moves forward at this better and all the kinds of things that are core of a structure for 21st century when you're competing globally. >> yesterday i was in the hearing on the va committee and the secretary of the va was there and in the last few weeks they hired thousands of va employees using the abilities that under this very difficult circumstance where usually that would take a year, it's amazing. can all of you all talk about and we will start with you mr. mcgough about the importance of a one or two-year project that could be a one or two-year project actually being closer to a decade project. if we can just reduce and again doing it in the correct way and a great example of that is the bridge that fell down in minneapolis. that was done in a year. i don't know how long it would have taken if you did it in the conventional way. how important is that and how would that save us money and allow us to get some of these projects done? c would you have an ability passed last july a lot of it is codified in one federal decision and the lead agency when it comes to transportation we would look to the d.o.t.. being able to get refused down to a two-year window and moving forward that is where a lot of your challenges come with moving projects forward. it's the time to get construction started and as you have seen in projects that have been tracked for accelerated delivery those robot -- and roadblocks get out of the way and see what happens. what we need as a nation is some of the commonsense policy reforms where the average person if you told them how long would take to get it off the ground they would find it hard to believe that is true. we need to shrink that timeline. that's where your efficiencies comment. >> it's a normatively import on a project basis obviously but the flavor at what is really at stake mayorga station keeps track of every regulation and over the eight years of the obama administration it issued a major regulation because the private sector more than $100 million. the total cost of $890 billion, 100 though yen a year. trump administration's approach to regulatory budgets has essentially stopped dead in tracks. there has been a modest increase in the negative with the pandemic. in this pandemic emergency waivers we have seen that cost federal agencies have allow people to do things to respond quickly. i think that's a huge success and to the extent you can codify things that have been done under waivers would be valuable. >> mr. mayor, can you very quickly or the chairman is going to yell at me. >> i will be quick, thank you. a great project management cannot be her place and obviously we always want safety at the forefront of all of these things. we have got to remember their issues around the environment so the environment is overlaid him all these things so are low-income neighbors who feel like okay here we go again we will get the short end of the stick. i just want them say one quick thing. the tech are bridges project of $4 billion budget down to $2.5 billion it's a beautiful piece of infrastructure. to look at projects is very important so you can maximize that. senator there are hundreds of billions of dollars of a shovel-ready projects available to date throughout america as well. people can get started but the work. >> thank you chairman. senator van hollen. >> thank you mr. chairman, thank you and the ranking members and the witnesses who are here with us today and let me just say at the outset i was pleased to be part of a bipartisan vote in our community and the committee in support of the highway authorization bill, five-year bill. as you know mr. chairman the ranking committee which i also serve on has jurisdiction over transit and the senate commerce committee has jurisdiction over heavy rail. we have not marked up a transit bill in the banking committee. i would look forward to doing it justice in as possible. so it's hard to compare what's happening in the committee with the house. the committee has jurisdiction over all of those components not just highways but also transit and heavy rail. i hope you can get moving in the senate on a bipartisan bill but i would insist before any final vote on a highway bill it's a bipartisan transit bill this is a five-year authorization bill that we are talking about and it needs to include transit. i just checked and every infrastructure bill that passed the senate has included roads but also transit and needs to stay that way. i hope we can get moving in the banking and commerce committee and i commend you for moving quickly in a bipartisan basis on the peace. we need all the people that come together even in the senate just as the house needs to come together on all of those elements. mayor fischer thank you for balloting in your opening comments the painful issues that we have to sort out in the country. with respect to systemic racism that are manifesting themselves again and again and again. most recently with the murders that you mentioned. we need to get to the bottom of all those issues. i do believe it's part of making sure we have an economy that works for everybody. we need a good transportation system both roads and highways but importantly transit. could you talk to us about the importance to the city of louisville about transit and whether you will read that as we move forward in the senate on the bill that passed the committee is essential that we move forward on their reauthorization. >> thank you senator. i just want to ramp the size this is all of america folks so we can just say we are going back to business as usual because if that is the case this will continue and continue with great damage not just a human potential but to our economy as well. the question is whether some concrete investments that can be made to send a signal to our communities that have been on the short end for a long period of time that their lives will be made better. public transit is one of those ways. our african-american and low income communities disproportionately rely on public transportation. a system that works well the average user of transportation has a commute is twice as long and people that don't use public transportation and get groceries and it's a complicating factor in their life on top of the burdens that they already have. this is a quick investment to be made saying to people that are suffering i hear you. that's the most important thing people want to hear right now that we hear what they are saying and we are providing help and all the other reasons that i talked about earlier about these investments being critical to this bill. >> on the financing question because we know all know e.t. deb you has authorization jurisdiction but we need the money. to make this work and the question on financing and mr. hoke eakin -- mr. holtz-eakin it's good to connect with you but are in this period of time we essentially had emergency 2.3 a trillion dollars spending to respond to the emergency of covid-19. i think all of us recognize infesting inner structure is one of those long-term investments that will pay dividends to our country. interest rates are low. i have supported a hole for idea financing mechanisms but i'd be interested at this point in time whether you think deficit financing infrastructure makes sense for our economy? >> as i said in my opening remarks i think there is a place for this kind of an infrastructure investment in the recovery strategy. the emphasis is on unemployment insurance has been highly effective. believe it or not disposal of personal income went up $2.1 trillion the cousin of the care act. that's been the focus. there does need to be a long-term more patient approach. as a matter of doing business in 2024 i would hope it will be paid for and you would have a good user fee in place. in 2020s less important. it involves taking care of the economy. now is not the time to do it. >> if i may differ mr. chairman just a follow-up on that. we all want a five-year paid for bill but as i understand your answer you do support some immediate infrastructure investments as far as emergency response that would be paid for like the rest of the emergency built by deficit financing produced that correct? >> i have no problem with that. i want the infrastructure to be a long-term program that another stances we would do. like it to come on line now so the benefits accrue in 2021 and the earliest 2022 and 2023. we need that is part of the strategy. see the thank you all very much. thank you mr. chairman. spending -- . >> senator carper. >> thank you but i want to go back to something that was said in his big inning opening statement. allude to the fact that state and governments, they vote fairly regularly to raise user fees to pay for infrastructure in normal times. these are not normal times but over 30 states have raised their user fees in the last few years to pay for roads and highways bridges and transport and so on. we find if you tiptoe close in the full-blown economy the longest recovery in history over the last 11 years and we are still almost fearful to say we have to pay for transportation infrastructure. there is a reason why something that so hard for us is relatively easy at the state level and one of the reasons is the ability that a state legislate or has our governor has been speaking as a former governor and putting together capitol budget but these projects we want to build that county-by-county by county and so forth enabled to be able to afford those to have the benefit of those counties and cities we are going to raise the user fee. it could be a dime or a nickel or whatever. in delaware, delaware is a state that is -- and the federal government pays an inordinate amount of the share could we have any number of projects that are 80-20 projects like you do but i got a ribbon cutting was from most any significant transportation mall project with state or federal money. i explain to people that are there this is great. we will have this great project and say look what we have done. but it's also paid for and here's how we paid for. we can do that in delaware. harder to do in california are big states like texas but we can do it. part of the challenge is to make it clear to our constituents we are going to add a user fee and how we can go back and say the future is vehicle miles traveled. doesn't matter if you're driving a car at chuck lorre them -- a truck or a van using an electric vehicle or hydrogen fuel cells it doesn't matter you to pay your fair share in a few of the heavier fayetteville -- vehicle that causes more damage has forgot to go. we don't have the light switch and in this case we can use the dimmer switch that we can use the number switch in a smart way that poses towards that future. i want to close with two quick questions one for mayor fischer and again mayor fischer we thank you so much for your leadership and we wish you well in louisville on the constituency have their wish you good luck as you assume the presidency of the national conference of mayors. here's the question, we talked earlier about uncertainty and a lot of uncertainty with respect to the economic recovery but how does that uncertainty affect budgets such as the transportation budget which i believe starts july 1? how important is it that any federal relief comp prior to the ear or sooner if possible? >> it's extraordinarily important right now. the demonstrations in american civil unrest. if we did not get more relief from the federal government we are talking about 600 to 800 people more out of a job in 60% of our budget is made up of first responders so the people that we are asking to help us get through the pandemic their jobs are at risk. we are sending that kind of a message in today's environment so we will use a rainy day fund to get through this as long as we can but the cities across america desperately needs a signal from the u.s. senate and all of washington that here's what it looks like so we can keep our cities running. if we can't keep our cities running the economy is not going to come back. it was tough enough with the pandemic is now a civil unrest we can afford to be laying people off. with loss of jobs comes loss of stability over as well. his sense of broad signal but here's what it's coming in is coming in mid-july or mid-august we need to say yes it's coming and you guys are on your own so we can figure out where to go from there. >> thank you mr. mcgough. i have more -- one more question if i could. mr. mcgough a number of states and cities have larger rainy day funds. we have the worst credit rating in the country under the leadership. the day is approaching $4 million which is a lot of money for a rural state. a lot of states and cities have larger substantial rainy day funds that are quickly depleted due to the virus and the prospect of running out of money i federal transportation funds are a critical component of transportation spending. our state and local provide the lion's share in court transportation funding. question the federal funds remain consistent and construction funds and how will they be impacted in state and local rivers and would you agree that federal action will be critical to economic recovery and growth? >> senator carper i would agree. i believe from at least the state d.o.t. standpoint it would be a backstop that the loss of revenues from that portion of the motor fuels tax decreases significantly affecting their budget. 10 states have currently canceled or delayed project to the tune of $5 billion. 32 states have projected that they expect to have cancellations or delays in projects. the money for the state d.o.t. just for preservation doesn't change the need for a robust multi-or the structure bill. that's what's really going to put our economy back on track and get the roads that we need. >> our colleagues thanks again for this hearing but i want to thank our staff for putting together a turf that panel. not everybody was able to participate. we have a bunch of other hearings going on and some of them are really important. i'm glad we could be here and it's been just a wonderful hearing. i'd like to contained a follow-up with you down the road. mr. chairman ewan i've talked about leadership before and i think a lot of other than you did too. leadership is important when others are marching to the wrong tune. i'm not sure who said that but obviously i said that. another thought on leadership is the words of a french philosopher who used to say our leaders are purveyors of hope. leaders are purveyors of hope and we are talking about a lot of reasons for timely equity and why it's important for us to adopt legislation designed to fun. the other here's hope and there a lot of people right now that don't have a lot of hope. we can provide a good measure of that is a great shot in the arm. it's something that affects us in her everyday life in futures. i'm encouraged we are doing the right thing and my hope is by our example we encourage our colleagues in the senate and the house to do the right thing as well. >> thank you so much for your leadership and your partnership in this entire process. we have letter supporting what we are doing and i'd like to enter them into the record the letters of support we are perceived recognizing the need for action on highway infrastructure legislation and the benefits of the bill that we have passed in a bipartisan way and they include the american association of highway and transportation officials the portland cement association of national stone gravel and sand association and the ietf's america and ietf america stands for the intelligent transportation society of america. we have all sides covered here senator carper. >> i would ask unanimous consent to submit a report from the american transportation association of transit including safety benefits quality economic development and more. it can result in $5 billion of economic growth and that's a pretty good deal where i come from. >> and putting a lot of people to work. without a objection those are submitted by want to thank you all for your testimony that i agree with members of the panel on both sides of the aisle that we have the 18 here today all three of you more questions from those of us here other members may submit questions for the record. we ask you respond to those so the hearing record will stay open for the next two weeks but i want to thank all the witnesses for your time your testimony and thank you mr. maher for joining us remotely. the hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] having lived through a loss of confidence in our cetaceans in the cynicism that is left us unable to trust do we are told anyone who calls themselves an expert it becomes very difficult for us to rise to a challenge like this. the first reaction is to say no they are lying to us and they are only in it for themselves and a lot of our national institutions have got to take on the challenge of persuading people again that they exist for us and they are here for the country. .. watch in-depth on book tv on c-span2. >> the president from public affairs, available now in paperback and e-book. present biographies of every president organized by their ranking by noted historians from best to worst. and features perspective since the lives of our haitian chief executive and leadership style. visit our website, c-span.org/thepresident. to learn more about president history and features. order your copy today. wherever books and e-books are sold. >> u.s. senate returns on monday and plans to spend the week on american outdoors act. legislation to national parks and other public lands. the senate meets 3:00 p.m. eastern. you can watch coverage on c-span2. [cheering] >> with recent protests unfolding across the country watch our live unfiltered coverage of the government's response with briefings from the white house, congress, governors and mayors from across the nation updating the situation. plus efforts addressing the ongoing coronavirus pandemic and campaign 2020. join in the conversation every day on our live : program "washington journal". if you list all of our coverage, watch any time on demand c-span.org or listen on the go with free c-span radio app. >> the senate judiciary committee continued its review of the fbi's russia probe. considering subpoena authorization for documents and witnesses related to the investigation. final vote on authorization next week but members spent nearly two hours debating the issue. the committee did vote on nomination of justin walker to serve on the d.c. circuit court of appeals. sending the nomination to the folks at it for consideration at a time to be determined. >> good morning. i think we have enough to hold a really justice act and wilson from u.s. circuit judge for the fifth circuit. my colleagues will take up the inspector general access next week, the justice department and senator lee trying to find out

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