profane facility news room in downtown raleigh. it was right out of school, i was still in school, i looked across and i said, who is that, that's david zucchino, he will be the new star here, he had long dark hair, over his shoulders, thick jet black mustache, it was a long time ago. [laughter] >> david is a grad of the unc your honorrism school and member now of journalism hall of fame. in raleigh he became famous very quickly in the news room when a new young editor came in and sent out a memo saying this reporter will submit to editor every morning an itinerary for plans for the day. david even then impossible tame, sat at old manual typewriter, legendary story said what i will do today by david zucchino, 10:15 try to sneak in a little late, 10:40 get a sun drop, 11:00, start talking about where to go to lunch. he's writing all of this down, we went to pool's diner yet but the blueprint special went over $40, to go we may go to mecca, all written down, young editor goes crazy. goes into the office of claude, the very severe serious editor who had been at "the new york times", waving the memo, waving the zucchino memo saying we can't have the subordination. well, i got to be honest with you, he's one of the best young reporters i've ever seen, in fact, he may have been the best i ever seen and i did work for "the new york times". so we have to fire him or we have to fire you -- [laughter] >> better start packing. [laughter] >> zuuch was in raleigh, how long, zucch? >> 5 years. >> 5 years in raleigh and then up quickly up the ladder, philadelphia, los angeles, all this is correspondent which has been a contract correspondent for "the new york times", he has been under fire, he has been under water, it has been quite a career and, you know, the late jimmy said, mike of the chicago paper when they were doing a sum of columns and they were trying to get quotes and everything, he said he's the best, that's all he said. and that's what they say about david zucchino. [laughter] [applause] >> thank you, jim, for those stories, welshing it's true. >> absolutely. >> all right. well, thank everybody for coming out tonight, i really appreciate your interest in the book. i'd like to ask how many people have been watching the impeachment hearings? and i think they are still going so do i hear a motion to call this whole thing off? we will go to the bar and turn on the tv, no motion? okay. all right. i usually like to start off by asking people how many of you were aware of the coup or massacre before you came across this book? okay, so most of you. i have to admit, i hadn't heard about this until about 20 years ago and i went to high school and college in north carolina. never heard about it, never heard about it in history class from any history teacher, when i went to unc, many, many years ago i was assigned a dorm and i had no idea who morrison was, i knew he was a governor, that's all i knew about him and years later when i'm researching this book i find out he's one of the leading speakers on the white supremacy campaign that's the subject of this book in 1892. when i was in school i went to king stadium to watch football games, i didn't mow who he was and i didn't care, years later as i'm researching the book turns out he's a character in my book as well, he was a member one of the machine gun crew that is went to town searching out black men to kill. after i left school as jim told you, i went to the observer whose founding bubble learn was daniels, who was revered at the paper, there were tributes to him all around the news room, nobody ever mentioned that he was -- almost the leader to have white supremacy campaign and led campaign in 1998,i had no idea, i found out recently that the student stores at chapel hill are named daniels store, i had no idea, one of 30 buildings i'm told by the daily tar hill on the campus that are named after white supremacists, many of them who were active in the white supremacy movement of 1898 and i bring all of this up just to make the point that this book isn't really ancient history, it's right now, it's about right now, the legacy of the book is all over the state, it's all over chapel hill. some people who managed to read the book, i asked them their impressions and they usually have two questions, first is how did i not know about this, and the second is how could this happen in the united states of america, the only thing i can tell them is that this is a forgotten chapter of american history, not just north carolina history but american history that was covered up or mischaracterized for more than a century. i think most of you know the basic story, i will go through it quickly, in 1898 white supremacist overthrew multiracial government in wilmington, they killed up to 60 black men and wounded dozens more, burned down the black daily newspaper and they evicted city leaders at gunpoint. they appointed the mob leaders as mayor, police chief, sheriff and city aldermen and they banished black and white political leaders, they marched them with militia men at gunpoint to the train station, they put them on the train and said if you ever come back to wilmington, we will shoot you on site, not one of them ever came back. and you can imagine during this period what it must have been like for the black families who lived in wilmington, their men were being shot down on the street and gunmen were running through the streets terrorizing people and hundreds of them fled into the swamps and the cemeteries of outside the city trying to hide from the white government and this was in november, so you can imagine it was cold and this happened to be the first day they were there, it was raining, there were some reports that babies died of exposure. living under terrible conditions and took two two nights and 3 days before they felt safe enough to return and in the days and weeks following the coup, 2100 black people fled the city and never came back. and what's really hard to believe about all of this is that no one was ever punished, no one was prosecuted much less convicted for the murders or for violent coup, it's all hard to believe that they announced it all ahead of time, they said that they would overthrow, quote, negro rule by the ballot or the both, they said they were going to do it and they did it as the whole country watched because they had announced it well before and this would have been in the spring and summer and fall of 1898, all the major newspapers sent white reporters to cover it, the new york times was there, the washington post, chicago tribune, philadelphia inquirer, baltimore, washington evening star, the papers in charlotte and atlanta and, of course, the news and then white reporters, the leaders to have white supremacy would meet them there and hand out cigars, give them liquors and arrange lodging and to use modern term they would embed them with the white gunmen that are going around patrolling the city, this was before the coup and reporters would go out, never interviewed a black person as far as i can tell but they would go out and they would swallow the stories, capable of government and right to vote, they sent back, so the nation got this whole story that was basically the talking points of the white supremacy through the white press. this was called, quote, a race riot, it wasn't, it was a racial massacre, it was a planned murder spree, now in our nation's history, in 19th and 20th centuries, many, many so-called race riots and almost all of these were spontaneous outbursts of white rage and in many cases, real or supposed connect black men and white women, one that was unique was completely different. it was premeditated, carefully orchestrated racially revolution, planned well in advance, most successful and permanent violent overthrow of an elected government in u.s. history, there's never been anything like it it. it was a bold experiment, willington was outlier in late 19th century, rarity in the south, majority black city, 56% black, very, very few big cities in the south had a black majority, but more importantly it had a multiracial government, blacks were in positions of authority, ten of 26 police officers in the city were black, 3 of the ten city alderman were black, black -- wilmington the freest town for a negro in the country. of course, this was intolerable for white supremacists and they were not going to let it stand. now, they had a goal, the first goal was to overthrow the government in wilmington, but that was just their first goal, bigger goal and major goal was to deny black people the right to vote and the right to hold public office forever and by those standards it was an incredible by successful coup, in 1896 there were 126,000 registered black voters in north carolina, 126,000, in 1906, 10 years later, 6100. and it when downhill from there. and, in fact, black citizens in north carolina did not vote in significant numbers for 70 more years until after the voting rights act of 1965. the coup also turned the black majority city into a white supremacist stronghold, almost overnight. in 1898 asi said 80% black, somebody knows, 18%. in 1898 america had one black congressman in the entire country, one black congressman, george henry white and he was from north carolina and he represented a district in the southern part of the state adjacent to wilmington, he was harassed, he and his family were harassed and basically run out of office by white supremacist, he said in 1900 he was not going to run for reelection, he was leaving the state and parting words were, i cannot live in north carolina and be treated as a man and after that george henry white left office in 1900, no black citizens from north carolina served in congress until 1992. almost a century later. now, after those 3 black aldermen were evicted at gunpoint in 1888 no served in city council until 1972, wasn't that long ago. the coup also installed white supremacy and jim crow as official state policy for nearly 20 years, it inspired white supremacists across the south, let me give you one example, in georgia in 1906 there was a statewide election campaign and the white supremacists there were trying to figure out a way to deny blacks the votes and steal the election. what do you think they did? they consulted with the leaders of the wilmington coup to find out how to do it, now the white supremacist governor who got elected was hope smith and here is a direct quote from him, quote, we can handle the black the way they handled them in wilmington, hanging carcasses, close quote. white republican officials were -- the black vote was what helped put republicans and populists in office under a government that was called fusion at the time and some whites helped the black neighbors escape the white gunmen on the day of the coupe. but that made them targets, during the summer of 1998 white republican who is were prominent and seen as working too closely with black officials received some postcards in the mail and they were called quote remember the six and they had a skull and cross bone and pistol on them, it was a death threat and on the card it said, the 6 men, the 6 leading white republicans of the town, they called them, quote, degenerates sons to have white race and they said, the day was coming when they would pay for putting blacks in office and they would be vanished from the town and it turned out, they were. the major, the white mayor, the white police chief, the white federal commissioner and several white lawyers were marched at gunpoint the day of the coup to the train station, put on the train and said don't come back, we will kill you and not one of them ever came back. now the main weapon or one fakes campaign, and for the nearly 25% of white voters who were illiterate daniel hired a cartoonist to draw race-baiting cartoons, i would like to read a brief passage from the book about the propaganda campaign. daniels manipulation of white readers through phoney stories were daring and disinfected disinformation campaign of the era, the most sensational stories focused on what daniels and other democrats claimed, the black beast, as native of the south, daniels understood implicitly the sexual insecurities of white southern males, already e hassulated by union troops who would occupy their towns, they risked further shame if black men were elevated to something approaching a quality. a black man who could vote or hold public office was a man who might by their logic become a rival for the affections of white women, daniels escalating incidents in page, all that required was incidental contact between a white woman and black man, with each cartoon and with each provocative article, daniels pitted whites against blacks, the day was coming daniels wrote in the news when white men, quote, will take the law in their own hands and by organized force make the negroes behave themselves, close quote. a race war was inevitable, quote, a clash is surely coming between the races daniels assured his readers, quote, and in such clashes the white race is always victorious. now white supremacists had their own fake news and their media campaign but also had their own militias, militia, they were called redshirts and basically outgrowth of the klan, many of the men were sons of confederate veterans and former clan members. militia of the white supremacists, the redshirts job was to ride out to country site at night, burst into homes drag out black men and beat them and whip them and tell them they would be killed if they registered to vote or dare to vote on election day. and on election day, which is in november of 1898, they intercepted any black man who was trying to get to the polling station and intimidated them and beat them and by doing so they crushed the black turnout that day and they stole the election. now in addition to redshirts there were two state militias in wilmington, the first was the wilmington infantry and the wilmington naval reserve, these were basically the national guard to have day, they were suppose today report to the governor in raleigh but they were, in fact, commanded by white supremacists and reported to the coup leaders. the militia men served that summer in the spanish-american war, the war played out that summer. but the white leaders made sure that they were back in wilmington from the war from the time of the coup and planned the coup for 2 days after the election and then during the coup and during the riot, the militia men were still in federal service, they were federal service because they wouldn't be mustered out for a week or two, that meant that several soldiers murdered american citizens on the pretext of putting down a black riot. now blacks, black soldiers also served in the spanish-american war in segregated units, but white leaders made sure that they were far from wilmington on the day of the coup at training camp in georgia hundreds of miles away and that left the black community defenseless, all the young men trained as soldiers, trained in weapons but they were miles away. now they were defenders to have black community and one of those named alex, black publisher of the daily record and as a journalist i was really drawn to manly, he was a courageous man, just an amazing character, he challenged whites and demanded civil rights for blacks, demanded that the country live up to its promises to black citizens, now in august of 1898, he wrote editorial about race and sex that almost got him lynched. many black men were lynched for raping white women which in fact, were lovers. editorial was in response to a speech by a white woman in georgia who said the only solution to rape was the lynch rope, quote, a thousand times a week if necessary. i'd like to read now briefly from the editorial, fairly long editorial and i'm just going the read a short selection from it. quote, every negro lynch is called, quote, a big black, close quote, many have dealt with had white men for fathers and not only black in burly but sufficiently attractive for white girls of cultural and refinement to fall in love with them as very well known to all. led virtue be something more than excuse for them to intimidate and torture helpless people, tell your men that it is no where for a black men to be indicate mate with a white women than for a white man intimate with a colored woman. you set yourselves down as hypocrites in that you cry out loud for the virtue of your women while ewe seek to destroy the morality of ours. now you can imagine what courage it took for a black man under these conditions in 1898 to write something like that. now people often ask me how i researchinged -- researched this book and i'm a journalist as jim mentioned. obviously in this case there are no witnesses left from 1898 so everything that's in the books came from documents and i have piles and piles of papers in my office from all the documents that i collected. i spent a lot of time in libraries, most significantly at wilson library at unc and southern historical collection and north carolina collection which are amazing repositories of history, i really recommend that you should go. but there was a problem, the whites were proud of their accomplishments and they boasted about it in memoirs and in the dairies and letters and in newspaper columns, there was a really rich detailed white record but blacks left behind far fewer documents as you can imagine they were running for their lives, the daily record was burned, all the back copies were destroyed, although people are finding back copies now. so what i was able to do thankfully is that there were black newspapers around the country who obviously could not send black reporters to wilmington to cover the events because at the very least they would have been beaten and run out of town and probably killed but after the coup when all these black families spread around the country, mostly on the eastern sea board, black newspapers would interview them and get some very rich and detailed stories, very expressed stories about what had happened, so that was a great resource for me. in addition, there were black ministers and black lawyers who left very, very interesting memoirs and left letters with incredible detail, one of the great sources i had was alex manley's wife who wrote beautiful series of letters to her sons in 1950's that are just poynant to read and i quote some of them in the book. so with all of this i was able to balance the white narrative with the black experience. what i tried to do also was to put myself in wilmington as a journalist in 1898. and i also tried to use the tools of a novelist, characters and scenes and dialogue to create a narrative that's built entirely from documents, now, this is not a historical fiction book. this is a nonfiction book, everything in this book comes from documents, it's work of journalism and it's not fake news to use a popular term of the day. [laughter] >> before closing, i want to read two short passages from the book that show the scope of this tragedy, first is an election speech given to redshirts by colonel alfred moore, former confederate colonel who led the mob and installed himself as mayor. again, this is the night before the election when he gave a speech to a huge crowd of red shirts in wilmington, quote, man, the crisis is upon us, you must do your duty, the city county and state shall be rid of negro domination once and forever. you have the courage, you are brief, you are the sons of noble ancestry, you are prepared and do your duties go, to the polls tomorrow and if you find the negro, tell him to leave the polls, if he refuses, kill him, shoot him down in his tracks. now to show how the redshirts responded i would like to read another passage, a black man named carter payton who is fascinating character, he spent the summer encouraging blacks to vote, on the day of the riot, 3 white leaders of the coup persuaded to go with them door to door in black neighborhood called brooklyn to plead not to resist the black gunmen. great public show of urging blacks to vote but earlier in the day on november 10th which is the day of the coup he concluded that further resistance would only get him killed, he had gone from house to house in brooklyn, accompanied by 3 white men pleading with black residents not to oppose the white gunmen, at one point a group of enraged black men seized the 3 white men and held them hostage. it was the sort of bold and desperate act that might be expected of peaman himself but surprised by pleading with the black known release captive. after series of negotiations the 3 whites were set free, escorted them by nearby gathering of white gunmen, several white men in the crowd attempted to lynching but intercepted by hostages and just before dark the infantry detachment arrested and escorted him to city jail, a short time later infantry soldiers took him from jail and marched him at gunpoint to the train depo where he was placed to board departing train. he was terrified, before train departed two developments made situation more dire, first he was warned by the soldiers that he would be killed on site if he ever returned to wilmington, second, a gang of redshirts boarded the train just before it rolled out of the depo, the infantry detachment departed leaving alone with the redshirts. a few hours later his body riddled with bullets discovered in the woods near hilton park in outskirts. more likely that he was executed on board and his body flung from the speeding train. finally, north carolina history and american history would be mentioned in the north carolina public history books and schools, in fact, it was barely mentioned. and it was -- and if it was it was portrayed as a heroic white response to a black race riot and a, quote, good government effort to replace corrupt, quote, negro rule. .. .. here is from the 1949 textbook. a number of blacks were jailed. finally, this is from 1940 textbook about the kkk remember this is a public school textbook. to put an end to this terrible connection which they named the ku klux klan. members dressed as ghost. they could be writing to bring order back in. they have done wrong. and they were lifted. they would visit this. after this lawless men were not so bold and crime became less and less. public school textbook 1940. so you can see how the white methodology became this way for so long. i believe we have to confront the ugliest chapters to understand the root of racism and hate. they are using social media to demonize people with color. in fact, some of the white nationalist jews well not replace us in charlottesville what it you felt right at home in williamson. white voters today are being told by some extremists that america is a white country on people of color are portrayed as outsiders. a few politicians are using some of the same tactics as the white supremacist. i will give you one example. in addition to that many death threats he received. he was told to go back to africa just the summer three congresswomen of color were told to go back to their home countries. in 1898 they were told that they were raiding their women and stealing their jobs. they are pouring across the border to steal their jobs. if you don't live and learn from these they can play the race card again and again to insight the hate and violence that was so destructive 122 years ago. if there is one thing i do take from this book i hope that's it. thank you for listening. and i think we are going to open it for questions now. >> two quick questions. first is i have heard on npr that there was some difficulty in obtaining the information. in some of the libraries. was there any realization from the federal government politicians and other states at the time. i did not had any trouble getting documents. they are very well catalogued. kate fair museum. in the national archives. there was no trouble. more documents than you can handle. i write in the book about how the mckinley administration was warned repeatedly beforehand during the summer and fall of 1898 george henry white personally in the white house with mckinley and warm ten about what was can happen a group of black encouraging -- clergymen also warmed about the same thing. as in the white republican congressman from north carolina. they all warned him after the ride in the crew. they went back and asked president mckinley for help and intercession. other black ministers did the same. as far as i can tell mckinley did not make one single public statement about the situation. you have to remember this was in the aftermath of the spanish-american war. the negotiations with the spanish were going very poorly his administration was being accused of not taking care of the troops they were poorly fun. it was a huge controversy. i had been a union officer. he campaigned for the black vote. but he was also trying to bring the nation together. during his campaign they gave them each a knife. in 1898 it was after the civil war. they are fighting together in the war. i think for all of these reasons he didn't intercede. in answer to your question there was no intercession by the federal government. >> i would like to know about the reaction governor mcdaniel. and the reaction from barnett. governor russell was the republican and in fact he was put in office with the help of a black vote. he was from wilmington he was from a slave owning family and was part of of the white white gentry and wilmington. he was under threat by the white supremacist. completely intimidated him. they threatened him with the fascination. they threatened him with impeachment. he managed to boat. he have to go through red shirt talents in order to get back to raleigh on the train. they have to hide him in a baggage car. they would try to lynch him and he made it to raleigh only to find that the governor's mansion was surrounded by a mom and he barely got inside. in order for federal troops to come down he was at about two because he was terrified. >> i am wondering if they had been so successful in suppressing the boat why did they feel it was necessary to go ahead with the coup. municipal election was there. they know once they stole the election they would be in the position to do whatever they wanted to do stop them they planned it for two days after the election and they removed the officeholders. >> yes sir. >> there sounding the alarm and winning. bringing that bow. obviously our local newspaper has on its mast the hope to be the toxins for misdeeds. was there any role. from descendents or owners of that. we were just in wilmington over the weekend. with the hundredth year anniversary there was quite a debate in the city. that debate is still going on. how could you possibly compensate all of these families. it is an important issue. i don't have the answer to it. it is a big issue. an ironic quote that is run on the editorial page. if you read the words you might burst out laughing. >> as you mentioned in the epilogue it is the unc campus. is it time to topple that statue. >> i'm not getting into that one. that is enough for me to decide. i will say i did anticipate a question about silent sam and many of you might know this but the speaker was put up. everybody has heard of them. the tobacco company he was a very vocal supporter as i say in 1913 he delivered a speech and not grading silent sam let me read you a couple of quotes. it was pretrade as a tribute to the students who left the university to serve in the war and it was because a lot of students died in the war. he made it clear it was also a tribute to white supremacy. carr said the students had thought to save the very life of the england and race of the anglo-saxon. they also brag about flogging a black woman. i horse whipped a negro wench until her skirt was in shreds. he called it a pleasing duty. i just wanted to make that point again this is an ancient history it is very much alive today. it still stands. >> wilmington happened and you mentioned georgia and then we had rosewood and we have tulsa. can you comment about the interrelationship of wilmington happening and setting the standard for subsequent white supremacy massacres. >> i can only assume that those so-called riots would have happened regardless of wilmington but as i pointed out before wilmington was absolutely unique in that it wasn't a spontaneous outburst of rage. it was planned and premeditated over a. of time. a lot of them happened before 1898. whether it have an effect are contributed to the ones after that i really can't say. >> i was wondering if you could talk more about the role of the north carolina democratic party it was different today back in 1898. if you talk more about that and any subsequent things to overturn it or not. the documentation that was put out among the white militia. the democratic party was the party of white supremacy of course. he was on the executive committee of the democratic party in fact, he was a politician who happened to own the biggest and most powerful newspaper in the state. he met regularly in his office with the democratic executive committee they plan strategy to deprive blacks of the boat and to align blacks in this phony news campaign and he did as a member of the democratic party. the chairman of the democratic party after the coup the whites head to figure out in the democratic party have to figure out how they could buy legislation keep blacks from voting. there were pole faxes and literacy test then. those were used to keep blacks from voting. as i said before nearly a quarter of the whites were illiterate. they to figure out how to keep them from the test. they had daniels go to louisiana which the year before have passed a grandfather clause which was a brilliant piece of registration. that law said any person whose father or grandfather had voted before 1867 would be exempt from the poll tax and literacy test. 1868 was the year that they got the vote. daniels thought this was wonderful the democratic party sent him down there to do what they pretrade as the journalistic investigation on this but in fact daniels didn't want to pay for it. they went and wrote the amazing story about how wonderful the grandfather clause was and how it have completely snuffed out the black vote and said we really had to try this in north carolina. in 1900 they passed an amendment and it was passed into law and that was used up until 1915 when several other that inspired four other civil states to do the same thing. by that time black voting have been snuffed out in north carolina and across the south. front row. did you find in wilmington that people look at some of the heroic characters that you found. are they been honored or remembered for the role. they have a historic marker. there is a real movement in wilmington now to have abraham galloway get some sort of recognition or something if you haven't read the book he is an amazing character. he is from just outside wilmington he escaped they came back and it was a union spy. he was the first black senators there is a movement to have some sort of tribute to him. >> let's go to the back. speaking of reparations is there any documentation of african-american property that wascommon skated and the current value of it? >> that has been an issue for many years and among the black community there was a conviction that whites confiscated their property after they fled. there was a researcher named sue and cody who did a study of all of the property records. this is in the 2006 state commission life report. she found that there was very few examples of this. the conclusion i have they wanted to deprive the blacks of their civil rights not their property. what have happened was even when black families left they would leave the property and have it taken over by black friends or relatives. according to the study most this study most of the property stayed in black hands. >> i haven't heard any question over on the side. to the new united states senator they are after the state 1901 to 1931. the question was about simmons he was ahead of the democratic party and one of the leaders of the white supremacy campaign. he catapulted the fame alone with other people in 1898 he mentioned 30 years as a u.s. senator and rob christiansen right here in the back wrote a terrific book with politics in north carolina. i recommend it highly. daniels rose to fame and he became secretary of the navy under woodrow wilson who was the said gradation is who spent years as a young man. a nationally known figure. many other whether it was three speakers who became governors in catapulted the fame as a result of their role in the campaign. >> i have a couple of comments and a question. you mentioned earlier about brooklyn. i grew up in brooklyn, new york. first of all the story is an outrageous story. is it possible first my comment. the sounds almost like a blueprint for the holocaust. there is a lot of similarities. my question is this is a possible the actions of wilmington. he felt like there were good people on both sides. i know he never sent it to my knowledge. i really do think he did not want to in tag and ice white voters not only in north carolina but across the south. it was a politician running for reelection. >> we were working with some young people. i was wondering if you'd heard from members of those communities. particularly st. mark's. two descendents came to apologize. with what their ancestors have done. have you seen evidence of how 1888 played in the 1970s. about the wilmington ten. the outlines of the story. most people are familiar with that. i won't go into the whole story. you can only assume that some of the hate and the racism blood over into white pulled. they were later exonerated. we have the clan marching in 1971. i don't know the details. i see a straight line of that phase. when the ten young people. the young people were wanting a place to meet and discuss their grievances. no church would open up. they were afraid of what would happen. and you mentioned black defendants. i tried really hard and went all over the city when i was doing the book to try to get people to talk to me. now when i went down. all of them are coming forward. i think there is a part of that working there that people did the people did not want to talk about. they replaced the record. they completely ignored me. i think it was a legacy. i don't think they wanted that. they never talk to me. >> our students had been researching only documented lynching. in the last two weeks it keeps taking us back who was in dc. the secretary of navy with wilson and the thomas dixon was when the leaders in the clan and also the time for raleigh. it would've been the one to know that george taylor had been arrested. they said it wasn't him. they were waiting in the driveway. that night he was murdered. he was lynched in a 300 person mob. when was the peak of this campaign. they look around this room. i have to say i have just gotten called out. you said white people are getting involved finally. here we are. when is a decline in your book. as you know the clan sort of went underground and came back in a big way i would think the 1920s. it is not the over racism. you the legislature here just past. the federal courts ruled. obviously it is not the same level of racism and hate. an attempt to keep black citizens from voting. yes ma'am. this is more a personal level. and i moved to raleigh about 40 years ago. they had been a member of the jc previously. when i moved from fayetteville. was how liberal the raleigh nation observer was. here you talk about the fast -- pass. they've seen some light with the generation offspring. i just want to know on a personal basis you see any difference in the writing a newspaper today when i worked there today. was a very progressive liberal paper. it was a force. in exposing fraud by republicans and democrats. it remained a democratic paper. but today's a democrat. i think the editorial page over the years has gone to liberal democratic opinions and values. >> why do you think that changed. the family did take it over and there was a time when it was still conservative in the 50s but i think once the democratic party changed when the segregationist wing of the democratic party bolted for the republican party and the democratic party became the voice of progressives. at the same time african-american voters appended to the republicans. i think they have a choice to make whether to stay with the democrats. as i say from the time i worked there until this morning the paper is i think most people would agree editorial is mainstream liberal progressive. you ask about the daniels. i worked for frank daniels junior. i talked to him and you can read about it in the book. he has mentioned in the epilogue. thank you so much. >> great question. and now on c-span two book tv more television for serious readers.

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