Give an answer, its how she raised him. Her husband, augustine, died when george was young. She was in her 30s raising six children. That alone would resonate with a lot of women in america today. The tough times she went through raising her children. To byhe was referred biographers, from her passing to the time of the civil war, she came across as june cleaver. War, realismil began to take hold in American Literature with moby dick, tom sawyer, huckleberry finn, and all of that. Also, the biographers who mentioned her made her look more like joan crawford, so both got it wrong. There were elements of both of her character and makeup, but both got them wrong. I decided, plus i lived in the was in the life lively area of virginia. It seemed like i wanted to write something about washington, but he had pretty much been covered, soup to nails, but the way to get in and talk about him was to a book about his father. Host give us a quick ir gripper of Mary Washington. It she born in the United States . Give us information about her. Guest she was born in the United States. Was born of means, not like the upper classes but the upper middle classes of virginia society. , shethe time she was born had lost her mother, father, stepfather, so she knew about death intimately by the time she was 11. She meets augustine in her 20s, and proceeds to marry him, and in nine years, she had six children. On ferry farm, outside of fredericksburg, virginia, for a time. As things evolved and augustine died, and the children moved on, she moved into fredericksburg where she spent the rest of her life. She was not as active in the the local she went to church, we know she liked to dance, but there are a lot of gaps in the stories. Its like picking up its like buying a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle and having 300 pieces missing. Youve got to stitch it together, and make educated besses about what was the part of the puzzle to get you from a to c. That is what we had to do. We searched everything at mount vernon, cincinnati society, fredericksburg, and fredericksburg newspapers, Mary Ball Washingtons home, mary but Washington Library in virginia, everything we could combed everything we could to assemble the first story of Mary Ball Washington. Host why is it necessary for americans to know the complete story of Mary Ball Washington . What do we learn about George Washington and about the beginnings of america from her . . Guest he had an old step brother named lawrence who was part of augustines married to jane, and jane died and augustine married mary. George looked up to lawrence as a role model, and lawrence was a very good man, but he also died in his late 20s, early 30s. Attributes, of his his patriotism, his loyalties, intelligence, integrity, fidelity, all of these things had to come from somewhere. Clearly, they came from his mother. She was the one who taught him life lessons that made him the president , the standard by which all other president s are measured. I wanted to people to understand the 1700s was not a very hospitable century for a lot of people, african slaves, but also women. She obviously didnt have the vote, but she couldnt own property. Women in that century couldnt own property. They would inherit it from there husband and there husband died, but then, their job was to be a custodian of the property and pass it along to their eldest son. That is what she did with the farm. Augustine left it to george and she was the custodian of it. Then, interestingly enough, indicative of the relationship, handed ferryreally farm over to george, even though he expressed frustration with her for not executing the paperwork to give him that farm, which his father had left to him. Host what was her relationship like with george . Where they close . Where they distant . Tell us about the relationship between a young George Washington and his mother, and then older George Washington with his mother. Guest i suppose washington, in amost of us, was lifetime or fruitless quest to please his father. [laughter] rather expected him to go out and do good things. It was expected of people of that class, that strata, virginia society, to go out. You were not supposed to be wasteful, you were supposed to go do things. George was so happy presiding over the Continental Congress, was the commanderinchief of the Continental Army and was annexed elected unanimously as the president of the United States and reelected unanimously. When he was 14 years old, he wanted to join the british navy as a cabin boy. She wrote a letter to her brotherinlaw who was in london and said tell me about how americans are treated in the british navy. He wrote a letter back and set under no circumstances can you allow george to become a cabin boy. Its the lowest rung, and cabin boys typically were british royalty, british subjects, then french, spanish, whatever. At the lowest wrong, even below jamaicans and african slaves were american cabin boys. They were treated the worst of all. This is at a time as well when one third of cabin boys died at sea. When she gets this letter from her brotherinlaw, she puts her foot down and says george, under no circumstances can you join the british navy. Host how did he take that . , basedas far as we know on the Little Information we have, he was disappointed. But, he did as his mother told him to do. Host which is what we all do eventually. Guest exactly. [laughter] guest or we try to at least. Host i want to read a little from your book, something you said about Mary Ball Washington. Saint or an as a villain, nothing together, but her character complemented each other. Aries kindness and control were one and the same. Mary washington was a woman who used the facade of motherly virtue to cover her desire to control her son. In the same way he led a country to break away from its overpowering imperial matriarch. To stepad to struggle away from the power of his demanding mother. Give us ways in which george had to break away, and prove his independence to his mother. Guest one example i gave you about the cabin boys, joining british navy. When he joined the french and indian wars, when he was in the british Army Fighting the french and indians in the ohio valley, she implored him not to go, and he went, despite her. On the other hand, he was very dutiful about delivering an allowance to her several times per year, sometimes more than a few times per year. Host and you mean part of his salary. Guest part of his income from mount vernon and things like that. He would take money to her in fredericksburg, for her to help make ends meet. Battles overtrast, property, battles over whether or not he joined the british army, british navy, but there was also clear that she did love him it was clear that she did love him and it was clear that he loved her. It was a loving relationship. Host i want to let our viewers join in on the conversation. We will open up regional lines for this last hour. That means, if you live in the eastern or central time zones, we want to do at 202 7488000 we want you can to call in at 202 7488000. If you are mountain or pacific, your number is 202 7488001. Keep in mind, you can always text us your questions at 202 7488003, and we are always reading social media, on twitter atpanwj and on facebook facebook. Com cspan. Im always interested in the research that goes into things like this. The further we go back in history, the harder it is to find material that helps us build these narratives. What did you work from to come up with the story of Mary Ball Washington . What information was out there on who she was and her life . Yout previous books, and have what you knew to be factual, believe it was factual, versus the stuff that was maybe having a little hole in it or Something Like that. His letters, washington was a prodigious writer of letters. Her letters, some of which survived to this day, multiple accounts, letters from her children like betty and samuel to her, and letters from her to her children. Local newspaper accounts, thirdparty accounts, there was an account once where french soldiers going through fredericksburg joined the American Revolution, and they recorded mary was anything but in support of the revolution, which was interesting because her son was leading the revolution. Host host say that again. Host say that again. Guest the indication was she was not all that thrilled about the revolution, that she was loyal to the British Crown, even as her own son was leading the American Revolution. There was a count of french soldiers going to fredericksburg that noted marys difference to the whole revolution. Host since we are talking about it, lets jump into it. Mary ball washington grew up as a british subject. Her son is leading a rebellion against the culture she grew up in. Did that cause a conflict between the two . Guest not that ive been able to discover. You are exactly right, from the time she was born along about we dont know when she was buried and we know her approximate age and we know she died of breast cancer. Her approximate age was 83 when she died but no one is sure. She grew up correctly in the british culture. She was a british subject and went to the local anglo church. She grew up believing in the divine right of kings, that king george of the second, king george the third where the absolute heads of the british empire, and she was the british subject of the american colonies and part of the american colonies. She and a lot of other people like her were asked to forget everything they have been immersed in for the last 60 years and the like. Everything youve learned, you have to unlearn. Everything you know is wrong. You dont bow down to kings, the British Parliament is not running things, you dont take your orders from parliament, we the deck andble throw off that colonial power, and we will become an independent nation. This is earth shattering for a lot of people. This is before the internet, before regular newspapers and television. Thes of communication are spoken word, written word, and newspapers. Things moved slowly, but when the revolution happens, which goes in slow motion because the American Revolution really starts probably 10 or 15 years 1776, allhe july 14, edict ofking georges american colonies not to settle the ohio valley. Overlong period of time, 10 years or more, Great Britain and parliament, and the king are pushing more and more down on the american colonists, and sometimes they withdraw these acts, and sometimes they dont. Up around 1774, that results in the declaration of independence in 1776. She is watching all this but really not involved at all. Like a lot of people, she is not involved. There is no record of her knitting socks for the american or hosting fundraisers, or members of american the colonial army, nothing like that whatsoever. She was an observer at best. T washington at the time George Washington was probably the most famous living american at the time, he and ben franklin. Was she ever . In any danger during the revolution you would think what she ever in any danger during the revolution . You would think the british might collect his mother. Guest they didnt engage in things like that. Im not sure how well known that she was not a supporter of the revolution. Obviously he knew, but he was preoccupied with this ragtag britishg to victory after british victory, and that is washingtons genius, he kept the army together going from battle to battle. Losing many and winning a few, but winning a few important ones. Guest was there contact host was there contact between then general washington and his mother during the revolution . Guest no. He wrote many letters to martha and she wrote many letters to him, but virtually no communication between george and mary during the seven years of the American Revolution. Host why do you think that was . Is it simply because he was too busy . Guest i dont think there was anything host maybe a rip in the relationship . Guest nothing emerged to suggest that. Not any contemporary letters whatsoever or diaries whatsoever seem to indicate there was a rift between the relationship, it was just he was very busy. Examples as well of how much he loved her and devoted to her he was. All the letters to her were addressed as honored madam. It was respectful, that was clear, but it kept her in somewhat an arms length distance. Its so formal, to keep it from being too personal. Host lets let some of our viewers join in on the conversation. We open up regional lines. If you live in the eastern or central time zones, your number is 202 7488000. If you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, your number is 202 7488001. Lets talk to jim who is calling from tucker, georgia. Jim, good morning. Guys. good morning, you fascinating topic. Have ation is, well i couple questions and comments. First of all, you talk about the way people communicated back then, and you didnt mention a town crier, so i would be interested to know how that impacts the way folks communicated back then. Regarding the relationship with interestingthats stuff. I would like to know how the temperate i guess it wasnt a temperate movement back then, but how that relationship may have affected washingtons perspective on the rescue rebellion after he was president. Then, i have i would like to know, two more things. You look at the way people communicated back then and you talk about his letters and things like that, and that is great. People have letters to look at, but now with our culture the way it is now and all of the ecommu wonder how that will affect research. The last thing, i want to hear your comments on how washingtons relationship with his mother may compare or contrast to president trumps relationship with his mother. [laughter] guest thats a lot of questions. I will try to do my best. Know about Donald Trumps relationship with his mother. Most president s had very good relationships with their mother, and i think that is a key indicator of what type of president they would be. Obviously, Abraham Lincoln spoke , andy about nancy hangs Sarah Roosevelt was domineering of franklin roosevelt, but he lived with her his whole life basically, even when he was president and went home to sunnyside in hyde park. Reagan ronald reagan, i have written four books about ronald reagan, had a very devoted relationship with his mother. So much so, that when he was of age, he and his brother, neil, were given the choice of following their fathers religion of Roman Catholic or mothers religion of christ. And neilose christ chose Roman Catholic. He always said nothing but very warm things. He gave her a job in hollywood in the 1940s, answering his fan mail for him. Bought her and her Husband House , so i think most president s indicatork this is an of leadership most president s have had good, maybe sometimes tumultuous, but very strong relationships with their mother. Maybe even more so because we know Abraham Lincoln despised his father but love his mother loved his mother. Theirhello mother raises son is just as important if not more important than how father raises his son. Temperance, washington himself was a whiskey distiller, and quite successful at selling it. There is still a distillery at mount Vernon Property today. He was known to have a cocktail, though there was no record of him drinking too drunkenness. His brother samuel, there is evidence his brother had a drinking problem. Temperance movement in that era whatsoever. No evidence either that mary everett ever took what they called spirits, had a drink or a cocktail or anything like that. What were the other questions those two will be enough questions . Host those two will be enough. Lets talk to steve from webster, massachusetts. Good morning. Caller good morning. Mr. Shirley, in your research, im curious, did you ever come across anything that supports the cherry tree story, the myth. Guest no. Go ahead. Caller i also had a second question, i would like you to enlighten us a little bit on the whiskey rebellion, but i i am a student somewhat of rebellion. President washington to my understanding had a distain of backwoods people. If you could comment on that item, first the cherry tree, and i dont believe it. And also about the agrarian rebellions as well. Perhaps his mothers affect on president washington, and his regard toward agrarians. Guest thank you. What was the first one . Host the cherry tree. Guest there was an early biographer of George Washington, and he was the one who came up with the cherry tree story. There is no evidence the cherry tree story actually happened whatsoever, but it did indicate that one thing is true about that is that door to washington was a man of deep conviction, deep character, deep honesty, and deep integrity. The story, while probably not parable still a good about the type of boy George Washington was, the type of man in the type of man he grew into. It has its uses even though it is not true. And thes the rebellion whiskey rebellion the origins of the whiskey rebellion, after washington becomes president , hamilton goes to washington. Alexanderbolton hamilton goes to washington and says we need to pay off the various debts from the revolution in one way to bind the country together is to take on all of the debts to the national government. Washington agrees on this. Interestingly enough, its an indication of how early lobbyists were operating in washington, because the taxes were levied on the whiskey distilleries, and they were laid more heavily on the small distilleries and less on the bigger ones because the bigger distilleries hired lobbyists to lobby washington and